ok, we are having this discussion between mods about whether or not the word 'idiot' is ban worthy, if it's 'offensive'. Well in math class I was reading the Columbus Dispatch and saw an article about Legistlators cleansing laws of 'bad' words. Which in this case is apparently idiot.

This is the link to the article:

http://www.dispatch.com/dispatch/content/local_news/stories/2007/03/28/badwords.ART_ART_03-28-07_A1_CK67AQG.html

Yeah I know it's only going on in over-sensitive Ohio, BUT I saw this as a good chance to talk to the members about whether or not the term 'idiot' is really ban worthy. A lot of Mods say it isn't, well apparently the people in Ohio do think it is. What do you all think?

Okay, idiot isnt that much of a bad word
you guys block alot of words for
no freakin reason, it gets kinda wierd
and i find no reaosn for it, but
its ya'lls forum you guy do what ya'll want

Idiot is about as offensive as stupid, moron, and dipshit. Not very offensive. If someone calls me any of that, I just flip'em the bird and go on my way.

I believe that if someone takes an offensive name (like "idiot") and adds a curse within the same post (like "fuckin idiot"), then it should be considered a flame. Saying "idiot" alone is simply not enough to be massive banned for.

Well, Ninja48 just stole my post. :p

Idiot shouldn't be a ban unless accompanied by a "bad word," but if a person is repeatedly calling someone an idiot then it should be a ban (for instance constantly PMing them saying "You idiot!" and constantly harassing them).

o_O I'm sorry but calling someone an idiot shouldn't be a bannable offense. If it's any kind of issue at all here, then simply censor the word. Some people may think that's kind of stupid, but then so is banning someone for calling someone else an idiot.

Mods vs People of Ohio! =O Ahem, anyways as I've said before words like "idiot" or "dummy" should not be ban worthy. We need to bring back the minor and major flame rules, minor gets and infraction and major gets a ban. I thought Shino was going to do this a while back, just never got around to it I suppose. You should have added a poll. =/

I also kind of think you guys shouldn't be so strict with certain rules. Not hand out infractions so easily. I know most infractions given out are small, but why not use verbal warnings at first, and if the offense is repeated a few more times, then give out an infraction. And not a small 2 point infraction either.

Idiot and dummy are like words that can allow you to barely get under the flame rule to save your own @ss. I think it surpose to be used to insult someone for it but a warning should be gived out. For example:

Your such a idiot athoritative figure.......

I consider that a insult to someone but words like retard are even more unacceptable to me.

Idiot is about as offensive as stupid, moron, and dipshit. Not very offensive. If someone calls me any of that, I just flip'em the bird and go on my way.

*claps hands* i gladly agree with the flipping people
the bird XD

Formal state laws really shouldn't use terms like "idiot" in them. Not necessarly because it's offensive, but because it's pretty informal.

And honestly, I don't see how calling someone an idiot wouldn't be a flame. I'm under the assumption that a direct insult is a flame, right? How can you directly call someone an idiot in most situations without meaning it as an insult? It's the same as calling someone stupid, and I don't know about you guys, but I think being stupid is probably one of the worst things you can be. I'd rather be fat or goth than stupid. Stupid people really suck.


(Of course, if it's clearly meant to be a joke you shouldn't punish someone over it. You have to look at the words in the context they're said in. Not that stupid "a flame is a flame" shit...which doesn't even make sense, really... Just how I feel though. >.>) Not that it matters, with how the rules are enforced here, you can indirectly imply someone is a total idiot and got off scott-free (Unless some of the mods hate you... >.<;; ). So unless you're an idiot or you just don't care, it's kind of hard to get hit for flamming anyway.

I consider a flame an insult with ferocity behind it. Otherwise, they'd call it "blowing hot steam" or something, rather than a "flaming." If you know what I'm getting at.

Well if a member call another member an idiot then that's an infraction for insulting other members. It wouldn't be bad worthy; just infraction worthy.

Ehh, that's all I think of it. >>

You should have added a poll. =/

.......you were just as capable as I was -.-;;; lazy >.>

My opinion still stands on the simple fact that, yes, idiot is a ban. But, I also agree that Shino needs to get his ass in gear and set up that rule for minor and major flames, but then you have to ask yourself. Where's the line for what's minor and what's major?

You're an idiot = minor??
You're a fucktard = major???

so let me get this straight, they basically mean the same thing but because 'fuck' is in it there it automatically makes it major? What about calling someone a baka too? Or a perv? Ya know, I've called a few people pervy and they literally freaked out on me for it.

