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Widana14
10-21-2009, 08:07 AM
Agility is the ability to change the direction of bady movement as fast as possible...

Speed is moving in a distance for a short period of time...

Tsunade doesn't got speed...
But her main principle in fighting is Agility ("a medical ninja shouldn't get hit by enemies' attacks")...That means she specializes at making sudden fast evasive movement...
Juugo's ability is insane...but he's the kind of crazy not thinking attacker...
Tsunade's 55 years old, she got experience, especially in world wars, where everyone's fighting for their life...


And bout defense, Juugo's good, but Raikage's "5x5 meter floor/pillar destroyer" punch could penetrate and barely killed him...
Tsunade's "100x100 meter ground/earth destroyer" punches and kicks...will have Juugo blasted to the next world...

poolangya
10-21-2009, 08:59 AM
tsunade vs juugo

tsunade gets this. juugo's powers are insane, though im not amused much by him. at base he has more strategy infight than suigetsu and karin combined. he is the best combat backup for sasuke especially when sasuke acts stupid when drunk with pride. alone he is also a formidable foe. but against tsunade, she is outmatched. in experience and also power. juugo doesn't stand a chance especially when he goes berserk mode coz he is even dumber than the raikage when he does that. tsunade is not hokage if all she can do was heal and sign paperworks. tsunade 8-2 juugo. tsunade wins this one.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
10-22-2009, 12:39 AM
[QUOTE]Actually, I believe Jiraiya is still overall beter than Naruto; however, that is not relevant right now. My point was that you start this argument of yours by downplaying Naruto and then try to adapt that to an argument about how Jiraiya could have beaten pain. Why not just stop being a bitch, present your argument, "Jiraiya could beat pain, etc," and then, as proof, compare their abilities. You constantly introduce unfounded bashes, almost exclusively about Naruto while pretending to argue another topic. And I am calling you out for being FULL OF SHIT.

LMAO, u must be brain dead. What better way to explain why Jman could beat pain then by explaining how much better Jman is then Naruto who actually beat"?" Pain. So smart ass, are you ready to just admit u wanted to cry about me saying Jman>Naruto because it would make it alot easier for ya lol. Why dont you cry a river about any other characters getting bashed? Why, u love naruto with an unbriddled passion. Lol, u clearly just want to hide behind ur "just want to bash naruto" when ur obviously u
just want to cry because one out of all other posts has something negative towards naruto.


Did you make that one up or steal it from Myth again?

Lol, did u believe that or just on ur knees begining for some rep from Myth!

For the record, who dealt with the summons much more eloquently, quickly and efficiently? You're not worth arguing with. I'm not wasting another post on you...

Oh thank god because this is just rediculous! Although naruto took care of the summons quicker, it still took SM, two SM kBs, three summons and two frog sages compared to base chakra and one summon. So that makes Jman far more efficient.

Widana14
10-22-2009, 10:23 AM
remember...Pain said that he would've lost to Jiraiya if he knows Pain's secret...

This is like the Hidan killing method...

Death of strong ones, that gives/helps the weaklings get informations and beat the superstrong enemies after finding out their power...

Wolverine
10-23-2009, 01:34 PM
Kakashi vs Yamato ?

freaz
10-23-2009, 02:10 PM
eh that's a hard one..
since we've actually seen nothing from Yamato..
just him shooting some wood through his arms..
We need to see his full potential for this fight..
since we know kakashi's MS.. and I think that Yamato is pretty damn strong to.. well time will tell us :)

Konnaha_yellow_flash
10-23-2009, 03:50 PM
Kakashi vs Yamato ?

Lol, kakashi will wipe out yamato in 2 minutes flat with his supirior speed, jutsu and tactics!!! I mean yamato has earth and water style while kakashi has those two as well, plus raiton/lightning so kakashi owns in this fight.

Lord Blackheart
10-23-2009, 06:59 PM
Sasori Vs Kazaku with 5 hearts

sabaku no gara(love)
10-24-2009, 08:22 AM
sasori might win.if he uses does poisoned weapon to hit kakuzu five times.thats the end

sabaku no gara(love)
10-24-2009, 08:28 AM
gaara(current) vs sasuke(current)

mewmew
10-24-2009, 08:32 AM
gaara wins by sand blasting sasuke's face. lol

Sasuke: "My precious Mangekyou Sharingan. Nooooo!"
Gaara: "..."

freaz
10-24-2009, 10:01 AM
gaara wins by sand blasting sasuke's face. lol

Sasuke: "My precious Mangekyou Sharingan. Nooooo!"
Gaara: "..."

that made me lol xD

gokugohan
10-24-2009, 10:46 AM
naruto vs gai

stubborn_d0nkey
10-24-2009, 11:36 AM
j man itachi and kakashi vs sasori kakuzu (all hearts) and oro (chunin exam oro)

saiyaman
10-25-2009, 06:55 AM
How about Sasuke(Pre-Itachi fight and in 2nd state of Cursed Seal) vs Gai(Gated)

Let's not forget that Gai has trained himself against the Sharingan and since Sasuke doesn't have the "Look at my finger No Jutsu" like Itachi, I can see that Genjutsu is ALMOST ruled out. I think it would be a close fight. What do you think?

Dagoro
10-25-2009, 11:14 AM
naruto vs gai

Current Naruto > Gai. Naruto takes it.

j man itachi and kakashi vs sasori kakuzu (all hearts) and oro (chunin exam oro)

Need more info on this. What lvl of knowledge does Jiraya's group have on Sasori, does Oro have Edo tensei enabled ?

How about Sasuke(Pre-Itachi fight and in 2nd state of Cursed Seal) vs Gai(Gated)

My money is on already gated Gai. Sasuke is fast in c2, but not as fast as gated Gai, Also his tanking capapbilities can't stand up to gated attacks.

saiyaman
10-25-2009, 11:24 AM
My money is on already gated Gai. Sasuke is fast in c2, but not as fast as gated Gai, Also his tanking capapbilities can't stand up to gated attacks.

Hmm yes. You're right. But what about the time when Sasuke is pushed to his limit? That's when Orochimaru takes over. I dunno whether Gai's attacks will harm Oro for sure but clearly he doesn't have a Su'sano with a sealing sword to end that nuisance. Plus Sasuke has Kirin.

I wonder......what is Gai's elemental affinity? Has it been told anywhere in the manga?

Dagoro
10-25-2009, 11:39 AM
I presume that by limit you're referring to what happened against Itachi. That was a different scenario, Itachi planned to exhaust Sasuke's chakra so he couldn't hold back Oro's powers anymore.

In a fight against Gated Gai that will never happen. Sasuke will fall to physical dmg way before his chakra is depleted.

Myth
10-25-2009, 04:50 PM
Jiriaya and Itachi alone can kill off those 3 rofll adding kakashi isn't fair...

Konnaha_yellow_flash
10-25-2009, 05:08 PM
How about Sasuke(Pre-Itachi fight and in 2nd state of Cursed Seal) vs Gai(Gated)

Let's not forget that Gai has trained himself against the Sharingan and since Sasuke doesn't have the "Look at my finger No Jutsu" like Itachi, I can see that Genjutsu is ALMOST ruled out. I think it would be a close fight. What do you think?

Ummm, how many gates? I will presume six since thats all we've seen so hes still not as fast as raikage supermode and sasuke in C2 state has so much chakra focused in his SG he was able to see nanite bombs in his blood stream so the SG should without a doubt keep up. Plus, pre MS sasuke had a badass hendge jutsu that allowed him to escape amaterasu which is faster then Gai at 6gates so sasuke hendges and lets gai kick the shit out of a replacement till the gates wear off then sasuke pwns Gai with a blitz attack, sasuke wins!

Kakashi vs the mizukage?

ask me anything
10-25-2009, 07:34 PM
How about a battle of the brothers? 1st and 2nd Hokages VS. Raikage and Killerbee

TheSixthHokage
10-26-2009, 06:03 PM
First Hokage is God. 'Nuff said.

platinumrug
10-26-2009, 08:42 PM
It'd be interesting, considering that Hashi's wood is obviously a lot stronger than Yamato's wood and Raichu's lightning is better than Sasuke's, it could potentially do the same thing that it did back when they had the reunion at Oro's base. Where the lightning split the wood down the middle almost. But like I said hashi's wood is stronger than yamato's since he's the originator.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
10-27-2009, 12:29 AM
Wellsince Nidames eternal drakness genjustu wont work then hes going to die quick in this fight. So, basicly its KB and raikage vs harishima in which harishmas taijutsu, genjutsu and because of wood, ninjutsu wont help. Lol, the advantage the home depot kage has in this fight is the ability to keep KB from using all his bijuus power with rikudous body or w/e.

So, with raikage being untrackable and too fast to defend against without some sort of barrier while just running though harshimas wood like hot knife through butter with his raiton cloak. Lol, as well will KB with his 3tail cloak. Anyways, unless KB and rai go retarted and summon some bijuu wasting too much chakra then this fights in the bag for the clouds strongest shinobi.

ask me anything
10-27-2009, 01:01 AM
Actually it's hashirama who has the eternal darkness genjutsu. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. It probable wouldn't work on raikage when he has Raiton Armor, but KB would be toast. If they trap him in genjutsu they could double team Raikage. Even he couldn't stand up to that assault. Nidame was able to use water jutsu's to the extreme. Combine that with Hashi's wood jutsu and you got a powerful long range combo. Hashi was suppose to be an expert at hand to hand fighting, so it's not like he'd get dominated close range. Plus his wood jutsu is way stronger then yamato's. He should be able to block any of raikage's attacks.

Edit:1. Yamato's technique for suppressing the fox's chakra was invented by hashi, and works on any tailed beast, including the 8 tails. KB would have a huge difficulty fighting him.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Hokage-style_Sixty-year-old_Technique_-_Kakuan_Entering_Society_with_Bliss-bringing_Hands

2. Nidame's water abilities were so great that he could use a B Ranked jutsu that normally required 44 handsigns with just 1 handsign and without any water source. wow
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Water_Release:_Water_Dragon_Bullet_Techn ique

3. Hashi used the darkness jutsu in the manga, but Nidame was the one to use it in the anime.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
10-27-2009, 01:13 AM
Son chilllll. Don't write the second Hokage off like that. Second Hokage is probably at LEAST as powerful as Kisame is with respect to water jutsu. He could definitely slow down the Raikage by making an ocean battlefield like Kisame. (Presumably as a Hokage he would probably have a large enough chakra capacity) He also uses Kinjutsu.

Uuum, Nidames only manga feats are creating a pool of water which kisame made more at 30 percent and an eternal genjutsu that wont work because of raikages raiton armor and KBs bijuu who can break him out easily. And if nidame makes water then harishima will be slowed down as well which is bad against the raikage or KB in 3tail mode.

Although, I do think it would be a very interesting fight. Bottom line...too many details lacking in order to make a concrete decision. I think that the raikage/KB team might have the attribute advantage in this fight (as far as relative advantages of respective fighting styles). Although that doesn't necessarily mean anything. For all we know the 1st could finish Rai and his bro off alone.
Well from what we know the first hokage had massive strength and chakra, wood element ninjutsu and control of bijuu. And, that he defeated madara by putting a big sword though him.

However, rai and KB have massive strength and chakra as well. Theyre raiton attacks will go though harishimas wood like hot knife through butter. So they are harishima with greater speed and the ninjutsu advantage plus the attack that defeated madara (sword though the stomache) wont work on the raikage because of raiton armor and wont work on KN when hes in 3tail mode, only base. But then again KBs bijuu might have healing powers as well so that might not work on base KB either.

Because of these facts I would Imagine team cloud would win.

redexploit
10-27-2009, 01:36 AM
Uuum, Nidames only manga feats are creating a pool of water which kisame made more at 30 percent and an eternal genjutsu that wont work because of raikages raiton armor and KBs bijuu who can break him out easily. And if nidame makes water then harishima will be slowed down as well which is bad against the raikage or KB in 3tail mode.


Well from what we know the first hokage had massive strength and chakra, wood element ninjutsu and control of bijuu. And, that he defeated madara by putting a big sword though him.

However, rai and KB have massive strength and chakra as well. Theyre raiton attacks will go though harishimas wood like hot knife through butter. So they are harishima with greater speed and the ninjutsu advantage plus the attack that defeated madara (sword though the stomache) wont work on the raikage because of raiton armor and wont work on KN when hes in 3tail mode, only base. But then again KBs bijuu might have healing powers as well so that might not work on base KB either.

Because of these facts I would Imagine team cloud would win.


Dude, I owe you an apology. I deleted my post about 2 minutes after writing it because I felt bad that I've jumped on one or two of your posts recently. I didn't want it to seem like I was repeatedly just attacking anything that you said. Apparently you had already read it and started responding.

Anyway - Yes, I do acknowledge that manga-wise both of these cloud ninja have thrown down more impressive jutsu than those seen from the 1st and 2nd Hokages. However, I was adding "hype" to my argument because in this type of scenario, with so little information, what else can one do?

Yes - it would be a great fight. And I don't think that one side would be able to completely overwhelm the other. I could see either side taking it, but like I said, with the hype factored in, I would give it to the Hokage duo. Ideal way to judge? Definitely not, but I'll do it anyway.

mewmew
10-27-2009, 01:48 AM
i think its unfair. we know little about 2nd Hokage... So he can't use any skill other than those we've seen. I bet he'll be a greater factor in this fight if we learned more about his abilities. (like skills that neutralize enemies if they step in his water and such) If he can demonstrate kage-level combat ability, then the leaf bros have a great chance of winning since they'll be the ones dictating the battleground. And were not sure how strong Hashirama is, if he may be enough to defeat the two cloud nins. I don't think 8tails is as great a factor against Hashirama because he'll be able to neutralize it since his bijuu-taming techs are probably waay more powerful than what yamato demonstrated. For now, Cloud bros win if 2nd hokage is not a part of the equation.

Widana14
10-28-2009, 11:16 AM
not much that we know about the past kages...

it's too hard to tell...

platinumrug
10-28-2009, 01:27 PM
Lol there was no other purpose for Nidaime other than to show the power of a previous Kage. I'm pretty fucking sure that if he wanted to he could create a lake of his own. And his water was limited to where it could go thanks to the sound four's barrier tech.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
10-28-2009, 05:46 PM
The second hokage showed OK abilites in the fight weith hiruzen, but hes not anything special at all like the first, third and fourth. And simple water jutsu and usless genjutsu makes him the weakest link in a fight against opponents with super strength, speed, chakra, power ect. So, the fight would ina all liklyhood be KB and rai vs the first after the second get floored and taken out with a speed or power feat (pick one!).

Although Ive already stated most of this I feel the need to again. First the raikage. Hes faster then anyone ever, as strong as SM naruto or Jman, has just as large a chakra pool and has raiton armor that was barely pierced by chidori which went through kakuzus Iron skin like hot knife through butter. So its obvious that rais raiton armor can block all elemental and other ninjutsu exept for wind element jutsus. Then theres KB. Hes pretty fast, very strong, has rediculously effective sword combos and thats at base. Then theres 3tail KB which has very exposive speed, a hachibi cloak that will block any ninjutsu exept maybe raiton jutsu or FRS.

The first Hokage has super strength, lets say above average speed (not no raikage or 3tail KB though), huge chakra pool, wood jutsu and bijuu control. Now, all the strength and chakra pools are even then it comes down to speed, power and ninjutsu which the cloud brother have the advantage in. So, with as little manga feats as the first and second have compared to the cloud brothers plus obvious dominating advantages as well, I must go with the cloud brothers on this one.

Until more is revealed about the first and seconds abilites then theres no other way to see it other then the cloud brother claiming victory because hype mean crap. The third was called the god of ninja yet Oro toyed with him in theyre fight (dont mention prime because all that was said to be different was the stamina of the third, not speed, strength or skill).

littlee62
10-29-2009, 09:44 PM
dude the leaf brothers would win hands down. madara said hashirama is the one ninja he respected and hashirama defeated madara. madara just walked into the kage summit and no one there could touch him literally. he talked to them like they were children. hashirama alone could take down raikage and bee.

o and not to mention madara said he was not as strong as he used to be. and hashirama defeated madara at his full power.

Shrike
10-29-2009, 10:41 PM
Well, since Hashi pwnd Madara, I'd go with 1st and 2nd > Rai and KB.
I'll even say that they needn't go all out to win.

mewmew
10-29-2009, 10:50 PM
Sakura & Sasuke VS. Hinata & Naruto

platinumrug
10-30-2009, 01:05 AM
What OK abilities? At the time that was fucking amazing and still it's fucking amazing.

Widana14
10-30-2009, 10:57 PM
yea...
I think the leaf brothers rule...

TheSixthHokage
11-01-2009, 11:42 AM
Kakashi (Part 1) versus Kn0 Naruto and CS1 Sasuke (both Part One)

Vengeance
11-01-2009, 11:51 AM
Kakashi (Part 1) versus Kn0 Naruto and CS1 Sasuke (both Part One)
CS1 Sasuke with 2 tomoe I assume? At what point in the manga is this taking place? I assume chunin exam finals? Is Naruto allowed to summon bunta?

TheSixthHokage
11-01-2009, 11:57 AM
CS1 Sasuke with 2 tomoe I assume? At what point in the manga is this taking place? I assume chunin exam finals? Is Naruto allowed to summon bunta?

Sorry, two tomoe Sasuke, no summons for Kakashi or Naruto. Everything else goes. Just prior to the Naruto-Sasuke showdown.

freaz
11-01-2009, 12:05 PM
Kakashi would definitely win.
Remember Naruto and Sakura vs. Kakashi (part2)
Kakashi would have beaten them there if he fought them head on.

Naruto and sasuke, as how they are now, would win together against Kakashi..
But back then... they didn't stand a chance

TheSixthHokage
11-01-2009, 12:43 PM
Kakashi would definitely win.
Remember Naruto and Sakura vs. Kakashi (part2)
Kakashi would have beaten them there if he fought them head on.

Naruto and sasuke, as how they are now, would win together against Kakashi..
But back then... they didn't stand a chance

I don't need, Kakashi was getting worn out and Naruto and Sakura were hardly fighting with everything they had.

Huh?? You don't think Naruto or Sasuke could take out Kakashi right now? Are you crazy? Naruto in SM or Sasuke using his MS could take care of Kakashi for sure. God Realm took out Kakashi, while Naruto took out Pain...

I think kn0 Naruto and S1 Sasuke have a decent chance if they work together. One-on-One Kakashi wins easily but with both of them, his stamina is stretched to the breaking point.

platinumrug
11-01-2009, 01:31 PM
Lol don't succumb to the A>B>C so A>C argument again. :(

But I believe Kakashi would have a good heart felt battle with both of them before losing.

Dagoro
11-01-2009, 02:32 PM
Kn0 Naruto and Sasuke win here. Both have stat boosters working, rasengan and chidori were know too by then. Kakashi didn't have the feats he has now to compete. He'd lose.

Widana14
11-01-2009, 03:08 PM
Don't worry though...

Even right now Kakashi is nothing compared to Naruto or Sasuke...(or at least if they fight, it'll be one hell of a fight)

But he's still my number one Hokage candidate...

I even think that Naruto is stronger than Jiraiya because of the super skin granted by the Full Version of Sage Mode...

TheSixthHokage
11-01-2009, 03:50 PM
Lol don't succumb to the A>B>C so A>C argument again. :(

But I believe Kakashi would have a good heart felt battle with both of them before losing.

There is nothing wrong with that argument so long as you can prove that all three persons had varied levels of strength. Kakashi, even while using his MS, could barely fend off God Realm. By this observation, I could say that Kakashi = God Realm in combat ability. Naruto faced all Six Paths at the same time in Sage Mode, therefore allowing me to say he was at least something of an equal of Pain in his entire glory. So if Naruto is able to take even one more body as well as God Realm, he could rape Kakashi 1-on-1. Manga feats show him taking down several, allowing me to point out his superiority to his Taichou.

I agree with Dagoro and Platinumrug, though I could see Kakashi taking out at least one of the two, while at least damaging the other. As Dagoro said, both have super-charged super moves at this time and have huge chakra reserves so they could win through simple brute strength and attrition.

How about:

Orochimaru (Shippuden) versus Raikage

No Summons; in the Forest by Konoha

Nerox
11-01-2009, 05:53 PM
How about:

Orochimaru (Shippuden) versus Raikage

No Summons; in the Forest by Konoha

raikage, hands down...

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-01-2009, 06:11 PM
KNo and C1 sasuke vs kakashi?

Kakashi wipes them out in a minute flat! I know KN0 naruto and c1 sasuke seem real fast back then, but they still were only half as fast as kakashis full speed so its not really even fair because kakashi could just create a bushin and blitz them both with chidori.

Now, if it was KN1 naruto and C2 3 tomoe sasuke vs kakashi I think they actually stand a chance, but would still probably lose.

Oro (shippuuden) vs Raikage?

Raikage keeps Knocking Oros head off with blitz attacks until he runs out of chakra and cant use his super effective replacement jutsu anymore. And even though Oro has wind attacks, the sword of Kusanagi ect. Rais reflexes are just too fast so all of Oros attacks will fall short to the guy that avoids stuff that not even the SG cant help avoid with already rediculous speed.

saiyaman
11-02-2009, 02:51 AM
Oro(Shippuden) vs Raikage

Hmm this will be an interesting fight but Raikage will dominate most of the time. However there's one situation where the Raikage will find it hard.

In the case Oro grows too fond of Raikage's body and if Raikage gets caught in the paralyzing poison of the snake, then bye-bye Supa Speed and hello Raiton armor. Although I wonder how effective the armor will be after the Raikage takes in a lot of that poisonous smoke.

If Raiton armor doesn't stop the snake, then bye-bye Raikage and hello Ororaikage. >.>

Other than this, Raikage wins hands down.

Vengeance
11-02-2009, 11:19 AM
Without bunta the genin wouldn't stand a chance. Kakashi at this point is still faster than Sasuke even with his speed trraining while Kakashi has a 3 tomoe sharingan. When Naruto & Sasuke fought on the roof top Kakashi jumped between both fighters & sent them flying easily. Not only that but Kakashi was able to easily tie up Sasuke to give him a speach about revenge. The skill level given here is based around this timeline. As for Naruto SG genjutsu would be enough to take him out of the fight if not then Chidori to the brain. As far as Naruto & Sakura dude Naruto held his own in what was actually shown & Kakashi was getting tired.

redexploit
11-02-2009, 02:10 PM
How about:
Orochimaru (Shippuden) versus Raikage
No Summons; in the Forest by Konoha


Orochimaru. I think he would rather enjoy the fight too.

With respect to the Sannin vs. Raikage.
Oro wins
Jiraiya wins
Tsunade would have a lot of trouble, but it has been argued before and she might have a small possibility of delivering. I still wanna give it to Rai on this one though.

TheSixthHokage
11-02-2009, 03:17 PM
Maybe I think Orochimaru is one of the best villains, but I can't help but see him kill Raikage. I don't know, maybe that's just how I feel, but the Raikage seems to have Raiton Armour and advanced taijutsu. Orochimaru has the most advanced kinjutsu ever performed, more than competent ninjutsu and decent taijutsu as well as white snake regenerative abilities. Not to mention his summon, Manda. I would give it to Orochimaru for this reason above all.

Vengeance
11-04-2009, 01:13 AM
Orochimaru (Shippuden) versus Raikage

No Summons; in the Forest by Konoha

Orochimaru of all people isn't allowed to summon? LMAO ok well he'd still win because of his sword, Hydra jutsu(a transformation not a summon), his white snake form which gives off a toxic gas, doton abilities for fast movement underground which plays well in a forest, & his fuuton jutsu which gives him an edge on Raiton armor. Orochimaru managed to take out 2 Kage's I doubt any of the others besides maybe Mizukage would be able to defeat him.

TheSixthHokage
11-04-2009, 09:55 PM
Sai versus Suigetsu!

In the Uchiha ruins where Sasuke and Itachi fought.

mewmew
11-04-2009, 10:08 PM
i don't see any sai skill that could hurt suigetsu badly. and suigetsu won't be catching sai since he's more of a long range fighter. it would be a very weird fight. honestly, i dunno who will win. if it happens it will be a veryy long dragged-out fight. if sai's long range attacks can hurt suigetsu or if suigetsu can move very fast enough to close the distance, then probably we'll see a winner.

Widana14
11-04-2009, 11:59 PM
i don't see any sai skill that could hurt suigetsu badly. and suigetsu won't be catching sai since he's more of a long range fighter. it would be a very weird fight. honestly, i dunno who will win. if it happens it will be a veryy long dragged-out fight. if sai's long range attacks can hurt suigetsu or if suigetsu can move very fast enough to close the distance, then probably we'll see a winner.



agreed...

it'll be boring though...

TheSixthHokage
11-05-2009, 01:12 AM
I can't help but think Sai'd win. Suigetsu is pretty strong but I have a feeling that both Sai and Yamato are going to be hyped soon, considering both have been barely used (even less than most of the Konoha 11). Plus Sai > Suigetsu in hilarity and character design.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-05-2009, 01:29 AM
Sai vs suigetsu is lame IMO so Ill continue with Riakage vs Orochimaru.

Well, whats there to say. Because of rais reflexes, speed and raiton armor Oros taijutsu will fail, ninjutsu will fail and genjutsu doesnt even work. Oro could summon some snakes, but rais so strong he can slap those things and kill them. The only thing that would be effective is fuuton, but he only has one fuuton I know of and it sucks so no.

Lets see? Oro could hide in the earth using donton then sneak attack, but Rais reflexes and speed make that fail. Oro could use his sword of kusanigi, but chidori didnt pierce the raiton armor and it went through kakuzus Iron skin like hot knife through butter so that fails too. Well damn!

IMO, rai would just blitz Oro and Knock his head off time and time again until Oro ran out of chakra and he couldnt perform his awesome replacement jutsu anymore then he'd die for real.

Rai wins!

saiyaman
11-05-2009, 01:33 AM
Sai vs suigetsu is lame IMO so Ill continue with Riakage vs Orochimaru.

Well, whats there to say. Because of rais reflexes, speed and raiton armor Oros taijutsu will fail, ninjutsu will fail and genjutsu doesnt even work. Oro could summon some snakes, but rais so strong he can slap those things and kill them. The only thing that would be effective is fuuton, but he only has one fuuton I know of and it sucks so no.

Lets see? Oro could hide in the earth using donton then sneak attack, but Rais reflexes and speed make that fail. Oro could use his sword of kusanigi, but chidori didnt pierce the raiton armor and it went through kakuzus Iron skin like hot knife through butter so that fails too. Well damn!

IMO, rai would just blitz Oro and Knock his head off time and time again until Oro ran out of chakra and he couldnt perform his awesome replacement jutsu anymore then he'd die for real.

Rai wins!

You forgot Orochimaru's "White snake with instant paralyzing poison" no Justu. If Raikage were to get caught in that, I guess all he can do will be to activate Raiton armor. That is indeed a formidable defense.

But then again, my statement is valid if Orochimaru gets desperate enough to believe that the only way to win is to try and take over Raikage's body.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-05-2009, 01:49 AM
You forgot Orochimaru's "White snake with instant paralyzing poison" no Justu. If Raikage were to get caught in that, I guess all he can do will be to activate Raiton armor. That is indeed a formidable defense.

But then again, my statement is valid if Orochimaru gets desperate enough to believe that the only way to win is to try and take over Raikage's body.

The poison vapor comes out when oros head are cut off in Hydra form. But Oro has reason to use that form if he has a body that isnt on the brink of failure. IDK, rias just too fast, too strong, too powerful and just plain to protected by that raiton armor for Oro to do much IMO.

I think the only way Oro can take over a body is if its been infected by the Curse seal.

EDIT: There are only three people in this manga that could possibly beat all six pains one on one so lets debate.

Raikage vs pain?

Healthy itachi vs pain?

Minato vs pain?

Minato Im sure could beat pain even without info because Im very confident he could manage to touch each realm without getting killed and that makes the fight practically over thanks to the FTG and minatos reflexes.

Healthy itachi is going to be alittle faster, stronger, but most of all he can spam karasu bushins that are capable of everything he is and can use more MS jutsu plus sustain sasanoo much longer and not die.

It would be so close, but I think the extra chakra will be enough for a V for itachi IMO. Exstended sasanoo pwns even deva with ease just as it did Oro.

Now, what can I say about the raikage I already havent. Hes going to be too fast for pain to track even with 12 eyes. Hes going to be way too strong to over power with summons, ninjutsu or taijutsu. His reflexes are so fast they surpass the SG so landing ninjutsu and taijutsu most likly isnt going to happen.

Because of raiton armor the realms chakra rod combo wont work because those rods wont pierce it. Demons skewers wont pierce it and his rockets wont either.

Deva could use Shinrai tensai, but Rais so strong that it wont do much then rai will know devas power. Deva could use bansho tenshin, but what good is sucking up rai when none of the rods, kunai, demons weapons will get through the armor!?! Chibaku tensai? SM naruto powered his way out so rai should be able to too.

