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liondemon
05-29-2009, 08:38 PM
Jiraiya would never kill his future granddaughter in law. Never!

superninja
05-29-2009, 08:41 PM
Jiraiya would never kill his future granddaughter in law. Never!

Ok, she would be KO. I think Neji and that other guy are fast enough to avoid attacks from base Jiraiya but Hinata is not.

TheSixthHokage
05-30-2009, 12:46 AM
Base Jiraya vs Team Hyuga ( Hiashi, Hinata and Neji ).

Location: Chunin arena
restrictions: No summons for Jiraya or HM. Anything else is green lighted.
State of mind: Blood lusted
Starting distance: 10 m

Jiraiya seems to be adequate in taijutsu but he'd focus overwhelmingly on mid- to long-range ninjutsu to counter Team Hyuuga but with three of them and Kaiten, I cannot seem him winning this as great as he is, summons and Sage Mode are too critical to his combat style. I would see at least 1-2 of his opponents killed though.

Dagoro
05-30-2009, 12:58 AM
Jiraya still wins, hair needle barrage and Swamp of the underworld are great counters to taijutsu.

LonelyNinja
05-30-2009, 01:03 AM
Haven't thought about Naruto in a "What if?" combat situation in forever, but I had this strange idea. Jiraiya uses toad oil in combination with his fire attacks, so if he used oil first the Hyuugas would either evade or use Kaiten. Either way there's oil everywhere, then he just lights it all on fire. Don't know how any of the Hyuugas could counter against a fuckin' fryer, so there's more for Jiraiya's victory.

TheSixthHokage
05-30-2009, 01:04 AM
Jiraya still wins, hair needle barrage and Swamp of the underworld are great counters to taijutsu.

Damn it man, you are making a good point, plus...frog stomach, not sure how well it works outside but still. I'd still think that 3 of them would be too much though... Neji and Hinata would keep him on his toes while Hiashi would hit him from behind or on his side.

Myth
05-30-2009, 02:31 AM
hell swamp n the fight is over... he can stretch it as far as he wants and make as deep as he wants... needle gaurdin for defense lions mane for long range ablity...

poolangya
05-30-2009, 04:41 AM
3 taijutsu users expert in melee combat against a base jiraiya who still has tons of jutsus that are mid to long range. i don't see the hyugas winning at all. Jiraiya has this 7-3, 1 chance per hyuga.Jman wins.

Dagoro
05-30-2009, 12:21 PM
Orochimaru vs Team Hyuga ( Hinata, Hiashi and Neji ).

Location: Where Oro and th 3rd fought
Restrictions: No edo tensei or summoning for Oro, other snake techs are ok.
State of mind: Blood lusted
Starting distance: 10m

Myth
05-30-2009, 01:37 PM
Orochimaru vs Team Hyuga ( Hinata, Hiashi and Neji ).

Location: Where Oro and th 3rd fought
Restrictions: No edo tensei or summoning for Oro, other snake techs are ok.
State of mind: Blood lusted
Starting distance: 10m

i haven't seen oro use anything like jiriaya in terms of long range super jutsu or 1 hit kill moves like swamp nd frog stomach but he'd still win based on him having his replacements.. all their attacks are useless cause he can have his snakes take the damage.. nd he can always use that hydra technique he used against itachi WHICH ISN'T A SUMMON... but a snake jutsu s ranked..

TheSixthHokage
05-30-2009, 03:09 PM
Orochimaru vs Team Hyuga ( Hinata, Hiashi and Neji ).

Location: Where Oro and th 3rd fought
Restrictions: No edo tensei or summoning for Oro, other snake techs are ok.
State of mind: Blood lusted
Starting distance: 10m

I'd probably give this to Orochimaru, he is so elusive and is such a demon, even without summons or edo tensei (remember when he fought Naruto as the Four-Tails?).

lamps123
05-30-2009, 03:23 PM
I'd probably give this to Orochimaru, he is so elusive and is such a demon, even without summons or edo tensei (remember when he fought Naruto as the Four-Tails?).
and ran away lol

TheSixthHokage
05-30-2009, 03:25 PM
and ran away lol

True, but he fought off the 4-tails to allow himself to get away. I'd say it was even, but if Naruto went 6-tails, Orochimaru would be dead.

lamps123
05-30-2009, 03:34 PM
True, but he fought off the 4-tails to allow himself to get away. I'd say it was even, but if Naruto went 6-tails, Orochimaru would be dead.
if he continued he could have died even in the 4tails state.lol

Dagoro
05-30-2009, 03:39 PM
Oro stomps the Hyuga team ( who doesn't now and days lol ). Oro put up a good effort against Kn4 Naruto, even though he was at the end of his hope.

Nexus
05-30-2009, 04:01 PM
Orochimaru. Edo Tensei >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Team Hyuga

Xicidal
05-31-2009, 02:10 AM
Orochimaru. Edo Tensei >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Team Hyuga

no edo tensei is being used.
I give it the Hyuga especial if Orchu isn't aware there is three from the begin.

3 vs 1 one.

superninja
05-31-2009, 05:11 PM
Oro without summons and edo tensei vs Hinata, Neji and Hiashi

I would give the victory to Orochimaru, he is hard to kill. The question is what would the Hyugas see with their byakugan? Because Oro's body is not normal so I wonder if the blocking the chakra points would work on Oro.

Servo
05-31-2009, 05:39 PM
Oro without summons and edo tensei vs Hinata, Neji and Hiashi

I would give the victory to Orochimaru, he is hard to kill. The question is what would the Hyugas see with their byakugan? Because Oro's body is not normal so I wonder if the blocking the chakra points would work on Oro.

I will give that to Oro, the guy is damn hard to kill.

Vengeance
06-01-2009, 09:28 AM
Base Jiraya vs Team Hyuga ( Hiashi, Hinata and Neji ).

Location: Chunin arena
restrictions: No summons for Jiraya or HM. Anything else is green lighted.
State of mind: Blood lusted
Starting distance: 10 m
Jiraiya is a leaf shinobi & is well aware of what Hyuuga’s are capable of. Jiraiya takes this easily with one jutsu like others have said. Underworld swamp or whatever could be used to completely transform the chunin colosseum into a swamp. All the Hyuuga would sink underground & die because of a lack of oxygen. Let’s also not forget that a rasengan would be enough to stop a Hyuuga Kaiten spin. Jiraiya also has a vast amount of ninjutsu at his disposal & in base form is still extremely strong & fast.
Orochimaru vs Team Hyuga ( Hinata, Hiashi and Neji ).

Location: Where Oro and th 3rd fought
Restrictions: No edo tensei or summoning for Oro, other snake techs are ok.
State of mind: Blood lusted
Starting distance: 10m
Again Orochimaru is a leaf shinobi & is well aware of what Hyuuga’s are capable of. Orochimaru has Fuuton in the form of powerful wind gust & Doton in the form of Zetsu like earth travel. This not only gives him a ranged advantage but a speed advantage as well. If all else fails Orochimaru could simply take over Hiashi's body & wipe out who's ever left if Neji & Hinata actually manage to stay alive for that long. However I doubt this would even be necessary with his experience, genjutsu ability, seal knowledge, ninjutsu/kinjutsu ability, snake form, & sword of Kusanagi. Orochimaru takes this though not as easily as Jiraiya would.

Edit: Almost forgot..... Hyuuga's suck balls!!!

MikeyM1979
06-01-2009, 01:06 PM
Base Jiraiya vs 3 Hyuugas, and Orochimaru vs 3 Hyuugas? o_O We know more about Jiraiya and Orochimaru than we do of Hiashi. Hinata sucks, and Neji, while he is a Jounin and pretty skilled in taijutsu, cannot hold his own against the two Sannin, even with Hiashi and Hinata. Sannin stomp.

Wolverine
06-02-2009, 06:43 AM
Hyuga's have no ranged attacks which is another serious drawback against Jman and Oro. I don't see them winning this one.

superninja
06-02-2009, 02:07 PM
Hyuga's have no ranged attacks which is another serious drawback against Jman and Oro. I don't see them winning this one.

Yes, but Hyugas have an excellent defense against range attacks by creating that spinning whirlwind. Hinata hasn't shown that ability so far, but Neji and Hiashi have it. Anyway, if the Hyugas were all excellent taijutsu masters with the ability to dodge like Neji probably is, then I would give the victory to them, but Hiashi and Hinata are prob weaker than Neji, so that's it.

Ok, now for the ultimate fight, Ino vs Akamaru

poolangya
06-02-2009, 06:00 PM
ino vs akamaru
this is hard.
ino has what, mind transfer and medic abilities.akamaru?well he can bark,bite,or piss on ino.without kiba he is pretty much useless.ino technically has no offensive jutsu, and few offensive skills,but i assume she can use the kunai.but akamaru is fast so i doubt if ino can catch akamaru with a kunai or a kick to the groin.. i give the advantage to ino because of her jutsu, the mind transfer technique. since akamaru's offensive capability is higher than ino, she can mind transfer herself to akamaru, hence akamaru will end up inside her body.her offensive capability gets higher, then attacks her enemy and bites the feet and legs,arms and torso, then finally bites the head. having injured fatally the opponent, she can now release the jutsu. but wait, she will realize that she was actually biting herself during the battle. thus because of blood loss due to lots of dog bites and possibly rabies, ino dies. akamaru wins.

superninja
06-02-2009, 06:27 PM
The question is how smart Akamaru is. I don't know, it seems he can talk to Kiba so he has some intelligence. Ino could catch Akamaru with her mind transfer jutsu since Akamaru would charge at her to bite her. So if Ino misses Akamaru wins and if Ino succeeds then she would win since she would control Akamaru. But, Akamaru has a long range attack, he can piss on her thus making Ino blind (I am sadly not making this up). I give the chances Akamaru 7 - Ino 3

liondemon
06-02-2009, 09:45 PM
This thread gave me a thought. Kishi could make a hella lot of money and gain more Naruto notoriety by giving the outlines to how he wants these VS. to play out, and allowing the animators to animate or draw for u manga lovers, these VS. scenarios to prove to everyone who would win in an all out fight in his story. Sometimes all it takes is to catch something on tv, manga,anime during a fight scene and u are hooked. otherwise, u might not stay to watch or really see what "this" is about. Maybe Kishi could authorize the "top 10 most wanted matchups" and workem into the databooks. Just crossed my mind and thought i would post it is all. Just thinking out loud really. Hope i didnt disturb anyone.

I rarely post here in VS. because most people believe what they want to believe regardless the "manga facts" u are posting. It's like me growing up with a best friend and both our farhters were talented street fighters and so are we, and i say to him, I bet my daddy can beat your daddy. Regardless what he or she say, u know and gon try to prove your "daddy" gon win, even if u begin to start doubting him. We know various things about many of the VS. but only the man telling the story can really say if it hasnt happened or been told. I bet 100 dollaz that a base Orochumaru beats the shit out of a base Jiraiya, but still a fairly equal match. And that a Base Neji beats the shit out of base Naruto but still loses in the end, and Neji does the cocky Sasuke even worse than Rock Lee did Sasuke in the beginning of their "match". Still Sasuke wins. All base, toe to toe, chunnin exam arena, people in the stands. I bet 100 non monopoly dollars. Paypal to u right now because there is nothing u can tell me or most others, anything other than what we already believe. Bet it. No point disagreeing with me using "manga fact" or common sense because I got "manga fact" too and i dont have any "common sense", cleary by this post. I have a man-crush on Orochumaru and Neji and those BONDS that bind us together means that i will always have faith in them and believe in them no matter what anyone says but Kishi, and I still may disagree with him then.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-02-2009, 09:51 PM
Gai Vs sasuke, no ninjutsu or genjutsu, just one badass high speed taijutsu fight?

TheSixthHokage
06-02-2009, 10:44 PM
Gai Vs sasuke, no ninjutsu or genjutsu, just one badass high speed taijutsu fight?

Gai... Sasuke has speed and good taijutsu but he's stepping in Maito's area of mastery... particularly with Gai's gates.

Myth
06-02-2009, 10:46 PM
Gai without gates would kill him, he's faster and stronger physically wise.

Kreglze
06-02-2009, 10:58 PM
Gai wins, Sasuke needs his ninjutsu to be any chance, straight taijutsu Gai obliterates him in everyway possible, Gates, Lotus, Dynamic Entry. All Sasuke has as far as taijutsu abilities is well Lions Barage.

Anyway a little fight I have been pondering.

Kiba, Shino, Hinata V Ino, Choji, Shikamaru.

I would like the filler in the anime if they need to have any just be animated fights between 2 characters for a couple of episodes each, it would really pass the time, between crap anime. Though the chances of that happening would be slim/nil.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-02-2009, 11:00 PM
Gai without gates would kill him, he's faster and stronger physically wise.

No, without gates I dont see Gai winning. But even though sasuke has the SG to read Gais movement, six gates Gai is too fast for even him probably to react so Gai would probably win unless sasuke could find a way to force Gai to watse his forbiden lotus.

TheSixthHokage
06-03-2009, 12:02 AM
Kiba, Shino, Hinata V Ino, Choji, Shikamaru

Nice match-up.

Kiba, particularly when he merges with Akamaru, has high power capabilities as does Choji, so I could see these two balancing each other out.

Ino only has a mind control jutsu, while Hinata has Byakugan and the Gentle Fist, meaning Hinata would slap her around.

Shikamaru has shadow ninjutsu and good leadership but Shino is intelligent himself and his bugs are far more versatile.

I gotta give this totally to Kurenai's team.

Vengeance
06-03-2009, 12:28 AM
Gai Vs sasuke, no ninjutsu or genjutsu, just one badass high speed taijutsu fight?
Ummm ok.... Sasuke loses badly.

Kiba, Shino, Hinata V Ino, Choji, Shikamaru
Shino can take all 3 out he's just that good.... Shino's bugs can take down a shinobi in a manner of seconds once they make connect. As we saw with Madara there is no avoiding Shino's swarm.

Shikamaru's shadow is useless against him sense his bugs eat chakra. Shikamaru would be there to strategize while using kunai & paper bombs.

Ino sucks enough said.

Chouji is just a huge arse target.

TheSixthHokage
06-03-2009, 12:51 AM
I am really starting to think KYF reads the manga and then decides which character is strongest based on how much he likes them....

Alright,

Kisame versus Killer Bee!

Vengeance
06-03-2009, 01:03 AM
I am really starting to think KYF reads the manga and then decides which character is strongest based on how much he likes them....

Alright,

Kisame versus Killer Bee!
Kisame all the fucking way. His sword can eat chakra & potentially stop KB from maintaining any type of tailed state. Plus he's extremely strong & fast while having a reach advantage. Using Raiton against a suiton user is a dumb thing to do. Dare I say it Kisame is the top dog of the 7 Swordsmen of the myst & is better than fucking Sasuke. Madara knows what went down with Sasuke yet is still willing to send Kisame. Kisame is being set up as someone extremely powerful. I said it before this guys role in the manga is more important than your average Akatsuki. He's a rival of Gai, target of Suigetsu, & is now being set up to fight KB. In the actual manga KB may get away due to rescue plot by cloud ninja. In a fair one vs one Kisame takes this.

TheSixthHokage
06-03-2009, 01:09 AM
Kisame all the fucking way. His sword can eat chakra & potentially stop KB from maintaining any type of tailed state. Plus he's extremely strong & fast while having a reach advantage. Using Raiton against a suiton user is a dumb thing to do. Dare I say it Kisame is the top dog of the 7 Swordsmen of the myst & is better than fucking Sasuke. Madara knows what went down with Sasuke yet is still willing to send Kisame. Kisame is being set up as someone extremely powerful. I said it before this guys role in the manga is more important than your average Akatsuki. He's a rival of Gai, target of Suigetsu, & is now being set up to fight KB. In the actual manga KB may get away due to rescue plot by cloud ninja. In a fair one vs one Kisame takes this.

I agree, the problem with most Jinkuurichi (besides Naruto) seems to be that they rely too much on their ability to overwhelm based on chakra superiority, while Kisame was said, I believe, to have the largest chakra base of anyone in Akatsuki. So, we have Itachi's chakra-monster of a partner versus Kirabi, who took on Sasuke's platoon and won, but seems to be rather dependent on the 8-tails. I expect Killer Bee survives because of Team Samui so that he can teach Naruto how to control the Kyuubi.

Dagoro
06-03-2009, 01:14 AM
I doubt Kisame will get taken out, he'll be saved for someone else.

TheSixthHokage
06-03-2009, 01:15 AM
I doubt Kisame will get taken out, he'll be saved for someone else.

Suigetsu in the inevitable betrayal of 'Taka'? I wonder if Madara will be bed-ridden and near dead... :P

Dagoro
06-03-2009, 01:18 AM
Im thinking Gai and his team, rematch and all. Or Naruto, who knows lol. But having him die to a new character just like that would be strange.

TheSixthHokage
06-03-2009, 01:30 AM
Im thinking Gai and his team, rematch and all. Or Naruto, who knows lol. But having him die to a new character just like that would be strange.

It was foreshadowed and 'Taka'is obviously going to backstab Madara.

Myth
06-03-2009, 01:34 AM
it makes no sense for a water user to win against a lighting element user, KB can just electrocute kisame, he's not as fast as sasuke nd doesn't have his sharingan the sword dance should be enough to kill kisame...

Vengeance
06-03-2009, 01:40 AM
it makes no sense for a water user to win against a lighting element user, KB can just electrocute kisame, he's not as fast as sasuke nd doesn't have his sharingan the sword dance should be enough to kill kisame...
You throw water on a lightning user while they're charging electricity & they electrify themselves. Put an electric object into water while you're standing on it & you electrocute yourself. Sorry myth but suiton pawnz raiton. Kisame is also extremely fast when in water. In terms of swordsmanship Kisame has the reach advantage which makes KBs acrobatics far less useful. If you have one person holding a bunch of stake knives while the other is holding a katana, the one with the katana would win due to the superior reach.

Myth
06-03-2009, 02:07 AM
You throw water on a lightning user while they're charging electricity & they electrify themselves. Put an electric object into water while you're standing on it & you electrocute yourself. Sorry myth but suiton pawnz raiton. Kisame is also extremely fast when in water. In terms of swordsmanship Kisame has the reach advantage which makes KBs acrobatics far less useful. If you have one person holding a bunch of stake knives while the other is holding a katana, the one with the katana would win due to the superior reach.

but if that person cannot see the attack he would be hit let's face it if the sharingan couldn't predict the movements kisame shouldn't either.. in terms of swordsmanship kisame swings a bigger sword but his skills with it as shown were mediocre at best he just jams the the thing on u...

My bet is he would prob win but only due to him being more experienced in catching jinchuriki.

poolangya
06-03-2009, 02:26 AM
raiton>suiton depends on how it was used, also the other way around.
swordsmanship-wise, kisame has the reach, but killerbee has the advantage of multiple attacks.
but whoever wins the Kisame vs Killerbee fight, im sure the battle scenes would be made of pure awesome.

TheSixthHokage
06-03-2009, 12:12 PM
Sasori and Hidan versus Gaara and Kakashi?

MikeyM1979
06-03-2009, 01:10 PM
I think Kisame vs KB is pointless right now, as we've seen, probably most of what KB can do, while we can't say the same for Kisame.

Sasori & Hidan vs Kakashi & Gaara? This is probably gonna play out a lot like the fights they've already been in. Hidan will most likely go after Kakashi. We've seen Hidan can handle Kakashi's speed and taijutsu. Hell, he's a tank. Nothing Kakashi has will kill Hidan out right, he can only incapacitate Hidan. Kakashi will have no choice but to rely on Kamui, and the problem is Kakashi is extremely hesitant to use that. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but Kakashi doesn't know what Hidan can do, right? I recall them fighting in taijutsu, but I don't remember the details of that fight between them. If Kakashi doesn't know, he's fucked. If he does, he has better chances. As for the other two, Sasori really needs to get Gaara poisoned, and fast. He needs to ditch his first shell and go straight into his real form and bust out the Kazekage, because Gaara will bury and crush Sasori's puppet ass.

Vengeance
06-03-2009, 03:08 PM
Kakashi knows what Hidan can do because of Shikamaru. Come on Mikey you're smarter than that. Why wouldn't Shika tell everyone what Hidan could do when they went on a mission involving Hidan & Kakazu?

superninja
06-03-2009, 03:13 PM
Sasori and Hidan vs Gara and Kakashi

I give the fight to Gara and Kakashi. Gara is extremely long range fighter with the sand ultimate defense, he isn't getting touched by Sasori's needles or Hidan's scythe. Kakashi knowing that will stick close to Gara who might provide protection against Hidan or puppets to Kakashi. The only thing Sasori can do to pierce through the ultimate defense is to use the kazekage puppet and control the iron sand. Kakashi knowing that might try kamui on that puppet, but kamui on a puppet might not work very good, since puppets are made of many parts that can be reassembled. Kakashi might be able to see the chakra strings coz of sharingan, if so he would see they all come from Sasori's heart. Kamui the heart.

Dagoro
06-03-2009, 03:18 PM
Need to be more specific when making vs scenarios.

Location
Knowledge

That pretty much would decide who wins this one.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-03-2009, 03:19 PM
Raiton>Suiton all day! KB already showed that raiton electricution is useless against a Raiton user when he brushed off sasukes chidori electricution like it was nothing. And kakashi absorbed Kakuzus Raiton attack so raiton attacks on raiton users just dont work clearly.

Sasori and Hidan vs Gaara and kakashi?

Kakashi already showed hidans no match for him even in close combat. So, after kakashi removes hidan head and blows up his body with explosive kunai he can go help Gaara because hes going to need it.

Kakashi and Gaara vs sasori?

Gaara can attack sasori while kakashi observes and plans a strategy to take him out. Now, once kakashi figures out sasoris secret life tube then its only a metter of time before kakashi chidoris that thing killing sasori.

So, Gaara uses his sand to attack and defend forcing sasori to reveal secrets and such while kakashi hides then use KBs to fight and gather more info. After learning of sasoris life tube kakashi uses Gaara and a KB as a decoy to atack sasori while the real kakashi sneak attacks the life tube from behind. gaara and kakashi win!

TheSixthHokage
06-03-2009, 03:23 PM
No limitations on skills; Kakashi has knowledge of Hidan;

Location = Open clearing, no obstacles;

Dagoro
06-03-2009, 03:25 PM
Location means everything in this scenario because of Gaara. In the desert hes nearly untouchable since there is so much sand around for him to use.

everywhere else, oh well Ironsand would dominate.

MikeyM1979
06-03-2009, 04:23 PM
Kakashi knows what Hidan can do because of Shikamaru. Come on Mikey you're smarter than that. Why wouldn't Shika tell everyone what Hidan could do when they went on a mission involving Hidan & Kakazu?
I am. And in case you missed it, I did say I forgot the details of that fight. :p

Oh, and new fight! =o

Gai, Kakashi, and Asuma vs Jiraiya, Orochimaru, and Tsunade. Jonoha's top Jounins vs Konoha's Sannins. I'm obviously going to handicap the Sannins, as they're legendary for a reason, while the others, not so much.

They all fight as IC as possible.

Team-J
Kakashi has everything he's ever shown in the manga. Only, he's not so hesitant to use Kamui. Gai also has everything he's shown, and won't be so hesitant on using the gates. Asuma can use everything he's shown. Also, Kakashi can use his nin dogs in similar ways he used against Zabuza.

Team-S
Orochimaru gets to use everything he's shown, excluding Edo Tensei, Manda, and Hydra form. Also, he can only spit out his body a maximum of three times. After that, he drops dead and is out of the fight. He has a healthy body to use for this fight, and is IC in his fighting style, but will work with the other two. One final thing. Orochimaru can spit his body out 3 times, max. But he has no regeneration. Meaning, if somehow, Kakashi slices Orochimaru's arm off using Raikiri, similar to how he sliced some of Kakuzu's tentacles off, then Orochimaru is simply going to have to fight armless. Unless he chooses to spit a body out.

Jiraiya can use everything he's shown, except for HM, and Gamabunta. He fights in his own style. Tsunade gets to use everything she's shown. Now, she gets to use Katsuya. But only for the sake of spitting acid around. No healing. She can use Genesis Rebirth once, obviously. I'm not handicapping her too much since she's the weakest of the Sannin.

The location of the fight takes place in Konoha itself.

Vengeance
06-03-2009, 05:18 PM
Jiraiya can't summon Bunta but can still summon Ken & Hiro??? They're all the same size the only real difference is the weapons & Bunta's suiton. Tsunade gets to keep her Slug as well? Hrrmmm... You mite as well have given Orochimaru Manda because there's no way in hell these 3 jounin can handle the summons that can potentially be brought out. Kakashi & Gai would wipe themselves out using there Hax's just to get rid of these guys. Asuma would get beaten by any of the Sannin in a 1 vs 1...

Team Sannin win.

Dagoro
06-03-2009, 05:24 PM
Gai, Kakashi, and Asuma vs Jiraiya, Orochimaru, and Tsunade

The Sanin rape, Unrestricted Oro solos.

superninja
06-03-2009, 05:31 PM
Team Sanin too strong, the only way jounins could win is that Gai opens all the gates. No, the only way for jounins to win is tire the sanins out by making sanins use their summons and what not. Team Asuma, Kakashi and Gai need to lay traps and go hide, but stick close to each other. Then Asuma and Kakashi single out one of the sanins like Tsunade, while Gai opens all the gates, Jiraiya and Orochimaru would react to Kakashi and Asuma attack, then Gai storms in and takes out Jiraiya and Oro.

poolangya
06-03-2009, 06:13 PM
Team Sannin vs Team Jounin
Sannin wins. no way team jounin can compare with the big 3. at the most,team jounin can take out Tsunade. but the can't do anything to Jman and Oro.Sannins are too much to handle for these 3 jounins.Sannins 9-1 Jounins, 1 for benefit of the doubt.

Sasori + Hidan vs Gaara + Kakashi
Hidan will only be capable of battling kakashi.no way he can compete with gaara. so it's either Kakashi rapes hidan, or takes a hit from Hidan's scythe. this battle will center mainly on Gaara vs Sasori. Regular Sand vs Iron Sand. i give the 2 akatsukis the upperhand for this fight because of Sasori. Sasori + Hidan 6-4 Gaara + Kakashi.

Dagoro
06-03-2009, 09:30 PM
Gated Lee vs Minato, Sm Naruto, Shodai,Sarutobi, Noidame, Madara, KB, Sasuke,Oro,Tsunade and Kakashi.

Gated Lee totally takes this, He can break the ground when he jumps. No ninja in the history of the universe can boast such a claim but him.

Kreglze
06-03-2009, 09:37 PM
Haha classic. Yeah Lee defeats them with his super speed, until he meets Minato's fist and Lee's face implodes haha.

But yeah Minato could do the work while the rest of them have a tea party.

lamps123
06-04-2009, 02:54 AM
Gated Lee vs Minato, Sm Naruto, Shodai,Sarutobi, Noidame, Madara, KB, Sasuke,Oro,Tsunade and Kakashi.

Gated Lee totally takes this, He can break the ground when he jumps. No ninja in the history of the universe can boast such a claim but him.
haha dagoro you are forgetting gated lee would lose only because sasuawesome is there.
but if not sure gated lee rapes all.

superninja
06-04-2009, 08:30 AM
Ok, how about SM Naruto vs Minato, Gated Lee, Shodai, Sarutobi, Nidaime, Madara, Killer bee, Sasuke, Oro, Tsunade and Kakashi.
SM Naruto totally takes this. He can blitz hit everyone like he did with Demon realm, and he has frog katas so he doesn't even have to hit his opponents to kill them. Oh, and he also can't be hurt coz he has the NE shield :cool:

Dagoro
06-04-2009, 01:04 PM
The best part about Superninja's post is that he fails even when he tries to copy someone.

Myth
06-04-2009, 01:08 PM
Ok, how about SM Naruto vs Minato, Gated Lee, Shodai, Sarutobi, Nidaime, Madara, Killer bee, Sasuke, Oro, Tsunade and Kakashi.
SM Naruto totally takes this. He can blitz hit everyone like he did with Demon realm, and he has frog katas so he doesn't even have to hit his opponents to kill them. Oh, and he also can't be hurt coz he has the NE shield :cool:

Dude when u copy someone u fail sicne the other person already said it first nd everyone laughed.. ur Like KYF i did the same thing nd he failed in copying me...

Btw what moron said he can break the ground on take of lol big deal tsunade broke the ground with her finger jiraiya jumped and landed nd broke the ground... whats the noobs point???????????

lamps123
06-04-2009, 01:48 PM
Ok, how about SM Naruto vs Minato, Gated Lee, Shodai, Sarutobi, Nidaime, Madara, Killer bee, Sasuke, Oro, Tsunade and Kakashi.
SM Naruto totally takes this. He can blitz hit everyone like he did with Demon realm, and he has frog katas so he doesn't even have to hit his opponents to kill them. Oh, and he also can't be hurt coz he has the NE shield :cool:
sure naruto loses do you think we look like some retarded sasuketards.

superninja
06-04-2009, 08:01 PM
@Dagoro there, I also thanked you on that extraordinarily witty remark. It's so witty I didn't understand it but since you're getting thanks for it I figured it must be something good.

Myth
06-04-2009, 08:06 PM
@Dagoro there, I also thanked you on that extraordinarily witty remark. It's so witty I didn't understand it but since you're getting thanks for it I figured it must be something good.

If u didn't understand his post, it means u fail at reading comprehension as well...

New fight..

Sasuke current VS Garra with Shukaku

Dagoro
06-04-2009, 08:10 PM
location ??

In the desert Gaara stomps, anywhere else Sasuke wins.

superninja
06-04-2009, 09:12 PM
If u didn't understand his post, it means u fail at reading comprehension as well...


No, I just didn't see what was so good in his post. That it deserved to be thanked. Maybe someone could enlighten me, I am curious now.

Vengeance
06-05-2009, 09:34 AM
Sasuke current VS Gaara with Shukaku
Sasuke may be faster than Gaara however Gaara can fly while Sasuke is no longer able to.

If Gaara uses his sand to block Sasuke's line of sight then Sasuke's dojutsu(including Amaterasu) wouldn't be effective. With the ability to change the terrain into a small desert Gaara can gain an almost instant field advantage regardless of where they start. Sasuke would need to Amaterasu this attack if he hopes to survive. Doing so however would leave him vunurable to an attack.

Sasuke's Nagashi can be used to brake away from Gaara's sand if he happens to get trapped. Kirin is a little to risky as it requires a massive amount of his chakra as well as Amaterasu flames. Eisou can be used to quickly kill Gaara by piercing his sand ball then expanding the jutsu in the same way he did against Itachi's clone.

Winner-Sasuke; Eisou early would end the fight regardless of terrain.

superninja
06-05-2009, 06:51 PM
Sasuke vs Gara

Gara is kazekage so he must have some new moves by now. Against Sasuke who can penetrate his sand defense with his elongated chidori, Gara needs something new to win. So, Gara can fly through the air carried by his sand, while Sasuke stays on the ground. Sasuke could then try to reach for Gara with his chidori variation, that would make Gara go higher in the air. If Gara collects enough sand from the environment he can do a new attack, bombs of sand he throws to the ground below him. Sasuke evades those. But then the ground below Sasuke becomes the live sand. Gara dropped himself down masked in one of the sand bombs so he can preform his earth coffin technique he used on Kimimaro.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-05-2009, 08:16 PM
Ok, how about SM Naruto vs Minato, Gated Lee, Shodai, Sarutobi, Nidaime, Madara, Killer bee, Sasuke, Oro, Tsunade and Kakashi.
SM Naruto totally takes this. He can blitz hit everyone like he did with Demon realm, and he has frog katas so he doesn't even have to hit his opponents to kill them. Oh, and he also can't be hurt coz he has the NE shield :cool:

Lol, give them a taste of their own bitter fail!

And the fact the rest of those idiots thinks that someone attacking the ground with super strength is the same as someone taking off with so much explosive power it annihilates the ground:rolleyes:

Here let me explain in Lamens terms!

Senin Super strong women busts up the ground by intentionally attacking it< Wiry little Genin annihilating the ground when he takes off to attack.

Lol, whats stupid is no one else in the series has been able to produce such explosive power since "excluding gai" yet you people are so narutarted it just doesnt process. And your the worst Dagoro, you make fun of yet not even naruto can put out as much explosive force as Lee in Gated mode, lmao.

Sasuke vs Gaara?

This is easy because with sasuke chidori variations Gaaras attacks are ineffective. MS doesnt even matter because Speed and Raiton jutsu is all sasuke needs against a earth user with no other skills.

Myth
06-05-2009, 08:18 PM
Lol, give them a taste of their own bitter fail!

And the fact the rest of those idiots thinks that someone attacking the ground with super strength is the same as someone taking off with so much explosive power it annihilates the ground:rolleyes:

Here let me explain in Lamens terms!

Senin Super strong women busts up the ground by intentionally attacking it< Wiry little Genin annihilating the ground when he takes off to attack.

Lol, whats stupid is no one else in the series has been able to produce such explosive power since "excluding gai" yet you people are so narutarted it just doesnt process. And your the worst Dagoro, you make fun of yet not even naruto can put out as much explosive force as Lee in Gated mode, lmao.

Sasuke vs Gaara?

This is easy because with sasuke chidori variations Gaaras attacks are ineffective. MS doesnt even matter because Speed and Raiton jutsu is all sasuke needs against a earth user with no other skills.


uhmmmm so basically ur saying u suck nd ur arguments always fail.. i see


Lee<almost everyone in the manga

Le with gates<any shinobi who is skilled enough to make a few clones..

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-05-2009, 08:27 PM
uhmmmm so basically ur saying u suck nd ur arguments always fail.. i see


Lee<almost everyone in the manga

Le with gates<any shinobi who is skilled enough to make a few clones..

W/e you tell yourself troll! Genin lee with only 4 gates released showed he was capable of competing with Naruto. However, after 3 years of more training 4 gates Lee for less than a minute will ass rape even naruto.

Lol, I can understand why Gated Lee would be underestimated since Gaara survived his attacks. But its common knowledge Gaara uses earth style and wears sand armor which Gaara can make very dense "earth style:rolleyes:". Dense enough to help sheild against Lees attacks and strong enough sheild against C2 Kimimarros Horn attack which was completly nullified thanks to the sand armor.

Myth
06-05-2009, 08:40 PM
^hawt guess what Lee<naruto base pre time skip post time skip nd after another 70 years and so on...

u know ur wrong when the entire NS disagrees on this nd its not cause they're narutards since its always that way when it comes specifically to you...

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-05-2009, 08:48 PM
^hawt guess what Lee<naruto base pre time skip post time skip nd after another 70 years and so on...

u know ur wrong when the entire NS disagrees on this nd its not cause they're narutards since its always that way when it comes specifically to you...

A bunch of bias naruto fans disagree about another character being able to KO the unstoppable naruto. What a shock:rolleyes: Seriously, Little genin Lee with 4gates released has the speed and power to compete with SM naruto, but now that lee is three years of training stronger then 4gates should be enough to beat naruto.

honestly, when Lee goes 4gates and blitzes around so fast that naruto cant see much less react to his attacks, what is naruto going to do? Nothing!!! Narutos going to sit there and take it because theres nothing else he or anyone else could do against someone attacking with such explosive power.

Myth
06-05-2009, 08:52 PM
the thing is everyone always disagrees with u im guessing ur excuse is "hurrr they're narutards" no kid grow up they disagree because ur obviously wrong nd u are trust me, otherwise they'd agree with u..... u also go around screaming fail blha blah blah nd how u post manga facts but u really don't, very rarely... If u want respect u need to earn it by having intelligent debates nd looking at things both sides using ur head logically also then just sprouting random crap...

Think about kiddo;)

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-05-2009, 09:07 PM
the thing is everyone always disagrees with u im guessing ur excuse is "hurrr they're narutards" no kid grow up they disagree because ur obviously wrong nd u are trust me, otherwise they'd agree with u..... u also go around screaming fail blha blah blah nd how u post manga facts but u really don't, very rarely... If u want respect u need to earn it by having intelligent debates nd looking at things both sides using ur head logically also then just sprouting random crap...

Think about kiddo;)

some members always disagree with me when it comes to naruto so you can understand. And saying Im wrong about an oppinion is not only wrong its arrogant as well.

Most of all, Ive been doing Martial arts for years so I understand combat and ive been reading naruto for about two years so I know that as well. So, when I explain an advantage or disadvantage I actually know what Im talking about. And since this Manga isnt "the guy with the highest power level wins", its more realistic in the sense that advantage and disadvantage play a bigger role in deciding the winner/loser oppose to whos packing the most power.

And with that said you should understand why weaker characters would be able to beat stronger ones with the right tool/jutsu, advantages.

So, 4/5gates PTS Lee vs SM naruto is naruto although having super strength, power, stamina. Hes too slow to react or defend against someone moving at such speeds. Meaning Lee will land his attacks and since Lee hits with such force while moving at thise speeds then Lee could very well KO naruto.

redexploit
06-05-2009, 11:23 PM
Most of all, Ive been doing Martial arts for years so I understand combat and ive been reading naruto for about two years so I know that as well. So, when I explain an advantage or disadvantage I actually know what Im talking about.



You have taken all of those years of martial arts to perfect your "bullshit no jutsu." Cmon man, are you trying to give Myth and half the world along with him a way to beat down on you?

And holy moley, Lee with 4/5 gates probably isn't that much faster than SM Naruto...and hell even if he is, he sure isn't strong enough to do any significant damage while in the gates. Lee's best chance in that fight is to toss Gai's salad so that Gai will fight for him. And guess what? Gai would STILL LOSE!!

KYF - I like a lot of what you say. I really do. However, the second you say shit like you know a little karate so therefore you understand the manga better than anybody else, you just destroy all credibility.

TheSixthHokage
06-06-2009, 12:04 AM
some members always disagree with me when it comes to naruto so you can understand. And saying Im wrong about an oppinion is not only wrong its arrogant as well.

