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illusiontoreality
03-18-2011, 08:11 PM
Why is yatta mirror more absolute? From what I remember Sasuke's incomplete form withstood stronger attacks when compared to anything Itachi is seen defending against with the exception of Kirin. Besides I'm talking about attacking from behind where the so called magic shield wouldn't be able to block. Get it yet or do I need to draw you a picture?

It is more absolute because it is stated in the manga to deflect ALL things. Long story short, all minato has is magical teleporting kunai. In any logical interpretation of who is stronger, itachi wins. FIN

Vengeance
03-18-2011, 08:13 PM
The only time that was mentioned was in the form of a question. It is implied that itachi can do it,
Actually its implied that Itachi can't which is why the statement was even made.

if sasuke can do it as a beginner, you know since he's a prodigy and all that...just because we never had the oppertunity to see him do it, doesn't mean he can't...
Actually it does mean Itachi can't do it because of the statement made by Shi. If that wasn't the case then it wouldn't have been mentioned obviously.

Edit

It is more absolute because it is stated in the manga to deflect ALL things. Long story short, all minato has is magical teleporting kunai. In any logical interpretation of who is stronger, itachi wins. FIN
How is Itachi going to stop Minato when he can't even touch him?

AOTKorby
03-18-2011, 08:13 PM
As we all know, a hand-held shield is perfectly designed for blocking attacks from all 360 degrees. That's why Line Warfare was dominant for thousands upon thousands of years, after all! /sarcasm

illusiontoreality
03-18-2011, 08:17 PM
Actually its implied that Itachi can't which is why the statement was even made.


Actually it does mean Itachi can't do it because of the statement made by Shi. If that wasn't the case then it wouldn't have been mentioned obviously.

It was only mentioned in the form of a question, if i remember correctly, so that the writer could show the reader how skilled sasuke is becoming in comparison with someone we already know who is badass with the mangekyo. Not necessarily stating that itachi could not do it. get that, or do i need to "draw a picture for you?"

Vengeance
03-18-2011, 08:20 PM
Now you're stealing my catch phrases? LMAO I'm done repeating myself the manga implies the opposite of what you're saying. That's the simple truth.

illusiontoreality
03-18-2011, 08:25 PM
Now you're stealing my catch phrases? LMAO I'm done repeating myself the manga implies the opposite of what you're saying. That's the simple truth.

No, it doesnt. re read what i said, and then read how what shi says is in the form of a questionnnnn. The whole purpose is to compare sasuke to itachi in order to show that sasuke is now a badass. not that itachi could not manipulate amaterasu, which only an idiot would believe. http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-463/15/

kael03
03-18-2011, 08:42 PM
No, it doesnt. re read what i said, and then read how what shi says is in the form of a questionnnnn. The whole purpose is to compare sasuke to itachi in order to show that sasuke is now a badass. not that itachi could not manipulate amaterasu, which only an idiot would believe. http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-463/15/

The implication of that question is that, while Itachi was extremely skilled with his Mangekyo (since awakening Susanoo is rare even for those that awaken their Mangekyo), Sasuke is more skilled with Amaterasu. Itachi has never shown the ability to use Enton, has never shown the ability to manipulate the flames of Amaterasu in any way aside from calling them into his focal point. Sasuke, however, has shown that one can use the genjutsu eye to manipulate the flames of Amaterasu.

illusiontoreality
03-18-2011, 08:47 PM
The implication of that question is that, while Itachi was extremely skilled with his Mangekyo (since awakening Susanoo is rare even for those that awaken their Mangekyo), Sasuke is more skilled with Amaterasu. Itachi has never shown the ability to use Enton, has never shown the ability to manipulate the flames of Amaterasu in any way aside from calling them into his focal point. Sasuke, however, has shown that one can use the genjutsu eye to manipulate the flames of Amaterasu.

I get what you're saying, however, is it not logical to say that the statement was made in order to compare him to the only other amaterasu user in the manga? He isnt saying that itachi COULDNT do it, we've never even seen itachi fight enough in order to judge his skills with amaterasu. But dont you think it would be logical to assume that someone like itachi can do that? other than that, i'm pretty sure his eyes are the opposite of itachis. sasuke uses amaterasu from the opposite eye of itachi, and vice versa..

Vengeance
03-18-2011, 08:52 PM
Two words logical fallacy.

kael03
03-18-2011, 08:57 PM
I get what you're saying, however, is it not logical to say that the statement was made in order to compare him to the only other amaterasu user in the manga?

It's more logical that the statement was made because Itachi's skill with the Mangekyo was highly praised/feared and Sasuke's proving he's more skilled with Amaterasu, like Itachi was more skilled with Tsukuyomi (Danzo called Sasuke's MS genjutsu trash compared to Itachi's).

He isnt saying that itachi COULDNT do it, we've never even seen itachi fight enough in order to judge his skills with amaterasu.

...did you not read the entire fight between Itachi and Sasuke where they both brought each other to almost no chakra? Itachi had several opportunities to show he could use Enton, but never did.

But dont you think it would be logical to assume that someone like itachi can do that?

It's logical that he had the potential for it, but never trained for it. Itachi focused more on Tsukuyomi than Amaterasu for a couple of reasons: Amaterasu causes physical damage to the eye, signaled by the crying of blood; Amaterasu has yet to show it's capable of incapacitating anyone (that snake doesn't count because Orochimaru was sealed away by the Totsuka sword before the snake was consumed by the flames).

other than that, i'm pretty sure his eyes are the opposite of itachis. sasuke uses amaterasu from the opposite eye of itachi, and vice versa..

We've known this for a while. Why are you bringing this up?

illusiontoreality
03-18-2011, 09:04 PM
Two words logical fallacy.

Wrong. Your failure to comprehend the meaning of a "comparison" between two characters does not equate to logical fallacy on my part by any means. As I said, it'd be along the lines of retarded to believe that itachi could not manipulate amaterasu in that way, just because we've only had the chance to see sasuke do it...hmm, maybe because sasuke one of the two main characters in the entire manga? how many times have we seen itachi use amaterasu? twice? my point. lets just agree to disagree, shall we?

Vengeance
03-18-2011, 09:09 PM
Wrong. Your failure to comprehend the meaning of a "comparison" between two characters does not equate to logical fallacy on my part by any means. As I said, it'd be along the lines of retarded to believe that itachi could not manipulate amaterasu in that way, just because we've only had the chance to see sasuke do it...hmm, maybe because sasuke one of the two main characters in the entire manga? how many times have we seen itachi use amaterasu? twice? my point. lets just agree to disagree, shall we?
You're like trying to be my very own mini me how cute! I agree that you're wrong can we settle on that? I pretty much stopped commenting already when I said I wouldn't repeat myself. It really doesn't matter how many times you say the same thing it still isn't going to change what the actual manga states.

illusiontoreality
03-18-2011, 09:16 PM
You're like trying to be my very own mini me how cute! I agree that you're wrong can we settle on that? I pretty much stopped commenting already when I said I wouldn't repeat myself. It really doesn't matter how many times you say the same thing it still isn't going to change what the actual manga states.

So tell me, where does the manga actually state this? all we've been doing is arguing about which view point is most likely...hmm...logical fallacy? check. so yeah, lets agree that in your world, you're correct. i'm done as well.

Vengeance
03-18-2011, 09:22 PM
So tell me, where does the manga actually state this? all we've been doing is arguing about which view point is most likely...hmm...logical fallacy? check. so yeah, lets agree that in your world, you're correct. i'm done as well.
Ok you made an illogical assumption by saying "But dont you think it would be logical to assume that someone like itachi can do that?". Your so called logical stance is based on the idea that we should assume that Itachi has the ability to do the opposite of what the manga actually implies. Claiming logic on a statement that isn't based on actual logic makes what you're saying a logical fallacy. What's funny is that you're still trying to argue about this. Try harder.

Amuro
03-18-2011, 11:28 PM
Veng i think hes trying to say since itachi is "better" than sasuke. He should be able to do it too. Idc either way tho

I think it would be a good fight. If they fought 10 times, each time, not knowing about eachothers abilities. I see it being 6-4 Minato. FTG is fast, but unless Minato has them preset that means he would have to throw them. Like he did against Madara. Thats not slick to Itachi, no matter how fast he throws them because of Itachis Sharringan (we all saw him and Sasuke go at it with shurikens). Now him warping, where the kunai is SUPPOSED TO BE is some shit. Its instant. Minato would probably be in mid flight with a attack. Even if Itachi dodges it (the first time Minato throws it), Minato can warp where it is (behind itachi) and attack. Or put a ftg seal on him.

This is where it gets funny.

I can see it going Itachis way because unless Minato kills him with the first attack, Itachi will understand that Minato teleports where ever the kunai is. If he figures that out I think he'll find a way to counter it. By following trejectory and remembering where the kunais are. I see Itachi as being very smart, a genius like Minato, but Minato having
a edge. I can also see Itachi trolling Minato into a genjutsu. After a little break in fighting. If they have any gay convo on philosophies er anything. All it takes is a finger, or eye contact. Especially if Minato dosent know Itachis genjutsu. Susanoo.... I havent personally seen (correct me if im wrong) Minato do any powerful offensive attacks except for Rasengan. Danzo shot a wind jutsu in a fucking vacuum to "crack" susanoo.
Amaterasu wont work because Minato can dodge it. Hand to hand combat would be difficult for Itachi because Minato could place a seal on him on any type on contact.

A lot of bs but I see Minato winning 6-4

kael03
03-18-2011, 11:55 PM
Veng i think hes trying to say since itachi is "better" than sasuke. He should be able to do it too.

It honestly depends on the training. Itachi clearly trained more with Tsukuyomi, and any other genjutsu, than he had with Amaterasu. This is evident by his fight with Kurenai, who is one of the top genjutsu specialists in Konoha and had Itachi's respect for her skill. Sasuke's version of Tsukuyomi didn't have anywhere near the potency of Itachi's, but he's able to shape and control his Amaterasu much better, to the point of creating a new element: Enton.

goldengod
03-19-2011, 12:05 AM
Why did this turn into an enton discussion? Sasuke is better with ametersu while itachi is better with tsykumi. And in all honesty, it suits their fighting style.

Vengeance
03-19-2011, 12:06 AM
How about if Minato teleports Bunta behind Susanoo & Bunta strikes with a water bullet? Would that not totally decimate Susanoo since the magic shield can't defend against it?

goldengod
03-19-2011, 12:11 AM
How about if Minato teleports Bunta behind Susanoo & Bunta strikes with a water bullet? Would that not totally decimate Susanoo since the magic shield can't defend against it?

But even without susanoo shield it's still pretty tuff to break it. Itachi susanoo tanked sasuke's kirin, and it hadnt fully formed yet so i'm gessing it could take a water bullet

Vengeance
03-19-2011, 12:14 AM
But even without susanoo shield it's still pretty tuff to break it. Itachi susanoo tanked sasuke's kirin, and it hadnt fully formed yet so i'm gessing it could take a water bullet
I'm guessing that it would since the attack itself is massive in scale & executed from a giant ninja toad that would have allot more chakra & attack power potential when compared to a human like Danzou.

goldengod
03-19-2011, 12:17 AM
I'm guessing that it would since the attack itself is massive in scale & executed from a giant ninja toad that would have allot more chakra & attack power potential when compared to a human like Danzou.
I made a sasuke example, that giant ninja toad isnt packing more firepower than what sasuke hit itachi with.

chidoriQ
03-19-2011, 12:48 PM
everyone is overestimating the 4th because of his title of "kage." Itachi was captain of anbu or whatever at 13, and refered to as the best at whatever he did. sorry, but the 4th's so called "speed" would not be enough to beat itachi.

come on,during minato's fight with madara we didnt see him fight to his full strength so imagine wat he has up his sleeve

ninjalostboy95
03-19-2011, 01:56 PM
But dont you think it would be logical to assume that someone like itachi can do that?

This is what you're doing if you even attempt to argue with the quoted statement. (http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/arguing-from-ignorance/) Kael and Vengeance are right. Minato not only has kunais for T/S jutsu, he also has other T/S jutsu such as T/S barriers. It's possible that rasengan is more destructive than that wind jutsu Danzo used, but I can't say it's a fact though.

NeoKakarott023
03-19-2011, 02:37 PM
Okay, I've just gone Getsuga Tensho Final Form, and I'm going to end this discussion... in a single instant. Itachi Fans, please stop deluding yourselves, his illness is as much of his character as his crows, you can't distance yourselves from Kishi plottfully screwing the guy. Stop attempting to subtract his illness, and add Sasukes techs to his arsenal, to attempt to make Itachi a worthy opponent for those that his not in the same league with. It cheapens your character, and your skewed views to make him matter is even more apparent. Uchiha Itachi of course would try hard, and give a good account, but stamina wise, & tech wise he was stunted by plot, theres no way on Gods green Earth, Itachi's taking out Minato, I won't say try harder, I'll say try something else, this is a waste of words, its that apparent.