And because rai has bijuu level chakra hes not going to get worn down lol. IMO, rai survives long enough to learn each paths abilites then systematically pick them apart with raw speed and power.

poolangya
11-05-2009, 03:10 AM
sai vs suigetsu

suigetsu wins, he is water.sai uses ink and paper. unless the ink sai uses is waterproof,then he stands a chance. but seriously, sai is a long range fighter and also a capable melee combatant. suigetsu's edge would be if he get too close to sai, and overpower him with melee attacks.also suigetsu is not fast enuf to reach sai in an instant, but unless sai makes that fatal mistake of letting suigetsu near, sai got this one. sai 8-2 suigetsu,sai wins.

orochimaru vs raikage

raikage is fast, and he is powerful,and he is bijuu level. and he has like less than 10 jutsus including all the wrestling jutsus he has shown us. Orochimaru is a gay pedo, he has tons of jutsus including his forbidden jutsus, probably even more than copycat kakashi, he is resilient, and has a lot of resistance and regenerating jutsus. overall he's slower than raikage,but he is slicker. he will have trouble with raiton armor, but he won't be hit directly as much as you think by raikage's attacks because he may be slower but he is slick as a snake. he has a lot of damage reduction abilities. it's like a shock versus a shock absorber. but i think he can endure until maybe raikage gets tired. if raikage's bijuu level chakra is not as infinite as orochimaru's resistance, raikage will lose bigtime. but since orochimaru was not nerfed of doing edo tensei, raikage will definitely lose. Orochimaru 6-4 Raikage. Definitely a good fight but, Orochimaru wins.

Itachi vs Pain

a healthy itachi means he has good eyesight not blurred, and doesn't cough up blood while fighting. his movements will be a bit sharper. but that won't matter against Pain. Itachi's only hope of winning will be Susanoo at full, but that would make a healthy itachi an unhealthy itachi, and eventually a dying itachi. Pain won't be stupid to attack susanoo with a sword of totsuka and a yata mirror head on, an itachi wielding susanoo won't be able to catch pain. Pain 8-2 Itachi. this fight will be long but Pain has this in the bag.

Raikage vs Pain

raikage is fast. but Pain has 6 bodies. and one of em can absorb chakra. it wont be tough for Pain to restrain Raikage, once done, the fight is over. even if Raikage has bijuu level chakra, hungry ghost realm can eat it. unless Raikage can show jutsu's other than close combat wrestling jutsus, he wont win against pain. Raikage 2-8 Pain. Pain wins this.

Yondaime vs Pain

Yondaime is also fast, maybe even faster than raikage because he uses TS instead of just lightning to amplify his speed. but we have only seen very few of his jutsus so the conclusion will be biased against him. shiki fujin won't work on pain because the real one is not there. unless he can find Nagato then shiki fujin him for a draw, yondaime won't stand a chance against Pain. Yondaime 2-8 Pain.Pain wins yet again.

Vengeance
11-05-2009, 11:34 AM
Suigetsu is made of water & can control large bodies of water while Sai fights with ink. If you place water on Ink the ink will run & lose its form. Sai doesn't stand a chance in hell people. Suigetsu wins by totally owning Sai's arse.

ask me anything
11-05-2009, 01:53 PM
Sai vs suigetsu is lame IMO so Ill continue with Riakage vs Orochimaru.

Well, whats there to say. Because of rais reflexes, speed and raiton armor Oros taijutsu will fail, ninjutsu will fail and genjutsu doesnt even work. Oro could summon some snakes, but rais so strong he can slap those things and kill them. The only thing that would be effective is fuuton, but he only has one fuuton I know of and it sucks so no.

Lets see? Oro could hide in the earth using donton then sneak attack, but Rais reflexes and speed make that fail. Oro could use his sword of kusanigi, but chidori didnt pierce the raiton armor and it went through kakuzus Iron skin like hot knife through butter so that fails too. Well damn!

IMO, rai would just blitz Oro and Knock his head off time and time again until Oro ran out of chakra and he couldnt perform his awesome replacement jutsu anymore then he'd die for real.

Rai wins!

Raikage's taijutsu doesn't mean anything to orochimaru. He would just put himself back together and keep fighting. Just look at this.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/294/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/294/11/
Oro got cut in half, and easily put himself together with a smile on his face. That was fighting 4-tail naruto, so I doubt Raikages strength would be much different.

Sword of kusanigi is a lot different then chidori. Just because chidori sliced through kakuza's iron skin doesn't make it uber strong. The iron skin tech was earth based and earth is weak to lightning so of course chidori would slice through it. I would bet that the sword if kusanigi would have done the same. That sword is probable even stronger than chidori in terms of penetrating power.

My moneys on Oro in this fight.

ask me anything
11-05-2009, 01:59 PM
The poison vapor comes out when oros head are cut off in Hydra form.

BTW, the poison vapor has nothing to do with his hydra form. Oro experimented on his body to mimic the abilities of the white snake. It is in his white snake form that he secretes poison vapor into the air like he did when he tried to take sasuke's body. The hydra form was only used during the sasuke/itachi fight and I don't remember anything mentioned about poison vapor.

TheSixthHokage
11-05-2009, 02:08 PM
KYF: Jesus Christ, Buddha and Obama (the new Messiah) versus Sasuke?

Somehow I can imagine your answer :P.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-05-2009, 02:23 PM
[QUOTE]Raikage's taijutsu doesn't mean anything to orochimaru. He would just put himself back together and keep fighting. Just look at this.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/294/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/294/11/
Oro got cut in half, and easily put himself together with a smile on his face. That was fighting 4-tail naruto, so I doubt Raikages strength would be much different.

Oh really!! Oro cant even defeat a SG user and the raikage because of his speed and reflexes does feats beyond a SG user so Oros attacks will be childs play. And as I said in the previous post, Raikage will just keep knocking Oros head of till it cant grow back again with that powerful replacement jutsu.

Sword of kusanigi is a lot different then chidori. Just because chidori sliced through kakuza's iron skin doesn't make it uber strong. The iron skin tech was earth based and earth is weak to lightning so of course chidori would slice through it. I would bet that the sword if kusanigi would have done the same. That sword is probable even stronger than chidori in terms of penetrating power.

The sword of kusanigi even if some how in a million years Oro could land an attack on the riakage the sword of kusanigi has no manga feats of piercing threw anything even as tough as Iron skin. It failed against Kyuubi 4tail cloak which is basically the same thing as raiton armor expet the armor is made of raiton instead of pure chakra. And seeing as how chidori (the attack that can pierce anything) couldnt pierce it more then two inches the sword of Oro wont do jack obviously.

My moneys on Oro in this fight.

IDK why people Underesimate the riakage so much:confused: The dude is just rediculous!!! Hes faster then anyone (shushin) ever in the manga, hes as strong as SM naruto with more destructive force behind his attacks, he has bijuu level chakra and armor that makes him almost invinceable to any attack exept a strong fuuton.

Is it because sasuke chumped him? The fact is sasuke only managed to land a chidori on rai because of his own incredible speed, reflexes and SG to help. Juugos attack failed at point blank in C2 state, amaterasu failed so why the hell would these basic little jutsu hit rai if these awesome jutsu cant?

Also, without sasanoo (the godly jutsu) sasuke would be long dead against the raikages blitz attack from behind. Lol, what about a blitz attack on a already extremely fast shinobi doesnt compute:confused:

I just dont get:( Im sure kishi made him the leader kage for a reason.

ask me anything
11-05-2009, 02:25 PM
LMAO! Jesus and buddha wouldn't have to do anything. Obama can handle sasuke alone. He just has to offer a government bailout to all the ninja villages and they would do the job for him.

Better yet isn't akatsuki a mercenary group. Give madara a $1,000,000,000,000 and he will kill sasuke. Then Madara wouldn't have to conquer the shinobi world, he could just buy it! LMAO!!!!!:D

ask me anything
11-05-2009, 02:54 PM
[QUOTE=ask me anything;1766776]

Oh really!! Oro cant even defeat a SG user and the raikage because of his speed and reflexes does feats beyond a SG user so Oros attacks will be childs play. And as I said in the previous post, Raikage will just keep knocking Oros head of till it cant grow back again with that powerful replacement jutsu.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:N0UOGcsJ6gYZUM:http://api.ning.com/files/0MB5m8pjB-gvlfTe5HhYcwOoAl2WBsD7lN3d6IWPeMTi0dasrz X3-Da-RrkNVPcgzmJbcuHYdFkFgTOiCj-Nm3LvqIR2JuGk/facepalm.png Oro couldn't beat sasuke because of genjutsu, that's all. And how does someone who's already half dead getting beat make him weak. You still fail to realize Raikage's #1 weakness. He has to actually see his opponent to fight them. Oro could just hide and ambush him when he sees an opening. What's raikage going to do, just sit there with his raiton armor going while looking for oro. Eventually he will run out of chakra or he'll decide to turn it off. Either way Oro will utterly murder him when he does.



The sword of kusanigi even if some how in a million years Oro could land an attack on the riakage the sword of kusanigi has no manga feats of piercing threw anything even as tough as Iron skin. It failed against Kyuubi 4tail cloak which is basically the same thing as raiton armor expet the armor is made of raiton instead of pure chakra. And seeing as how chidori (the attack that can pierce anything) couldnt pierce it more then two inches the sword of Oro wont do jack obviously.

Wow you actually think oro's going to go head to head with raikage. Are you brain dead or something. Don't think that oro's as ignorant as sasuke or yourself. And the sword of kusanigi is a legendary weapon. And FYI it would have pierced Kyuubi 4-tails if he didn't catch it.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/296/03/
http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000225412/03.jpg

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/296/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/296/03/

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-05-2009, 03:16 PM
[QUOTE=Konnaha_yellow_flash;1766793]

[QUOTE]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:N0UOGcsJ6gYZUM:http://api.ning.com/files/0MB5m8pjB-gvlfTe5HhYcwOoAl2WBsD7lN3d6IWPeMTi0dasrz X3-Da-RrkNVPcgzmJbcuHYdFkFgTOiCj-Nm3LvqIR2JuGk/facepalm.png Oro couldn't beat sasuke because of genjutsu, that's all. And how does someone who's already half dead getting beat make him weak. You still fail to realize Raikage's #1 weakness. He has to actually see his opponent to fight them. Oro could just hide and ambush him when he sees an opening. What's raikage going to do, just sit there with his raiton armor going while looking for oro. Eventually he will run out of chakra or he'll decide to turn it off. Either way Oro will utterly murder him when he does.

Oro isnt even capable of competing on rai level. Much less sasuke or itachi with there SG's. ANd although genjutsu beat Oro this is still facthttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/345/10/
All Oros jutsu are crap before the SG^^^!

However, rai reflexes and speed alow him to do things beyond the SG like avoid amaterasu which sasuke in C2 state and an ass load of chakra focused in his SG eyes couldnt help with.

Yes Oro can ambush the raikage, but rai wll just dodge it with his Beyond SG reflexes and super speed lol. and if Oro hide ria can destroy the surrounding area with his super strength.

WHy do u bring up one weakness of rais when compared to oro who has (too slow, too weak, unable to pierce raikages raiton armor, ect).

Oro doesnt stand a chance of landing an attack if amaterasu failed to hit the guy.


Wow you actually think oro's going to go head to head with raikage. Are you brain dead or something. Don't think that oro's as ignorant as sasuke or yourself. And the sword of kusanigi is a legendary weapon. And FYI it would have pierced Kyuubi 4-tails if he didn't catch it.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/296/03/
http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000225412/03.jpg

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/296/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/296/03/


I never said that!!! And ur the one who thinks rais for some reason going to let down his raiton armor and stand still for oro to ambush him lol!!! Dont insult my intelligence when u think a guy that couldnt defeat itachi or sasuke pre MS could beat the raikage despite not being able to even compete on the same level.

For instance, for Oro to use his replacement jutsu he has to be able to react and replace his old body with a new one. But when rais moving so fast that Oro cant even see him much less react to him then hows oro going to even replace in time before hes decapitated by a raiton Punch?

If Oro hides, rai destroys everything till he finds him. If oro shows himself for even a second rai blitzes him and decapitates him. ect ect, take ur pick of how rai would kills Oro.

ask me anything
11-05-2009, 04:20 PM
http://www.dembot.net/images/facepalm/double_presidential_facepalm.jpg


Oro isnt even capable of competing on rai level. Much less sasuke or itachi with there SG's. ANd although genjutsu beat Oro this is still facthttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/345/10/
All Oros jutsu are crap before the SG^^^!

Wow your ignorance is amazing!!! What's this shit about Rai level. And your trying to bring SG into this why exactly?

First of all it was said by sasuke himself that the only reason he defeated oro was because oro was in a weakened condition. Secondly as I have explained it was because of genjutsu that oro was defeated. None of sasuke's ninjutsu or taijutsu would have done shit to oro. That's the only reason I brought sasuke up for. Raikage who doesn't use genjutsu wouldn't stand a chance. Face the facts Oro fully healthy would have shit all over sasuke. Sasuke was even in strength to raikage, so therefore oro would have shit all over raikage too.

All itachi said was that the SG can see through oro's jutsu. How does that apply to raikage VS oro? It doesn't. You just pulled that out your ass to sound good.:rolleyes:


WHy do u bring up one weakness of rais when compared to oro who has (too slow, too weak, unable to pierce raikages raiton armor, ect).

You still think raiton armor can't be pierced. lol. n00b You just said with your own words.
The sword of kusanigi even if some how in a million years Oro could land an attack on the riakage the sword of kusanigi has no manga feats of piercing threw anything even as tough as Iron skin. It failed against Kyuubi 4tail cloak which is basically the same thing as raiton armor except the armor is made of raiton instead of pure chakra. And seeing as how chidori (the attack that can pierce anything) couldnt pierce it more then two inches the sword of Oro wont do jack obviously.

You make some silly comparison between Chidori and oro's sword as if there the same. Facts are it would have pierced through kyuubi 4-tail if he hadn't grabbed the blade to slow down the impact. If not for that the sword would have peirced him. And since your saying Fox cloak is close in protective power to raiton armor, then by your own logic your admitting the sword would have pierced raiton armor too.


Oro doesnt stand a chance of landing an attack if amaterasu failed to hit the guy.

He avoided it because he saw it coming. Had sasuke attacked him from behind he would have burned to a crisp.



For instance, for Oro to use his replacement jutsu he has to be able to react and replace his old body with a new one. But when rais moving so fast that Oro cant even see him much less react to him then hows oro going to even replace in time before hes decapitated by a raiton Punch?

Sasuke was able to avoid itachi's amaterasu with a replacement tech he learned from oro. Lol you think that wouldn't work against raikage. It would actually work better because unlike itachi Rai's not smart enough to figure it out.



If Oro hides, rai destroys everything till he finds him. If oro shows himself for even a second rai blitzes him and decapitates him. ect ect, take ur pick of how rai would kills Oro.


So rai start destroying everything looking for oro. Wow that would be stupid of him, but then again he is a stupid guy. Oro sits back eating popcorn laughing at rai's ignorance. Let rai run around like a fool wasting his chakra. That just helps Oro out, which was my point. The facts are brain wins over brawn every time.


BTW Oro's body was starting to reject him when hr fought naruto. If it had not been for that he could very well have killed him.

Also with his sword Oro was able to push naruto over a mile through the woods with him landing in the side of a cliff making a huge impact crater. He wasn't even holding the sword with his hands when he did it. So how the hell can you say Oro is weak. Get your head out your ass and read the manga.

poolangya
11-05-2009, 07:43 PM
i fully underestimate raikage in this fight because as he has clearly shown us, he is all brawn and no brain at all. he fights straightforward. easy to maneuver. he just attacks attacks attacks. meanwhile orochimaru is the slickest villain we have ever seen. as slick as a snake, he would easily pwn raikage if raikage doesn't fight with the brain he has. surely he has as much chance of winning the fight against orochimaru as orochimaru has against him. he actually stands more chance of winning against oro, he's faster, stronger, superior offense and defense. but his lack of style in fighting and brainpower makes him the easiest kage to beat imo. even sasuke stood a chance while being a sitting duck inside susanoo. against orochimaru, who was a genius from sarutobi himself,raikage has no fair chances of winning. i still give the fight to orochimaru.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-05-2009, 08:17 PM
Wow your ignorance is amazing!!! What's this shit about Rai level. And your trying to bring SG into this why exactly?

Wow, ur doing what everyother narutard does when they cant prove anything, just insult and post stupid pics to show how win u r:rolleyes:

What do u mean why bring up the SG? Because Oro got pwned by two SG users and it was stated that Oros jutsu were crap before those eyes, but with the raikages reflexes and speed he can do feats beyond the SG so do u get what Im getting at?

First of all it was said by sasuke himself that the only reason he defeated oro was because oro was in a weakened condition. Secondly as I have explained it was because of genjutsu that oro was defeated. None of sasuke's ninjutsu or taijutsu would have done shit to oro. That's the only reason I brought sasuke up for. Raikage who doesn't use genjutsu wouldn't stand a chance. Face the facts Oro fully healthy would have shit all over sasuke. Sasuke was even in strength to raikage, so therefore oro would have shit all over raikage too.

Wrong, he just said Oro was weakend, not that he couldnt of one if Oro wasnt weakend. LMAO, clearly u didnt read the damn link I posted which is manga evidence that said and I quote "oro, all ur jutsu are nothing before these eyes" meaning Oros jutsu are crap when the SG can read and rect to them so easily.

OMFG!!! Sasuke would hand Oro his as without genjutsu at this point in the manga lol. Yet the only reason sasukes not dead from fighting rai is because of sasanoo the freaking Godly jutsu. R U READING THIS?? GODLY JUTSU HAD TO BE USED TO SURVIVE THE RAIKAGE!!!!!!!

All itachi said was that the SG can see through oro's jutsu. How does that apply to raikage VS oro? It doesn't. You just pulled that out your ass to sound good.:rolleyes:

Oh dear god u must be a noob! The SG reads and reacts to any nin or taijutsu by slowing them down and allowing the user to react faster. However, sasuke with C2 chakra flowing through his SG eyes couldnt dodge amaterasu even though he knew it was comming. However, raikage dodged that crap easily because he has reflexes and speed beyond what the SG can offer itachi or sasuke thanks to his raiton armor that increase his synapses and nervous system making even faster.
Please tell me u undertsand this because If not this is pointless.

You still think raiton armor can't be pierced. lol. n00b You just said with your own words.

U should face palm yourself because ur not even reading my damn posts. I said rais raton armor is almost invinceable exept against fuuton attacks because raiton is weak against it. Ur sure run ur cum catcher for someone who know very little. Lol, u should be renamed tell me all you can because u dont know jack from what Ive been reading.

You make some silly comparison between Chidori and oro's sword as if there the same. Facts are it would have pierced through kyuubi 4-tail if he hadn't grabbed the blade to slow down the impact. If not for that the sword would have peirced him. And since your saying Fox cloak is close in protective power to raiton armor, then by your own logic your admitting the sword would have pierced raiton armor too.

AHHHHHH, the kyuubi didnt grab the thing before it sent him flying noob read the darn manga, god! READ THE DARN MANGA NOT JUST ONE OR TWO PAGES.

He avoided it because he saw it coming. Had sasuke attacked him from behind he would have burned to a crisp.

OMFG!!! dude, raikage dodged an undodgeable attack that not even minato, itachi, sasuke anyother shinobi including tobi/madara couldve dodged, FACT. And the fact that he SAW IT COMMING says how hes capable of feats beyond even the SG because it cant see it comming because it appears like a summoning where the user focuses.

Sasuke was able to avoid itachi's amaterasu with a replacement tech he learned from oro. Lol you think that wouldn't work against raikage. It would actually work better because unlike itachi Rai's not smart enough to figure it out.
He didnt dodge the attack like rai he got hit by it even though hes really damn fast, but he used Oros replacement to stay alive and because he knew it was comming. SO whats ur point?

So rai start destroying everything looking for oro. Wow that would be stupid of him, but then again he is a stupid guy. Oro sits back eating popcorn laughing at rai's ignorance. Let rai run around like a fool wasting his chakra. That just helps Oro out, which was my point. The facts are brain wins over brawn every time.

Hes not stupid just hot headed like naruto. Fact is rai learned of sasukes abilites including his MS and planned his offense and defense around it. And the fact that hes the genral of the kage alliance means hes not that stupid to command every village.

Lol, if oro shows himself for a split second rais going to blitz his head off lol.

BTW Oro's body was starting to reject him when hr fought naruto. If it had not been for that he could very well have killed him.

Oro couldve used a seal to stop naruto, but he was toying with him so what. Rai isnt a stationary kn4 hes a too fast to defenbd yourself KN4 without the chakra cannon lol.

Also with his sword Oro was able to push naruto over a mile through the woods with him landing in the side of a cliff making a huge impact crater. He wasn't even holding the sword with his hands when he did it. So how the hell can you say Oro is weak. Get your head out your ass and read the manga.

Ur the one that thinks Oros going to beat a shinobi he cant even touch lol.

i fully underestimate raikage in this fight because as he has clearly shown us, he is all brawn and no brain at all. he fights straightforward. easy to maneuver. he just attacks attacks attacks. meanwhile orochimaru is the slickest villain we have ever seen. as slick as a snake, he would easily pwn raikage if raikage doesn't fight with the brain he has. surely he has as much chance of winning the fight against orochimaru as orochimaru has against him. he actually stands more chance of winning against oro, he's faster, stronger, superior offense and defense. but his lack of style in fighting and brainpower makes him the easiest kage to beat imo. even sasuke stood a chance while being a sitting duck inside susanoo. against orochimaru, who was a genius from sarutobi himself,raikage has no fair chances of winning. i still give the fight to orochimaru.

He fought sasuke hot headed. However, Oro didnt kill his brother so hes not going to be hot headed. Not to mention rai gathered info on sasuke and planned his offense and defense around those abilites so hes not stupid just hot headed like naruto.

I just find it disturbing that u think because oro smarted hes going to win:confused: By that logic shikamaru, kakashi, neji, tsunade, ect can beat rai because theyre smarter:confused:

Being smart and able to plan strategies is only half the battle. U have to have the tools and skill to apply that strategy or it will fail. and seeing as how Oro has no way of landing an attack on someone with abilites beyond a SG user that oro couldnt beat before its obvious that oro just cant win this fight IMO.

The Special One
11-05-2009, 08:43 PM
Though all Sasuke did was sit in Susanoo and guard himself. If it was nonexistant, he would dead.

I think Raikage vs. Susanoo + Amaterasu Sasuke wasn't a clear indication of how capable Raikage really is if he were to face his opponents.

Sure, Raikage doesn't have a vast ability set, and his method is straight-forward, but who cares? Against the lot of them he'd win.

Just look at what he can do:

-He's blindingly fast (no one alive can move as fast as him, especially when he activates body flicker)

-Even if he does get hit, he has increased durability. Not a lot of things can harm him enough to worry besides an enton, or a decent Fuuton. I said decent because it is assumable to say that low level Fuuton won't be nearly as effective. For example, a c rank earth ninjutsu won't beat an A rank water ninjutsu.

-And he's strong as shit. Probably close to, if not near Tsunade's strength level. One hit could prove fatal.

Yes, the only thing Raikage does is blitz the shit out of his opponents, but under normal circumstances, that's enough to lead him to victory. Susanoo was a big curve ball thrown at him, so he didn't know what else to do, or how to react. I don't think the Kages done much better than Raikage. All they did was knock a Susanoo Sasuke back and forth across the room.

Sasuke almost died because he didn't have the chakra to withstand the heat anymore, so he fainted and needed rescuing. If Sasuke was at full strength, he would have maintained Susanoo and everyone would be pouring their attacks at him much to their dismay.

I think Raikage stands a good chance against Orochimaru. Orochimaru isn't haxed to the point that he can't be touched, and Raikage's downfall is his direct reliance on closed ranged combat.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-05-2009, 08:51 PM
Lol when ur as fast as the raikage theres no need to trick the enemy because wether from front or behind he/shes not going to see it comming.

I just cant find a way for Oro to beat rai because rai has too much chakra to get warn down, hes to fast to catch or land a good flush attack on, hes too strong to overpower with ninjutsu or summons.

The only way I could see Oro beating rai is if he has a seal that can create a barrier that can catch rai and stop him long enough for Oro to land a good fuuton attack and mess up that raiton armor. But, IDK of any sort of jutsu for Oro.

ask me anything
11-05-2009, 09:30 PM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/54/Jesus_facepalm.jpg

Wow, ur doing what everyother narutard does when they cant prove anything, just insult and post stupid pics to show how win u r:rolleyes:
I can prove every bit of what I'm saying and then some. I just post pics to illustrate how aggravated I am. But you are right about one thing, I shouldn't be slinging insults around for that reason when you haven't done the same. That wasn't called for so I apologize.:o Ok now lets try this again.



What do u mean why bring up the SG? Because Oro got pwned by two SG users and it was stated that Oros jutsu were crap before those eyes, but with the raikages reflexes and speed he can do feats beyond the SG so do u get what Im getting at?

SG has nothing to do with Raikage VS orochimaru. Almost every ninja would have lost to the SG. Oro doesn't use much genjutsu that I've seen and neither does Rai. So it really comes down to Taijutsu and Ninjutsu. And yes I do get what your saying about Rais super speed, strength, reflexes,etc. He has a taijutsu advantage, but doesn't use ninjutsu. Oro on the other hand has lots of ninjutsu and has better than normal taijutsu.



Wrong, he just said Oro was weakend, not that he couldnt of one if Oro wasnt weakend. LMAO, clearly u didnt read the damn link I posted which is manga evidence that said and I quote "oro, all ur jutsu are nothing before these eyes" meaning Oros jutsu are crap when the SG can read and rect to them so easily.

So why didn't sasuke kill oro sooner. He had to wait for him to get weak enough first. And you still don't get what sasuke and itachi meant. The meant that SG can see through his attacks, and understand them. That doesn't mean they are weak. Without SG both sasuke and itachi would be better then average ninjas, but not sennin level. They won because of hax.



OMFG!!! Sasuke would hand Oro his as without genjutsu at this point in the manga lol. Yet the only reason sasukes not dead from fighting rai is because of sasanoo the freaking Godly jutsu. R U READING THIS?? GODLY JUTSU HAD TO BE USED TO SURVIVE THE RAIKAGE!!!!!!!

With sasuke's MS techs he has surpassed oro. I never said he didn't. We are arguing over Raikage VS Oro. You haven't forgot that right?




Oh dear god u must be a noob! The SG reads and reacts to any nin or taijutsu by slowing them down and allowing the user to react faster. However, sasuke with C2 chakra flowing through his SG eyes couldnt dodge amaterasu even though he knew it was comming. However, raikage dodged that crap easily because he has reflexes and speed beyond what the SG can offer itachi or sasuke thanks to his raiton armor that increase his synapses and nervous system making even faster.
Please tell me u undertsand this because If not this is pointless.

You just made one of my points for me. SG does read jutsu's which helps in forming a counter to them. It was because of this that itachi realized sasuke had used a replacement tech. Rai who doesn't have SG wouldn't be able to figure it out as quickly. Plus sasuke wanted to get some distance from itachi because he needed a little time to set up his Kirin Tech. You get my point now?




U should face palm yourself because ur not even reading my damn posts. I said rais raton armor is almost invinceable exept against fuuton attacks because raiton is weak against it. Ur sure run ur cum catcher for someone who know very little. Lol, u should be renamed tell me all you can because u dont know jack from what Ive been reading.

AHHHHHH, the kyuubi didnt grab the thing before it sent him flying noob read the darn manga, god! READ THE DARN MANGA NOT JUST ONE OR TWO PAGES.

I have read your entire post. I'm not talking about fuuton. Earlier you compared Chidori with Oro's sword. Your argument was that chidori went through kakauza's iron skin like "a hot knife through butter". You then said that chidori barely went through raiton armor a few inches therefore raiton armor must be uber strong. I tried to explain that iron skin was a earth tech and that was why chidori easily penetrated it. You seem to think that chidori must have better penetrating power then Oro's sword therefore his sword wouldn't go through raiton armor. I don't think that's the case.

Secondly you compared Kyuubi's defense to raiton armor saying that their about the same. I do agree with that assessment.

kyuubi didn't grab the sword at first because their wasn't enough pressure behind it to pierce him. He was just being pushed through the forest floor. At some time during which he grabbed the sword. When he hit the cliff side he had no where else to go and the pressure hit him full force. Why else would he grab the blade if he didn't feel threatened by it? Also as form orochi's taijutsu abilities, consider this. He punched kyuubi in the face an nothing happened, but with that sword attack he pushed the kyuubi over a mile through the forest. That's quite an impressive feat. Oro's got to have some power to do that.







Lol, if oro shows himself for a split second rais going to blitz his head off lol.Likewise if he messes up for a split second Oro's going to get him. Not to mention oro can use poison gas. IMO raiton armor can't be air proof an it? How does rai breathe if it is? I bet you never thought of that. So if it can't stop the poison gas then Oro has a huge advantage. It doesn't matter how qiuck his reflexes are if he's paralyzed.



Oro couldve used a seal to stop naruto, but he was toying with him so what. Rai isnt a stationary kn4 hes a too fast to defenbd yourself KN4 without the chakra cannon lol.
Exactly. Once again you proved my point. Oro was toying with naruto. Even in his Kn4 form oro still had the advantage. Rai can't be stronger then Kn4. FYI naruto was only stationary when he used the chakra cannon. Before he used it he was super fast.