Most of all, Ive been doing Martial arts for years so I understand combat and ive been reading naruto for about two years so I know that as well. So, when I explain an advantage or disadvantage I actually know what Im talking about. And since this Manga isnt "the guy with the highest power level wins", its more realistic in the sense that advantage and disadvantage play a bigger role in deciding the winner/loser oppose to whos packing the most power.

And with that said you should understand why weaker characters would be able to beat stronger ones with the right tool/jutsu, advantages.

So, 4/5gates PTS Lee vs SM naruto is naruto although having super strength, power, stamina. Hes too slow to react or defend against someone moving at such speeds. Meaning Lee will land his attacks and since Lee hits with such force while moving at thise speeds then Lee could very well KO naruto.

Actually, the entire Naruto community disagrees with you. Sage Modes DOES increase speed, not only are you the ONLY person to disagree but the Naruto Wikia concludes with our point, in other words, you are one person arguing against the consensus of thousands of fans. Why? Because you know some karate.... wow...

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sage_Mode

4/5 gates would give Lee a boost sure, but senjutsu isn't something anyone can do...anyone can learn to release gates, anyone.... perhaps not to the degree Gai or Lee can, but regardless senjutsu is far more rare and powerful... Pa Frog did not say it increases strength, he said it gives a power-up to taijutsu, genjutsu and ninjutsu. He DOES NOT say it gives Naruto JUST strength, though he did display strength, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have speed. He blitzed that body of Pain, that IS speed.

Myth
06-06-2009, 12:08 AM
KYF dude lee will never defeat someone like naruto whos already seen him fight knows how the lotus works nd knows the interval... Naruto is king in konoha and nearly king in the series from the ppl who remain alive...

Ur opinion is ur opinion ur right not me or anyone else can rattle u for that. but, as it stands u always give some weird explanations nd theories some times i actually think "is he for real"..

I messed up on few things myself but not to such a degree.. trust me think about what u post before doing think it over from both sides...

edit:that link sixthhoakge provided seals up the whole lee naruto argument..

Shrike
06-06-2009, 06:44 AM
I just skimmed fast and saw gated Lee vs SM Naruto.

Naruto shit-stomps. Lee would win if he went 8 gates, probably, but we don't know if he can go past 5th gate, so, he would probably loose anyway.

poolangya
06-06-2009, 06:32 PM
sasuke vs gaara

gaara can fly and range advantage. with that reason, i give it to gaara 6-4 sasuke. gaara wins a hard fought battle.

TheSixthHokage
06-06-2009, 07:54 PM
Seriously???

Then how did Deidera get killed by Sasuke then??

Sasuke would stomp Gaara without his Bijuu.

poolangya
06-06-2009, 08:00 PM
because sasuke has CS hax before that's why he caught deidei.
gaara without bijuu would be one less factor for gaara to win.but i guess the versus condition was that gaara still has the bijuu? without bijuu, gaara loses.gaara 4-6 sasuke. but with bijuu, gaara wins gaara 6-4 sasuke.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-06-2009, 09:02 PM
You have taken all of those years of martial arts to perfect your "bullshit no jutsu." Cmon man, are you trying to give Myth and half the world along with him a way to beat down on you?

And holy moley, Lee with 4/5 gates probably isn't that much faster than SM Naruto...and hell even if he is, he sure isn't strong enough to do any significant damage while in the gates. Lee's best chance in that fight is to toss Gai's salad so that Gai will fight for him. And guess what? Gai would STILL LOSE!!

KYF - I like a lot of what you say. I really do. However, the second you say shit like you know a little karate so therefore you understand the manga better than anybody else, you just destroy all credibility.

Are you F-ing seriuos? I said I have years of Martial arts experience, not karate. And I said through that experience Ive learned alot about strategy, tactics ect which is why I can understand the combat aspect of the manga better than those who have no such experience or knowledge. For crying out loud, you sit there and tell me about credibility, but you cant even comprehend a couple of sentences of mine dude. Seriously, WTF:confused:

And hell no SM naruto isnt faster then gated lee, lol. Gated Genin Lee showed more speed then SM naruto did in his fight with pain. And dont use the demon realm BS because naruto had five pannles to jump and land on Demon realm just like he did against hell realm.

Actually, the entire Naruto community disagrees with you. Sage Modes DOES increase speed, not only are you the ONLY person to disagree but the Naruto Wikia concludes with our point, in other words, you are one person arguing against the consensus of thousands of fans. Why? Because you know some karate.... wow...

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sage_Mode

4/5 gates would give Lee a boost sure, but senjutsu isn't something anyone can do...anyone can learn to release gates, anyone.... perhaps not to the degree Gai or Lee can, but regardless senjutsu is far more rare and powerful... Pa Frog did not say it increases strength, he said it gives a power-up to taijutsu, genjutsu and ninjutsu. He DOES NOT say it gives Naruto JUST strength, though he did display strength, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have speed. He blitzed that body of Pain, that IS speed.

You too? WFT is with the Karate shit? Anyways, where did I say Naruto isnt faster in SM? Right, I didnt! You and every other over Bias fan acccuse me of crap I never even said, lol. You take what I say, reinterprit to fit with your own oppinion of me, then tell people I said something I didnt which is just pathetic.

And no matter what Pa said naruto would get from SM we found out in the fight against pain. Narutos super strong, powerful, denser and can sense people, but hes not much faster compared to the jump in the rest of his abilities.

And WFT again:confused: Naruto didnt use speed to take out demon realm. He sensed something five panles, two speeches before he intercepted DR which gives him plenty of time to jump up and land on Demon just like he did against hell realm "the exact same thing". So, for the millionth time naruto didnt blitz shit. Just like his amazing timing to show up when deva just lost his powers naruto showed up just in time to catch demon realm.

KYF dude lee will never defeat someone like naruto whos already seen him fight knows how the lotus works nd knows the interval... Naruto is king in konoha and nearly king in the series from the ppl who remain alive...

Ur opinion is ur opinion ur right not me or anyone else can rattle u for that. but, as it stands u always give some weird explanations nd theories some times i actually think "is he for real"..

edit:that link sixthhoakge provided seals up the whole lee naruto argument..

Are you for real? Thinking 5 gates Lee wouldnt have a chance against naruto. Forbiden lotus is Lee and Gais SM exept it lasts for less than a second "lacks endurence" and Offers far more speed than SM does. So, for what FL lacks in endurence it more than makes up in speed.
I messed up on few things myself but not to such a degree.. trust me think about what u post before doing think it over from both sides...


EDIT: LMAO! using Naruto Wiki is like using fan fiction, its Fans that run the shit not kishi.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-06-2009, 09:27 PM
Sorry for the double post, I ran out of room:D


Gaara vs sasuke?

Seriously, fan of sasuke or not you have to admit sasuke would win this fight.

Why Gaara cant win:

1. Gaara attacks sasuke with sand, but sasuke uses his speed plus SG to read the attacks, dodge and get inside of gaara sand defense. Then sasuke jumps up stabs Gaar with his chidori lance "SG can see through his sand ball so sasuke knows where to attack".

2. Gaara actually catches sasuke in his sand coffin. However, sasuke uses chidori nagashi "full body chidori", breaks out, shoots a fire ball at gaara to distract him then blitzes up beside him and looks him in the eye to use tskuyomi, fight over.

3. Sasuke KOes Gaara with any of the other two allowing shikaku to take him over compaltely. But, sasuke just Amatersues his ass, fight over.

Sasuke wins!

TheSixthHokage
06-06-2009, 11:04 PM
Are you F-ing seriuos? I said I have years of Martial arts experience, not karate. And I said through that experience Ive learned alot about strategy, tactics ect which is why I can understand the combat aspect of the manga better than those who have no such experience or knowledge. For crying out loud, you sit there and tell me about credibility, but you cant even comprehend a couple of sentences of mine dude. Seriously, WTF:confused:

And hell no SM naruto isnt faster then gated lee, lol. Gated Genin Lee showed more speed then SM naruto did in his fight with pain. And dont use the demon realm BS because naruto had five pannles to jump and land on Demon realm just like he did against hell realm.



You too? WFT is with the Karate shit? Anyways, where did I say Naruto isnt faster in SM? Right, I didnt! You and every other over Bias fan acccuse me of crap I never even said, lol. You take what I say, reinterprit to fit with your own oppinion of me, then tell people I said something I didnt which is just pathetic.

And no matter what Pa said naruto would get from SM we found out in the fight against pain. Narutos super strong, powerful, denser and can sense people, but hes not much faster compared to the jump in the rest of his abilities.

And WFT again:confused: Naruto didnt use speed to take out demon realm. He sensed something five panles, two speeches before he intercepted DR which gives him plenty of time to jump up and land on Demon just like he did against hell realm "the exact same thing". So, for the millionth time naruto didnt blitz shit. Just like his amazing timing to show up when deva just lost his powers naruto showed up just in time to catch demon realm.



Are you for real? Thinking 5 gates Lee wouldnt have a chance against naruto. Forbiden lotus is Lee and Gais SM exept it lasts for less than a second "lacks endurence" and Offers far more speed than SM does. So, for what FL lacks in endurence it more than makes up in speed.
I messed up on few things myself but not to such a degree.. trust me think about what u post before doing think it over from both sides...


EDIT: LMAO! using Naruto Wiki is like using fan fiction, its Fans that run the shit not kishi.

He's not much faster?? How can you disagree with the blitz, he smashed a body from the air in seconds, before it could reach Tsunade. I misinterpret nothing as with this or anything about Sasuke, you make up whatever you want and claim it's canon. Notice how you're the only one who doubts SM has phenomenal speed?

You said and I quote, "Seriously, Little genin Lee with 4gates released has the speed and power to compete with SM naruto, but now that lee is three years of training stronger then 4gates should be enough to beat naruto." This entire statement is so full of ignorance it's insane. You seriously think a technique such as releasing 4/8 gates, can match senjutsu? Are you insane??

Are you not a fan? When 10,000 Naruto fans edit something, I am sure it's more correct than your assumptions, Karate experience is not a magical property.

Myth
06-06-2009, 11:34 PM
Sorry for the double post, I ran out of room:D


Gaara vs sasuke?

Seriously, fan of sasuke or not you have to admit sasuke would win this fight.

Why Gaara cant win:

1. Gaara attacks sasuke with sand, but sasuke uses his speed plus SG to read the attacks, dodge and get inside of gaara sand defense. Then sasuke jumps up stabs Gaar with his chidori lance "SG can see through his sand ball so sasuke knows where to attack".

2. Gaara actually catches sasuke in his sand coffin. However, sasuke uses chidori nagashi "full body chidori", breaks out, shoots a fire ball at gaara to distract him then blitzes up beside him and looks him in the eye to use tskuyomi, fight over.

3. Sasuke KOes Gaara with any of the other two allowing shikaku to take him over compaltely. But, sasuke just Amatersues his ass, fight over.

Sasuke wins!


if its an open area sasuke would be 200 feet under like kimi before he can do anything, garra can fly sasuke cannot garra has control over shukaku in part 2... nd sasuke cannot read sand attacks with his eyes simply put garra can make the sand move in any random direction such as kyubi chakra(which sasuke could not follow)

Closed area sasuke could win open area garra would take a shit on him all day.

Vengeance
06-07-2009, 12:37 AM
OMFG KY get off of rock lee's cock. He's never won a fight & is a fucking joke character created by Kishi in an attempt to make fun of Bruce Lee. Lee was never intended to be taken seriously.

Edit: Umm ok I've study martial arts for years as well but what does that have to do with a manga?

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-07-2009, 03:11 AM
He's not much faster?? How can you disagree with the blitz, he smashed a body from the air in seconds, before it could reach Tsunade. I misinterpret nothing as with this or anything about Sasuke, you make up whatever you want and claim it's canon. Notice how you're the only one who doubts SM has phenomenal speed?

You said and I quote, "Seriously, Little genin Lee with 4gates released has the speed and power to compete with SM naruto, but now that lee is three years of training stronger then 4gates should be enough to beat naruto." This entire statement is so full of ignorance it's insane. You seriously think a technique such as releasing 4/8 gates, can match senjutsu? Are you insane??

Are you not a fan? When 10,000 Naruto fans edit something, I am sure it's more correct than your assumptions, Karate experience is not a magical property.

Oh my god are you serious:confused: This is creepy fanning at its peak when you actually believe naruto flew over like superman and killed demon in a split second. Oh dear Buddha, WTF seriously lol.

Manga fact, naruto senses something five pannles and two speeches before he finally shows up on demon realm.

Also manga fact, through out the fight narutos attacks werent even faster than kakashis. Naruto attacked many times, however, this so called blitzing speed wasnt there.

Another manga fact, when naruto attacked hell realm he jumped high then flew down and took him out with great percision, but nothing special in terms of speed. Point! Wow look at that, naruto took out hell realm the same way he took out demon. He just notcied something, jumped and just happen to get there just in time like he did when he managed to arrive once deva lost his powers. There was no blitzing speed attack which is so obvious after seeing how fast SM naruto really could move in the fight with pain.

Its canon that SM naruto isnt any faster then kakashi if even that
The demon realm attack is just crazed fans interpritation of speed even though it took naruto five panles and two speeches before he got there, lol.

if its an open area sasuke would be 200 feet under like kimi before he can do anything, garra can fly sasuke cannot garra has control over shukaku in part 2... nd sasuke cannot read sand attacks with his eyes simply put garra can make the sand move in any random direction such as kyubi chakra(which sasuke could not follow)

Closed area sasuke could win open area garra would take a shit on him all day.

Lol, Gaara cant fly he can hover and his sand attacks were easily read by deidara who doesnt even have a SG. So, with Gaara only hovering and his SG reading his sand attacks like a book coupled with Raiton jutsu, MS and speed. Gaara cant win the fight.

Lol, If gaara used quick sand to lure sasuke down 1000 feet under ground to crush him then sasuke could just use chidori nagashi "full body chidori to keep the sand from comming together to crush him. And use amaterasu or Kirin to bore a way out to Gaara so he could pwn him.

Better yet, why would sasuke let himself get dragged down deep under ground when he could just put Gaar under a genjutsu, use amaterasu right then, summon a damn snake or even shoot flames at the soft sand to melt it together making it dense enough to climb out.

Sasuke wins this undoubtably!

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-07-2009, 03:51 AM
Sorry for the double post:D

OMFG KY get off of rock lee's cock. He's never won a fight & is a fucking joke character created by Kishi in an attempt to make fun of Bruce Lee. Lee was never intended to be taken seriously.

Edit: Umm ok I've study martial arts for years as well but what does that have to do with a manga?

Lol, that f-ing joke may have never won a fight in the series, but PTS 5gates Lee would own SM naruto for a little less then a minute.

i explained this manga isnt like Bleach or DBZ where the one with the highest power level is the one who wins. Naruto is more realistic in that the most powerful doenst always win. its about advantage and disadvantage, how fighters match up and one effectivly uses his/her advantages while compensating/finding a way around his/her disadvantages.

And Because Ive been studying/experiencing martial arts for many years now ive gained alot of knowledge most Importantly "understanding" of strategy and tactics, Advantage and disadvantage, strengths and weaknesses.

However, Im constantly critisised for my oppinion on alot of things. Like when I mentioned how naruto strength is useless against sasuke because sasuke can just use his speed to stay out of close quarters and pick naruto apart. However, all I hear is "No", "thats BS" ect ect. But despite Speed actually being a counter to strength I get called names as if I dont know what Im talking about:rolleyes:

And this thing with Lee too. Lee at 4gates as a genin was moving faster then Ive ever seen naruto move "SM included". So just imagine how quick the little bastard is now with three more years of raising his chakra level which will go even higher when he releases the gates giving far more speed and explosive power.

So, 5gates PTS Lee for less than a minute blitzes around so fast naruto cant even react to his attacks much less defend against them. Plus kind of impact his punches and kicks will have is just Loco, lol. Just Genin gated Lee was capable of annihilating the ground just by attacking Gaara.

however, just because Gaara with his earth style sand armor "earth style as in making things more dense like metal and Iron ect". And the sand cushin which without a doubt saved his ass from Lees final attack. Survived Lees gated attacks doesnt mean SM naruto would.

Also, the only other person who used earth style like Gaara was kakuzu who made himself like Iron which not even explosive Kunai could scratch. Lol, I wonder why Gaara was able to survive Lee barrage:rolleyes:

Anyways, my point is I actually understand strategy and tactics. And although certain Bias can influence my oppinon some I always Gauge advantage and disadvantage accuratly. So, telling me Im full of BS about certain characters and who has the advantage or probably win due to those advantages, lol, I know F-ing combat so what makes your oppinion so credible?

Seriously?

lamps123
06-07-2009, 05:44 AM
kyf i have only too things to say
5 manga panels=how many seconds
when 30 manga chapters=a day
in that same arc.
i mean look at how far naruto was to get there in less than a sec means he is fast.
secondly people are saying someone that uses bushin is the worst possible match for gates because naruto know how fast lee is in that mode so he can leave bunshin and henge to a rock which we have sen him do.
i think its pointless arguing if you still think ok gated lee would beat him in seconds then its ok its your opinion,but people are just a little suprise with the opinion.
*

tsurtsurel12
06-07-2009, 09:54 AM
how about Hinata vs Karin ?
Hinata beats i think
but we don't really know what Karin ca do either,except that bite-me-heal-you technique

redexploit
06-07-2009, 10:03 AM
Are you F-ing seriuos? I said I have years of Martial arts experience, not karate. And I said through that experience Ive learned alot about strategy, tactics ect which is why I can understand the combat aspect of the manga better than those who have no such experience or knowledge. For crying out loud, you sit there and tell me about credibility, but you cant even comprehend a couple of sentences of mine dude. Seriously, WTF:confused:

Did it ever occur to you that I might have intentionally written karate instead of martial arts in order to downplay what you had said and emphasize the stupidity of that previous claim?

Strategy, tactics? Right....because we all know that any Naruto aspects of combat have high correlation with real life combat. I'll give a few examples:
1. All MS techniques: the real life equivalent of those is ..........
2. Rasengan: the real life equivalent is ........
3. Bijuu: the real life equivalent is .......
4. KYF logic: the real life equivalent is: A special ed. student.

Vengeance
06-07-2009, 12:01 PM
Sorry for the double post:D



Lol, that f-ing joke may have never won a fight in the series, but PTS 5gates Lee would own SM naruto for a little less then a minute.
Lee would win because you say so? Great argument there KY now here's my counter. Lee has never & will never win a fight in this manga. Naruto defeated a stronger version of Gaara who defeated Lee & made him a cripple. SM Naruto is extremely durable as seen in the fight against Pain where he stopped a giant rhino & tossed it into space. Lee's gated hits actually aren't that powerful because he couldn't even brake through Gaara's sand armor.

i explained this manga isnt like Bleach or DBZ where the one with the highest power level is the one who wins. Naruto is more realistic in that the most powerful doenst always win. its about advantage and disadvantage, how fighters match up and one effectivly uses his/her advantages while compensating/finding a way around his/her disadvantages.
This is a manga about ninjas, demons, & magic & is in no way realistic you moron. Yes there's a bit of strategy related to this manga however rock lee doesn't have the actual abilities that make the fights more strategic. Lee is a simple minded brawler who falls into the stereotypical DBZ type fighter because he's nothing more than raw speed & power. While Naruto actually has the skills required for a strategic victory as seen time & time again in his battles in this manga.

And Because Ive been studying/experiencing martial arts for many years now ive gained alot of knowledge most Importantly "understanding" of strategy and tactics, Advantage and disadvantage, strengths and weaknesses.
So you have a higher understanding of magic weaknesses & the differences in 1 opponent vs 1000? You are so full of shit KY have you even read the art of war? If you have you wouldn't be fanning a neophyte who's so called battle strategies go against the teachings of some of the smartest militaristic minds on the planet. I'm not going to bother explaining this shit to you just pick up a few books & maybe you'll learn something.

However, Im constantly critisised for my oppinion on alot of things. Like when I mentioned how naruto strength is useless against sasuke because sasuke can just use his speed to stay out of close quarters and pick naruto apart. However, all I hear is "No", "thats BS" ect ect. But despite Speed actually being a counter to strength I get called names as if I dont know what Im talking about:rolleyes:
Sasuke & Naruto is a completely different topic. At least with Sasuke there's a chance he could win while with Lee that chance is 0%. We don't know how much faster Sasuke is than Naruto however you need to remember that Sasuke lost CS (his speed booster) while Naruto gained SM(his all stat booster including speed). In part one K0N was faster than Sasuke. But this is a totally different topic that I'm not getting into right now.

And this thing with Lee too. Lee at 4gates as a genin was moving faster then Ive ever seen naruto move "SM included". So just imagine how quick the little bastard is now with three more years of raising his chakra level which will go even higher when he releases the gates giving far more speed and explosive power.
It doesn't last while Lee was attacking a stationary target. Naruto would be moving around as well while SM grants him a chakra aura that protects him from physical damage. This is what you're not understanding. Lee's power isn't that explosive if he couldn't even handle a weaker version of Gaara. Lee also didn't really improve during the time skip while he was envious of Sasuke & Naruto back in part one(chuunin exam finals).

So, 5gates PTS Lee for less than a minute blitzes around so fast naruto cant even react to his attacks much less defend against them. Plus kind of impact his punches and kicks will have is just Loco, lol. Just Genin gated Lee was capable of annihilating the ground just by attacking Gaara.
Not true Naruto can sense chakra in SM which allows him to anticipate attacks. Also Naruto's speed increases & would make him several times faster than someone like Gaara who never moves while he's fighting. Naruto in part 1 broke the ground while running that really isn't anything special.

however, just because Gaara with his earth style sand armor "earth style as in making things more dense like metal and Iron ect". And the sand cushin which without a doubt saved his ass from Lees final attack. Survived Lees gated attacks doesnt mean SM naruto would.
Actually it does because it proves that with a strong defense Lee's attacks wouldn't do shit to someone. Again giant rhino was stopped mid charge & tossed into the air as if it was nothing. Gaara's sand armor couldn't compare to that if he was getting knocked off his feet by simple punches & kicks. What I'm saying is very fucking simple. SM defenses pwnz Gaara's sand armor. Get it yet or do I need to draw you a fucking picture?

Also, the only other person who used earth style like Gaara was kakuzu who made himself like Iron which not even explosive Kunai could scratch. Lol, I wonder why Gaara was able to survive Lee barrage:rolleyes:
Yet Gaara's sand armor was pierced by kunai. Or did you forget when Naruto shoved a kunai with a paper bomb up Gaara's arse? Gaara's sand armor isn't as effective as Kakazu's Iron skin ron.

Anyways, my point is I actually understand strategy and tactics. And although certain Bias can influence my oppinon some I always Gauge advantage and disadvantage accuratly. So, telling me Im full of BS about certain characters and who has the advantage or probably win due to those advantages, lol, I know F-ing combat so what makes your oppinion so credible?
Actually you don't because if you did you'd know that burning yourself out within the first 2 minutes of a fight is not a good battle strategy. Your obsessions with characters always influence your opinion who're you fooling? Go read a few books on strategy & apologize to me later when you've learned something. My opinion is more creditable than yours because I don't base them on which character's I like. I've actually studied different types of martial arts for years, competed in tournaments, read books on war fare, & am smarter than you'll ever hope to be.

Seriously?
Seriously did your post have to be this long for my small comment? What's the matter KY did I upset you by calling your boyfriend a joke character? Your post fails hard I swear you should be ashamed of some of the crap that comes out of your mouth. Vast years of martial arts experience makes you more creditable in debating on a fictional story about magic & demons? Lay off of the crack or whatever drugs you may be taking before you end up like that guy in the movie bug.

Myth
06-07-2009, 01:19 PM
Kyf garra was attacking deidara head on nd they were in the air had they been on the ground deidara would be dead...

Garra can turn the entire terrain into pulling u down like he did with kimimaru.. sorry ur mks won't help....

Garra with shukaku>sasuke in an open area.... sasuke>garra in a more closed location.


Lee is fuckign weak i told u stop embarrassing urself just let it go if the entire board disagrees with u why keep pushing it its obvious ur wrong, if u were right ppl would say "ye ur right kyf my bad" when ur wrong people will disagree just quit already damn...

Naruto as a gennin beat garra with shukaaku lee couldn't do shit he couldn't even scratch garra garra got up and walked away after their fight like nothing happened.. against naruto he couldn't even move.. that alone ends it all..
Gates are uslesss if ur opponent has seen them at work once nd knows how to counter... anything damage lee does kyuubi will just heal thats how it is.. thats why naruto almost never gets "hurt" in a fight. look at his fight against pain he walked out just tired...

Xicidal
06-08-2009, 10:53 AM
Are you F-ing seriuos? I said I have years of Martial arts experience, not karate. And I said through that experience Ive learned alot about strategy, tactics ect which is why I can understand the combat aspect of the manga better than those who have no such experience or knowledge. For crying out loud, you sit there and tell me about credibility, but you cant even comprehend a couple of sentences of mine dude. Seriously, WTF:confused:

And hell no SM naruto isnt faster then gated lee, lol. Gated Genin Lee showed more speed then SM naruto did in his fight with pain. And dont use the demon realm BS because naruto had five pannles to jump and land on Demon realm just like he did against hell realm.



You too? WFT is with the Karate shit? Anyways, where did I say Naruto isnt faster in SM? Right, I didnt! You and every other over Bias fan acccuse me of crap I never even said, lol. You take what I say, reinterprit to fit with your own oppinion of me, then tell people I said something I didnt which is just pathetic.

And no matter what Pa said naruto would get from SM we found out in the fight against pain. Narutos super strong, powerful, denser and can sense people, but hes not much faster compared to the jump in the rest of his abilities.

And WFT again:confused: Naruto didnt use speed to take out demon realm. He sensed something five panles, two speeches before he intercepted DR which gives him plenty of time to jump up and land on Demon just like he did against hell realm "the exact same thing". So, for the millionth time naruto didnt blitz shit. Just like his amazing timing to show up when deva just lost his powers naruto showed up just in time to catch demon realm.



Are you for real? Thinking 5 gates Lee wouldnt have a chance against naruto. Forbiden lotus is Lee and Gais SM exept it lasts for less than a second "lacks endurence" and Offers far more speed than SM does. So, for what FL lacks in endurence it more than makes up in speed.
I messed up on few things myself but not to such a degree.. trust me think about what u post before doing think it over from both sides...


EDIT: LMAO! using Naruto Wiki is like using fan fiction, its Fans that run the shit not kishi.

drop it man, its getting annoying. No one agrees with you.
If naruto can a take a chidori through his chest I doubt anything lee could do would defeat naruto or even knock him out anyways.

So lets agree to disagree and leave it be.

TheSixthHokage
06-09-2009, 06:30 PM
Alright, to get the thread moving again:

Kakashi (pre-MS) versus Sasuke (pre-Hebi)

Location: Chunin Exam Final Arena, during the day

lamps123
06-09-2009, 08:12 PM
hahaha lol read all the comment lol i think kyf has left the forum lol
he is out of crap too say,
maybe he should try nf where they accept and praise craps as a topic.
kyf would be like a god among men.lol
tsh i think sasuke beats kakashi.

Dagoro
06-09-2009, 09:33 PM
@ Lamps

Wishfull thinking, he'll be back.

Sasuke would win still. Before Hebi he had everthing but Oro's abilities, cs2 gives him the edge over Kakashi.

poolangya
06-10-2009, 08:28 PM
sasuke takes this.kakashi pre ms is kakashi pts.while sasuke has cs. kakashi would lose this, sasuke 7-3 kakashi.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-12-2009, 03:05 AM
Did it ever occur to you that I might have intentionally written karate instead of martial arts in order to downplay what you had said and emphasize the stupidity of that previous claim?

Strategy, tactics? Right....because we all know that any Naruto aspects of combat have high correlation with real life combat. I'll give a few examples:
1. All MS techniques: the real life equivalent of those is ..........
2. Rasengan: the real life equivalent is ........
3. Bijuu: the real life equivalent is .......
4. KYF logic: the real life equivalent is: A special ed. student.

Honestly, why the fuck would I be refering to the fiction of the manga. I was referering to mainly speed, strength, endurence ect, basic tactics, terrain and how they match up against each other. For instance, strength is only effective in close quarters usually best for grappling. it can be countered by speed "cant hit what you cant catch" and endurence "wear the opponent down". ect ect!

Manga example, when kisame forced Gai to fight on water its understandable if he wasnt really moving as fast a he could of because water is not sterdi unlike land. And although people cant walk much less fight on water in the real wolrd I would imagine fighting on water is like trying to fight in a row boat, lol. Ect ect!


Lee would win because you say so? Great argument there KY now here's my counter. Lee has never & will never win a fight in this manga. Naruto defeated a stronger version of Gaara who defeated Lee & made him a cripple. SM Naruto is extremely durable as seen in the fight against Pain where he stopped a giant rhino & tossed it into space. Lee's gated hits actually aren't that powerful because he couldn't even brake through Gaara's sand armor.


This is a manga about ninjas, demons, & magic & is in no way realistic you moron. Yes there's a bit of strategy related to this manga however rock lee doesn't have the actual abilities that make the fights more strategic. Lee is a simple minded brawler who falls into the stereotypical DBZ type fighter because he's nothing more than raw speed & power. While Naruto actually has the skills required for a strategic victory as seen time & time again in his battles in this manga.


So you have a higher understanding of magic weaknesses & the differences in 1 opponent vs 1000? You are so full of shit KY have you even read the art of war? If you have you wouldn't be fanning a neophyte who's so called battle strategies go against the teachings of some of the smartest militaristic minds on the planet. I'm not going to bother explaining this shit to you just pick up a few books & maybe you'll learn something.


Sasuke & Naruto is a completely different topic. At least with Sasuke there's a chance he could win while with Lee that chance is 0%. We don't know how much faster Sasuke is than Naruto however you need to remember that Sasuke lost CS (his speed booster) while Naruto gained SM(his all stat booster including speed). In part one K0N was faster than Sasuke. But this is a totally different topic that I'm not getting into right now.


It doesn't last while Lee was attacking a stationary target. Naruto would be moving around as well while SM grants him a chakra aura that protects him from physical damage. This is what you're not understanding. Lee's power isn't that explosive if he couldn't even handle a weaker version of Gaara. Lee also didn't really improve during the time skip while he was envious of Sasuke & Naruto back in part one(chuunin exam finals).


Not true Naruto can sense chakra in SM which allows him to anticipate attacks. Also Naruto's speed increases & would make him several times faster than someone like Gaara who never moves while he's fighting. Naruto in part 1 broke the ground while running that really isn't anything special.


Actually it does because it proves that with a strong defense Lee's attacks wouldn't do shit to someone. Again giant rhino was stopped mid charge & tossed into the air as if it was nothing. Gaara's sand armor couldn't compare to that if he was getting knocked off his feet by simple punches & kicks. What I'm saying is very fucking simple. SM defenses pwnz Gaara's sand armor. Get it yet or do I need to draw you a fucking picture?


Yet Gaara's sand armor was pierced by kunai. Or did you forget when Naruto shoved a kunai with a paper bomb up Gaara's arse? Gaara's sand armor isn't as effective as Kakazu's Iron skin ron.


Actually you don't because if you did you'd know that burning yourself out within the first 2 minutes of a fight is not a good battle strategy. Your obsessions with characters always influence your opinion who're you fooling? Go read a few books on strategy & apologize to me later when you've learned something. My opinion is more creditable than yours because I don't base them on which character's I like. I've actually studied different types of martial arts for years, competed in tournaments, read books on war fare, & am smarter than you'll ever hope to be.


Seriously did your post have to be this long for my small comment? What's the matter KY did I upset you by calling your boyfriend a joke character? Your post fails hard I swear you should be ashamed of some of the crap that comes out of your mouth. Vast years of martial arts experience makes you more creditable in debating on a fictional story about magic & demons? Lay off of the crack or whatever drugs you may be taking before you end up like that guy in the movie bug.

Seriously again, why the fuck would I be talking about the fictional parts of combat, lamo. Read^^!

And yes lee couldnt beat Gaara, but I wouldnt consider him the more powerful version when it comes to effectiveness. For instance, Naruto faught Gaara when he wasnt using any sand attacks. He was using mianly taijutsu with a couple of other attacks. Lol, now its amazing that you cant notice how naruto ganged up on 1tail gaara while he was in a tree and couldnt maneuver very well. Lol, what am I saying the guy just stood there! There was no sand attacks ect, just basic taijutsu. Meanwhile Lee had to fight Gaara when he used sand attacks unlike naruto. For crying out load Lee, Neji, sasuke or even chouji could kick Gaaras ass if hes just going to sit in a tree and not use any sand, lol.

Point, characters match up differently and will be more effective against some and less effective against others depending on strengths and weaknesses.

Edit: Lmao! ive read the art of war many times so your fail Mr Naruto surpassed sasuke when he learned the wind element, lol. seriously, please explain that one to me.

@ Lamps

Wishfull thinking, he'll be back.

Sasuke would win still. Before Hebi he had everthing but Oro's abilities, cs2 gives him the edge over Kakashi.

Quit Mustache!

lamps123
06-12-2009, 03:46 AM
Honestly, why the fuck would I be refering to the fiction of the manga. I was referering to mainly speed, strength, endurence ect, basic tactics, terrain and how they match up against each other. For instance, strength is only effective in close quarters usually best for grappling. it can be countered by speed "cant hit what you cant catch" and endurence "wear the opponent down". ect ect!

Manga example, when kisame forced Gai to fight on water its understandable if he wasnt really moving as fast a he could of because water is not sterdi unlike land. And although people cant walk much less fight on water in the real wolrd I would imagine fighting on water is like trying to fight in a row boat, lol. Ect ect!




Seriously again, why the fuck would I be talking about the fictional parts of combat, lamo. Read^^!

And yes lee couldnt beat Gaara, but I wouldnt consider him the more powerful version when it comes to effectiveness. For instance, Naruto faught Gaara when he wasnt using any sand attacks. He was using mianly taijutsu with a couple of other attacks. Lol, now its amazing that you cant notice how naruto ganged up on 1tail gaara while he was in a tree and couldnt maneuver very well. Lol, what am I saying the guy just stood there! There was no sand attacks ect, just basic taijutsu. Meanwhile Lee had to fight Gaara when he used sand attacks unlike naruto. For crying out load Lee, Neji, sasuke or even chouji could kick Gaaras ass if hes just going to sit in a tree and not use any sand, lol.

Point, characters match up differently and will be more effective against some and less effective against others depending on strengths and weaknesses.

Edit: Lmao! ive read the art of war many times so your fail Mr Naruto surpassed sasuke when he learned the wind element, lol. seriously, please explain that one to me.



Quit Mustache!
oh you are back.

Vengeance
06-12-2009, 10:12 AM
Seriously again, why the fuck would I be talking about the fictional parts of combat, lamo. Read^^!
Then why bring up martial arts as experience & expertise in regards to a fictional story about magic, demons, & ninjas?

And yes lee couldnt beat Gaara, but I wouldnt consider him the more powerful version when it comes to effectiveness. For instance, Naruto faught Gaara when he wasnt using any sand attacks. He was using mianly taijutsu with a couple of other attacks.
Gaara encased himself in sand & was in a tailed Shukaku state. His speed, strength, & durability was clearly enhanced well beyond what Lee fought during the chunin exams because he was tapping into Shukaku. Just because Gaara didn’t use his normal sand attacks really isn’t an issue here because we're talking about the strength of Lee’s attacks & comparing Gaara’s endurance between the two fights. Mind you I'm talking about before he went to sleep. Sasuke defeated a normal Gaara (which is what Lee fought) but lost to Gaara once he tapped into Shukaku. This obviously means that Shukaku Gaara is superior to normal Gaara. If you don’t get that then you're clearly a fucking moron.

Lol, now its amazing that you cant notice how naruto ganged up on 1tail gaara while he was in a tree and couldnt maneuver very well. Lol, what am I saying the guy just stood there! There was no sand attacks ect, just basic taijutsu. Meanwhile Lee had to fight Gaara when he used sand attacks unlike naruto. For crying out load Lee, Neji, sasuke or even chouji could kick Gaaras ass if hes just going to sit in a tree and not use any sand, lol.
Gaara's sand is slow while Naruto, Lee, & Sasuke can all dodge the most basic of his attacks. You're still ignoring the main issue dickhead which is Gaara's endurance vs SM Naruto's endurance. You've still failed to make your case in regards to the actual argument.

Point, characters match up differently and will be more effective against some and less effective against others depending on strengths and weaknesses.
My point: SM naruto's chakra aura is superior to Gaara's sand armor. A point you're still avoiding & can't really find a counter for.

Edit: Lmao! ive read the art of war many times so your fail Mr Naruto surpassed sasuke when he learned the wind element, lol. seriously, please explain that one to me.
Suuure you have(bullshit). Your post fails my retarded friend as you've got nothing to say about my actual post were I tore you a new arsehole. Glad to see I didn't make you leave NL permanently. Anyway don't worry I'll be going to Tokyo tomorrow so you won't have to keep hiding.

Wind training I've already explained. If you want I'll do it again however I need to get back to work.

superninja
06-12-2009, 02:38 PM
My point: SM naruto's chakra aura is superior to Gaara's sand armor. A point you're still avoiding & can't really find a counter for.


How do you know that? Gara's sand armor endured punches from gated Lee. What did Naruto's chakra aura endure so far? Falling down from some height into sharp rocks, something I am sure Gara's sand armor would endure since it endured getting slamed into the ground from some height by gated Lee. What else? Getting punched by Deva realm. Gara was getting kicked around by gated Lee. So you just decided that Yahiko's punch is stronger than gated Lee's kicks ha ?

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-12-2009, 02:53 PM
[QUOTE]Then why bring up martial arts as experience & expertise in regards to a fictional story about magic, demons, & ninjas?

I guess I could of elabotaed a little better, but just to make all aware I know combat so Im not just stating an uneducated BS oppinion when it comes to how characters match up, lol.