AOTKorby
03-19-2011, 03:49 PM
This is what you're doing if you even attempt to argue with the quoted statement. (http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/arguing-from-ignorance/) Kael and Vengeance are right. Minato not only has kunais for T/S jutsu, he also has other T/S jutsu such as T/S barriers. It's possible that rasengan is more destructive than that wind jutsu Danzo used, but I can't say it's a fact though.

Decent probability I'd say, given that it floored Madara in one shot even though the same guy was later able to rip his own damn arm off and not give a shit about it.

jericho Uzimaki
03-19-2011, 07:23 PM
I am going to do something that may be unique.
I am going to pit ninja vs. ninja in the SAME space & time.

Kakashi vs. Itachi.

As we know Itachi was a GENIUS of Minato caliber far as Uchiha goes.
But so IS Kakashi, even if some forget.

okay let's see

Acadamy grad...Itachi 6...Kakashi 5

Chunin promo...itachi 10 Kakashi 6

Jonin promo...Itachi ?? Kakashi 13



At the time of the 9 tail attack Kakashi was 14-15 & a Jonin, Itachi was 6 or 7.


Now i ask you good people:

Kakashi vs. Itachi THEN!

ninjalostboy95
03-19-2011, 07:40 PM
Acadamy grad...Itachi 6...Kakashi 5

Alright. We don't know their abilities at the time.

Chunin promo...itachi 10 Kakashi 6

Did he have Chidori then? Probably not, so the same as above.....Wait Itachi has sharingan(3 tomoe) at this point in time. I'd go with Itachi.

Jonin promo...Itachi ?? Kakashi 13

Itachi was Anbu Captain at age 13. That surpasses Kakashi. I'd say Itachi.

At the time of the 9 tail attack Kakashi was 14-15 & a Jonin, Itachi was 6 or 7.

What about it? That's irrelevant to the fight.

Kakashi vs. Itachi THEN!

Itachi, most likely.

kael03
03-19-2011, 07:45 PM
I am going to do something that may be unique.
I am going to pit ninja vs. ninja in the SAME space & time.

Kakashi vs. Itachi.

As we know Itachi was a GENIUS of Minato caliber far as Uchiha goes.
But so IS Kakashi, even if some forget.

okay let's see

Acadamy grad...Itachi 6...Kakashi 5

Chunin promo...itachi 10 Kakashi 6

Jonin promo...Itachi ?? Kakashi 13



At the time of the 9 tail attack Kakashi was 14-15 & a Jonin, Itachi was 6 or 7.


Now i ask you good people:

Kakashi vs. Itachi THEN!

We've seen Itachi take out Kakashi without even really trying. No contest here.

AniMeFaN
03-19-2011, 09:09 PM
What about it? That's irrelevant to the fight.

Itachi, most likely.

wtf are you on, you think itachi at 6-7 could beat kakashi as a jounin at 14-15.

ask me anything
03-19-2011, 09:51 PM
wtf are you on, you think itachi at 6-7 could beat kakashi as a jounin at 14-15.

What's age got to do with anything. This is a manga where kids walk all over ninja's twice their age with relative ease. Hell Orochimaruo was over 3 times Itachi's age and look how easily he got trounced.


We don't know anything about either of them at this age so it's hard to say. Although we know Kakshi hadn't been a Jounin but a couple of years at this point so he was nowhere near as good as he was now. Hell, look at how much using sharingan messed him up at the beginning of part 1 when he was 27 and already had 14 years to train with it. Considering his handicap with it then, he must have really sucked at using it when he first got it. Not to mention it was still at 2 tomoe's at the time. Itachi was said to have mastered the sahrigan at age 8 so I assume he also had it at 2 tomoe at age 7, so they're even there (Though Itachi's sharigan wouldn't drain his chakra as much). Both of them lack stamina, so no advantage for either one there. They're both geniuses so that's about even.

So yeah, it's totally reasonable For Itachi to be on par with Kakashi at that age. Definitely in the realm of possibilities. I don't know why you'd think otherwise.

AniMeFaN
03-19-2011, 09:58 PM
i thought he awakend the sharingan at 7, im not sure he even had it the time frame were talking about, he had just graduated from the academy and kakashi was 2x his age and a jounin

ninjalostboy95
03-19-2011, 10:03 PM
@AmA: Itachi at 6-7 would most likely lose to jounin Kakashi. Itachi didn't master his sharingan yet and Kakashi has a 3 tomoe sharingan and is more powerful. Age matters in this situation since Itachi mastered his sharingan at 8 which would put him at a disadvantage if he was 6-7 for obvious reasons.

wtf are you on, you think itachi at 6-7 could beat kakashi as a jounin at 14-15.

Learn2read. He was talking about the kyuubi incident, and I said that was irrelevant to the fight. At the last part he put "Kakashi vs. Itachi" in which I said Itachi, most likely. That was pertaining to their current abilities/abilities before death(in Itachi's case.) Wtf are you on?

kael03
03-19-2011, 10:05 PM
i thought he awakend the sharingan at 7,

He awakened it at 7, mastered it at 8.

im not sure he even had it the time frame were talking about,

What would be the time frame we're talking about? All Jericho did was list the ages that Kakashi and Itachi accomplished similar feats. He never said specifically what eras of the timeline the fighters are from.

he had just graduated from the academy and kakashi was 2x his age and a jounin

And he still trounced Kakashi, who was considered a genius and was even praised by Itachi for his skill with the Sharingan despite the handicap of having a non-Uchiha body, when he was just wanting to leave the village after scouting/reminding the elders he was still around.

AniMeFaN
03-19-2011, 10:06 PM
Learn2read. He was talking about the kyuubi incident, and I said that was irrelevant to the fight. At the last part he put "Kakashi vs. Itachi" in which I said Itachi, most likely. That was pertaining to their current abilities/abilities before death(in Itachi's case.) Wtf are you on?

he said itachi vs kakashi in a specific space/time, that time being during the kyuubi attack in which itachi was 6-7 and kakashi was 14-15

kael03
03-19-2011, 10:10 PM
he said itachi vs kakashi in a specific space/time,

Read again, idiot. He didn't list a time frame.

that time being during the kyuubi attack in which itachi was 6-7 and kakashi was 14-15

He said that "at the time of the attack" they were that age. Did you not notice he was comparing their accomplishments since they are both considered genius ninja? I'm guessing Jericho was meaning the fight would be between Itachi before death and Kakashi now.

AniMeFaN
03-19-2011, 10:11 PM
He awakened it at 7, mastered it at 8..

yea thats what i thought, awakened at 7

What would be the time frame we're talking about? All Jericho did was list the ages that Kakashi and Itachi accomplished similar feats. He never said specifically what eras of the timeline the fighters are from..

the one he mentioned which was during the kyuubi incident when itachi was 6-7 and kakashi 14-15

And he still trounced Kakashi, who was considered a genius and was even praised by Itachi for his skill with the Sharingan despite the handicap of having a non-Uchiha body, when he was just wanting to leave the village after scouting/reminding the elders he was still around.

yea well itachi at that time was clearly on another level. this is a completely different time wehre talking about when they are both significantly younger

AniMeFaN
03-19-2011, 10:13 PM
Read again, idiot. He didn't list a time frame.



He said that "at the time of the attack" they were that age. Did you not notice he was comparing their accomplishments since they are both considered genius ninja? I'm guessing Jericho was meaning the fight would be between Itachi before death and Kakashi now.

wtf are you calling me an idiot for, he clearly said kakashi vs itachi then and listed the time frame of during the kyuubi attack

kael03
03-19-2011, 10:17 PM
the one he mentioned which was during the kyuubi incident when itachi was 6-7 and kakashi 14-15

Go back and reread his post, he never said that was the time that they would fight from.

Also, Kakashi was still 13 when the Kyuubi attack. You can do simple math for this: Beginning of Part 1 he was 26, kyuubi attack was 13 years before the series started, 26-13 would be 13. Itachi was also 5 when the kyuubi attacked, not 6-7.

yea well itachi at that time was clearly on another level.

And Kakashi is on a different level at the time of the war/Itachi's death. When they fought in Part 1, Kakashi didn't have his Mangekyo or all of the variants to Chidori.

this is a completely different time wehre talking about when they are both significantly younger

Again, he didn't say that the time frame would be from the Kyuubi attack, he just listed their relative ages at that time. He said he was going to do 2 ninja from the same era, which we've already seen them fight.

AniMeFaN
03-19-2011, 10:20 PM
@kael- you are seriously a joke, deny until you die bro

kael03
03-19-2011, 10:22 PM
How am I denying when he didn't say "Kakashi vs Itachi at the time of the Kyuubi attack"? Seriously, you make my head hurt sometimes with how stupid you are.

Also, if it was at the time of the attack it would be Kakashi by a vast amount. He had the sharingan and Itachi didn't awaken his then, he had more experience than Itachi, having been graduated for 7 years when Itachi wasn't even in the academy when the Kyuubi attacked. That fight would make no sense to do.

Vengeance
03-19-2011, 10:23 PM
At the time of the 9 tail attack Kakashi was 14-15 & a Jonin, Itachi was 6 or 7.


Now i ask you good people:

Kakashi vs. Itachi THEN!
Kakashi wins this hands down if we're basing it on this timeline. Why is this even up for discussion anyway? The only real reason why Kakashi lost the first fight was because of Itachi's MS genjutsu. In the so called second fight Kakashi tectonically won. So really to pit them against each other during the kyuubi attack is laughable since Kakashi would already have a sharingan. Kakashi would wipe his arse with Itachi in a manor of minutes. Kakashi would be physically stronger, faster, & more experienced in combat. While Itachi's sharingan gives him no real advantage since Kakashi has one himself.

AniMeFaN
03-19-2011, 10:24 PM
How am I denying when he didn't say "Kakashi vs Itachi at the time of the Kyuubi attack"? Seriously, you make my head hurt sometimes with how stupid you are.


At the time of the 9 tail attack Kakashi was 14-15 & a Jonin, Itachi was 6 or 7.


Now i ask you good people:

Kakashi vs. Itachi THEN!


wtf are you on seriously

kael03
03-19-2011, 10:30 PM
wtf are you on seriously

I ask the same thing of you. Go look at that part again. He simply lists the ages they were at the time of the kyuubi attack (you can tell it's a simple listing because he also points out how old they were when they reached the respective milestones of being a ninja). Why, I don't know, but it's Jericho and I gave up figuring that out long ago. But I digress. If he was trying to put it at that time frame, it would be a joke of a fight because Kakashi would have so many advantages over Itachi it wouldn't be a close fight.

Seriously, why are we even discussing this?

Vengeance
03-19-2011, 10:33 PM
New Fight

Kakashi with Zabuza's sword vs Kisame with Samehada.

kael03
03-19-2011, 10:36 PM
New Fight

Kakashi with Zabuza's sword vs Kisame with Samehada.

Kisame has the advantage because of his massive amount of chakra combined with Samehada's ability. Kakashi would put up a good fight, but I think he would lose because of his stamina handicap and his chakra tank is about half of Kisame's (I'm basing that assumption on Kakashi saying Naruto has about twice his chakra and Kisame's been described as a "tailed beast without the tail").

AniMeFaN
03-19-2011, 10:37 PM
I ask the same thing of you. Go look at that part again. He simply lists the ages they were at the time of the kyuubi attack (you can tell it's a simple listing because he also points out how old they were when they reached the respective milestones of being a ninja). Why, I don't know, but it's Jericho and I gave up figuring that out long ago. But I digress. If he was trying to put it at that time frame, it would be a joke of a fight because Kakashi would have so many advantages over Itachi it wouldn't be a close fight.

Seriously, why are we even discussing this?

you ask the same thing to me when you are the one who kept on denying what was blatantly obvious and said and still telling me to go back and read it again. i dont need to look again, i know what he was doing, taking a look at what age each achieved certain ranks, then he listed a time frame and there ages in which they both were and asked who would win.

kael03
03-19-2011, 10:39 PM
New fight!

Naruto with the Kiba swords vs Sakura with the needle sword...


....ok, Naruto would more likely stab himself in the throat before Sakura could do any damage.

NeoKakarott023
03-19-2011, 10:41 PM
The problem that people are simply bypassing in these imaginary fights is that they're turning people into battle machines that they simply ain't, the characters personality syncs with their fighting style. Then to simply chain jutsu's used in past skirmishes and situations, and to say that this character or that character would win is up to whomevers imagination. But it doesn't make ones beliefs more valid than anothers.