He fought sasuke hot headed. However, Oro didnt kill his brother so hes not going to be hot headed. Not to mention rai gathered info on sasuke and planned his offense and defense around those abilites so hes not stupid just hot headed like naruto.
Do you think Oro doesn't have knowledge about Rai. Rai's been kage of his village for a while now. He had access to any info konoha had on him when he was still apart of the village. I'm sure after he left he still gathered info on different people. So your point about Rai gathering Info goes both ways. If Oro knows Rai's abilities he could come up with some counters.


I just find it disturbing that u think because oro smarted hes going to win:confused: By that logic shikamaru, kakashi, neji, tsunade, ect can beat rai because theyre smarter:confused:

Being smart and able to plan strategies is only half the battle. U have to have the tools and skill to apply that strategy or it will fail. and seeing as how Oro has no way of landing an attack on someone with abilites beyond a SG user that oro couldn't beat before its obvious that oro just cant win this fight IMO.
Oro does have the tools to win and he has the smarts. It really come down to their abilities. Oro has powerful ninjutsu and respectable taijutsu. Rai has powerful Taijutsu and no ninjutsu. Overall Oro has a better chance. Not to mention that oro's poison gas would paralyze Rai's nervous system taking away his taijutsu. Then it's all over.


Edit: anyway I've said everything I can say about his fight. I'm more interested in Jesus buddha and obama Vs sasuke.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-05-2009, 10:52 PM
I can prove every bit of what I'm saying and then some. I just post pics to illustrate how aggravated I am. But you are right about one thing, I shouldn't be slinging insults around for that reason when you haven't done the same. That wasn't called for so I apologize.:o Ok now lets try this again.

Well, offer some manga panels to prove what u say.

SG has nothing to do with Raikage VS orochimaru. Almost every ninja would have lost to the SG. Oro doesn't use much genjutsu that I've seen and neither does Rai. So it really comes down to Taijutsu and Ninjutsu. And yes I do get what your saying about Rais super speed, strength, reflexes,etc. He has a taijutsu advantage, but doesn't use ninjutsu. Oro on the other hand has lots of ninjutsu and has better than normal taijutsu.

I know Oro has amazing ninjutsu, but as itachi said, theyre nothing before the SG because it can slow down the movements and allow the user to anticipate the attack comming. However, as Ive been saying raikages reflexes and speed take it to a whole level that allows him to anticipate and dodge things that not even itachi or sasuke could. So, what Im saying is if the SG is too much for Oro to be able to land an attack then how in the world is going to hit rai whos abilites are beyond even the SG.

I know Ive said already, but theres really no other way I can think of putting it.

So why didn't sasuke kill oro sooner. He had to wait for him to get weak enough first. And you still don't get what sasuke and itachi meant. The meant that SG can see through his attacks, and understand them. That doesn't mean they are weak. Without SG both sasuke and itachi would be better then average ninjas, but not sennin level. They won because of hax.

I didnt mean Oros attacks are weak. Just that because of the SGs abilities there not much of a threat.

With sasuke's MS techs he has surpassed oro. I never said he didn't. We are arguing over Raikage VS Oro. You haven't forgot that right?

nope, I havent forgot.

You just made one of my points for me. SG does read jutsu's which helps in forming a counter to them. It was because of this that itachi realized sasuke had used a replacement tech. Rai who doesn't have SG wouldn't be able to figure it out as quickly. Plus sasuke wanted to get some distance from itachi because he needed a little time to set up his Kirin Tech. You get my point now?

Yea, but itachi didnt realise sasuke used a replacement jutsu until he walked over and turned amaterasu off to discover sasuke had hendged.

And the fact that Raikage noticed sasuke change in his eye from far away which allowed him to know sasuke was going to use his MS jutsu, thus increase his power and speed to dodge means his eyes are pretty good. Im not saying they can notice every little detail as well as the SG, but they can see movements better then the SG by the way he reacts.

I have read your entire post. I'm not talking about fuuton. Earlier you compared Chidori with Oro's sword. Your argument was that chidori went through kakauza's iron skin like "a hot knife through butter". You then said that chidori barely went through raiton armor a few inches therefore raiton armor must be uber strong. I tried to explain that iron skin was a earth tech and that was why chidori easily penetrated it. You seem to think that chidori must have better penetrating power then Oro's sword therefore his sword wouldn't go through raiton armor. I don't think that's the case.

Earth style is about making stuff more dense, ect. Fuuton cant cut it, but Raiton can pierce it which is why its considered weak I guess. And since chidori is supposed to be able to pierce anything its the only thing that can hurt earth style because fuuton can cutt everything.

Secondly you compared Kyuubi's defense to raiton armor saying that their about the same. I do agree with that assessment.

cool

kyuubi didn't grab the sword at first because their wasn't enough pressure behind it to pierce him. He was just being pushed through the forest floor. At some time during which he grabbed the sword. When he hit the cliff side he had no where else to go and the pressure hit him full force. Why else would he grab the blade if he didn't feel threatened by it? Also as form orochi's taijutsu abilities, consider this. He punched kyuubi in the face an nothing happened, but with that sword attack he pushed the kyuubi over a mile through the forest. That's quite an impressive feat. Oro's got to have some power to do that.

Im not denying that was an awesome feat, but rais reflexes and speed make it so an attack like that wouldnt be able hit him and even if somehow it did, rais so strong plus his raiton armor hes should only be a little wounded like what chidori did to him.

Likewise if he messes up for a split second Oro's going to get him. Not to mention oro can use poison gas. IMO raiton armor can't be air proof an it? How does rai breathe if it is? I bet you never thought of that. So if it can't stop the poison gas then Oro has a huge advantage. It doesn't matter how qiuck his reflexes are if he's paralyzed.

I wonder since the raiton covers his mouth too if it would dilute the poison because the raiton burns at such a high temperatue (lightnings like 1,000,000 or soemthing like that which makes amaterasu seem cold lol)

Also, to use poison gas Oro would have to be in hydra form which puts him head to head against a super powered, super speed hulk so thats not good IMO.

Exactly. Once again you proved my point. Oro was toying with naruto. Even in his Kn4 form oro still had the advantage. Rai can't be stronger then Kn4. FYI naruto was only stationary when he used the chakra cannon. Before he used it he was super fast.

Nah, I just saw the chapter again and KN4 is stationary exept for his go go gadget arms lol.
And Rais chakras was said to be as huge as a bijuu so its probably close. And Oro said himself that it was geting too dangerous to continue fighting KN4 so he fled, but thats not possible for Oro to do against someone as fast as rai even if he goes under groud rai will just destroy everything probably.

Do you think Oro doesn't have knowledge about Rai. Rai's been kage of his village for a while now. He had access to any info konoha had on him when he was still apart of the village. I'm sure after he left he still gathered info on different people. So your point about Rai gathering Info goes both ways. If Oro knows Rai's abilities he could come up with some counters.

Oro probably knows that the raikage is a hulk strong guy, but rais full speed might of been something they kept secret, IDK. Still, after Oro because a S class criminal info on his abilites and fighting style should of been easy to come by in the Bingo Book.

Oro does have the tools to win and he has the smarts. It really come down to their abilities. Oro has powerful ninjutsu and respectable taijutsu. Rai has powerful Taijutsu and no ninjutsu. Overall Oro has a better chance. Not to mention that oro's poison gas would paralyze Rai's nervous system taking away his taijutsu. Then it's all over.

Which tools? Oro has a fuuton attack but its not that strong I dont think. Other then that rai raiton shield will stop everything else exept maybe Oros sword that could go as deep as chidori did. Also, the raiton armor is a ninjutsu.

Again, Oro woulde have to go hydra form to use poison gas which would mean rai could tap dance all over Oro so the question is would rai obliterate Oro before the gas took effect or would the raiton armors high teperature nullify the gas completly so it wouldnt work.

Edit: anyway I've said everything I can say about his fight. I'm more interested in Jesus buddha and obama Vs sasuke.

Fair enough. I enjoy these civil debates alot more.

Shrike
11-06-2009, 06:24 AM
Raikage would destroy Orochimaru with no summons. But it's really stupid to limit Oro like that.

Raikage could still win because he wouldn't let Oro summon anything. Speed blitz and that shit. But knowing Oro's sneakiness, he would find a way. Once Manda is up, Edo Tensei comes next.

Raikage dead.

Not many people can handle Raikage, but he can't win this one if Oro erects Edo.

poolangya
11-06-2009, 07:45 AM
He fought sasuke hot headed. However, Oro didnt kill his brother so hes not going to be hot headed. Not to mention rai gathered info on sasuke and planned his offense and defense around those abilites so hes not stupid just hot headed like naruto.

I just find it disturbing that u think because oro smarted hes going to win:confused: By that logic shikamaru, kakashi, neji, tsunade, ect can beat rai because theyre smarter:confused:

Being smart and able to plan strategies is only half the battle. U have to have the tools and skill to apply that strategy or it will fail. and seeing as how Oro has no way of landing an attack on someone with abilites beyond a SG user that oro couldnt beat before its obvious that oro just cant win this fight IMO.

logic is not used that way. surely the others you mentioned doesn't stand a fair chance against raikage. and just to remind you we were talking about Orochimaru vs Raikage, so all my opinions are based on their character set.

you said so yourself, being smart is half the battle. and Orochimaru clearly got that half. Being hot headed or not, Raikage's skill set is mainly for pushing and pushing further straightforward. While that of Orochimaru varies. He is very sneaky, he would get hit surely, but Oro can withstand until he loses his chakra.

I haven't noticed your restriction on Orochimaru. without summons, Raikage stands a fair chance, he might even win. but with summons, edo tensei included, raikage dies.

TheSixthHokage
11-06-2009, 10:48 AM
I wasn't that impressed by the Raikage, he reminds me of an elemental Gai; impressive but not a master shinobi.

Orochimaru is one of the most powerful villains in the entire series and I doubt almost anyone could fight him one-on-one and survive. Look how easily he killed Gaara's father and how he survived, miraculously against the Death God technique. Not only this but he fought against a kn4 Naruto FOR FUN. If he can survive against Naruto in that form, than the Raikage would be doable for him, Edo Tensei or not.

I think everyone's exaggerated the Raikage since his introduction... Sasuke pretty much owned him.

Shrike
11-06-2009, 02:31 PM
^Sorry, I am far from agreeing with that.

Raikage ruined Sasuke, save for his Susano-O, and he even penetrated that with his punch. He is the first person to actually dodge Amaterasu (Itachi didn't want to hit Sasuke with it, so you tards don't try that card), and his Raiton armor couldn't be penetrated with Chidori-infused Kusanagi.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-06-2009, 05:08 PM
Edo tensai plus Oro is a fight I can agree raikage could less no doubt. Who Oro going to summon though? With rais speed I would imagine the 4th Hokage to help probably. Lol, if Oro summons some average speed shinobi Im not sure there going to help much when Ria can Blitz right past them and decapitate Oro with a raiton first, thus dispelling the summons.

Lol, Oro summons Rikudou sennin, Harishiama and Madara with Edo tensai. UFREAKINGSTOPABLE!!!

Shrike
11-06-2009, 05:14 PM
Edo tensai plus Oro is a fight I can agree raikage could less no doubt. Who Oro going to summon though? With rais speed I would imagine the 4th Hokage to help probably. Lol, if Oro summons some average speed shinobi Im not sure there going to help much when Ria can Blitz right past them and decapitate Oro with a raiton first, thus dispelling the summons.

Lol, Oro summons Rikudou sennin, Harishiama and Madara with Edo tensai. UFREAKINGSTOPABLE!!!

If he had the Edo he had against Hiruzen, he would eat all the Kages in that meeting hall altogether. Oro + Hashi + Tobirama + Minato = curbstomp of the current Kages. That combo beats everything. Even the Six Paths, easily.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-06-2009, 05:18 PM
If he had the Edo he had against Hiruzen, he would eat all the Kages in that meeting hall altogether. Oro + Hashi + Tobirama + Minato = curbstomp of the current Kages. That combo beats everything. Even the Six Paths, easily.

Lol, that would be absolute pwnage of the kage summit.

alot people probably think because the third did OK against Oro and the two summoned kages that theyre nothing specail, but Oro wasnt even fighting with the two kages otherwise Hiruzen wouldve been killed in a minute flat.

The Special One
11-06-2009, 05:45 PM
Edo Summoning with the Hokages equals death to pretty much anyone I agree. What are you going to do when the former leaders of Konoha barrage you? Sarutobi had to seal their souls in the Reaper God, and that costed him his life. It's not like you can just normally kill those summons. Even if Raikage is strong, and fast as shit, he can't destroy them.lol Not to mention he'd be going up against someone who uses a space time transfer in battle to catch his opponents off guard. Raikage would die.

I say yeah, restrick that skill at least.lol Let Orochimaru summon regularly though. Though, he'd immediately have to summon Manda as it would for defensive purposes against the Raikage. Orochimaru has long ranged ninjutsu, so he should fight him from there, that's the best way to fight the Raikage. Close ranged encounters with Raikage equals Orochimaru being planted into the earth.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-06-2009, 07:00 PM
Epic speed battle of Raikage vs Minato?

Minato has the rasengan, FTG, very quick reflexes, large chakra pool, can summon gama or any other toad boss and is a master at seals which allows him to use the shiki fuujin, ect.

Raikage has super speed beyond minatos base and reflexes that are fast enough to dodge amaterasu which appears like a summoning so rai has shown the ability to be able defend himself against the FTG by default. Rai also has raiton armor that makes any kunai or even rasengan unable to do much damage, plus a huge chakra pool as well.

Both know alittle about eachother (rai knows about the FTG and minatos reflexes while minato knows about rais huge strength and power)

GO!

Shrike
11-06-2009, 07:12 PM
^No need for discussion. Minato is superior to Raikage. He would win.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-06-2009, 07:17 PM
Yea I think minato would win too, but only after a long hard battle to wear raikage down enough to penatarte that armor of his. And since the FTG uses no chakra unlike rais super shushin, minatos saving alot of chakra while rais buring his up. Plus, since minato has a huge chakra supply as well, rais just going to run out before minato and be left a sitting duck for a FTG/rasengan combo.

Still, would be an awesome battle IMO.

The Special One
11-06-2009, 07:19 PM
Yes, Minato would win. It has more to do with strategics here and Minato's FTG gives him the greater advantage. Raikage is too straight forward to win against someone as sly as Minato is hyped to be.

Minato tosses a Kunai (marked of course) near Raikage. (Raikage evades of course). However, Minato activates FTG jutsu to appear next to that Kunai. Before Raikage can react, Minato activates body flicker and Rasengans Raikage to the back of the head.
It's that simple really.

redexploit
11-06-2009, 07:23 PM
Raikage has super speed beyond minatos base and reflexes that are fast enough to dodge amaterasu which appears like a summoning so rai has shown the ability to be able defend himself against the FTG by default. Rai also has raiton armor that makes any kunai or even rasengan unable to do much damage, plus a huge chakra pool as well.

Both know alittle about eachother (rai knows about the FTG and minatos reflexes)

Dude, Why don't you just say "RAIKAGE BEATS MINATO" You definitely stacked this waaay in Raikage's favor. We still have no concrete comparison that Raikage is definitely faster than the 4th.

This is my favorite translation, because the 4th is not even mentioned.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/462/03/

This translation is good too, because it says that the reflexes are "comparable to the yellow flash" http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-462/page003.html

Reflexes....not speed. Alright, so MAYBE, maybe his reflexes while using the raiton armor are faster than those of the 4th. But they might probably arn't that much faster. Additionally, I REFUSE to believe that a fully powered Minato rasengan cannot do squat/would only minimally damage Raikage while his Raiton is activated.

Does this still mean that the 4th would win? Not necessarily. Just manga feats alone for each character, I'd give it to Raikage. Factoring in the hype, Minato pushes Rai's shit in.

Unfortunately there is soooo much that we do not know about Minato. He obviously knew at least one element, as his ultimate (failed) plan was to combine it with rasengan. However we do not know which one. Additionally, just because people refered to him as the yellow flash, they probably didn't know exactly how FTG worked, so it is unfair to say that Raikage knows the complete mechanism.

Either way...I was just pointing out that I felt you stacked this too much for Rai. Rai doesn't need that much of a stacking, he is good enough already.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-06-2009, 07:25 PM
Yes, Minato would win. It has more to do with strategics here and Minato's FTG gives him the greater advantage. Raikage is too straight forward to win against someone as sly as Minato is hyped to be.

Minato tosses a Kunai (marked of course) near Raikage. (Raikage evades of course). However, Minato activates FTG jutsu to appear next to that Kunai. Before Raikage can react, Minato activates body flicker and Rasengans Raikage to the back of the head.
It's that simple really.

Yea, I wouldnt say its that simple. Dodging the amaterasu that also appears is enough proof that rai has the reflexes to defend himself and even dodge attacks from the FTG. Not to mention Tobi/madara wouldve had to fo done the same if he survived against minato and hes not even as fast rai.

The end result is the same I agree, but IMO it would be a harder fight for minato then usual because of rais speed and reflexes plus raiton armor that if stopped chidori would do the same for rasengan. Although it would probably cause the damage to the skin like what chidori did.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-06-2009, 07:33 PM
Sorry for the double, didnt have room on the last post

Dude, Why don't you just say "RAIKAGE BEATS MINATO" You definitely stacked this waaay in Raikage's favor. We still have no concrete comparison that Raikage is definitely faster than the 4th.

This is my favorite translation, because the 4th is not even mentioned.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/462/03/

This translation is good too, because it says that the reflexes are "comparable to the yellow flash" http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-462/page003.html

Reflexes....not speed. Alright, so MAYBE, maybe his reflexes while using the raiton armor are faster than those of the 4th. But they might probably arn't that much faster. Additionally, I REFUSE to believe that a fully powered Minato rasengan cannot do squat/would only minimally damage Raikage while his Raiton is activated.

Does this still mean that the 4th would win? Not necessarily. Just manga feats alone for each character, I'd give it to Raikage. Factoring in the hype, Minato pushes Rai's shit in.

Unfortunately there is soooo much that we do not know about Minato. He obviously knew at least one element, as his ultimate (failed) plan was to combine it with rasengan. However we do not know which one. Additionally, just because people refered to him as the yellow flash, they probably didn't know exactly how FTG worked, so it is unfair to say that Raikage knows the complete mechanism.

Either way...I was just pointing out that I felt you stacked this too much for Rai. Rai doesn't need that much of a stacking, he is good enough already.

I know about the reflexes thing, but it clearly states that rais reflexes are comperable, but with rais raiton armor on, not even the SG will be able to follow so Base rais reflexes=minatos, but raiton armor rais reflexes> minatos is how I read that.

Dude, rai is fighting minato who can move at the speed of light without burning any chakra so of course I staked it in rais favor lol.

Also, if chidori which has been proven in naruto and sasukes fight to be even caused nothing but skin damage then the rasengan would do the same.

Why would the rasengan do more other then push rai back and spin him some? Its like saying a rasengan could beat a rasengan even though chidori couldnt pierce a rasengan. Theyre equal so it should do the same amount of damage.

The Special One
11-06-2009, 07:49 PM
Yea, I wouldnt say its that simple. Dodging the amaterasu that also appears is enough proof that rai has the reflexes to defend himself and even dodge attacks from the FTG. Not to mention Tobi/madara wouldve had to fo done the same if he survived against minato and hes not even as fast rai.

We know Raikage has fast reflexes (he's comparable to Minato's), heck Minato could avoid Amaterasu with his body flicker as well (since the sharingan obviously can't track such movements). FTG is a whole different ball game though because it's a space-time transfer, which means it instantly summons Minato to the area of interest instantly by going in between dimensions. Raikage would lose sight of Minato's wearabouts, while Minato would have an instant beat on Raikage's position (due to him appearing either to the side, or behind Raikage via the Kunai rites).

And let's say Minato attacks using a body flicker to increase his attacking speed, Raikage wouldn't have enough time to react, because he wouldn't know where Minato would be coming from (assuming he doesn't know the characteristics of the FTG [based off what the Rock said, all they knew as that once his hair color was seen, that was the last thing they've seen. So I doubt the cloud has knowledge on the FTG].

Thus, Raikage loses. I say Rasengan to the back of the head because his body obviously might lesson the effects of Rasengan, like it did with the same rank jutsu called chidori. I honestly don't understanding why Sasuke attacked Raikage's body with the chidori anyway, he should have known that it wouldn't work given his physique, and the armor protecting his vitals. A few inches to the head would have been fatal if he tried to get up higher by jumping or, something.

But Kishi kind of never made the Rasengan or, Chidori headshots, but Minato is experienced killer, he knows not to make novice mistakes such as hitting armor on the body that is big and glowing strongly.lol

Shrike
11-06-2009, 08:07 PM
It is true that base Raikage speed > base Minato speed, especially with the final chakra levels he went to in his fight vs Sasuke, but Minato has FTG, is smarter, better tactics (obviously), Rasengan which can at lest partially pierce his Lightning Shroud, and can probably use KB, genjutsu etc. He was called a genius, after all. Not to mention, we don't even know his elemental affinity, and who knows, maybe he could use three elements even.

Also, that translation where Minato isn't even mentioned isn't right, I read the raw myself and it clearly said Kiiroi Senko, which means Yellow Flash.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-06-2009, 08:08 PM
[QUOTE]We know Raikage has fast reflexes (he's comparable to Minato's), heck Minato could avoid Amaterasu with his body flicker as well (since the sharingan obviously can't track such movements). FTG is a whole different ball game though because it's a space-time transfer, which means it instantly summons Minato to the area of interest instantly by going in between dimensions. Raikage would lose sight of Minato's wearabouts, while Minato would have an instant beat on Raikage's position (due to him appearing either to the side, or behind Raikage via the Kunai rites).

Minatos fast, Madaras SG was still able to track him so hes not as fast as the raikage at full speed using shushin. The FTG is just summoning yourself to where the blood seal is so its just like amaterasu which Ignites where the user is looking so its instanious as well as the FTG.

ANd all rai would have to do is avoid the kunai of track the kunai to land an attack on Minato because minato wouldnt know rai can move so fast its pretty much instantaneous as well so now that I think about that, it plausible that rai could hide his true speed until minato used the FTG then just use super speed to move with the kunai then attack when minato appears.

And let's say Minato attacks using a body flicker to increase his attacking speed, Raikage wouldn't have enough time to react, because he wouldn't know where Minato would be coming from (assuming he doesn't know the characteristics of the FTG [based off what the Rock said, all they knew as that once his hair color was seen, that was the last thing they've seen. So I doubt the cloud has knowledge on the FTG].

Raikage reacted to an instantaneous attack already (amaterasu) and dodged it. So its going to be the same for the FTG as well unless minato overwhelms rai with too much movement and KBs as well, bu he never showed the ability to use use KBs.

Thus, Raikage loses. I say Rasengan to the back of the head because his body obviously might lesson the effects of Rasengan, like it did with the same rank jutsu called chidori. I honestly don't understanding why Sasuke attacked Raikage's body with the chidori anyway, he should have known that it wouldn't work given his physique, and the armor protecting his vitals. A few inches to the head would have been fatal if he tried to get up higher by jumping or, something.

A rasengan to the back of the head would probably do it lol. Still, being able to land a accurate shot on someone moving so fast that minatos eyes arent going to be able to see him move so how hes going to know where hes aiming?

But Kishi kind of never made the Rasengan or, Chidori headshots, but Minato is experienced killer, he knows not to make novice mistakes such as hitting armor on the body that is big and glowing strongly.lol

This is something I forgot to mention before.

Minatos not going to be able to track rai movements so he too is at a disadvantage which makes the fight even more difficult. ANd even though I have no proof I would Imagine minato has some kind of seal jutsu for fast untrackable opponents since hes a seal master.

redexploit
11-06-2009, 08:09 PM
I know about the reflexes thing...so Base rais reflexes=minatos, but raiton armor rais reflexes> minatos is how I read that.

Dude, rai is fighting minato who can move at the speed of light without burning any chakra so of course I staked it in rais favor lol.

Hahaha, well said. I fully accept that now.


Also, if chidori which has been proven in naruto and sasukes fight to be even caused nothing but skin damage then the rasengan would do the same.

Why would the rasengan do more other then push rai back and spin him some? Its like saying a rasengan could beat a rasengan even though chidori couldnt pierce a rasengan. Theyre equal so it should do the same amount of damage.

I still think, just given the nature of a rasengan (versus that of a chidori), that rasengan would be more effective. To me, instead of lightning canceling out lightning, it is more like a lightning-enhanced structure trying to stop a chakra grenade (rasengan). I feel that the rasengan would leave a bigger overall bang. Will it penetrate as much? No, but the shock/overall explosive force will end up doing more damage than a chidori. Minato can most likely span rasengan all day and probably can make one where he puts a larger amount of chakra in it (but that is not fair to assume that for this fight). A Minato rasengan in this case would probably be like punching Raikage w/o his raiton armor.

Heh...difference of opinion.

ask me anything
11-06-2009, 09:00 PM
We know Raikage has fast reflexes (he's comparable to Minato's), heck Minato could avoid Amaterasu with his body flicker as well (since the sharingan obviously can't track such movements). FTG is a whole different ball game though because it's a space-time transfer, which means it instantly summons Minato to the area of interest instantly by going in between dimensions. Raikage would lose sight of Minato's wearabouts, while Minato would have an instant beat on Raikage's position (due to him appearing either to the side, or behind Raikage via the Kunai rites).

And let's say Minato attacks using a body flicker to increase his attacking speed, Raikage wouldn't have enough time to react, because he wouldn't know where Minato would be coming from (assuming he doesn't know the characteristics of the FTG .

Could minato form a rasengan and teleport it with him using FTG? Because that's the only way that would work. It takes at least a second to form rasengan and raikage isn't going to sit there and let himself get hit. I don't think rasengan has a chance of piercing Raiton armor anyway, because it isn't designed as a piercing attack. Even if it did work, Raiton armor would absorb most of the attack leaving minimal damage. After a couple of hits Raikage's going to figure out the attack and learn to completely avoid Minato's kunai knife. To be fair though, that doesn't really help him. Minato could fake a FTG to throw him off guard and open him up for a different move.

Thus, Raikage loses. I say Rasengan to the back of the head because his body obviously might lesson the effects of Rasengan, like it did with the same rank jutsu called chidori. [B]I honestly don't understanding why Sasuke attacked Raikage's body with the chidori anyway, he should have known that it wouldn't work given his physique, and the armor protecting his vitals. A few inches to the head would have been fatal if he tried to get up higher by jumping or, something.

But Kishi kind of never made the Rasengan or, Chidori headshots, but Minato is experienced killer, he knows not to make novice mistakes such as hitting armor on the body that is big and glowing strongly.lol

Didn't kakashi say a long time ago that their are 8 or 10 (can't remember) critical spots that shinobi learn to aim for. The head, heart, jugular, etc. It looked like sasuke was aiming for the heart. If he had peirced him a few more inches Raikage would have been in serious trouble. Even is sasuke missed the heart, he could have collapsed a lung or cut the aorta, both would have been critical.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This really is a hard fight to decide. If you go by hype then minato, but if you only consider what has been proven ability wise so far then Raikage. Let me explain further.

Minato was a genius, but his only confirmed techs are Rasengan, FTG, and taod summoning. I'm not even going to talk about his death god jutsu because that would end in a tie. Considering he died young and that each of his techs likely took some time to create his variety might be limited like naruto's is. The techs he does have aren't enough to beat Rai. I think Rai could survive a few Rasengans, but minato wouldn't survive one of his punches. The guys human after all. Bunta wouldn't do much good either, except for a distraction. If bunta hit Rai with his knife it might pierce his armor. It would be interesting to see if a metal sword could interfere with lightning abilities by grounding them, or disrupting the flow of electricity. Minato has a lot of chakra, but no one's ever compared it a bijuu. Over all Rai wins for his endurance and because he has decades of experience.

Now lets add the hype. We don't know the full extent of minato's frog jutsu's. I'm sure J-man taught him a lot of what he knew. If he taught him swamp of the underworld then :eek:. Also his unknown element plays a huge role. If he was wind type then bye bye raikage. His taijutsu skills are unknown. I assume at the minimum he'a as good as kakashi. Add in FTG and Rai won't know what hit him.

The fact is when minato took the role of hokage the ninja world was still unstable. The 3rd ninja war had just ended a few years before and peace was uneasy. At that time Hiruzen was about 50 and still uber strong. he could have waited another 5-10years before retiring,but he didn't. For him to have faith in minato's abilities then adds more hype then any of us ever could.

Another fact is that during the few years he was hokage no one fucked with konoha. It wasn't till after minato's death that Raikage tried to steal the Byakugan. So why didn't Hiruzen go to war right then and their. IMO, it's because he wasn't a fool. He knew he lost the most powerful ninja in the village. That's further illustrates minato's strength.

Personally I hate hype, but if even half of what's said about him is true then minato would beat Raikage.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-07-2009, 12:53 AM
Im not sure if minato could use bushins or not because it was never shown or said so IDK.

The more I think about it because the fact that minato has to take the time to throw a kunai to perform the FTG which is just a split second, rai could already be within striking distance depending on his distance from the start of the fight.