Gaara encased himself in sand & was in a tailed Shukaku state. His speed, strength, & durability was clearly enhanced well beyond what Lee fought during the chunin exams because he was tapping into Shukaku. Just because Gaara didn’t use his normal sand attacks really isn’t an issue here because we're talking about the strength of Lee’s attacks & comparing Gaara’s endurance between the two fights. Mind you I'm talking about before he went to sleep. Sasuke defeated a normal Gaara (which is what Lee fought) but lost to Gaara once he tapped into Shukaku. This obviously means that Shukaku Gaara is superior to normal Gaara. If you don’t get that then you're clearly a fucking moron.

Uuum, gaara 1tail form wasnt dense at all which is why it absorbed sasukes shurikan then shot them back, lol. They didnt bounce off because the sand isnt like his base armor its soft which is why it didnt crack when naruto beat him down.

And yes shukaku Gaara is supirior, but only in taijutsu while base gaara is supiriror in ninjutsu which is why Lee stood a better chance against 1tail Gaara instaed of base. And saying Naruto beat the supirior Gaara when he just stood in a tree and let naruto kick the crap out of his "PNJ as usual", but when he fought sasuke he was flying around anddestroying shit. Lol, naruto may have PNJed his way to vitory against 1tail Gaara, but base would murder him undoubtably because base uses ninjutsu instead of taijutsu.

And you cant understand this^ your not only a hypocrit but a moron as well. Its like I said "how characters match up based on strengths, weaknesses and terrain".

Gaara's sand is slow while Naruto, Lee, & Sasuke can all dodge the most basic of his attacks. You're still ignoring the main issue dickhead which is Gaara's endurance vs SM Naruto's endurance. You've still failed to make your case in regards to the actual argument.

WTF are you talking about Gaara endurence vs SM narutos endurence? Now youve changed the subject to naruto endurence, why?

And naruto never dodged any sand attacks like sasuke and Lee so your just assuming, but its manga fact naruto back then is slow as crap so its far more likly he wouldve been caught then crushed.

My point: SM naruto's chakra aura is superior to Gaara's sand armor. A point you're still avoiding & can't really find a counter for.

Lol, what? Narutos arura helps him offensively, but its narutos density that helps him defensiely. See, there you go and say naruto arura is more effective defensively than Gaara sand armor which is just BS. Seriously man, you just pulled that one out of your ass. Stay on topic!

Countered, lol.

Suuure you have(bullshit). Your post fails my retarded friend as you've got nothing to say about my actual post were I tore you a new arsehole. Glad to see I didn't make you leave NL permanently. Anyway don't worry I'll be going to Tokyo tomorrow so you won't have to keep hiding.

Fails lol, at least I dont make shit up like naruto Arura is supririor to Gaara sand armor, lol. And you better run!:D

Wind training I've already explained. If you want I'll do it again however I need to get back to work.

Please, enlighten me and the rest of the forum as to how naruto with some wind training surpassed Hebi sasuke, lol.

Vengeance
06-12-2009, 06:19 PM
I guess I could of elabotaed a little better, but just to make all aware I know combat so Im not just stating an uneducated BS oppinion when it comes to how characters match up, lol.
Still didn't answer my question. How does your so called combat training (LMAO) make you an expert in fictional combat that uses magic & demons?

Uuum, gaara 1tail form wasnt dense at all which is why it absorbed sasukes shurikan then shot them back, lol. They didnt bounce off because the sand isnt like his base armor its soft which is why it didnt crack when naruto beat him down.
Are you talking about this 111-13 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=111&p=12)? FYI that happened when Gaara was in a normal state so VOID until proven otherwise. We're talking about Shukaku Gaara not normal Gaara.

And yes shukaku Gaara is supirior, but only in taijutsu.
Stop!!!!! So you agree that Shukaku Gaara is a superior taijutsu form when compared to normal Gaara? You do realize that is my whole point. Lee is a Tai only fighter while a superior taijutsu form would no doubt have superior strength, speed, & durability.

while base gaara is supiriror in ninjutsu which is why Lee stood a better chance against 1tail Gaara instaed of base.
Irrelevant to the conversation & Lee would get merced allot faster by Gaara in a 1 tailed state when compared to the version he fought. Gaara really didn't do much in his fight against Lee other than take a beating & crush his arm & leg. While Shukaku Gaara is faster than Lee without weights (Sasuke admitting that he wouldn't be able to dodge without sharingan which makes Gaara faster than Sasuke at this point 128-7 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=128&p=6)) would actually fight back & would be physically superior to Lee. Lee wouldn't stand a chance against Gaara in this form.

And saying Naruto beat the supirior Gaara when he just stood in a tree and let naruto kick the crap out of his "PNJ as usual", but when he fought sasuke he was flying around anddestroying shit. Lol, naruto may have PNJed his way to vitory against 1tail Gaara, but base would murder him undoubtably because base uses ninjutsu instead of taijutsu.
Just like Gaara just stood there & let Lee kick the crap out of him? PnJ is a cop out comment made by people who don't actually have something intelligent to add to the conversation so your comment fails. Naruto actually saved Sasuke's arse 128-18 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=128&p=17). You act like Gaara did nothing against Naruto while these links say otherwise 132-4 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=132&p=3) 132-14 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=132&p=14) 132-15 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=132&p=15) 132-16 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=132&p=16) 132-17 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=132&p=17).

You want to talk about strategy in a rock lee fight? Show me a single manga image of something clever done by Lee that can compare to this 133-5 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=133&p=4) 133-6 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=133&p=5) 133-7 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=133&p=6). This is strategic fighting you moron not what Lee does. Notice how Naruto uses his clones to compensate for the speed difference & finds a way to get behind Gaara.

Remember my comment about 1 vs 1000? This isn't PnJ it's called a numbers advantage 133-16 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=133&p=15). O yeah dipshit the reason why Gaara just stood there is because he was still weakened by Naruto's paper bomb 134-4 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=134&p=3). PnJ? I think not you're just a fucking hater.

And you cant understand this^ your not only a hypocrit but a moron as well. Its like I said "how characters match up based on strengths, weaknesses and terrain".
You're the one not understanding dude but I explained everything above. The actual argument is durability not differences in styles. You really need to stop veering off track & stay to the main point.

WTF are you talking about Gaara endurence vs SM narutos endurence? Now youve changed the subject to naruto endurence, why?
Allot of us already explained this to you multiple times. SM Naruto took the impact of a giant rhino while Gaara using sand armor is knocked off his feet by simple punches & kicks. This means that Naruto's chakra aura grants him a more effective defensive shield when compared to Gaara's sand armor. It's really not that hard to understand. This is the actual subject because we're saying that Lee's weak arse hits wouldn't do shit to SM Naruto if he couldn't even take down a weak version of Gaara with them.

And naruto never dodged any sand attacks like sasuke and Lee so your just assuming, but its manga fact naruto back then is slow as crap so its far more likly he wouldve been caught then crushed.
Actually I'm not because K0N is faster than Sasuke & Lee without weights(reference his fight with Neji & his fight with Sasuke at VOTE) which means he can dodge sand attacks you moron. By the time of the chunin exams Naruto is already able to enter this state. Note I said basic sand attacks as in the one's used in his normal form early in the manga.


Lol, what? Narutos arura helps him offensively, but its narutos density that helps him defensiely. See, there you go and say naruto arura is more effective defensively than Gaara sand armor which is just BS. Seriously man, you just pulled that one out of your ass. Stay on topic!

Countered, lol.
Again giant rhino stopped mid charge this is a clear sign of enhanced durability. Another sign of enhanced durability is when he fell into spikes while taking in sage chakra. How many fucking times do we need to go over this? SM grants Naruto defensive abilities as well as offensive. Your counter fails go re-read the manga.


Fails lol, at least I dont make shit up like naruto Arura is supririor to Gaara sand armor, lol. And you better run!:D.
Prove me wrong. I've giving you multiple examples of why this is the case yet you can't really come up with a single counter that is half way intelligent.

Vengeance
06-12-2009, 06:20 PM
Please, enlighten me and the rest of the forum as to how naruto with some wind training surpassed Hebi sasuke, lol.
Keeping this short as I've said this to many times.

1. In the beginning of part two Naruto was on a level close to Kakashi. This was shown when Sakura & Naruto fought Kakashi to test their abilities.

2. Naruto is able to summon all toads after his training with Jiraiya while Sasuke lost Manda. Giving Naruto the summon advantage.

3. Naruto was trained in how to dispel genjutsu & knows how to fight against sharingan genjutsu. This was mentioned twice in the manga. Once against 30% Itachi & another against Itachi's shadow clone. Note Sasuke can not cast genjutsu with a finger nor can he create a crow bushin to trap with sharingan.

4. When Naruto finally caught up with Sasuke he was already badly injured due to his transformation into a 4 tailed state against Orochimaru. Naruto was unfit to fight at this time which makes this an unfair assessment in the differences in their abilities.

5. Sasuke holds chakra back to contain Orochimaru. Sasuke's CS burns his chakra at a faster rate. Naruto has Kyuubi which grants him an almost limitless supply of chakra.

6. Naruto's wind training was in preparation to fight Akatsuki level opponents. Which means once the training was complete Naruto would be considered a Kage level shinobi.

7. Naruto gained stamina through the intense training that he took & gained a higher understanding in how to manipulate his chakra.

8. Naruto can shoot wind gust from his hands without hand signs which can be used in combat (stated by Kakashi); these same wind gust can be used to counter Sasuke's raiton attacks.

9. Fuuton Rasengan (not Shuriken) is enough to overpower Sasuke's strongest raiton attacks with the exception of Kirin.

10. Naruto's new found strategy of using clones to gather information is a good way to gage your opponents speed which allows you to anticipate their maneuverability. If Naruto can get Sasuke's timing down he'll be able to properly counter. You as a martial artist should understand this concept.

11. Sasuke's Katon sucks & always has.

12. Kirin needs preparation. When used against Itachi Sasuke had Amaterasu flames heating up the atmosphere & had to shoot a large portion of his chakra into the sky. Sasuke may not be able to use this jutsu without Amaterasu flames. Don’t give me that bullshit about when he fought team 7 because Sasuke wasn’t going to use Kirin. There were no clouds in sight which would have made it impossible to manipulate natural lightning. Sasuke also needs to get cover before using this jutsu or else he'd kill himself while using it. Which means all Naruto really needs to do to avoid this is stay close to Sasuke. Don't believe me than re-read that fight & note when Sasuke jumps on top of the stone thing to get distance away from Itachi. Let's also not forget about an umbrella Rasenshuriken done by a clone to stop the attack.

13. Rasenshuriken can be used by clones to negate the negative effects on his own body.

14. Naruto defeated Kakazu who is an ancient Kage level shinobi, a shinobi that could very well have been better then Itachi.

Edit
How do you know that? Gara's sand armor endured punches from gated Lee. What did Naruto's chakra aura endure so far? Falling down from some height into sharp rocks, something I am sure Gara's sand armor would endure since it endured getting slamed into the ground from some height by gated Lee. What else? Getting punched by Deva realm. Gara was getting kicked around by gated Lee. So you just decided that Yahiko's punch is stronger than gated Lee's kicks ha ?
Read some of my newer post in this thread in regards to your questions. Gated Lee's attacks aren't actually that strong.

PS: Moron Naruto was actually blocking those hits & Diva attacked with punches when Naruto was out of Sage Mode 433-4 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=433&p=4).

PPS: Anyway I need to go home & pack I've got an early flight tomorrow.

Myth
06-12-2009, 07:45 PM
u actually come back nd reply to all of that? WOW!!!!!!!!

did i mention a week later lee still sucks

superninja
06-12-2009, 08:22 PM
Read some of my newer post in this thread in regards to your questions. Gated Lee's attacks aren't actually that strong.

PS: Moron Naruto was actually blocking those hits & Diva attacked with punches when Naruto was out of Sage Mode 433-4 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=433&p=4).


Ups, I was thinking about this punch : http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=434&p=14, it was HG punching while Yahiko was pulling in sage Naruto, so it was a combo punch. Then after that Naruto says "this doesn't hurt I'm in sage mode". But anyway, one can't say that gated Lee's punch is weaker that this one. Naruto is endurable in sage mode, but so was Gara with his multiple sand defenses. You are saying gated Lee is weak because he didn't break through all of them in a short amount of time he was in gate mode. Imagine if Lee could be in gate mode for 10 min, he would be beating Gara constantly and Gara's defense would eventually break. So Lee was not weak, he almost had the fight but had to lose for the plot's sake. I am just saying that Naruto's NE defense is not proven to be stronger than Gara's sand defense. Anyway have fun in Tokyo, don't get lost in translation.

Myth
06-12-2009, 08:40 PM
the point is lee<everyone who matters gates or without..

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-12-2009, 10:23 PM
If there alot of typos my bad I had to rush!

[QUOTE]Still didn't answer my question. How does your so called combat training (LMAO) make you an expert in fictional combat that uses magic & demons?

I was mainly refering to the nonfictional spect of naruto combat like speed, strenght, ect and tehy match up as well as terrain.

Are you talking about this 111-13 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=111&p=12)? FYI that happened when Gaara was in a normal state so VOID until proven otherwise. We're talking about Shukaku Gaara not normal Gaara.

I couldnt find it, but prove to me 1tail Gaara is dense, not soft.

Stop!!!!! So you agree that Shukaku Gaara is a superior taijutsu form when compared to normal Gaara? You do realize that is my whole point. Lee is a Tai only fighter while a superior taijutsu form would no doubt have superior strength, speed, & durability.

Durability, lol. Gaara shukaku body was soft and flexible which allowed him to propell him self at high speed using the trees.

Irrelevant to the conversation & Lee would get merced allot faster by Gaara in a 1 tailed state when compared to the version he fought. Gaara really didn't do much in his fight against Lee other than take a beating & crush his arm & leg. While Shukaku Gaara is faster than Lee without weights (Sasuke admitting that he wouldn't be able to dodge without sharingan which makes Gaara faster than Sasuke at this point 128-7 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=128&p=6)) would actually fight back & would be physically superior to Lee. Lee wouldn't stand a chance against Gaara in this form.

LMAO! !tail Gaar use only taijutsu, but Lee is an expert meaning he would do better against 1tail the he did against base.

And Gaara was moving fast by propelling himself useing his flexible soft body and the trees. However, 1 gate Lee can move faster then Gaara "prmary lotus" so hell no Gaar isnt faster.

Just like Gaara just stood there & let Lee kick the crap out of him? PnJ is a cop out comment made by people who don't actually have something intelligent to add to the conversation so your comment fails. Naruto actually saved Sasuke's arse 128-18 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=128&p=17). You act like Gaara did nothing against Naruto while these links say otherwise 132-4 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=132&p=3) 132-14 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=132&p=14) 132-15 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=132&p=15) 132-16 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=132&p=16) 132-17 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=132&p=17).

OMFG seriously? Base Gaara is mostly defensive which is why he just stands there. He has his sand shield/armor to protect him yet Lee was moving around so fast that Gaara wouldnt of been able to do anything other than stand stilll and take it, lol.

Meanwhile, naruto fought 1tail Gaara who abandons his sand sheild/armor and consentrates on defense, but Gaara still just stood there and let naruto shit kick him just as kakuzu did, as well as Deva at the end of the fight with the rasengan.

You want to talk about strategy in a rock lee fight? Show me a single manga image of something clever done by Lee that can compare to this 133-5 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=133&p=4) 133-6 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=133&p=5) 133-7 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=133&p=6). This is strategic fighting you moron not what Lee does. Notice how Naruto uses his clones to compensate for the speed difference & finds a way to get behind Gaara.

1. I never said Lee uses strategy, but because speed counters power/strength Lee had a tactical advantage.

2. OMFG you just proved you really dont understand crap about strategy. Naruto didnt plan his attack, didnt analyse his opponent ect he just summoned alot of chakra, mad a bunch if KBs and attacked. There was no planning what so ever so there was no strategy just naruto attacking head on as usual.

Remember my comment about 1 vs 1000? This isn't PnJ it's called a numbers advantage 133-16 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=133&p=15). O yeah dipshit the reason why Gaara just stood there is because he was still weakened by Naruto's paper bomb 134-4 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=134&p=3). PnJ? I think not you're just a fucking hater.

OMFG again! Naruto without planning or figuring out just happens to hit 1tail Gaara where hes the weakest, but you cant see any PNJ. Seriously?

You're the one not understanding dude but I explained everything above. The actual argument is durability not differences in styles. You really need to stop veering off track & stay to the main point.

Durability? This is about PTS 5gates Lee vs SM naruto and yes duribility plays a role, but Gaaras sand armor is still more durable then SM naruto, lol.

Allot of us already explained this to you multiple times. SM Naruto took the impact of a giant rhino while Gaara using sand armor is knocked off his feet by simple punches & kicks. This means that Naruto's chakra aura grants him a more effective defensive shield when compared to Gaara's sand armor. It's really not that hard to understand. This is the actual subject because we're saying that Lee's weak arse hits wouldn't do shit to SM Naruto if he couldn't even take down a weak version of Gaara with them.

OMFG your on a role veng! Naruto has super f-ing strength in SM which is why he could dtop the rhino, toss it in the air. It has nothing to do with an arua at all, lol. This is just Piss poor veng, seriously. How can you not tell the difference between brute strength and an arua?

Actually I'm not because K0N is faster than Sasuke & Lee without weights(reference his fight with Neji & his fight with Sasuke at VOTE) which means he can dodge sand attacks you moron. By the time of the chunin exams Naruto is already able to enter this state. Note I said basic sand attacks as in the one's used in his normal form early in the manga.

Oh really, so K0N was faster yet Herehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/206/02/
Narutos clearly K0N, but Kimimarro is just raping him whiel just out of surgery still Hurt Lee is able to compete with Kimi by matching his strength and skills. Then after alittle sake injured Lee was besting Kimimarrohttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/211/06/
Lol, Kimi had to go C1 level to regain control over the fight.

Also, Base Gaara whos supposidly weaker then 1tail almost beat kimi at C2 level when Nauro couldnt even handel base while in K0N, lol.

Again giant rhino stopped mid charge this is a clear sign of enhanced durability. Another sign of enhanced durability is when he fell into spikes while taking in sage chakra. How many fucking times do we need to go over this? SM grants Naruto defensive abilities as well as offensive. Your counter fails go re-read the manga.

Oh dear god, naruto stopped the rhino with brute strength not duribilty, aura or PNJ.

I fail? Veng, you cant tell the difference between brute strength and an aura lmao yet you cririsie me. I could tell you to read the manga again, but theres no guarentee you would understand what going to on.

Prove me wrong. I've giving you multiple examples of why this is the case yet you can't really come up with a single counter that is half way intelligent.

LMAO, Lee proved himself when he was just a genin gated. The little guy attacked Gaara with so much explsoive power that floor under him was completly annihilated. Not broken or busted up, completly annihilated. The by beating gaara and his sand armor to a pulp at speeds beyond anything ive seen kakashi do thus far.

So PTS 5gates Lee vs SM naruto. Lees speed will counter naruto brute strength/power so thats that. For just under a minute PTS gated Lee would stop naruto into the ground because naruto cant possibly defend himslef against such explosive power and SM naruto isnt even as durable as Gaara sand armor so thats that.

Myth
06-12-2009, 10:29 PM
If there alot of typos my bad I had to rush!

[QUOTE=Vengeance;1720848]

I was mainly refering to the nonfictional spect of naruto combat like speed, strenght, ect and tehy match up as well as terrain.



I couldnt find it, but prove to me 1tail Gaara is dense, not soft.



Durability, lol. Gaara shukaku body was soft and flexible which allowed him to propell him self at high speed using the trees.



LMAO! !tail Gaar use only taijutsu, but Lee is an expert meaning he would do better against 1tail the he did against base.

And Gaara was moving fast by propelling himself useing his flexible soft body and the trees. However, 1 gate Lee can move faster then Gaara "prmary lotus" so hell no Gaar isnt faster.



OMFG seriously? Base Gaara is mostly defensive which is why he just stands there. He has his sand shield/armor to protect him yet Lee was moving around so fast that Gaara wouldnt of been able to do anything other than stand stilll and take it, lol.

Meanwhile, naruto fought 1tail Gaara who abandons his sand sheild/armor and consentrates on defense, but Gaara still just stood there and let naruto shit kick him just as kakuzu did, as well as Deva at the end of the fight with the rasengan.



1. I never said Lee uses strategy, but because speed counters power/strength Lee had a tactical advantage.

2. OMFG you just proved you really dont understand crap about strategy. Naruto didnt plan his attack, didnt analyse his opponent ect he just summoned alot of chakra, mad a bunch if KBs and attacked. There was no planning what so ever so there was no strategy just naruto attacking head on as usual.



OMFG again! Naruto without planning or figuring out just happens to hit 1tail Gaara where hes the weakest, but you cant see any PNJ. Seriously?



Durability? This is about PTS 5gates Lee vs SM naruto and yes duribility plays a role, but Gaaras sand armor is still more durable then SM naruto, lol.



OMFG your on a role veng! Naruto has super f-ing strength in SM which is why he could dtop the rhino, toss it in the air. It has nothing to do with an arua at all, lol. This is just Piss poor veng, seriously. How can you not tell the difference between brute strength and an arua?



Oh really, so K0N was faster yet Herehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/206/02/
Narutos clearly K0N, but Kimimarro is just raping him whiel just out of surgery still Hurt Lee is able to compete with Kimi by matching his strength and skills. Then after alittle sake injured Lee was besting Kimimarrohttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/211/06/
Lol, Kimi had to go C1 level to regain control over the fight.

Also, Base Gaara whos supposidly weaker then 1tail almost beat kimi at C2 level when Nauro couldnt even handel base while in K0N, lol.



Oh dear god, naruto stopped the rhino with brute strength not duribilty, aura or PNJ.

I fail? Veng, you cant tell the difference between brute strength and an aura lmao yet you cririsie me. I could tell you to read the manga again, but theres no guarentee you would understand what going to on.



LMAO, Lee proved himself when he was just a genin gated. The little guy attacked Gaara with so much explsoive power that floor under him was completly annihilated. Not broken or busted up, completly annihilated. The by beating gaara and his sand armor to a pulp at speeds beyond anything ive seen kakashi do thus far.

So PTS 5gates Lee vs SM naruto. Lees speed will counter naruto brute strength/power so thats that. For just under a minute PTS gated Lee would stop naruto into the ground because naruto cant possibly defend himslef against such explosive power and SM naruto isnt even as durable as Gaara sand armor so thats that.

gates last exaclty 5-10 seconds naruto has to make clones nd lee will have wasted his power just like that...

naruto can also always summon gamabuntan nd leap thousands of feet in the air while lee's gates fade.. or he can leap himself....

either way u look at it naruto>lee ... naruto would kick lee's ass even in base form....

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-12-2009, 10:46 PM
[QUOTE=Konnaha_yellow_flash;1720943]If there alot of typos my bad I had to rush!



gates last exaclty 5-10 seconds naruto has to make clones nd lee will have wasted his power just like that...

naruto can also always summon gamabuntan nd leap thousands of feet in the air while lee's gates fade.. or he can leap himself....

either way u look at it naruto>lee ... naruto would kick lee's ass even in base form....

Yeah w/e Myth I dont trying to convince you of anything because Im sure youve already made up your mind.

And Lee used his gates alot longer then Gai did. Lee was kicking the crap out of Gaara for a while compared to Gai.

And naruto cna only summon two clones which would be gone in a fraction of a second because Lees so damn fast he will wipe them out in under a second.

Lol, naruto will summon Gamabunta because narutos so fast he cant summon faster then Lee can move.

Anything else for me to counter and throw back in your face?

NeoKakarott023
06-12-2009, 11:11 PM
I agree that Lee is no match for Naruto, or Gaara (any form), but to correct someone, Sasuke let off a Katon jutsu, which blew off the roof, and changed the weather to produce lightening that was Kirin, at the time he had no Amaretsu, it was given to him at the end of the battle with Itachi, finger poke to the forehead so it was impossible to use it in the battle vs. Itachi. Thats all I'm providing, i got beef with no one.

TheSixthHokage
06-12-2009, 11:13 PM
[QUOTE=Myth;1720946]

Yeah w/e Myth I dont trying to convince you of anything because Im sure youve already made up your mind.

And Lee used his gates alot longer then Gai did. Lee was kicking the crap out of Gaara for a while compared to Gai.

And naruto cna only summon two clones which would be gone in a fraction of a second because Lees so damn fast he will wipe them out in under a second.

Lol, naruto will summon Gamabunta because narutos so fast he cant summon faster then Lee can move.

Anything else for me to counter and throw back in your face?

And Lee's 5 gates would surpass frog kata's how? Naruto beat some of Pain's bodies with his fists alone and has the ability to sense movement.... Lee would never touch SM Naruto. Have you ever read the manga? SM > nearly every shinobi in Naruto.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-12-2009, 11:54 PM
[QUOTE]Keeping this short as I've said this to many times.

1. In the beginning of part two Naruto was on a level close to Kakashi. This was shown when Sakura & Naruto fought Kakashi to test their abilities.

Lol, naruto and sakura couldnt touch kakashi yet he was close? No, nejis was close, yamatos was close, but not naruto.

Counterted, next?

2. Naruto is able to summon all toads after his training with Jiraiya while Sasuke lost Manda. Giving Naruto the summon advantage.

Naruto showed once he can summon gamabuta in battle without accidently summoning something else "not including the kyuubi jice summoning". So, wheres your proof that narutos summonign skills are any better.

And sasuke can still summon snakes at will and most of all use genjutsu on any boss frogs naruto might summon and have them attack naruto so no.

Countered, next?

3. Naruto was trained in how to dispel genjutsu & knows how to fight against sharingan genjutsu. This was mentioned twice in the manga. Once against 30% Itachi & another against Itachi's shadow clone. Note Sasuke can not cast genjutsu with a finger nor can he create a crow bushin to trap with sharingan.

Lol, narutos never fought a real battle and showed he cant get caught because itachi caught him even when he was prepared. Lol, what Crow SG genjustu are you talking about?

Most of all sasuke could force naruto to look in his eyes in a taijutsu fight or could cast SG gen from far away where narutos not even aware hes looking in his eyes like sasuke did against deidara herehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/360/15/
Look how far away sasuke was when he cast ithttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/360/06/

Countered, next?

4. When Naruto finally caught up with Sasuke he was already badly injured due to his transformation into a 4 tailed state against Orochimaru. Naruto was unfit to fight at this time which makes this an unfair assessment in the differences in their abilities.

I agree naruto wasnt at his best but the fact that sasuke wasnt even trying while pwning naruto, sai and yamato just proves the difference in power, skill ect.

Countered, next?

5. Sasuke holds chakra back to contain Orochimaru. Sasuke's CS burns his chakra at a faster rate. Naruto has Kyuubi which grants him an almost limitless supply of chakra.

Lol, CS increases his chakra supply greatly even though it forces chakra out. And sasuke already proved he can just surpress the kyuubi so that fail but you already knew that.

Countered, next?

6. Naruto's wind training was in preparation to fight Akatsuki level opponents. Which means once the training was complete Naruto would be considered a Kage level shinobi.

OMFG are you serious? You critisie me yet you just shit a tird even myth would have trouble shitting.

Naruto went through elemental training to get strong enough to save sasuke before Oro took over his body. Nowhere did kakashi say this training was to prepare him for akatsuki because that was Jmans training purpose.

Proofhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/311/17/
Heres a page of the chapter where kakashi and naruto plan to get strong enough to bring sasuke back.

Countered even though it was absolute BS, next?

7. Naruto gained stamina through the intense training that he took & gained a higher understanding in how to manipulate his chakra.

So, naruto learned how to manipulate his chakra which sasuke as a genin could do.

What proof do you have naruto stamina went up?

Next?

8. Naruto can shoot wind gust from his hands without hand signs which can be used in combat (stated by Kakashi); these same wind gust can be used to counter Sasuke's raiton attacks.

Naruto shot one gust when he and yamato showed up to save kakashi, chouji and ino. However, naruto hasnt shown that he can use this gust in battle, just in cobination of something.

And how is a simple wind gust going to stop a super fast chidoi attack, a sanky chidori lance which naruto doesnt even know about or any of the other raiton jutsu unless sasuke lets naruto know theyre coming? Lol, narutos only used wind in combination with either FRS or yamatos water that time, but never alone or in battle so that crap doesnt count just more assumtions.

Countered, next?

9. Fuuton Rasengan (not Shuriken) is enough to overpower Sasuke's strongest raiton attacks with the exception of Kirin.

Fuuton rasengan is a point blank attack like the regular rasengan yet he cant even land that crap while sasuke has mid and long range raiton he can use.

Countered, next?

10. Naruto's new found strategy of using clones to gather information is a good way to gage your opponents speed which allows you to anticipate their maneuverability. If Naruto can get Sasuke's timing down he'll be able to properly counter. You as a martial artist should understand this concept.

I completely understand that naruto has never shown such technical skill to do what you say. However, thats what sasuke did against K0N when they fought at the valley of end so its canon sasuke has that skill.

And naruto using his KBs to gather info isnt a strategy its a tactic. Lol, I thought you read the art of war? And naruto with some info isnt going to be able to predict sasukes movements because hes too damn fast.

Countered, next?

11. Sasuke's Katon sucks & always has.

Lol, sasuke basic fire ball almost turned itachi into a crispy critter, but his arm was fried. And sasuke so called pathetic kanton can negate naruto FR because it has wind in it. Lol, how could you miss that veng?

Feeling sorry for you now, next?

12. Kirin needs preparation. When used against Itachi Sasuke had Amaterasu flames heating up the atmosphere & had to shoot a large portion of his chakra into the sky. Sasuke may not be able to use this jutsu without Amaterasu flames. Don’t give me that bullshit about when he fought team 7 because Sasuke wasn’t going to use Kirin. There were no clouds in sight which would have made it impossible to manipulate natural lightning. Sasuke also needs to get cover before using this jutsu or else he'd kill himself while using it. Which means all Naruto really needs to do to avoid this is stay close to Sasuke. Don't believe me than re-read that fight & note when Sasuke jumps on top of the stone thing to get distance away from Itachi. Let's also not forget about an umbrella Rasenshuriken done by a clone to stop the attack.

Sasuke was going to use kirin with pure chakra. Hell Oro ne what was going to happen and stopped him so dont say he wasnt going to use Kirin because the only difference is sasuke didnt need to use any chakra when he used Kirin against Itachi because there was already storm clouds around.

And wtf? You act as though naruto know what sasukes doing with his hand in the air, lol. Naruto would be murderd and you know it.

And are you slow? Thinking that the RS could stop Kirin which is a freaking Lightning bolt 1000 times the size of any chidori attack so hell no, just no.

Sigh, this is too easy. Next?

13. Rasenshuriken can be used by clones to negate the negative effects on his own body.

Im soory but when has naruto used a clone with the FR? If that was true then tsunade wouldnt have forbiden naruto to use it.

14. Naruto defeated Kakazu who is an ancient Kage level shinobi, a shinobi that could very well have been better then Itachi.

OMFG this one takes the cake! Naruto shows up and beats kakuzu afre hes already lost two heart including his earth element I.E. his Iron skin which wouldve stopped narutos attack because only raiton can get through earth element dense stuff.

And kakuzu better then itachi is just LMFAOWROTFAPM!

Xicidal
06-13-2009, 01:46 AM
Lol, naruto and sakura couldnt touch kakashi yet he was close? No, nejis was close, yamatos was close, but not naruto.

Counterted, next?

*all they had to do was keep pressuring him tell he out tired. It was hinted at.


And sasuke can still summon snakes at will and most of all use genjutsu on any boss frogs naruto might summon and have them attack naruto so no.

Countered, next?

*If he is using genjustsu on a boss frog then how is he going to defend himself against other frogs or naruto?


Lol, narutos never fought a real battle and showed he cant get caught because itachi caught him even when he was prepared. Lol, what Crow SG genjustu are you talking about?

lol... you need to read the manga again.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/366/05/

Most of all sasuke could force naruto to look in his eyes in a taijutsu fight or could cast SG gen from far away where narutos not even aware hes looking in his eyes like sasuke did against deidara herehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/360/15/
Look how far away sasuke was when he cast ithttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/360/06/

Countered, next?

*You honestly think Kyubi would just let naruto be stuck in a genjutsu?
you can't exactly be suppressing the kyubi with genjustsu if your busy with someone else. I never seen in the manga where someone could caste multiple genjustsu on different beings at the same time.


I agree naruto wasn't at his best but the fact that sasuke wasnt even trying while pwning naruto, sai and yamato just proves the difference in power, skill ect.

Countered, next?

Yamato and sai were hardly being pushed to there limits.

What proof do you have naruto stamina went up?

Next?

*Naruto's stanima is godly already so does it matter if it goes up any more?
Plus i think its pretty well known that training increase your stamina in naruto.

Naruto shot one gust when he and yamato showed up to save kakashi, chouji and ino. However, naruto hasnt shown that he can use this gust in battle, just in cobination of something.

*when he used that gust is during a battle. If he can use it in combination which is probably harder then not then i don't see way he wouldn't be able to use it on his own.

And how is a simple wind gust going to stop a super fast chidoi attack, a sanky chidori lance which naruto doesnt even know about or any of the other raiton jutsu unless sasuke lets naruto know theyre coming? Lol, narutos only used wind in combination with either FRS or yamatos water that time, but never alone or in battle so that crap doesnt count just more assumtions.

Countered, next?

*It has elemental advantage see the Diedra fight. I'm sure it could defuse the lighting, or change its directions.

I completely understand that naruto has never shown such technical skill to do what you say. However, thats what sasuke did against K0N when they fought at the valley of end so its canon sasuke has that skill.

*Not really he used sharigun and CS and etc to save his ass.

And naruto using his KBs to gather info isnt a strategy its a tactic. Lol, I thought you read the art of war? And naruto with some info isnt going to be able to predict sasukes movements because hes too damn fast.

Countered, next?

*The whole point of getting info is so you can synthesis it into a affective strategy... It worked on Kazku.


Lol, sasuke basic fire ball almost turned itachi into a crispy critter, but his arm was fried. And sasuke so called pathetic kanton can negate naruto FR because it has wind in it. Lol, how could you miss that veng?

Feeling sorry for you now, next?

*That's assuming that he is using katon all the time. Plus if the attack is strong enough it can still over power it. The Katon jutsu have to hit as well.


Sasuke was going to use kirin with pure chakra. Hell Oro ne what was going to happen and stopped him so dont say he wasnt going to use Kirin because the only difference is sasuke didnt need to use any chakra when he used Kirin against Itachi because there was already storm clouds around.

*Thats just an assumptions. He very well could have been meaning to use another justsu, he has more then one. I not fact that he was going to, but what is a fact is:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/391/04/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/391/05/
this page states that no human could normally produce it with there own chakra.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/391/07/
says what the power source is.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/391/09/
and that could have been a clone.


And wtf? You act as though naruto know what sasukes doing with his hand in the air, lol. Naruto would be murderd and you know it.

And are you slow? Thinking that the RS could stop Kirin which is a freaking Lightning bolt 1000 times the size of any chidori attack so hell no, just no.

Sigh, this is too easy. Next?


*Naruto is sage mode is tapping into the same energies as sasuke does with kirin. I so no reason RS can't have more chakras in it. Plus Rasagen normal is far more destructive then a normal chidori. If you already had RS going it wouldn't matter. Kirin also has prep time to begin with.


Im soory but when has naruto used a clone with the FR? If that was true then tsunade wouldnt have forbiden naruto to use it.

*http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/341/007/
honestly the second time we seen the move it was with a shadow clone.


OMFG this one takes the cake! Naruto shows up and beats kakuzu afre hes already lost two heart including his earth element I.E. his Iron skin which wouldve stopped narutos attack because only raiton can get through earth element dense stuff.

*Sure... you don't know that for a fact? Got any prof?

And kakuzu better then itachi is just LMFAOWROTFAPM!

Dude you really need to develop better reading and visual comprehensive skills, or memorization. Sometimes it seems like you pull alot shit out of your ass. It might at least help to go make sure you right before making a statement.
In one of the other posts you made you claimed Shukuku Gara only used taijutsu, well you better take another glance.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/132/15/

Myth
06-13-2009, 02:22 AM
KYF ur wrong just stop nd quit everyone disagrees with u for a reason this what makes em laugh ur wrong nd u still go on way past the point of stopping.
Lee would be killled before he can use his gates nd even if he can use his gates they wouldn't matter since naruto's durability speed nd healing from sm nd kyuubi will take care of any damage...

All naruto has to do is leap a thousand feet in the air nd wait for lee's gates to run out assuming he lets lee get into gate mode which he wouldn't. NOT THAT IT WOULD EVEN MATTER.
Saying lee can beat naruto is saying he can beat sasuke jiriaya and the rest of akatsuki.. guess what it ain't happening..

Vengeance
06-13-2009, 02:48 AM
Before I begin I'd just like to ask you to learn how to quote a post properly you've got others miss quoting because you're putting in an extra . It's really not a hard thing to do.

[QUOTE=Konnaha_yellow_flash;1720943]I was mainly refering to the nonfictional spect of naruto combat like speed, strenght, ect and tehy match up as well as terrain.
You also need to take into account the magical & demonic aspects of the manga when analyzing combat for a fictional story. The combat in this manga is in no way shape or form realistic.

Eyes that allow somone to see points of energy on a body?

Eyes that can sense energy & track muscle movement?

Taping into your bodies energy to "brake a magical seal" by screaming?

Demonic energies living inside of small children?

The ability to manipulate sand with your mind?

Spitting out fire?

Walking on water?

Moving at superhuman speeds?

How are any of these things remotely realistic & relate to real time combat situations? Are you a Meta-Human who secretly fights super villains for a living?