Now in a situation where characters are in a battle like say the Chuunin Exams, one can analyze 2 opponents abilities, and weaknesses and come to play yeah one could prolly come out with a winner that most would agree upon. But if the character hasn't actually killed anyone in the manga, or even won a battle, vs. someone who has, they don't even meet the threshold of a fight to the death match. Not every named shinobi has actually killed someone else, the list really ain't that long in the manga. Heck even if like Gaara controlled by a Demon and kill someone not of your own will counts you in as a killer. Shinobi track record should matter since the battles are being based on the same information. Example, even though Chouji is a crying baby bitch, if ya give him 3 pills, and some Fucking Fluttery Buttery Wings, he's killed someone in the past.

ask me anything
03-19-2011, 10:43 PM
Also, Kakashi was still 13 when the Kyuubi attack. You can do simple math for this: Beginning of Part 1 he was 26, kyuubi attack was 13 years before the series started, 26-13 would be 13. Itachi was also 5 when the kyuubi attacked, not 6-7.


Off Topic:
I've always felt Kishi messed up Kakashi's age a bit. Kakashi was 13 during Kakashi Gaiden, and (as you pointed out) also 13 during the kyuubi attack. Somehow in a few months time he grew over a foot taller. That's one hell of a growth spurt, LOL. Either that's bad drawing on Kishi's part or he just didn't think about the age.



BOT: Anyway, Itachi at 5 is a different story. He'd still be in the academy then without sharigan so there's no way he could take on Kakashi.

ask me anything
03-19-2011, 10:59 PM
New Fight

Kakashi with Zabuza's sword vs Kisame with Samehada.


Kisame wins by a landslide. I mean, he has a shit ton of chakra, can fuse with samehada for healing abilities, and create a massive lake to fight in. Fighting Kisame on/in water is a bad idea no matter who you are. Kakashi is a one on one style fighter. I've seen nothing in his arsenal that could counter any of the stuff Kisame unleashed against Gai in their last fight. What could Kakashi possibly do against 1000's of water sharks. Copy it? Yeah right. His chakra would be gone in no time. What about Kisame's final jutsu. I can't remember what it was called. Giant shark bullet thingy, idk. Whatever, that thing was massive. Kamui couldn't possible suck up something that huge. So yeah, he's fucked.

His only saving grace would be to Kamui Kisame in the head, but even that's not going to be easy, since Kisame can stay at a distance spamming water techs at him. Zabuza's sword really isn't going to help him any.

I'd give this to Kisame 9-1.

New fight!

Naruto with the Kiba swords vs Sakura with the needle sword...


....ok, Naruto would more likely stab himself in the throat before Sakura could do any damage.

LOL this fight is just lulzy. Nartuo wins this hands down, for one simple reason. Sakura fails at everything she does. Giving her a sword won't change that.

Vengeance
03-20-2011, 01:37 AM
People keep mentioning chakra as if that is the ultimate deciding factor in every fight. Kakashi wielding Kubikiri Bōchō is to allow for a sword fight situation & also allows Kakashi to conserve his chakra. Kakashi has already shown the ability to copy Kisame's jutsu in an instant to cancel out his attacks. This implies that Kakashi has at the very least a speed advantage when it comes to actually executing jutsu. Kisame's chakra pool was enhanced during Kirabi's fight because he was absorbing Kirabi's chakra as well. Really though the amount of chakra Kisame has shouldn't really matter if he doesn't have time to utilize it properly. In close range combat Kubikiri Bōchō would allow Kakashi to attack without a real fear of getting chakra absorbed since Kubikiri Bōchō is simply a metal blade. There is no actual chakra for Samehada to absorb which would allow Kubikiri Bōchō to effectively hurt Samehada. If Kakashi can get Samehada out of Kisame's hands by way of swordsmanship & sharingan prediction Kakashi could simply cut Kisame in two. Kisame can't use his chakra if he's dead right? I personally give Kakashi the advantage 7-3.

AniMeFaN
03-20-2011, 02:05 AM
i find it funny that AMA has Kisame winning 90% of the time and Vengeance has Kakashi winning 70% of the time, thats such a big difference. just wanted to say that.

kael03
03-20-2011, 02:24 AM
People keep mentioning chakra as if that is the ultimate deciding factor in every fight. Kakashi wielding Kubikiri Bōchō is to allow for a sword fight situation & also allows Kakashi to conserve his chakra. Kakashi has already shown the ability to copy Kisame's jutsu in an instant to cancel out his attacks. This implies that Kakashi has at the very least a speed advantage when it comes to actually executing jutsu. Kisame's chakra pool was enhanced during Kirabi's fight because he was absorbing Kirabi's chakra as well. Really though the amount of chakra Kisame has shouldn't really matter if he doesn't have time to utilize it properly. In close range combat Kubikiri Bōchō would allow Kakashi to attack without a real fear of getting chakra absorbed since Kubikiri Bōchō is simply a metal blade. There is no actual chakra for Samehada to absorb which would allow Kubikiri Bōchō to effectively hurt Samehada. If Kakashi can get Samehada out of Kisame's hands by way of swordsmanship & sharingan prediction Kakashi could simply cut Kisame in two. Kisame can't use his chakra if he's dead right? I personally give Kakashi the advantage 7-3.

The reason I said Kisame isn't based on chakra alone. Kakashi has shit for stamina and Kisame can last a lot longer in a fight against Kakashi.

kael03
03-20-2011, 02:28 AM
LOL this fight is just lulzy. Nartuo wins this hands down, for one simple reason. Sakura fails at everything she does. Giving her a sword won't change that.

I made that fight as a joke, clearly. And Sakura wouldn't have to do anything to win because Naruto's too stupid to use the swords at all without either castrating or killing himself.

ninjalostboy95
03-20-2011, 11:17 AM
he said itachi vs kakashi in a specific space/time, that time being during the kyuubi attack in which itachi was 6-7 and kakashi was 14-15

okay let's see

Acadamy grad...Itachi 6...Kakashi 5

Chunin promo...itachi 10 Kakashi 6

Jonin promo...Itachi ?? Kakashi 13



At the time of the 9 tail attack Kakashi was 14-15 & a Jonin, Itachi was 6 or 7.

Those are the fight. The unbolded is not part of the list. Again, Learn2read.

@Neo: You do realize that the reason we bypass those things is to avoid the emotional stuff and to base it only on their abilities, right? I mean Naruto against Sakura would be Sakura winning because he luvs her. These battles are all inductive arguments and in the strictest sense, all inductive arguments are fallacious but that doesn't mean it can't happen. It's just that some arguments are more possible than others in which we call strong arguments and the more unlikely ones are weak arguments.

AOTKorby
03-20-2011, 11:19 AM
I made that fight as a joke, clearly. And Sakura wouldn't have to do anything to win because Naruto's too stupid to use the swords at all without either castrating or killing himself.

But what if Naruto was so stupid as to be unable to realize that they were swords to begin with? Then he wouldn't try to use them in a retarded fashion, and he'd have the edge.

AniMeFaN
03-20-2011, 12:06 PM
Originally Posted by jericho Uzimaki
okay let's see

Acadamy grad...Itachi 6...Kakashi 5

Chunin promo...itachi 10 Kakashi 6

Jonin promo...Itachi ?? Kakashi 13



At the time of the 9 tail attack Kakashi was 14-15 & a Jonin, Itachi was 6 or 7.

Those are the fight. The unbolded is not part of the list. Again, Learn2read..


are you mentally retarded or something, dont leave out 2/3 of the post out and bold a part you choose. post the entire thing so people can see your stupidity. he was showing that they were both geniuses and listing ranks achieved by age, then he named a specific space/time which was when the kyuubi attacked and asked who would win at that time.


I am going to do something that may be unique.
I am going to pit ninja vs. ninja in the SAME space & time.

Kakashi vs. Itachi.

As we know Itachi was a GENIUS of Minato caliber far as Uchiha goes.
But so IS Kakashi, even if some forget.

okay let's see

Acadamy grad...Itachi 6...Kakashi 5

Chunin promo...itachi 10 Kakashi 6

Jonin promo...Itachi ?? Kakashi 13



At the time of the 9 tail attack Kakashi was 14-15 & a Jonin, Itachi was 6 or 7.


Now i ask you good people:

Kakashi vs. Itachi THEN!

jericho Uzimaki
03-20-2011, 12:56 PM
Hmmm....Kakashi ALSO minimized the hand seals for CHIDORI. remember when he fought Zabuza the first time? Now he just does it, with NO hand signs.

So i think that Kakashi vs. Kisame would STILL result in KISAME winning. Why?

Samehada, nuff said.

Kakashi conserving chakra means nothing when it's drained.



NEW fight(corrected fight actually)


I apologize for messing this up the first time

this may be better(more cleaar)

Kakshi vs Itachi....several fights

1. after both grad from Academy

2. after both became chunin

3.when Both were in ANBU

now the problem with that is they brag about itachi being Anbu at what 13? That's fine but IF you check the time line before he killed the clan, then Kakashi would be HIS
Captain.

I think that since Kakashi has become a reg jonin again is when he was having the chakra problems w/ the sharinghan. because when he was ANBU he had a different mission alignment. he wasn't front line he was stealth and quick.

So anyway by the time Itachi got into the ANBU Kakashi was ALREADY captain. Please STOP sleeping on Kakashi's Badassness(yeah i made up a word)

my opinion
1. itachi (why? Kakashi has NO sharinghan)
2.Chunin, i would say close BUT Itachi (sharinghan advantage again)
3.Kakashi (why? Kakashi has more experience w/ Sharinghan and therefore can fight against one. Plus he has copied plenty jutsu by then. Itachi DOESN'T have MS then remember he got it round massacre time)

the only reason Kakashi was cautious fighting him was MS the first time and second time chakra. IF his name was Kakashi Uchiha HE would be the BEST of the clan!!!

kael03
03-20-2011, 01:32 PM
are you mentally retarded or something, dont leave out 2/3 of the post out and bold a part you choose. post the entire thing so people can see your stupidity. he was showing that they were both geniuses and listing ranks achieved by age, then he named a specific space/time which was when the kyuubi attacked and asked who would win at that time.

NEW fight(corrected fight actually)

I apologize for messing this up the first time

this may be better(more cleaar)

Kakshi vs Itachi....several fights

1. after both grad from Academy

2. after both became chunin

3.when Both were in ANBU

Now, animefan, how about you shut the hell up?

Vengeance
03-20-2011, 01:46 PM
Hmmm....Kakashi ALSO minimized the hand seals for CHIDORI. remember when he fought Zabuza the first time? Now he just does it, with NO hand signs.

So i think that Kakashi vs. Kisame would STILL result in KISAME winning. Why?

Samehada, nuff said.

Kakashi conserving chakra means nothing when it's drained.
LMAO completely missed the point of Kakashi using Kubikiri Bōchō which by the way is an ideal counter to Samehada's abilities.

AniMeFaN
03-20-2011, 01:47 PM
Now, animefan, how about you shut the hell up?

how about you are an idiot and no, i can only go by what was written, not what was meant, he clearly said in the same space/time and gave one instance which was during the kyuubi fight so you stfu.

ninjalostboy95
03-20-2011, 01:49 PM
are you mentally retarded or something, dont leave out 2/3 of the post out and bold a part you choose. Post the entire thing so people can see your stupidity.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought bolding was meant to point out specific parts of a post. But I'm mentally retarded so I can't really see how there's a difference in the art of BOLDING. Everyone is seeing my stupidity too so +1 for you. Damn, you're on a roll today.

he was showing that they were both geniuses and listing ranks achieved by age, then he named a specific space/time which was when the kyuubi attacked and asked who would win at that time.

ROFLMAO you're retarded. Obviously he wasn't asking about a fight during the Kyuubi incident because I'm pretty sure 6-7 year old Itachi would obviously lose to 14-15 year old Kakashi.

kael03
03-20-2011, 01:51 PM
how about you are an idiot and no, i can only go by what was written, not what was meant, he clearly said in the same space/time and gave one instance which was during the kyuubi fight so you stfu.

You're the only one to have missed it. He was just listing how old they were during the kyuubi attack. Everyone else knew that wasn't a part of it. Everyone else also knew that it would be pointless to have the fight then because Kakashi would've crushed Itachi. Itachi didn't have the sharingan, hadn't entered the academy, had no combat experience. Kakashi had the sharingan for a number of months, had graduated from the academy 7 years before, and had 7 years of combat experience.

Again, for that thick skull of yours and jericho clarified it, he was listing the ages of their accomplishments and then the fight would be between the two from those particular accomplishments. The kyuubi attack had nothing to do with it and I'm not entirely sure why JU added it.

