This will be a topic to discuss whta we actually know...i.e. Knowledge!

This is a philosophy post thus no real correct answer so everyone can post

My specialty is philosophy thus I hope to have a fun-engaged topic.

Alright the general purpose of the topic is to get your little pea brains thinking about whether or not we actualy know what we know...kinda confusing yes but intersting non the less.

The question is: How much do we really know and is our beliefs justified.

that is a very good question.... i am so confused ur making me think to much i cant call it i cannot give u a answer for this.... wuts ur answer?

that is a very good question.... i am so confused ur making me think to much i cant call it i cannot give u a answer for this.... wuts ur answer?

Meh...I guess I should have figured...actually I did! But, I was hoping that someone like DarkAztec would post...no offense horus...its just that when it comes to debates you really don't debate...but at least you reply! :p

Alright here is what I think...I think we know nothing for certain except for the fact that we have a consciousness i.e. a mind...everything we do not know for CERTAIN!

Lets say for instance that there is a scientist and this scientist decides to test human knowledge by removing the brain along with the sensory organs from someone into a vat of nutrients and a blood supply. Connecting the nerve endings to a super computer she begins to feed the brain with impulses that resemble stimuli that the brain would normally receive…

Break Time: This is where I will simpleize things for the stupid or non inclined to intelligence! ;)

Basically put a computer is tricking a brain into believing false claims about its surroundings…It is being feed with signals that tell the brain as well as show it a picture of the sky, itself, the grass, etc.

Kind of like a dream in which the brain dreams up a reality except the dream is being given by a super computer.

Alright back on track…With the computer receiving signals of what the brain was trying to do it would fake the resend signals with what the computer wants the brain to see.

Thus, if the brain imagines looking left the computer will look left and produce a fake image of grass in the surrounding area.

The question is could the brain distinguish reality from the fictional signals sent by the computer?

Most people would say NO…the brain would not be able to distinguish itself from having a body to not having a body…

Break Time: Alright now you are saying…“Of course it can tell…it only has to touch something right”…wrong…the computer inputs the sensation of touch into the brain thus replicating the sensation of touching and makes the brain think that it is touching something when in reality it cannot touch anything.

Still confused…lets just say the brain cannot tell the difference!

Alright back on track once again!

Lets say for instance that instead of the brain which could NOT distinguish itself from reality how would YOU do so if you were in the same situation. I.E. If you were actually a brain in a vat and were fed signals making you think that you were actually living with a body and a surrounding. Thus, if you cannot tell the difference between reality and non-reality you may indeed know absolutely nothing except for the fact that you have a mind.

Why do you have a mind?

You know you have a mind because doubting your mind is a state of consciousness in which you must have a mind to think! Hence, you prove yourself wrong when thinking that you don’t have a mind!

Break Time: Basically said: (for the idiots) WHAT IF YOU WERE IN THE MATRIX and could not distinguish between reality and fiction…does that mean that everything you know is a lie?

Hence the question I give to you is “Does that mean that everything you know is a lie”?

Also don't be afraid to post...there are inumerable ways to counter this claim!

I dunno if this is what you mean, but the brain can be fooled..
for example: If your leg got amputated, sometimes your brain thinks that your leg is itching, but its gone.. It's just the nerves who say that it itches..

confusing question.anyways maybe we all are connected to a computer and we don`t know anything about it.maybe it`s true or maybe it`s not.no one knows.we think we`re living a normal life and everything but maybe we`re just connected to a computer that fools our brain.um ok so nevamind i`m confused now .

So basically the Matrix, eh?
I see.

PART ONE==WHY NOT===============================
We cannot, because if we were, these computers or controllers would not show us this movie called "The Matrix".

PART TWO==EXCEPTIONS========================= ====
- The person who made the movie idea "The Matrix" is "The One", like Neo
- It is reverse psycology for the controllers to make us think it is fiction
- There is a bug in the computer program and they are trying to fix it, but they can't
- We are an experiment and they want to see what will happen if they present this information to us

PART THREE==RELIGOUS MATTERS=======================
Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Hindus will say that we are created by God/Allah.
Other religions will say that we were created, but left to live our own choices.

So what if we were programmed these "religions" so that we would think and react with these different ideas.

PART FOUR==CONCLUSION======================== ====

Either we are not in this "programmed reality"

OR

We are programmed to think against it.

PART ONE==WHY NOT===============================
We cannot, because if we were, these computers or controllers would not show us this movie called "The Matrix".

LOL...I think u misunderstood...I was talking about knowledge and what we can say we know 100% without doubt...and that is basically nothing!

Because of the fact we cannot tell the difference between sleeping and dreaming thus if you cant tell the difference when you are sleeping how can u be sure you are not dreaming now? Also *points to first post* read to understand more!

The matrix was only an analogy!

How much do we really know and is our beliefs justified.

...Alright, but this one isn't exactly a challenge.

We technically do not KNOW anything. Nothing in any way, shape, or form is proven, nor can it be. Why? It's called "The What If Clause." Now, for example, you give me gravity. We "know" that it exists and basically keeps the universe functioning. Then again, we do not know if it is actually something intrinsic to the universe or if extremely tiny people are literally moving everything in a certain grand design. Yes, it sounds horrendously stupid, but guess what? "What if."

Any single thing you say, do, or think can be second guessed as we know it. As you mentioned, we could be in the Matrix, for all we know. We could literally be the subconscious that makes up a much larger and grander being, one of such massive proportions to us that it is infathomable. We could literally be nothing more than an echo of a gigantic universal "What If."


...But that is taking the easy way out to answer this question.

Pychologically speaking, yes. Nothing is an illusion and everything is real. What we believe to be real IS real. I have studied people that have actually insisted that they are Caesar of the Roman Empire (yes, I know it is nutty, but there are people who live in such worlds of fantasy and are so wrapped up in their defense mechanisms that it becomes an actual psychosis). You cannot prove them wrong, either. All you can do is attempt to break down their wall and hope that another reality (hopefully the reality that you share as well) will come upon them. Real is what I think is real.

No, I am not saying that if I believe that if I believe I am Superman and I am shot with a bullet, it will not bounce off me. I am saying that I will honestly believe something until another set of "truth" hits me.


You want a REAL philosophical dillema to ponder? Try this one on for size:

The tragedy of human existence lies in the absence of any transcendence. ~ Jean-Paul Sartre

To tell you the truth, this subject is something I've always pondered about.

What if we are dreaming our whole lives... and we are still waiting to wake up?

Or in that case, I am waiting to wake up, and the people I am writing to right now are illusions...

So that means, when I wake up, I will discover that narutolounge.com is fake...and Naruto is fake...NOOOO!! I don't want to wake up.

I'm not quite sure if I'm in the right area, but anyhow, this is something I've always pondered.

Tell me, Kagami Kyoji, is this what you were talking about? Because if not, I really don't understand your topic.