I couldnt find it, but prove to me 1tail Gaara is dense, not soft.
You couldn't find it because it didn't happen. You gave reference to an event that never took place in the actual fight I was referring to which means your statement is still VOID.

It's simple really Gaara is tapping into demonic energies & not simply redistributing the way he uses his normal chakra. He's entering a beast form that increases his speed, strength, & durability/endurance. Just take a look at any jinchuuriki that taps into their beast. But if you want examples fine.

1. Soft objects can not cause this much damage 127-5 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=127&p=5).

2. Gaara taking a Chidori hit & not passing out 127-17 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=127&p=17)

3. Again soft objects can't brake tree's so easily 128-5 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=128&p=5).

4. Gaara running through a Katon 128-7 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=128&p=7).

5. Gaara took yet another Chidori hit in the same fight 128-15 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=128&p=15).

I'll stop here for now sense the two Chidori hits pretty much says it all. In a normal state Gaara passed out after one Chirodi strike while in a demonic state Gaara was not only able to handle two Chidori but also kept fighting & took many more hits besides those. There you go increased durability & endurance Ron.

Durability, lol. Gaara shukaku body was soft and flexible which allowed him to propell him self at high speed using the trees.
Yet he was able to take more damage as stated above as well as cause damage by simply using physical attacks.


LMAO! !tail Gaar use only taijutsu, but Lee is an expert meaning he would do better against 1tail the he did against base.
Wrong Gaara can take more damage in his beast form. Please read above.

And Gaara was moving fast by propelling himself useing his flexible soft body and the trees. However, 1 gate Lee can move faster then Gaara "prmary lotus" so hell no Gaar isnt faster.
What are you fucking stupid or something? I said Lee without weights as in no gates. Gaara in a tailed state is faster than this version of Lee because Gaara in this state is faster then Sasuke. Gaara doesn't need to be faster than a gated lee the point is that unlike before he'd be moving around & fighting back which would make him a harder target when compared to his normal state where he wasn't moving at all.

Gaara used his body to propel his speed some of the time but not all of his movement was done in this manner 127-12 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=127&p=12) 128-13 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=128&p=13) 128-16 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=128&p=16) 129-6 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=129&p=6).

OMFG seriously? Base Gaara is mostly defensive which is why he just stands there. He has his sand shield/armor to protect him yet Lee was moving around so fast that Gaara wouldnt of been able to do anything other than stand stilll and take it, lol.
Gaara has less chakra to work with in a normal state & you're ignoring common knowledge such as the enhanced abilities one gains when tapping into demonic chakra. I mean really do you even read this manga or just look at the pictures? Please read above I went over this already.

Vengeance
06-13-2009, 02:54 AM
Meanwhile, naruto fought 1tail Gaara who abandons his sand sheild/armor and consentrates on defense, but Gaara still just stood there and let naruto shit kick him just as kakuzu did, as well as Deva at the end of the fight with the rasengan.
He's not abandoning anything. Gaara is covering his body in thick layers of sand & is able to attack from close-mid range with his sand in multiple directions & use fuuton jutsu. I showed images of this crap already re-read the manga dude your comments on Kakazu & Pain are making you come off as just another Naruto hater. They have nothing to do with this argument so stop trying to get me talking about an entirely different topic.


1. I never said Lee uses strategy, but because speed counters power/strength Lee had a tactical advantage.
You keep mentioning strategy as if that factors into a DBZ type of fighter like Lee which is why I mentioned that earlier. You also need to factor in the magic differences & drawbacks of Lee's gates. Gaara & SM Naruto both have magical abilities that go against real time fighting & strategic thinking. This is what it comes down to. Lee is strong & fast yes but burns out quickly.

In boxing it's unwise to burn yourself out in the first few rounds of the fight. Just ask George Foreman or Mikey Tyson. However boxers like Mayweather (39-0 25KOs) can fight well in the later rounds because they pace themselves & let their opponents tire themselves out. If you want to look at this fictional story as realistic then take real time fighting methods into consideration. The boxer that burns himself out within the first few rounds of a fight is more likely to lose than the boxer who paces himself. This is a fact of life & has been proven time & time again.

2. OMFG you just proved you really dont understand crap about strategy. Naruto didnt plan his attack, didnt analyse his opponent ect he just summoned alot of chakra, mad a bunch if KBs and attacked. There was no planning what so ever so there was no strategy just naruto attacking head on as usual.
Actually Naruto planed to get behind Gaara from the moment he wrapped a kunai in a paper bomb. Naruto first used his clones to get over Gaara's attack while simultaneously getting around Gaara's speed to close the gap between them. He then created another clone to dodge a second attack. Then he created another clone to use as a stepping stone to strike Gaara in his sand covered arse.

The analyzing was done earlier when Naruto was getting his shit rocked. Naruto's quick thinking & reaction skills allowed him to dodge all those attacks so he could get in close to Gaara. Naruto's strategy here is to get in close by using clones to help dodge attacks while putting himself in a position to strike Gaara with the paper bomb kunai. Naruto's strategy obviously worked as he was able to do it. You're just hating at this point & it's rather pathetic.


OMFG again! Naruto without planning or figuring out just happens to hit 1tail Gaara where hes the weakest, but you cant see any PNJ. Seriously?
Again Naruto's plan was to stick Gaara with a paper bomb kunai & it worked. You're just hating.

Durability? This is about PTS 5gates Lee vs SM naruto and yes duribility plays a role, but Gaaras sand armor is still more durable then SM naruto, lol.
Actually it's not as mentioned before Gaara was getting knocked around by normal punches & kicks while Naruto broke stone spikes by landing on them with his body & took the impact of a giant charging rhino.

OMFG your on a role veng! Naruto has super f-ing strength in SM which is why he could dtop the rhino, toss it in the air. It has nothing to do with an arua at all, lol. This is just Piss poor veng, seriously. How can you not tell the difference between brute strength and an arua?
418-5 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=418&p=5) Again Naruto's chakra aura protects him from physical damage. Go re-read the manga hater.

Oh really, so K0N was faster yet Herehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/206/02/
Narutos clearly K0N, but Kimimarro is just raping him whiel just out of surgery still Hurt Lee is able to compete with Kimi by matching his strength and skills. Then after alittle sake injured Lee was besting Kimimarrohttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/211/06/
Lol, Kimi had to go C1 level to regain control over the fight.
Actually Naruto's clones got rapped Naruto himself didn't do any real fighting against Kimi. We all know Naruto spammed clones that got beat up back then that's just the way it is.

However this is the real reason why K0N Naruto is faster then Lee without weights 229-3 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/229/03/), 229-6 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/229/06/), 229-8 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/229/08/). Naruto is clearly faster than Sasuke at this point. Sasuke needed 3 tomoe before he could keep track of Naruto's movements in a K0N state 229-18 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/229/18/). It's stated in the manga that Sasuke during the chunin exam finals is equal to Lee without weights.

You fail on the Lee section because your photo is that of drunken Lee not a normal Lee. Lee in this state can not access gates because he's unable to concentrate. So if you want to start using this Lee against SM Naruto it would be a very dumb move on your part. Let's take a look at how sober Lee did. Lee calls timeout LMAO 210-15 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/210/15/).

Also, Base Gaara whos supposidly weaker then 1tail almost beat kimi at C2 level when Nauro couldnt even handel base while in K0N, lol.
You're a fucking moron you know that. Gaara when he fought Kimi was in control of his power & stronger then previously shown in the manga. At this point Lee wouldn't have stood a chance in hell against Gaara. What Lee fought back then was the weakest version we've ever seen of Gaara. This is a fucking fact if you don't like well to fucking bad.


Oh dear god, naruto stopped the rhino with brute strength not duribilty, aura or PNJ.
Read above I'm tired of repeating myself.

I fail? Veng, you cant tell the difference between brute strength and an aura lmao yet you cririsie me. I could tell you to read the manga again, but theres no guarentee you would understand what going to on.
Read above I'm tired of repeating myself.

LMAO, Lee proved himself when he was just a genin gated. The little guy attacked Gaara with so much explsoive power that floor under him was completly annihilated. Not broken or busted up, completly annihilated. The by beating gaara and his sand armor to a pulp at speeds beyond anything ive seen kakashi do thus far.
Lee lost his fight & became a cripple. What exactly did he prove? Gaara got up & was fucking fine. No marks on his body nor drawn blood. Now your just talking shit Kakashi would merc that version of Gaara is fucking seconds you retard.

So PTS 5gates Lee vs SM naruto. Lees speed will counter naruto brute strength/power so thats that. For just under a minute PTS gated Lee would stop naruto into the ground because naruto cant possibly defend himslef against such explosive power and SM naruto isnt even as durable as Gaara sand armor so thats that.
Actually you still fail with Naruto's durability. Also like I've been saying Naruto would not be a simple stationary target like Gaara was. Lee would ware himself out while doing very little damage (if any) to Naruto in SM. My points been made & I'm sure most in here agree with my case anyway. You're just another rabid fan of a mediocre character.

Vengeance
06-13-2009, 05:01 AM
PS: Learn how to properly quote.


Lol, naruto and sakura couldnt touch kakashi yet he was close? No, nejis was close, yamatos was close, but not naruto.

Counterted, next?
This shows otherwise 246-5 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/246/05/), 246-6 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/246/06/), 246-7 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/246/07/), 246-8 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/246/08/).

PS: In the beginning of part two Neji isn't even in Naruto's league. Yamato is pretty random of you?? Yamato is up to par with Kakashi with LMAO.

Naruto showed once he can summon gamabuta in battle without accidently summoning something else "not including the kyuubi jice summoning". So, wheres your proof that narutos summonign skills are any better.
From Data Book 3: Naruto can summon any and every toad he wants, as he signed a contract with the chief toad. Source (http://forums.narutocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1578582&postcount=2)


And sasuke can still summon snakes at will and most of all use genjutsu on any boss frogs naruto might summon and have them attack naruto so no.

Countered, next?
Because of his massive chakra supply Naruto could summon more than one boss toad on his own. Also he could simply order Bunta to close his eyes & tell him where to strike. Better yet Bunta can jump into the air & spam his water cannon killing Sasuke in one strike. Another thing you're forgetting is that Sasuke leaves himself open for an attack if he were to cast a genjutsu on bunta. Sasuke doesn't have snakes large enough to handle bunta or any of the boss toads for that matter. Also Naruto as a genin was taking out giant snakes on his own LMAO.

Lol, narutos never fought a real battle and showed he cant get caught because itachi caught him even when he was prepared. Lol, what Crow SG genjustu are you talking about?
I already explained this. Itachi is more talented at genjutsu than Sasuke. The first time Naruto was caught it was because the genjutsu was cast by Itachi's finger. Sasuke can not do this. Not once did he look into Itachi's eyes.

About the crow: Pay attention because this is the last time I'm going to look this up for you. This is Itachi crow-bushin jutsu 366-5 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/366/05/). This is a ninjutsu not a genjutsu. This is the sharingan eye that was in the crow which then cast a genjutsu on Naruto 366-06 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/366/06/). FYI Sasuke doesn't know how to do this ether.

Most of all sasuke could force naruto to look in his eyes in a taijutsu fight or could cast SG gen from far away where narutos not even aware hes looking in his eyes like sasuke did against deidara herehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/360/15/
Look how far away sasuke was when he cast ithttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/360/06/

Countered, next?
"Because with me my numbers can be anywhere from 1 to 1000!" 366-3 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/366/03/). Naruto stating himself a strategy around genjutsu. Your opponent can't cast it if he doesn't know which one is the real one. O & yeah we also see Naruto going over the basics of sharingan genjutsu. So sorry Naruto is fully aware of how to not get caught by this shit. Your point on casting genjutsu from far is nonsense dude my manga panel says otherwise.


I agree naruto wasnt at his best but the fact that sasuke wasnt even trying while pwning naruto, sai and yamato just proves the difference in power, skill ect.

Countered, next?
It proves nothing Naruto was fainting while they were in Orochimaru's hideout 304-13 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/304/13/) & 304-14 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/304/14/). He was in no condition to fight Sasuke. Naruto was basically running on empty when they got there. Yamato wasn't serious when Sasuke caught him 309-13 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/309/13/), Naruto was on empty & didn't even do anything in this fake fight, while Sakura & Sai suck. This encounter really doesn't prove anything.


Lol, CS increases his chakra supply greatly even though it forces chakra out. And sasuke already proved he can just surpress the kyuubi so that fail but you already knew that.

Countered, next?
Wrong CS drains his chakra faster by using more up to enhance his abilities. Re-read the fucking manga tard. Actually I don't because Sasuke would need to actually cast a genjutsu to enter Naruto's mind in order for that to happen. read above in regards to genjutsu & no I'm not using tailed stated just K0N.


OMFG are you serious? You critisie me yet you just shit a tird even myth would have trouble shitting.

Proofhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/311/17/
Heres a page of the chapter where kakashi and naruto plan to get strong enough to bring sasuke back

Naruto went through elemental training to get strong enough to save sasuke before Oro took over his body. Nowhere did kakashi say this training was to prepare him for akatsuki because that was Jmans training purpose.


Countered even though it was absolute BS, next?
LMAO do you want to know why you fail? 311-16 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/311/16/). This whole conversation is geared towards Naruto becoming stronger then Sasuke due to Kakashi's bright training idea.

Tsunade stated that Naruto can not come along unless he completed the jutsu. This was in regards to the two Akatsuki that killed Asuma. Yamato felt that Naruto's was ready so he was allowed to meet up with Kakashi's group against 2 of Akatsuki. So my original point still stands :).


So, naruto learned how to manipulate his chakra which sasuke as a genin could do.

What proof do you have naruto stamina went up?

Next?
Naruto gained years of experience as well as a workout from only a few days training. When you push your body to it's limit if you're not causing yourself serious injury you'll only get stronger & be able to do it better the next time once rested. It started with a simple leaf slice while at the end of his training all night constantly manipulating wind chakra. Yamato even goes to sleep yet Naruto has the reserves to continue on. This is what I meant by stamina increase this is shown during his training process.

Vengeance
06-13-2009, 05:10 AM
Naruto shot one gust when he and yamato showed up to save kakashi, chouji and ino. However, naruto hasnt shown that he can use this gust in battle, just in cobination of something
"And if you clear this stage, then if nothing else it means you can use it in combat" 318-10 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/318/10/). Stated in the manga by Kakashi which makes it cannon.

And how is a simple wind gust going to stop a super fast chidoi attack, a sanky chidori lance which naruto doesnt even know about or any of the other raiton jutsu unless sasuke lets naruto know theyre coming? Lol, narutos only used wind in combination with either FRS or yamatos water that time, but never alone or in battle so that crap doesnt count just more assumtions.

Countered, next?
Fuuton pwnz Raiton re-read the manga. Naruto has more chakra then Sasuke which means he can create gust that would be stronger than Sasuke's raiton attacks. pure more chakra into the jutsu for a larger more effective result.

Fuuton rasengan is a point blank attack like the regular rasengan yet he cant even land that crap while sasuke has mid and long range raiton he can use.

Countered, next?
Sasuke's most powerful Raiton attack (besides Kirin) is a close range chidori. If Sasuke tried pulling that clashing crap that they did in part one Naruto's Fuuton Rasengan would overpower Sasuke's chidori. Fuuton Rasengan can also be used to simply block attacks.

As for a gap Sasuke likes to fight a close range. Remember the retard kept rushing KB even though he was mainly a tai fighter. Sasuke also kept trying to get close to Diedara. Yes Sasuke has mid-long range jutsu however at that range Naruto could easily avoid & even block these attacks because he'll see them coming.

I completely understand that naruto has never shown such technical skill to do what you say. However, thats what sasuke did against K0N when they fought at the valley of end so its canon sasuke has that skill.
Actually Naruto did that against Kakazu re-read the manga.

And naruto using his KBs to gather info isnt a strategy its a tactic. Lol, I thought you read the art of war? And naruto with some info isnt going to be able to predict sasukes movements because hes too damn fast.

Countered, next?
Your counter is he's to damn fast that's pretty fucking weak. What do you actually have to compare the speed between these two fighters? Oooo... that's right nothing.

Lol, sasuke basic fire ball almost turned itachi into a crispy critter, but his arm was fried. And sasuke so called pathetic kanton can negate naruto FR because it has wind in it. Lol, how could you miss that veng?

Feeling sorry for you now, next?
Yet Naruto is able to plow right through Katon while in a K0N state. Katon's are easily dodged as proven by Naruto himself. Face it Sasuke's katon never causes damage to anyone.

PS Naruto is fully aware about Katon pwning Fuuton which is why he'll simply dodge Sasuke's weak arse Katon.

Sasuke was going to use kirin with pure chakra. Hell Oro ne what was going to happen and stopped him so dont say he wasnt going to use Kirin because the only difference is sasuke didnt need to use any chakra when he used Kirin against Itachi because there was already storm clouds around.
Umm no he wasn't. Sasuke had no raiton in his hand & there were no clouds in sight when against team 7. Kirin is an attack that manipulates natural lightning Sasuke can't manipulate natural lightning if it isn't fucking there Ron.

What the hell are you smoking? Sasuke shoot a huge amount of his chakra using a Katon into the air to heat up the atmosphere with the aid of Amaterasu. Sasuke did fucking use chakra to create the conditions necessary to even use Kirin.

And wtf? You act as though naruto know what sasukes doing with his hand in the air, lol. Naruto would be murderd and you know it.
Zetsu & Itachi both figured it out long before Sasuke ever used the jutsu. Let's see now Sasuke just shot up a huge fireball into the air for no reason. Hrrmm... clouds are forming & Sasuke manipulates Raiton. It's pretty fucking obvious what happens next I called this shit the moment I saw clouds forming when the chapter first came out. Kirin isn't actually instant because of the prep time if you're paying attention you can figure out what's about to happen.

And are you slow? Thinking that the RS could stop Kirin which is a freaking Lightning bolt 1000 times the size of any chidori attack so hell no, just no.

Sigh, this is too easy. Next?
Yes actually it can because Fuuton pwnz Raiton & FRS is one of the most powerful attacks in the manga to date.

Im soory but when has naruto used a clone with the FR? If that was true then tsunade wouldnt have forbiden naruto to use it.
He used it against Kakazu like this. a clones created FRS as a diversion while the real one used it as well. Did you forget that Naruto's clones can use any jutsu he can because they're replica bodies with equally distributed chakra? Dude I mean really now this is cannon.

OMFG this one takes the cake! Naruto shows up and beats kakuzu afre hes already lost two heart including his earth element I.E. his Iron skin which wouldve stopped narutos attack because only raiton can get through earth element dense stuff.

And kakuzu better then itachi is just LMFAOWROTFAPM!
Injured or not Naruto still won while Sasuke had a fake fight against a dieing opponent. When you compare the two Naruto has the more creditable victory.

Kakazu is a 91 year old shinobi with vast years of experience over most in this manga. Based on his abilities Kakazu actually stands a fair chance against Itachi. But this is better left for another day.


Anyway I need to get ready to leave for Tokyo.

lamps123
06-13-2009, 05:11 AM
Yeah w/e Myth I dont trying to convince you of anything because Im sure youve already made up your mind.

And Lee used his gates alot longer then Gai did. Lee was kicking the crap out of Gaara for a while compared to Gai.

And naruto cna only summon two clones which would be gone in a fraction of a second because Lees so damn fast he will wipe them out in under a second.

Lol, naruto will summon Gamabunta because narutos so fast he cant summon faster then Lee can move.

Anything else for me to counter and throw back in your face?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/08/

Shrike
06-13-2009, 05:49 AM
Oh Christ, you are still talking about Lee vs Naruto?

KYF, you are just wrong. Can't you see? It's so easy, it's even logical.

Lee's normal speed without weights was matched by Sasuke in Part 1, since he copied it. Now base speed of Naruto Part II is > Sasuke part I.
Next we assume Lee's speed increased during the TS, so we can assume that he is a bit faster then base Naruto Part II.
5 gates Lee is a lot faster then Naruto. Now, SM Naruto gets a speed boost, enough to be faster then PAIN, who was evenly matched in speed with SM JIRAIYA. See where I am going?

You just watched anime too much. They overrated Lee's speed so it could be more fun to watch. SM Naruto is OBVIOUSLY stronger then 5 Gates Lee.

Want proof? 5 Gates Lee would suck donkey cock against Pain. In a few seconds, I might add.

Edit: You sound it like no one can even see Lee because he is just that damn fast. That's pretty funny. There are ton of shinobi would stomp him and made him part of grass easily. Every stronger shinobi gets an easy win.

Myth
06-13-2009, 11:04 AM
Oh Christ, you are still talking about Lee vs Naruto?

KYF, you are just wrong. Can't you see? It's so easy, it's even logical.

Lee's normal speed without weights was matched by Sasuke in Part 1, since he copied it. Now base speed of Naruto Part II is > Sasuke part I.
Next we assume Lee's speed increased during the TS, so we can assume that he is a bit faster then base Naruto Part II.
5 gates Lee is a lot faster then Naruto. Now, SM Naruto gets a speed boost, enough to be faster then PAIN, who was evenly matched in speed with SM JIRAIYA. See where I am going?

You just watched anime too much. They overrated Lee's speed so it could be more fun to watch. SM Naruto is OBVIOUSLY stronger then 5 Gates Lee.

Want proof? 5 Gates Lee would suck donkey cock against Pain. In a few seconds, I might add.

Edit: You sound it like no one can even see Lee because he is just that damn fast. That's pretty funny. There are ton of shinobi would stomp him and made him part of grass easily. Every stronger shinobi gets an easy win.

I'd than you another 3 times but i can't lol.... It's amazing how he can even sit there nd type that Lee could take naruto.. if lee could take naruto he can take...

Pain
Jiraiya
Itachi
Sasuke
sasori
deidara
etc
etc

since naruto can pretty much match with any of those guys nd win most likely.....

LEE SUCKS ass he can't do shit to naruto 1 punch of naruto will kill you a punch from lee will hurt you.. Naruto kyuubi chakra heals everything right away so any hit done will be healed... nd naruto's already way more durable to the point where he fell on to a spike nd said "that didn't even hurt".

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-13-2009, 04:12 PM
1721001Before I begin I'd just like to ask you to learn how to quote a post properly you've got others miss quoting because you're putting in an extra [QUOTE=Vengeance;1720848]. It's really not a hard thing to do.


You also need to take into account the magical & demonic aspects of the manga when analyzing combat for a fictional story. The combat in this manga is in no way shape or form realistic
Eyes that allow somone to see points of energy on a body?


Moving at superhuman speeds, ect ect?

Even though the speed, power, strength, endurence ect is taken to a fictional level the same rules still apply speed and endurence counters strength, anticipation with timing counters speed, Power counters endurence "a powerful attack will wear anyone down", ect ect along with other circumstances and terrain all factor in even though this is a fictional story.

How are any of these things remotely realistic & relate to real time combat situations? Are you a Meta-Human who secretly fights super villains for a living?

Sigh, you cant understand that even though these are fictional levels of abilities the same rules still apply as in nonfiction combat.

You couldn't find it because it didn't happen. You gave reference to an event that never took place in the actual fight I was referring to which means your statement is still VOID.

If your talking about my statement that 1tail gaara absorbed sasuke shurikan it did happen, but its a filler so yes, void w/e.

However, you didnt provide any proof that 1tail Gaaras body is dense.

It's simple really Gaara is tapping into demonic energies & not simply redistributing the way he uses his normal chakra. He's entering a beast form that increases his speed, strength, & durability/endurance. Just take a look at any jinchuuriki that taps into their beast. But if you want examples fine.

1. Soft objects can not cause this much damage 127-5 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=127&p=5).

2. Gaara taking a Chidori hit & not passing out 127-17 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=127&p=17)

3. Again soft objects can't brake tree's so easily 128-5 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=128&p=5).

4. Gaara running through a Katon 128-7 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=128&p=7).

5. Gaara took yet another Chidori hit in the same fight 128-15 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=128&p=15).

I'll stop here for now sense the two Chidori hits pretty much says it all. In a normal state Gaara passed out after one Chirodi strike while in a demonic state Gaara was not only able to handle two Chidori but also kept fighting & took many more hits besides those. There you go increased durability & endurance Ron.

Oh really because it was obvious that all of sasuke chidoris hit Gaara in the arm, not his chest. Meanwhile you didnt post any of the chapter where naruto fights Gaara where narutos KBs punch and kick him and his SOFT body sand id flying all over the place. Theres no cracking what so ever just proving 1tail Gaara isnt dense at all just soft like a cushin.

Yet he was able to take more damage as stated above as well as cause damage by simply using physical attacks.



Wrong Gaara can take more damage in his beast form. Please read above.

Gaara recieved chidoris to the f-ing arm and a fire ball that wouldnt hurt his base forms mere sand sheild so how is any of that proof 1tail Gaaras more dense then his base sand armor?

What are you fucking stupid or something? I said Lee without weights as in no gates. Gaara in a tailed state is faster than this version of Lee because Gaara in this state is faster then Sasuke. Gaara doesn't need to be faster than a gated lee the point is that unlike before he'd be moving around & fighting back which would make him a harder target when compared to his normal state where he wasn't moving at all.

You said Gaara is faster then Lee because he faster then sasuke and sasukes as fast as Lee. However, Lee said himself that sasuke can move as fast as him, but cant sustain it very long and seeing as how sasuke beat Gaar then chased him all over the village all on the same chakra supply with no rest its understandable if sasuke was slower then before dont you agree.\

And although 1tail Gaara is more offensesive he still stood still and let naruto stick a kunai up his ass.

Gaara used his body to propel his speed some of the time but not all of his movement was done in this manner 127-12 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=127&p=12) 128-13 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=128&p=13) 128-16 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=128&p=16) 129-6 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=129&p=6).

I know, but it was only when Gaara propelled himself from the trees that sasuke commented on how fast he is.

Gaara has less chakra to work with in a normal state & you're ignoring common knowledge such as the enhanced abilities one gains when tapping into demonic chakra. I mean really do you even read this manga or just look at the pictures? Please read above I went over this already.

Im not sure what this is in reference to so?

=Vengeance;1721002]He's not abandoning anything. Gaara is covering his body in thick layers of sand & is able to attack from close-mid range with his sand in multiple directions & use fuuton jutsu. I showed images of this crap already re-read the manga dude your comments on Kakazu & Pain are making you come off as just another Naruto hater. They have nothing to do with this argument so stop trying to get me talking about an entirely different topic.

That is part of the subject because its fact that enemies suddenly get weaker and slower and dumber when naruto fights them. Why else would Deva avoid close combat with SM naruto then just sunddenly go retarted and attack head on? Why would kakuzu suddenly bring all of his hearts in his body losing his numbers advantage when fighting naruto and three clones? Also, why would kakuzu go retarted and let naruto sneak up on him from behind as he didnt see naruto maneuver behind him, lol. Just the same story when naruto fights an enemy he cant handel.

And although 1tail Gaara has a thick layer of sand to cushin any attacks hes still alot more vulnerable defensivly.

You keep mentioning strategy as if that factors into a DBZ type of fighter like Lee which is why I mentioned that earlier. You also need to factor in the magic differences & drawbacks of Lee's gates. Gaara & SM Naruto both have magical abilities that go against real time fighting & strategic thinking. This is what it comes down to. Lee is strong & fast yes but burns out quickly.

WHat are you talking about because even Cell knew that no matter how strong you become it means nothing if you cant catch your enemy or have you forgoten what happened to uture trukn when he kept buffing up his muscles just to get raped by cells speed.

And you not understanding that thoss magical abilities just increase there basic abilites such as strength, speed, ect ect with exeption to the elemental and chakra attack stuff because thats fictional. Basic rules still aplly no matter how high and rediculous they are.

And lee only burns out fast when he uses gates. Lee can take his weights off and out last sasuke if he doesnt use more then two gates of have you forgoten about the second gate "the gate of healing" that heals Lee and gives him his second wind "sp".

In boxing it's unwise to burn yourself out in the first few rounds of the fight. Just ask George Foreman or Mikey Tyson. However boxers like Mayweather (39-0 25KOs) can fight well in the later rounds because they pace themselves & let their opponents tire themselves out. If you want to look at this fictional story as realistic then take real time fighting methods into consideration. The boxer that burns himself out within the first few rounds of a fight is more likely to lose than the boxer who paces himself. This is a fact of life & has been proven time & time again.

I agree, but read what I said above^.

Actually Naruto planed to get behind Gaara from the moment he wrapped a kunai in a paper bomb. Naruto first used his clones to get over Gaara's attack while simultaneously getting around Gaara's speed to close the gap between them. He then created another clone to dodge a second attack. Then he created another clone to use as a stepping stone to strike Gaara in his sand covered arse.

I know what happened, but wheres you proof that naruto Planned/intelligently thought up his attack other then the fact that 1000 years of death is a attack to the anus "gigity!".

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-13-2009, 04:14 PM
The analyzing was done earlier when Naruto was getting his shit rocked. Naruto's quick thinking & reaction skills allowed him to dodge all those attacks so he could get in close to Gaara. Naruto's strategy here is to get in close by using clones to help dodge attacks while putting himself in a position to strike Gaara with the paper bomb kunai. Naruto's strategy obviously worked as he was able to do it. You're just hating at this point & it's rather pathetic.

All naruto did was commnet on how being alone made Gaara stronger then changed his mind and realised his friends made him even stronger, thus attacking Gaara. No sitting back analysing the opponent, coming up with a stratey based on his strengths and weaknesses then attacking, just ahhhhh I will stop you and save sakura then attack.

Hating? Your over glorifying the hell out of naruto yet you say you dont like the guy which seems not to be the case. You act as though he uses strategy when he fights, but he only uses it every now and then.

Listen, naruto isnt a strategist! Hes a more agressive fighter who like to use his powerful jutsu to overhwelm his opponents. Then, if that fails he uses some strategy and thats how naruto fights.


Again Naruto's plan was to stick Gaara with a paper bomb kunai & it worked. You're just hating.

No doubt naruto wanted to stick gaara in the ass with an explosvie kunai, but the fact that plot made that certain spot his weakness which allowed naruto to kick the shit out of him is PNJ bull that naruto usually does. naruto didnt figure out his weak spot luck/pnj just made it so.

Actually it's not as mentioned before Gaara was getting knocked around by normal punches & kicks while Naruto broke stone spikes by landing on them with his body & took the impact of a giant charging rhino.

For the love of god Gaara doesnt have super strength which is why someone can kick him around like that.

418-5 (http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=418&p=5) Again Naruto's chakra aura protects him from physical damage. Go re-read the manga hater.

His body is more dense thanks to SM meaning his arua which only helped naruto KO HG realm wasnt involved.

Actually Naruto's clones got rapped Naruto himself didn't do any real fighting against Kimi. We all know Naruto spammed clones that got beat up back then that's just the way it is.

Quit trying to act like naruto wasnt trying because it was obvoous he was trying his ass off to get sasuke back, but Kimi was too much for his at base while naruto was K0N, manga fact!

However this is the real reason why K0N Naruto is faster then Lee without weights 229-3 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/229/03/), 229-6 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/229/06/), 229-8 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/229/08/). Naruto is clearly faster than Sasuke at this point. Sasuke needed 3 tomoe before he could keep track of Naruto's movements in a K0N state 229-18 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/229/18/). It's stated in the manga that Sasuke during the chunin exam finals is equal to Lee without weights.

Lol, that the same power naruto used to fight kimimarro yet he coudlnt compete. However, Lee showed up still injured fresh from sergury and kicked kimis ass matching his speed as well. Meaniing Lee is faster then K0N for a fact.


You fail on the Lee section because your photo is that of drunken Lee not a normal Lee. Lee in this state can not access gates because he's unable to concentrate. So if you want to start using this Lee against SM Naruto it would be a very dumb move on your part. Let's take a look at how sober Lee did. Lee calls timeout LMAO 210-15 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/210/15/).

Lol, either way Lee is fresh out of sugery, still injured and not miving as fast as he could at 100 percent, lol. Yet hes still moving faster then K0N because unlike naruto Lee although injured can Keep up with Kimimarro.

You're a fucking moron you know that. Gaara when he fought Kimi was in control of his power & stronger then previously shown in the manga. At this point Lee wouldn't have stood a chance in hell against Gaara. What Lee fought back then was the weakest version we've ever seen of Gaara. This is a fucking fact if you don't like well to fucking bad.

Gaara had one new jutsu of burying the enemy underground after using a sand tsunami. Either way Gaara proved he was far more powerful then naruto not including his new sand tsunami jutsu so if you dont like it you can suck a duck.

Lol your just mad that lee and Gaara both proved they were more talented then even K0N.

Read above I'm tired of repeating myself.


Read above I'm tired of repeating myself.


Lee lost his fight & became a cripple. What exactly did he prove? Gaara got up & was fucking fine. No marks on his body nor drawn blood. Now your just talking shit Kakashi would merc that version of Gaara is fucking seconds you retard.

1. If Gaara had a mark on his body we wouldnt see it because he covers his body in sand remember "sand armor!" Seriously, if Gaara was jutsu fine then why didnt he get up and to attacl Lee after his final FL 5gates attack? Gaara was just laying there in pain using only one arm to attack Lee with some sand that just creeped up because clearly Gaara was hurt.

2. Gaara shoulder injury from sasukes chidori healed in a matter of 20 or 30 minutes remember. When Gaara woke up to fight sasuke again his injury was healed so obviously his bijuu has some kind of healing powers as well.

Actually you still fail with Naruto's durability. Also like I've been saying Naruto would not be a simple stationary target like Gaara was. Lee would ware himself out while doing very little damage (if any) to Naruto in SM. My points been made & I'm sure most in here agree with my case anyway. You're just another rabid fan of a mediocre character.

Its true SM naruto wouldnt just stand there, but what could he do exactly? Create two KBs then get them and himself pwned for about 30 seconds because naruto couldnt possibly be able to react much less defend himself against someone moving so fast and maneuvering so fast.

Seriously, remember when Lee was kicking around Gaara like a soccer ball. It looked like there was five of them but there was only one just moving super fast and that was when Lee was just a Genin. Now Lee is three years stronger, faster, ect because its a fact that no one trains harder then Lee which is what made him a genious remember what Gai said during the chunin exams.

And you the one over glorifying naruto as if hes a strategist and saying SM makes him denser then Gaaras sand armor

[/QUOTE][QUOTE]PS: Learn how to properly quote.


This shows otherwise 246-5 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/246/05/), 246-6 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/246/06/), 246-7 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/246/07/), 246-8 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/246/08/).

PS: In the beginning of part two Neji isn't even in Naruto's league. Yamato is pretty random of you?? Yamato is up to par with Kakashi with LMAO.

Oh woopidy doo! Either way naruto even after his elemental training wasnt on par with kakashi he just supassed kakashi and I quote: "supassed kakashi in a way of speaking" Meaning naruto did something that not even kakashi could do by making the RS.

And even after naruto elemental training Neji still out ranked naruto in the DB, lol. Even though I dont usaully like the stats its say something pretty clear which is that Neji is stronger then naruto back then before SM.

From Data Book 3: Naruto can summon any and every toad he wants, as he signed a contract with the chief toad. Source (http://forums.narutocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1578582&postcount=2)

I know, but sasuke can still summon any snak and better yet put Gamabunta or any other Boss summon under genjutsu and make him do what he wants, fact. Sasuke did it to Manda in a second so gama will nothing at all.

Just admit that summons hurt naruto more then help because of sasukes Genjutsu skills.

Because of his massive chakra supply Naruto could summon more than one boss toad on his own. Also he could simply order Bunta to close his eyes & tell him where to strike. Better yet Bunta can jump into the air & spam his water cannon killing Sasuke in one strike. Another thing you're forgetting is that Sasuke leaves himself open for an attack if he were to cast a genjutsu on bunta. Sasuke doesn't have snakes large enough to handle bunta or any of the boss toads for that matter. Also Naruto as a genin was taking out giant snakes on his own LMAO.

LMAO, what an assumtion! Where the proof that pre SM narutro could summon two boss summons at once? Thats right there is none because your fail as usual.

Bunta can jump high yet sasuke already proved he can cast his genjutsu from more then 100 yards away like he did against deidara in the link I posted in my last post.

Better yet is Sasuke is a samll target for Gama to hit from long range and since sasuke has the SG its pratcily fact Gama wont be able to hit sasuke from afar.

Lol, just admit that summons hurt naruto more then help against sasuke.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-13-2009, 04:16 PM
I already explained this. Itachi is more talented at genjutsu than Sasuke. The first time Naruto was caught it was because the genjutsu was cast by Itachi's finger. Sasuke can not do this. Not once did he look into Itachi's eyes.

Its true that itachi hs regular genjutsu skills that sasuke doesnt, but sasuke SG genjutsu is at the same level as itachis whcih was proven during theyre fight where itachi had to use tsukuyomi because regular SG gen wasnt working.
And more important is that SG genjutsu is on another level fro regular genjutsu so if naruto cant handel a finger gen form a 30 percent clone then SG genjutsu would pwn genrape him.

About the crow: Pay attention because this is the last time I'm going to look this up for you. This is Itachi crow-bushin jutsu 366-5 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/366/05/). This is a ninjutsu not a genjutsu. This is the sharingan eye that was in the crow which then cast a genjutsu on Naruto 366-06 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/366/06/). FYI Sasuke doesn't know how to do this ether.

Lol, itachi said naruto was already trapped im his genjutsu when the crow thing was shown so what proof do you have that the Crow is what caught naruto other then it hsa a SG in its eye?

"Because with me my numbers can be anywhere from 1 to 1000!" 366-3 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/366/03/). Naruto stating himself a strategy around genjutsu. Your opponent can't cast it if he doesn't know which one is the real one. O & yeah we also see Naruto going over the basics of sharingan genjutsu. So sorry Naruto is fully aware of how to not get caught by this shit. Your point on casting genjutsu from far is nonsense dude my manga panel says otherwise.

Your full of shit veng! Narutos fought itachi up close and still got caught. However, because sasuke can cast his genjutsu from so far away naruto wont even know if he looking in sasuke eyes, lol. SO you fail by ignoring such a fact.