Vengeance
03-20-2011, 01:51 PM
Just to add on; both times Kisame lost to Gai it wasn't because he ran out of chakra but rather because Gai simply defeated Kisame with overwhelming force. The one time Kakashi is pitted against Kisame he is shown to have an obvious advantage over him skill wise. It's funny how one sided people make this fight out to be.

k-lai
03-20-2011, 01:53 PM
LMAO completely missed the point of Kakashi using Kubikiri Bōchō which by the way is an ideal counter to Samehada's abilities.

What the heck is dat?

chidoriQ
03-20-2011, 01:53 PM
guys guys guys this is a naruto forum not a battle forum so you two shut up and get some narutomania in you, savi

kael03
03-20-2011, 01:56 PM
What the heck is dat?

The Decapitating Knife. That's the Japanese translation.

AniMeFaN
03-20-2011, 02:04 PM
Oh I'm sorry, I thought bolding was meant to point out specific parts of a post. But I'm mentally retarded so I can't really see how there's a difference in the art of BOLDING. Everyone is seeing my stupidity too so +1 for you. Damn, you're on a roll today..

go ahead and bold all you want but dont take it out of context


ROFLMAO you're retarded. Obviously he wasn't asking about a fight during the Kyuubi incident because I'm pretty sure 6-7 year old Itachi would obviously lose to 14-15 year old Kakashi.

yea its crazy to think about 14-15 year old kakashi vs 6-7 year old itachi but its not crazy to think about 10 year old itachi vs 6 year old kakashi, common now.

You're the only one to have missed it. He was just listing how old they were during the kyuubi attack. Everyone else knew that wasn't a part of it. Everyone else also knew that it would be pointless to have the fight then because Kakashi would've crushed Itachi. Itachi didn't have the sharingan, hadn't entered the academy, had no combat experience. Kakashi had the sharingan for a number of months, had graduated from the academy 7 years before, and had 7 years of combat experience..

he thought he was 6-7 meaning he graduated already and kakashi was 14-15, you can see he posted the ages regardless of whta they actually were thats what he thought, why would he mention a fight in the same space/time and give only one instance which was them during the kyyubi fight and literally the next thing he says after listing that space/time was itachi vs kakashi THEN.

Again, for that thick skull of yours and jericho clarified it, he was listing the ages of their accomplishments and then the fight would be between the two from those particular accomplishments. The kyuubi attack had nothing to do with it and I'm not entirely sure why JU added it.


that doesnt make any sense, he posted one instance of the same space/time which was what his post was about, that instance was the kyyubi incident which he gave ages for both of them and literally the next thing he said was itachi vs kakashi then. what he wrote had a meaning whether thats what he meant or not, if its not what he meant then he wrote it wrong.

chidoriQ
03-20-2011, 02:04 PM
yeah yeah bookworm

kael03
03-20-2011, 02:15 PM
he thought he was 6-7 meaning he graduated already and kakashi was 14-15, you can see he posted the ages regardless of whta they actually were thats what he thought, why would he mention a fight in the same space/time and give only one instance which was them during the kyyubi fight and literally the next thing he says after listing that space/time was itachi vs kakashi THEN.

It's JU, I gave up trying to figure out the method behind his madness long ago. His posts are filled with ramblings and nonsense, you just have to be smart enough to read past them. You, apparently, are not.

I'll say it again, having Kakashi and Itachi from the time of the Kyuubi attack fight makes no sense because clearly Kakashi has every single advantage and would crush Itachi with little effort. THAT is how I determined the part about their relative ages when the Kyuubi attack occurred wasn't a part of the battle scenario.

As for the capitalized "then", again, JU's posts are usually filled with nonsense, ramblings, spelling and grammar errors. He may have meant something along the lines of "now then, Kakashi vs Itachi...FIGHT!"

AOTKorby
03-20-2011, 02:24 PM
yeah yeah bookworm

What's this? Another idiot who is trying to compensate for a lack of knowledge and intelligence with accusations of "trying too hard", "overanalyzing", and "you have no life"?

jericho Uzimaki
03-20-2011, 02:29 PM
It's JU, I gave up trying to figure out the method behind his madness long ago. His posts are filled with ramblings and nonsense, you just have to be smart enough to read past them. You, apparently, are not.
As for the capitalized "then", again, JU's posts are usually filled with nonsense, ramblings, spelling and grammar errors. He may have meant something along the lines of "now then, Kakashi vs Itachi...FIGHT!"



LOL!

you said that as if you knew me personally.

I mean that as a compliment, you nailed me exactly.

lol. good times.

Usually when i ramble, misspell, etc. it is because i am in a hurry. Although i am known for writing slower than i think...lol. If you know what i mean.

jericho Uzimaki
03-20-2011, 02:36 PM
LMAO completely missed the point of Kakashi using Kubikiri Bōchō which by the way is an ideal counter to Samehada's abilities.

Look Okay Kakashi has a sword so what?

Kisame has a shit load of chakra and powerful jutsu.

THANKS to SAMEHADA!!!

did not miss the point of him using a damn sword instead of just sharinghan.

Look everyone can't be Guy and NOT use jutsu to counter jutsu. (he even had to pull out his ultimate jutsu counter)

Sword vs. sword is NOT what Kisame uses Samehada for. he uses it to get chakra to merge and to shred. Not as a main weapon

Kakashi would still not outlast Kisame. I am sorry but Kisame fought HIS match, GUY. Kakashi is NOT his match. w/ or w/o a sword.

Vengeance
03-20-2011, 03:06 PM
guys guys guys this is a naruto forum not a battle forum so you two shut up and get some narutomania in you, savi
Dude this is the vs section & is very much the battle section of the forum. Ether get with the program or GTFO.

Kakashi would still not outlast Kisame. I am sorry but Kisame fought HIS match, GUY. Kakashi is NOT his match. w/ or w/o a sword.
Who said anything about outlasting? I said Kakashi would simply kill Kisame with his superior skill which would make the monster chakra pool completely irrelevant.

AOTKorby
03-20-2011, 03:30 PM
Kakashi's "greater skill" is not in wielding the weapon he's been given for the sake of the matchup. Kisame trained his whole life with the sword, Kakashi barely ever uses one. His greatest skill is in his Ninjutsu, and Kisame's entire schtick is making Ninjutsu fucking useless. Kakashi has to avoid being overwhelmed by Kisame's power and the scale of Kisame's attacks while being unable to effectively use most of his own best abilities. That doesn't really sound like an edge.

chidoriQ
03-20-2011, 03:50 PM
Dude this is the vs section & is very much the battle section of the forum. Ether get with the program or GTFO.

oo so you want a piece of me.you want some come get some

Vengeance
03-20-2011, 03:55 PM
Kakashi's "greater skill" is not in wielding the weapon he's been given for the sake of the matchup. Kisame trained his whole life with the sword, Kakashi barely ever uses one.
Kakashi fought Zabuza 3 times now with sharingan active right? You do realize that he should be able to mimic Zabuza's sword technique by now because of the sharingan right? He can also mimic Kisame's movement on the fly as well to gain even more experience.

His greatest skill is in his Ninjutsu, and Kisame's entire schtick is making Ninjutsu fucking useless.
How so when Kakashi can execute ninjutsu faster than Kisame & copy his technique almost instantly? Kakashi's also a raton user & as we've seen in the past lightning flows quite easily through water. I mean if you don't want to factor in taijutsu fighting with swords.

Kakashi has to avoid being overwhelmed by Kisame's power and the scale of Kisame's attacks while being unable to effectively use most of his own best abilities.
How is that true when Kakashi has shown the ability to completely nullify Kisame's ninjutsu with a clone?

That doesn't really sound like an edge.
They're both Suuton users while Kakashi can also use Raton & doton. Kakashi can mimic Kisame's own techniques, use Raton to channel lightning through Kisame's water, use doton to block overwhelming suuton (doton beats suuton), while bringing the fight into close range where his sharingan & sword play can hand him a physical victory by way of decapitation.

kael03
03-20-2011, 04:06 PM
oo so you want a piece of me.you want some come get some

Oh look! An internet tough guy. What do you think you could possibly do to anyone? That's if we decide to take you seriously (protip: we don't).

AOTKorby
03-20-2011, 04:41 PM
Kakashi fought Zabuza 3 times now with sharingan active right? You do realize that he should be able to mimic Zabuza's sword technique by now because of the sharingan right? He can also mimic Kisame's movement on the fly as well to gain even more experience.

It's not enough just to use a sharingan mimicry of Zabuza's technique. Just in terms of wielding the sword, let's compare Kakashi to other notable "giant-ass sword" wielders in the series. Zabuza and Kisame are way more built and thus way more suited to wielding their giant-ass swords than Kakashi ever would be, and Suigetsu can control the bulk of his body at will. Comparing to another manga, it's like handing the Dragon Slayer to Serpico in Berserk. Sure, the guy's a genius who can figure out Guts' entire strategy. Doesn't mean he could lift the damn sword and use it. Kakashi doesn't know the Decapitating Carving Knife the way a true wielder would. To use the weapon to its fullest would require muscle memory and exact knowledge of its limitations. Neither of which Kakashi is going to have.

How so when Kakashi can execute ninjutsu faster than Kisame & copy his technique almost instantly? Kakashi's also a raton user & as we've seen in the past lightning flows quite easily through water. I mean if you don't want to factor in taijutsu fighting with swords.

Chakra-eating sword and chakra-eating ninjutsu. The former can't be copied, the latter is of such huge scale that Kakashi would exhaust himself trying to use it. That's what I meant by having a schtick of nullifying ninjutsu.

How is that true when Kakashi has shown the ability to completely nullify Kisame's ninjutsu with a clone?

Kisame's Suitons were nowhere near the scale in Part I as they were in Part II. He was pretty much making the ocean his bitch in Part II. A clone is sure as hell not going to "completely nullify" that.

They're both Suuton users while Kakashi can also use Raton & doton. Kakashi can mimic Kisame's own techniques, use Raton to channel lightning through Kisame's water, use doton to block overwhelming suuton (doton beats suuton), while bringing the fight into close range where his sharingan & sword play can hand him a physical victory by way of decapitation.

Kisame's Suiton >>>>>>> Kakashi's Suiton, Kakashi's Doton are not on the level with his Suiton and Raiton (he's used the go underground technique and made a smaller version of the rock wall Hiruzen made), and Kakashi's ninjutsu as a whole are vulnerable to being absorbed by Samehada or the Giant Shark Missile shit. Meanwhile in Taijutsu, Kakashi has to deal with Kisame's superhuman physical abilities, combining with Samehada, and superior skill with the sword with only his Sharingan and a rudimentary mimicry of Zabuza's strategy to work with.

I don't think Kakashi is going to get wrecked, but he's sure as shit not going to walk all over Kisame.

chidoriQ
03-20-2011, 05:16 PM
Oh look! An internet tough guy. What do you think you could possibly do to anyone? That's if we decide to take you seriously (protip: we don't).

havent you had enough already.you should know better than to argue over a stupid sentence.let bygones be bygones

kael03
03-20-2011, 05:19 PM
havent you had enough already.

I'm bored.

you should know better than to argue over a stupid sentence.

You should know better than to threaten someone over the internet.

let bygones be bygones

What "bygones"? You told veng to "come get some", I called you an internet tough guy and no one takes you seriously. Where are the "bygones" there?

Also, spacing between sentences, as well as actual grammar, makes you look less like a retard.

Vengeance
03-20-2011, 05:21 PM
Fair enough Korby. I guess I should have waited until Kakashi actually has his rampage before posting this fight(So we could see his actual skill with the sword against other swordsmen). I will say one thing though. Kakashi was able to hold Kubikiri Bōchō with one hand which is an indicator that he can at least swing the sword. To be continued once the manga focuses on Kakashi again.

AOTKorby
03-20-2011, 05:25 PM
And so the wait continues...

BoyThisIsAwkward
03-20-2011, 05:36 PM
What about Itachi vs Nagato. Both in their prime.....

goldengod
03-20-2011, 06:10 PM
What about Itachi vs Nagato. Both in their prime.....
I hate these prime fights. Because we have little to no info about them in their prime. It's like saying 3rd hokage in his prime

ninjalostboy95
03-20-2011, 06:15 PM
Nagato would slaughter Itachi.

go ahead and bold all you want but dont take it out of context

Thanks for the advice but I already knew that. You really suck at this.


yea its crazy to think about 14-15 year old kakashi vs 6-7 year old itachi but its not crazy to think about 10 year old itachi vs 6 year old kakashi, common now.

Lolwut? Kakashi is twice his age during the Kyuubi attack and has feats that far surpass Itachi at that time. When Itachi was 10, he achieved a feat that Kakashi did at 6 so the fight would be fair since they were both at the age where they both achieved the same feat(Well, not really, Itachi had sharingan and Kakashi didn't.)