We have to remember although minato can move at the speed of light, before and after her reappears hes still not capable of following rais movements or able to keep up with them. So, just as likly as minato is to adapt to rais movements the same goes for rai adapting to his pre and post FTG movements and timing them then either blitzing minato right before or just as he appears using super reflexes to react almost instantaneously which makes this more difficult to judge not paying attention to hype and by what little we know minato can do.

If minato is skilled with KBs like naruto then yea he would win, but if not Im not sure because just the FTG, rasengan and bunta isnt going to beat rai when rais fast enough to react and dodge the FTG, rasengan wont do much damage and bunta would die a painful death if he stepped in.

And the shiki fuujin jutsu wont work because u have to grab a hlod of ur opponent, but rais covered in raiton so that cant happen because as far as I know Lightning burns at higher temperatures then the surface of the sun lol.

I know minato could still probably win without bushins, but theres still that chance rai cant time minatos reappearence then use his super refelexes and speed to blitz minato just as he appears which would be one hit one kill.

IDK!!!

platinumrug
11-07-2009, 03:56 AM
Rasengan would be total rape if it could be fired off like Yusuke's spirit gun. Total annihilation of the opponent.

The Special One
11-07-2009, 06:06 AM
Minatos fast, Madaras SG was still able to track him so hes not as fast as the raikage at full speed using shushin. The FTG is just summoning yourself to where the blood seal is so its just like amaterasu which Ignites where the user is looking so its instanious as well as the FTG.

Minato uses body flicker though, I don't think it should be able to track him if he's using body flicker to mask his movements. From Kakashi Gaiden, it wasn't made apparent if he uses his foot speed without the chakra stimulating his physical reflexes (that's what body flicker probably his). Minato must might body flicker all the time. I think Amaterasu is near instant. The Shinobi can see Amaterasu spring from the sharingan's eye and pursue. As in the case where Itachi used it on Sasuke, Sasuke ran quite aways before Amaterasu actually caught him.

FTG summons Minato at that mark so instantly that he flickers out of the picture and appears wherever that mark is, it has it's psychological effects too. Where as Amaterasu leaves a trail, FTG dosen't because it is a space-time transfer, so Minato goes inbetween dimensions to appear at the location in which he is summoned.

Raikage reacted to an instantaneous attack already (amaterasu) and dodged it. So its going to be the same for the FTG as well unless minato overwhelms rai with too much movement and KBs as well, bu he never showed the ability to use use KBs.

Amaterasu is near instant, as a faster shinobi can run before it inevitablly catches them. But Amaterasu was fired at Raikage's front, so he saw the attack anyway. I'm saying Minato would toss Kunai that are marked at him (this will cause him to avoid obvious) however, where they land, or what Marks Minato decide to reverse summon him self too, may be from the side, or from the rear of Raikage. All of which are attacks that Raikage probably wouldn't expect (because he seemingly avoided normal Kunai).

And Minato probably doesn't have the chakra for that many shadow clones, but he doesn't need it anyway. He has multiple Kunai he can throw that can be marked (or he can mark areas of interest). By throwing a few marked projectiles, he will indefinitely catch the Raikage off guard. Even if Raikage is naturally faster than Minato, if Minato attacked Raikage in a way he couldn't predict, plus if Minato uses his own body flicker (to increase his striking speed), he very well will catch Raikage off guard.

Minatos not going to be able to track rai movements so he too is at a disadvantage which makes the fight even more difficult. ANd even though I have no proof I would Imagine minato has some kind of seal jutsu for fast untrackable opponents since hes a seal master.

Minato was never known to be a tracking type, but it's not really needed in this case. As long as he has marked projectiles, he can avoid the Raikage's attacks and manage to catch him.

Could minato form a rasengan and teleport it with him using FTG? Because that's the only way that would work. It takes at least a second to form rasengan and raikage isn't going to sit there and let himself get hit. I don't think rasengan has a chance of piercing Raiton armor anyway, because it isn't designed as a piercing attack. Even if it did work, Raiton armor would absorb most of the attack leaving minimal damage. After a couple of hits Raikage's going to figure out the attack and learn to completely avoid Minato's kunai knife. To be fair though, that doesn't really help him. Minato could fake a FTG to throw him off guard and open him up for a different move.

Yeah, some things of how the FTG works is kind of undiscovered. We don't know if he makes handseals or, not to ignite the summoning. (Maybe he could do it when he goes inbetween time and space.) But that doesn't seem like he'd have enough time for that. Maybe as soon as he activates his chakra, he teleports to the rite. So if he uses body flicker (which uses chakra to increase the physical reflexes of a shinobi), maybe that is enough for the rite to pick up the signal and instantly summon there. So maybe forming Rasengan might do the trick, I don't know.

But Rasegan would be the only thing to work because those Kunai aren't going to pierce Raiton Armor and to our knowledge, we don't know of Minato's elemental ninjutsu. So Rasengan is our only bet for now.

Didn't kakashi say a long time ago that their are 8 or 10 (can't remember) critical spots that shinobi learn to aim for. The head, heart, jugular, etc. It looked like sasuke was aiming for the heart. If he had peirced him a few more inches Raikage would have been in serious trouble. Even is sasuke missed the heart, he could have collapsed a lung or cut the aorta, both would have been critical.

But Raikage was in his Raiton Armor anyway you look at it. Also, Raikage's body was built like an ox's, his muscle tissue would shield him from Sasuke's chidori attack on the lot of his body. A face or, nect shot is the only option in taking down the Raikage. Though the plot saved Raikage as it saved Sasuke as well. Sasuke shouldn't have been able to avoid Raikage's eblow (which moves at speeds above the sharingan's capturing capabilities), while Sasuke attacking his left chest. Yes, Sasuke went for a vital, but look at the Raikage's body, and at that armor, that attack to kill just seemed silly.

Minato would have to Rasengan Raikage's neck or, head. That's the only way.

Vengeance
11-07-2009, 07:59 PM
People are actually debating Raikage vs. Minato? Raikage is overated because of his raiton armor while Minato is overated because he never fought. Really though what does Raikage have on FTG & Rasengan combination? People do know that Rasengan causes internal damage & has more destructive force when compared to Chirodi which only pierces right? FTG & Rasengan are enough for the win here as Raikage is stupid while he also isn't as fast as some claim him to be. Minato's Shushin was actually quite fast this was shown in Kakashi gaiden when he saved Kakashi. Yet people want to assume Raikage is faster than his shushin why exactly? I just don't see it that way what Raikage's reflexes is compared to is Minato's shushin not his FTG. Highspeed movement & space/time(or teleportation depending on what you want to call it) are two completely different things.

Myth
11-07-2009, 09:12 PM
Minato is god in speed I've already proved this to a certain someone by providing manga panels.. The raikage 's speed was never even comapred to Minato's fucking dumbass newbs need to learn to read...

SPEED= RATE OF MOTION
REFLEX SPEED = REACTION TIME

So bascially if i tried to throw a punch its how quick your body would react in order to dodge.. THAT REFLEX SPEED..
Speed, is how fast you get from point A TO POINT B...

All minato would need to do is tap the raiakge and he's fucked cause from there on its all SPEED OF LIGHT MOVEMENT... Last I checked nobody can keep up with that.. NOT EVEN MADARA SINCE HIS T/S JUTSU fails in combat compared to minato's.. No i won't explain this because you'd have to be an idiot not to understand what I mean. I know TSO knows exactly what I mean..

EDIT: Kyf nobody can dodge FTG its speed of light movement in order to dodge it you'd need to move at the speed of light as well... Im hoping you made a mistake because if you actually meant that then WOFUCKINGOW.

TheJkid
11-07-2009, 10:32 PM
Now I might very well be wrong, but I am pretty sure Minato's speed is based of a time/space jutsu Its his speed added into a jutsu, There isn't very just cause to say who would win in the battle but, Knowing what we know Raikage would lost becuase Of how fast minato is plus his time space jutsu. Riakage couldn't dodge it in time, Riakage is good with speed in strength, I don't think he has much intellect to seriously fight Minato.

There is to many if's when it comes to Riakage winning I've Logically have to agree with the minato being a better choice.

Myth
11-07-2009, 10:50 PM
This thread became so gay i can't even come in and debate normally cause its a bunch of retards posting non cannon bullshit assumptions/theories and they can't read a simple line in the manga...

Shrike
Vengeance
TSO
Plat
Dagoro

the only normal posters left, and some newbs are ok BUT BARELY...

deidara vs kakashi same place where sasuke fought with dei.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-07-2009, 10:52 PM
Good god myth and veng, theres sometimes I swear ur the same person lol.

Anyways, Minato has great speed like sasuke and itachi, but not raikage lmao! Raikages reflexes at base were compared to minatos, but were said to be taken even further by the raiton armor so dont BS myth because minato needs a T/S jutsu to move instantaneously, meanwhile rais shushin in spuer mode is instantameous as stated by the mangahttp://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-463/page014.html

Lol, because his speed is instantaneous, able to avoid amaterasu which ignites where the user is focusing so basicly it appears like a summoning and because not even two SG eyes can track the movements which cant be said for minatos attacks because he said madara saw threw everything he did so obviousy minato couldnt land a attack on someone with one SG meaning the movements could still be seen otherwise madara wouldve tagged with a seal and killed.

Also Veng, rasengan has more destructive power yet it couldnt destroy chidori so obviously if chidori couldnt pierce the raiton shield that far then the rasengan wont even get threw, just spin rai like a dradle lol.

Although Im sure minato could win, it would still be a close battle because of aris reflexes and speed that would make a FTG attack combo hard to land. ANd even if it did it wouldnt hurt rai, but just Knock him around while his armor protects against the destructive force.

TheJkid
11-07-2009, 10:59 PM
Deidara hands down, The c-4 explosives is what would do kakashi in the micro sized bombs would end up killing him because from what we have seen kakashi doesn't have a full body lightning jutsu.

Kakashi also couldn't copy deidara's abilities because I believe there are a bloodline trait!.
Kakashi's ms ability is not focused enough to locate a killing spot on dei ethier.

However to give kakashi a hands up, He knows over 1000 jutsu he has copied.
And with kakashi's intelligence it would be a weird match to see .
Dei is to rash and impulsive to actually put up a good fight with kakashi if it came down to it he would use his c-4 and kakashi loses.

Myth
11-07-2009, 11:02 PM
wOW kyf YOU FUCKING FAIL...

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-08-2009, 12:10 AM
wOW kyf YOU FUCKING FAIL...

W/e dude, Im not the one that fans minato to a rediculous level even though hes my favorite character. As I said a million times to u, U can believe 2+2=chicken for all I care, the problem is that u actaully believe it so that makes it true I guess, lol.

Anyways, Kakashi vs Deidara?

Deidara already knows about kakashis MS jutsu so hes going to keep his distance which will mean kakashis going to have to use that great startegising he does. So, by using KBs, the SG, raikiri and erath syle with a great strategy I think kakashi could actually beat deidara.

However, if deidara can keep his distance and overwhelm kakashi with constant C2 and C3 attacks till kakashi is worn down he could beat kakashi.

Vengeance
11-08-2009, 12:28 AM
1. I don't even like Minato. I'm not fanning him I'm giving my opinion based on the facts we do have on both characters which isn't much at all. Minato shouldn't even be used in debates because he never fucking fought anyone.

2. Myth & myself have disagreed on tons of shit in the past yet people have recently been saying that I ether kiss his arse or we are the same person? Really now people can't agree once & while without one of them being an arse kisser?

3. I'm not even going to bother responding to the above mentioned crap in regards to this so called debate on two overrated characters. One was defeated by an overconfident 16 year old who was able to keep track of him(Sasuke dodged his first attack, was able & turn his head to set up an Amaterasu counter, & was able to prepare Amaterasu spikes BEFORE Raikage was able to pull off his leg drop) while the other never actually fought anyone but can use space/time & has a jutsu that does this (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/176/10/) to a persons insides. Think what you want I honestly don't give a shit.

Edit
deidara vs kakashi same place where sasuke fought with dei.
With 3 tomoe sharingan Kakashi's eye should be able to "give color to chakra". Yes Diedara would know of Kakashi's dojutsu however the same can be said about Diedara's attacks as well. Diedara would ideally start on the ground in somewhat close proximity to Kakashi. Kakashi's Raiton wolf could be used to prevent Diedara from flying off the ground. Diedara's clay bombs take time to form time Kakashi wouldn't give Diedara. Kakashi wins this as Diedara's tecs are weak against Raiton, Kakashi can dodge attacks using doton travel, block with doton walls or double handed Chidori's, & Diedara can't do anything against Kamui other than try to run(Kakashi still managed to tag Diedara from a great distance while he was running).

platinumrug
11-08-2009, 12:38 AM
Raichu wasn't beaten though, the fight was merely interrupted. I mean unless Raichu is dead as shit on the ground he wasn't defeated, lol. But it doesn't really matter to me, Raichu isn't as fast as Minato, and Minato has been dead for nearly 16 years in manga time, why does everyone compare his skills to people now? Crazy.

Vengeance
11-08-2009, 12:55 AM
Raichu wasn't beaten though, the fight was merely interrupted. I mean unless Raichu is dead as shit on the ground he wasn't defeated, lol. But it doesn't really matter to me, Raichu isn't as fast as Minato, and Minato has been dead for nearly 16 years in manga time, why does everyone compare his skills to people now? Crazy.
Raichu would have burned to death because of the Amaterasu while Sasuke was still being protected by Susano'o. Raichu's leg would have caught fire & raise up to the rest of his body as heat travels upward. What's Raichu going to do at that point stop,drop, & roll with a flame that burns for 7 days & nights? Really now Gaara saved Raichu's life no matter how you look at it. Raichu would ether burn to death or die of blood lose which ever came first.

poolangya
11-08-2009, 12:57 AM
i think raichu actually intends to end the battle with the leg drop. maybe thinking that the amaterasu flames will disappear when the caster is dead or unconscious. but yeah,technically he was saved by gaara from his hotheadedness.

deidara vs kakashi

When deidara flies.kakashi's chances of winning got all time low. it's either he win or they both die.

kakashi's hope is that he can kamui deidara when airborne. c4 might not work because he has sharingan,and possibly he has a lightning counter to it. and he has that protective mask of course. taijutsu wise they are comparable,deidara might even be superior based on what he've shown agains team gai. overall deidara has more destructive power, and unless kakashi can counter every clay attack deidei has,he dies.deidara 6-4 kakashi. deidara wins.

platinumrug
11-08-2009, 01:12 AM
Well he isn't dead, so he wasn't beaten, the shit was interrupted. I'm not saying that if he had connected the hit, he WOULDN'T have died from it because we all know he would've but he didn't get defeated, soo lol.

Vengeance
11-08-2009, 01:18 AM
Raichu lost an arm while Sasuke had a busted lip. In my book that means Raichu lost.

Myth
11-08-2009, 01:40 AM
kyalwaysfails is hilarious i was thinking about actually decoding his crap but as soon as i saw him comparing speed of light movement to raikage i stop'd..

Minato is and remain the god of speed in this manga.... facts back this up....

@Plat the manga compares some ppl to Minato because even though he was so young and died early he fucking set the bar of power and skill for his age..

there's only 2 ppl in this manga that could be potentially stronger and its only because they lived longer then he did lol.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-08-2009, 02:37 AM
Lol Penor Myst! U so dense sometimes, I swear. Yes minato moves at the speed of light from where he is to the kunai, but the kunai isnt moving that fast at all in comparison to shushin speeds. So, raikage could just follow the kunai then wait for minato to reappear and ambush him using his super reflexes and speed. No matter what u may think is fact, raikage being the fastest (shushin) is Objective and manga fact.

Anyways, How about Demon realm vs Lee with weights already off (where lee fought kimimarro)?

EDIT:Where'd the rai vs sasuke come from? Or why is it still being debated? Sasuke landed 1 (amaterasu) and a 1/2 (partial chidori) while rai twice hit sasanoo that blocked the attacks exept for the chop to the neck that didnt get completly stopped. Still, is rais full speed chop to sasukes frail neck caused nothing but a busted lip then rais simple body weight leg drop wouldnt have done any better and he wouldve been completly Ingulfed in amaterasus flames then died. So gaaras intervention saved rais life and saved sasuke a slight bruse to the face from the leg drop.

Myth
11-08-2009, 03:06 AM
Once again KYALWAYSFAILS does what he does best FAIL, he doesn't even know how ftg works rofll and he's devising plans ROFLLLLL...And for some reason he thinks the raikage knows how ftg works ROFLLLLLL...

i LOVE HOW YOU COPY ME THOUGH YOU'RE LIKE MY SHADOW.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-08-2009, 04:34 PM
W/e Myst! All u do is run that Cum Catcher of urs which seems to be the only thing ur good at lol. And if u would stand up and take that Fuuton Infused sage sausage out of ur ass that seems to be blocking Oxygen to ur brain u would know that u replied to my thread (whos the strongest) and my Vs fight (minato vs raikage) so stop following me around and acting like I'd even follow u. Lol, its pathetic dude.

New fight! Base naruto vs Gai in konaha crater?

lamps123
11-08-2009, 05:45 PM
gai without gates base naruto wins(summons,futonrasengan,shd clones)

poolangya
11-08-2009, 09:12 PM
gai vs base naruto?

meaning gai can pull out gates from his ass? naruto would be hardpressed.. although he would put up a very good fight imo. mass kagebunshin, 50% rasenshuriken. bunta summoning.in actuality,naruto has more chances of winning.that is if he can take the fight to longer lengths. Gai using gates means he has to defeat naruto within the duration of his gates.and we know gai is not much of a chakra beast,while naruto is. he can pull out kagebunshins over and over again to distract gai and conceal his whereabouts,until gai can do gates no longer. plus,he can summon bunta and other frogs. plus he can 50% rasenshuriken gai. all in all, i go for naruto winning this one. gai only have 2 weapons: his taijutsu and gates. and naruto can show competitive taijutsu. plus a lot more techs than gai. naruto 8-2 gai. 2 because gai can early gatez then blitz naruto and he is wearing green tights. naruto wins.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-08-2009, 11:38 PM
Yall know Gai is even faster than kakashi (by alittle) at base, right. And naruto base speed is slow as piss in comparison so theres always the chance Gai knowing of narutos KB skills will try and blitz naruto and take him out quickly before he can make any KBs or summon.

But if naruto can manage to Create some KBs and hide he can probably win if Gai doesnt catch on to his startegy.

However, If gai realeses 6 gates naruto better create a bunch of bushins to distracts Gai long enough to hide ina hole or something lol. With Gai speed and explosive power at 6gates 100 KBs will be gone in about 4 seconds so it has to be quick or Gai might see him hide and blitz him.

Even at KN2 Gai at 6gates would KO naruto with one combo.

Either naruto beats Gai by using bushins, rasengan and his massive chakra or Gai blitzes naruto.

poolangya
11-09-2009, 02:15 PM
oh i forgot,naruto can henge into a rock. mass kagebunshins + rock henge would definitely make maito gai piss in the pants, even at gate mode.

unless gai can make the first move and eliminate all possibilities of naruto doing a mass kagebunshin, his chances of winning are virtually low.

MikeyM1979
11-09-2009, 04:51 PM
So, base Gai vs base Naruto? Gai is automatically faster, stronger, and has better reflexes. The problem is that Naruto is great with using clones to either overwhelm his opponent, or to gain him battle information. His usage of clones will be what wins him a fight against base Gai. I can't see base Naruto alone beating someone like Gai without full use of his techniques. Just one thing...why is Naruto allowed summons, while Gai had his main advantage taken away?

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-09-2009, 05:11 PM
So, base Gai vs base Naruto? Gai is automatically faster, stronger, and has better reflexes. The problem is that Naruto is great with using clones to either overwhelm his opponent, or to gain him battle information. His usage of clones will be what wins him a fight against base Gai. I can't see base Naruto alone beating someone like Gai without full use of his techniques. Just one thing...why is Naruto allowed summons, while Gai had his main advantage taken away?

??? Gai can summon his turtle, but how would that help him? Gai should save his chakra and focus for finding the real naruto and blitzing him IMO.

Also, @Poolayga:
Lets not use PNJ skills in the VS thread fights like Sasukes ability to summon boss summons when he has no chakra, or naruto magicly manifesting clones into rocks with no smoke being created like everyother time hes made KBs. That aside naruto can still win using Mass KBs, rasengan and keeping himself hid.

Myth
11-09-2009, 05:30 PM
Lol Naruto would fuck him easily, i don't even need to explain this.... Naruto summons Fukasaku he summons shima while gai's busy fighting naruto they cast the frog genjutsu GAME OVER.

The Special One
11-09-2009, 05:32 PM
.lol Let's take away all summonings and Naruto's Sage Mode. Gai's poor turtle will be smashed.

I say Naruto winning due to having more stamina and chakra left over to last him throughout the fight.

Generally, Naruto can't win in a one on one straight up taijutsu brawl against Gai (unless Naruto is in Sage Mode but that's restricted). Gai going into chakra gates will be problematic for Naruto (if Naruto was just not using Shadow clones).

I say Naruto puffs out 1000 clones (he'd have to balance the Kyuubi's chakra a little in order to have a sufficient amount of chakra to substain them for long periods of time).

Naruto uses his taijutsu and combined powers of the shadow clones to spring whatever attack he sees fit at, or traps he sees fit Gai. Henged Shadow clones and what not. Gai of course will take down the lot of shadow clones and avoid some of their tricks however, with Naruto balanceing his chakra, he can keep makiing more much to Gai's dismay. Naruto eventually catches Gai slipping by drawing him closer to a transformed Shadow clone (rock, or fallen Large Kunai) reveals itself from behind and Rasengan's Gai.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-09-2009, 05:36 PM
Lol Naruto would fuck him easily, i don't even need to explain this.... Naruto summons Fukasaku he summons shima while gai's busy fighting naruto they cast the frog genjutsu GAME OVER.

Well thats not fair which is why I put it as base naruto. I guess I shouldve said no sages lol. And since naruto never actually summoned shima or fukasaku then u cant use that unless there already together like they were in the fight with pain.

Hype and main character luck aside, if naruto cant keep himself hiden and Gai finds him them it would only take on blitz with Gais speed and power. Then again, naruto might get KOed just to have the Kyuubi take over and revive him in which he can go up to KN2 before he loses control so Ill give him that. But In KN2 narutos going to be out in the open and if Gai goes 6agtes not even the KN2 cloak would help that much IMO.

Although naruto would most likly win theres still the chance for Gai to find the real naruto and blitz him.

lamps123
11-10-2009, 03:17 AM
Yall know Gai is even faster than kakashi (by alittle) at base, right. And naruto base speed is slow as piss in comparison so theres always the chance Gai knowing of narutos KB skills will try and blitz naruto and take him out quickly before he can make any KBs or summon.

But if naruto can manage to Create some KBs and hide he can probably win if Gai doesnt catch on to his startegy.

However, If gai realeses 6 gates naruto better create a bunch of bushins to distracts Gai long enough to hide ina hole or something lol. With Gai speed and explosive power at 6gates 100 KBs will be gone in about 4 seconds so it has to be quick or Gai might see him hide and blitz him.

Even at KN2 Gai at 6gates would KO naruto with one combo.

Either naruto beats Gai by using bushins, rasengan and his massive chakra or Gai blitzes naruto.
yeah thank God you are saying things logically before you wont even consider strategy on naruto side.well its true if naruto at base tries to go head on with gated gai,he is surely doomed,but as you said strategy could win it for naruto.

poolangya
11-10-2009, 03:45 AM
like i said, gai still has a chance of winning, 2 in 10, one if he ca gate blitz the real naruto, two if naruto decides to fight head on straight up taijutsu.
base naruto would mean no kyubi, no sage mode. and if you take away all summonings, naruto will be left with kagebunshin no jutsu, rasengan variations, 50% rasenshuriken, henge, and sexy no jutsu. just using kagebunshin no jutsu + sexy no jutsu would be problematic for manly guy. and that rock henge naruto used, pnj or not, naruto can actually use. i'd say technique wise, naruto has most of the advantage.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-10-2009, 04:13 PM
Nah, I said base naruto could use KN1 or 2, but if he does hes no longer going to use strategy. Hes just going to try and win with brute force against a guy that can release enough gates to KO naruto even in KN2 mode.

Vengeance
11-10-2009, 04:18 PM
Base Naruto is on par with Kakashi in the beginning of part 2. Naruto can fight with Gai in if he uses clones to gage Gai's speed & also for diversionary tactics. If Gai happens to tap into gates Naruto could create clones & hide via rock henge. At this point Gai is fucked because he'll be taking himself out. Naruto at this point could simply overwhelm Gai like he did to God Pain. 7-3 advantage Naruto.

Myth
11-10-2009, 04:18 PM
Nah, I said base naruto could use KN1 or 2, but if he does hes no longer going to use strategy. Hes just going to try and win with brute force against a guy that can release enough gates to KO naruto even in KN2 mode.

are you retarded? this is worse then the time you said gated lee is faster then minato...

first off if naruto went into a 2 tailed state gai would be fucked he wouldn't be able to get close without having his fucking head blown off.. not to mention the chakra protect naruto from all attacks nothing gai would do can harm naruto in a tailed state...

or did you forget that not even Kusangai was able to pierce naruto.. the demon foxes cloak protect him from everything WHAT FUCKIGN MANGA HAVE YOU BEEN READING SERIOUSLY. This is one of the dumbest things ever im not even trying to insult you but come the fuck on REALLY KYF REALLY?.

Vengeance
11-10-2009, 04:26 PM
first off if naruto went into a 2 tailed state gai would be fucked he wouldn't be able to get close without having his fucking head blown off.. not to mention the chakra protect naruto from all attacks nothing gai would do can harm naruto in a tailed state...
It's only 2 tails & at this point Naruto is still self-aware on what is going on. It isn't until 3 tails that Naruto starts to lose himself. Really though Naruto doesn't even need tails or sage mode to beat Gai. Even giving Naruto access to K0 is unfair since he could still create massive clones with it. At two tails Gai should be able to at least damage Naruto though he'd burn himself in the process.
or did you forget that not even Kusangai was able to pierce naruto.. the demon foxes cloak protect him from everything WHAT FUCKIGN MANGA HAVE YOU BEEN READING SERIOUSLY. This is one of the dumbest things ever im not even trying to insult you but come the fuck on REALLY KYF REALLY?.
That was at 4 tails myth I doubt 2 tails would grant the same type of defensive capability. Though this fight is stupid Gai is basically a grown up Lee & Naruto has already seen those types of tricks. He wouldn't need tailed states to take down Gai.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-10-2009, 04:28 PM
are you retarded? this is worse then the time you said gated lee is faster then minato...

first off if naruto went into a 2 tailed state gai would be fucked he wouldn't be able to get close without having his fucking head blown off.. not to mention the chakra protect naruto from all attacks nothing gai would do can harm naruto in a tailed state...

or did you forget that not even Kusangai was able to pierce naruto.. the demon foxes cloak protect him from everything WHAT FUCKIGN MANGA HAVE YOU BEEN READING SERIOUSLY. This is one of the dumbest things ever im not even trying to insult you but come the fuck on REALLY KYF REALLY?.

OMFG myth, u r the most rabid fanning SOB Ive ever met!!!

KN2 naruto is just a little less fodder then KN1 that genin sasuke beat with a knife hand to the chest LMAO!! KN2 couldnt even touch kakashi and hes not even as fast as base gai u noob.

Last I checked, 6gates gai blows up the ground just by blitzing with his explosive power so that force into KN2 and KN2 becaomes KOed base naruto on the ground.

R u f-ing retarted (forgive me if u actually r) kusanagi couldnt pierce KN4 where naruto went to a whole other level of power so stop with that crap.

KN2 is nothing specail against strong jounin like kakashi or Gai so just stop with that crap becaue KN2 cloak is crap, the power isnt as much as u make it out to be and its nothing 6gates can pwn in ten second with a combo.

MikeyM1979
11-10-2009, 04:39 PM
Mkay, I has a new fight.

Sasori vs the Sand trio.


Gaara, Temari, and Kankuro all fight as IC as possible. Same goes for Sasori. Gaara is only allowed to use as much sand as he's used during his fight against Lee, or from his gourd, whichever provided him the most. He still has Shukaku and can partially transform. Everyone has access to everything they've shown so far. Sasori knows that Kankuro is a puppeteer, and he knows that Gaara is a jinchuuriki who manipulates sand. The trio know everything about Sasori, thanks to (which I just made up lol) Chiyo informing them. The fight takes place on an open grassy battlefield.

Note: As I said, Gaara is only allowed a limited amount of sand, so no having him make more sand the way he did against Kimimaro. Stats from the latest databook are also to be taken into account.

Myth
11-10-2009, 04:39 PM
Vengeance nah dude the demon foxes cloak forms at the 1st tail member sasuke blasted naruto with Grand Fireball this is what he said.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/231/10/

So yeah the cloak forms right away nothing can hurt naruto at that point... especially not taijutsu lols.. But yeah I know naruto wouldn't need Kyuubi at all just threw the info out there for the guy who fails more then Bush.

So you see if naruto went even 1 tail gai would be fucked..

@fail, nothing happened to kakashi because he had a seal jiraiya made to suppress kyubbi's chakra chakra. if he didn't they'd all be fucked him deidara EVERYONE.