And its obvious that the SG can tell the difference between the real naruto and KBs because theres no other way itachi couldve found naruto. Its canon the SG can find the real naruto from KBs hahahaha!

It proves nothing Naruto was fainting while they were in Orochimaru's hideout 304-13 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/304/13/) & 304-14 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/304/14/). He was in no condition to fight Sasuke. Naruto was basically running on empty when they got there. Yamato wasn't serious when Sasuke caught him 309-13 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/309/13/), Naruto was on empty & didn't even do anything in this fake fight, while Sakura & Sai suck. This encounter really doesn't prove anything.

Dude, naruto knows how strong he is and admitted himself that sasuke was and I quote: "way too strong fo them to bring him back" Note, naruto included the rest of team kakashi as well no jutsu himself. So, base sasuke was stronger then the whole team kakashi including naruto and he admitted it.

This alone proves my point about the difference between naruto and sasuke back then whichi his elemental training didnt help very much.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/311/15/
Cant argue with naruto because he knows how strong he is and the encouner proved that sasuke can surpress the kyuubi meaning naruto cant use its power.

Wrong CS drains his chakra faster by using more up to enhance his abilities. Re-read the fucking manga tard. Actually I don't because Sasuke would need to actually cast a genjutsu to enter Naruto's mind in order for that to happen. read above in regards to genjutsu & no I'm not using tailed stated just K0N.

Your missing the point because if sasuke tuns out of chakra he can use CS to get more.

And its canon that sasukes SG can surpress the kyuubi so why even bother to argue against it.

LMAO do you want to know why you fail? 311-16 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/311/16/). This whole conversation is geared towards Naruto becoming stronger then Sasuke due to Kakashi's bright training idea.

And you know why you fail? Because naruto was trying to become stronger then the sasuke he fought at the hideout, base sasuke who was holding back so Oro wouldnt know how strong he really is, lol.

Yeah, naruto surpassed the sasuke he fought at the hideout, but once we saw what sasuke could really do when he pwned deidara there was no denying sasuke was far more powerful then naruto even after his elemental training, fact!

Tsunade stated that Naruto can not come along unless he completed the jutsu. This was in regards to the two Akatsuki that killed Asuma. Yamato felt that Naruto's was ready so he was allowed to meet up with Kakashi's group against 2 of Akatsuki. So my original point still stands :).

For crying out load did you not read the link I gave you where it says in writting that kakashis training was meant for naruto to get strong enough for them to save sasuke from Oro before the rebirthing which was a weelk away or so.

Just because naruto used it first on an akatsuki diesnt mean that what the trainging was for, lol.

Here, read this chapter again and just exept your wrong again

Naruto gained years of experience as well as a workout from only a few days training. When you push your body to it's limit if you're not causing yourself serious injury you'll only get stronger & be able to do it better the next time once rested. It started with a simple leaf slice while at the end of his training all night constantly manipulating wind chakra. Yamato even goes to sleep yet Naruto has the reserves to continue on. This is what I meant by stamina increase this is shown during his training process.

OMG naruto isnt a saiyan, hes a human! Although his stamina may have increased a little theres no noticable difference because hes always had alot of stamina.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-13-2009, 05:03 PM
Dude you really need to develop better reading and visual comprehensive skills, or memorization. Sometimes it seems like you pull alot shit out of your ass. It might at least help to go make sure you right before making a statement.
In one of the other posts you made you claimed Shukuku Gara only used taijutsu, well you better take another glance.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/132/15/


Oh my god more BS from a damn hypocrite! I never said 1tail Gaara used ONLY taijutsu I said he used Mainly taijutsu.

How can I take you seriously when you cant even "comprehend" a simple sentence.

And what are you tyalking about becuase veng was spouting a bunch of assumtions and BS like naruto regular Futton rasengan could stop Kirin, or naruto could use the kyuubis power when its obvious that sasuke can supress the kyuubi and his powers.

Or how about Veng's statement that kakuzu is most likly better then ITACHI:confused: thats a WTF!

Most of all, after readding your little comments its obvious you really dont know what your talking about so why are you critisising Me?

Saying shit like the RS is powerful enough to beat a fire jutsu when its canon that only water canon beat a fire jutsu. God, go read the manga yourself befopre critisising others.

[QUOTE=Konnaha_yellow_flash;1720951]

And Lee's 5 gates would surpass frog kata's how? Naruto beat some of Pain's bodies with his fists alone and has the ability to sense movement.... Lee would never touch SM Naruto. Have you ever read the manga? SM > nearly every shinobi in Naruto.

Im sorry but what are you talking aboot:confused:

Narutos frog katas allow him a tow or thrre inch extra reach, nothing else! And he only used frog katas on HG realm which is weakest against attacks so that proves nothing. its like water beating, so what! Naruto beat HG realm with his weakness "physical attack".

OMFG thats what Im talking about! Unlike you TSH I know about combat and I know that naruto cant touch Lee for about 30 seconds because naruto isnt fast enough to sttack Lee much less defend himself against his attacks.

S no, your wrong TSH because naruto wont be able to land a finger on Lee because hes too fast. Lol, you would know that no matter how strong you are if you cant catch your opponent your strength is useless so speed>strength in a open area not too small.

Oh Christ, you are still talking about Lee vs Naruto?

KYF, you are just wrong. Can't you see? It's so easy, it's even logical.

Lee's normal speed without weights was matched by Sasuke in Part 1, since he copied it. Now base speed of Naruto Part II is > Sasuke part I.
Next we assume Lee's speed increased during the TS, so we can assume that he is a bit faster then base Naruto Part II.
5 gates Lee is a lot faster then Naruto. Now, SM Naruto gets a speed boost, enough to be faster then PAIN, who was evenly matched in speed with SM JIRAIYA. See where I am going?

You just watched anime too much. They overrated Lee's speed so it could be more fun to watch. SM Naruto is OBVIOUSLY stronger then 5 Gates Lee.

Want proof? 5 Gates Lee would suck donkey cock against Pain. In a few seconds, I might add.

Edit: You sound it like no one can even see Lee because he is just that damn fast. That's pretty funny. There are ton of shinobi would stomp him and made him part of grass easily. Every stronger shinobi gets an easy win.

Were cool and all, but theres no way PTS naruto is faster then PreTS Lee with his weights off. Naruto is slow! hes no faster then sakura without Kyuubi juice and just a little faster then shikamaru, but hes still slow as can be, lol.


And saying that the anime overrated his speed:confused: What proof do you have to convince me Lee really isnt that fast?

Anyways, although sasuke was supposed to be as fast as Lee during the fight with K0N sasuke was out matched in speed. However, K0N fought Kimimarro and couldnt even touch the guy because he was faster and more skilled. However, injured just fresh out of surgery Lee was able to keep up with Kimimarro, thus proving hes faster then sasuke and K0N while still injured. So, just imagine his speed when he fully healed from surgery.

And when was any of the realms as fast as Jman in HM? Jman ws out maneuvering them the entire fight. Meanwhile naruto wasnt even fast enough to land a blow on HG realm he needed the extention of his arura for that.

Most of all naruto isnt that fast in SM! I agree hes gotten faster, but he was never really that fast to begin with. He was strong, powerful with amazing stamina and SM increased those to super levels. But, because was so slow in base mode his increase wasnt very much and his fight with pain proved that.

I mean not once did pain beat a realm with speed. He jumped and took out demon realm then used some smoke bombms, FRS KB, FRS and the same attack he used on demon realm to take out Hell realm remember. Pain explained that naruto jumped and flanked Hell realm from above. There was no super speed, just an amazing accurate quick jump.

Look herehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/04/
Naruto is three feet away from deva yet hes too slow to reach deva and his KB is too slow to land a puch before deva can lift his arms, aim his ST and fire. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/05/

Now do you see what i mean? Narutos not really that fast at all compared to his other ability increases. So, with that in Mind maybe you can understand why I believe SM naruto wont be able to defend himself against PTS 5gates Lee. Because see how closee naruto is to deva and he couldnt hit him yet look how far away Lee was from Gaara PreTS we he hit in a a fraction of a secondhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/85/03/Lees about 20 feet from Gaara which is 17 more feet then naruto was from Deva.
Then instantly Lee closes the Gap, punts Gara like a football, also Look what happens to the Floor on take off and Kakashis reaction whos already really fasthttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/85/14/

Lee right there showed Far More speed just as a genin then SM naruto did against deva.

Myth
06-13-2009, 05:15 PM
Were cool and all, but theres no way PTS naruto is faster then PreTS Lee with his weights off. Naruto is slow! hes no faster then sakura without Kyuubi juice and just a little faster then shikamaru, but hes still slow as can be, lol.


And saying that the anime overrated his speed:confused: What proof do you have to convince me Lee really isnt that fast?

Anyways, although sasuke was supposed to be as fast as Lee during the fight with K0N sasuke was out matched in speed. However, K0N fought Kimimarro and couldnt even touch the guy because he was faster and more skilled. However, injured just fresh out of surgery Lee was able to keep up with Kimimarro, thus proving hes faster then sasuke and K0N while still injured. So, just imagine his speed when he fully healed from surgery.

And when was any of the realms as fast as Jman in HM? Jman ws out maneuvering them the entire fight. Meanwhile naruto wasnt even fast enough to land a blow on HG realm he needed the extention of his arura for that.

Most of all naruto isnt that fast in SM! I agree hes gotten faster, but he was never really that fast to begin with. He was strong, powerful with amazing stamina and SM increased those to super levels. But, because was so slow in base mode his increase wasnt very much and his fight with pain proved that.

I mean not once did pain beat a realm with speed. He jumped and took out demon realm then used some smoke bombms, FRS KB, FRS and the same attack he used on demon realm to take out Hell realm remember. Pain explained that naruto jumped and flanked Hell realm from above. There was no super speed, just an amazing accurate quick jump.

Look herehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/04/
Naruto is three feet away from deva yet hes too slow to reach deva and his KB is too slow to land a puch before deva can lift his arms, aim his ST and fire. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/05/

Now do you see what i mean? Narutos not really that fast at all compared to his other ability increases. So, with that in Mind maybe you can understand why I believe SM naruto wont be able to defend himself against PTS 5gates Lee. Because see how closee naruto is to deva and he couldnt hit him yet look how far away Lee was from Gaara PreTS we he hit in a a fraction of a secondhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/85/03/Lees about 20 feet from Gaara which is 17 more feet then naruto was from Deva.
Then instantly Lee closes the Gap, punts Gara like a football, also Look what happens to the Floor on take off and Kakashis reaction whos already really fasthttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/85/14/

Lee right there showed Far More speed just as a genin then SM naruto did against deva.

actually Shrike isn't cool with ya he's just a chilled out person who doesn't want to bother with pointless crap,, e.g. ur whole entire rant of posts...

I honestly don't even see why Vengeance continues with you he should just stop nd u can pretend u won or something, since everyone who replied to this debate says ur wrong nd each of those people including myself pretty much give u the same reasons to why more or less of course... but yeah..

Lee<naruto base

lee<naruto sm

As i said if lee beats naruto then he beats sasuke nd the entire akatsuki..ZZzzzzzzz

poolangya
06-13-2009, 05:25 PM
pretty much lee's power of youth gives KYF a hard-on.

if SM Naruto seems slow against Deva Pain, i guess Deva Pain is darn fast.

there is a thing with, bragging speed and subtle speed. if 5gated lee looks faster than SMNaruto, it is because his speed stunts are too explosive. meanwhile, SM Naruto's speed looks more like the gentle type, like the wind as his element suggests. Minato does not crush the ground when he dashes in for the kill does he? but i guess you would say that 5gated lee is faster than the Konoha Yellow Flash..oops that was your ID ryt?

for my conclusion:
SMNaruto speed >> 5-8gates Lee speed

lamps123
06-13-2009, 06:02 PM
i swear when i see kyf post i just scroll down i cant be bothered to read the crap and longer.
nb:to make its worst its always long.

Shrike
06-13-2009, 06:22 PM
Firstly, I don't know why I even bother, but let me finish it in a few sentences.

Also, I actually answered all the points, was lulzy seeing all this, so I had to.


Were cool and all, but theres no way PTS naruto is faster then PreTS Lee with his weights off. Naruto is slow! hes no faster then sakura without Kyuubi juice and just a little faster then shikamaru, but hes still slow as can be, lol.

Naruto is slow? PTS Naruto outmaneuver Deidara and Kakuzu. Both Akatsuki members, with Kakuzu proven at least as fast as Kakashi. Probably faster, too.

And saying that the anime overrated his speed:confused: What proof do you have to convince me Lee really isnt that fast?

Proof? The proof is that you cannot see Lee as he moves lightning fast. Then you have Kyuubi Naruto, who is actually shown to move in the anime, albeit fast, but still not invisibly fast.

Unless you mean to say that 5 Gates Lee is faster then KN4?

Anyways, although sasuke was supposed to be as fast as Lee during the fight with K0N sasuke was out matched in speed. However, K0N fought Kimimarro and couldnt even touch the guy because he was faster and more skilled. However, injured just fresh out of surgery Lee was able to keep up with Kimimarro, thus proving hes faster then sasuke and K0N while still injured. So, just imagine his speed when he fully healed from surgery.

KN0 Naruto fought Kimimaro with a hundred of clones, which means his chakra was split, and he didn't focus his chakra in one body to move as fast. See where I am going?
Injured Lee is not faster then Sasuke at all. You know why? Because he said so. Also, he didn't keep up with Kimimaro. He tried doing something while drunk (which is his strongest state with no Gates, as we have been informed), and failed. Gaara had to fight for him, actually.

And when was any of the realms as fast as Jman in HM? Jman ws out maneuvering them the entire fight. Meanwhile naruto wasnt even fast enough to land a blow on HG realm he needed the extention of his arura for that.

Outmaneuvering them? Is that why he had to hide in the pipes? He got his punch caught. Inside the smoke, I might add.
After loosing his arm, he went out in the open. May I say that he got shit stomped? He didn't evade one piercing attack by Pain. That's why he ended up as a hedgehog.

Naruto was fast enough to kill him with one wind-punch. He didn't even need to hit him. That also shows how fast Pain is. We saw enough of Naruto's speed when he speed-blitzed Asura.

Most of all naruto isnt that fast in SM! I agree hes gotten faster, but he was never really that fast to begin with. He was strong, powerful with amazing stamina and SM increased those to super levels. But, because was so slow in base mode his increase wasnt very much and his fight with pain proved that.

Why are you repeating that he is slow when he isn't? He matched Kakuzu's speed. That was enough.

I mean not once did pain beat a realm with speed. He jumped and took out demon realm then used some smoke bombms, FRS KB, FRS and the same attack he used on demon realm to take out Hell realm remember. Pain explained that naruto jumped and flanked Hell realm from above. There was no super speed, just an amazing accurate quick jump.

Which means that Pain is about on the same level of speed as Naruto. easy to figure, no?

Look herehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/04/
Naruto is three feet away from deva yet hes too slow to reach deva and his KB is too slow to land a puch before deva can lift his arms, aim his ST and fire. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/05/

I really laughed. Naruto was slow to stand up, charge Deva, and hit him, slow enough for Deva to just lift his hands a fire a Shinra?
Yeah, that sounded pretty stupid man, no offense. Shinra takes about a millisecond to fire if he has it ready, it's not a cannon with cannonballs.
Not to mention, Naruto was really close, and Pain even commented on it.

Now do you see what i mean? Narutos not really that fast at all compared to his other ability increases. So, with that in Mind maybe you can understand why I believe SM naruto wont be able to defend himself against PTS 5gates Lee. Because see how closee naruto is to deva and he couldnt hit him yet look how far away Lee was from Gaara PreTS we he hit in a a fraction of a secondhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/85/03/Lees about 20 feet from Gaara which is 17 more feet then naruto was from Deva.
Then instantly Lee closes the Gap, punts Gara like a football, also Look what happens to the Floor on take off and Kakashis reaction whos already really fasthttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/85/14/

Kakashi was surprised to see a kid of their age that fast. It's just that simple. Doesn't mean that Lee is faster then Kakashi. Again, if you think that's the case, then we are having an empty talk here.

And Gaara was slow. He didn't expect an opponent fast enough that his sand couldn't auto-block.

Lee right there showed Far More speed just as a genin then SM naruto did against deva.

So you actually believe Genin Lee > SM Naruto? Lolololololololol.

Myth
06-13-2009, 06:28 PM
Lee>Akatsuki/sasuke/jiraiya

which is what our brilliant kyf is implying since naruto could defeat them all, excluding madara of course...

Dagoro
06-13-2009, 06:59 PM
Lee is so much faster than Madara. I mean what can madara do, * meh * tear a hole in the time space continuum and insta teleport. Lee freaking breaks the ground when he jumps nuff said.

Lee's jumps are eroding the earths top soil.

poolangya
06-13-2009, 09:44 PM
Lee gives me a hard on just typing his name. he's so darn fast he can knock the senses out of any other character in Naruverse faster than i can type the name "Rock Lee".
ahh, i came.

TheSixthHokage
06-14-2009, 02:30 AM
I think SM Naruto's speed wasn't so obvious as Lee's because of this one simple fact: the Sixth Paths of Pain and Naruto were COMPARABLE in speed, at least Deva was (which is why Naruto blitzed Asura before it touched Tsunade, fact #1). Lee was so fast because Gaara was essentially standing still and had no physical development at all... a comparison between rivals in a skill area is going to make each one seem as impressive, while comparing a master versus an amateur will only inflate the appearance of skill the master has. Hope this made as much sense as I thought it did.

amyxd
06-14-2009, 06:06 AM
About Yamato Vs Kabuto Ofcourse Kabuto Will win Because Kabuto Have The Same Strength as Kakashi's

saiyaman
06-14-2009, 07:44 AM
Gated Lee vs Sage Mode Naruto? Okay let's assume the Impossible: Gated Lee is faster than SM Naruto. And you think that's enough to win? lol?

Speed alone isn't enough against powerful opponents if your arm can't put a dent into their body. Lee has a lot of speed and less strength. Naruto has both super strength and super speed and face it: he isn't going to get hurt by the likes of Lee when Natural energy is on his side. Plus even if Lee manages to get near Naruto he would be terribly hurt by just the power extruding from one blow (Look at one of the Pains for more proof :p ). Naruto doesn't need to connect a blow, natural energy around does the trick. So all Lee will do is dance and run around Naruto as though Naruto were his destined Master. :p

Dagoro
06-14-2009, 09:42 AM
Come on, anyone with a functioning brain would know why the Pein fight wasn't filled with speed feats.

4 out of the 6 are stationary fighters, DV AR HGR Hell R don't really move around much people.

One spam summons
One ressurects
One absorbs jutsu
One manipulates gravity

They don't need to move around a lot and they dont.

Demon R and Human realm are the only paths we've seen moving around a lot.

MikeyM1979
06-14-2009, 11:18 AM
Lee gives me a hard on just typing his name. he's so darn fast he can knock the senses out of any other character in Naruverse faster than i can type the name "Rock Lee".
ahh, i came.Ew. The only gated version of Lee we've seen is BTS Genin 5 gated Lee. In terms of running speed, I can't specifically state that SM Naruto is faster than 5 gated Lee, because I don't recall seeing SM Naruto run. I've seen him jump, and that speed is comparable to, or surpasses Lee's speed. I mean, are we really going to still take this fight seriously? I know I've not been around often, but we're still talking about this? BTS 5 gated Lee isn't beating PTS SM Naruto. Lee's speed isn't enough to beat Naruto. Lee's lame ass physical attacks aren't going to hurt SM's durability. Hell, Lee doesn't even have a doujutsu to even TRY and compete with SM Naruto. Lee's ass is going down.

About Yamato Vs Kabuto Ofcourse Kabuto Will win Because Kabuto Have The Same Strength as Kakashi'sThat bolded part, without having gone back and read any previous posts, implies this is normal Kabuto vs Kakashi. Mmm, no. Kakashi roflstomps Crapbuto.

pesass
06-14-2009, 02:41 PM
In my opinion: Speed ranking
Madara (moves with lightspeed)
Sasuke and Naruto Sagemode
Lee gates
...

TheSixthHokage
06-14-2009, 02:44 PM
Come on, anyone with a functioning brain would know why the Pein fight wasn't filled with speed feats.

4 out of the 6 are stationary fighters, DV AR HGR Hell R don't really move around much people.

One spam summons
One ressurects
One absorbs jutsu
One manipulates gravity

They don't need to move around a lot and they dont.

Demon R and Human realm are the only paths we've seen moving around a lot.

I think Deva has some serious speed when he dodged the 4-tails with relative ease. Regardless, my point still stands, gated Lee is a speed monster, while Gaara had no physical training or increased speed, so it was comparing a Kenyan track and field athlete with a couch potato. Deva and Naruto both had speed feats from what I saw, the rest of his bodies were to co-ordinate with Deva, speed wasn't important.

stubborn_d0nkey
06-15-2009, 11:49 AM
i agree with whoever said that 5 gate lee is faster than sm naruto. i personally take it as a given so it is odd for me to see so many people thinking otherwise, and i definitely respect such a view.

not looking to discuss that much just wanted to state my opinion

oh and if lee is faster that doesn't necessarily mean that he will win.
but gates would give him a relatively significant chance(in comparison to non-gated lee) against any shinobi in the narutoverse, including sm naruto

lamps123
06-15-2009, 11:56 AM
i agree with whoever said that 5 gate lee is faster than sm naruto. i personally take it as a given so it is odd for me to see so many people thinking otherwise, and i definitely respect such a view.

not looking to discuss that much just wanted to state my opinion

oh and if lee is faster that doesn't necessarily mean that he will win.
but gates would give him a relatively significant chance(in comparison to non-gated lee) against any shinobi in the narutoverse, including sm naruto
yeah i uderstand but kyf is saying gated lee would beat sm naruto in seconds.
thats just retarded

stubborn_d0nkey
06-15-2009, 12:17 PM
yeah i uderstand but kyf is saying gated lee would beat sm naruto in seconds.
thats just retarded

well actually a battle between gated naruto and sm naruto would have two mayor possibilities for its outcome:

1. gated lee beats sm naruto in seconds
2. gated lee tries to be sm naruto but fails and sm naruto beats him just seconds later

gates are a hail mary. if they work its over if nto the user is over. so if lee were to win with gates it would probably be in seconds.

Myth
06-15-2009, 01:09 PM
well actually a battle between gated naruto and sm naruto would have two mayor possibilities for its outcome:

1. gated lee beats sm naruto in seconds
2. gated lee tries to be sm naruto but fails and sm naruto beats him just seconds later

gates are a hail mary. if they work its over if nto the user is over. so if lee were to win with gates it would probably be in seconds.

Saying Lee could beat naruto is saying he can beat akatsuki nuff said discussion over the majority disagree with kyf for a reason...

MikeyM1979
06-15-2009, 01:27 PM
well actually a battle between gated naruto and sm naruto would have two mayor possibilities for its outcome:No, it has one major possibility. Lee loses.

1. gated lee beats sm naruto in secondsBased on what? You're saying five gated Lee, BTS, still a Genin in terms of rank and actual skill, can beat SM Naruto? Naruto, who is a Genin in rank, but Kage level in ability? Who, who has SEEN what Lee can do already, and would know what to expect, and how to counter whatever Lee throws at him?

2. gated lee tries to be sm naruto but fails and sm naruto beats him just seconds laterBingo.

gates are a hail mary. if they work its over if nto the user is over. so if lee were to win with gates it would probably be in seconds.Gates didn't work on Gaara, and Gaara stood up and walked away after the fight as if nothing had happened. I'm sure Gai's gates are uber, but Lee's gates against someone on SM Naruto's level is weak sauce.

Lee has what? Speed? Cool. So does Naruto. Lee has an extremely basic taijutsu style of punch and kick using brute force. Cool, so does Naruto, except Naruto can actually OHKO people with or without any connected hits. Lee has....

*scratches head*

Lee has....

Shit.

Naruto out classes Lee, even in taijutsu. And Naruto doesn't even specialize in taijutsu. I tire of this discussion. It makes no sense pitting five gated Lee against someone like SM Naruto. It's like pitting BTS Sakura vs BTS Itachi. Out classed in every way.

New fight.

Pain vs Orochimaru, Deidara, and Sasori

Right team are all as IC as possible, only, Dei and Sas aren't looking to kill Orochimaru. :p And Oro won't be love struck by the Rinnegan. >.> Orochimaru has everything in his arsenal ever shown, including Manda, and Edo Tensei is prepped for Shodai and Nidai. He has Hydra form also, while Sasori and Deidara all have everything they've also shown, including the Kazekage puppet and 100 puppets, and C4 and C0. Neither of them know what the paths can do.

All paths are on the scene, and they also fight as IC as possible, and are fighting to win. Neither of the paths (I'm doing this for the lulz) knows what the right team can do. Also, their formation doesn't change too much. Meaning, Hell Realm is still very valuable.

The location takes place in destroyed Konoha.

Myth
06-15-2009, 02:11 PM
No, it has one major possibility. Lee loses.

Based on what? You're saying five gated Lee, BTS, still a Genin in terms of rank and actual skill, can beat SM Naruto? Naruto, who is a Genin in rank, but Kage level in ability? Who, who has SEEN what Lee can do already, and would know what to expect, and how to counter whatever Lee throws at him?

Bingo.

Gates didn't work on Gaara, and Gaara stood up and walked away after the fight as if nothing had happened. I'm sure Gai's gates are uber, but Lee's gates against someone on SM Naruto's level is weak sauce.

Lee has what? Speed? Cool. So does Naruto. Lee has an extremely basic taijutsu style of punch and kick using brute force. Cool, so does Naruto, except Naruto can actually OHKO people with or without any connected hits. Lee has....

*scratches head*

Lee has....

Shit.

Naruto out classes Lee, even in taijutsu. And Naruto doesn't even specialize in taijutsu. I tire of this discussion. It makes no sense pitting five gated Lee against someone like SM Naruto. It's like pitting BTS Sakura vs BTS Itachi. Out classed in every way.

New fight.

Pain vs Orochimaru, Deidara, and Sasori

Right team are all as IC as possible, only, Dei and Sas aren't looking to kill Orochimaru. :p And Oro won't be love struck by the Rinnegan. >.> Orochimaru has everything in his arsenal ever shown, including Manda, and Edo Tensei is prepped for Shodai and Nidai. He has Hydra form also, while Sasori and Deidara all have everything they've also shown, including the Kazekage puppet and 100 puppets, and C4 and C0. Neither of them know what the paths can do.

All paths are on the scene, and they also fight as IC as possible, and are fighting to win. Neither of the paths (I'm doing this for the lulz) knows what the right team can do. Also, their formation doesn't change too much. Meaning, Hell Realm is still very valuable.

The location takes place in destroyed Konoha.

Kuchiyose chibaku tensei fights over.... any attack thrown at him he can repel deidara's flying advantage isn't a factor since pain can fly as well nd he can just draw deidara in using bansho tennin..

Human realm will would need to team up with someone to pull out nidai's fake soul nd shodaimes..

nd sasori is only deadly if his stuff hits u which it can't cause of ST...

worst case scenario pain nukes everything..

lamps123
06-15-2009, 02:23 PM
well actually a battle between gated naruto and sm naruto would have two mayor possibilities for its outcome:

1. gated lee beats sm naruto in seconds
2. gated lee tries to be sm naruto but fails and sm naruto beats him just seconds later

gates are a hail mary. if they work its over if nto the user is over. so if lee were to win with gates it would probably be in seconds.
its like you are making retarded comments tooo,
gosh no more kyf children

no offense.xx
you mean to tell me sage naruto cant take what gaara took,lol just fast kicks and punches when naruto took a full blasts chidori in his chest please no more argument i havent seen such a stupid topic in my life.

stubborn_d0nkey
06-15-2009, 02:36 PM
No, it has one major possibility. Lee loses.

Based on what? You're saying five gated Lee, BTS, still a Genin in terms of rank and actual skill, can beat SM Naruto? Naruto, who is a Genin in rank, but Kage level in ability? Who, who has SEEN what Lee can do already, and would know what to expect, and how to counter whatever Lee throws at him?

Bingo.

Gates didn't work on Gaara, and Gaara stood up and walked away after the fight as if nothing had happened. I'm sure Gai's gates are uber, but Lee's gates against someone on SM Naruto's level is weak sauce.

Lee has what? Speed? Cool. So does Naruto. Lee has an extremely basic taijutsu style of punch and kick using brute force. Cool, so does Naruto, except Naruto can actually OHKO people with or without any connected hits. Lee has....

*scratches head*

Lee has....

Shit.

Naruto out classes Lee, even in taijutsu. And Naruto doesn't even specialize in taijutsu. I tire of this discussion. It makes no sense pitting five gated Lee against someone like SM Naruto. It's like pitting BTS Sakura vs BTS Itachi. Out classed in every way.

New fight.

Pain vs Orochimaru, Deidara, and Sasori

Right team are all as IC as possible, only, Dei and Sas aren't looking to kill Orochimaru. :p And Oro won't be love struck by the Rinnegan. >.> Orochimaru has everything in his arsenal ever shown, including Manda, and Edo Tensei is prepped for Shodai and Nidai. He has Hydra form also, while Sasori and Deidara all have everything they've also shown, including the Kazekage puppet and 100 puppets, and C4 and C0. Neither of them know what the paths can do.

All paths are on the scene, and they also fight as IC as possible, and are fighting to win. Neither of the paths (I'm doing this for the lulz) knows what the right team can do. Also, their formation doesn't change too much. Meaning, Hell Realm is still very valuable.

The location takes place in destroyed Konoha.

in the naruto verse there is no such thing as a sure win. no matter who is battling

and yes i am saying that lee can beat naruto bu not that it is more probable. it is more probable that naruto will win but lee does have a chance, thats my point. if you dont accept that fact who cares, i dont. just stop discussing it if you are so tired and sooo sure your right. there is no way you can prove to me that gated lee doesn't have a chance against sm naruto.

and i think bts sakura wouldn't be seriously hurt in a battle vs bts itachi cause itachi wouldn't want to hurt her as she wouldn't pose a serious threat.




oro and co win. oro summons the hokages- darkness jutsu - pain is left crippled, pain loses a huge advantage of the combined eyesight. sasori then summons the kazekage with his sand and fucks them up. mines can also be planted. or sasori just shoots out a lot of fucking needles - if i remember correctly his posion affects the muscles so they would immobilize pain (except god pain who can fly :P we should call god pain superman from now on .p (this is tobi with his tongue out - only his right eye is seen:P). deidara and oro can fly up so sasori can release his gas.

there are so many combinatioins between the three that can be used to wipe out the paths.

oh i think manda and hydra are good enough to handle animals summons

i think the hardest to kill would be of course superman. animal could also be a problem because of his invisible summon.


ps i think sasori is highly underrated. i would put him on the same level as nagato+pain he was just too hard to beat. if choyi wasn't there i hardly doubt kakashi sakura and naruto would have been able to beat sasori (taking deidara out of the picture all together)

so i propose the battle:
sakura kakashi and naruto vs sasori at the time they met - so either exclude ms/kamui or given kakashi crappy accuracy and the side effects (includes several minutes to prepare - this happens during battle) he had after deidara.

i say, of course, that sasori wins

Myth
06-15-2009, 04:02 PM
in the naruto verse there is no such thing as a sure win. no matter who is battling

and yes i am saying that lee can beat naruto bu not that it is more probable. it is more probable that naruto will win but lee does have a chance, thats my point. if you dont accept that fact who cares, i dont. just stop discussing it if you are so tired and sooo sure your right. there is no way you can prove to me that gated lee doesn't have a chance against sm naruto.

and i think bts sakura wouldn't be seriously hurt in a battle vs bts itachi cause itachi wouldn't want to hurt her as she wouldn't pose a serious threat.


I'll prove it to you moron, the fact that garra would shit stomp over lee all day everyday is proof enough....

Naruto is the strongest ninja in Konoha u honestly are trying to sell that he could be beaten by some fucking newb with no skill... its a good thing ur name is stubborn cause ur the biggest idiot out there, even Kyf is more credible then u are... although in this case ur both morons...

Naruto>konoha

lee<the whole ninja world..

If like i said Lee could beat naruto then he could beat the entire akatsuki including sasuke nd jiraiya along with oro.. ur embarrassing urself. i keep trying to tell kyf that he should quit cause he's obviously wrong.. u know u fail when 3 of the most respected memebers in the naruto section shit storm all over you...

Shrike
Vengeance
Mikey

3 of the best posters in this section that i've seen.

poolangya
06-15-2009, 06:35 PM
still not over?ahh we got another lee-lover i see..
i think he is right, it is really possible for 5gated lee to win against an SM Naruto. e.g. Lee finds SM Naruto in deep sleep,a knife to the heart would be all that is needed for a 5gated lee to win. another example would be if 5gated lee gives SM Naruto a poisoned ramen. SM Naruto dies of poison, 5gated lee wins.so see? it is not really impossible. but highly improbable if pitted against each other in serious combat. Lee<<<<<<< SM Naruto, believe it!

as for 6paths vs Deidei,sasori,oro. hmmm.i go for Pain on this one.it will be a hard fought battle. Sasori's needle attacks might be able to penetrate an ST shield, but i don't think poison can hinder dead puppet bodies. Deidara can't do his large scale bombs as it is prone to friendly fire, unless the 3 dont care for each other? Oro's hashi summon's eternal darkness blind the rinnegan eyes for sure, but will hinder his other team members and himself probably, and i don't think a nerfed hashi summon can one hit KO pain even if he's as strong as a tsunade. meanwhile, Deva has the option to deactivate his 5 other paths, then massive shinra tensei the shiz out of his 3 enemies, they wont realize that until it's too late. Pain 6-4 Deidara+Sasori+Orochimaru. 6 Paths of Pain wins.

stubborn_d0nkey
06-16-2009, 10:37 AM
I'll prove it to you moron, the fact that garra would shit stomp over lee all day everyday is proof enough....
that is your opinion and that proves shit

Naruto is the strongest ninja in Konoha
agreed
u honestly are trying to sell that he could be beaten by some fucking newb with no skill...
yeah, he could be beaten by tenten (even if the probability is 0.000000000000000000000000000000000001% it is still possible)
we have seen several times when shinobi have won a seemingly impossible battle
its a good thing ur name is stubborn cause ur the biggest idiot out there
name calling, if you are so sure in your opinion then why do you need to use such a low method(to gain support)?, even Kyf is more credible then u are
man i respect everybodys opinion. i know how people think about KYF, and i have to say i have the feeling that there are enough people that feel the same about you
... although in this case ur both morons...
wow, u really think that your opinion is that weak that you have to use insults twice in the same post :P
Naruto>konoha
agreed of course
ee<the whole ninja world..
if you mean lee vs. ninja world then i say
naruto<whole ninja world
even you mean he can't beat anybody then i am disappointed because i thought that you could have been smarter than that

If like i said Lee could beat naruto then he could beat the entire akatsuki including sasuke nd jiraiya along with oro..
of course he has a chance against anybody, as everybody does. it is very unlikely that he could beat the enitire akatsui. i would say its impossible in a 1vs all fight, but he does have a chance (even if its one in a million) against each of them
ur embarrassing urself.
why do you say that? are you important to me? no
i keep trying to tell kyf that he should quit cause he's obviously wrong..
why? i agree that bad arguments and fights should be avoided but even if he is wrong he has the right to state his opinion and defend it, even if his ideas and theories are wrong some of his premises could easily be worth reading(this happened to me personally many times here - not necessarily with KYF posts- but i have read theories that i thought were stupid but the author did right some facts and points that i didnt notice before and made it worth the time).oh, and if you think he is wrong that doesn't he is wrong u know u fail when 3 of the most respected memebers in the naruto section shit storm all over you...

Shrike
Vengeance
Mikey

3 of the best posters in this section that i've seen.
when did they reply to m lee 5g vs sm naruto posts? i only saw you and lamps? id like to read their opinion if they have.

oh and why are you always pushing your opinion as the only possible one. that was one thing that in my opinion clearly makes you worse than kyf whtever other people say about him.

still not over?ahh we got another lee-lover i see..
im definitely not a lee lover, i just have an open mind
i think he is right, it is really possible for 5gated lee to win against an SM Naruto. e.g. Lee finds SM Naruto in deep sleep,a knife to the heart would be all that is needed for a 5gated lee to win. another example would be if 5gated lee gives SM Naruto a poisoned ramen. SM Naruto dies of poison, 5gated lee wins.so see? it is not really impossible. but highly improbable if pitted against each other in serious combat.
even though to me this is clear sarcasm you did indeed prove my point. lee 5g can beat sm naruto regardless of how improbable it is
Lee<<<<<<< SM Naruto, believe it!

i never said that lee was better than sm naruto, i, of course, believe the opposite. and i do believe that sm naruto is way much better than lee, however that does not exclude the possibility that lee can win.



take real life examples if you dont want to trust the manga ones.
who would think that a top four english football club wont win against a team from the fourth division or worse. but it has happened,


and thats my point. it is possible even if it is highly unlikely

TheSixthHokage
06-16-2009, 10:56 AM
This is really getting pointless, everyone:

Madara, SM Naruto and MS Sasuke are probably the top three shinobi in the WORLD. Any of these shinobi could take out any other, Lee is a fly in comparison to them and SM Naruto's Frog Kata's would destroy him let alone his FRS's.

Narutologist
06-16-2009, 12:05 PM
"Your resistance is futile"...lmao what was the argument again...

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-16-2009, 03:23 PM
Again I feel the need to mention this isnt DBZ its naruto. The one with the highest power level isnt always the winner. The winner is usually decided by how fighter match up "their strengths and weaknesses". And even if for some retarted reason you think naruto is like DBZ then for about 25 seconds Lees power level is as high as SM narutos if not higher so SM gives naruto super strength with increased speed and FL gives lee super speed with increased strength. However, its common knowledge that speed counters strength because you cant hit whaT YOU CANT CATCH. sO. FOR 25 SECONDS 5GATES lEE IS MORE THEN CAPABLE OF BEATING EVEN SM NARUTO.