NeoKakarott023
03-20-2011, 06:35 PM
Nagato would slaughter Itachi.



Thanks for the advice but I already knew that. You really suck at this.




Lolwut? Kakashi is twice his age during the Kyuubi attack and has feats that far surpass Itachi at that time. When Itachi was 10, he achieved a feat that Kakashi did at 6 so the fight would be fair since they were both at the age where they both achieved the same feat(Well, not really, Itachi had sharingan and Kakashi didn't.)

Okay Naruto's the lead character, the star, Kishi was on the verge of overhaxxing Nagato, like Kubo did with Aizen, he actually did, but a wacked assed plot device and Rainbows, had him basically giving his life force away. He destroyed most of Konoha, and if he weren't specifically looking for Naruto, he'd a Nuked the bitch even earlier. Nagato's also the master of all ninjutsu, name one jutsu that Pein would actually need from Itachi to actually defeat him. Zero, he has what he needs, and sorry nothing Itachi has shown me could withstand Peins attacks. This is what I'm talking about, nothing in Itachi's arsenal says that he could equally even take out Konoha, honestly he couldn't do the damage to Konoha that Nagato/Pein did, thats faktz. And please nobody bring Itachi's lame version of the Amaretsu to the table, Kishi shit on that jutsu by having less thans diffuse, or simply supress it. Since J-Man did it, it wouldn't shock me that someone in Konoha coulda did the same thing, bingo bango, end of Itachi's invasion. Additionally he dosen't have the luck of extra bodies that actually fight, and take the damage for him. Think it, until the opponent actually gets to Nagato, all he's doing is using chakra, not actually physically doing thing himself correct?

k-lai
03-20-2011, 06:55 PM
I'm bored.



You should know better than to threaten someone over the internet.



What "bygones"? You told veng to "come get some", I called you an internet tough guy and no one takes you seriously. Where are the "bygones" there?

Also, spacing between sentences, as well as actual grammar, makes you look less like a retard.

Thanks Kael n co. for putting some sense into my kid bro. He isn't man enough to face n yet goes threatening people online

ninjalostboy95
03-20-2011, 07:01 PM
Thanks Kael n co. for putting some sense into my kid bro. He isn't man enough to face n yet goes threatening people online

You're just asking to get flamed. Seriously.

k-lai
03-20-2011, 07:05 PM
guess i'd better go for cover

AniMeFaN
03-20-2011, 07:53 PM
.Thanks for the advice but I already knew that. You really suck at this.

you already knew yet you did it anyway



.Lolwut? Kakashi is twice his age during the Kyuubi attack and has feats that far surpass Itachi at that time. When Itachi was 10, he achieved a feat that Kakashi did at 6 so the fight would be fair since they were both at the age where they both achieved the same feat(Well, not really, Itachi had sharingan and Kakashi didn't.)

im pretty sure a 14-15 year old kakashi would not beat a 6-7 year old itachi the same way a 10 year old itachi would beat a 6 year old kakashi regardless of ranks, itachi had mastered the sharingan they said at 8, was a chuunin at 10, at 11 he was an anbu and had the mangekeyo. 11 year old itachi would have probably beaten kakashi at the beggining of part 1 so i think its safe to say a year earlier he would have wiped the floor with kakashi at 6

kael03
03-20-2011, 08:02 PM
im pretty sure a 14-15 year old kakashi would not beat a 6-7 year old itachi the same way a 10 year old itachi would beat a 6 year old kakashi regardless of ranks

I'm pretty sure he would. Kakashi: 7 years combat experience and several months training with the sharingan. Itachi: no combat experience and no training with the sharingan at the time of the Kyuubi attack or even shortly after.

itachi had mastered the sharingan they said at 8

He didn't gain it until he was 7, 2 years after the time frame you're desperately trying to use.

was a chuunin at 10,

Kakashi was a chuunin at 6, your argument just died.

at 11 he was an anbu and had the mangekeyo.

He was 13 when he was in ANBU and when he obtained the mangekyo. If you're going to argue at least get your facts straight.

11 year old itachi would have probably beaten kakashi at the beggining of part 1

Doubt it.

so i think its safe to say a year earlier he would have wiped the floor with kakashi at 6

How do you figure? He didn't have the sharingan, he just entered the academy so he didn't have any combat experience. Kakashi, by the time Itachi even awakened his sharingan, had experience with his own sharingan, and had several years of combat experience.

tl;dr: You're an idiot and need to stop this crap now.

goldengod
03-20-2011, 08:05 PM
I'm pretty sure he would. Kakashi: 7 years combat experience and several months training with the sharingan. Itachi: no combat experience and no training with the sharingan at the time of the Kyuubi attack or even shortly after.



He didn't gain it until he was 7, 2 years after the time frame you're desperately trying to use.



Kakashi was a chuunin at 6, your argument just died.



He was 13 when he was in ANBU and when he obtained the mangekyo. If you're going to argue at least get your facts straight.



Doubt it.



How do you figure? He didn't have the sharingan, he just entered the academy so he didn't have any combat experience. Kakashi, by the time Itachi even awakened his sharingan, had experience with his own sharingan, and had several years of combat experience.

tl;dr: You're an idiot and need to stop this crap now.
You could easily stop by just ignoring his posts

kael03
03-20-2011, 08:06 PM
You could easily stop by just ignoring his posts

I could, but he would never learn.

AniMeFaN
03-20-2011, 08:12 PM
I'm pretty sure he would. Kakashi: 7 years combat experience and several months training with the sharingan. Itachi: no combat experience and no training with the sharingan at the time of the Kyuubi attack or even shortly after..

well were using age 6-7 and 14-15, slightly older then kyuubi incident according to you, im not saying kakashi wouldnt win convincingly, i just think a 10 year old itachi would defeat a 6 year old kakashi quicker/easier then a 14-15 year old kakashi vs a 6-7 year old itachi.



He didn't gain it until he was 7, 2 years after the time frame you're desperately trying to use...

we will say a few months to a year since the age is 6-7



Kakashi was a chuunin at 6, your argument just died....

not sure what arguement died when i clearly said itachi was a chuunin at 10, i know kakashi was at 6.


He was 13 when he was in ANBU and when he obtained the mangekyo. If you're going to argue at least get your facts straight.

he was 11 when he was in anbu and gained the mangekeyo, he was a anbu captain at 13



How do you figure? He didn't have the sharingan, he just entered the academy so he didn't have any combat experience. Kakashi, by the time Itachi even awakened his sharingan, had experience with his own sharingan, and had several years of combat experience.

we are using age 6-7 and 14-15 for the billionth time, he graduated the academy by then, so its a genin itachi vs a new jonin kakashi and i was overly impressed with what i saw from kakashi in kakashi gaiden which was the day he became a jounin. he seemed no stronger then sasuke in his chuunin fight against gaara so i dont think he would mop the floor with a genin itachi as easily as a 10 year old itachi would to a 6 year old kakashi

AniMeFaN
03-20-2011, 08:13 PM
You could easily stop by just ignoring his posts

you could jsut not post in the thread unless its about an actual fight with your point of view

kael03
03-20-2011, 08:22 PM
well were using age 6-7 and 14-15, slightly older then kyuubi incident according to you, im not saying kakashi wouldnt win convincingly, i just think a 10 year old itachi would defeat a 6 year old kakashi quicker/easier then a 14-15 year old kakashi vs a 6-7 year old itachi.

This counter-argument makes no sense and is physically impossible. Moving on.


we will say a few months to a year since the age is 6-7

Still doesn't change the fact that Kakashi holds every advantage over Itachi when he was that age.



not sure what arguement died when i clearly said itachi was a chuunin at 10, i know kakashi was at 6.

The argument that Itachi was a chuunin at a young age when kakashi was even younger.


he was 11 when he was in anbu and gained the mangekeyo, he was a anbu captain at 13

He gained the Mangekyo 5 years before the start of the series, when he was 17-18. That would make him about 13, which is the same time he made Captain in the ANBU. He didn't join ANBU until shortly before killing Shisui, as he had said he wouldn't go on a mission that would place him in ANBU so he could go to Sasuke's welcoming ceremony to the academy.


we are using age 6-7 and 14-15 for the billionth time,

No we are not. You are to make your argument credible.

he graduated the academy by then, so its a genin itachi vs a new jonin kakashi

So you want to believe the genin, with no combat experience or the sharingan, could fight evenly with the jonin who had 7 years combat experience and several months experience with the sharingan? What the fuck are you smoking.

and i was overly impressed with what i saw from kakashi in kakashi gaiden which was the day he became a jounin.

Ok?

he seemed no stronger then sasuke in his chuunin fight against gaara

Right. Having years experience in combat compared to a kid that had graduated the academy 5 months earlier makes no difference whatsoever.

so i dont think he would mop the floor with a genin itachi as easily as a 10 year old itachi would to a 6 year old kakashi

I think you are truly retarded if you think a freshly made genin with no war experience would put up any kind of fight against a veteran jounin.

AniMeFaN
03-20-2011, 08:37 PM
This counter-argument makes no sense and is physically impossible. Moving on..

whats counter arguement, whats physically impossible, what are you talking about.


Still doesn't change the fact that Kakashi holds every advantage over Itachi when he was that age.

im not saying he wont win, im saying it wouldnt be as easy as itachi at 10 vs kakashi at 6



The argument that Itachi was a chuunin at a young age when kakashi was even younger...


wtf are you talking about, whos argueing about that, itachi was a chuunin at 10 and kakashi at 6, whos argueing



He gained the Mangekyo 5 years before the start of the series, when he was 17-18. That would make him about 13, which is the same time he made Captain in the ANBU. He didn't join ANBU until shortly before killing Shisui, as he had said he wouldn't go on a mission that would place him in ANBU so he could go to Sasuke's welcoming ceremony to the academy.

he gained the mangekeyo at 11 the same age he entered anbu.


No we are not. You are to make your argument credible..

everyone but you is using that age.

So you want to believe the genin, with no combat experience or the sharingan, could fight evenly with the jonin who had 7 years combat experience and several months experience with the sharingan? What the fuck are you smoking...

who said evenely, where do you come up with this stuff, you just put words in my mouth to make you sound right, i clearly said i dont think a 14-15 year old kakashi would beat a 6-7 year old itachi as easily as a 10 year old itachi against a 6 year old kakashi although i still beleive he would win convincingly



I think you are truly retarded if you think a freshly made genin with no war experience would put up any kind of fight against a veteran jounin.

he wasnt a veteran, he was new to the rank of jounin and he wasnt even overly impressive in kakashi gaiden which he was a joinin in, he looked on the level of sasuke in the chuunin exame vs gaara so i dont think again that he would beat a genin itachi as easily as a 10 year old itachi would a 6 year old kakashi. itachi at 11 would have probabaly beat kakashi in the beginning or part 1

kael03
03-20-2011, 08:55 PM
whats counter arguement, whats physically impossible, what are you talking about.

This counterargument:

well were using age 6-7 and 14-15, slightly older then kyuubi incident according to you, im not saying kakashi wouldnt win convincingly, i just think a 10 year old itachi would defeat a 6 year old kakashi quicker/easier then a 14-15 year old kakashi vs a 6-7 year old itachi.

@Bold: That would be physically impossibly, you half-wit.


im not saying he wont win, im saying it wouldnt be as easy as itachi at 10 vs kakashi at 6

There you go again with "as easy". It would be easy for him to win at the ages you keep using. Kakashi, at 14, had 8 FUCKING YEARS of combat experience and was in a war. Itachi, at 6, had just graduated from the academy, didn't have his sharingan, and had ZERO FUCKING YEARS of combat experience. He was too young to have experienced the 3rd war.


he gained the mangekeyo at 11 the same age he entered anbu.

He gained the mangekyo 6 months after entering ANBU, which was when he made Captain. Shortly after he killed Shisui he slaughtered the rest of the clan. He wasn't 11, he was 12-13 when he gained the Mangekyo.


everyone but you is using that age.

You seem to be the only one using that age. Even Jericho said he wasn't using that age frame. Just when they made similar accomplishments.

who said evenely, where do you come up with this stuff, you just put words in my mouth to make you sound right, i clearly said i dont think a 14-15 year old kakashi would beat a 6-7 year old itachi as easily as a 10 year old itachi against a 6 year old kakashi although i still beleive he would win convincingly


That is what I'm talking about. It took Itachi 3 years to become a chuunin and Kakashi only 1 year. Also, in the time you're wanting, as I've said several times, Itachi had NO combat experience and Kakashi had 7 YEARS experience. You honestly think Itachi would put up any kind of fight at that time? You must be profoundly retarded.


he wasnt a veteran, he was new to the rank of jounin

He had been a chuunin for 7 years. He was a veteran to missions and fighting and killing.

and he wasnt even overly impressive in kakashi gaiden which he was a joinin in,

...you JUST said that he looked overly impressive to you during the gaiden. Contradict yourself much?

he looked on the level of sasuke in the chuunin exame vs gaara

He had several years combat experience and you're comparing him to the emo brat that only fought Haku at that point?

so i dont think again that he would beat a genin itachi as easily as a 10 year old itachi would a 6 year old kakashi.