TheSixthHokage
11-10-2009, 04:49 PM
Mkay, I has a new fight.

Sasori vs the Sand trio.


Gaara, Temari, and Kankuro all fight as IC as possible. Same goes for Sasori. Gaara is only allowed to use as much sand as he's used during his fight against Lee, or from his gourd, whichever provided him the most. He still has Shukaku and can partially transform. Everyone has access to everything they've shown so far. Sasori knows that Kankuro is a puppeteer, and he knows that Gaara is a jinchuuriki who manipulates sand. The trio know everything about Sasori, thanks to (which I just made up lol) Chiyo informing them. The fight takes place on an open grassy battlefield.

Note: As I said, Gaara is only allowed a limited amount of sand, so no having him make more sand the way he did against Kimimaro. Stats from the latest databook are also to be taken into account.

As of Part II?

I assume Sasori would win regardless, particularly if he can use the Iron Sand technique of the Third Kazekage. Gaara is powerful sure, but he was taken out by Deidera, 1-on-1, someone who was self-admitted as weaker than Sasori. Kankuro was bitch-slapped by Sasori, not even playing seriously and Temari has Fuuton abilities. Can't see them taking out Sasori. He was badass.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-10-2009, 04:51 PM
[QUOTE]Vengeance nah dude the demon foxes cloak forms at the 1st tail member sasuke blasted naruto with Grand Fireball this is what he said.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/231/10/

Uuum lol, naruto yelled at the fireball and blocked it so what r u talking about cloak?

So yeah the cloak forms right away nothing can hurt naruto at that point... especially not taijutsu lols.. But yeah I know naruto wouldn't need Kyuubi at all just threw the info out there for the guy who fails more then Bush.

Yea because genin sasuke didnt use a bare hand (no chidori) to pierce right through that cloak and KO naruto:rolleyes: I repeat, BAREHANDED!http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/233/02/

So you see if naruto went even 1 tail gai would be fucked..

@fail, nothing happened to kakashi because he had a seal jiraiya made to suppress kyubbi's chakra chakra. if he didn't they'd all be fucked him deidara EVERYONE.

Sure they would in the world where u dwell and only what u believe happened in the manga, but in the real world were kishi made it obvious that naruto until KN4 cant be hurt by taijutsu. Lol, still Oro with his limited strength punched the sh*t out of KN4 and his hand wasnt hurt lolhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/294/09/. Just Imagine if naruto was only @KN2 and Gia 6gates realesed punched him (which is a punch far far more powerful, with rediculous amount of impact compared to the hit that rocked KN4)

Gai @6gates could beat KN2 without a doubt because naruto doesnt have some sheild of chakra like KN4 and naruto was only 1 tail stronger then KN1 that was beat by genin sasuke with his barehand attack. Seriously, 6gates gai packs the walop of raiton armor enhanced raikage lol. But I guess he couldnt beat KN2 either could he lol.

Myth
11-10-2009, 04:55 PM
Uuum lol, naruto yelled at the fireball and blocked it so what r u talking about cloak?Read the text dumb ass sasuke clearly says "the chakra's protecting him". Kishi wrote it don't argue...



Yea because genin sasuke didnt use a bare hand (no chidori) to pierce right through that cloak and KO naruto:rolleyes: I repeat, BAREHANDED!yeah sasuke did that BEFORE naruto went into a tailed state the cloak only comes out in a tailed form...

lol you actually thought you had something there ROFLLMFAOOOOOO.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-10-2009, 05:03 PM
[QUOTE]Read the text dumb ass sasuke clearly says "the chakra's protecting him". Kishi wrote it don't argue...

I know I read the wrong panel. Still, genin fire might not get to naruto in KN1, but sasukes bear hand did lol.

yeah sasuke did that BEFORE naruto went into a tailed state the cloak only comes out in a tailed form...

This tailed form u duncehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/233/02/

Ha haaaaaaa!


lol you actually thought you had something there ROFLLMFAOOOOOO.

What, that manga panel up there that proves ur completly wrong, yea!

MikeyM1979
11-10-2009, 05:03 PM
but he was taken out by Deidera, 1-on-1That's quite true, however, the circumstances were in Deidara's favor, as he threatened to nuke the entire village. I know Deidara still had C4 and C0 in his arsenal, but there IS potential for a rematch between the two to have gone totally different. That win against Gaara was more of a plot win, like Sasuke's "wins" against Itachi and Orochimaru.

someone who was self-admitted as weaker than Sasori.Not everything stated is fact. Believe me, there are statements made in the manga that have been proven to be false, or have had absolutely no backing. Also take into account that Deidara needed Kakashi away from Naruto in order to capture him, so him saying something as silly as Sasori being stronger than Deidara could have been to seperate Kakashi from Naruto. To try and make him concerned about Sakura and Chiyo.

Kankuro was bitch-slapped by Sasori, not even playing seriously and Temari has Fuuton abilities. Can't see them taking out Sasori. He was badass.I think you're underrating Temari. She's a powerful fuuton user, and she should provide great defense and offense against several of Sasori's traps.

Myth
11-10-2009, 05:06 PM
This tailed form u duncehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/233/02/

Lols the tailed form is already gone by then or are you blind? there's nothing surrounding naruto http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/233/08/

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-10-2009, 05:19 PM
Lols the tailed form is already gone by then or are you blind? there's nothing surrounding naruto http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/233/08/

U cant see the cloak because there both surrounded by light lol, but u can clearly see naruto still in KN1 and sasuke still in C2 so quit BSing. Not only that, thats the panel after naruto was hit so he was already defeated lol.

Look here, he has it before hes defeated by that hand strikehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/232/18-19/
One page later, naruto still has it around his body as hes hit with sasuke barehanded strike, no if ands or butshttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/233/02/

Read it in weep!

TheSixthHokage
11-10-2009, 05:19 PM
That's quite true, however, the circumstances were in Deidara's favor, as he threatened to nuke the entire village. I know Deidara still had C4 and C0 in his arsenal, but there IS potential for a rematch between the two to have gone totally different. That win against Gaara was more of a plot win, like Sasuke's "wins" against Itachi and Orochimaru.

Not everything stated is fact. Believe me, there are statements made in the manga that have been proven to be false, or have had absolutely no backing. Also take into account that Deidara needed Kakashi away from Naruto in order to capture him, so him saying something as silly as Sasori being stronger than Deidara could have been to seperate Kakashi from Naruto. To try and make him concerned about Sakura and Chiyo.

I think you're underrating Temari. She's a powerful fuuton user, and she should provide great defense and offense against several of Sasori's traps.

I disagree. Sasuke's win against Orochimaru and Itachi were totally circumstantial, while Deidera's was using a known weakness of Gaara to his advantage, a character flaw if you will. Orochimaru was deathly ill and Itachi never meant to kill Sasuke, huge difference.

Anything said in the manga, unless it is later further explained, should be taken as fact. It's canon as soon as it's published.

I don't think I am, she's a fodder jonin whose name we know. Having said that she is still powerful but we're talking about fighting Deidera, she is as useful as a third nipple.

MikeyM1979
11-10-2009, 05:24 PM
Anything said in the manga, unless it is later further explained, should be taken as fact. It's canon as soon as it's published.

I don't think I am, she's a fodder jonin whose name we know. Having said that she is still powerful but we're talking about fighting Deidera, she is as useful as a third nipple.I get that, however, when it's contradicted, that makes that statement invalid. Actions > words, anyone should know that.

Deidara? She's fighting Sasori. Her fuuton techniques....you know, I really shouldn't even have to explain this. >_>

Vengeance
11-10-2009, 05:24 PM
Mkay, I has a new fight.

Sasori vs the Sand trio.


Gaara, Temari, and Kankuro all fight as IC as possible. Same goes for Sasori. Gaara is only allowed to use as much sand as he's used during his fight against Lee, or from his gourd, whichever provided him the most. He still has Shukaku and can partially transform. Everyone has access to everything they've shown so far. Sasori knows that Kankuro is a puppeteer, and he knows that Gaara is a jinchuuriki who manipulates sand. The trio know everything about Sasori, thanks to (which I just made up lol) Chiyo informing them. The fight takes place on an open grassy battlefield.

Note: As I said, Gaara is only allowed a limited amount of sand, so no having him make more sand the way he did against Kimimaro. Stats from the latest databook are also to be taken into account.
Why not current Gaara who's not allowed to make more sand? Honestly Shukaku isn't even needed here nor is additional information from Chiyo. Kankuro's first encounter would be enough info to just make them aware of who he is. Kankuro also already ransacked Sasori’s goodies when that arc finished so he would ideally have a lot of information on Sasori.

At any rate the sand trio can take this we've already seen Gaara use his sand to block multiple targets when faced against Sasuke Sasori's non-chakra based attacks would be no different. Temari can also blow(no pun intended) away a massive amount of puppets with a single swing of her fan. Honestly speaking there isn't much Sasori would be able to do here unless Kazekage's magnetically controlled sand can pierce Gaara's chakra enriched sand which personally speaking I highly doubt it could. 2-8 advantage sand trio.

Edit: LMAO @ Kankrou being allowed to use his Sasori puppet.

MikeyM1979
11-10-2009, 05:25 PM
I allowed Shukaku because, IIRC, wasn't it him that provided the auto sand defense?

Vengeance
11-10-2009, 05:32 PM
I allowed Shukaku because, IIRC, wasn't it him that provided the auto sand defense?
Gaara was blocking Amaterasu with sand Mikey. During Sasuke's brawl Gaara was protecting himself, Temari, Kankuro, & Darui at the same time. That auto defense isn't from Shukaku in my opinion based on the more recent chapters or at least Gaara retained the ability even after getting Shukaku extracted. At any rate it really shouldn’t matter in this instant as Gaara was still able to protect multiple people with his sand while fighting Sasuke.

MikeyM1979
11-10-2009, 05:35 PM
Gaara was blocking Amaterasu with sand Mikey. During Sasuke's brawl Gaara was protecting himself, Temari, Kankuro, & Darui at the same time.How do you know that was due to an auto sand defense as opposed to Gaara actually having improved his skills in manipulating sand? I'm not going to bother because I'm far too lazy, but, I could have sworn the auto sand defense came from Shukaku. *shrug*

Vengeance
11-10-2009, 05:37 PM
How do you know that was due to an auto sand defense as opposed to Gaara actually having improved his skills in manipulating sand? I'm not going to bother because I'm far too lazy, but, I could have sworn the auto sand defense came from Shukaku. *shrug*
No where is that stated in the manga. What is actually stated it that it's his mother's spirit protecting him. Shukaku was never mentioned at all with the auto defense. From what we saw of Gaara he pretty much retained all his abilities.

Myth
11-10-2009, 05:42 PM
U cant see the cloak because there both surrounded by light lol, but u can clearly see naruto still in KN1 and sasuke still in C2 so quit BSing. Not only that, thats the panel after naruto was hit so he was already defeated lol.

Look here, he has it before hes defeated by that hand strikehttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/232/18-19/
One page later, naruto still has it around his body as hes hit with sasuke barehanded strike, no if ands or butshttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/233/02/

Read it in weep!


I read it and came to the conclusion that you're a dumbass.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/232/18-19/ you see the ears of kyuubi

and now
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/233/02/ no ears... also look at the ball you see naruto's and sasuke's silhouette you can see sasuke's cs hand but naruto's tail is gone so are the ears..

i told you you're an idiot.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-10-2009, 06:44 PM
I read it and came to the conclusion that you're a dumbass.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/232/18-19/ you see the ears of kyuubi

and now
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/233/02/ no ears... also look at the ball you see naruto's and sasuke's silhouette you can see sasuke's cs hand but naruto's tail is gone so are the ears..

i told you you're an idiot.

SIIIGGGHHHH! Dude, u can clearly see the aura still around narutos body in that panel which is what counts because if sasukes barehand can pierce KN1 then 6gates gai can more then just damage KN2.

All ur insults yet ur so completly wrong. Whats next? u gonna call me names because I disagree 2+2 isnt chicken?

The Special One
11-10-2009, 07:37 PM
Here's one!

Asuma vs. Yamato... Though I'm not sure if it was used or, not already. But, since I can't recall and I don't feel like searching hundreds of pages, let's just do it anyway.

I'm torn between those two at the moment. I'll wait until one of you guys respond and I'll see what I think of.

ask me anything
11-10-2009, 07:56 PM
I'd go with Yamato. He has an advantage because he uses 3 elements and can fight at long distances. His wood is good for both defense and offense, and he has excellent tracking skills. Asuma is more of a close range fighter, but his wind knifes are extremely sharp. They alone could kill yamato in 1 hit, and Asuma is very skilled at taijutsu.

It really depends on where they fight. If it in the open then it could go either way. If it's in a forest then yamato would have a huge atvantage. Fighting yamato in the woods is like fighting kisame on water. If yamato immobilizes Asuma with wood jutsu it's all over.

The Special One
11-10-2009, 08:07 PM
I agree Asuma has the advantage from close range. Yamato can use his wood ninjutsu to corner and bind Asuma from long range and then follow up with an offensive.

However, Asuma can also extend the length of of the wind emitting from his chakra knives. Perhaps he could use those extended wind blades to cut through the wood that gets close. Asuma is also proficient in Katon. Perhaps he can torch the wood and set off a chain that burns it down. That would cause Yamato to either cancel is jutsu, or spend extra effort in putting the fire out (might leave an opening).

It is a pretty decent match up. They both have chances to grasp victory.

poolangya
11-10-2009, 08:27 PM
sasori vs sand siblings?

if gaara is nerfed,kankurou is the old kankurou(w/o sasori puppet) and temari is still hot, i'd say sasori wins by a landslide 10-0. but letting gaara use the full potential of his sand would spell trouble to sasori. he can defend against multiple attacks and attack at the same time.temari also has the same ability since she has that fuuton fan of hers. kankurou would fight with puppets. the only edge i see here for sasori in the condition that gaara can fight full power, is his multiple attacks, and the kazekage puppet. his hundred or thousand puppets are not kagebunshins,so when theyre gone,theyre gone.if gaara can manage to defend 360 degrees,they have better chances of winning,but if not,they'll get poisoned for sure and sasori can just buy time. one on one sasori wins against any of them. kankuro is not a factor here in this fight, but teaming gaara and temari would be hard for sasori. i'd say sand siblings 6-4 sasori, close call, but sand siblings has better chances of winning.

asuma vs yamato

asuma has wind + a few fire. purely offensive. yamato has wood, and others but especially wood. most of his skills are for trapping/defensive purposes. asuma would prefer melee combat,and he's quite skilled in straight up taijutsu, plus wind is the sharpest of the chakras ( in slicing/cutting ) which will prove very useful in melee combat. yamato would prefer long range combat using wood to trap asuma. but asuma can cut those trees and branches with his wind infused knife.yamato's only win here is if he is able to immobilize asuma, especially his hand so that even if asuma extends the chakra blades,he won't be able to free himself. asuma will also have a hard time chasing up to yamato even if he cuts all the trees shoved into him because yamato can just make trees sprout again,barricading asuma's advance. i'd say this is a difficult fight to predict, with one chasing while the other falling back. but asuma has the advantage because his weapons are sharper. asuma 6-4 yamato.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-10-2009, 08:46 PM
Sasori vs Gaara, kankuro and temari?

I think team wind can win this IMO. Sasori was beaten because there was a puppet master there to help just sakura whos not all that strong at all so with kankuro (not as masterful as chioy, but good enough) there to reveal weakness to puppets and puppet attack and defense strategies along with gaara brute force of ninjutsu and temaris fuuton (and weasle summon that would cut puppet army to shreads all by itself) I think team wind can win. And since kankuros already been poisoned they would have an antidote, not that gaara would need one with his sand sheild and armor.

Asuma vs yamato?

Im sorry, but yamaytos only manga feats are getting pwned by base sasuke without oro hax, creating wood, making a hill and then a waterfall. Meanwhile Asuma has fuuton chakra blades that can go though anything almost, but definatly anything yamato has. Asuma has fire style, hes actaully almost as fast as kakashi, very strong and can use the replacement jutsu as masterfully as kakashi too.

Now, at a long distance yamato has the advantage, but hes shown no kinda of extraordinary speed (maybe alittle faster then base naruto) so hes not going to be able to keep that distance if asuma choses to blitz in with his speed after distracting yamato by either throwing one of his fuuton infued knives at yamato or purposly falling into one of yamatos jutsu paths so he can use his replacement jutsu. Either way I think asuma can take yamato because the guy has no real manga feats to possibly say otherwise.

TheSixthHokage
11-10-2009, 09:03 PM
Yamato would smash Asuma, though I am basing my assumption on a few points:

Point #1 - Yamato was the best ANBU of everyone who served under the Third
Point #2 - he wields Wood Element Ninjutsu, something that is one-in-a-million
Point #3 - he has made entire waterfalls and buildings from nothingness, he has insane chakra capacity
Point #4 - against Sasuke, he said he was going to get serious, letting us know that he was kidding around at first (thus letting us know he is far above a normal Jonin)
Point #5 - he hasn't fought yet, he is mostly likely Konoha's Kisaame

And lastly, Asuma was killed by Hidan with relative ease. He was a Jonin with no real ability that made him seem especially dangerous. Chakra-imbued chakra knives, mid-level Katon ninjutsu and that's about it. I have to assume Yamato could at least stand his ground against the Sarutobi. I just don't see Yamato being less powerful than Part I Kakashi and Part I Kakashi could rape Asuma.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-10-2009, 09:09 PM
Yamato would smash Asuma, though I am basing my assumption on a few points:

Point #1 - Yamato was the best ANBU of everyone who served under the Third
Point #2 - he wields Wood Element Ninjutsu, something that is one-in-a-million
Point #3 - he has made entire waterfalls and buildings from nothingness, he has insane chakra capacity
Point #4 - against Sasuke, he said he was going to get serious, letting us know that he was kidding around at first (thus letting us know he is far above a normal Jonin)
Point #5 - he hasn't fought yet, he is mostly likely Konoha's Kisaame

And lastly, Asuma was killed by Hidan with relative ease. He was a Jonin with no real ability that made him seem especially dangerous. Chakra-imbued chakra knives, mid-level Katon ninjutsu and that's about it. I have to assume Yamato could at least stand his ground against the Sarutobi. I just don't see Yamato being less powerful than Part I Kakashi and Part I Kakashi could rape Asuma.

In all fairness, Asuma was kicking hidans ass and protecting shika and the other two useless chuunins. All while asuma hadnt even figured out hidan secret yet. Then when he did and decapitated hidan, kakuzu stepped in ambushed asuma with pretty left him easy picken for hidan.

Although Asuma died, he still has more manga feats then yamato. The only thing yamato has shown hes able to do is use wood to bind and restrain, not to defeat anyone. And yamatos shown no genjutsu or taijutsu proficientcy so hows he going to beat asuma by just restraining him wiht wood?

TheSixthHokage
11-10-2009, 09:13 PM
In all fairness, Asuma was kicking hidans ass and protecting shika and the other two useless chuunins. All while asuma hadnt even figured out hidan secret yet. Then when he did and decapitated hidan, kakuzu stepped in ambushed asuma with pretty left him easy picken for hidan.

Although Asuma died, he still has more manga feats then yamato. The only thing yamato has shown hes able to do is use wood to bind and restrain, not to defeat anyone. And yamatos shown no genjutsu or taijutsu proficientcy so hows he going to beat asuma by just restraining him wiht wood?

Don't underestimate the most manly of all ninjutsus! Penis No Jutsu!

Seriously though, Yamato will probably be the Kisame of Konoha for the simple fact he hasn't been shown. His ability to even "sort" of control the Kyuubi in Naruto already speaks to how badass he is.

As for Asuma, sure he did a decent job, but was this any more impressive than Kakashi against Kakuzu? Not really. At least Kakashi had MS to fall back on, Asuma was essentially keeping Hidan from killing the three Chunins, but that's about it. The decapitation was with considerable aid from Shikamaru, so that's not really fair to bring in, that's two against one.

I somewhat think the best ANBU operative could handle the #2 Jonin, at least in terms of a stalemate... (though I am sure we'll see Yamato be insane quite soon).

The Special One
11-10-2009, 09:16 PM
Im sorry, but yamaytos only manga feats are getting pwned by base sasuke without oro hax, creating wood, making a hill and then a waterfall

I don't know, I kinda think Yamato kicks ass. Sasuke got the upperhand in that first squabble, yes however, Yamato did manage to catch Sasuke off guard and force him into taunting from further range. Yamato had also said that he wasn't serious because Sasuke was Naruto and Sakura's friend.

Of course now Sasuke would defeat Yamato no ands ifs or butts, but it's fact that Yamato said he would have gotten serious if he really intended on needing greater force in restraining Sasuke six months prior.

hes actaully almost as fast as kakashi

Yamato and Asuma are both move at reasonablly exceptable speeds. They aren't lightning fast, but they can get around like the best of them.

so hes not going to be able to keep that distance if asuma choses to blitz in with his speed after distracting yamato

They are both on the same speed level to our knowledge. Their foot speed won't be much of a factor in this battle. Yamato can also use earth elemental ninjutsu for defensive purposes. You must have forgotten that he can raise the earth to create a wall and stall Asuma a bit.

Yamato also has shown to be able to use a torrent of water, as in when he mixed it with Naruto's Fuuton: Rasengan to create a kind of hurricane. Yamato isn't lack luster to the point in which Asuma can just walk right over him to say the least.

edit: Yamato be insane quite soon

He's also fairly young, only a decade over the rookies. I say he has more room to grow than either of the Jounin squad leaders, or other jounin besides Neji in Konoha.

Vengeance
11-10-2009, 09:20 PM
It's funny how many people think Sasori stands a chance in hell against the sand trio. Simply put this match up is heavily stacked in the trio's favor.

1. Sasori's projectiles aren't chakra based which would be required in order to actually pierce Gaara's sand shields.

2. Gaara's sand withstood the heat of Amaterasu so Sasori's little flamethrower would be no different.

3. Temari was able to utterly pwned Tenten during the chunin exams & made all of her attacks useless 73-19 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/73/19/). Note how there are weapons surrounding Temari from every direction yet she was able to block them all 73-20 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/73/20/). Just to show that Temari would be able to block attacks from multiple angels relatively easily.

4. Dai Kamaitachi can cut through solid trees while Sasori's puppets are made of wood 213-11 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/213/11/) & 213-12 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/213/12/). You do the math here.

5. Not only that but Temari has gotten stronger since then. Note Okamaitachi 464-13 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/464/13/). This isn't even factoring in her summoning ability.

6. This just takes the cake because Kankuro is there. Not only does he know who Sasori is but he's a puppet master as well who ransacked Sasori's puppets & now uses Sasori himself as a puppet.

Honestly speaking based on ability set Temari can arguably handle Sasori in a 1 vs 1 (yeah I said it). Add in Gaara & Kankuro & it's no contest.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-10-2009, 10:07 PM
[QUOTE]I don't know, I kinda think Yamato kicks ass. Sasuke got the upperhand in that first squabble, yes however, Yamato did manage to catch Sasuke off guard and force him into taunting from further range. Yamato had also said that he wasn't serious because Sasuke was Naruto and Sakura's friend.

The problem was sasuke wasnt all that serious either though lol. Sasukes trying to hide his true strength so he could fool Oro and ambush him later so I wouldnt say sasuke was actually trying very hard either.

Of course now Sasuke would defeat Yamato no ands ifs or butts, but it's fact that Yamato said he would have gotten serious if he really intended on needing greater force in restraining Sasuke six months prior.

Yea, but yamato failed to realise sasuke wasnt even trying either. If sasuke had been serious about killing yamato, naruto, sakura and sai then they would be dead lol. I mean one little blitz with his chidori lance and everyones cut in half. But in all fairness saying yamato looks weak because he was owned by sasuke is like saying deidara was weak as well.

Yamato and Asuma are both move at reasonablly exceptable speeds. They aren't lightning fast, but they can get around like the best of them.

Im sorry, but I cant recall yamato ever moving with any kind of speed. Im going to need an example here because I dont remember.

They are both on the same speed level to our knowledge. Their foot speed won't be much of a factor in this battle. Yamato can also use earth elemental ninjutsu for defensive purposes. You must have forgotten that he can raise the earth to create a wall and stall Asuma a bit.

I agree yamato can use his hill creation for defense against asuma.

Yamato also has shown to be able to use a torrent of water, as in when he mixed it with Naruto's Fuuton: Rasengan to create a kind of hurricane. Yamato isn't lack luster to the point in which Asuma can just walk right over him to say the least.

Thats true, so asumas fire can be put out. But such a feat gives asuma time to sneak into close range using a clone or his chakra blade as a decoy.

He's also fairly young, only a decade over the rookies. I say he has more room to grow than either of the Jounin squad leaders, or other jounin besides Neji in Konoha.

Thats true, but Assumtions aside and jutsu manga feats, asuma should beat yamato.

Hell, Neji has more manga feats then yamato that are combat applicable. EIther kishi needs to kill of yamato or give him a fight to show what he can do.


How about (crazy but plausible IMO) Shikamaru vs Tsunade (there fighting on the land where shika fought hidan so shika knows the terrain, ect)?

Vengeance
11-10-2009, 10:17 PM
Asuma's mid range consist of katon & throwing his chakra blade. Yamato uses suiton which pretty much takes the katon out of the equation. Asuma's only advantage if any would be close range however Yamato can always use doton style traveling to quickly evade Asuma's rush. Also roots can be used to trip Asuma without him noticing since Asuma doesn't have special eyes that can see roots growing from underground. Yamato has a clear chakra advantage based on manga feats. Winding Fissure can be used to swallow Asuma & crush him using the earth itself & there isn't much if anything Asuma would be able to do to counter this. Both fighters in question have good reputations so that can't really be bought into question here. 3-7 advantage Yamato.

PS: Asuma is not the #2 jounin not bya long shot. There are quite a few jounin in Konoha that would be able to handle him in a fight.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-10-2009, 10:22 PM
Asuma's mid range consist of katon & throwing his chakra blade. Yamato uses suiton which pretty much takes the katon out of the equation. Asuma's only advantage if any would be close range however Yamato can always use doton style traveling to quickly evade Asuma's rush. Also roots can be used to trip Asuma without him noticing since Asuma doesn't have special eyes that can see roots growing from underground. Yamato has a clear chakra advantage based on manga feats. Winding Fissure can be used to swallow Asuma & crush him using the earth itself & there isn't much if anything Asuma would be able to do to counter this. Both fighters in question have good reputations so that can't really be bought into question here. 3-7 advantage Yamato.

Yamatos never use donton to travel in ground like Oro. And winding fisure? Whats that?

Vengeance
11-10-2009, 10:29 PM
Yamatos never use donton to travel in ground like Oro. And winding fisure? Whats that?
Actually he has 456-12 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/456/12/).

Winding Fissure 396-09 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/396/09/) & 396-10 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/396/10/)

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-10-2009, 10:45 PM
Actually he has 456-12 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/456/12/).

Winding Fissure 396-09 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/396/09/) & 396-10 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/396/10/)

Ok, I forgot about those, but how is being able to raise the ground then splitting it going to help yamato against asuma?

Asumas too fast for yamato to just raise a hill or split it, then hide in the hill side. Yamatos lack of speed and having to build chakra then squat down to the ground makes him a sitting duck against asumas above average jounin speed.

IDK, yamato just has no offensive manga feats to actually beat asuma in a fight.

TheSixthHokage
11-10-2009, 10:48 PM
It's funny how many people think Sasori stands a chance in hell against the sand trio. Simply put this match up is heavily stacked in the trio's favor.

1. Sasori's projectiles aren't chakra based which would be required in order to actually pierce Gaara's sand shields.

2. Gaara's sand withstood the heat of Amaterasu so Sasori's little flamethrower would be no different.

3. Temari was able to utterly pwned Tenten during the chunin exams & made all of her attacks useless 73-19 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/73/19/). Note how there are weapons surrounding Temari from every direction yet she was able to block them all 73-20 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/73/20/). Just to show that Temari would be able to block attacks from multiple angels relatively easily.

4. Dai Kamaitachi can cut through solid trees while Sasori's puppets are made of wood 213-11 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/213/11/) & 213-12 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/213/12/). You do the math here.

5. Not only that but Temari has gotten stronger since then. Note Okamaitachi 464-13 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/464/13/). This isn't even factoring in her summoning ability.

6. This just takes the cake because Kankuro is there. Not only does he know who Sasori is but he's a puppet master as well who ransacked Sasori's puppets & now uses Sasori himself as a puppet.

Honestly speaking based on ability set Temari can arguably handle Sasori in a 1 vs 1 (yeah I said it). Add in Gaara & Kankuro & it's no contest.

You convinced me, my friend. I overemphasized Sasori for sure, but I still doubt Temari could defeat Sasori one-on-one, regardless of growth. He's S-class, she's B-Cup.

The Special One
11-10-2009, 10:51 PM
The problem was sasuke wasnt all that serious either though lol. Sasukes trying to hide his true strength so he could fool Oro and ambush him later so I wouldnt say sasuke was actually trying very hard either.

The point I'm saying is that you can't base Yamato's skill level based off that little squabble, that's all.