Oh for the love of god just cause naruto circumstantialy PNJed his way to a victory against pain everybody thinks he cant be beat. However, Deva, a shinobi with less tajutsu skill then Lee, less spedd and power as well managed to shit stom MS naruto like he was nothing with only one special ability ST and BT.

However, Lee who has better taijutsu more speed and power with one specaial ability Forbiden lotus that accelerates him to speeds that even sasuke cant achieve while giving him explosive punching and kicking power due to the upsurge of so much chakra.

Still, somehow SM narutos going to use his frog katas and FRS to beat Lee when he cant even defend himself against someone moving so fast. And somehow SM naruto more dense then Gaaras sand armor that was able to wether most of his attacks that were powerful enough to annihilate the floor on take off. Seriously, no kunai, sharp tools of any sort have penetrated Gaaras sand armor including Kimiamrros horns in C2 level that are more dense then steel, yet SM naruto was stabbed by a pointy chakra rodd twice so hes more dense. For crying out load it took chidori to finally get through Gaaras defenses and it can pierce anything.

Lol, even though Lees moving so fast SM naruto wont even be able to react to his attacks. And even though Lee will be hitting hard enough to KO even SM naruto because theres no way in hell hes more dnese then Gaara sand armor naruto fans have already made up their mind that Lee no matter what couldnt beat SM naruto so this has become pointless.

Its like trying to tell Fox news how wrong they are, but somehow your wrong because its a whoel network against you.

lol, at this point lets just agree to disagree and drop it, OK!

New fight!

Deidara vs SM naruto?

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-16-2009, 05:28 PM
[QUOTE=Shrike;1721189][QUOTE=TheSixthHokage;1721369][QUOTE=saiyaman;1721449]
[QUOTE=Dagoro;1721470][QUOTE=MikeyM1979;1721479]

For those who actually think SM naruto is faster then Gated Lee, HM Jman or even kakashi for that matter this will prove you wrong because no matter what Pa frog says naruto should be able to do actions speak louder then words and SM narutos actions here proves hes not as fast as HM Jman, Gated Lee, sasuke or even kakashi, Gai.

this isnt about SM naruto vs 5gates Lee anymore its about 5gates Lee vs SM naruto in speed. And the fact that I have to explain this is fucking rediculous!

For instance, SM naruto isnt even faster then any pain realm while HM Jman was clearly faster in his fight. Heres where HM Jman moved with explsoives speed, enough to destroy the ground somehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/377/12/
Heres where shrike said Jman wasnt fast because human realm blocked his attack yet all human realm did was move his arm a couple of inches to block Jmans attack that animal realm already saw comming. So, human realm can move his arm 8 inches the same speed HM jamn can move his entire body:rolleyes: Seriously, does that make human realm as fast as HM jman now:confused:
Here Jman uses a frog as a decoy then bltzes behind anilam realm, but animal realm summons a statue in time to block Jmans attack. SO, with the other realm watching Jman sneak up on animal realm, animal realmwas able to summon a shield manly use a t/s jutsu "summoning" to block Jmans attack so it took the speed of light to block Jmans attack.:rolleyes:
Here Jman just plain vanishes hes so fast and the others look suprised because of ithttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/378/02/

Now for SM naruto
This is the last time Im goning to explain this to this narutatds who actaully think SM naruto blitzed 100 yards in a second, but couldnt reach deva before he raised his hands, amied then fired his ST whne he was only three feet away, lol.
ANyways, here you can obviously see SM naruto senses the attack 5 panles before he finally shows up on demon. So, it took naruto 5 panels 2 speeches that I assure you werent super fast spoken speeches and if you look carefully you can see demons attacking in one panel then in the very next panle demons scorpion things are already out and about to touch tsunade meaning some time went by unbetween those two panels alone, it wasnt that fast of a transition of panels, then naruto lands. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/430/16/ Obviously narutos attack still wasnt any faster then his attack against hell realm herehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/04/ Naruto landed at the same time deva STed the real FRS that came right after the fake FRS of the shadow FRS attack which is fast, but not as fast as 1 second. And seeing as how naruto jumped the moment the smoke boms went off and didnt arrive till the real FRS did hes not even as fast as the sahdow FRS attack.
Here you can see SM naruto landing just as deva repells the real FRShttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/433/16/ proving hes no faster then it if not slower since deva said naruto had already jumped the momnet the smoke bombs went offhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/04/Proof!!!
Next naruto charges the realms and is intercepted by HG realm who manages to avoid narutos attack while making his own after it takes him three pages, the boss summons taking outy the pain summons before he finnally reached the other realmshttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/431/09/
Heres naruto running slow as dickhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/431/10/
Herehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/431/11/s the boss summons jumping up and attacking the pain summons
ANd heres SM naruto finally reaching the other realms then missing his so called fast attackhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/431/12/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/431/13/
ANd heres naruto moving too slow to reach deva or his KB to punch HG who hes right on top of before deva can raise his arms, aim them, then attack with ST accutaly enougn to take out naruto and his KB without hurting HG realm who hes right on top ofhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/05/
^you can also see in this pic that SM naruto was already on his feet attacking before his hands were raised so why couldnt SM naruto reach him before he aimed then shot his ST? Hes not that fast, lamo!
Again naruto attacks a realm and misses forcing Bunta to suck them both up so naruto can land an attack on a realm that cant even see himhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/432/12/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/432/16/
ANd here is the PNJ that still couldnt catch deva whos not even that fast, lol. Just Look how the Shadow FRS which is faster then SM naruto proved when it arrived before he did in the atatck against Hell realm. But look how the three "naruto, his KBS are in the smoke", yet there is two hendged KBS that Grab Deva "PNJ as fuck", fail, then about fifty hedged KBS attack and still fail "PNJ as fucking hell!". Then finally with assistance from his KBs anruto finally moves fast enough to catch deva before the five seconds are up. SOmething that not even SM could do, lol.http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/442/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/442/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/442/17/

now, for Looks at real speed feats that are all either shown to be very fast or at least commented on how fast.
First is Lee Blitzing Gaara in a split second covering 5 times the distance SM naruto couldnt even cover to hit Devahttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/85/14/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/85/16/ Notice Lee moves with such explosive force that not on does the ground get annihilated, but the shockwave of air pressure created blows like a tornado causing kakashi to even praise Lees speed and he has a SG that makes fast movements look slower remember. Just showing how fast the attack really was!
Here sasuke blitzes Tobi the diedara who narrowly esacpes, but not before commenting on the speedhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/08/
Then Look and see how even deidara who was able to outmaneuver kyuubi juice naruto and Lee and Neji without arms proving hes pretty fast himself has this to say about sasukes speedhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/358/07/
Heres Gated Gai exploding so fast he destroys some ground the some kisame, lolhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/258/13/ WHats funny is $gates Lee destroyed even more ground and caused moe of a shockwave also.
Here Jman also destroys ground with explosive speedhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/377/12/
as well as disapears with explosive speed.http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/378/02/


Also, Keep in mind that When Jman fought pain the realms were looking from at least tow different points of veiw which allowed them to predict Jmans attacks more easily. However, when naruto fought the realms they wer all together looking from the same point of view and he still couldnt land any of his attacks without help from his deceptive NE arura on HG realm, buntas mouth in darkness for animal realm, the FRS for human realm, a ambush from above after using a shadow FRS as a decoy. And finally it took naruto alot of his KBS throwing him at a warn out deva realm to finally beat him. There was no high speed attacks that beat any single real, just deception, power of numbers and assistance from summons. ABsolutly no high speed at all.

In conclusion, no matter what you believe or how you may try and reinterprit this it clearly shows, not says that SM naruto isnt even faster then kakashi "most likly equal in speed" and definatly not faster then sasuke, gated Lee, Gai gates or base "its long been know hes faster then kakashi" or HM Jman.

Vengeance
06-16-2009, 05:41 PM
To much to read in my drunkin state. This is all I really saw...

Bla bla bla bla Naruto gets PnJ. Bla bla bla bla Gated Lee can kill Pain. Bla Bla Bla Bla Lee without gates can take Sasuke. Bla bla bla bla Naruto is slower then Gaara. Bla bla bla bla Lee is the greatest ninja ever because he`s a wanabe martial artist just like me. Bla Bla Bla Bla I don`t understand why everyone in the forum disagrees with me about Lee. Seems like I`m the smartest one around here.

Just gotta point out one thing....... Lee sucks donkey dick.

Ok I`m done "vanishes"

Myth
06-16-2009, 05:48 PM
KYF u agree wot disagree then u re post a fuckign as load of crap again... roflll ehh clown will be clowns...

Lee can't beat no one if he can beat naruto he can beat akatsuki jiraiya oro nd sasuke nuff said.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-16-2009, 07:03 PM
To much to read in my drunkin state. This is all I really saw...

Bla bla bla bla Naruto gets PnJ. Bla bla bla bla Gated Lee can kill Pain. Bla Bla Bla Bla Lee without gates can take Sasuke. Bla bla bla bla Naruto is slower then Gaara. Bla bla bla bla Lee is the greatest ninja ever because he`s a wanabe martial artist just like me. Bla Bla Bla Bla I don`t understand why everyone in the forum disagrees with me about Lee. Seems like I`m the smartest one around here.

Just gotta point out one thing....... Lee sucks donkey dick.

Ok I`m done "vanishes"

Lo, I didnt say even one of those, but you did miss the part where you almost lost your virginity virginence. And where you hypocritically tell me I dont know anything about strategy meanwhile you dont even know the difference between a strategy and a tactic, lol.

Cheers dick-Lick!

@Myth:

Im seriously not even trying to convice you of anything becuase no matter what you believe SM narutos faster, stronger, sees better then the Byakugan, smells better then Kiba and can sense better then Karin because your not even narutarted anymore, your in a narucoma.

EDIT: If you would read my post comparing speeds then you will clearly see SM naruto isnt as fast as most of you make him out to be.

poolangya
06-16-2009, 07:22 PM
i tried reading it,really i did. but still i totally disagree with the jump 5panels before then BAM! as you know, pain bodies share vision. and the remaining 5 pains at back when rocket pain attacked is looking ahead.they would definitely see naruto if he jumps 5panels before,and rocket pain would react definitely, but he couldnt. therefore they were not able to see what naruto did.therefore, naruto is darn fast,or pain is just darn slow, which i know everyone would disagree too. so one thing is possible. Naruto is just darn fast.
the rest of the evidences you;ve shown from their fight just proves also one thing. Pain is also darn fast, but definitely slower than naruto. the jiraiya panels youve shown showcases how pain can deal with the speedblitz of HM jiraiya. all the other evidences showing speed feats, such as destroying ground etc etc, it could boil down to their speed being rough speed, and naruto's as gentle speed. you can't ask kishi to show Naruto breaking Gamabunta's Head when he jumped 5panels according to you, can you?
i rest my case, you wont understand my reason even when it is slapped left and right to your face then shoved up your arse.

Myth
06-16-2009, 07:42 PM
Lo, I didnt say even one of those, but you did miss the part where you almost lost your virginity virginence. And where you hypocritically tell me I dont know anything about strategy meanwhile you dont even know the difference between a strategy and a tactic, lol.

Cheers dick-Lick!

@Myth:

Im seriously not even trying to convice you of anything becuase no matter what you believe SM narutos faster, stronger, sees better then the Byakugan, smells better then Kiba and can sense better then Karin because your not even narutarted anymore, your in a narucoma.

EDIT: If you would read my post comparing speeds then you will clearly see SM naruto isnt as fast as most of you make him out to be.

narucoma, how long did it take u to make that up moron... I never said sm naruto was faster then lee u fucktard i said there's no way in hell lee can beat naruto base or not base... no he can't smell better then kiba but he can sense way better then him since he did what kiba couldn't nd kiba knew pain's scent.. sense better then karin idk probably he found pain in a second using a kick ass method... idk if better then karin though..

Stop complaining naruto is just that good with SM it gives u lots of things wtf did u expect for a power up to do nd a power up were only those with extremly big chakra's can learn. shit like taht gives u quality stuff..

Oh nd ur not convincing anyone so don't say shit like "ur not trying to anymore to convince me" when ur not convincing anyone else nor have u ever done that... u keep making a fool out of yourself just drop the tfucking topic nd move on... Naruto> lee in all states no amtter what u say.. a little fucking speed won't do shit for u.. why because

A more then well rounded guy hell a well rounded guy can floor lee 10/10 times, u know why cause he got more methods then lee who has 1 SPEED...

Lee's speed never won him 1 fight yet so till it does stfu nd stop complaing.. like i said if Lee beats naruto he beat ur BF sasuke jiraiya akatsuki orochimaru god knows who else... Since yes naruto can pretty much floor them all at this point in his stage.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-16-2009, 11:36 PM
i tried reading it,really i did. but still i totally disagree with the jump 5panels before then BAM! as you know, pain bodies share vision. and the remaining 5 pains at back when rocket pain attacked is looking ahead.they would definitely see naruto if he jumps 5panels before,and rocket pain would react definitely, but he couldnt. therefore they were not able to see what naruto did.therefore, naruto is darn fast,or pain is just darn slow, which i know everyone would disagree too. so one thing is possible. Naruto is just darn fast.
the rest of the evidences you;ve shown from their fight just proves also one thing. Pain is also darn fast, but definitely slower than naruto. the jiraiya panels youve shown showcases how pain can deal with the speedblitz of HM jiraiya. all the other evidences showing speed feats, such as destroying ground etc etc, it could boil down to their speed being rough speed, and naruto's as gentle speed. you can't ask kishi to show Naruto breaking Gamabunta's Head when he jumped 5panels according to you, can you?
i rest my case, you wont understand my reason even when it is slapped left and right to your face then shoved up your arse.

Your a dunce, lmao! your saying the other realms wouldve noticed Narutos jump when theyre all looking from the same point of view at tsunade as she talks shit drawing theyre attentionhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/430/16/
Meanwhile narutos so far back its easy as hell to lose sight of him once he jumps because naruto did it again against deva, HG and hell realm by jumping over there line of sighthttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/04/
^this is more then enough evidence to prove naruto jumped after sensing pains attack 5 panles and two speeches before he landed so drop this retarted fanning, seriously!

And Im sorry but gentle speed, lamo! Your suggeting that naruto flew like superman over and rasenganed demon realm or w/e crazy crap you believe. However, SM naruto couldnt even reach deva or his KB couldnt even punch HG realm before deva raised his arms, aimed his ST and fired, lol.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/05/
^Look and see how SM naruto had already stood up and started to attack before devas hands were up yet he nor his clone were fast enough to get off an attack before deva raised his arms, aimed and fire his ST.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/06/
^this proves Deva aimed his ST before firing because he didnt hit HG with it and SM narutos KB was right on top of him.

So, please explain to me how SM naruto can supposidly fly over like superman "over 100 yards" and take out demon realm before he takes out tsunade in a second yet SM naruto cant even reach deva whose 3 feet away, narutos KB cant hit HG whos under him before deva can lift his hands, aim then fire his ST?

I mean look here! SM naruto was still like a foot and a half away when he got STed, lol. He blitzed a whole foot and a half in a second before failinghttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/05/

LMAO! Why was SM naruto not fast enough poolangya?

LMAO, you fail sustains me!

EDIT: Let me explain speed to you noob. When exploding from 0 to 150 in a 4th of a second you cause damage to w/e your standing on because Mass times acceleration = force. Meaning SM naruto exploding from 0 to 150 MPH in a split second would cause him to weight more then Gamabunta. And since SM naruto jumped off of Gamakichis head and hes not a pancake its safe to say SM naruto didnt take off very fast meaning he didnt move super fast "covering 100 yards in a second" without such explosiveness.

Now Im not saying SM naruto cant get up to high speeds after sprinting a good distance before, but without explosive speed theres no way in hell naruto could cover so much distance in such a short amount of time wihtout a T/S jutsu which isnt the case. Leaving only the hard truth for naruto fanatics to bear, SM naruto isnt any where near as fast as we thought.

Awwww, sustainment!

Dagoro
06-16-2009, 11:49 PM
Only KYF can keep this shit going for almost 20 pages.....Hail the king of trolls.

saiyaman
06-16-2009, 11:52 PM
Just because Lee "appears" to be faster than Naruto doesn't mean that he has a chance of beating him. Heck the wind from Naruto's missing punches would knock Lee far far away. If Naruto connects, then Lee won't be able to keep up his speed.

Remember one more thing. Naruto's sage mode lasts for over 5 minutes if he doesn't use any shadow clones, it doesn't have any negative effects on his body unless he decides to deliberately unbalance nature chakra and turn into a frog. Finally, when he is one with nature, his chakra+kyuubi's chakra inside him+natural chakra=VIRTUALLY UNLIMITED CHAKRA.

Now coming to Lee, his gates give him a temporary boost in abilities just like Naruto. Unfortunately, the negative effects on his body aren't dependent whether he is deliberate or not. Face it: his body will suffer damage as long as he uses gates whether he wants it or not.

The last time I saw the gates, it only meant that the user gains Hokage level strength temporarily and that happens ONLY when Lee uses EIGHT gates. Five gates are crap against Naruto. And the final blow is: He doesn't have unlimited chakra.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-17-2009, 12:09 AM
Just because Lee "appears" to be faster than Naruto doesn't mean that he has a chance of beating him. Heck the wind from Naruto's missing punches would knock Lee far far away. If Naruto connects, then Lee won't be able to keep up his speed.

Remember one more thing. Naruto's sage mode lasts for over 5 minutes if he doesn't use any shadow clones, it doesn't have any negative effects on his body unless he decides to deliberately unbalance nature chakra and turn into a frog. Finally, when he is one with nature, his chakra+kyuubi's chakra inside him+natural chakra=VIRTUALLY UNLIMITED CHAKRA.

Now coming to Lee, his gates give him a temporary boost in abilities just like Naruto. Unfortunately, the negative effects on his body aren't dependent whether he is deliberate or not. Face it: his body will suffer damage as long as he uses gates whether he wants it or not.

The last time I saw the gates, it only meant that the user gains Hokage level strength temporarily and that happens ONLY when Lee uses EIGHT gates. Five gates are crap against Naruto. And the final blow is: He doesn't have unlimited chakra.

Listen, I agree 5gates Lee has a window of opportunity "about 25 seconds" to take out SM naruto. However, It takes less then a split second for only genin 4gates Lee to deliver a lotus kick to the chin at twenty paces so PTS 5gates Lee "more explosive speed, power and striking force" would do it even faster, and far more force then what Gaara got hit with so come on.
And I know we havent seen Lee fight anyone yet it fact Lee trains harder then anyone else and after three years his physcal strength, weight and chakra pool would increase anyways without hard training thanks to growing up into a teenager so that proof enough because Lee for a fact has grown.

Now whats this wind fist stuff? If your refering to SM narutos NE barrier that hit HG realm Koing him its fact that its only a couple of inches because all there was between HG and narutos fist.

ANyways, lets agree to disagree when it comes to SM naruto vs PTS 5gates Lee, OK.

However, if someone is deluded enough to believe SM naruto> PTS or even BTS Gated Lee I must refer you to my earlier posts on this page because thats coo coo for coco puffs crazy!

saiyaman
06-17-2009, 12:28 AM
Listen, I agree 5gates Lee has a window of opportunity "about 25 seconds" to take out SM naruto. However, It takes less then a split second for only genin 4gates Lee to deliver a lotus kick to the chin at twenty paces so PTS 5gates Lee "more explosive speed, power and striking force" would do it even faster, and far more force then what Gaara got hit with so come on.
And I know we havent seen Lee fight anyone yet it fact Lee trains harder then anyone else and after three years his physcal strength, weight and chakra pool would increase anyways without hard training thanks to growing up into a teenager so that proof enough because Lee for a fact has grown.

Now whats this wind fist stuff? If your refering to SM narutos NE barrier that hit HG realm Koing him its fact that its only a couple of inches because all there was between HG and narutos fist.

ANyways, lets agree to disagree when it comes to SM naruto vs PTS 5gates Lee, OK.

However, if someone is deluded enough to believe SM naruto> PTS or even BTS Gated Lee I must refer you to my earlier posts on this page because thats coo coo for coco puffs crazy!

Okay you tell me what's the use of Lee hitting with his crappy strength in 4 or 5 gates on Sage Mode Naruto, when all Naruto would suffer is maximum a tiny scratch? Even that scratch would heal instantly due to Sage Mode's healing power.

And by the way its not a Natural Energy barrier like you said. It's just that in sage mode Naruto uses the Natural energy AROUND him to have a greater reach. Lee has to get closer to try and get a punch at Naruto.

I will not agree to your "Gated Lee can beat Naruto in Sage Mode" statement just because you want me to agree to it. Give me proper arguments instead of just blindly disagreeing to everything.

Myth
06-17-2009, 12:44 AM
Listen, I agree 5gates Lee has a window of opportunity "about 25 seconds" to take out SM naruto. However, It takes less then a split second for only genin 4gates Lee to deliver a lotus kick to the chin at twenty paces so PTS 5gates Lee "more explosive speed, power and striking force" would do it even faster, and far more force then what Gaara got hit with so come on.
And I know we havent seen Lee fight anyone yet it fact Lee trains harder then anyone else and after three years his physcal strength, weight and chakra pool would increase anyways without hard training thanks to growing up into a teenager so that proof enough because Lee for a fact has grown.

Now whats this wind fist stuff? If your refering to SM narutos NE barrier that hit HG realm Koing him its fact that its only a couple of inches because all there was between HG and narutos fist.

ANyways, lets agree to disagree when it comes to SM naruto vs PTS 5gates Lee, OK.

However, if someone is deluded enough to believe SM naruto> PTS or even BTS Gated Lee I must refer you to my earlier posts on this page because thats coo coo for coco puffs crazy!

lee couldn't beat naruto pts or bts naruto beat neji and garra 2 people who would mop the floors with lee 1 which did... his shit stain kick won't do anything garra got up nd walked out without a scratch.. nuff said..

and once again if lee beats naruto lee beats the entire aka sasuke jiraiya and oro as well as kakashi...

Vengeance
06-17-2009, 02:08 AM
Lo, I didnt say even one of those, but you did miss the part where you almost lost your virginity virginence. And where you hypocritically tell me I dont know anything about strategy meanwhile you dont even know the difference between a strategy and a tactic, lol.

Cheers dick-Lick!
I wake up to hear this crap again?

1. You keep mentioning PnJ for Naruto`s wins.

2. You keep saying that Lee can beat SM Naruto which means he could beat Pain in the same manner.

3. Sorry my mistake you said Lee could beat Sasuke with just 2 gates Here (http://forums.narutocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1721144&postcount=5127).

4. You keep mentioning how Naruto is slow. That he isn’t faster than Lee without weights which means he`s slower than Gaara.

5. By the way you fan him it seems like you think he’s the greatest ninja in this manga. You did after all claim that he was faster than Minato who frickin teleports BTW.

6. You keep mentioning your so called combat skills as a reference to how much more knowledgeable in fictional combat you are when compared to everyone else.

7. You also still can’t understand why everyone disagrees with you. It`s as if you know something that 95% of NL doesn`t. Implying that you think you`re smarter than all of us.

So you see you did in a way say those things Ron.

What`s this shit about virginity again? I currently mess around with 3 different girls back home. This isn`t even counting random hookups as I`ve been tolled I tend to be a whore when I`m drunk. I`ve also had sex with two different Japanese girls since I`ve been in Tokyo. But that`s nether here nor there & I don’t really see why you keep trying to imply that I don`t have sex I`m frickin 25 years old, live in NY, & don’t live with my parents. If you`re still a virgin at this age in NY then you`re ether really religious or one of the biggest losers on the planet.

About strategy vs tactics I don`t even recall doing that though if I did I really don`t give a shit. I miss used a word ooo is that the best you could do?

stubborn_d0nkey
06-17-2009, 04:56 AM
lol, why dont you guys stop mobbing against KYF. he has good points.
it is not very smart to say that if naruto can beat all the guys you mentioned (including pain). it is all about how users abilities match up.
for example. lee beat sasuke then lost against gaara and after sasuke was close to beating gaara. its a triangle. different shinobi have different abilities that match up or dont match up.

lee has a chance against naruto because naruto doesn't use genjutsu and practically dosn't use ninjutsu - he has rasengan which is practically a taijutsu extension/power-up
the only ranged attack he has is FRS which takes time (even though it is a relatively short period of time) and two shadow clones to make http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/432/02/
that is why gated lee has a chance, because this really turns into a taijutsu match where lee excels. gates improve his speed and power. about power, i might be mistaken but i believe that no brute, blunt, attack ever damaged gaara as much as lee did in gates - which shows power.
since this is almost turns into a taijutsu matchup and since lee in gates is faster than naruto (i hope you guys will at least admit this) and has significant power as well as a specialised technique he has a chance because taijutsu is about speed power and technique and if you look at those gated lee isn't at all far behind naruto.

however other shinobi have ninjutsu and more ranged attacks (im talking about the ones you mentioned) and for a taijutsu kid who is objectively way weaker than them even an enormous power up like gates wouldn't help as much as against naruto.

its probably 100 times less likely that lee can beat one of those you mentioned in comparison to naruto. its all about how shinobi match up.

oh i repeat that i am not saying that gated lee will win more matches than naruto out of (for example) 50 im just saying he will win imo at least a couple

please stop mobbing against KYF, his manners aren't always the best, neither are his arguments but he can have a point and you shouldn't reject anybodys opinion without giving it consideration even if it is somebody with a rep like KYF (nothing personal against you, just stating what other people think) and especially it is not very smart to reject a persons opinion if he wrote a long post which you decided not to read

lamps123
06-17-2009, 06:00 AM
[QUOTE=Shrike;1721189][QUOTE=TheSixthHokage;1721369][QUOTE=saiyaman;1721449]
[QUOTE=Dagoro;1721470][QUOTE=MikeyM1979;1721479]

For those who actually think SM naruto is faster then Gated Lee, HM Jman or even kakashi for that matter this will prove you wrong because no matter what Pa frog says naruto should be able to do actions speak louder then words and SM narutos actions here proves hes not as fast as HM Jman, Gated Lee, sasuke or even kakashi, Gai.

this isnt about SM naruto vs 5gates Lee anymore its about 5gates Lee vs SM naruto in speed. And the fact that I have to explain this is fucking rediculous!

For instance, SM naruto isnt even faster then any pain realm while HM Jman was clearly faster in his fight. Heres where HM Jman moved with explsoives speed, enough to destroy the ground somehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/377/12/
Heres where shrike said Jman wasnt fast because human realm blocked his attack yet all human realm did was move his arm a couple of inches to block Jmans attack that animal realm already saw comming. So, human realm can move his arm 8 inches the same speed HM jamn can move his entire body:rolleyes: Seriously, does that make human realm as fast as HM jman now:confused:
Here Jman uses a frog as a decoy then bltzes behind anilam realm, but animal realm summons a statue in time to block Jmans attack. SO, with the other realm watching Jman sneak up on animal realm, animal realmwas able to summon a shield manly use a t/s jutsu "summoning" to block Jmans attack so it took the speed of light to block Jmans attack.:rolleyes:
Here Jman just plain vanishes hes so fast and the others look suprised because of ithttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/378/02/

Now for SM naruto
This is the last time Im goning to explain this to this narutatds who actaully think SM naruto blitzed 100 yards in a second, but couldnt reach deva before he raised his hands, amied then fired his ST whne he was only three feet away, lol.
ANyways, here you can obviously see SM naruto senses the attack 5 panles before he finally shows up on demon. So, it took naruto 5 panels 2 speeches that I assure you werent super fast spoken speeches and if you look carefully you can see demons attacking in one panel then in the very next panle demons scorpion things are already out and about to touch tsunade meaning some time went by unbetween those two panels alone, it wasnt that fast of a transition of panels, then naruto lands. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/430/16/ Obviously narutos attack still wasnt any faster then his attack against hell realm herehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/04/ Naruto landed at the same time deva STed the real FRS that came right after the fake FRS of the shadow FRS attack which is fast, but not as fast as 1 second. And seeing as how naruto jumped the moment the smoke boms went off and didnt arrive till the real FRS did hes not even as fast as the sahdow FRS attack.
Here you can see SM naruto landing just as deva repells the real FRShttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/433/16/ proving hes no faster then it if not slower since deva said naruto had already jumped the momnet the smoke bombs went offhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/04/Proof!!!
Next naruto charges the realms and is intercepted by HG realm who manages to avoid narutos attack while making his own after it takes him three pages, the boss summons taking outy the pain summons before he finnally reached the other realmshttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/431/09/
Heres naruto running slow as dickhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/431/10/
Herehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/431/11/s the boss summons jumping up and attacking the pain summons
ANd heres SM naruto finally reaching the other realms then missing his so called fast attackhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/431/12/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/431/13/
ANd heres naruto moving too slow to reach deva or his KB to punch HG who hes right on top of before deva can raise his arms, aim them, then attack with ST accutaly enougn to take out naruto and his KB without hurting HG realm who hes right on top ofhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/05/
^you can also see in this pic that SM naruto was already on his feet attacking before his hands were raised so why couldnt SM naruto reach him before he aimed then shot his ST? Hes not that fast, lamo!
Again naruto attacks a realm and misses forcing Bunta to suck them both up so naruto can land an attack on a realm that cant even see himhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/432/12/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/432/16/
ANd here is the PNJ that still couldnt catch deva whos not even that fast, lol. Just Look how the Shadow FRS which is faster then SM naruto proved when it arrived before he did in the atatck against Hell realm. But look how the three "naruto, his KBS are in the smoke", yet there is two hendged KBS that Grab Deva "PNJ as fuck", fail, then about fifty hedged KBS attack and still fail "PNJ as fucking hell!". Then finally with assistance from his KBs anruto finally moves fast enough to catch deva before the five seconds are up. SOmething that not even SM could do, lol.http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/442/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/442/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/442/17/

now, for Looks at real speed feats that are all either shown to be very fast or at least commented on how fast.
First is Lee Blitzing Gaara in a split second covering 5 times the distance SM naruto couldnt even cover to hit Devahttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/85/14/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/85/16/ Notice Lee moves with such explosive force that not on does the ground get annihilated, but the shockwave of air pressure created blows like a tornado causing kakashi to even praise Lees speed and he has a SG that makes fast movements look slower remember. Just showing how fast the attack really was!
Here sasuke blitzes Tobi the diedara who narrowly esacpes, but not before commenting on the speedhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/08/
Then Look and see how even deidara who was able to outmaneuver kyuubi juice naruto and Lee and Neji without arms proving hes pretty fast himself has this to say about sasukes speedhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/358/07/
Heres Gated Gai exploding so fast he destroys some ground the some kisame, lolhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/258/13/ WHats funny is $gates Lee destroyed even more ground and caused moe of a shockwave also.
Here Jman also destroys ground with explosive speedhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/377/12/
as well as disapears with explosive speed.http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/378/02/


Also, Keep in mind that When Jman fought pain the realms were looking from at least tow different points of veiw which allowed them to predict Jmans attacks more easily. However, when naruto fought the realms they wer all together looking from the same point of view and he still couldnt land any of his attacks without help from his deceptive NE arura on HG realm, buntas mouth in darkness for animal realm, the FRS for human realm, a ambush from above after using a shadow FRS as a decoy. And finally it took naruto alot of his KBS throwing him at a warn out deva realm to finally beat him. There was no high speed attacks that beat any single real, just deception, power of numbers and assistance from summons. ABsolutly no high speed at all.

In conclusion, no matter what you believe or how you may try and reinterprit this it clearly shows, not says that SM naruto isnt even faster then kakashi "most likly equal in speed" and definatly not faster then sasuke, gated Lee, Gai gates or base "its long been know hes faster then kakashi" or HM Jman.
couldnt be bothered to read everything,
but get this through your thick skull.
sage naruto>sasuemo>leee.

lamps123
06-17-2009, 06:04 AM
i tried reading it,really i did. but still i totally disagree with the jump 5panels before then BAM! as you know, pain bodies share vision. and the remaining 5 pains at back when rocket pain attacked is looking ahead.they would definitely see naruto if he jumps 5panels before,and rocket pain would react definitely, but he couldnt. therefore they were not able to see what naruto did.therefore, naruto is darn fast,or pain is just darn slow, which i know everyone would disagree too. so one thing is possible. Naruto is just darn fast.
the rest of the evidences you;ve shown from their fight just proves also one thing. Pain is also darn fast, but definitely slower than naruto. the jiraiya panels youve shown showcases how pain can deal with the speedblitz of HM jiraiya. all the other evidences showing speed feats, such as destroying ground etc etc, it could boil down to their speed being rough speed, and naruto's as gentle speed. you can't ask kishi to show Naruto breaking Gamabunta's Head when he jumped 5panels according to you, can you?
i rest my case, you wont understand my reason even when it is slapped left and right to your face then shoved up your arse.
no need to bother yourself bro.
in kyfs world he thinks rockets moves as slow as a snail.

saiyaman
06-17-2009, 07:54 AM
lol, why dont you guys stop mobbing against KYF. he has good points.
it is not very smart to say that if naruto can beat all the guys you mentioned (including pain). it is all about how users abilities match up.
for example. lee beat sasuke then lost against gaara and after sasuke was close to beating gaara. its a triangle. different shinobi have different abilities that match up or dont match up.

lee has a chance against naruto because naruto doesn't use genjutsu and practically dosn't use ninjutsu - he has rasengan which is practically a taijutsu extension/power-up
the only ranged attack he has is FRS which takes time (even though it is a relatively short period of time) and two shadow clones to make http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/432/02/
that is why gated lee has a chance, because this really turns into a taijutsu match where lee excels. gates improve his speed and power. about power, i might be mistaken but i believe that no brute, blunt, attack ever damaged gaara as much as lee did in gates - which shows power.
since this is almost turns into a taijutsu matchup and since lee in gates is faster than naruto (i hope you guys will at least admit this) and has significant power as well as a specialised technique he has a chance because taijutsu is about speed power and technique and if you look at those gated lee isn't at all far beyond naruto.

however other shinobi have ninjutsu and more ranged attacks (im talking about the ones you mentioned) and for a taijutsu kid who is objectively way weaker than them even an enormous power up like gates wouldn't help as much as against naruto.

its probably 100 times less likely that lee can beat one of those you mentioned in comparison to naruto. its all about how shinobi match up.

oh i repeat that i am not saying that gated lee will win more matches than naruto out of (for example) 50 im just saying he will win imo at least a couple

please stop mobbing against KYF, his manners aren't always the best, neither are his arguments but he can have a point and you shouldn't reject anybodys opinion without giving it consideration even if it is somebody with a rep like KYF (nothing personal against you, just stating what other people think) and especially it is not very smart to reject a persons opinion if he wrote a long post which you decided not to read

True man. We aren't rejecting people's opinions when they have a point. We reject people's opinion when they argue pointlessly, being stubborn and thinking what they say is right without looking at other people's points.

Look I accepted that Lee MIGHT be faster. All I said was how the heck can you expect him to beat Naruto just because he has 5 Gates when Naruto has Sage Mode?

I asked him that and he replies with some points. But in the end see what he says AGAIN:

"However, if someone is deluded enough to believe SM naruto> PTS or even BTS Gated Lee I must refer you to my earlier posts on this page because thats coo coo for coco puffs crazy!"

Now you expect me to agree with his "LEE pwns Naruto" stuff? Gimme a break! I need proper arguments as I stated in my earlier post.

Vengeance
06-17-2009, 08:12 AM
lol, why dont you guys stop mobbing against KYF. he has good points.
it is not very smart to say that if naruto can beat all the guys you mentioned (including pain). it is all about how users abilities match up.
for example. lee beat sasuke then lost against gaara and after sasuke was close to beating gaara. its a triangle. different shinobi have different abilities that match up or dont match up.
The problem is that Lee has never won a serious fight & never will. Ninja's do improve over time when Sasuke fought Gaara he was equal to Lee's normal speed & had sharingan aid as well as ninjutsu. This is why Sasuke was able to beat Gaara in his normal state. It has nothing to do with styles making fights & more to do with Sasuke's drastic improvement during his training with Kakashi. Even Lee was taken back by Sasuke's skill. Case in point Sasuke at this time would shit on Lee.

lee has a chance against naruto because naruto doesn't use genjutsu and practically dosn't use ninjutsu - he has rasengan which is practically a taijutsu extension/power-up
the only ranged attack he has is FRS which takes time (even though it is a relatively short period of time) and two shadow clones to make http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/432/02/
that is why gated lee has a chance, because this really turns into a taijutsu match where lee excels.
Rasengan, shadow clone, transformation, replacement, weapon summoning, & fuuton wind gust should all be considered forms of ninjutsu. K0N Naruto is faster than Lee in base form while Sage Mode grants Naruto enhanced speed, strength, durability, a chakra aura, & chakra awareness(making it easier for Naruto to track Lee's movement). FRS actually doesn't take long to create.


gates improve his speed and power. about power, i might be mistaken but i believe that no brute, blunt, attack ever damaged gaara as much as lee did in gates - which shows power.
Gates also don't last long & once finished leave Lee defenseless. Lee also isn't that strong on Gates if he couldn't even injure Gaara. Lee may or may not be faster than Naruto but it really doesn't matter if his hits have no effect on him. Lee would burn himself out before he'll be able to do any serious damage to Naruto just like in his fight against Gaara.


since this is almost turns into a taijutsu matchup and since lee in gates is faster than naruto (i hope you guys will at least admit this) and has significant power as well as a specialised technique he has a chance because taijutsu is about speed power and technique and if you look at those gated lee isn't at all far beyond naruto.
We actually don't know that for sure. Lee's opponent on gates was Gaara who at the time never moved when he fought. While Naruto in SM would be moving in his fight against Lee & is pretty fast himself. Again Lee's strength isn't that incredible if he couldn't even injure Gaara. Naruto has been taking power shots from Sakura time & time again in this manga & this is without Sage mode. All & all Naruto is actually a more capable taijutsu fighter then Lee as his tec doesn't burn him out after a few seconds.


however other shinobi have ninjutsu and more ranged attacks (im talking about the ones you mentioned) and for a taijutsu kid who is objectively way weaker than them even an enormous power up like gates wouldn't help as much as against naruto.
I'm a little tired of retards who think that Naruto doesn't know allot of jutsu. Naruto actually knows more jutsu when compared to most in this manga. The only one's that really have more jutsu then Naruto are Sharingan/Rinnegan users & a Sannin.