There you go again. You're fanboy lust for Itachi is showing at astonishing levels. How do you figure a freshly graduated genin, with no combat experience or sharingan, would put up any form of fight against a veteran Jounin, with 7+ years experience fighting in a WAR and had experience with his non-native sharingan?

itachi at 11 would have probabaly beat kakashi in the beginning or part 1

Um...no? He didn't have the Mangekyo until he was about 13 (no 11 like you keep claiming). He still didn't have the combat experience of Kakashi.

ninjalostboy95
03-20-2011, 08:55 PM
you already knew yet you did it anyway

I know you can't read but goddamn. I was saying I didn't do it.

im pretty sure a 14-15 year old kakashi would not beat a 6-7 year old itachi the same way a 10 year old itachi would beat a 6 year old kakashi regardless of ranks, itachi had mastered the sharingan they said at 8, was a chuunin at 10, at 11 he was an anbu and had the mangekeyo. 11 year old itachi would have probably beaten kakashi at the beggining of part 1 so i think its safe to say a year earlier he would have wiped the floor with kakashi at 6

LOLOLOL.

AOTKorby
03-20-2011, 09:03 PM
Going back and reading about this bullshit, yeah you're pretty much retarded AMFN.

Itachi gained the Mangekyou a few days before the Massacre from killing Shisui, and also became an ANBU captain at the same age: 13. Not 11, 13.

The time frame listed by JU (which is among the dumbest matchups I've ever seen) is Itachi v Kakashi as they were when the Kyuubi attacked. Itachi was not even in the academy yet. Kakashi was a Jounin. Itachi was 4-5, most likely 5 at that time. You are arbitrarily making shit up to try to prove your point.

What the fuck is the point of your "oh yeah well Chuunin level Itachi could beat Academy level Kakashi more easily than vice versa" argument anyway? You're proving jack shit. Not-Even-Academy-student, too young for Sharingan Itachi v Jounin, Sharingan-wielding Kakashi has a 0% chance of being even slightly in Itachi's favor.

Kakashi was "new to the rank of jounin" before he got the SG. That was months before the Kyuubi attack. By the time of the attack, he had spent several months fighting in a goddamn war as a jounin. And you're comparing him to a 5-year old. Just stop.

AniMeFaN
03-20-2011, 09:19 PM
@Bold: That would be physically impossibly, you half-wit..

its also physically impossible for half the fights in this thread you half wit, doesnt mean we cant discuss who would win. youre the one who responded to it anyway, i only responded to the one that was physically possible at first


There you go again with "as easy". It would be easy for him to win at the ages you keep using. Kakashi, at 14, had 8 FUCKING YEARS of combat experience and was in a war. Itachi, at 6, had just graduated from the academy, didn't have his sharingan, and had ZERO FUCKING YEARS of combat experience. He was too young to have experienced the 3rd war...

soooo what, in kakashi gaiden he looked to be on the level of sasuke during the chuunin fight with gaara and he was a jounin then. obito was a damn chuunin. ranks were different then.




He gained the mangekyo 6 months after entering ANBU, which was when he made Captain. Shortly after he killed Shisui he slaughtered the rest of the clan. He wasn't 11, he was 12-13 when he gained the Mangekyo.

if he was 10 when he became a chuunin then he was 11 when he entered anbu and awakened the mangekeyo


You seem to be the only one using that age. Even Jericho said he wasn't using that age frame. Just when they made similar accomplishments..

look at the arguement i was having before you stepped in, it was using those ages, the ages mentioned by jericho.


That is what I'm talking about. It took Itachi 3 years to become a chuunin and Kakashi only 1 year. Also, in the time you're wanting, as I've said several times, Itachi had NO combat experience and Kakashi had 7 YEARS experience. You honestly think Itachi would put up any kind of fight at that time? You must be profoundly retarded...

im actually basing it on what was shown in the manga, all you keep saying is kakashi had 7 years experience and itachi was just out of the academy. i get that, im not saying itachi would win, im saying he would put up more of a fight then a 6 year old kakashi against a 10 year old itachi. kakashi as a jounin in kakashi gaiden wasnt even impressive,



..you JUST said that he looked overly impressive to you during the gaiden. Contradict yourself much?...

it was a typo, you would know i meant he wasnt overly impressive if you actually read the whole thing





..There you go again. You're fanboy lust for Itachi is showing at astonishing levels. How do you figure a freshly graduated genin, with no combat experience or sharingan, would put up any form of fight against a veteran Jounin, with 7+ years experience fighting in a WAR and had experience with his non-native sharingan?

because he wasnt impressive as a jounin at 13 in kakashi gaiden and itachi was at the age of a 11 a beast, in anbu with the mangekeyo. so yea i would say 1 year earlier at 10 itachi would have killed a 6 year old kakashi quicker then a 14-15 year old kakashi would a 6-7 year itachi



..Um...no? He didn't have the Mangekyo until he was about 13 (no 11 like you keep claiming). He still didn't have the combat experience of Kakashi.

it was 11

AniMeFaN
03-20-2011, 09:30 PM
The time frame listed by JU (which is among the dumbest matchups I've ever seen) is Itachi v Kakashi as they were when the Kyuubi attacked. Itachi was not even in the academy yet. Kakashi was a Jounin. Itachi was 4-5, most likely 5 at that time. You are arbitrarily making shit up to try to prove your point..

he thought that kakashi was 14-15 and itachi was 6-7 so its a little different as itachi is a genin

What the fuck is the point of your "oh yeah well Chuunin level Itachi could beat Academy level Kakashi more easily than vice versa" argument anyway? You're proving jack shit. Not-Even-Academy-student, too young for Sharingan Itachi v Jounin, Sharingan-wielding Kakashi has a 0% chance of being even slightly in Itachi's favor...

it was brought up because nlb laughed at the fight of 14-15 year old kakashi vs 6-7 year old itachi and said it should even be discussed but discussed 10 year old itachi vs 6 year old kakashi, i merely stated i thought that a 10 year old itachi would beat a 6 year old kakashi easier.

kael03
03-20-2011, 09:45 PM
Holy fuck, I can't believe how stupid you are. Itachi didn't gain the Mangekyo until AFTER he became an ANBU captain. He was ANBU for 6 months when the clan told Shisui to watch him. You know how I know this? He was 13 when he killed the rest of the clan, that was shortly after he awakened his Mangekyo.

AniMeFaN
03-20-2011, 09:49 PM
Holy fuck, I can't believe how stupid you are. Itachi didn't gain the Mangekyo until AFTER he became an ANBU captain. He was ANBU for 6 months when the clan told Shisui to watch him. You know how I know this? He was 13 when he killed the rest of the clan, that was shortly after he awakened his Mangekyo.

w.e, im pretty sure from the manga i got 11-12. everything else you said was stupid, i just got an age wrong.

ask me anything
03-20-2011, 09:51 PM
Holy shit at the faggotry in this thread.

@Animefan- just stop dude. Your making retarded claims that you can't back up. Seriously.

Databook says Itachi was 13 when he became an ANBU captain. This is an indisputable fact. We know from the manga that he unlocked his Sharigan shortly before he killed the clan, which wasn't too long after he joined the ANBU. This is another indisputable fact.

I don't know where your getting this crazy idea that he was 11 or whatever, but it's wrong.


13 13 13 13 13 13 13....I need a bigger font.

Tmoore
03-20-2011, 09:59 PM
did u just compare kakashi when he first became a jounin to sasuke during the chunin exam arc? first off sasuke doesnt even compare because how many justu has sasuke invented? none dont flame me but we all know kakashi wipes the floor with sasuke up until now cuz we dont know what ems does

AniMeFaN
03-20-2011, 10:04 PM
he was 10 when he became a chuunin, 6 months later he had the mission to get him into anbu

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/220/15
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/220/16
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/220/17
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/220/18
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/221/10
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/221/11
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/221/12
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/221/13
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/221/14
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/221/15

AniMeFaN
03-20-2011, 10:05 PM
did u just compare kakashi when he first became a jounin to sasuke during the chunin exam arc? first off sasuke doesnt even compare because how many justu has sasuke invented?

i kind of remember him charging in and minato bailing him out, and him struggling in battles

AOTKorby
03-20-2011, 10:10 PM
i kind of remember him charging in and minato bailing him out, and him struggling in battles

Against teams of Jounin. As in a newly promoted Jounin against war veterans who ambushed him. One of whom was one of the most skilled jounin in Iwa, according to the DB.

Compare to "gets fucking floored by one member of the Sound Four in one punch" Sasuke.

EDIT: Also that translation was fucking terrible. "Am I unpleasant?" No you dumbshit, everyone and their mother knows the line is "Do you hate me?"

AniMeFaN
03-20-2011, 10:15 PM
he was 10 when he became a chuunin, 6 months later he had the mission to get him into anbu

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/220/15
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/220/16
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/220/17
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/220/18
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/221/10
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/221/11
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/221/12
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/221/13
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/221/14
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/221/15

anyone want to address this, ama, anyone

edit: how long is a semester at the academy, 6 months? a year? that seems to be the amount of time that passed from him joining anbu and gaining the mangekeyo

AOTKorby
03-20-2011, 10:24 PM
anyone want to address this, ama, anyone

Try reading other people's posts.

AniMeFaN
03-20-2011, 10:26 PM
Try reading other people's posts.

are you claiming the manga doesnt state half a year after becoming a chuunin he had the mission that got him into anbu

ask me anything
03-20-2011, 10:45 PM
anyone want to address this, ama, anyone

edit: how long is a semester at the academy, 6 months? a year? that seems to be the amount of time that passed from him joining anbu and gaining the mangekeyo

I see your point, but there's a discrepancy somewhere. It was also shown the uchiha massacre happened not to long after Itachi got his MS, and it is known Itachi was still a part of konoha at age 13. Databooks say this.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/peerless1/27816523456.jpg

So it wouldn't make sense for Itachi to get MS at 11 and for whatever reasons take 2 years to kill his clan. It's far more reasonable to assume the amount of time before that was longer than it seemed.

NeoKakarott023
03-21-2011, 10:44 AM
I've never actually seen in the manga where Itachi, or anyone says when specifically he unlocked MS, but it obviously couldn't have occurred before Shunsui's death, it wouldn't be physically possible, correct? We see him practicing it at some point, in the beginng right before the Massacre, thats about it.

stubborn_d0nkey
03-21-2011, 12:34 PM
^unless itachi used tsukuyomi to travel back in the past and give the past itachi ms before shisuis death

goldengod
03-21-2011, 01:06 PM
^unless itachi used tsukuyomi to travel back in the past and give the past itachi ms before shisuis death
It's the only logical theory

Amuro
03-21-2011, 02:15 PM
Madara vs Goku...

Vengeance
03-21-2011, 02:16 PM
Kakashi was 14 at the time of the Kyuubi attack which means he's had about one year of experience with the sharingan.

NeoKakarott023
03-21-2011, 02:48 PM
^unless itachi used tsukuyomi to travel back in the past and give the past itachi ms before shisuis death

This is in jest correct, Tsukyomi is a genjutsu that warps the victims imagination, the user isn't actually doing any time space stuff. Right?

Madara vs Goku...

Saiyans aren't discussed here, what would be the point? Son Goku at SS1 vs. Frieza is more than every Naruto character combined and doubled. He blew the little fuck and his jutsu, through the front part of our solar system into the sun. If you can name anybody that could withstand that in THIS manga, shoot away, otherwise try coming up with battles that are possible, and plausible to track, script, and or plan. Theres zero planning against ANY Saiyan, nothing in Naruto would even slow them down. Krillin would rape most of Konoha.

Amuro
03-21-2011, 02:55 PM
plz madara can "phase" through attacks and suck you in his eye. Im not even trolling. IMHO whos going to hit him. He can stay intangable for minutes. I cant remember how many, No DBZ character would know.

I figured they werent discussed. I just thought it would be interesting a lil. Better than kakashi (random age) vs itachi (random age)

NeoKakarott023
03-21-2011, 03:17 PM
plz madara can "phase" through attacks and suck you in his eye. Im not even trolling. IMHO whos going to hit him. He can stay intangable for minutes. I cant remember how many, No DBZ character would know.