Yea, but yamato failed to realise sasuke wasnt even trying either. If sasuke had been serious about killing yamato, naruto, sakura and sai then they would be dead lol. I mean one little blitz with his chidori lance and everyones cut in half. But in all fairness saying yamato looks weak because he was owned by sasuke is like saying deidara was weak as well.

Though you make it seem as though Sasuke's Chidori chakra sword is unavoidable. Orochimaru was in his death bed when he got hit. But let's not make this a Sasuke vs. anyone at the moment.

Im sorry, but I cant recall yamato ever moving with any kind of speed. Im going to need an example here because I dont remember.

I'm just saying Yamato can still move it in battle (his movements are acceptable for a high leveled shinobi who needs to get from point A to point B). The manga didn't put much emphasis on Asuma's speed as well. They are both capable of moving fast, but not having Sasuke, or Kakashi speeds to our knoweldge.

But such a feat gives asuma time to sneak into close range using a clone or his chakra blade as a decoy.

Not saying Asuma wouldn't take this opportunity to rethink his game plan, but Yamato's Earth defense was a method to stop Asuma if he happened to get so close to Yamato that it puts Yamato into the red. Since the wall of earth doesn't move up that slowly, it's length and width should provide ample time to stop Asuma in time. Of course, Asuma will try to go around it however, by that time Yamato could also be planning his next tactic counter. Yamato wouldn't spend all his energies creating a wall that exceeded it's purpose if his unguarded side is exposed for too long. He'd get on his guard again and prepare a counter.

Hell, Neji has more manga feats then yamato that are combat applicable. EIther kishi needs to kill of yamato or give him a fight to show what he can do.

Yamato would so flattened Neji. I do agree that Yamato needs a major fight. But he's very useful to Naruto. Saving him from dying by Kakuzu, and is a means to help Naruto handle the Kyuubi's chakra.

How about (crazy but plausible IMO) Shikamaru vs Tsunade (there fighting on the land where shika fought hidan so shika knows the terrain, ect)?

That's an awkward match no doubt about it. Tsunade wins because Shikamaru isn't much of a one-on-one kind of guy. He's more of a master supplementary key in team battles. He can lead a good team to victory against a potentially dangerous opponent with his analytical skills. He's one of the best team players, but Shikamaru isn't much of a brawler or, a shake em, take em kind a guy.

Vengeance
11-10-2009, 10:53 PM
Ok, I forgot about those, but how is being able to raise the ground then splitting it going to help yamato against asuma?

Asumas too fast for yamato to just raise a hill or split it, then hide in the hill side. Yamatos lack of speed and having to build chakra then squat down to the ground makes him a sitting duck against asumas above average jounin speed.

IDK, yamato just has no offensive manga feats to actually beat asuma in a fight.
Use the jutsu in a different mannor then just simply raising it to avoid Amaterasu. The point is splitting the ground itself to trap Asuma underground followed by quickly closing it. There are also other examples of Yamato creating sink holes if you need them. Also using his wood to trip up & or restrain Asuma would allow time to have Asuma fall into a pit created by Yamato so he could kill him. This isn't even factoring in offensive wood which can come from multiple directions from both above & below ground.

FYI Asuma isn't even shown to be all that fast to begin with. He couldn't fight off Hidan with assistance from Shikamaru & he didn't do much of anything to Kisame. Where as Yamato is seen shooting off a massive stockpile of wood against Naruto, Kakazu, & Madara. Yamato is seen with massive chakra feets as well as the largest scales of doton manipulation in the manga. You like to mention Sasuke's speed Yamato actually kept up with Sasuke's movements he simply blocked incorrectly because of Sasuke's raiton.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-10-2009, 11:14 PM
[QUOTE]The point I'm saying is that you can't base Yamato's skill level based off that little squabble, that's all.

Agreed!

Though you make it seem as though Sasuke's Chidori chakra sword is unavoidable. Orochimaru was in his death bed when he got hit. But let's not make this a Sasuke vs. anyone at the moment.

I didnt mean sasuke chidori sword, but his lance that can cut as well. Sasuke with his speed couldve just waited for everyone to stand up then used his lance and shusin to cleave them all in half if he was actaully trying to kill. ANyways, I agree, lets not turn this into anything about sasuke.

I'm just saying Yamato can still move it in battle (his movements are acceptable for a high leveled shinobi who needs to get from point A to point B). The manga didn't put much emphasis on Asuma's speed as well. They are both capable of moving fast, but not having Sasuke, or Kakashi speeds to our knoweldge.

I was judging asumas speed by how kakashi faired against hidan which was about the same exept kakashi knew hidan secret so he didnt fight in close unlike asuma. And by the way asuma handed those sound jounin there ass with great speed and use of the replacement jutsu.


Not saying Asuma wouldn't take this opportunity to rethink his game plan, but Yamato's Earth defense was a method to stop Asuma if he happened to get so close to Yamato that it puts Yamato into the red. Since the wall of earth doesn't move up that slowly, it's length and width should provide ample time to stop Asuma in time. Of course, Asuma will try to go around it however, by that time Yamato could also be planning his next tactic counter. Yamato wouldn't spend all his energies creating a wall that exceeded it's purpose if his unguarded side is exposed for too long. He'd get on his guard again and prepare a counter.

Thats alittle much for yamato IMO. I mean since weve never seen him fight seriously and even use strategy we cant really believe hes any smarter then the average jounin without just assuming.

Yamato would so flattened Neji. I do agree that Yamato needs a major fight. But he's very useful to Naruto. Saving him from dying by Kakuzu, and is a means to help Naruto handle the Kyuubi's chakra.

IMO Neji stands a better chanc against Asuma then yamato due to his lack of manga feats.

That's an awkward match no doubt about it. Tsunade wins because Shikamaru isn't much of a one-on-one kind of guy. He's more of a master supplementary key in team battles. He can lead a good team to victory against a potentially dangerous opponent with his analytical skills. He's one of the best team players, but Shikamaru isn't much of a brawler or, a shake em, take em kind a guy.

Tsunade doesnt have huge chakra and shika was able to hold hidan and kakuzu easily so I think with the right terrain shika could actaully come up with a strategy to beat tsunade.

[QUOTE]Use the jutsu in a different mannor then just simply raising it to avoid Amaterasu. The point is splitting the ground itself to trap Asuma underground followed by quickly closing it. There are also other examples of Yamato creating sink holes if you need them. Also using his wood to trip up & or restrain Asuma would allow time to have Asuma fall into a pit created by Yamato so he could kill him. This isn't even factoring in offensive wood which can come from multiple directions from both above & below ground.

U cant really say yamato can use winding fisure as a earht trap to crush someone uless he actaully uses it in the manga for that purpose or speaks of it. And although the tree roots could slow down asuma I think asumas use of his fuuton chakra blades would just cut right through those things before they could restrain him.

Also, asuma showed the ability to increase his fuuton blade at will which asuma could use to fool yamato. For instance asuma comes into close range and swings at yamatos head with his chakra blade at normal size on purpose to give him a false sense of security. Then asuma just steps in the next time and Quadrupples the length of the blade mortaly wounding yamato like this http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/325/12-13/

Also, asumas kanton attack isnt some normal kanton attack. Asuma breaths out some smoke that surround the opponent, then asuma ignites the smoke with his teeth casuing an explosion.http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/323/14/
Andhttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/323/14/

FYI Asuma isn't even shown to be all that fast to begin with. He couldn't fight off Hidan with assistance from Shikamaru & he didn't do much of anything to Kisame. Where as Yamato is seen shooting off a massive stockpile of wood against Kakazu & Madara. Yamato is seen with massive chakra feets as well as the largest scales of doton manipulation in the manga. You like to mention Sasuke's speed Yamato actually kept up with Sasuke's movements he simply blocked incorrectly because of Sasuke's raiton.

Asuma kept up with hidan just as well as kakashi did so that says enough about speed.

And all yamato did was step forward while sasuke swung his sword. There was no shushin involved, just a swing of the sword that was intended for saukra.

The Special One
11-10-2009, 11:30 PM
I was judging asumas speed by how kakashi faired against hidan which was about the same exept kakashi knew hidan secret so he didnt fight in close unlike asuma. And by the way asuma handed those sound jounin there ass with great speed and use of the replacement jutsu.

Though, it's hard to judge off that in my opinion without some concrete evidence. I can link Yamato to rushing off (for whatever reason) and say he's as fast as Kakashi. It wouldn't be true of course, but I think that's what you are doing with Asuma's speed. But those Jounin were fodder. Any high-profiled jounin in Konoha worth their grain of salt would have beat the bricks off all 9 of em.

IMO Neji stands a better chanc against Asuma then yamato due to his lack of manga feats.

Neji got canned, and was never brought up again until within the past 20, or so chapters. Neji's presence in part II has been pratically nonexistant.

Tsunade doesnt have huge chakra and shika was able to hold hidan and kakuzu easily so I think with the right terrain shika could actaully come up with a strategy to beat tsunade.

Though Shikamaru had the element of suprise on his side, as his platoon tracked Hidan and Kakuzu, and then Shikamaru executed. If Shikamaru and Tsunade were fighting straight up, she'd know what to expect. Tsunade knows of Asuma's chakra knives, she was the Hokage after all. She also know Shikamaru's tactics. He can try to out think her however, without assistance, Shikamaru won't be able to hack it because his body doesn't move all that well against a powerful shinobi (in comparison to Sasuke, Naruto, and Kakashi's reflexes).

Tsunade would break Shikamaru. He's smater, but he can't out think her on her terms.

TheSixthHokage
11-10-2009, 11:37 PM
Anyone else notice how Myth was temp banned for 7 days because of that contest?

Anyways, how about Shikamaru and Lee versus Kiba and Shino?

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-10-2009, 11:50 PM
[QUOTE]Though, it's hard to judge off that in my opinion without some concrete evidence. I can link Yamato to rushing off (for whatever reason) and say he's as fast as Kakashi. It wouldn't be true of course, but I think that's what you are doing with Asuma's speed. But those Jounin were fodder. Any high-profiled jounin in Konoha worth their grain of salt would have beat the bricks off all 9 of em.

Well, I used the same method to measure SM narutos speed and it seems pretty accurate IMO, but I see what ya mean. With so little manga time I have no other way to try and gauge asumas speed so since Hidan was able to keep up with kakashi and compete with him at his speed then it should mean that asumas speed is at least close considering he did the same as kakashi. I would try and determine yamatos speed, but the guy hasnt actaully fought anyone so its just frustrating.

Neji got canned, and was never brought up again until within the past 20, or so chapters. Neji's presence in part II has been pratically nonexistant.

I know right! Nejis the Hyuugas itachi yet kishi does nothing with him:(

Though Shikamaru had the element of suprise on his side, as his platoon tracked Hidan and Kakuzu, and then Shikamaru executed. If Shikamaru and Tsunade were fighting straight up, she'd know what to expect. Tsunade knows of Asuma's chakra knives, she was the Hokage after all. She also know Shikamaru's tactics. He can try to out think her however, without assistance, Shikamaru won't be able to hack it because his body doesn't move all that well against a power shinobi (in comparison to Sasuke, Naruto, and Kakashi's reflexes).

Yea, Im sure tsunade knows about shikas shadow skills, but she just has basic intellect to use to try and beat shika. Shika knows about tsunade as well and since tsunades average speed hes not going to be blitzed so I think he stands a chance in the nara forest where he beat Hidan because he knows that land and would know how to use it to beat tsunade.

Tsunade would break Shikamaru. He's smater, but he can't out think her on her terms.

IMO, once shikamaru catches her and he will because that guys a master with those damn shadows. All shika has to do is have tsnade KO herself with her awesome strength, have her stab herself with a kunai then wait for her to bleed out, or just use shadow strangle to choke her out.

IDK, I just think shika could actually come up with a strategy to beat tsunade if hes on terrain he knows well.

The Special One
11-11-2009, 12:14 AM
Anyone else notice how Myth was temp banned for 7 days because of that contest?

.lol I saw dat. I bet he's steaming as fuck. Welp, noobs can post peacefully for a week without having him lash out on them.

Anyways, how about Shikamaru and Lee versus Kiba and Shino?

As much as I like Shino, I think Shikamaru is a better tactician when he is in a team. Therefore, I think he can potentially develop better moves for his teammate than Shino can. Shino is about major tactical planning however, I don't know if he's much of a team planner.

Though, Shino and Kiba have been on the same squad for three years, so they know how each other's style works and how to compliment each other's strengths and weaknesses. I'm leaning more towards Kiba and Shino however, I'll wait and see what you guys have to say before I start to pick a favorite.

Yea, Im sure tsunade knows about shikas shadow skills, but she just has basic intellect to use to try and beat shika. Shika knows about tsunade as well and since tsunades average speed hes not going to be blitzed so I think he stands a chance in the nara forest where he beat Hidan because he knows that land and would know how to use it to beat tsunade.

I think she's above average in terms of intellect. She's no Kakashi, or Shikamaru, but she has a good brain on her. I'm just saying Tsunade knows more about these one one one fights than Shikamaru does. Shikamaru has never been a kind of one on one kind a guy, he suits best as the team's coordinator and attack planner. Tsunade isn't all that fast, but her reflex timing is better than Shikamaru's because Tsunade actually gets in and mixes it up when she has to and is used to avoiding and doding while Shikamaru has been sitting back informing his teammates and preparing Kage Mane from long ranges to commpliment his teammates fighting strategies for the most part.

Besides, if Tsunade doesn't like the terrain, she can make her own.lol What will Shikamaru do if Tsunade decides to swing trees, or toss them at him? He'll try to avoid however, he wouldn't have time to ready his Kage Mane, so Tsunade would take this opportunity down Shikamaru. (Every kind of terrian seems bad in my opinion. The only kind of environment he'd have the advantage on would be a thin strip of land where Tsunade doesn't have enough movement (and at the bottom was an endless pit). If she attempts jump over him, he'd catch her shadow while she's in mid-air.

Vengeance
11-11-2009, 12:29 AM
Anyone else notice how Myth was temp banned for 7 days because of that contest?

Anyways, how about Shikamaru and Lee versus Kiba and Shino?
lol just noticed that.

Regardless of battle field Kiba & Shino take this. If in a forest area Kiba can smell them while Shino could bug them. In a wide open area Shino can takeout both in seconds while Kiba plays bodyguard just in case Lee actually manages to get close enough to Shino in the first place. There is no amount of speed that can avoid insect globe.

poolangya
11-11-2009, 12:34 AM
shikamaru vs tsunade?

shikamaru can restrict tsunade's moves. and then what? tsunade is strong, and strong people were shown to be able to break shadow manipulation/bind(at least in the anime). Kage mane would be his only chance of defeating tsunade,but that would also seem less likely because of tsunade's strength.and with shikamaru's chakra level, i doubt he could come up with a plan before he loses because of chakra loss. Tsunade is a 1 punch kO monster. she can make a terrain favorable to her if she wishes. she has summoning and regeneration tech. she can heal. all advantages goes to tsunade in this fight. tsunade 9-1 shikamaru. i gave 1 for shikamaru because his mind works better than tsunade, somehow maybe he can find a way to defeat her. tsunade wins this.

but,give shikamaru a partner, whoever it is, even tenten, and against tsunade they will have better chances of winning than her.

shino + kiba vs shikamaru + lee

anybody partnered with shikamaru is a formidable force, especially against taijutsu spammers who relies on on motion of their muscles. but this fight involves shino, who even if unable to move, can command his insects to do the dirty job. if they can take out shino before he can make full use of his insects,shika and lee can probably win. but kiba and akamaru is there to provide full scale attacks which would lead to a defensive shikamaru and lee trying to go head on. it is likely that shikamaru can restrain both shino and kiba n akamaru with shadow bind, or maybe even kage mane,but shino will not be rendered useless. close fight with certain advantages to both sides on different circumstances, but shino is the key to winning or losing the fight here. i give it shino+kiba 6-4 shikamaru+lee.

Ngro_Da_HRO
11-11-2009, 03:12 AM
That's sucks how Myth was banned. I was banned too it wasn't for 7 days it was a month or 2 XD Don't talk trash to the mods not the smartest thing i ever did XD

The Special One
11-11-2009, 12:03 PM
^Nah, it was a contest. Who ever won that said contest can ban anyone (well not admins because they can always find a way to get back on) for a week, even mods.

How about this one?

Kimimaro vs. Kakuzu.

I wouldn't underestimate Kimimaro, his stats for a 15 year old were pretty filled out. He also would have defeated Gaara if he wasn't on his last legs, so let's lift his illness shall we?

After all, this was the body Orochimaru preferred prior to Sasuke's strength growing in great magnitude over the three years of training.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-11-2009, 04:48 PM
Shino and Kiba have no manga feats since part. And shikamaru took down an akatsuki member on his own. Lee? He doesnt have much manga feats either exept being pretty fast and use of gates.

So, shika sets a trap and catches shino, kiba and akamaru with chakra blade kage mane. Then Lee can just KO Immobilized opponents lol. Not much of a fight IMO.

ask me anything
11-11-2009, 08:30 PM
Shino and Kiba have no manga feats since part. And shikamaru took down an akatsuki member on his own. Lee? He doesnt have much manga feats either except being pretty fast and use of gates.

So, shika sets a trap and catches shino, kiba and akamaru with chakra blade kage mane. Then Lee can just KO Immobilized opponents lol. Not much of a fight IMO.

Against most of the other konoha 9 shika would win, but against shino I just don't see it happening. What good is a trap going to do if shino sends out his bugs to scout the area first. He'd find the trap and prepare a counter. Shino may not be as smart as shika but he's still pretty smart. Back in the chuunin exam he planned several steps ahead to defeat that sound gennin. IMO shino>shika, but Lee>kiba. So it would be kinda close. The only possible advantage lee might have over shino would be if shino attacked him with his chakra absorbing bugs. Since lee only uses Taijutsu chakra is useless to him anyway. Maybe lee could catch shino off gaurd that way and KO shino before he could react. I doubt it though. Shino could just as easily uses poisonous bugs on lee and KO him. So I would judge the fight Shino/kiba 7-3 shika/lee.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-11-2009, 08:54 PM
Against most of the other konoha 9 shika would win, but against shino I just don't see it happening. What good is a trap going to do if shino sends out his bugs to scout the area first. He'd find the trap and prepare a counter. Shino may not be as smart as shika but he's still pretty smart. Back in the chuunin exam he planned several steps ahead to defeat that sound gennin. IMO shino>shika, but Lee>kiba. So it would be kinda close. The only possible advantage lee might have over shino would be if shino attacked him with his chakra absorbing bugs. Since lee only uses Taijutsu chakra is useless to him anyway. Maybe lee could catch shino off gaurd that way and KO shino before he could react. I doubt it though. Shino could just as easily uses poisonous bugs on lee and KO him. So I would judge the fight Shino/kiba 7-3 shika/lee.

Why does everyone think shinos so strong? The dude has one manga feat which is the failure of catching tobi with his bugs, thats all. Meanwhile shikamarus competing with akatsuki using his abilites and even beat hidan on his own. Shino whos just going to attack shika with bugs isnt going to beat shika or lee.

All shika has to do is capture someone with his shadow and its over unless they have bijuu sized chakra lol because shika help both hidan and kakuzu at the same time. SO how is shino going to possibly beat shika with just a bug attack? Dont act like shika doesnt know shino uses bugs and hes doesnt have a defense for them lol.

poolangya
11-12-2009, 10:00 AM
Why does everyone think shinos so strong? The dude has one manga feat which is the failure of catching tobi with his bugs, thats all. Meanwhile shikamarus competing with akatsuki using his abilites and even beat hidan on his own. Shino whos just going to attack shika with bugs isnt going to beat shika or lee.

All shika has to do is capture someone with his shadow and its over unless they have bijuu sized chakra lol because shika help both hidan and kakuzu at the same time. SO how is shino going to possibly beat shika with just a bug attack? Dont act like shika doesnt know shino uses bugs and hes doesnt have a defense for them lol.

why do i think shino is so strong? if u r blind you wouldn't realize the potential of shino and his bug skills. if i base my assumptions on who would win on manga feats alone, shino has no way to beat shikamaru. being able to take down an akatsuki of Hidan's caliber is really something. but remember he did that thru preparation. In this fight,we assumed they are just pitted with each other on a whim, no preparation time was given for shikamaru to analyze the surroundings and renovate/redecorate it to his advantage thru traps.

shino's bug jutsu is something that made him my top 3 strongest among the rookies. behind naruto and sasuke. and he also thinks. he's not the type who has a lot of battle skills and no battle wits. you tell us not to act as if shikamaru doesn't know shino's bugs and therefore has no defense against it, so tell us what you think his defense would be against the bugs? kunai tags? bombs? if there is prep time then maybe shika can make arrangements against those bombs, but there was no stipulation of prep time. So let's say shikamaru manages to shadow bind shino, shino's bugs doesn't deactivate coz he is immobile. his bugs respond to what he think/say therefore no hand seals required. as for shino's defense against shikamaru's shadow jutsu, his bugs is his perfect counter for that.

mewmew
11-12-2009, 10:19 AM
shino's potential was explored in the Naruto: Bonds movie. Too bad, its not canon, but if those destructo bugs that sank the enemy ships are also available in the manga, he'll be one bad ass mass killer.

Shikamaru is potential kage material as said many times if he really worked hard for it but i doubt with shikamaru's current skills, he can stop all bugs. therefore, he is at a disadvantage in this match up. If he can stay away from the chakra eating bugs long enough to devise a full blown strategy, Shino's got better chance in this match up but with shika's genius, anything's possible.

Vengeance
11-12-2009, 10:54 AM
Shino has multiple fights & has never lost a battle. He's very smart second only to shika in regards to the other rookies. Shino's bugs can move independently. Shino's bugs also eat chakra while Shikamaru's shadow is a jutsu that requires chakra. This means shikamaru's jutsu is compleatly fucking useless here. Chakra is basically life energy one can not live without chakra. This means shino can take down lee by eating away his chakra. Shino's bug have been shown to be able to take down an opponent in seconds. Insect globe can not be dodged with just speed this is stated in the manga. Kiba is actually really fast & with the help of Akimaru can fight with Lee if he doesn't jump to gates right away.

poolangya
11-12-2009, 11:00 AM
the only win situation i can supply shikamaru is if immediately at the start of the battle, he was able to bind both kiba, akamaru and shino, then Lee opens gate, gate blitzes shino into a KO. and that is if shino's bugs are too lazy to move on their own. because unlike shikamaru's jutsu which restrains ONLY the opponent (choking aside), shino's bugs can restrain and eat up chakra for a sure win, shikamaru+lee will lose this fight.

ask me anything
11-12-2009, 01:53 PM
Why does everyone think shinos so strong? The dude has one manga feat which is the failure of catching tobi with his bugs, thats all. Meanwhile shikamarus competing with akatsuki using his abilites and even beat hidan on his own. Shino whos just going to attack shika with bugs isnt going to beat shika or lee.

because, Shino is strong. I guarantee you if shino had fought against hidan, kakauza, or anyone else shika has ever fought he would have won too.


All shika has to do is capture someone with his shadow and its over unless they have bijuu sized chakra lol because shika help both hidan and kakuzu at the same time. SO how is shino going to possibly beat shika with just a bug attack?

So how is shika going to trap 1000 bugs with his shadow bind jutsu? It's not like he has byakugan so he can see every single bug:rolleyes:. His shadow is useless against massive numbers like that. Their will be a lot of bugs that get through and then it's all over for shika. Besides shino can control his bugs from far away, so shika's shadow will never reach him.


Dont act like shika doesnt know shino uses bugs and hes doesnt have a defense for them lol.

Don't act like shino doesn't know shika uses shadow manipulation and doesn't have a defense for them. lol

ask me anything
11-12-2009, 08:49 PM
lol chapter 471 was great!!!. So here's a fight based on that. enjoy:D lolz

http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy205/ask-me-anything/vs.jpg?t=1258076907

Vengeance
11-12-2009, 10:57 PM
We don't speak of one piece in this section gtfo with that bullshit.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-12-2009, 11:35 PM
Sai vs kabuto? (In the forrest and its at night)?

poolangya
11-12-2009, 11:39 PM
Sai vs Kabuto?

Kabuto wins. at night it is hard to draw. Sai won't be able to perform his jutsus well. and even if it is daytime, we're talking about kabuto here, who is a medic nin and was capable of standing toe to toe with kakashi in taijutsu. sai has very few chances of winning a match against kabuto,but since you even nerfed him much more by making the fight occur at night time, sai doesn't stand a chance. sai 0-10 kabuto

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-13-2009, 12:12 AM
Sai vs Kabuto?

Kabuto wins. at night it is hard to draw. Sai won't be able to perform his jutsus well. and even if it is daytime, we're talking about kabuto here, who is a medic nin and was capable of standing toe to toe with kakashi in taijutsu. sai has very few chances of winning a match against kabuto,but since you even nerfed him much more by making the fight occur at night time, sai doesn't stand a chance. sai 0-10 kabuto

Uuuum, Kabuto merely escaped from kakashi without his SG uncovered and kakashi had no Idea that kabuto was a high level jounin when he'd failed to become chuunin 7 times. Kakashi would kick kabutos ass in a real fight in a minute falt lol.

Also, Sais really slick like kakashi with ink bushins and replacements. Plus sais pretty quick, can use his ink ninjutsu to bind/capture with sankes or to poison, can use his Ink hawk to ride and attack from above deidara style using ink animals or tools like explosive kunai, shurikan ect and sais also talented in taijutsu with his stubby sword.

So sais no slotch and since kabuto can only use taijutsu with his chakra scaple and regerate to some exstent when hes injured hes not really going to do that well against Sai who fights at a distance using his ink animals, while flying around on his ink hawk. Also, even if kabuto managed to close the distance with sai, sais a great taijutsu user who fights like Anbu kakashi using bushins, replacements and a sword.

Needless to say a chakra scaple isnt going to be effective when its just hitting bushins and replacements.

Sai 7-3 kabuto!

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-16-2009, 05:15 PM
Naruto vs Killer Bee!!!! In Konaha crater I guess.


[QUOTE]Ignoring the other stuff as I said I wouldn't respond to it. Just wanted to clarify what I ment in the first section.

Itachi is stronger than all of them yes. However not to a point where they couldn't put up a decent fight depending on the situation. Orochimaru needs to not get greedy or monolog while since he already knows of sharingan hax from personal experience while Jiraiya could put up a decent fight if he's not gen haxed from the very start.

Well to be fair itachi just comes out genjutsu, bushins, taijutsu, ect a-blazing! Which is why so many of his opponents dont last very long even at sannin level. And IMO, even if Jman managed not to get raped by genjutsu and get into HM. Itachi would just use MS and end the fight so not to prolong because of his sickness.

In regards to Kirabi Jiraiya & Orochimaru both know Fuuinjutsu which directly relate to manipulating a Bijuu seal. Because of this Kirabi is simply on their level but could actually lose if he fought ether of them.

That would only make them the same level in seal skills not shinobi skills. The thing is KB is Jman with full control of his bijuus power making genjutsu, taijutsu and almost any ninjutsu ineffective. Base KB is sannin level, but once the tails comes on he reaches a whole new one.

Sasuke is around Itachi's level in ability but would most likely lose to Orochimaru & Jiraiya based on his inexperience & overconfident persona. Meaning he's merely at their level.

Sasukes around itachis level in MS skill (exept sasanoo), but as a shinobi in whole.

And sasuke already raped Oro in his own deminsion with base SG genjuts which was supposed to be Immpossible so CS sasuke couldve beaten Oro without a doubt. And MS sasuke could now beat Jman since he can spam sasanoo and not die. Or, just use amaterasu or tsukuyomi which Jman has no defense for since he has no replacements or bijuu.

Naruto on the other hand would rape Jiraiya & Orochimaru in combat at this point based on his fighting style as would Pain. Simply put Jiraiya & Orochimaru stand no chance in hell against Naruto or Pain in a 1 vs 1 or in Pain's case a 6 vs 1.

Narutos lack of versatility makes him unlikly to beat Oro with the same tricks Jman whos even more skilled couldnt beat him with. Im not saying Oro could beat naruto, just Oro would most likly retreat.

And Jman!!! Jmans naruto with a everlasting SM, more skills, far greater use of strategy/tactics and can use his seals skills to unbalance narutos chakra like Oro did with one hit (five element seal) meaning no SM.

Like I said before, narutos not versatile. He just keeps increasing his power, strength, the same jutsu and stamina. No speed training, no seal training, no extra element training, no real genjutsu training, ect. Narutos too limited right now to be able to flat out beat shinobi like Oro and Jman with just everlasting power.

Yeah I did & it's partly the reason why I stopped & didn't bring it up again. That & it was late. Hidan pwnz Kisame btw :p.

Come on now, Hidan has sloppy taijutsu that couldnt even hit shika who has crappy taijutsu. Kisame without his sword would sh*t on Hidan.

poolangya
11-16-2009, 07:52 PM
sai's advantage is he is a long range fighter, while kabuto relies too much on his tai to fight as he has shown through most of his fights. but you stipulated the fight to be at night time, and technically,drawing on canvas using ink under just the moon as illumination is really difficult,putting sai at an easy disadvantage.