See big flaws in your theory man. Naruto in SM can anticipate attacks with his chakra sensory abilities & can take more physical damage. Yeah Lee brakes the ground by running however this is because he lacks proper control in his movement & he's applying unnecessary pressure to the ground beneath him. While Naruto simply fell & was able to brake stone spikes with his body. Let's also not forget about the giant rhino.

probably 100 times less likely that lee can beat one of those you mentioned in comparison to naruto. its all about how shinobi match up.
Lee can't beat anyone he's never won a serious fight. Lee is a joke character that was created in an attempt to bash Bruce Lee. BTW I'll put money on this Lee will never beat anyone creditable other then fodder ninja.

oh i repeat that i am not saying that gated lee will win more matches than naruto out of (for example) 50 im just saying he will win imo at least a couple
Like who? Ino? yeah Lee can beat her. Anyone that's actually a creditable jounin/kage level fighter? Na never gonna happen.

please stop mobbing against KYF, his manners aren't always the best, neither are his arguments but he can have a point and you shouldn't reject anybodys opinion without giving it consideration even if it is somebody with a rep like KYF (nothing personal against you, just stating what other people think) and especially it is not very smart to reject a persons opinion if he wrote a long post which you decided not to read
KY ask for a mobbing & apparently you're asking for it as well. We reject it because it's the rantings of a rabid fan devoid of all logic. If he actually had creditable points a mobbing wouldn't happen. We all disagree with each other from time to time but at least some of us actually make sense. KY's post are repeated rantings that go on for 20 pages & he hasn't said anything remotely new on the subject for a while now so why should we bother to read through all of that trash?

Edit: Anyway I'm going out later.

poolangya
06-17-2009, 07:38 PM
LMAO! Why was SM naruto not fast enough poolangya?

LMAO, you fail sustains me!

EDIT: Let me explain speed to you noob. When exploding from 0 to 150 in a 4th of a second you cause damage to w/e your standing on because Mass times acceleration = force. Meaning SM naruto exploding from 0 to 150 MPH in a split second would cause him to weight more then Gamabunta. And since SM naruto jumped off of Gamakichis head and hes not a pancake its safe to say SM naruto didnt take off very fast meaning he didnt move super fast "covering 100 yards in a second" without such explosiveness.

Now Im not saying SM naruto cant get up to high speeds after sprinting a good distance before, but without explosive speed theres no way in hell naruto could cover so much distance in such a short amount of time wihtout a T/S jutsu which isnt the case. Leaving only the hard truth for naruto fanatics to bear, SM naruto isnt any where near as fast as we thought.

Awwww, sustainment!

haha trying to explain speed using the formula of F=mA, just brilliant. No wonder why fail sustains you. yet it is true that the faster the acceleration of one body to another results in larger force required to do so, i have to remind you that this is manga, where we see characters fly. thus the gentle speed i talk of is not impossible, and explosive speed is not canonz.. quit trying to back your claim with science, you're looking the fool.

NeoKakarott023
06-17-2009, 08:41 PM
KYF, I'm not against anyone but do you really believe Lee can beat Naruto, Sasuke, etc??? The kyuubi protects Naruto who took at least one chidori to the heart from Sasuke and he got stronger. Lee can't withstand the same punishment as Naruto, neither can Sasuke, so their tactics must almost be perfect in a battle vs. Naruto. Sasuke's Sharingan offers him some protection, but Lee's only protection is in a liquor bottle and he'd eventually get knocked out of the Drunken Monkey Style. Lee is a capable shinobi, just not Jounin or above class. I also agree there are some Jounin that suck...Anko, Kurenai, Gai sometimes seems like he was in the same class with the genin but I guess he is kinda powerful and smart if he beat Kakashi. I won't say its impossible for Lee to defeat uber shinobi, he just has to be on top of his 'A' game and fight an almost perfect match unlike vs. Gaara, he can never be caught or he's done.

Myth
06-17-2009, 08:56 PM
KYF, I'm not against anyone but do you really believe Lee can beat Naruto, Sasuke, etc??? The kyuubi protects Naruto who took at least one chidori to the heart from Sasuke and he got stronger. Lee can't withstand the same punishment as Naruto, neither can Sasuke, so their tactics must almost be perfect in a battle vs. Naruto. Sasuke's Sharingan offers him some protection, but Lee's only protection is in a liquor bottle and he'd eventually get knocked out of the Drunken Monkey Style. Lee is a capable shinobi, just not Jounin or above class. I also agree there are some Jounin that suck...Anko, Kurenai, Gai sometimes seems like he was in the same class with the genin but I guess he is kinda powerful and smart if he beat Kakashi. I won't say its impossible for Lee to defeat uber shinobi, he just has to be on top of his 'A' game and fight an almost perfect match unlike vs. Gaara, he can never be caught or he's done.


gai never beat kakashi at anything other then foolish games like rock paper scissor, and eating contests.

NeoKakarott023
06-17-2009, 09:00 PM
gai never beat kakashi at anything other then foolish games like rock paper scissor, and eating contests.

Though we've never seen all the battles they've had the assumption they've fought each other by what Gai says but I wasn't quoting that as fact, I was trying to spread some love to Gai, but to me he sucks as well as the other jounin I named. I think he's overrated.

Myth
06-17-2009, 09:09 PM
Though we've never seen all the battles they've had the assumption they've fought each other by what Gai says but I wasn't quoting that as fact, I was trying to spread some love to Gai, but to me he sucks as well as the other jounin I named. I think he's overrated.

when did gai imply that they fought?

NeoKakarott023
06-17-2009, 09:50 PM
when did gai imply that they fought?

I thought during the Chuunin Exams, I mean he was like a fight play by play, yip, yap, yip, yap....I thought he said he'd fought against the sharingan and he could take Itachi on when they had their battle too. But if he didn't cool, I think Kakashi would whoop him anyhow, too many techs, too many jutsu's, and besides the gates everything can be copied by Kakashi anyhow.

pesass
06-18-2009, 02:41 AM
I am wondering too how Gai was able to defeat Kakashi at anything. Maybe because of his speed.
What I think is funny is that Naruto (and Sasuke) is still a Genin. He is one of the strongest or the strongest of the village but he has still the lowest rank. That is stupid. I wonder what Kishi will do here. I don't think that he is just making him from Genin to the Hokage.

stubborn_d0nkey
06-18-2009, 07:27 AM
The problem is that Lee has never won a serious fight & never will.
this is your opinion, a believe he has won a serious fight of the utmost difficulty
Ninja's do improve over time when Sasuke fought Gaara he was equal to Lee's normal speed & had sharingan aid as well as ninjutsu. This is why Sasuke was able to beat Gaara in his normal state. It has nothing to do with styles making fights & more to do with Sasuke's drastic improvement during his training with Kakashi. Even Lee was taken back by Sasuke's skill. Case in point Sasuke at this time would shit on Lee.
i agree, i was very reluctant to state that example but i couldn't really think of a better one since three way fights in a short time have rarely been shown or occurred. however do you think sasuke would do anything differently in the fight? im not really sure. he would be faster but then lee could take off his weights to match the speed.

Rasengan, shadow clone, transformation, replacement, weapon summoning, & fuuton wind gust should all be considered forms of ninjutsu. K0N Naruto is faster than Lee in base form while Sage Mode grants Naruto enhanced speed, strength, durability, a chakra aura, & chakra awareness(making it easier for Naruto to track Lee's movement). FRS actually doesn't take long to create.
i know about those ninjutsu and i mentioned rasengan since i was tihnking mostly about attacks not 'support' ninjutsu. which i thought was at least a little clear do to the next row


Gates also don't last long & once finished leave Lee defenseless. Lee also isn't that strong on Gates if he couldn't even injure Gaara. Lee may or may not be faster than Naruto but it really doesn't matter if his hits have no effect on him. Lee would burn himself out before he'll be able to do any serious damage to Naruto just like in his fight against Gaara.
he couldnt injure gaara because of gaaras defenses which work much better vs blunt attacks then versus ninjutsu, what he has accomplished versus gara was remarkable as was stated at that point gaara never even got a scratch before even though he was chased by (if i am not mistaken) very strong sand ninja all the time.

and i do believe that lee could hurt naruto, especially in gates.



We actually don't know that for sure. Lee's opponent on gates was Gaara who at the time never moved when he fought. While Naruto in SM would be moving in his fight against Lee & is pretty fast himself. Again Lee's strength isn't that incredible if he couldn't even injure Gaara. Naruto has been taking power shots from Sakura time & time again in this manga & this is without Sage mode. All & all Naruto is actually a more capable taijutsu fighter then Lee as his tec doesn't burn him out after a few seconds.
if the speed of lee cant be proved to you then lets leave that out of the discussion, and about strength i talked about above. does naruto take sakuras punches like they were nothing? no.
i never said lee was a more capable tai-fighter than naruto, as you can clearly see at the end of the part you quoted "gated lee isn't at all far beyond naruto" lol, my mistake, sorry. i usually have at least 2-3 slip.ups in longer posts. it was supposed to be behind not beyondm i was thinking ahead like always.
so to state, we agree that naruto is a better taijutsu fighter




I'm a little tired of retards who think that Naruto doesn't know allot of jutsu. Naruto actually knows more jutsu when compared to most in this manga. The only one's that really have more jutsu then Naruto are Sharingan/Rinnegan users & a Sannin.
as i stated above i was mostly talking about attacks so please dont count me in with the retards (i recognize two types of rasengans + FRS and normal. the varioation are mostly in size and number and since naruto likes naming he named them, however i do respect anybody who recognbizes more than two)

See big flaws in your theory man. Naruto in SM can anticipate attacks with his chakra sensory abilities & can take more physical damage.

im only 60& sure but i think we haven't seen naruto SM anticipate attaks. at lčeast non at lees speed
Yeah Lee brakes the ground by running however this is because he lacks proper control in his movement & he's applying unnecessary pressure to the ground beneath him. While Naruto simply fell & was able to brake stone spikes with his body. Let's also not forget about the giant rhino.
this is relevant to something somebody else stated not me


Lee can't beat anyone he's never won a serious fight. Lee is a joke character that was created in an attempt to bash Bruce Lee. BTW I'll put money on this Lee will never beat anyone creditable other then fodder ninja.
he has won at least one serious fight imho and the rest is just your opinion so no real relevance to what i am trying to convey


Like who? Ino? yeah Lee can beat her. Anyone that's actually a creditable jounin/kage level fighter? Na never gonna happen.
this has no relevance with the part you quoted, or a distant relevance that isnt clear (it often happens to me that i make several connections in my head and then state something that seems like it doesnt make sense since the connections aren't communicated so i will assume this is the result of something similar and not stupidity)

KY ask for a mobbing & apparently you're asking for it as well. We reject it because it's the rantings of a rabid fan devoid of all logic. If he actually had creditable points a mobbing wouldn't happen. We all disagree with each other from time to time but at least some of us actually make sense. KY's post are repeated rantings that go on for 20 pages & he hasn't said anything remotely new on the subject for a while now so why should we bother to read through all of that trash?
he does often repeat the same stuff, but i have usually seen that as a mutuality between him vs. the rest. as it often happens that different users write the same thing so he gives the same reply to them all. or if he is up ahgainst myth he also repeats alot.


i am not asking for mobbing at all

i am just trying to convey one thing (which might not be the same as KYF):
lee CAN beat naruto. It is NOT more likely. And that does NOT mean lee is better than naruto and i do not believe that.

you have shown some downsides to gated lee but still nobody has shown how those downsides would prevent a gated lee from wining 2-3 out 50 battles with naruto which i think is very likely and what i am trying to convey and get accepted

naruto_nutty
06-18-2009, 07:59 AM
this is the most fucking longest thread ever damn damn damn.

Has anyone argued Kimimaru vs sasuke, that woyld be an interesting battle even now either that or an all Girls Bikini Oil-wrestling match.

Now that i would paid to see, my money is on Tsunade, touching em out with those pillows!!!!

NeoKakarott023
06-18-2009, 09:57 AM
I'm not sure myself but there aren't a lot of Sasuke fans besides myself so everyone will prolly say Kimmimaro > Sasuke especially since he has no cursed seal action.

superninja
06-18-2009, 05:40 PM
I think most people would say present Sasuke wins over Kimimaro, the main question is can Sasuke cut through Kimimaro's bones with chidori easily, or would Kimimaro's bone defense stop chidori, so if chidori easily cuts through Kimimaro's bones then Sasuke wins for sure, but if it doesn't then Sasuke would have more trouble winning. Also, if Kimimaro is healthy and has more endurance then he could use that bone forest move and still fight after that, which would make him very though to beat, maybe high jounin lvl. Because he can move through the bone forest very fast and do sneak attacks and stuff like that. My opinion is chidori could cut through Kimi's defense so that is why Sasuke wins, also amateratsu would melt those bones in time.

Dagoro
06-18-2009, 05:44 PM
Current Sasuke vs Kimi

Sasuke wins, mostly because of MS.

NeoKakarott023
06-18-2009, 07:08 PM
He seems to have been physically, and chakra wise stronger at cs2, while his gen hax has made up for some of that for me, I have to see him in an all out fight since KB, did he learn something, or some new techs from the akatsuki archives???

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-19-2009, 04:18 PM
haha trying to explain speed using the formula of F=mA, just brilliant. No wonder why fail sustains you. yet it is true that the faster the acceleration of one body to another results in larger force required to do so, i have to remind you that this is manga, where we see characters fly. thus the gentle speed i talk of is not impossible, and explosive speed is not canonz.. quit trying to back your claim with science, you're looking the fool.

LMAO! You critisise me for stating basic physics then say you agree:confused: WFT?

And even though this is a fictional manga gravity, electromagnatism ect ect still apply like physics as well. no characters can fly, lol, only more at high speeds or jump very high, no flying. So your theory of SM naruto using gentle explosive speed is fail because physics still applies meaning explosions of speed arent gentle.

LMAO! I use science and combat knowledge while you use uneducated bias oppinion, lol. I wonder which one is more accurate:rolleyes: Lol, whats next? Up is down is left is portugal? Just quit BSing acting like just because this is a fictional story that nonfictional laws of physics dont apply even though no one has broken them.

@Neokakarrot:

I never said Lee could beat SM naruto at base. However, PTS 5gates Lee will have the explosive speed, power and attacks more then capable of KOing even SM naruto. but, I never said PTS 5gates Lee could beat any kyuubi form after SM naruto is KOed or anything else simply because gated Lee has 25 seconds to get the job done or he loses.

Anyways, this has become more about PTS 5gates Lees speed vs SM narutos even though SM naruto showed no extraordinary speed in his fight with pain. This is just retarted fanning at its worst.


EDIT: MS sasuke vs Kimimarro?

Sasukes faster with raiton jutsu that can pierce through anything including Kimis dense bones. And sasuke also has SG genjutsu that would rape Kimi as well, not even including tsukuyomi because thats over kill IMO.

Sasuke wins!

Myth
06-19-2009, 04:28 PM
I thought during the Chuunin Exams, I mean he was like a fight play by play, yip, yap, yip, yap....I thought he said he'd fought against the sharingan and he could take Itachi on when they had their battle too. But if he didn't cool, I think Kakashi would whoop him anyhow, too many techs, too many jutsu's, and besides the gates everything can be copied by Kakashi anyhow.

nah that was in the anime nd gai's sharingan method wouldn't work on itachi cause he can cast genjutsu with body parts lol nd itachi would just whoop gai's ass... but yeah kakashi nd gai never fought

lamps123
06-19-2009, 05:50 PM
LMAO! You critisise me for stating basic physics then say you agree:confused: WFT?

And even though this is a fictional manga gravity, electromagnatism ect ect still apply like physics as well. no characters can fly, lol, only more at high speeds or jump very high, no flying. So your theory of SM naruto using gentle explosive speed is fail because physics still applies meaning explosions of speed arent gentle.

LMAO! I use science and combat knowledge while you use uneducated bias oppinion, lol. I wonder which one is more accurate:rolleyes: Lol, whats next? Up is down is left is portugal? Just quit BSing acting like just because this is a fictional story that nonfictional laws of physics dont apply even though no one has broken them.

@Neokakarrot:

I never said Lee could beat SM naruto at base. However, PTS 5gates Lee will have the explosive speed, power and attacks more then capable of KOing even SM naruto. but, I never said PTS 5gates Lee could beat any kyuubi form after SM naruto is KOed or anything else simply because gated Lee has 25 seconds to get the job done or he loses.

Anyways, this has become more about PTS 5gates Lees speed vs SM narutos even though SM naruto showed no extraordinary speed in his fight with pain. This is just retarted fanning at its worst.


EDIT: MS sasuke vs Kimimarro?

Sasukes faster with raiton jutsu that can pierce through anything including Kimis dense bones. And sasuke also has SG genjutsu that would rape Kimi as well, not even including tsukuyomi because thats over kill IMO.

Sasuke wins!
let me explain to you as i am studying physics myself and you fail in even high school physics.force is directly proportional to mass and acceleration but dosent mean the greater the acceleration the greater the mass because acceleration is inversely proportional to mass (to check you simply divide both sides of the equation by mass).
so the lower/lesser the mass the greater the acceleration and vice versa.
coming here to state false high school physics men you are soo funny.
you fail sooo badd thank god i saw that.

poolangya
06-19-2009, 06:44 PM
LMAO! You critisise me for stating basic physics then say you agree:confused: WFT?

And even though this is a fictional manga gravity, electromagnatism ect ect still apply like physics as well. no characters can fly, lol, only more at high speeds or jump very high, no flying. So your theory of SM naruto using gentle explosive speed is fail because physics still applies meaning explosions of speed arent gentle.

LMAO! I use science and combat knowledge while you use uneducated bias oppinion, lol. I wonder which one is more accurate:rolleyes: Lol, whats next? Up is down is left is portugal? Just quit BSing acting like just because this is a fictional story that nonfictional laws of physics dont apply even though no one has broken them.

@Neokakarrot:

I never said Lee could beat SM naruto at base. However, PTS 5gates Lee will have the explosive speed, power and attacks more then capable of KOing even SM naruto. but, I never said PTS 5gates Lee could beat any kyuubi form after SM naruto is KOed or anything else simply because gated Lee has 25 seconds to get the job done or he loses.

Anyways, this has become more about PTS 5gates Lees speed vs SM narutos even though SM naruto showed no extraordinary speed in his fight with pain. This is just retarted fanning at its worst.


EDIT: MS sasuke vs Kimimarro?

Sasukes faster with raiton jutsu that can pierce through anything including Kimis dense bones. And sasuke also has SG genjutsu that would rape Kimi as well, not even including tsukuyomi because thats over kill IMO.

Sasuke wins!


backing up a manga claim using science is really dumb i tell you. so just quite using your "knowledge" of physics, martial arts, etc etc to back ur claim, as you only lose more credibility. as for my counterargument of your "must-have" destructive explosive speed, have you ever wondered what else can be the use of chakra manipulation through their feet? only to walk on water? these chakra manipulated to the feet may be used as cushions to lessen impact or as another platform. no science thar.
i have no bias against lee coz he's cool wit his taijutsu mastery especially the drunken + gates, but lee is pretty much screwed if he goes against naruto at this point and stage. pretty much this is my "uneducated" opinion but at least it is not a "mal-educated" one.
and yeah, you're 24? so rocks.

@ MS sasuke vs Kimimaru (wit full health)
MS sasuke will win, he has the right arsenals to go against kimimaru. i give this sasuke 8-2 kimimaru.
@ CS sasuke vs kimimaru (full health)
this will be tougher because kimimaru is strong in CS form. but i still give sasuke the edge because he can fly. sasuke takes this sasuke 6-4 kimimaru.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
06-19-2009, 07:06 PM
let me explain to you as i am studying physics myself and you fail in even high school physics.force is directly proportional to mass and acceleration but dosent mean the greater the acceleration the greater the mass because acceleration is inversely proportional to mass (to check you simply divide both sides of the equation by mass).
so the lower/lesser the mass the greater the acceleration and vice versa.
coming here to state false high school physics men you are soo funny.
you fail sooo badd thank god i saw that.

Oh really because by increasing the mass or acceleration the force is increased which is why massxacceleration=force. And mass and acceleration arent proportional which is why mass is multiplied by acceleration, not merely added.

And WFT are you saying decrease mass and acceleration increases or vica versa?

Lol, critisise me about being wrong, but your wrong you fool "mass and acceleration are proportional" lol. So, not only aere you a hypocrite, but your a dunce.

backing up a manga claim using science is really dumb i tell you. so just quite using your "knowledge" of physics, martial arts, etc etc to back ur claim, as you only lose more credibility. as for my counterargument of your "must-have" destructive explosive speed, have you ever wondered what else can be the use of chakra manipulation through their feet? only to walk on water? these chakra manipulated to the feet may be used as cushions to lessen impact or as another platform. no science thar.
i have no bias against lee coz he's cool wit his taijutsu mastery especially the drunken + gates, but lee is pretty much screwed if he goes against naruto at this point and stage. pretty much this is my "uneducated" opinion but at least it is not a "mal-educated" one.
and yeah, you're 24? so rocks.

@ MS sasuke vs Kimimaru (wit full health)
MS sasuke will win, he has the right arsenals to go against kimimaru. i give this sasuke 8-2 kimimaru.
@ CS sasuke vs kimimaru (full health)
this will be tougher because kimimaru is strong in CS form. but i still give sasuke the edge because he can fly. sasuke takes this sasuke 6-4 kimimaru.

Dude, what proof do you have naruto used chakra control to speed himself up. None!

Also, even if naruto used chakra control to get a better grip on the ground. if he moved as fast as people retartedly give him credit for the ground would be ripped right out from under him from the force of his explosive take off.

I mean there no such thing as a gentle explosion fiction or nonfiction seriouly! You tell me not to use physics or MA knowhow, the manga panles i posted completely back me up that SM naruto isnt even faster then kakashi much less sasuke, gated lee, gai or HM Jman.

Honestly, post me manga panles proof of naruto miving at a high speed comperable to either sasuke, gated Lee ect? No BS, but the panles showing SM naruto moving very fast or someone commenting on his speed?

Xicidal
06-19-2009, 07:35 PM
Oh really because by increasing the mass or acceleration the force is increased which is why massxacceleration=force. And mass and acceleration arent proportional which is why mass is multiplied by acceleration, not merely added.

And WFT are you saying decrease mass and acceleration increases or vica versa?

Lol, critisise me about being wrong, but your wrong you fool "mass and acceleration are proportional" lol. So, not only aere you a hypocrite, but your a dunce.



Dude, what proof do you have naruto used chakra control to speed himself up. None!

Also, even if naruto used chakra control to get a better grip on the ground. if he moved as fast as people retartedly give him credit for the ground would be ripped right out from under him from the force of his explosive take off.

I mean there no such thing as a gentle explosion fiction or nonfiction seriouly! You tell me not to use physics or MA knowhow, the manga panles i posted completely back me up that SM naruto isnt even faster then kakashi much less sasuke, gated lee, gai or HM Jman.

Honestly, post me manga panles proof of naruto miving at a high speed comperable to either sasuke, gated Lee ect? No BS, but the panles showing SM naruto moving very fast or someone commenting on his speed?

you claim to have an understanding of physics but don't understand why naruto stoping and tossing a giant rhino proves he extremely durable and strong. Why don't you go try catching and throwing a car into the air with your hands.

Honestly in my opinion you are full of shit and not credible. There have been many occasion where the manga and you say different. That is why everyone rips you so bad, its not just your interpretations. Ohh, please try to spell things correctly, it might make you seem to have atleast some credibility.

lamps123
06-19-2009, 11:19 PM
[QUOTE=Konnaha_yellow_flash;1724143]Oh really because by increasing the mass or acceleration the force is increased which is why massxacceleration=force. And mass and acceleration arent proportional which is why mass is multiplied by acceleration, not merely added.

And WFT are you saying decrease mass and acceleration increases or vica versa?

Lol, critisise me about being wrong, but your wrong you fool "mass and acceleration are proportional" lol. So, not only aere you a hypocrite, but your a dunce.[QUOTE]

its a disgrace for me to argue with you about physics you know nothing this is simple high school physics you cant comprehend talk less of the kind of physics i am doing(particle accelerators)lol
let me make it simple.
F=MA
F IS PROPORTIONAL TO MASS
F IS ALSO PROPORTIONAL TO MASS
A=F/M
A PROPORTIONAL TO FORCE
A IS ALSO INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL TO MASS
MEANING AN INCREASE IN MASS IS A DECREASE IN ACCELERATION
M=F/A
M IS PROPORTIONAL TO MASS BUT INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL TO ACCELERATION,MEANING AND INCREASE IN ACCELERATION A DECREASE IN MASS.
THATS THE ORGIN OF MY STATEMENT IF IN DOUBT ASK YOUR DAD THATS IF HE KNOWS PHYSICS OR ANY ONE THAT KNOWS OR STUDIES PHYSICS
ITS CALLED NEWTONS SECOND LAW OF MOTION
AND WAS DERIVED FROM F=M(V-U)/T.
I HOPE THAT EXPLAINS A LOT TO YOU IF NOT GO BACK TO YOUR HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER HE WOULD EXPLAIN LOL

lamps123
06-19-2009, 11:23 PM
you claim to have an understanding of physics but don't understand why naruto stoping and tossing a giant rhino proves he extremely durable and strong. Why don't you go try catching and throwing a car into the air with your hands.

Honestly in my opinion you are full of shit and not credible. There have been many occasion where the manga and you say different. That is why everyone rips you so bad, its not just your interpretations. Ohh, please try to spell things correctly, it might make you seem to have atleast some credibility.
not only that he fails in the physics example he gives i am studying aeronautic engineering and he is saying rubbish (mass and acceleration are proportional lol) he is a freaking dumb-ass i mean high school physics and he fails,

saiyaman
06-20-2009, 01:11 AM
Oh really because by increasing the mass or acceleration the force is increased which is why massxacceleration=force. And mass and acceleration arent proportional which is why mass is multiplied by acceleration, not merely added.

And WFT are you saying decrease mass and acceleration increases or vica versa?

Lol, critisise me about being wrong, but your wrong you fool "mass and acceleration are proportional" lol. So, not only aere you a hypocrite, but your a dunce.



Dude, what proof do you have naruto used chakra control to speed himself up. None!

Also, even if naruto used chakra control to get a better grip on the ground. if he moved as fast as people retartedly give him credit for the ground would be ripped right out from under him from the force of his explosive take off.

I mean there no such thing as a gentle explosion fiction or nonfiction seriouly! You tell me not to use physics or MA knowhow, the manga panles i posted completely back me up that SM naruto isnt even faster then kakashi much less sasuke, gated lee, gai or HM Jman.

Honestly, post me manga panles proof of naruto miving at a high speed comperable to either sasuke, gated Lee ect? No BS, but the panles showing SM naruto moving very fast or someone commenting on his speed?

First of all stop bringing real world laws of physics into a fictional manga. So what if your physics stuff is right? Who cares about that when you can't shoot fireballs out of your mouth or Rasengan a rock out of your own way?

You want manga "panles" proof of Naruto moving at a high speed? Check out the latest chapter which has BASE Naruto having a better speed.

superninja
06-20-2009, 06:24 AM
I hate to see my good friend KYF being ganged all the time so let's end this, Naruto in sage mode is faster than Gai and Lee and he can't be hurt even by gated Lee's punches coz he has the NE shield and Kyubi regeneration. Not.
Now we can move on to the next fight, how about Itachi vs Naruto, no restrictions.

saiyaman
06-20-2009, 07:29 AM
Not or whatnot. We expect a proper debate.

I still say Sage Mode Naruto cannot be beaten by a 5 gated Lee. 8 Gates might be possible but 5?

NOT!

superninja
06-20-2009, 07:52 AM
Not or whatnot. We expect a proper debate.

I still say Sage Mode Naruto cannot be beaten by a 5 gated Lee. 8 Gates might be possible but 5?

NOT!

I don't have the energy or the skill for a proper debate, and this subject has been overdiscussed already, so I am just going to state my opinions from now on. My opinion is anyone can be beaten, Naruto is overall stronger than Lee obviously, but Lee would have a shot at him if goes all out like against Gara. The problem is Naruto could counter that by creating mass bunshins and going into hiding because Naruto has seen the gate mode before, ergo that is a big advantage for him. But my opinion is a punch from Gated Lee would be able to hurt Naruto's real body. So Naruto wins this, not by enduring gated Lee's punches or going into taijutsu exchange with him, but by deceiving him somehow.
Let's discuss Itachi vs Naruto
I say Itachi wins this.

lamps123
06-20-2009, 07:58 AM
I don't have the energy or the skill for a proper debate, and this subject has been overdiscussed already, so I am just going to state my opinions from now on. My opinion is anyone can be beaten, Naruto is overall stronger than Lee obviously, but Lee would have a shot at him if goes all out like against Gara. The problem is Naruto could counter that by creating mass bunshins and going into hiding because Naruto has seen the gate mode before, ergo that is a big advantage for him. But my opinion is a punch from Gated Lee would be able to hurt Naruto's real body. So Naruto wins this, not by enduring gated Lee's punches or going into taijutsu exchange with him, but by deceiving him somehow.
Let's discuss Itachi vs Naruto
I say Itachi wins this.
i had to thank you lol you talk sensibly lol
yeah i think itachi wins to but naruto would put up a better fight than last time.lol

saiyaman
06-20-2009, 08:07 AM
I don't have the energy or the skill for a proper debate, and this subject has been overdiscussed already, so I am just going to state my opinions from now on. My opinion is anyone can be beaten, Naruto is overall stronger than Lee obviously, but Lee would have a shot at him if goes all out like against Gara. The problem is Naruto could counter that by creating mass bunshins and going into hiding because Naruto has seen the gate mode before, ergo that is a big advantage for him. But my opinion is a punch from Gated Lee would be able to hurt Naruto's real body. So Naruto wins this, not by enduring gated Lee's punches or going into taijutsu exchange with him, but by deceiving him somehow.
Let's discuss Itachi vs Naruto
I say Itachi wins this.

Now that's what I'm talking about! A well analyzed post which outlines the situation properly.

Itachi would win against Naruto hands down pre-Sage Mode. Even with Sage Mode on, Naruto would find it really difficult unless he somehow learned to break out of Tsukiyomi. I dunno how Sasuke overcame it but either it was because of his Sharingan or probably due to the fact that Itachi was seeking to corner him. As far as I know, Naruto almost broke through Itachi's genjutsu but that was just the tip of the iceberg compared to what Tsukiyomi is capable of. And oh yeah, I guess Naruto was knocked out of the genjutsu by either Sakura's or Kakashi's chakra.

NeoKakarott023
06-20-2009, 11:36 PM
Not or whatnot. We expect a proper debate.

I still say Sage Mode Naruto cannot be beaten by a 5 gated Lee. 8 Gates might be possible but 5?

NOT!

I'd have to agree without dissing anyone, 5 gated Lee couldn't knock out Gaara so why would a genin move ko a next level Naruto, dosen't make sense. He could deliver the blow, maybe but my guess it wouldn't hurt Sage Naruto, or it'd be reversed because he's seen it before when Lee was a genin. Also 8 gated Lee won't ever be seen because he'd die after going to all 8 heavenly gates.

Myth
06-21-2009, 12:30 AM
Not or whatnot. We expect a proper debate.

I still say Sage Mode Naruto cannot be beaten by a 5 gated Lee. 8 Gates might be possible but 5?

NOT!

saiyamn a tip for you bro superninja is kyf number 2 he gets clowned on just as much as kyf does... their posts are very similar nd they always agree on the same thing he's prob a dupe of kyf for sure.


anyway here's a fight:

Shino vs Garra (garra has no shukaku)

same place garra fought naruto.

Dagoro
06-21-2009, 01:28 AM
Well we don't know how much Gaara has fallen after the extraction, but correct me if im wrong, but isn't his sand shield not connected with the Shukaku ??

I remember it being mentioned during the CE that it was sand embued with chakra but not specifically if it was Ichibi's chakra.

Anyway, if his Sand shield has its on set of chakra and is not connected with Shukaku, meaning it still works Shino is boned.

Vengeance
06-21-2009, 01:36 AM
saiyamn a tip for you bro superninja is kyf number 2 he gets clowned on just as much as kyf does... their posts are very similar nd they always agree on the same thing he's prob a dupe of kyf for sure.


anyway here's a fight:

Shino vs Garra (garra has no shukaku)

same place garra fought naruto.
Same place Naruto fought Gaara... Hrrmm lots of places to hide in this which could be useful for Shino. Trees can be used to gain height encase a wide spread sand attack is used. Shino is definitely physically faster than Gaara however this isn't factoring in sand flight. If Gaara flies however he'll be unable to create extra sand. If caught in desert coffin the bugs can eat the chakra away from one side of the trap so Shino could brake free. Shino's bugs have a similar movement to Gaara's sand so I can see the two being used to clash against each other. I give the bugs the advantage because they can immobilize the sand by eating it's chakra. Once Gaara is caught he'd drop in seconds just like most shinobi would. I give this one to Shino he's just that bad arse.

TheSixthHokage
06-21-2009, 01:39 AM
Well we don't know how much Gaara has fallen after the extraction, but correct me if im wrong, but isn't his sand shield not connected with the Shukaku ??

I remember it being mentioned during the CE that it was sand embued with chakra but not specifically if it was Ichibi's chakra.

Anyway, if his Sand shield has its on set of chakra and is not connected with Shukaku, meaning it still works Shino is boned.

I am not sure either but I think Shukaku's chakra created the automatic and very dangerous sand that was so key to Gaara's battle with Deidera. I think that his shield now would be far less impressive and far more conservative in size and useage.

Yeah, I think the super-reactive and dangerous sand that automatically protects him is Ichibi's but I think he can still control sand all together but to a far lesser degree, or at least it costs a lot more chakra.

My assumption is a Jinkuurichi, even a Bijuu-less one, would have unnaturally high chakra levels, so Gaara would still have most of his shield active and Shino tends to be a very crafty, but indirect fighter, while Gaara's a steamroller. Shino just doesn't have enough defense or even offensive moves to counter a quick combo of sand attacks by Gaara...

Vengeance
06-21-2009, 01:43 AM
The automatic sand shield really doesn't matter even if Gaara has it Shino's bugs can still make the sand useless by eating away the chakra. Shino's bugs can also burrow through Gaara's sand bubble in the same manner as Diedara's bombs. Gaara's defenses wouldn't really be effective against Shino.

Dagoro
06-21-2009, 01:44 AM
This is almost impossible to speculate, we haven't seen Gaara since the extraction.

However i'll point out a few things.

. I checked, Gaara's sand is not infused with Shukaku's chakra but with his own. It has a set amount which allows it to defend Gaara even if he doesn't will it.

. Gaara's abilities are not derived from Shukaku, meaning he can still break down minerals in the surrounding soil and make his own sand for offensive/defensive purposes.

. Gaara's sand attacks are pretty fast, definetely faster than anything Shino has shown. Shino's bugs simply sucking away the chakra from his sand attacks sound very sketchy to me since Gaara can move a lot even without using tail forms.

Based on feats I give this to Gaara, since his shield still works and his abilities are his own and not connect to Shukaku.

Vengeance
06-21-2009, 01:47 AM
Gaara's sand attacks are pretty fast, definetely faster than anything Shino has shown. Shino's bugs simply sucking away the chakra from his sand attacks sound very sketchy to me since Gaara can move a lot even without using tail forms.

Based on feats I give this to Gaara, since his shield still works and his abilities are his own and not connect to Shukaku.
Shino was able to trap Madara with his bugs who is shown to be several times faster then Gaara. This means Shino can also trap Gaara with his bugs.

Based on abilities I'm giving this to Shino.

Dagoro
06-21-2009, 01:53 AM
Madara wasn't really trying come on now. He was toying with Naruto & Co the whole time.

Gaara won't just stand still while Shino attacks, they're both long range fighters and manga feats favor Gaara big time.

Again this " bugs will render his sand useless " doesn't really make sense to me. The sand is constantly moving and there is a lot of it, the bugs are still squishy and the sand produces a ton of pressure.

poolangya
06-21-2009, 04:15 AM
shino vs gaara
tough fight. both long ranged. 1 has high chakra capacity even without shukaku, the other has means to drain opponents chakra. both are skilled in capturing opponents. Gaara's sand defence is almost impenetrable to shino unless the bugs can eat the chakra from the sand. shino can't be easily caught since he showed before that his bugs can eat and recompose parts of his body in no time (fight against kankuro). manga feats say gaara has an advantage, kage level. but potential of the character says that shino clearly has the upperhand. Shino is darn strong with those set of skills and jutsu, he has to be given a good clean fight for him to showcase his strength. my take is shino will win this, it will be a tough fight. almost anybody fighting gaara will have a hard time anyway. but shino will emerge victorious. shino 6-4 gaara.

superninja
06-21-2009, 05:41 AM
Gara wins against Shino, kazekage vs a jounin. Gara's sand is too much for Shino to handle. Shino can target Gara with his bugs as Gara is pretty stationary when fighting, bugs might get to Gara and hit his sand skin because I don't know if the automatic defense will trigger on a few bugs landing on him. Gara can just make another layer of sand skin over himself and crush the bugs. Because bugs need time to suck the chakra from his sand probably.