I figured they werent discussed. I just thought it would be interesting a lil. Better than kakashi (random age) vs itachi (random age)

Okay DBZ character destroys the Earth, gets in a spaceship from Capsule Corp, and go to another planet, like Namek, or something else. Where's all of this T/S warping gonna take Madara? Sorry as far as I know the shinobi in Naruto still need air, I've seen Goku running through space (faster than Madara, I'd add). Believe what you will, but the Kyuubi couldn't even bee Gohans pet back then, he woulda got raeped, the sheer destruction levels are obivously different, Saiyans overhwelmingly more than most manga characters created. DB & DBZ was part of the genesis of manga, therefore to actually try to surpass those guys would take an attempt by an manga artist, not many have attempted, people have acutally scaled back a lot, to make it more believable. That was one of the problems with Dragon ball, the power levels were so high, they ran out of planets to destroy, notice planet, not Chuunin Exams, be serious... Madara, roflmao.

Amuro
03-21-2011, 03:21 PM
lol i see what your saying.

Dnt they mention something about Goku not being able to breathe in space? (on namek freezia vs goku.)

I see what your saying tho. I think on earth Goku would get sucked in the eye. After he misses his first punch.
Goku wouldnt destroy the earth. You know that..

ask me anything
03-21-2011, 05:36 PM
I think on earth Goku would get sucked in the eye. After he misses his first punch.


Apparently you've forgotten that Goku can use Instant Transmission to go anywhere he wants. He used it to go from the earth, to King Kai's planet, which is in otherworld. I believe otherworld is considered an alternate dimension (plane of existence, or whatever you want to call it). So yeah, Goku can dimensional shift his ass out of Madara's eye dimension thingy as much as he wants, and it uses almost no power to do so. What's Fagdara gonna do then?

superninja
03-21-2011, 05:41 PM
Madara vs Goku...

Madara can avoid dmg for 5 minutes and after that he would have to use Izanagi or teleport away. Goku's movement is much faster than Madara and he could probably constantly attack him for 5 minutes or more and win that way. However Goku might have pauses between his attacks wondering why he is not damaging Madara or using super powerful moves for nothing. If Madara can use his warping ability to transport Goku to black dimension, it would still make no difference since Goku can use instant transmition to teleport back. The only way I can think of for Madara to win is that Madara uses his warping jutsu to warp just a part of Goku's body and that way he breaks Goku in half.

Anyway I have a kewl vs:

Kakashi, Rock Lee, Chouji, Kiba and Akamaru, Juugo vs 6 paths of Pein

Kakashi and co have all the knowledge so they don't waste their precious specials. And the important thing - all of them (except for Kakashi) have power up modes. Rock Lee goes 5 gates, Chouji goes butterfly mode (gay), Kiba does fusion with Akamaru to transform into a giant two headed dog, Juugo goes CS2. How many Peins will they kill?

ask me anything
03-21-2011, 06:10 PM
Anyway I have a kewl vs:

Kakashi, Rock Lee, Chouji, Kiba and Akamaru, Juugo vs 6 paths of Pein

Kakashi and co have all the knowledge so they don't waste their precious specials. And the important thing - all of them (except for Kakashi) have power up modes. Rock Lee goes 5 gates, Chouji goes butterfly mode (gay), Kiba does fusion with Akamaru to transform into a giant two headed dog, Juugo goes CS2.

Pein wins this by a land slide. For one thing, you got to many physical powerhouses on the team and not enough specialists. All of those you mention besides kakashi depend on nothing more then physical attacks to take out opponents. This is dangerous since Deva could just use ST to blast everyone backwards in an instant. This might not knock then all out, but it would definitely hurt them. Kakashi and Choji's fight with Pein in the manga is proof of this.

The way all the Boss Frogs got pwned by ST is also proof that larger creatures are especially damaged by that technique. So if Kiba and Akamaru are fused together, they've get fucked over hardcore. Same thing applies for Choji if he's in giant mode.

Now lets give the guys the benefit of the doubt that they can survive the initial blast. You know the other Paths are going to already be in motion to deliver a follow up attack. Animal realms summons are way to much for Kiba&Akamaru to handle. I mean a 2 headed dog Vs. a 9 headed dog that can split apart, and attack in unison. C'mon, that too much for them to handle right there, even without any of the other half dozen Summons interfering.

Human path would be a problem for everybody, except kakashi. How would these guys punch or kick the guy without him touching them. Cause you know as soon as he touches them, they get their souls ripped out. Not to mention Human path was hyped up to be incredibly fast. Maybe not as fast as Lee at 5 gates, but fast enough that I doubt Lee would run circles around the guy.


How many Peins will they kill?

Zero

If you had more variety in the team that would be different. Kakashi was the only guy worth a damn. Lee is ok, but Gai is better. Chouji, Kiba, and Juugo are just, LOL.

NeoKakarott023
03-21-2011, 06:15 PM
Madara can avoid dmg for 5 minutes and after that he would have to use Izanagi or teleport away. Goku's movement is much faster than Madara and he could probably constantly attack him for 5 minutes or more and win that way. However Goku might have pauses between his attacks wondering why he is not damaging Madara or using super powerful moves for nothing. If Madara can use his warping ability to transport Goku to black dimension, it would still make no difference since Goku can use instant transmition to teleport back. The only way I can think of for Madara to win is that Madara uses his warping jutsu to warp just a part of Goku's body and that way he breaks Goku in half.

Anyway I have a kewl vs:

Kakashi, Rock Lee, Chouji, Kiba and Akamaru, Juugo vs 6 paths of Pein

Kakashi and co have all the knowledge so they don't waste their precious specials. And the important thing - all of them (except for Kakashi) have power up modes. Rock Lee goes 5 gates, Chouji goes butterfly mode (gay), Kiba does fusion with Akamaru to transform into a giant two headed dog, Juugo goes CS2. How many Peins will they kill?

I personally don't think that Madara could last 5 minutes with Goku, if anything I could see Vegeta jumping in and not even attempting but ending Madara for attempting to come against a Saiyan, he was just as prideful as Sasuke, maybe more.

For your other fight, the group would matter in a battle vs. 5 paths of Pein, God Mode wipes them all out with the jutsu that sucked up the Kyuubi at 8 tails, none of them are stopping that, not even Kamui from Kakashi.

superninja
03-21-2011, 07:01 PM
Ok, but my idea was that Lee with 5 gates can blitz instantly some of the Peins, Kiba/Akamaru fusion does a whirlwind attack that probably can only be stopped with shinra tensei, CS 2 Juugo (imo) is also stronger than most Peins except for God realm because he can tank damage and create those air guns out of his flesh, Chouji on the pill can dish some damage (he could destroy big summons with his punches except for the dog that multiplies). The point is while all of them are dishing out the big attacks Kakashi goes behind for the silent kills.

Numinous
03-21-2011, 07:16 PM
Ok, but my idea was that Lee with 5 gates can blitz instantly some of the Peins

Except Deva Realm could be set on defense of the other paths, now it depends if 5-gates Lee has enough juice to surpass the first couple of Shinra Tensei.

Kiba/Akamaru fusion does a whirlwind attack that probably can only be stopped with shinra tenseiOr with a resistant enough summon, like Ukon and Sakon did. And what does Pain have? Of course, Animal Path!

CS 2 Juugo (imo) is also stronger than most Peins except for God realm because he can tank damage Except he doesn't. Raikage sent him flying like a rubber ball with his ball.

and create those air guns out of his fleshAnd Preta Path would suck them right away.

Chouji on the pill can dish some damage (he could destroy big summons with his punches except for the dog that multiplies). And that exception is why Chouji would ultimately fail: he has to defeat Animal Path in order to get rid of the dog, but with Deva Realm on defense, he'd fall flat.

The point is while all of them are dishing out the big attacks Kakashi goes behind for the silent kills.And exactly how he'd "silent kill" the 3 paths I still didn't mention (Human, Asura and Naraka)? I guess he'd probably take care of Asura with some help, but the other 2 together are too dangerous for most shinobi.

AOTKorby
03-21-2011, 07:49 PM
are you claiming the manga doesnt state half a year after becoming a chuunin he had the mission that got him into anbu

I'm claiming that that translation is so bad that it manages to contradict the DB and fuck up Itachi's catchphrase so it has no goddamn business being used.

Oh hey, both of those conditions are true! So yeah, that translation can go suck a cock, it's wrong.

superninja
03-21-2011, 09:47 PM
Or with a resistant enough summon, like Ukon and Sakon did. And what does Pain have? Of course, Animal Path!


That "resistant summon" was Oro's ultimate defense.
The only Pein summon that is maybe resistant enough is the giant rhino because he might have tough hide and is big so he has the mass. However twin headed dog made a big dent in a giant door made of iron so maybe not even rhino could stop Kiba and Akamaru.


Except he doesn't. Raikage sent him flying like a rubber ball with his ball.

lol CS2 Juugo tanked raikages fist going through his body and then proceeded to attack him. How many people can do that? Juugo can tank serious damage and he is crazy so he won't be put down easily.

And that exception is why Chouji would ultimately fail: he has to defeat Animal Path in order to get rid of the dog, but with Deva Realm on defense, he'd fall flat.


Kakashi or Rock Lee can take care of the summoner, Chouji just needs to smash some summons or something else.


And exactly how he'd "silent kill" the 3 paths I still didn't mention (Human, Asura and Naraka)? I guess he'd probably take care of Asura with some help, but the other 2 together are too dangerous for most shinobi.

Naraka is just used for reviving others and will be put behind all the other Peins to be kept safe. Around "naraka" pein will probably be one or two paths to guard it.
Gated Rock Lee can beat most of the Peins by himself except for god realm.
I don't know whether it's better if Kakashi goes behind Peins front line underground while the hard hitters are pressing the front line (this way Pein has to divide his force) or if Kakashi stays with his team and uses combination with the hard hitters to quickly kill Pein paths that are forward.

kael03
03-21-2011, 10:06 PM
Um, Kakashi couldn't take on 2 Paths when they invaded Konoha. What makes you think he could take more? Even with the assistance of the others. By the way, why Lee and not Guy? Guy's shown to be stronger with the Gates and is able to use summons.

ninjalostboy95
03-21-2011, 10:36 PM
Lol, Chouji is a pussy and would probably be too scared to face pain. So it's more like Kakashi, Kiba and Akamaru, Juugo and Rock Lee vs. the 6th paths of Pain. But still, Juugo? Kiba? Kiba got side stepped by Madara and Juugo is just lol.

superninja
03-21-2011, 11:09 PM
Um, Kakashi couldn't take on 2 Paths when they invaded Konoha. What makes you think he could take more? Even with the assistance of the others. By the way, why Lee and not Guy? Guy's shown to be stronger with the Gates and is able to use summons.

Kakashi couldn't take...one of those 2 was the strongest Pein body and Kakashi was doing just fine. If you switch the god realm with any other Pein then Kakashi would have had an easier time. Plus he almost killed 2 paths with help from chouji and his dad, if he used kamui instead of chidori on a chained Pein he would have won. Lee is chosen because Lee needs to be appreciated more, Gai is a little stronger with gates and imo Gai can solo any Pein one on one and most of them even if they work as a team.

Lol, Chouji is a pussy and would probably be too scared to face pain. So it's more like Kakashi, Kiba and Akamaru, Juugo and Rock Lee vs. the 6th paths of Pain. But still, Juugo? Kiba? Kiba got side stepped by Madara and Juugo is just lol.

Chouji is not a pussy, well he is but Kakashi gave him a speech to motivate him. He also took the last pill so he gains some chakra upgrade and is about to die probably so he doesn't care.
This is CS2 Juugo who can take a direct hit from a rocket and still live and attack after that. He could take on robo Pein and win one on one. If he can survive raikages attacks then he can survive anything Pein throws at him except for the soul extraction.
Kiba in fusion with akamaru is not the same as just Kiba and akamaru. He becomes a giant twin headed dog that can attack fast with his spinning whirlwind and cause gigantic damage.
Gated Rock Lee can take on any Pein one on one and win (even the god realm) since he is much more faster and powerful.

I am talking about these guys each using their power up mode for a short duration of time and they are actually pretty strong while they are powered up. People need to realize that, but I don't blame you guys for underestimating, I blame Kishi since Rock Lee, Kiba and Chouji didn't use their power ups since part one and that was over 300 chapters ago so its easy to forget.

kael03
03-21-2011, 11:16 PM
We're not underestimating, we're being realists. None of the people you chose could do shit against Pain. It took just the 6 paths to wipe out Konoha. Kakashi - dead, Jiraiya - dead. Naruto only won because of plot-no-jutsu (a fucking book made Nagato off himself, for fucks sake) and a hacked Sage Mode that was inspired by plot-no-jutsu. Until Naruto showed up, none of the paths had been killed by ANYONE in Konoha.