Killerbee vs Naruto?

no restrictions? at konoha crater? for sure konoha crater would become bigger and deeper. KB is a swordsman,though he uses shortswords, while naruto uses only kunais. KB can infuse Lightning element to his swords which can make its piercing ability greater than that of a wind infused weapon. Naruto hasn't shown much of his knowledge of element infusion,only once i think during his wind manipulation inquiry with Asuma. But it is safe to assume he also knows how to infuse based on his accomplishment with FRS which is basically harder than simple nature manipulation. So naruto can counter the lightning infused short swords of Kisame with his wind infused kunai. note at the bolded part above, kisame's lightning blades are greater only in piercing, but cutting,slicing,and slashing? Naruto's Wind infused kunais will be more effective against KB's blades. unless KB uses his blades as a spear or do fencing attacks. Weapons taijutsu i give to Naruto.

KB is fast, and especially faster when in full control of Hachibi. He hit sasuke, with his attacks, but i believe sasuke was not 100 % then, and was surprised a little with the sudden attack.however Kisame who i think is not a fast one, was able to block most of his attacks, except for the full powered lariat which was the result of KB's overwhelming force. most of KB's techs consists of his blade attacks except one clothesline attack he calls lariat and i believe that is a linear move. hand to hand combat, Naruto has Kagebunshin combos which can act as shields also, he has close combat rasengan variations, and in SM, he has the Frog Fu. Naruto is maybe slower to equal in speed with KB in base mode, but in sage mode? Naruto definitely tops KB in speed. @KYF i don't buy your argument that Naruto's blitz with Robo-Pain is just a "jump from 5 panels ago,luckily landing on top of RObo-Pain". you had weak arguments there. Hand to hand combat, Naruto has more technical advantage against KB. KB's only saving grace would be he can use version 2 of Hachibi,which i believe is very powerful, to be able to hit Kisame hard enuf that Kisame was shown with his ribcage. But in Sage Mode, naruto was able to pound Robo pain breaking him apart, he was able to 1 punch KO chakra sucker Pain, and also catch a Monstrous Rhino summon by the horns, and throw it hundreds of meters above the ground. Hand to hand taijutsu, i still give to Naruto.

KB has another chance, fight Naruto in full bijuu form. the big octobull hachibi. i can't remember if the speed that KB has displayed is also in effect when he is in full form. but surely he has more destructive power than normal, and he also got that bijuu blast to level battlefields. but he has a disadvantage here, he is a very big target for the Fuuton Rasenshuriken of Naruto. If KB is not fast enuf to avoid it and get miles away from it,surely he would get hit, as we all know, Naruto can control the FRS to explode even if there is no contact. and unlike Amaterasu which isn't an insta kill ( you will burn first before you die,first the skin,then the flesh,if u still alive then the internal organs,then bones ), FRS attacks on a molecular level, meaning, you get hit. surely you die. and we still haven't seen what a KSM Naruto would be able to do. He somehow was able to merge it back when he met Nagato.surely Naruto would win in high level power exchange.

KB has no chance as he is now against Naruto. but if he is to be able to get what the spoilers say, then he can give Naruto a run for his money. unless that "thing" goes Ho-mode again and attaches itself to the yummier chakra host.

Naruto 8-2 Killerbee. Naruto wins this.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-16-2009, 08:30 PM
[QUOTE]Killerbee vs Naruto?

no restrictions? at konoha crater? for sure konoha crater would become bigger and deeper. KB is a swordsman,though he uses shortswords, while naruto uses only kunais. KB can infuse Lightning element to his swords which can make its piercing ability greater than that of a wind infused weapon. Naruto hasn't shown much of his knowledge of element infusion,only once i think during his wind manipulation inquiry with Asuma. But it is safe to assume he also knows how to infuse based on his accomplishment with FRS which is basically harder than simple nature manipulation. So naruto can counter the lightning infused short swords of Kisame with his wind infused kunai. note at the bolded part above, kisame's lightning blades are greater only in piercing, but cutting,slicing,and slashing? Naruto's Wind infused kunais will be more effective against KB's blades. unless KB uses his blades as a spear or do fencing attacks. Weapons taijutsu i give to Naruto.

U gave weapons taijutsu to naruto!!! Are u serious? KBs a master swordsman who can use his sword skills even in tailed mode. Meanwhile narutos tool skills r average at best and his skill with wind infusion was only done with a chakra blade not a kunai so that doesnt count.

KB would pwn naruto in a taijutsu weapons fight!!

KB is fast, and especially faster when in full control of Hachibi. He hit sasuke, with his attacks, but i believe sasuke was not 100 % then, and was surprised a little with the sudden attack.however Kisame who i think is not a fast one, was able to block most of his attacks, except for the full powered lariat which was the result of KB's overwhelming force. most of KB's techs consists of his blade attacks except one clothesline attack he calls lariat and i believe that is a linear move. hand to hand combat, Naruto has Kagebunshin combos which can act as shields also, he has close combat rasengan variations, and in SM, he has the Frog Fu. Naruto is maybe slower to equal in speed with KB in base mode, but in sage mode? Naruto definitely tops KB in speed. @KYF i don't buy your argument that Naruto's blitz with Robo-Pain is just a "jump from 5 panels ago,luckily landing on top of RObo-Pain".

LMAO! Ur saying narutos base speed is close to equal to KBs base speed is rediculous. Like the difference sasuke and base naruto lol. This is getting wierd!
And SM narutos no faster the kakashi judging by his performance against deva realm. No I dont buy ur arguements will change that because in five panels and two little speeches kakashi couldve covered the same distance as well.
I mean what about naruto not being able to just blitz any of the realms in SM isnt proof enough?
And since ur denying narutos luck when he arrived the second deva was powerless Im not sure this is going to get anywhere.

you had weak arguments there.

Sure because the fact that naruto in SM wasnt any faster then any of the other realms isnt proof enough lol.

Hand to hand combat, Naruto has more technical advantage against KB. KB's only saving grace would be he can use version 2 of Hachibi,which i believe is very powerful, to be able to hit Kisame hard enuf that Kisame was shown with his ribcage. But in Sage Mode, naruto was able to pound Robo pain breaking him apart, he was able to 1 punch KO chakra sucker Pain, and also catch a Monstrous Rhino summon by the horns, and throw it hundreds of meters above the ground. Hand to hand taijutsu, i still give to Naruto.

Naruto needed an ambush rasengan attack to do what he did to demon realm and HG realm was weak against physical attacks. Throwing a rhino wont help him against KB.

The advantage SM naruto will have is his NE barrier which wont KO someone as strong as KB. SM naruto will have the advantage against base KB, but once KB goes tailed mode KB has the advantage.

KB has another chance, fight Naruto in full bijuu form. the big octobull hachibi. i can't remember if the speed that KB has displayed is also in effect when he is in full form. but surely he has more destructive power than normal, and he also got that bijuu blast to level battlefields. but he has a disadvantage here, he is a very big target for the Fuuton Rasenshuriken of Naruto. If KB is not fast enuf to avoid it and get miles away from it,surely he would get hit, as we all know, Naruto can control the FRS to explode even if there is no contact. and unlike Amaterasu which isn't an insta kill ( you will burn first before you die,first the skin,then the flesh,if u still alive then the internal organs,then bones ), FRS attacks on a molecular level, meaning, you get hit. surely you die. and we still haven't seen what a KSM Naruto would be able to do. He somehow was able to merge it back when he met Nagato.surely Naruto would win in high level power exchange.

FRS wont cut the 8tails in half, maybe gash him, but hachibi could fart and cancel it out hes so powerful.
And last I checked naruto wont use the original fuuton rasengan because it could kill him too.

Plain and simple SM naruto would be oblitereated by HachibiKB!! KB just in 3tail mode would be tough enough for SM naruto to fight much less 8tail human version.

KB has no chance as he is now against Naruto. but if he is to be able to get what the spoilers say, then he can give Naruto a run for his money. unless that "thing" goes Ho-mode again and attaches itself to the yummier chakra host.

Are u serious? Other then KB in base naruto even in SM wont stand a chance! Narutos too slow and actaully too weak to beat tailed form KB who has a cloak that can protect him against narutos attacks. Seriously, hows naruto going to even compete against a guy blitzing around him with a acid cloak that will stop anything naruto can throw at it and KB can use his sword attacks in tailed mode too so if a clothsline doesnt get him then one of the swords will.

Naruto 8-2 Killerbee. Naruto wins this.

In base mode, Yea. But once in tailed form its 8-2 KB over naruto.

poolangya
11-16-2009, 09:14 PM
U gave weapons taijutsu to naruto!!! Are u serious? KBs a master swordsman who can use his sword skills even in tailed mode. Meanwhile narutos tool skills r average at best and his skill with wind infusion was only done with a chakra blade not a kunai so that doesnt count.

KB would pwn naruto in a taijutsu weapons fight!!


ok it was presumtuous to say naruto can wield an infused weapon. i forgot that it was a chakra weapon he used before. and since it is not canon the naruto knows how to infuse with normal weapons or objects, naruto loses the taijutsu fight.



LMAO! Ur saying narutos base speed is close to equal to KBs base speed is rediculous. Like the difference sasuke and base naruto lol. This is getting wierd!
And SM narutos no faster the kakashi judging by his performance against deva realm. No I dont buy ur arguements will change that because in five panels and two little speeches kakashi couldve covered the same distance as well.
I mean what about naruto not being able to just blitz any of the realms in SM isnt proof enough?
And since ur denying narutos luck when he arrived the second deva was powerless Im not sure this is going to get anywhere.


i am not denying deva's regenerating state during naruto's arrival, i accepted that as a pnj of some sort to give naruto an early advantage. but during his arrival, there are 6 bodies active, and we all know that what 1 see the others see. naruto's arrival was too grand not to notice and be ignored by the other realms. so how do you think naruto was able to jump 5 panels before and luckily land on top of one without being able to avoid? shows naruto has speed at SM. i said base naruto has at the most the same speed as base KB but most probably lower,but in SM, he tops KB. but i forgot that debating naruto's speed with you is pointless.



Sure because the fact that naruto in SM wasnt any faster then any of the other realms isnt proof enough lol.


yes not enuf proof,but Killerbee being able to hurt Kisame who has no speed feat is not proof also that he is faster than Naruto.


Naruto needed an ambush rasengan attack to do what he did to demon realm and HG realm was weak against physical attacks. Throwing a rhino wont help him against KB.

The advantage SM naruto will have is his NE barrier which wont KO someone as strong as KB. SM naruto will have the advantage against base KB, but once KB goes tailed mode KB has the advantage.


that is what gives naruto an advantage, he is very smart during fights as we;ve seen recently. and if throwing a rhino won't help against KB, you are just overlooking the fact that he was able to throw a freakin rhino in the air like it was just a piece of notebook.

i don't see the advantage of tailed mode KB if SM Naruto has the NE barrier. it is a protection for Naruto,and gives Naruto more reach against KB in hand to hand tai.



FRS wont cut the 8tails in half, maybe gash him, but hachibi could fart and cancel it out hes so powerful.
And last I checked naruto wont use the original fuuton rasengan because it could kill him too.

Plain and simple SM naruto would be oblitereated by HachibiKB!! KB just in 3tail mode would be tough enough for SM naruto to fight much less 8tail human version.


An attack on a molecular level against a protective bijuu coating? hmm i find it amusing if the KBs bijuu coat actually protects him against FRS. and Naruto doesn't need to use the original FRS because it was only 50% complete.he was able to complete it and throw it. why use the 50% one then?

saying 3tail hachibi would obliterate SM naruto is too much underestimation of Naruto imo. try again.


Are u serious? Other then KB in base naruto even in SM wont stand a chance! Narutos too slow and actaully too weak to beat tailed form KB who has a cloak that can protect him against narutos attacks. Seriously, hows naruto going to even compete against a guy blitzing around him with a acid cloak that will stop anything naruto can throw at it and KB can use his sword attacks in tailed mode too so if a clothsline doesnt get him then one of the swords will.


Naruto has the NE protection against KBs attacks also,unless you forget. Naruto has Kagebunshin which u easily rule out. and he has henge, he henge'd into rocks remember? and he can throw out tons of Kagebunshins even if KB tries to blitz every one, until Naruto can find an opening.
.

In base mode, Yea. But once in tailed form its 8-2 KB over naruto.

i still stick to my judgement. Naruto 8-2 Killerbee.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-16-2009, 09:34 PM
[QUOTE=Konnaha_yellow_flash;1769108]

[QUOTE]ok it was presumtuous to say naruto can wield an infused weapon. i forgot that it was a chakra weapon he used before. and since it is not canon the naruto knows how to infuse with normal weapons or objects, naruto loses the taijutsu fight.

OK, cool.

i am not denying deva's regenerating state during naruto's arrival, i accepted that as a pnj of some sort to give naruto an early advantage. but during his arrival, there are 6 bodies active, and we all know that what 1 see the others see. naruto's arrival was too grand not to notice and be ignored by the other realms. so how do you think naruto was able to jump 5 panels before and luckily land on top of one without being able to avoid? shows naruto has speed at SM. i said base naruto has at the most the same speed as base KB but most probably lower,but in SM, he tops KB. but i forgot that debating naruto's speed with you is pointless.

Ur forgeting it still took naruto 5panels to reach tsunade in time. And since demon was already in full motion so seeing it or not he wouldnt be able to defend himself. And the fact that pain was not at all Impressed with narutos ambush on demon says it wasnt special at all.

When debating narutos speed in SM everyone always brings up the demon realm attack, but ignore the fact that SM naruto was unable to out manuever any of the other realms using speed despite the fact the realms are all no faster (if even that) then kakashi.

And KB at base should be about as fast as kakashi/SM naruto, but once hes in tailed form his speed sky rockets far above narutos speed.

yes not enuf proof,but Killerbee being able to hurt Kisame who has no speed feat is not proof also that he is faster than Naruto.

Yea, but the fact that only sasuke and the raikage were the only two who were able to deflect KB in tailed form and both just happen to be the fastest characters in the manga currently so that says enough.

More proof is kakashi with his speed couldnt even catch itachis movements when they fought and sasukes just as fast as itachi so do the math.

that is what gives naruto an advantage, he is very smart during fights as we;ve seen recently. and if throwing a rhino won't help against KB, you are just overlooking the fact that he was able to throw a freakin rhino in the air like it was just a piece of notebook.

Naruto has basic strategy/tactics, nothing special. And KBs not a giant slow rhino, hes a very fast jinchurrici that is capable of power levels that make SM look genin.

i don't see the advantage of tailed mode KB if SM Naruto has the NE barrier. it is a protection for Naruto,and gives Naruto more reach against KB in hand to hand tai.

NE is used offensivly, not defensivly. Narutos body is more durable, but that wont help against raiton swords and 3tailed super charged clothslines of acid chakra.

Come on now, SM naruto cant compete with KB in tailed form at his current level. Narutos too slow and too weak (unbelieveably lol). Rasengan wont penatrate the tailed cloak, FRS wont catch KB who moves too fast and with only 2 KBs narutos not going to last long.


An attack on a molecular level against a protective bijuu coating? hmm i find it amusing if the KBs bijuu coat actually protects him against FRS. and Naruto doesn't need to use the original FRS because it was only 50% complete.he was able to complete it and throw it. why use the 50% one then?

saying 3tail hachibi would obliterate SM naruto is too much underestimation of Naruto imo. try again.

WHat do u mean underestimation? Kbs a freaking monster of speed, power and strength beyond even SM naruto.

Naruto has the NE protection against KBs attacks also,unless you forget. Naruto has Kagebunshin which u easily rule out. and he has henge, he henge'd into rocks remember? and he can throw out tons of Kagebunshins even if KB tries to blitz every one, until Naruto can find an opening..

2 KBs in SM wont help, NE is only used for taijutsu as I said and naruto magicly manifesting already hendged KBs isnt skill, its pure PNJ.

Find an opening? KBs in a Impenatrable cloak to any of narutos attacks other then the FTS probably and thats too slow to catch him.


i still stick to my judgement. Naruto 8-2 Killerbee.

At base, but tailed mode it switches lol.

gokugohan
11-17-2009, 03:55 AM
Itachi vs Killerbee ??

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-17-2009, 04:53 PM
Itachi vs Killerbee ??

The biggest difference between itachi and sasuke is itachis use of bushins which sasuke needs terribly lol. Anyways, using a bushin itachi could just use one to supress the hachibis chakra while the other genjutsu rapes (might take tsukuyomi).

Vengeance
11-17-2009, 05:02 PM
The biggest difference between itachi and sasuke is itachis use of bushins which sasuke needs terribly lol. Anyways, using a bushin itachi could just use one to supress the hachibis chakra while the other genjutsu rapes (might take tsukuyomi).
Stop smoking crack!!! That tactic fails on so many levels I can't even begin to give a serious response to this shit. Itachi may or may not be able to beat Kirabi however it wouldn't go down like that at all!

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-17-2009, 05:12 PM
Stop smoking crack!!! That tactic fails on so many levels I can't even begin to give a serious response to this shit. Itachi may or may not be able to beat Kirabi however it wouldn't go down like that at all!

Without KB being able to tap into the Hachibis chakra to break out of genjutsux or to use to fight with KBs not going to win, simple as that.

Please explain how that fails? Itachi always genjutsu rapes his opponents from the get go and itachis not a noob at fighting jinchurrici so hes going to know about the use of the bijuu to break genjutsus.

How about instead of criticizing my post u explain why that wouldnt work???

TheSixthHokage
11-17-2009, 07:50 PM
KYF, I know it's hard to acknowledge as the ultimate fanboy of the Uchihas, but genjutsu is not a tactical-nuke of pwnage, alright? Against Kirabi, Itachi's genjutsu would be beyond useless. It would be like giving an anorexic Oslen twin another side of ribs. The Eight-Tails can infuse Kirabi with chakra at ANY point, making it a ninjutsu and taijutsu fight.

Itachi's weakening body and complete reliance on Amaterasu in this context really speaks against him winning... I am not confident enough to say KB would win, but I am certain enough to say Itachi would die as likely as KB from exertion.

By the way, people please refrain from comparing Itachi or Sasuke to anyone. I know that's a hard request to follow, but no matter whom you place them against, KYF will fan-boy it until you start hating those characters.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-17-2009, 08:38 PM
KYF, I know it's hard to acknowledge as the ultimate fanboy of the Uchihas, but genjutsu is not a tactical-nuke of pwnage, alright? Against Kirabi, Itachi's genjutsu would be beyond useless. It would be like giving an anorexic Oslen twin another side of ribs. The Eight-Tails can infuse Kirabi with chakra at ANY point, making it a ninjutsu and taijutsu fight.

Itachi's weakening body and complete reliance on Amaterasu in this context really speaks against him winning... I am not confident enough to say KB would win, but I am certain enough to say Itachi would die as likely as KB from exertion.

By the way, people please refrain from comparing Itachi or Sasuke to anyone. I know that's a hard request to follow, but no matter whom you place them against, KYF will fan-boy it until you start hating those characters.

Translation=B-O-O-H-O-O! My favorite character is a two trick pony lacking versatility which would allow him to compete with shinobi like KB and itachi lol.

See now, clearly ur too infused with sage sausage to realise what I already said which is itachi can use a clone or himself to supress the hachibis chakra not allowing him to use it. And since the DB states the SG can surpress any bijuu then its canons!!!!

And since KB cant use his bijuus power then itachi can genjutsu rape all he wants because KB showed no gen defense other than his bijuus assistance so Ha Haaaaaaa!

Whats next, ur going to just use pointless analogies to try and proves canon facts wrong LMFAO! Wiat u just did that lol.

Its too bad I dont fan so hard that when my favorite character cant win I just bitch, piss, moan and throw out insults like a pathetic child to relieve the frustration lol.

The Special One
11-17-2009, 09:22 PM
itachi can use a clone or himself to supress the hachibis chakra not allowing him to use it.

I don't know, a Mangekyou Genjutsu did nothing to hold Killer Bee back.

And since the DB states the SG can surpress any bijuu then its canons!!!!

That's against a Bijuu however, hosts are a little different. Sasuke was able to suppress the Kyuubi's chakra however, Naruto didn't resist, because he wasn't going to use it anyway.

And Killer Bee is a skilled hosts, and he said a person who can control their Bijuu can break out of any genjutsu. Since the way to breaking a genjutsu would be disrupting one's chakra channel by overflowing it with someone elses chakra, a Bijuu's chakra, if controlled, can be used to shatter the genjutsu.

Obviously normal people can't breakout of Mangekyou Genjutsu however, a Bijuu's chakra is 100s of times stronger than a normal person's, so it's logical to assume if the host is skilled enough to summon the chakra himself from the Bijuu, he can break out of any suppression method the sharingan places over the host.

From what I understand, the sharingan's genjutsu is used to force the Beast into submission however, Killer Bee can use Hachibi's chakra even if he doesn't ask. So, he doesn't really need Hachibi's assistance to borrow its chakra.

TheSixthHokage
11-17-2009, 10:08 PM
^ What he said. You severely overestimate the power of genjutsu, KYF. Using a genjutsu against a target, i.e. a Bijuu or a shinobi, is different than a Jinchuuriki, a fusion of TWO beings. It is little different form having another teammate on the sidelines, ready to give a chakra boost.

Myth
11-17-2009, 10:49 PM
Idk the argument but Genjutsu unless its frog on a jinchuriki who has full control of his powers..

But itachi's sharingan was better then sasuke's and he was more skilled and smarter and not cocky who can use kage bushinn that explode so he'd last way longer then sasuke..

would he win i doubt it if he gets caught with a clothesline he's fucked if he lives long enough to use susanoo he's good.. but he'd lose after tsukuyomi cause he'd think he won and bee would pop out to tear his shit apart.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-17-2009, 10:58 PM
[QUOTE]I don't know, a Mangekyou Genjutsu did nothing to hold Killer Bee back.

Sasuke put just KB in tsukuyomi, not the hachibi as well to keep him from helping KB or vica versa.


That's against a Bijuu however, hosts are a little different. Sasuke was able to suppress the Kyuubi's chakra however, Naruto didn't resist, because he wasn't going to use it anyway.

Sasuke supress the kyuubi chakra witout much effort anyways, but itachis even more skilled with his SG since madara trained him.

And Killer Bee is a skilled hosts, and he said a person who can control their Bijuu can break out of any genjutsu. Since the way to breaking a genjutsu would be disrupting one's chakra channel by overflowing it with someone elses chakra, a Bijuu's chakra, if controlled, can be used to shatter the genjutsu.

True, but if bijuu control is taken away by force then how does it matter? The very power KB wishes to use can just be surpressed by use of the SG.

Obviously normal people can't breakout of Mangekyou Genjutsu however, a Bijuu's chakra is 100s of times stronger than a normal person's, so it's logical to assume if the host is skilled enough to summon the chakra himself from the Bijuu, he can break out of any suppression method the sharingan places over the host.

KB cant summon chakra from the hachibi if itachis controling it using the SG. The only way KB can get chakra from the hachibi is if hes willing to give some up, but thats immpossible if itachis controling the hachibi keeping him from sharing his power with KB.

Ur forgeting it wasnt only the power of the hachibi, but the hachibi inserting the power and consciously assisting like how other shinobi snap people out of genjutsu. So, getting pissed or some bijuu power summoning of will if possible while the hachibis under control of the SG, isnt going to make a difference if the hachibi isnt going to assit and snap KB out of the genjutsu.

From what I understand, the sharingan's genjutsu is used to force the Beast into submission however, Killer Bee can use Hachibi's chakra even if he doesn't ask. So, he doesn't really need Hachibi's assistance to borrow its chakra.

Uuum, KB and his bijuu are friends so he can get chakra anytime unless asking or by getting really pissed like naruto (emotion trigger). But, like I keep saying KB cant get power and assistance for the asking from the hachibi when itachis controling him and KB didnt show any ability to summon his bijuus power at will while in genjutsu, just by the hachibi offering and snapping KB out. So without the hachibis help KBs F*cked!!

The Special One
11-17-2009, 11:54 PM
Sasuke put just KB in tsukuyomi, not the hachibi as well to keep him from helping KB or vica versa.

Killer Bee can control his Bijuu more than Itachi can. Killer Bee can summon his Bijuu's power to aide him even if his Bijuu is suppressed. Tell me how a Tsukuyomi is going to cause long term effects on a Bijuu? It's not human, it can't freakin die from a genjutsu.

Sasuke supress the kyuubi chakra witout much effort anyways, but itachis even more skilled with his SG since madara trained him.

Though Naruto didn't resist either. Naruto was trained to demand the Kyuubi's chakra to a degree.

True, but if bijuu control is taken away by force then how does it matter? The very power KB wishes to use can just be surpressed by use of the SG.

I would think a master host (Killer Bee is the finest) has much more control over the large mass of chakra that he has trained to use as a weapon.

The only way KB can get chakra from the hachibi is if hes willing to give some up, but thats immpossible if itachis controling the hachibi keeping him from sharing his power with KB.

Uuum, KB and his bijuu are friends so he can get chakra anytime unless asking or by getting really pissed like naruto (emotion trigger). But, like I keep saying KB cant get power and assistance for the asking from the hachibi when itachis controling him and KB didnt show any ability to summon his bijuus power at will while in genjutsu, just by the hachibi offering and snapping KB out. So without the hachibis help KBs F*cked!!

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-419/page017.html

This shatters your statements above. It takes tremendous skill and training to be able to control a Bijuu's chakra. And the Hachibi asked Killer Bee "why he brought him forth", this hints that Killer Bee was conciously manipulating and using the Hachibi's chakra and Beast Mode when the Hachibi's conciousness was somewhere else.

And the point for Naruto's training under Jiraiya was so he could use the Kyuubi's chakra at anytime. True, anger is the key however, Naruto was trained to be able to use it at anytime. Of course he isn't that far along in controlling the Kyuubi's chakra however, it is truth that a hosts own chakra is used to manipulated their Bijuu's chakra.

Myth
11-18-2009, 12:01 AM
Itachi can't control bijju or jinchuriki lols please lets not state bullshit... Kirabi has total control of his bijju he can willingly take its power thats what it means to have control, he asks him for a hand because he's being nice and treats his demon counterpart with respect, just a show of thanks for his help.

but make no mistake its been stated way back in part 1 once you can control your bijju you can take the power willingly.

Edit: TSO beat me to it

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-18-2009, 12:07 AM
[QUOTE]Killer Bee can control his Bijuu more than Itachi can. Killer Bee can summon his Bijuu's power to aide him even if his Bijuu is suppressed. Tell me how a Tsukuyomi is going to cause long term effects on a Bijuu? It's not human, it can't freakin die from a genjutsu.

KB doesnt control his bijuu he has a partnership with him. And if itachi takes control the hachibi with the SG with genjutsu and keep him from assisting KB then KBs not going to get out of genjutsu.

I know its not human lol. Itachi can just hypnotise the hachibi till KBs beaten.

Though Naruto didn't resist either. Naruto was trained to demand the Kyuubi's chakra to a degree.

The kyuubi agreed to share some of his chakra for his bravery.

I would think a master host (Killer Bee is the finest) has much more control over the large mass of chakra that he has trained to use as a weapon.

Again, KB doesnt take the chakra and even if he did, its because the hachibi allows it which would be taken away by the SG.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-419/page017.html

This shatters your statements above. It takes tremendous skill and training to be able to control a Bijuu's chakra. And the Hachibi asked Killer Bee "why he brought him forth", this hints that Killer Bee was conciously manipulating and using the Hachibi's chakra and Beast Mode when the Hachibi's conciousness was somewhere else.

Do what??? In the sentence before he said from summoning him meaning he had get assistance not do it on his own.

And the point for Naruto's training under Jiraiya was so he could use the Kyuubi's chakra at anytime. True, anger is the key however, Naruto was trained to be able to use it at anytime. Of course he isn't that far along in controlling the Kyuubi's chakra however, it is truth that a hosts own chakra is used to manipulated their Bijuu's chakra.

OK.

Here KB said himself that he can break out of any illusion because his Bijuu, not the power, the bijuu is there to snap him out.http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-413/page014.html

So, as Ive been saying, take away the assistance to snap KB out then KB doesnt snap out!!! SG can just control the hachibi with genjutsu and keep him from helping.


@Myth:

Stick that^^ in ur pipe and smoke it!!! KB can take all the power he needs if even possible, but its the hachibis conscious assistance to disturb KBs chakra is the only way KB can be sanpped out os itachi can just control the hachibi with genjutsu and keep KB from getting assistance lol.

Myth
11-18-2009, 12:10 AM
Lol the only bijju sharingan can control is the kyuubi and thats MKS you can't control something you can't see lols... and even then the only bijju that can be controlled by the mks is kyuubi if hachibi could be controlled sasuke would've tried it...

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-18-2009, 12:16 AM
Lol the only bijju sharingan can control is the kyuubi and thats MKS you can't control something you can't see lols... and even then the only bijju that can be controlled by the mks is kyuubi if hachibi could be controlled sasuke would've tried it...

Yea because the kyuubi isnt controled by genjutsu like manda was. A genjutsu works on anyone with a conscious and chakra sytem so dont BS. Wether genjutsu control or supression the hachibi isnt going to do crap lol.