Now, Itachi vs Naruto, location is the desert open field
Itachi starts as himself, he has the tools and abilities he had against Sasuke
first scenario is Naruto starts at base form with 100 clones created (Itachi can't tell which is the real one)
second scenario is Naruto starts in sage mode with two sage clones created
third scenario is Naruto starts as the 6 tails kyubi

Kreglze
06-21-2009, 05:52 AM
This is a good fight.

I can see what people are talking bout with the insects eating Gaara's chakra infused sand, I feel even though the sand is moving the insects would still be within the chakra eating it. It can be what happened with Gaara and Deidara, it Gaara revolves in his sand bubble the insect should be able to chop and get to Gaara. However, if Gaara keeps the sand moving the insects cannot get near Gaara. Sand Coffin would be weak against Shino because of the sand around Shino's body and the insects eat the Chakra.

In the settings though in the tree's Shino can hide, if this was where Kimmimaro battled Gaara, it would be Gaara easily, burying him 200 metres underground. High in the trees, he cannot as easily create sand tsunami levels of sand, but I give it to Gaara, but barely, I feel it would be an awesome fight though. Good job to whoever came up with it.

Edit:
Quick question would Itachi's Sharingan allow him to identify the real naruto? Also another quick question, can Itachi's sharingan dispell the fox like Sasuke's was able to?

Vengeance
06-21-2009, 07:47 AM
Madara wasn't really trying come on now. He was toying with Naruto & Co the whole time.
Granted Madara was just trying to buy time however it doesn't change the fact that Shino did get Madara who was previously shown dashing at high speeds on water when capturing the 3 tails. These were clearly speeds far beyond that of a base Lee & Gaara himself 317-04 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/317/04/). If Madara was still caught it means that Shino's bugs are actually faster then Gaara's sand 395-02 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/02/), 395-03 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/03/), 395-04 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/04/), 395-05 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/05/), 395-06 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/06/), &395-07 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/07/).

Another reason why I say Shino's bugs are actually faster than Gaara is because Shino stated "Teleportation is merely high speed movement. The bugs would've sensed the direction he moved in & and pursed. They wouldn't let him escape" 395-09 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/09/). Meaning Shino's bugs are actually fast enough to take down someone that uses teleportation or high speed movement. Were as Gaara's sand is shown that it can't.

Gaara won't just stand still while Shino attacks, they're both long range fighters and manga feats favor Gaara big time.
Gaara won't stand still however that doesn't really matter because Gaara isn't even fast to begin with. Actually manga feats don't necessarily favor Gaara because Gaara lost his demon. This means that his chakra has drastically decreased. Meaning draining his chakra would be allot faster & he's unable to sustain the same high level combat for long periods of time as shown against Diedara. Gaara actually did use his demon in his fight against Diedara at best Gaara will have abilities close to when he fought Kimi. However even his desert waterfall is questionable at this point & may be allot more risky considering his lack of chakra because of the lose of his demon.

Again this " bugs will render his sand useless " doesn't really make sense to me. The sand is constantly moving and there is a lot of it, the bugs are still squishy and the sand produces a ton of pressure.
One must also factor in kunai, paper bombs, & such (standard issue konoha ninja gear) in a effort to force Gaara into a sand bubble (Shino's bugs can burrow through the sand this has been done with clay bombs).

Shino's bugs should also be faster than Gaara's sand as previously mentioned & could move with the sand as it eats the chakra. Shino's bugs are able to drop a normal human in seconds as shown pre-timskip. Removing the chakra from the sand(note Gaara's bulk of chakra would obviously be within himself) would take a very short time.

The bugs are chakra eaters; chakra grants things superhuman durability this should be no different for Shino's insects. The sand wouldn't be able to apply pressure if the chakra is removed from it quickly enough.

Anyway I'm finished as there's no point in repeating. But this is my opinion on the matter.

redexploit
06-21-2009, 11:20 AM
I'm intrigued by this fight. I'm assuming that it's universally accepted that if Gaara had his bijuu, then it would be no contest.

I have a question: When Gaara had Shikaku, did he always have to hold back some bit of chakra in order to keep the beast at bay? Regardless, the amount of chakra that he needed to reserve in order to contain Shikaku would probably be insignificant when compared to the massive chakra boost he experienced from having a bijuu in the first place.
---> For this claim, the only instance I can reference off the top of my head was that last filler saga where Gaara was trapped in a metal chakra absorbing container and they were doing this in order to awaken Shikaku. And that obviously cannot be accepted as canon.

I agree with Dagoro- the concept of Shino's bugs absorbing Gaara's chakra seems kinda sketchy to me.

Also, @ Vengence- you did give credible evidence concerning the speed of Shino's bugs; however, I don't think Madara was choosing to move at the same speeds when he fought the Three-tails as compared to when he fought the Konoha ninja. As far as the argument for the bugs being able to follow if somebody did teleportation or fast movement...maybe that's because bugs are slightly more intelligent/have more afferent (sensory) neurons than a piece of sand, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they are faster than Gaara's sand just because an individual sand grain can't detect external stimuli.

I'm inclined to think that the Gaara's sand still has a considerable speed advantage over Shino's bugs. (Side note: How ridiculous would it be right now if I pulled a KYF and gave a F=MA proof/derivation for that, hahaha) What Gaara can no longer do is spam the same massive amounts of sand anymore, I'm sure that he can still shoot smaller amounts of sand at an opponent at comparable speeds, albeit for a reduced amount of time.

When I think of the Deedara fight, I consider not only how fast Deidara is, but also the fact that he was a great distance above the ground. Gaara's sand was always neck and neck with Deidara, who is MUCH MUCH faster than Shino and I also think that having to move sand at such heights must be more chakra-draining (obviously I can't back that final claim up for sure).

In a fight against Shino, Gaara himself wouldn't need to be hovering mid-air and his sand wouldn't have to move nearly as fast to capture his opponent. And I don't think that Shino's bugs can be used to effectively shield against Gaara's sand - at least not if Gaara were to go nearly all out for an attack or two.

Old Gaara could easily smash down every tree and level the playing field while turning half the ground into sand and STILL have extra chakra to spare. Most likely new Gaara can't quite get away with that. Nevertheless, I think what it comes down to is that if Gaara could locate Shino fast enough (if he had Shino within his eyesight from the beginning of the fight), as long as the distance between each fighter isn't miles away, I can see Gaara throwing a massive desert coffin at Shino that has so much sand with so much crushing power (yes, even in his bijuu-less form) that Shino would not be able to stop it. Even if Shino was attacking at the same time, I think his attacks would take a lot longer to disable/destroy Gaara than it would take for Gaara's attacks to finish Shino.

In Summary: As long as he goes for the finishing move fairly early, Gaara still probably has enough chakra to throw an unavoidable, fatal attack Shino's way.

THAT, is my two cents.

lamps123
06-21-2009, 12:40 PM
Another reason why I say Shino's bugs are actually faster than Gaara is because Shino stated "Teleportation is merely high speed movement. The bugs would've sensed the direction he moved in & and pursed. They wouldn't let him escape" 395-09 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/09/). Meaning Shino's bugs are actually fast enough to take down someone that uses teleportation or high speed movement. Were as Gaara's sand is shown that it can't.


actually that there shino was trying to suggest that madara did not teleport because teleportations is high speed movement,the bugs would have followed the direction at which the person moved not necessarily caught up.
he just meant if madara teleported the bugs wont stay where they are,they would have followed the direction which makes sense since they sense chakra.

Vengeance
06-21-2009, 12:52 PM
actually that there shino was trying to suggest that madara did not teleport because teleportations is high speed movement,the bugs would have followed the direction at which the person moved not necessarily caught up.
he just meant if madara teleported the bugs wont stay where they are,they would have followed the direction which makes sense since they sense chakra.
One small thing. One of the links I posted earlier had Kakashi saying "He can't get out of this. Avoiding all those bugs simply isn't possible". Even Kakashi is giving mention to how escape isn't an option yet people think Shino's bugs are slow LMAO. Our "hero" Naruto plays cheerleader to Shino the whole time :p.

TheSixthHokage
06-21-2009, 01:22 PM
Vengeance has some great points, I'll give him that, but as Gaara is the Kazekage currently and prior to that had the Ichibi in him, I fail to see a mere Aburame taking him down, it's just not going to happen. Shino relies way too much on being ABLE to plan, while with Gaara, he'd be on the defensive so quickly he wouldn't be able to plan ahead as every second there'd be another threat.

lamps123
06-21-2009, 05:00 PM
One small thing. One of the links I posted earlier had Kakashi saying "He can't get out of this. Avoiding all those bugs simply isn't possible". Even Kakashi is giving mention to how escape isn't an option yet people think Shino's bugs are slow LMAO. Our "hero" Naruto plays cheerleader to Shino the whole time :p.
actually kakashi said (no its impossible) because he didnt think madara can use space time ninjustu.
but personally i dont really know how to access the fight because i dont know how well gaaras power has deteriorated

Vengeance
06-21-2009, 07:20 PM
actually kakashi said (no its impossible) because he didnt think madara can use space time ninjustu.
but personally i dont really know how to access the fight because i dont know how well gaaras power has deteriorated
You're looking at the wrong image. This was stated before Madara even got caught 395-4 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/04/). I forgot to post the link but here you go Kakashi did actually say "He can't get out of this. Avoiding all those bugs simply isn't possible". Sorry but I don't make shit up when I'm quoting a character dude.

Myth
06-21-2009, 07:27 PM
Garra can still use everything he used before it says so in the data book only shukaku is gone so that extra chakra boost goes bye bye, but his chakra is great even in base.

as for the sand automatically protecting him that was shukaku but he can still do it himself only it'll waste chakra.. his sand jutsu are all his none of directly connected to shukaku, the demon just gave him extra chakra so he was able to pull off crazy techniques without breaking a sweat like naruto.

as for the data book thing i'll check again just to make sure but i think thats what it said...

lamps123
06-21-2009, 07:43 PM
You're looking at the wrong image. This was stated before Madara even got caught 395-4 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/04/). I forgot to post the link but here you go Kakashi did actually say "He can't get out of this. Avoiding all those bugs simply isn't possible". Sorry but I don't make shit up when I'm quoting a character dude.
kakashi said avoiding the bugs isnt possible that dosent mean they are fast it just meant the bugs would stick to the persons body which would not be easy to avoid even though moves fast.

Vengeance
06-21-2009, 07:51 PM
kakashi said avoiding the bugs isnt possible that dosent mean they are fast it just meant the bugs would stick to the persons body which would not be easy to avoid even though moves fast.
Key words here being "isn't possible" As in it's impossible to dodge Shino's bugs. Take it how you want to take it. Shino's bugs are shown in the manga to be fast, trapped Madara, was mentioned to being able to take down shinobi that use high speed movement, & a mention from Kakashi himself. But think what you want I really don't care.

Dagoro
06-21-2009, 07:57 PM
as for the sand automatically protecting him that was shukaku

I checked, it isn't connected to Shukaku. The sand has a set amount of chakra which activates its defenses even without Gaara willing it. The chakra doesn't belong to Shukaku, it was already in the gourd when it was given to Gaara.

Kreglze
06-21-2009, 10:18 PM
To continue the Sand vs Konaha ideals, what does everyone thing about...

Neji v Kankuro

Fight based in the flat desert.

Myth
06-21-2009, 10:28 PM
To continue the Sand vs Konaha ideals, what does everyone thing about...

Neji v Kankuro

Fight based in the flat desert.

neji loses kankuro knows his style, nd neji has no long range capability other then his Vaccum palm which even if it hits does little damage(check out when he hit kisame with it if u dnt believe me).

Kankuro can control 3 puppets with 1 that has a very powerful shield which even earth itself couldn't crumble, sasori picked it apart cause he designed it of course however neji has no knowledge of the spot... its all about if neji can get close if he can get close nd close off kankuro's tenketsu then he can win if not then kankuro will kill him.

h33r
06-21-2009, 10:35 PM
Itachi and Kakashi vs Kisame and Kakuzu

:D

i ll go with Itach and Kakashi....:P

Kreglze
06-21-2009, 10:41 PM
neji loses kankuro knows his style, nd neji has no long range capability other then his Vaccum palm which even if it hits does little damage(check out when he hit kisame with it if u dnt believe me).

Kankuro can control 3 puppets with 1 that has a very powerful shield which even earth itself couldn't crumble, sasori picked it apart cause he designed it of course however neji has no knowledge of the spot... its all about if neji can get close if he can get close nd close off kankuro's tenketsu then he can win if not then kankuro will kill him.

I have to agree, Neji would need to get within striking distance, and Kankuro should be able to keep him at a distance with the 3 puppets, and with poison at his disposal one decent hit will slowly kill him off. If Neji could sneak up on Kankuro if would different laying into him, but overall Kankuro has Neji covered.

Dagoro
06-21-2009, 11:03 PM
Itachi and Kakashi vs Kisame and Kakuzu

I can't make a case for Kisame since we haven't seen him fight for real yet ( we will soon ).

But Kazuzu should be not be counted out so quickly, this is in fact a 6 vs 2 fight.

Kazuzu's monsters have no eyes, heart or brains they are just chakra monsters so genjutsu = shit in this fight.

Kazuzu has counters for pretty much any elemental jutsu that gets thrown his way so Itachi's katon abilities can be counted by the water monster ( we have never seen it in action since Kakashi destroyed it but we can assume it has powerful suitons techs based on what the other monsters can do ).

Kakashi was able to perform so well because Shika provided openings, but now his battle buddy can't bind people in their place meaning Kazuzu will be moving the whole time, and with all monsters up and running he can definitely keep the pressure on the dual.

Kazuzu alone has the numerical and jutsu advantage on Itachi and kakashi and im even including Kisame yet.

Based on arsenals, Itachi could tip the scale because of Susano'O but since thats a LR tech and his genjutsu won't work on the monsters I give this one to Kazuzu and Kisame.

Itachi is very powerful, but because he rellies heavily on genjutsu Kazuzu is a really bad opponent for him. I assume Kisame can keep Kakashi busy until Kazuzu takes down Itachi.

Before someone screams amateratsu, 4 monsters + Kazuzu = multiple targets and that is not good for Itachi since spamming ms techs is nearly impossible.

redexploit
06-22-2009, 12:08 AM
Itachi is very powerful, but because he rellies heavily on genjutsu Kazuzu is a really bad opponent for him. I assume Kisame can keep Kakashi busy until Kazuzu takes down Itachi.

Before someone screams amateratsu, 4 monsters + Kazuzu = multiple targets and that is not good for Itachi since spamming ms techs is nearly impossible.

You set the fight up as more of a Itachi vs. Kakuzu and Kakashi vs. Kisame and then whichever battle concludes first, the winner will help his respective teammate. If you look at the fight that way, then between Kakuzu's "element-creature-arsenal" and Kisame's chakra supply, Itachi and Kakashi would lose from simply being overwhelmed.

HOWEVER, although Itachi would absolutely have his hands full with Kakuzu + his 4 heart-bodies, I still see him capable of immediately disabling Kisame with a genjutsu, which could turn the fight into a Kakashi + Itachi vs. Kakuzu. This could still lead to problems for the Sharingan duo, however I think they would win in the end.

Also, are any of these interesting?
1) Sai vs Kankuro

2) Sai vs.Temari

3) Anko vs. Temari

4) Anko vs. Hinata
--> Not much of either of these characters skills have been seen during the manga, but what if we include jutsu shown in fillers?

Dagoro
06-22-2009, 12:25 AM
You set the fight up as more of a Itachi vs. Kakuzu and Kakashi vs. Kisame and then whichever battle concludes first, the winner will help his respective teammate. If you look at the fight that way, then between Kakuzu's "element-creature-arsenal" and Kisame's chakra supply, Itachi and Kakashi would lose from simply being overwhelmed.

HOWEVER, although Itachi would absolutely have his hands full with Kakuzu + his 4 heart-bodies, I still see him capable of immediately disabling Kisame with a genjutsu, which could turn the fight into a Kakashi + Itachi vs. Kakuzu. This could still lead to problems for the Sharingan duo, however I think they would win in the end.

Genjutsu doesn't work that way, the user has to manipulate the target's chakra and during that time he/she is unable to move as well unless they want to drop the genjutsu to do something else.

Chiyo explained before they fought Itachi, fighting a genjutsu user 1 on 1 is a bad idea, but when you have allies in the fight with you while 1 gets trapped in a genjutsu the other can take advantage of the genjutsu user not being able to move and deliver a blow from behind/other angle etc.

Itachi is a sitting duck while performing a genjutsu against 4 monsters and Kazuzo, so if Kisame gets trapped in a genjutsu there are 5 allies that can snap him out of it by attacking Itachi.

Chakra wise Kakashi and Itachi are screwed, genjutsu would be a huge mistake when high lvl elemental jutsu are flying every where.

Itachi's surprise would definitely be Susano'O but there is so not known about it, for example how long it lasts, how fast it is and if it could potentially kill the user. On top of that its a LR tech so the fight could very well be over by then.

1) Sai vs Kankuro

2) Sai vs.Temari

Sai is freaking terrible. He loses both matches.


3) Anko vs. Temari

4) Anko vs. Hinata

Anko vs Temari

Based on feats Temari.

Anko vs Hinata

Anko.

redexploit
06-22-2009, 12:45 AM
Genjutsu doesn't work that way, the user has to manipulate the target's chakra and during that time he/she is unable to move as well unless they want to drop the genjutsu to do something else.

Chiyo explained before they fought Itachi, fighting a genjutsu user 1 on 1 is a bad idea, but when you have allies in the fight with you while 1 gets trapped in a genjutsu the other can take advantage of the genjutsu user not being able to move and deliver a blow from behind/other angle etc.

Itachi is a sitting duck while performing a genjutsu against 4 monsters and Kazuzo, so if Kisame gets trapped in a genjutsu there are 5 allies that can snap him out of it by attacking Itachi.

Chakra wise Kakashi and Itachi are screwed, genjutsu would be a huge mistake when high lvl elemental jutsu are flying every where.


Well countered. Your argument has persuaded me.



Wow, you really hate Sai. I agree that he would lose to Kankuro. However, I could see him beat Temari if he distracts her using himself on a ink birdie + spamming ink doggies while he covertly dispatches ink snakes that sneak up on her. Although, Temari is pretty calculating, so she would most likely take this fight. I give it 7-3 to her. I also think Anko would lose to Temari hands-down. As for hinata, wel if she grew some balls/a neji spin-counter maybe she could win, but otherwise, yes, it is Anko's fight.

h33r
06-22-2009, 01:43 AM
have u ever seen itachi fight at full strength in manga ???
he was stronger than kisame...kisame said that itachi can fight jairaya but he cannot ..(something like that)....arent we underestimating itachi and kakashi ....kakashi fought good with kakuzu...only problem was that he had useless teammates....but in case of itachi its different.....if itachi and kakashi fight together i think they can beat them....and i dun think even after uchiha hate we should underestimate sharingan...it would be a good fight but itachi and kakashi would win...kakashi can send kisame in some other dimension while itachi can burn kakuzu with black flames...and as far as i remember amatarsue was able to break toad stomach so it can destroy those five hearts.....etc etc!!!...my head is spinning cz of lack of sleep...cant write more..

Dagoro
06-22-2009, 02:01 AM
The whole Itachi never fought at full strenght crap is invalid as this point, because Itachi is dead. His abilities are what we can see in the canon material anything else is speculation.

Kakashi did not fight " good " with Kazuzu, in fact Kazuzu nearly killed Kakashi twice. Once when he had Kakashi pinned down on the ground and another when he caught Kakashi, Ino and Chouji.

Another thing, the blow Kakashi did land on Kazuzu was only possible because Shikamaru held him in place almost completely immobile. The fight scenes in which Kazuzu wasn't locked in Kage mane had him completely laying the smack down on Team 10 + Kakashi.

Facts about MS.

. First, these techs are LR meaning the user never opens with them.
. They are chakra guzzlers and harmful to the user, so they only used them when they're in a pinch and have the best possible chance of impact.
. Amateratsu is only instant within 5 meters from the target, and it cannot be spammed.
. Multiple targets would make MS a bad choice for moves because while they focus on the target another attacker would be all over them.

Itachi is a heavy genjutsu user, Kazuzu is pretty much 5 opponents in 1 and 4 of them happen to be nothing but chakra and hair/tentacles w/e those things are coming out of Kazuzu.

So Kazuzu and Kisame have the numerical, chakra and jutsu advantage. Genjutsu is useless againt Kazuzu's abilities and Kisame can hold his own pretty well, the guy took out the 4 tails and punked team Gai at 30%.

TheSixthHokage
06-22-2009, 02:43 AM
Dagoro, your facts are informative and seem to illustrative the most important thing about MS: Yes it's powerful, but it has a severe cost. Sasuke's already had vision loss from using it about 3 or so times, leaving one to wonder, how quick does one go blind while using the MS techniques?

I think genjutsu would be almost useless against Kakuzu, considering he controls 5 hearts, but I think Amaterasu would be very effective. Having said that, it's like bringing a single-shot RPG to a gun duel -- Kakuzu can spam his elemental genjutsu, while Itachi has to time and survive long enough to hit with it and even if he does, Kakuzu technically has 5 lives...

The only variable I see that makes me think Itachi could win is of course Susanno, but what do we know about it? It was taken out by a 'Kirin,' so it can be killed, albeit with extreme difficulty, and most likely (and logically) has a time limit. I'd have to give this battle to Kakuzu as we really don't know much Itachi's ultimate tech.

Oh and Itachi's "full strength" observation is useless. It's like me saying "What if the Fourth was alive and taught Naruto the Flying Thunder God Technique?" Everyone's response would be: "He died, ain't gonna happen." Therefore my response is, "Didn't happen, Itachi as we were shown was gravely ill, we'll never know; move on."

Myth
06-22-2009, 03:36 AM
Itachi/Kakashi woulld rape kisame/kakuzu...

Itachi is faster then both kisame nd kakuzu nd kakashi lmaoo he was the strongest member of akatsuki going off by zetsu's words no other member was stronger.

Kakuzu's monsters Darago are actually elements u dnt need to cast genjutsu on them its all about the main user meaning kakuzu. nd really itachi would win the fight before it starts by doing the same thing he did with deidara...

Nobody in akatsuki other then pain nd madara could beat itachi ina fight the result wouldn't change even if there were multi members... no way out of tsukuyomi no way around amaterasu no way around kamui.....

Kakashi nd itachi over kill here.

fyi itachi can use suiton nd katon nd kakshi can use dotan suiton and raiton thats 5 elements together.


there should be no discussion with this at all....

sickoverdrive
06-22-2009, 04:39 AM
The only variable I see that makes me think Itachi could win is of course Susanno, but what do we know about it? It was taken out by a 'Kirin,' so it can be killed, albeit with extreme difficulty, and most likely (and logically) has a time limit. I'd have to give this battle to Kakuzu as we really don't know much Itachi's ultimate tech.
Susano wasn't taken out by Kirin ... after Itachi blocked the Kirin with Susano he then trapped Orochimaru in a genjutsu with Susano's sword. After that Itachi started to cough and Susano disappeared.

poolangya
06-22-2009, 08:49 AM
itachi+kakashi vs kakuzu+kisame

we've seen kakashi having a very hard time with kakuzu taijutsu wise. and i don't think itachi is very far of in terms of taijutsu skills from kakashi. kisame is more of a hack and slash brute, but he is more dangerous in taijutsu for kakashi and itachi, than kakuzu is for them, why because of samehada which can drain their not so very hi chakra capacity. taijutsu wise, kakashi and itachi will lose badly. but they have pretty good ninjutsus. kakashi has over a thousand i believe tho not all shown. and itachi also has cool jutsus., crow bunshin, MS techs, although more of last resort techs, might be a table turner, but i doubt it could for this fight.meanwhile, kakuzu can spam level 2 elemental jutsus. kisame can summon an ocean ( btw, can amaterasu work on kisame if he is down under the ocean?). Genjutsu, i dont think that is an option for this fight because they are highly outnumbered.
i give this fight to kakuzu+kisame. they will overpower kakashi and itachi with ninjutsu and taijutsu spams. kakuzu+kisame 7-3 kakashi+itachi.

Myth
06-22-2009, 11:54 AM
i can't believe people are actually saying kakuzu nd kisame lmfaooooooooooo kisame the man who was to pussy to fight jiraiya lol itachi would tear him to shredss.....nd then go to work on kakuzu.. seriously kids its a no contest here at all.

Dagoro
06-22-2009, 11:58 AM
Kakuzu's monsters Darago are actually elements u dnt need to cast genjutsu on them its all about the main user meaning kakuzu. nd really itachi would win the fight before it starts by doing the same thing he did with deidara...

Yeah.....You do realize Kazuzu's main body was killed during his fight with team 10 and kakashi but the monsters kept on moving, and revived him after pushing back Kakashi & co.

So no, Kazuzu does not need to be alive for the mosters to function. As for MS techs, i already explained the limitations. They are never used first its completely OC because of the side effects, chakra hit and risk if something goes wrong.

Multiple targets are terrible for MS users because they need to focus on the target for their techs to work, mean while Kazuzu's monsters rain down elemental spams.

Amaterastsu as i said before is only instant within 5 meters, so if attempted at a distance it has some travel time.

Lets not forget Kazuzu has air superiority with his wind monster. He can fuse monsters together and separate them at will, pretty much he can swing the outcome to his favor element wise by manipulating the mosnter configurarion.

Also what is with the notion that Kisame would die from the very beginning ?

The guys is not a push over at all. In fact he has a ton of chakra, can spit out a freaking lake, summong sharks and has water techs like Suikodan no jutsu ( water missile ).

Kreglze
06-22-2009, 06:35 PM
The fact that Kisame can spew out a whole lake automatically gives him automatic choice of terrain, 30% Kisame pushed Gai right to 8th Gate, Kisame is no push over by any stretch, the one out of his depth in this match is Kakashi I think, Kakashi, Choji and Ino couldn't knock off Kazuzu. Though saying that Itachi is an absolute beast! He has multiple elemental affiliation, killer Genjutsu and decent Ninjutsu ability, Itachi wins this for his team Kakashi can hold off one person for a while, at that point Itachi knocks off one, blowing his brains out with genjutsu, after, Itachi turns his attentions to the other person, holding him still with Genjutsu as Kakashi deals out the lightening blades until the other team is carved up.

lamps123
06-22-2009, 07:14 PM
Key words here being "isn't possible" As in it's impossible to dodge Shino's bugs. Take it how you want to take it. Shino's bugs are shown in the manga to be fast, trapped Madara, was mentioned to being able to take down shinobi that use high speed movement, & a mention from Kakashi himself. But think what you want I really don't care.
but thats because they would stick to you.

Myth
06-22-2009, 07:48 PM
Yeah.....You do realize Kazuzu's main body was killed during his fight with team 10 and kakashi but the monsters kept on moving, and revived him after pushing back Kakashi & co.
Where the fuk did u get that lmaoo, one of his hearts was destroyed not his actual body, as long as he has a heart he will not die it doesn't need to be his heart it just needs to be a real working heart... he was never dead...


So no, Kazuzu does not need to be alive for the mosters to function. As for MS techs, i already explained the limitations. They are never used first its completely OC because of the side effects, chakra hit and risk if something goes wrong.without mks techniques itachi is faster then everyone on that field not to mention far more skilled in every area.

Multiple targets are terrible for MS users because they need to focus on the target for their techs to work, mean while Kazuzu's monsters rain down elemental spams.which are B ranked nd can't do shit if u dodge them kakuzu was only as good as he looked because him nd hidan had a good way of fighting together as a team.... Kakashi alone was handling himself well the only thing that worked him was his chakra....

Amaterastsu as i said before is only instant within 5 meters, so if attempted at a distance it has some travel time.
Amaterasu cannot be out runned by anyone or anything unless u posses a time space ninjutsu, not even sasuke as fast as he is with the cs boosting his speed was able to out run it... thanks to ro's replacement he was alive...

Lets not forget Kazuzu has air superiority with his wind monster. He can fuse monsters together and separate them at will, pretty much he can swing the outcome to his favor element wise by manipulating the mosnter configurarion. Itachi can use katon and suiton so that cool little wind goes out the window...

Also what is with the notion that Kisame would die from the very beginning ?itachi can kill them both himself without kakashi once ur trapped in his genjutsu unless ur on the level of say jiraya or pain ur fucked, not 1 person whom itachi wanted down with his genjutsu was able to fight not once...

The guys is not a push over at all. In fact he has a ton of chakra, can spit out a freaking lake, summong sharks and has water techs like Suikodan no jutsu ( water missile ).all his water attacks kakashi can use cept his shark nd lake thing. Kisame would be the first to go down in this fight...


Im not arguing it past this point though so w/e.. there's now ay in hell a mind like itachi's nd kakashi's nd as skill full as they are would lose to kisame nd kakzu when itachi alone would school them both any minuet of any hour.

Dagoro
06-22-2009, 08:26 PM
Where the fuk did u get that lmaoo, one of his hearts was destroyed not his actual body, as long as he has a heart he will not die it doesn't need to be his heart it just needs to be a real working heart... he was never dead...

I didn't way his main body was destroyed, i said it was killed. He has 5 hearts 4 from his monsters and 1 of his own. The main body's heart was taken out so Kazuzu died, Shikamaru used the term "death' through out the battle too, he said " We need to kill him a few more times ".

without mks techniques itachi is faster then everyone on that field not to mention far more skilled in every area.

How so ??

He outclasses everyone in Genjutsu, but in seal making, chakra and jutsu not so much. remember how Kakashi was only able to read Kazuzu's seal speed because ofhis SG ?? Yeah.

Kazuzu can use jutsu of all elements, Itachi has displayed katon and 1 suiton tech when he fought Kakashi. Not only that Kazuzu's monsters can spam elemental attacks non stop.

I don't see how Itachi outclasses Kisame and Kazuzuin every area.

which are B ranked nd can't do shit if u dodge them kakuzu was only as good as he looked because him nd hidan had a good way of fighting together as a team.... Kakashi alone was handling himself well the only thing that worked him was his chakra....

Again i disagree. Yes Hidan made things easier for Kazuzu but Kakashi was only able to land a hit because of Shikamaru. And you say he was able to handle Kazuzu alone, i beg to differ.

Kazuzu had Kakashi locked and was about to take his heart.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/336/13/

Kakashi was saved by Shikamaru who tricked Hidan to curse Kazuzu.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/336/16/

Kazuzu also had Kakashi, along with Ino and Chouji in a bind and about to roast them alive.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/336/16/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/337/15/

So yeah, Kazuzu kept team 10 and Kakashi on the defensive almost the entire time with just is monsters.


Amaterasu cannot be out runned by anyone or anything unless u posses a time space ninjutsu, not even sasuke as fast as he is with the cs boosting his speed was able to out run it... thanks to ro's replacement he was alive...

Like i said before, The DB says amateratsu is instant within 5 meters. MS techs are never openers, that is OC and against multiple targets its not a good idea because the user needs to focus their gaze on the target. That leaves them opened for attack.

Kisame and Kazuzu have the numerica advantage and genjutsu immunity with Kazuzu's monsters so Tsukuyomi is out the windown, Amateratsu would be really risky when you have chakra beasts machine gunning elemental attacks from every angle.


Itachi can use katon and suiton so that cool little wind goes out the window...

Kazuzu can use all elements, and Itachi has 1 confirmed Suiton tech that will not cut it against a Suiton master and chakra monster like Kisame.

itachi can kill them both himself without kakashi once ur trapped in his genjutsu unless ur on the level of say jiraya or pain ur fucked, not 1 person whom itachi wanted down with his genjutsu was able to fight not once...

That is a huge assumption and i see no basis in it. How can Itachi trap Both at the same time ?? Pannel of him using genjutsu against multiple targets. How can he use genjutsu against Kazuzu's chakra monsters who have no eyes, no brain but only a heart ??

That won't work.

all his water attacks kakashi can use cept his shark nd lake thing. Kisame would be the first to go down in this fight...

Im sorry but this doesn't really make much sense to me. You're under the assumption that Kisame will go down almost instantly in this fight and i don't see any back up for that claim either.

Kisame is a mist swordsman and a Suiton master, not to mention he has more chakra than Itachi and Kakashi. The guy took on team Gai with a clone at 30% chakra capacity and took down the 4 tails give him some credit.

This is just a bad match for Itachi and Kakashi. They have less chakra, Kazuzu already schooled Kakashi once, Kisame can without a doubt keep Kakashi busy and Kazuzu brings the genjutsu immunity and strenght in numbers and jutsu.

Myth
06-22-2009, 09:46 PM
I didn't way his main body was destroyed, i said it was killed. He has 5 hearts 4 from his monsters and 1 of his own. The main body's heart was taken out so Kazuzu died, Shikamaru used the term "death' through out the battle too, he said " We need to kill him a few more times ".So that means nothing other then he has 5 hearts nobody knows which one was his it could have been any one of em, fact is as long as he's alive with a heart he can be effected by genjutsu. 1 Tsukuyomi nd he's done... nd itachi would easily get him...





He outclasses everyone in Genjutsu, but in seal making, chakra and jutsu not so much. remember how Kakashi was only able to read Kazuzu's seal speed because ofhis SG ?? Yeah. That's cool, but kakashi couldn't read itachi's seals even with his sharingan cause they were to fast...

Kazuzu can use jutsu of all elements, Itachi has displayed katon and 1 suiton tech when he fought Kakashi. Not only that Kazuzu's monsters can spam elemental attacks non stop. Itachi can use every fire technique that's based for the uchiha, Grand fireball,phoenix flower,dragon fire.. etc etc all uchiha excel in these jutsu. He's been going around with his sharingan copying jutsu he has a lot more then showed.. His chakra was low because he was sick nd even then he outlasted sasuke...

I don't see how Itachi outclasses Kisame and Kazuzuin every area. Taijutsu,speed,seals,higher ranked ninjutsu,as well as intelligence... 1 genjutsu would get either 1 of em dude come on...


Like i said before, The DB says amateratsu is instant within 5 meters. MS techs are never openers, that is OC and against multiple targets its not a good idea because the user needs to focus their gaze on the target. That leaves them opened for attack. with 3 sharingan reading every movement u make, not to mention kakashi is as smart as shikamru stated in the manga, nd always uses kick ass strategies in every fight we have seen him in.. he out ranks kisame in brains alone lmao.

Kisame and Kazuzu have the numerica advantage and genjutsu immunity with Kazuzu's monsters so Tsukuyomi is out the windown, Amateratsu would be really risky when you have chakra beasts machine gunning elemental attacks from every angle.
Kakuzu's monsters can't do shit once kakuzu is caught in tsukuyomi he's restrained all 5 hearts can't help ur pulling stuff outta nowhere.. the sharingan can read all attacks nuff said.. gonig off by paper alone itachi owns kakauzu nd kisame nd kakashi isn't to far from itachi on paper either.



Kazuzu can use all elements, and Itachi has 1 confirmed Suiton tech that will not cut it against a Suiton master and chakra monster like Kisame.no matter howu want it kisame will never be shit comapred to itachi in a fight lke i said manga fact he was to pussy to fight jiraiya he said so himself, acknowledging that only itachi can fight him... He's is slow as shit nd got caught in kurenai's genjutsu itachi would mind fuck him 8 ways to sunday...



u typed way to much repeating ur stuff.... if u have a heart u can be trapped in genjutsu as long as u have a life force ur fucked... kisame would be done before the fight starts just as fast as deidara, even if he doesn't look into itachi's eyes which is worse for him, since he's slow nd wouldn't know where itachi is coming from nd itachi would trap him in a genjutsu. kisame is pathetic in genjutsu since he couldnt even break from kurenai's B rank move....

btw dude nowhere was it ever said kakuzu is immune to genjutsu don't assume such things anything with a life force can be caught... kakuzu wouldn't start with his elements lol nd kakshi was able to hold down his fugly creatures with his raikiri so yeah... not tomention itachi would have then trapped before the fight starts.

Shrike
06-22-2009, 09:47 PM
Interesting match up, but Itachi and Kakashi win.

Genjutsu doesn't work that way, the user has to manipulate the target's chakra and during that time he/she is unable to move as well unless they want to drop the genjutsu to do something else.

Stop right there. Itachi caught Naruto in his finger genjutsu, meaning not even Sharingan genjutsu. All the while, Kakashi fought with Itachi.

Meaning, he isn't a sitting duck, and can battle while he has someone in a genjutsu. Simple.

That alone is enough to give victory to Kakashi and him. We don't even need to reach MS, let alone Susano-O.

Also keep in mind that both Kakashi and Itachi can copy pretty much everything they see Kisame and Kakuzu do excluding their special abilities unique to them.

It's not even funny how much of a ownage that is.

And I saw you said that Kakuzu can spam his elements. He can't. He fires them as any shinobi would fire a regular jutsu if he is fast enough. You watched too much anime.

Also, Kakuzu's elements were blocked by Raikiris.

There is also taijutsu factor, which isn't really important here, but lets mention it. Kakuzu is very good, but he isn't better then Kakashi is. Kakuzu had the upper hand because Kakashi couldn't keep up with blocking his elemental attacks and defending himself physically at the same time.
Kisame is very strong, and good at taijutsu. But so is Itachi. Check Itachi vs Kakashi/Kurenai.

All that said, we don't need to see Kisames abilities. He is awesome, I love him. Amazing fighter, interesting character.
But he can't give anything to cover up the Sharingan hax. Not to mention MS, such as Kamui or Amaterasu.

Edit: You also said somewhere that Itachi doesn't start with MS, and I will tell you that Kakuzu doesn't start with his monsters free.

h33r
06-22-2009, 10:40 PM
some ppl here really do underestimate itachi and kakashi...!!!

Myth
06-22-2009, 10:42 PM
Kakashi would have knocked kakuzu on his ass in regular taijutsu fighting kaakuzu isn't impressive in taijutsu.. nd itachi would slap all 3 in taijutsu...