That's why I made the title be "offensive or overly sensitive?" Because like you have to know, there's going to be some baby out there who all their life was called stupid or looked down upon then they come on here and get the same treatment and the only thing that happens is a slap on the wrist? >.<;

Is it stupid to call someone stupid and get a 7 day ban for it? Most definetly. But, isn't it still an insult that can easily just be taken as if I were to call someone a 'major' flame?

idiot...no ban/warning or whatnont

*insert curseword herer*idion- ban/major warning...

now alot of the members on here are little kids who havnt hit pubirty yet..im saying...if you cant be mature in a post..then dont post at all....

I agree about the part about splitting hairs as to 'what words are more offensive as others.' That shouldn't matter, it's like what Ninja48 was saying, what should matter is the context they're said in.

If the poster's intention was malicious, then it should be a punishable offence regardless of what words he/she uses.

If the guy's just joking around, then let it slide.

Examples:

If someone were to say something like:
"U dummy-butt, Naruto iz teh best ninjer evar! If u dont think so tahn u r a sup3r big dum-dum head!!11 ur probaby fat and eat lotz of durittos and smell reley stinky!!" as a serious responce to someone's view on anime characters or whatever, then ban the guy. Sure, it's not really offensive (Because you'd have to be a moron or a pussy to get offended by the opinion of someone who's clearly an idiot), but his intentions were clearly malicious. Don't cut the guy slack just because he's an idiot who sucks at insulting someone, you know?

Likewise, if a conversation goes down like this:

Poster 1: "I can't wait to watch the new Bleach episode tomorrow!"
Poster 2 (Who is chummy with Poster 1): "lol, you dumbass, that came out yesterday XD"
Poster 1: "Oh, shit, whoops. I'm an idiot. ^^;;"

Then Poster 2's intention wasn't to intentionally insult the dude. He's just joking around. He wasn't intentionally trying to make the other kid cry or anything.

This way you don't have to worry about over-sensitive crybabies getting offended over any little thing (Because it doesn't matter if people get offended, only if the person was cleary trying to maliciously insult them). The only real downside of doing it that way would be that mods would have to read through the thread and determain the poster-in-question's motives instead of just seeing the word "Dumbass" or "fucktard" or whatever and clicking the ban button. You'd also have to give people the benifit of the doubt in a lot of cases. You'd still be able to ban the guys who were clearly just trying to be dickheads and people who lost their cool though.

And all this should apply to direct insults towards a person, of course. Not to that indirect implying of another poster's stupidity. No one ever does that anyway. I'm not even kidding around, that's a damn good rule. Don't get rid of that. I don't want to have to make a stupid fan-fic thinger. ; ;

^Agree.

No matter what, though, the mods will have to use their judgement. You can't just ban because something is simply an insult because you still have to use judgement to determine whether or not something is an insult in the first place.

On that note:

Shino says:
it is bannable, but yes there should be a major/minor flame infraction
Shino says:
there wont be a set guide line for which is what
Shino says:
it'll be dealt with on a case by case basis with whichever mod handles it
Shino says:
but they have to atleast be similar
Shino says:
and not one mod gives a minor one for "your a fucking asshole" while another gives a major for "your pee pee is so small"

Of course, no matter what we say Shino's word is law but I figured I'd just throw that out there for you. I think this is a nice discussion that really gets the members involved, I really didn't think I'd get a lot of people saying idiot is a good ban @.@.

^Yeah, that's what I meant. I thought some people in this thread were implying that certain words should equal auto-ban (Like the guy above me). That's what I was addressing with that part. I guess it came off sounding like I thought the mods were mostly idiots or something, now that I reread that. Whoops, didn't mean it that way, my bad. ^^;

Edit: ^ thinger was for Ninja's post. I'm slow. ; ;

I also kind of think you guys shouldn't be so strict with certain rules. Not hand out infractions so easily. I know most infractions given out are small, but why not use verbal warnings at first, and if the offense is repeated a few more times, then give out an infraction. And not a small 2 point infraction either.
infractions expire so...and usually we do add a little comment in regards to the infraction given


^Agree.

No matter what, though, the mods will have to use their judgement. You can't just ban because something is simply an insult because you still have to use judgement to determine whether or not something is an insult in the first place.
that is basically what shino told me i asked him about what a flame really is defined as here on NL...the word or phrase in question would have to be determined by the mod and the context that it was said in...not simply by a single post >.>...

I think it should get you in trouble since it is still a insult and should be punished just like the people who say flaming through a rep doesn't count.

I'm just going to use the person above me as an example.

Oakgyrl510, your such a idiot........

I would punish someone over something like that because the word idiot is used in that context to insult someone else or flame. It should be given a warning and then a 1 day ban if it happens again.

I agree with Ninja48 on the "fuckin idiot" thing.... Because just saying idiot alone doesn't really count as a flame, in my opinion.

I also agree with 6n6 with the minor/major flames.... because perhaps "idiot" should only get a small infraction... or maybe just a warning.