And dont bring up sasuke who magicaly couldbt use any of his ninjutsu exept chidori which was used to electricute lol. Everything about that fight is messed up!!! Sasuke showed the ability to enter the seal zone where the bijuu lives so itachi could obviously do the same since hes more skilled. Then all it takes is genjutsu.

The Special One
11-18-2009, 12:17 AM
I'll just skip to the more important part.

OK.

Here KB said himself that he can break out of any illusion because his Bijuu, not the power, the bijuu is there to snap him out.http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...3/page014.html

So, as Ive been saying, take away the assistance to snap KB out then KB doesnt snap out!!! SG can just control the hachibi with genjutsu and keep him from helping.

Did you read the last setence of that link you posted? It explicitly stated that illusions won't work on a host who can CONTROL their Bijuu. THe word control is mentioned. When you control, you become ruler over such and such.

Myth
11-18-2009, 12:20 AM
Yea because the kyuubi isnt controled by genjutsu like manda was. A genjutsu works on anyone with a conscious and chakra sytem so dont BS. Wether genjutsu control or supression the hachibi isnt going to do crap lol.

And dont bring up sasuke who magicaly couldbt use any of his ninjutsu exept chidori which was used to electricute lol. Everything about that fight is messed up!!! Sasuke showed the ability to enter the seal zone where the bijuu lives so itachi could obviously do the same since hes more skilled. Then all it takes is genjutsu.

How do you know the kyuubi was controlled by genjutsu? big assumption.

I can bring up whomever I want if its cannon, fact is and its stated the only thing the mks can control is the kyuubi AND ONLY A MAN WITH ENOUGH POWER CAN DO IT which was only madara meaning itachi and sasuke wouldn't be able to control the kyuubi.. (I can provide proof should you ask for it)

But yeah wtf is manda to a bijju btw lol.. dude itachi can't control shit never was this shown or hinted at don't state shit you can't provide solid 100% manga proof to.

Vengeance
11-18-2009, 12:23 AM
Ummm yeah that's why I didn't argue this & just called KY a crackhead. Some people just don't realize how much they fail at life. No point in feeding that bullshit.

*Goes back to watching anime*

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-18-2009, 12:40 AM
I'll just skip to the more important part.



Did you read the last setence of that link you posted? It explicitly stated that illusions won't work on a host who can CONTROL their Bijuu. THe word control is mentioned. When you control, you become ruler over such and such.

It said illusion wont work because the hachibi cousciously disrupts KBs chakra snapping him out. Not because KB controls the hachibi which itachi would just take away.

How do you know the kyuubi was controlled by genjutsu? big assumption.

I can bring up whomever I want if its cannon, fact is and its stated the only thing the mks can control is the kyuubi AND ONLY A MAN WITH ENOUGH POWER CAN DO IT which was only madara meaning itachi and sasuke wouldn't be able to control the kyuubi.. (I can provide proof should you ask for it)

But yeah wtf is manda to a bijju btw lol.. dude itachi can't control shit never was this shown or hinted at don't state shit you can't provide solid 100% manga proof to.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-398/page002.html
Heres one that says a mouthfull.

So The fact that the hachibi has a conscious and chakra sytem and can be effected by chakra doesnt say enough when up against the genjutsu god lol.

Theres another pic, Ill look for it.

Ummm yeah that's why I didn't argue this & just called KY a crackhead. Some people just don't realize how much they fail at life. No point in feeding that bullshit.

*Goes back to watching anime*

Yea, because the replacement jutsu is a T/S jutsu lol!!! Yes, Veng said this.

Myth
11-18-2009, 12:44 AM
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-398/page002.html
Heres one that says a mouthfull.

So The fact that the hachibi has a conscious and chakra sytem and can be effected by chakra doesnt say enough when up against the genjutsu god lol.

Theres another pic, Ill look for it.



Thats not a manga page that a cover for it -_-, there's also one with sasuke and naruto controlling fujjin and rajin doesn't mean ts cannon ROFL.

And please explain to me how can one control something it cannot see.. hows itachi suppose to see hachibi does he have some sort of power kishi let you know about that we don't know?

Vengeance
11-18-2009, 12:44 AM
It actually is you're switching places with a near by object. This isn't done by pure speed else there would be no reason for the jutsu. Your lame idea of it being a henged object that is grabbed out of their arse & placed in there location while they run really quickly is just plan retarded. Especially since Kakashi used a clone of Naruto in place of himself.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-18-2009, 12:55 AM
It actually is you're switching places with a near by object. This isn't done by pure speed else there would be no reason for the jutsu. Your lame idea of it being a henged object that is grabbed out of their arse & placed in there location while they run really quickly is just plan retarded. Especially since Kakashi used a clone of Naruto in place of himself.

U switch using pure speed! Its being slick, not a T/S jutsu lol otherwise kakashi would be untouchable. And just like a clone, the log or w/e poofs after its attacked so the object is just cloned or however they do it. Its definatly not a T/S jutsu.

The Special One
11-18-2009, 01:27 AM
It said illusion wont work because the hachibi cousciously disrupts KBs chakra snapping him out..

I don't remember that conscious statement being mentioned.:D

Tryin to be slick...lol

If that was the case, how come the Kyuubi didn't break Naruto out of the genjutsu Itachi put him in?

You'll probably say because the Kyuubi didn't care about Naruto however, my counter argument would be that Naruto lacked the instinct, or know how to control the Kyuubi's chakra in that manner. At the end of the day, a skilled host can prevent the Bijuu from taking over when too much chakra is leaked out (something Naruto lacks when he drifts too far). If Killer Bee had no control over Hachibi, it wouldn't need Killer Bee's power to go Beast Mode (when Killer Bee clashed off against Kisame), it would simply emerge soon as Killer Bee took on the tailed states.

Going on your logic, the only way Killer Bee can fight with his Bijuu's chakra is when it
feels like it. I guess now Killer Bee has zero control of his Bijuu and the Hachibi calls the shots... Yeah, makes perfect sense..... Despite what Killer Bee, Danzou, and Madara says about his skill level in controlling his beast...

poolangya
11-18-2009, 08:07 AM
uhm, i just noticed a pattern here, kyf's argument of Naruto losing to Bee, and Bee losing to sharingan. he means Sharingan>KB>Naruto. that's the reason i stopped at my 3rd post of Naruto vs KB.

it was stated sharingan can control bijuus, example was kyubi. sasuke was able to suppress kyubi from naruto. but he didn't control it. madara was said to summon kyubi during 4th hokage's last fight. itachi?well it was said itachi's eyes are better than sasuke's but better does not mean, same abilities but better effects. in fact itachi was never shown to control or suppress any bijuu or jinchuriki during his entire appearances on manga.

genjutsu won't work on killerbee, unless kb and hachibi can be genjutsu'd at the same time, which i doubt very much. don't overestimate genjutsu so much, especially against someone who has full control of their bijuu.

Vengeance
11-18-2009, 08:09 AM
U switch using pure speed! Its being slick, not a T/S jutsu lol otherwise kakashi would be untouchable. And just like a clone, the log or w/e poofs after its attacked so the object is just cloned or however they do it. Its definatly not a T/S jutsu.
Ok I'll explain this clearly so even you'll be able to comprehend it KY.

Kakashi is being held by Naruto 5-18 (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-005/page018.html).

Naruto is suddenly without even noticing it holding a clone of himself 5-19 (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-005/page019.html).

It is later explained that Kakashi used Kawarimi 6-5 (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-006/page005.html). Note the example shown of Kakashi switching positions with a clone on the out side before he jumps into a tree to hide.

Kawarimi no jutsu is low level speed/time you fool.

Myth
11-18-2009, 10:06 AM
lmfaoo YOU CAN'T CONTROL WHAT YOU CAN'T SEE. I don't know when it was established that itachi could see the hachibi roflmfaoo, but untila a panel is given to support this its complete bullshit.

Vengeance
11-18-2009, 05:40 PM
New Fight: Zabuza vs. Kisame

Conditions: This fight takes place during the start of the manga. Kisame is not supercharged with Bijuu chakra from battling with the Yonbi & Hachibi. Both fighters are fully aware of each others abilities being as they're both former Mist Swordsmen.

Alt Fight(incase people want to fan Kisame): Zabuza & Haku vs. Kisame
Conditions: Same as above however Kisame doesn't know what Haku can do.

For both I'm voting for Zabuza. Feel free to disagree I'll give my reasons why later tonight as I’m going to hangout.

The Special One
11-18-2009, 05:47 PM
Hmm, does Kisame have his healing factor?

Vengeance
11-18-2009, 05:47 PM
Hmm, does Kisame have his healing factor?
Yes & Zabuza is fully aware of this healing factor.

The Special One
11-18-2009, 06:05 PM
Ok.

In close range Zabuza risk losing sufficient chakra through Clashing, so the logical thing for Zabuza to do is to attack from long range use water ninjutsu. However, I'm not sure if Zabuza has the chakra to make a field of water like Kisame can.

Though, I say Zabuza has the advantage in long ranged ninjutsu if Kisame creates at water field however, Kisame can fuse with his sword and improve his mobility in the water however, Zabuza's Grand Waterfall Technique (A Rank) takes control of the water and smashes the opponent around, this would put Kisame at a disadvantage.

So, on land and in close quarters Kisame has the opportunity to exaust Zabuza however, if it takes to the water (which would be on Kisame's accord), Zabuza seems to have a great control over the field with that A Rank jutsu.

Myth
11-18-2009, 06:08 PM
The mist he would use is chakra based so samahada can suck it away and thats the best thing going for zabuza... if u notch up zabuza to around kakashi's level of part 2 even though he's dead lol but theoretically speaking then Zabuza would shit on Kisame...

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-18-2009, 06:19 PM
I don't remember that conscious statement being mentioned.:D

Tryin to be slick...lol

If that was the case, how come the Kyuubi didn't break Naruto out of the genjutsu Itachi put him in?

You'll probably say because the Kyuubi didn't care about Naruto however, my counter argument would be that Naruto lacked the instinct, or know how to control the Kyuubi's chakra in that manner. At the end of the day, a skilled host can prevent the Bijuu from taking over when too much chakra is leaked out (something Naruto lacks when he drifts too far). If Killer Bee had no control over Hachibi, it wouldn't need Killer Bee's power to go Beast Mode (when Killer Bee clashed off against Kisame), it would simply emerge soon as Killer Bee took on the tailed states.

Going on your logic, the only way Killer Bee can fight with his Bijuu's chakra is when it
feels like it. I guess now Killer Bee has zero control of his Bijuu and the Hachibi calls the shots... Yeah, makes perfect sense..... Despite what Killer Bee, Danzou, and Madara says about his skill level in controlling his beast...

This arguement has nothing to do with the hachibis chakra. Its about the hachibi himself snapping KB out of illusions which is what KB said. And If itachi has hachibi under his control then thats not going to happen meaning no getting out of powerful genjutsu no matter how much bijuu chakra he wills himself.

uhm, i just noticed a pattern here, kyf's argument of Naruto losing to Bee, and Bee losing to sharingan. he means Sharingan>KB>Naruto. that's the reason i stopped at my 3rd post of Naruto vs KB.

it was stated sharingan can control bijuus, example was kyubi. sasuke was able to suppress kyubi from naruto. but he didn't control it. madara was said to summon kyubi during 4th hokage's last fight. itachi?well it was said itachi's eyes are better than sasuke's but better does not mean, same abilities but better effects. in fact itachi was never shown to control or suppress any bijuu or jinchuriki during his entire appearances on manga.

genjutsu won't work on killerbee, unless kb and hachibi can be genjutsu'd at the same time, which i doubt very much. don't overestimate genjutsu so much, especially against someone who has full control of their bijuu.

Thats exactly what I suggested!!! One clone takes care of the hachibi while the real itachi rapes a helpless KB.

Or Itachi could just use genjutsu on the hachibi and kkep him from assisting while itachi fights with taijutsu (Itachi at 30% was able to control naruto with genjutsu while fighting with kakashi so it works)

ANd Im not saying the SG>KB>Naruto lol. Im saying itachi>KB>Naruto if u want to put it that way.

lmfaoo YOU CAN'T CONTROL WHAT YOU CAN'T SEE. I don't know when it was established that itachi could see the hachibi roflmfaoo, but untila a panel is given to support this its complete bullshit.

Lol, Like sasuke couldnt see the Kyuubi too, right. sasuke was a 16 tear old, wet behind the ears SG user and he was easily able to enter that space where the bijuu is sealed so itachi would do it too so dont BS.

Vengeance
11-18-2009, 06:21 PM
Just wanted to mention something on my way to a bar(posting from my phone) Zabuza showed skill in use of suiton bushins for misdirection to get his opponents off guard. Samehada's ability doesn't amount to shit on a Bushin since it would get destroied with one attack anyway. Note that Zabuza's opponent was a sharingan user which is something Kisame doesn't have. I have to say based on preformace in straight up Tai Zabuza out preforms Kisame. Zabuza's sword doesn't require chakra conjunction to be effective unlike Kirabi. I see this fight going down with decapitation of Kisame or serious injury of Kisame by use of bushin tactics. Since Zabuza knows of Samehada he wouldn't give Kisame time to regenerate & would knock back the sword to prevent this. Also Samehada is alive & could be injured by the size & sharpness off his blade. Anyway time to get drunk.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-18-2009, 06:34 PM
SO Kisame vs zabuza? Seriously? High jounin level shinobi vs a mid kage level shinobi come one!

Zabuza couldnt beat kakashi even while using sasuke, naruto and sakura to his advantage in part one. Meanwhile kisame handed Post Time skip chunnin lee and tenten, and jounin neji and gai theyre asses at only 30%. Theres no comparison.

Absorbing no chakra Kisame still wins without much trouble because kisame can use bushins not only for misdirection, but also for the water prison jutsu. Kisame can also use water dragon jutsu just with more power and kisame can create another lake and use his water shark jutsu to pick zabuza apart.

Zabuza has mist, water dragon and suiton clones. Thats all!! All contain chakra and would be absorbed by samehada then zabuza would be left with taijutsu against a stronger, faster more powerful opponent.

No contest, kisame wins!

Myth
11-18-2009, 07:08 PM
Lol, Like sasuke couldnt see the Kyuubi too, right. sasuke was a 16 tear old, wet behind the ears SG user and he was easily able to enter that space where the bijuu is sealed so itachi would do it too so dont BS.

Right but what does hachibi have to do with kyuubi the sharingan and kyuubi have a connection that is why sasuke able to do it, but hachibi is a whole different demon and sorry sasuke had a chance to "see" hachbi and couldn't...

And just cause sasuke can do something doesn't mean itachi can thats called an assumption and till you've given a panel where it backs you up all your statements are nothing more then assumptions on your part..

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-18-2009, 07:17 PM
Right but what does hachibi have to do with kyuubi the sharingan and kyuubi have a connection that is why sasuke able to do it, but hachibi is a whole different demon and sorry sasuke had a chance to "see" hachbi and couldn't...

And just cause sasuke can do something doesn't mean itachi can thats called an assumption and till you've given a panel where it backs you up all your statements are nothing more then assumptions on your part..

The SG is said to be able to supress all the bijuu (clearly because theyre all from the same being).
And if the SG can control the strongest of the nine bijuu then how do u think the hachibi is going to fare? And like I said, if its conscious with a chakra sytem then it can be effected by genjutsu.

sasuke was clearly using the SGs natural abilites because hes never been trained how to use his SG So if one can do it then another of the same level should be able to as well. Lol, panel or not itachi can do anything sasuke can with a SG, just alittle better lol.

At this point its easier to agree to disagree!!

Myth
11-18-2009, 07:25 PM
The SG is said to be able to supress all the bijuu (clearly because theyre all from the same being).
And if the SG can control the strongest of the nine bijuu then how do u think the hachibi is going to fare? And like I said, if its conscious with a chakra sytem then it can be effected by genjutsu.Please show us where its stated that the sharingan is said to suppress all bijju ROFL.

sasuke was clearly using the SGs natural abilites because hes never been trained how to use his SG So if one can do it then another of the same level should be able to as well. Lol, panel or not itachi can do anything sasuke can with a SG, just alittle better lol.right which is why itachi couldn't wrap himself in amaterasu, dude nothing is fact in a debate unless you can provide proof.. .. this is the proof we have...

Im sorry but the sharingan can't see other bijju(till proven).

poolangya
11-18-2009, 07:30 PM
Like i said, even if itachi's eyes were said to be better than sasuke's, better doesn't mean that all sasuke's sharingan abilities + one level up. no no no no.

Myth
11-18-2009, 07:31 PM
Im still trying to figure out where it was stated that sharingan can suppress all bijju ROFLLMFAOOOO.

Vengeance
11-18-2009, 07:31 PM
Itachi can't use amaterasu like Sasuke. There was even a mention by C on how Sasuke's use of it surpasses Itachi. *vanishes*

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-18-2009, 07:47 PM
Im still trying to figure out where it was stated that sharingan can suppress all bijju ROFLLMFAOOOO.

Its in the DB, Dagoro knows where it is because hes the one that showed me. Ill look for it.

poolangya
11-18-2009, 07:47 PM
i also cant remember if it was said. for sure the kyubi can be cast under sharingan control,but being the strongest of the bijuus doesn't mean the other lower bijuus' achilles heel is sharingan. that's a lil too much to assume.

i haven't said my piece yet on the itachi vs killerbee, itachi has weak composition. his genjutsu would be as useless as sasuke's. i dunno about tsukuyomi since it would be instantaneous,but i believe it can be cancelled easily by hachibi. KB has more power and speed. taijutsu wise KB i believe has more advantage. as we have seen,amaterasu wont be effective on bee. the only saving grace for itachi would be susanoo. if KB is stupid to attack head on, he might lose, as itachi's susanoo is not only for defensive purpose, the sword of totsuka is one of the best offensive weapons/attacks i;ve seen. but if KB decides to play smart and rap for the meantime while susanoo drains itachi, itachi definitely loses. i like itachi but against Killerbee, his fate would be the same as sasuke, and he doesn't have PNJ on his side to revive him. itachi 3-7 Killerbee. Itachi loses.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-18-2009, 08:38 PM
i also cant remember if it was said. for sure the kyubi can be cast under sharingan control,but being the strongest of the bijuus doesn't mean the other lower bijuus' achilles heel is sharingan. that's a lil too much to assume.

i haven't said my piece yet on the itachi vs killerbee, itachi has weak composition. his genjutsu would be as useless as sasuke's. i dunno about tsukuyomi since it would be instantaneous,but i believe it can be cancelled easily by hachibi. KB has more power and speed. taijutsu wise KB i believe has more advantage. as we have seen,amaterasu wont be effective on bee. the only saving grace for itachi would be susanoo. if KB is stupid to attack head on, he might lose, as itachi's susanoo is not only for defensive purpose, the sword of totsuka is one of the best offensive weapons/attacks i;ve seen. but if KB decides to play smart and rap for the meantime while susanoo drains itachi, itachi definitely loses. i like itachi but against Killerbee, his fate would be the same as sasuke, and he doesn't have PNJ on his side to revive him. itachi 3-7 Killerbee. Itachi loses.

First, itachi is as fast as sasuke who dodged KB in tailed form so itachi has the speed advantage.

And SG aside how was amaterasu not effective? Kishi has to plot KB for no reason other then showing off by going into full hachibi form for KB to survive amaterasu. If KB was in any of the forms hes been in in the current fight he would die a painful death because he would be too small to hendge out.

And if itachi whips out sasanoo then anyone in his path without a T/S jutsu or super speed is going to die lol. The sword of totsuka can strike down any enemy while the yata mirro can block ANY attack wether physical, spiritual, ect.

Anyways this ones been beat to death.

Oro(Post time skip no edo tensai) vs deva in the forrest of death.

Myth
11-18-2009, 10:28 PM
Its in the DB, Dagoro knows where it is because hes the one that showed me. Ill look for it.

Dagoro never showed you shit because such a thing doesn't exist it's just you misinterputing things as always..

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-18-2009, 10:45 PM
Dagoro never showed you shit because such a thing doesn't exist it's just you misinterputing things as always..

I didnt misinterprit shit, dagoros posted it before in such a convo and since Im way to lazy to search through all that Info ur just going to have wait for him to reply.

Myth
11-18-2009, 10:52 PM
I didnt misinterprit shit, dagoros posted it before in such a convo and since Im way to lazy to search through all that Info ur just going to have wait for him to reply.

well if he posted it he's mistaken either way ur wrong.. i honestly don't care who wins between itachi or kirabi but that part in your post about Sg and controlling bijju was way off the fucking chart dude..

but i'll see what dagoro says and where he got this info from.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-18-2009, 11:43 PM
well if he posted it he's mistaken either way ur wrong.. i honestly don't care who wins between itachi or kirabi but that part in your post about Sg and controlling bijju was way off the fucking chart dude..

but i'll see what dagoro says and where he got this info from.

Only looked for a couple minutes and at least found this which isnt even what dagoro showed before.

[Eye power]
The main reason why the "Sharingan" was feared by everyone, including the inhabitants of the village, is the power hidden in those eyes, able to subdue even "bijuu". Sasuke, who is rapidly mastering his skills as an Uchiha, is also gradually awakening to that cursed power.

Not the Kyuubi, but Bijuu as translated lol. And not a bijuu refering to one which would by default be the kyuubi, but Bijuu as in more then one to all even, hahaaaaaaa!

Sucks to be wrong two days in a role. First with the raiton put on a sword isnt a ninjutsu and now this.

Myth
11-19-2009, 12:21 AM
Like I said you misinterpreted it... the sentence says it can subdue bijju kyuubi is a bijju.. I knew you misinterpreted it...

Oh last I checked i was right yesterday because what Kirabi does with his sword isn't ninjutsu its just channeling chakra into a weapon thats not called ninjutsu thats just raw chakra-_-..

What sasuke does is considered ninjutsu BECAUSE he actually uses chidori on the sword and not just chakra..-_-

good try though you failed yesterday and you failed today, nott o mention you have still yet to prove to us how itachi can see hachibi-_-.....

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-19-2009, 12:28 AM
Like I said you misinterpreted it... the sentence says it can subdue bijju kyuubi is a bijju.. I knew you misinterpreted it...

Oh last I checked i was right yesterday because what Kirabi does with his sword isn't ninjutsu its just channeling chakra into a weapon thats not called ninjutsu thats just raw chakra-_-..

What sasuke does is considered ninjutsu BECAUSE he actually uses chidori on the sword and not just chakra..-_-

good try though you failed yesterday and you failed today, nott o mention you have still yet to prove to us how itachi can see hachibi-_-.....

LMAO, ur reading Comp sucks as always Myth!!! Subdue BIJUU, not a Bijuu refering to one as I wrote in the post before but u Ignored obviously.

I guess when Pain said "I will use the power of the bijuu to make a new forbidden jutsu", he meant the kyuubi right, lol.

And LMFAO!!! Sasukes just chaneling raiton into his sword, just like KB. The is no difference exept sasuke calls his raiton jutsu chidori because of the sound of 100 birds lol.

Lol, and yet another day ur wrong!!!

Myth
11-19-2009, 12:32 AM
LMAO, ur reading Comp sucks as always Myth!!! Subdue BIJUU, not a Bijuu refering to one as I wrote in the post before but u Ignored obviously.



Ok here's something you should have learned in the 2nd grade...

Bijju in English translates to DEMON meaning SINGULAR

Bijjus translates to DEMONS meaning Plural

That sentence says can subdue BIJJU(1) not BIJJUS(MANY)...

I completely rejected what you said about sasuke because that comment was something only a true moron can say..

Edit: what Pain said was translated wrong... that line you got of the "subdue bijju" was translated wrong also btw and it was copy pasted... i hope you at least knew that...

The Special One
11-19-2009, 12:35 AM
The main reason why the "Sharingan" was feared by everyone, including the inhabitants of the village, is the power hidden in those eyes, able to subdue even "bijuu". Sasuke, who is rapidly mastering his skills as an Uchiha, is also gradually awakening to that cursed power.

I didn't speak on behalf of the sharingan being able to control the Bijuu or, not and frankly that's besides the point on what I'm getting at, so I won't go there. However, nowhere in the database has it been mentioned that the sharingan can shut down a Bijuu from a master host indefinitely. That's what it boils down to.

And it's fact that Hosts>Bijuu.

A Bijuu out in the wild lacks the mind and the know how to control its power and tap into its deepest potential. That's why hosts are so much more dangerous. And a Master host such as Killer Bee can't be trumped by the sharingan so easily.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-318/page012.html

A Bijuu can be subdued however, can a Bijuu that exists within a body be subdued indefinitely? All we can fall back on is that Sasuke suppressed the Kyuubi however, Naruto had no intentions of using the Kyuubi anyway. Naruto was planning on pushing the Kyuubi's chakra back (until Sasuke done it for him). I would assume Naruto has some control over the Kyuubi's chakra after 2 and a half years.

Your argument is that a host can only draw on a Bijuu's chakra if he has the Bijuu's permission however, if that was the case, what is the point of learning how to release the second chakra source?

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-092/page014.html

So I ask this one question. How do you control something that is not of your own accord?

Generally, a "skillful" host has more control over their Bijuu than the 1st, Madara, or any sharingan should have over it. It's probably no more different than Sasuke learning to master the cursed seal. Even after Kakashi suppressed it with an advanced level sealing(yes this is an analogy; same concept), Sasuke has learned how to overcome the cursed seal and make it his own.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
11-19-2009, 12:45 AM
I didn't speak on behalf of the sharingan being able to control the Bijuu or, not and frankly that's besides the point on what I'm getting at, so I won't go there. However, nowhere in the database has it been mentioned that the sharingan can shut down a Bijuu from a master host indefinitely. That's what it boils down to.

And it's fact that Hosts>Bijuu.

A Bijuu out in the wild lacks the mind and the know how to control its power and tap into its deepest potential. That's why hosts are so much more dangerous. And a Master host such as Killer Bee can't be trumped by the sharingan so easily.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-318/page012.html

A Bijuu can be subdued however, can a Bijuu that exists within a body be subdued indefinitely? All we can fall back on is that Sasuke suppressed the Kyuubi however, Naruto had no intentions of using the Kyuubi anyway. Naruto was planning on pushing the Kyuubi's chakra back (until Sasuke done it for him). I would assume Naruto has some control over the Kyuubi's chakra after 2 and a half years.

Your argument is that a host can only draw on a Bijuu's chakra if he has the Bijuu's permission however, if that was the case, what is the point of learning how to release the second chakra source?

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-092/page014.html

So I ask this one question. How do you control something that is not of your own accord?

Generally, a "skillful" host has more control over their Bijuu than the 1st, Madara, or any sharingan should have over it. It's probably no more different than Sasuke learning to master the cursed seal. Even after Kakashi suppressed it with an advanced level sealing(yes this is an analogy; same concept), Sasuke has learned how to overcome the cursed seal and make it his own.

What do u mean Indefinatly? I was refering to itachi putting the hachibi under his control so he cant help snap KB out of genjutsu on him. The SG temporaily taking away control isnt that hard to believe since it can subdue bijuu.

And no, as Ive said already this isnt about the host willfully taking power. Its about the hachibi itself being able to snap KB out which is impossible if its under a gen and momentarily not assisting.

KB can take all the power he wants, but he said himself he can beat any Illusion because his Bijuu can snap him out, not the power of the bijuu. Its like sakura snapping naruto out of a genjutsu. He needs that extra person or in KBs case the hachibi itself.

Myth
11-19-2009, 12:56 AM
This is the question kyf....


HOW THE FUCK CAN ITACHI SEE THE HACHIBI IN KILLER BEE WHERE DID YOU GET THIS FROM DO YOU HAVE A PANEL OR A DIRECT QUOTE.

Assumptions mean nothing here you can only back yourself up with 100% manga panel proof...

ITACHI CANNOT SEE BIJJU INSIDE HOSTS never has this been shown or even hinted at, he can prob see kyuubi but thats because the sharingan and kyuubi have a connection HOWEVER THATS ALSO AN ASSUMPTION.

Because what you can't prove didn't happen.

poolangya
11-19-2009, 01:04 AM
one uchiha shown in manga panels able to see kyubi inside the consciousness of another person does not guarantee that the entire uchiha clan can do that. do you realize that sharingan eyes vary from each person?not totally of course,but still, one to generalize all is an insufficient argument.

The Special One
11-19-2009, 01:08 AM
What do u mean Indefinatly?

Not determined. Basically, an undetermined amount of time in this case. Since we don't know how long a Bijuu can be in submission, the time amount is indefinite.

KB can take all the power he wants, but he said himself he can beat any Illusion because his Bijuu can snap him out, not the power of the bijuu. Its like sakura snapping naruto out of a genjutsu. He needs that extra person or in KBs case the hachibi itself.

Relying on an ally to break one's self out of a genjutsu is the last resort, after that, you just give up. However, the first step is trying to get out of a genjutsu yourself. First, you disrupt your own chakra flow however, if the genjutsu is too strong, the only way to get out is to have a person their chakra into your chakra network, this breaks the irregular channel however, even a little of the Bijuu's chakra is many folds more denser than that of the average shinobi. If Killer Bee overflows his body by channeling the Bijuu's chakra himself, he can effectively break the irregular channel himself.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-259/page010.html

Naruto simply didn't use his Bijuu's chakra, that would have been a sufficient force in disrupting his irregular chakra flow.