It also depends on how the word is used. If they sound like they're joking, then it shouldn't count. But if it's used in an argument and it truly does sound like they're calling them stupid as a flame, then perhaps it should count as some sort of... problem? It's not neccessarily a flame, but they're kinda "disrupting the peace" when they start an argument and then start flying off names.

well what bothers me most about your statement Toshi is that how do you know what a joke is? It's text you can't determine mood settings or emphasizes.

"OMFG! lolz lilly229, you're such a bitch and a dried up whore lol. nah just messing with you, you're cool."

or

"Lol, Lily, you're such a bitch. Kididng though."

ummm which one was which exactly? o.o;

^Both of those will get a minor thingy, if I were to judge. If you were to report to an admin and say "oh, well I didn't take any offense," then the minor infraction will be removed.

A flame is something like "you're really stupid, you know that? I hope you die or something." Because there's malicious intent there. If you add "jk" at the end (or if there's absolutely nothing in the thread that may ensure that the post was a joke), then no one was out to put down anyone.

What you need to consider when considering whether or not something is a flame is "did the poster mean to insult another member?" and/or "was the poster being 100% serious?"

well what bothers me most about your statement Toshi is that how do you know what a joke is? It's text you can't determine mood settings or emphasizes.

"OMFG! lolz lilly229, you're such a bitch and a dried up whore lol. nah just messing with you, you're cool."

or

"Lol, Lily, you're such a bitch. Kididng though."

ummm which one was which exactly? o.o;

Of course you would never be able to tell on a forum; seeing that we wouldn't know their pitch of voice, their attitude of speaking, and their emotions to indicate whether or not they were speaking truth as an insult or they were just joking.

Like I said in my earlier post about the situation, that must also be taken into account. If everyone is being silly and someone says, "you're such an idiot" (with maybe a smiley...?), then we would know they were joking; ... mainly because of the smiley. But if it were a situation where a noob was being... well, a noob; and someone said, "you're such an idiot." then you would be able to tell it was a direct insult.
Though when you put it out like this, it seems only a little easier to see the difference; it sometimes isn't that easy to tell whether or not their joking.

In your example where you used the words "bitch" and "whore", it seems very offensive, and we automatically take it as a flame, no matter joking or not. But because of this generation, and the world and it's state that it is in now, we use the words idiot on a daily basis, (well, maybe not ohio.) and not many people are bothered by this word anymore. In real life, someone calls you an idiot, you won't feel as offended as opposed to when someone calls you a bitch or whore.
This also brings the whole "minor" flame thing back into topic. Becauser perhaps it would be best to have a different infraction level for different flame levels. Because I think alot of people agree that "idiot" isn't as bad as "dumb-ass" or "bitch." That even though they are joking, it shouldn't really matter.
Because we can never actually tell whether or not their joking; the minor infraction should be put into play rather than a ban.

i think that the word isn't that banworthy, it's just how you use it

i dont think "idiot" is really offensive

hmm..its not that much offensive. there are a lot of more offensive words out there! actually, its too offensive i cant put it here. they're exagerrating too much.

I don't see a reason to ban people for calling other people idiot. Just give them a warning or possibly a one-point infraction if they repeat the offense. It's not really a big deal, I remember people saying "idiot" when I was still in fifth grade, and I laughed them all off. I find myself agreeing with most of the people here saying that *insert curse word here* idiot should be a bannable offense, because even without the idiot it's still bannable.

I think some leniency should be had with certain rules here. =\

well no it's not offfensive and it's not even bad either,
becasue well it's just not cause you could say to your grandma and she probably would'nt even care, you know>.<

Idiot is not that offensive if your not the one who's been told to. Say it to anyone's face and it will be as bad as any other flame taunts.

to think about it an idiot is a happy person,the more things u know the less happier u are(so many smart ppl died alone and many where severly depressed)so practically speaking calling some1 idiot u call him a happy person.An idiot can never find out he is stupid cause in order to understand u are an idiot u have to be smart...So even if u call a person idiot u are equally stupid for not finding out your own stupidness....Bottomline?The word idiot isn't worthy of a ban...It equally offens the person that said it...

why is idiot bad? Unless you're overly sensitive and take every little offense as a personal insult, it isn't anything bad. Idiot can be a funny thing that one friend says to another. Or it can be meant in a harsh way. Either way, idiot is just something simple. No Ban please.

oh please...i live in ohio and i don't think "idiot" is bad....anywayz, i use it a lot:D

Though personally I believe that a lot of people are tolerant and are understanding when these words such as idiot are directed towards them, there are others who just won't accept the fact that an insult, no matter how it was said, think of it as a flame. I don't condone this, but if this forum is going to have rules, then might as well stand by them. But of course, it's the mod's final word anyway.

Well if a member call another member an idiot then that's an infraction for insulting other members. It wouldn't be bad worthy; just infraction worthy.

Ehh, that's all I think of it. >>

i agree with GG's idea...