NeoKakarott023
03-21-2011, 11:26 PM
That "resistant summon" was Oro's ultimate defense.
The only Pein summon that is maybe resistant enough is the giant rhino because he might have tough hide and is big so he has the mass. However twin headed dog made a big dent in a giant door made of iron so maybe not even rhino could stop Kiba and Akamaru.



lol CS2 Juugo tanked raikages fist going through his body and then proceeded to attack him. How many people can do that? Juugo can tank serious damage and he is crazy so he won't be put down easily.



Kakashi or Rock Lee can take care of the summoner, Chouji just needs to smash some summons or something else.



Naraka is just used for reviving others and will be put behind all the other Peins to be kept safe. Around "naraka" pein will probably be one or two paths to guard it.
Gated Rock Lee can beat most of the Peins by himself except for god realm.
I don't know whether it's better if Kakashi goes behind Peins front line underground while the hard hitters are pressing the front line (this way Pein has to divide his force) or if Kakashi stays with his team and uses combination with the hard hitters to quickly kill Pein paths that are forward.

Actually Oro's Ultimate Defense was 3 Gates, Kiba blew through 2 and made a dent in the 3rd.

Now with regard to Nagato/Pein, its seems like I'm defending him as much as Sasuke nowadays because IMHO people have actually forgotten how Uber this dude was. His intro was he felt Jiraiya whom had turned himself into a frog THROUGH THE RAIN HE MADE. Additionally after outright destroying Jiraiya (whom would easily assraep all of those characters in this battle) he went to the town of all of those guys, whooped all of their asses, and nuked their home. I understand the 'rules' and they knowing about Nagato, and blah blah, but for real the only reason thoughts of Peins defeat exist was for SPECIFIC REASONS, any shinobi or group without these will perish vs. Nagato/Pein, IMHO.

Specific Reasons Naruto Defeated Pein (I'm sorry, they stopped fighting and started drinking Rainbow Luv Punch)

#1 He was the lead character, only Madara had a shot, lets be real.
#2 He was in Sage Mode, which helped his sensing, frog katas, jutsu, etc.
#3 He came with 3 Boss Toad Summons, and 2 Sage Masters in Ma & Pa.
#4 Naruto has a chakra tank the size of an Arab oil field.
#5 the 9 Tail Jink was inside him
#6 the Kyuubi has a chakra tank twice the size of Naruto
#7 One would have to be the smartest dumb guy in the ninja world to talk a guy into killing himself.

Notice if your shinobi, or crew that you dream up don't have most of the 7, (okay to hell with 1 & 7), they don't belong in this characters discussion. I didn't even like dude at first, but Nagato/Peins manga feats are LEGENDARY.

The sheer power, I can't understand the confusion, and dude dosen't make many mistakes, master of ALL ninjutsu too?

I honestly am sad that Nagato died before he could slap Raichu around for a while and humble him some.

Amuro
03-22-2011, 12:19 AM
Apparently you've forgotten that Goku can use Instant Transmission to go anywhere he wants. He used it to go from the earth, to King Kai's planet, which is in otherworld. I believe otherworld is considered an alternate dimension (plane of existence, or whatever you want to call it). So yeah, Goku can dimensional shift his ass out of Madara's eye dimension thingy as much as he wants, and it uses almost no power to do so. What's Fagdara gonna do then?

No, apparently you need to brush up on your dbz. I dont even wanna turn this into a debate but the level of sarcasm im getting is surprising. Goku cannot instant transmission "to go anywhere he wants" it depends. He can only travel to places where he detects someone "familiar" to him. He needs to lock on to someone in order to do the technique. A example of this was at the end of dbz Dende asked him to go to the new Namek but Goku couldnt because he said there energy was too far away for him to lock on to. If Goku cannot detect any familiar energy from Madaras dimension hes fucked. Also in Dragon Ball Z: Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan, its said that this move briefly moves the user into a pocket dimension which then allows them to move to any location instantly. However, the user cannot travel to an area they have never been to unless they can detect someone familiar to them to use as a homing beacon.

So there are limits to Gokus godly technique. It does allow him to move at the speed of light. Which is impressive, but wont help if hes lost in another dimension, where he cant detect anyone he knows. Goku wouldnt attack for 5 mins straight, hes not that kind of guy. Knowing him hed start off "regular" to guage Madaras power (like he always does) If he attacks, realizes he "missed" and pauses even for a min. to try to understand why, hes getting sucked up. Only plausible thing I can see him doing (idk if hes as smart as the 4th) would be to instant transmission out of it while hes being sucked in. Cant say for sure if he would or wouldnt...

NeoKakarott023
03-22-2011, 09:14 AM
No, apparently you need to brush up on your dbz. I dont even wanna turn this into a debate but the level of sarcasm im getting is surprising. Goku cannot instant transmission "to go anywhere he wants" it depends. He can only travel to places where he detects someone "familiar" to him. He needs to lock on to someone in order to do the technique. A example of this was at the end of dbz Dende asked him to go to the new Namek but Goku couldnt because he said there energy was too far away for him to lock on to. If Goku cannot detect any familiar energy from Madaras dimension hes fucked. Also in Dragon Ball Z: Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan, its said that this move briefly moves the user into a pocket dimension which then allows them to move to any location instantly. However, the user cannot travel to an area they have never been to unless they can detect someone familiar to them to use as a homing beacon.

So there are limits to Gokus godly technique. It does allow him to move at the speed of light. Which is impressive, but wont help if hes lost in another dimension, where he cant detect anyone he knows. Goku wouldnt attack for 5 mins straight, hes not that kind of guy. Knowing him hed start off "regular" to guage Madaras power (like he always does) If he attacks, realizes he "missed" and pauses even for a min. to try to understand why, hes getting sucked up. Only plausible thing I can see him doing (idk if hes as smart as the 4th) would be to instant transmission out of it while hes being sucked in. Cant say for sure if he would or wouldnt...

If you look at what your saying, your simply attempting to give Madara power and abilities to assist him in simply staying on the battlefield with Goku. Madara can warp without much effort, I give you that, but since by your words on Earth he can probably instant transmission at will, giving him basically the same power as Madara, now here you begin failing miserably. Goku has taken techs/jutsu from much more Uber beings than Madara, and lived, often times without even powering up to massive Super Sayian levels. Madara got his arm rocked off by Minato, and to me Minato < any Sayian every born, and additionally Kamehameha would send Madara into another dimension, and he wouldn't come back, and those are simply manga faktz. The power levels in those 2 mangas are simply night and day, and NOBODY FROM NARUTO STANDS A SHOT VS. A SAIYAN, NOT EVEN NAGATO/PEIN. Heck Ridoku with the Jyuubi would get broken. Naruto's a one world manga, Dragonball Z & GT is a multiple world manga, its impossible to compare the two validly, IMHO.

Whats Madara's answer if Goku goes Super Ape? A genjutsu? Inzagai? None of that would help him, Madara in all his life has never faced anything, or even imagined anything like a Saiyan.

Numinous
03-22-2011, 09:28 AM
That "resistant summon" was Oro's ultimate defense.

Actually Oro's Ultimate Defense was 3 Gates, Kiba blew through 2 and made a dent in the 3rd.
Actually Sakon and Ukon only summoned 1 Rashoumon vs the 3 Orochimaru summoned against Naruto.

The only Pein summon that is maybe resistant enough is the giant rhino because he might have tough hide and is big so he has the mass. However twin headed dog made a big dent in a giant door made of iron so maybe not even rhino could stop Kiba and Akamaru.

You used a very bad summon for defense, the panda summon is much better for the job than the rhino, which is mainly offensive.

lol CS2 Juugo tanked raikages fist going through his body and then proceeded to attack him. How many people can do that? Juugo can tank serious damage and he is crazy so he won't be put down easily.

And again, you missed the part where he was sent flying off a wall. Just because he survived doesn't mean he has a good defense, it might rather mean he's a good resilience or just plain lucky.

Kakashi or Rock Lee can take care of the summoner, Chouji just needs to smash some summons or something else.

And Deva Realm sends both away with Shinra Tensei. There's no one in the team with a fast enough long-ranged attack to give them leverage over Deva Realm.

Naraka is just used for reviving others and will be put behind all the other Peins to be kept safe. Around "naraka" pein will probably be one or two paths to guard it.

Except Naraka Path can take away souls with the Outer Path, so it's as valuable on the offense as it is on defense.

Gated Rock Lee can beat most of the Peins by himself except for god realm.

And that's the problem right there: put Deva Realm defending the other paths and Rock Lee becomes a joke.

I don't know whether it's better if Kakashi goes behind Peins front line underground while the hard hitters are pressing the front line (this way Pein has to divide his force)

And why do you think Pain would divide his paths if he doesn't need to?

NeoKakarott023
03-22-2011, 10:42 AM
Actually Sakon and Ukon only summoned 1 Rashoumon vs Kiba/Akamaru the 3 Orochimaru summoned against Naruto.You used a very bad summon for defense, the panda summon is much better for the job than the rhino, which is mainly offensive.



And again, you missed the part where he was sent flying off a wall. Just because he survived doesn't mean he has a good defense, it might rather mean he's a good resilience or just plain lucky.



And Deva Realm sends both away with Shinra Tensei. There's no one in the team with a fast enough long-ranged attack to give them leverage over Deva Realm.



Except Naraka Path can take away souls with the Outer Path, so it's as valuable on the offense as it is on defense.



And that's the problem right there: put Deva Realm defending the other paths and Rock Lee becomes a joke.



And why do you think Pain would divide his paths if he doesn't need to?

Yeah I combined 2 fights here, lol. But don't you people miss Oro, that Dude went after shit, he didn't just sit around on his ass, he was always plotting and scheming, kept me on the edge of my seat more than any other 'evil' character in this lame story.

Amuro
03-22-2011, 12:20 PM
If you look at what your saying, your simply attempting to give Madara power and abilities to assist him in simply staying on the battlefield with Goku. Madara can warp without much effort, I give you that, but since by your words on Earth he can probably instant transmission at will, giving him basically the same power as Madara, now here you begin failing miserably. Goku has taken techs/jutsu from much more Uber beings than Madara, and lived, often times without even powering up to massive Super Sayian levels. Madara got his arm rocked off by Minato, and to me Minato < any Sayian every born, and additionally Kamehameha would send Madara into another dimension, and he wouldn't come back, and those are simply manga faktz. The power levels in those 2 mangas are simply night and day, and NOBODY FROM NARUTO STANDS A SHOT VS. A SAIYAN, NOT EVEN NAGATO/PEIN. Heck Ridoku with the Jyuubi would get broken. Naruto's a one world manga, Dragonball Z & GT is a multiple world manga, its impossible to compare the two validly, IMHO.

Whats Madara's answer if Goku goes Super Ape? A genjutsu? Inzagai? None of that would help him, Madara in all his life has never faced anything, or even imagined anything like a Saiyan.

*sigh*

"your simply attempting to give Madara power and abilities to assist him"

"on Earth he can probably instant transmission at will, giving him basically the same power as Madara,"
^^
You see what your did there???:confused:

Gokus instant transmission is not like Madaras power. Your giving Goku powers and abilities to assit him. You have NEVER seen Goku warp PART of his body with instant transmission. Why would you say that? Its just not the same..

What "power" did I give Madara that would assist him that he dosent already have??

"Goku has taken techs/jutsu from much more Uber beings than Madara, and lived, often times without even powering up to massive Super Sayian levels."

lolwut are you saying? Gokus going to copy Madaras tech????
Sharingan Goku hu? NO...

Madara got his arm rocked off by Minato, and to me Minato < any Sayian every born,

Minato is a Genius. Fact. Goku isnt. I can show you if you like, Gokus has been called dumb many times. Hes not know to be smart, hes like a Naruto.
Minato has a space/time jutsu. Goku can move at the speed of light only if he locks on to a ki signature. Madara has Chakra..

"and additionally Kamehameha would send Madara into another dimension, and he wouldn't come back, and those are simply manga faktz. The power levels in those 2 mangas are simply night and day, and NOBODY FROM NARUTO STANDS A SHOT VS. A SAIYAN, NOT EVEN NAGATO/PEIN. Heck Ridoku with the Jyuubi would get broken. Naruto's a one world manga, Dragonball Z & GT is a multiple world manga, its impossible to compare the two validly, IMHO."

*sigh*

the kamehameha wouldnt hit Madara because he can phase. In GT Nova shenron makes fun of Goku because the build-up for the attack is longer than the attack itself.

My thing is this, it dosent matter how strong Goku is because Madara can make himself intangable. I am aware DBZ characters are strong. I choose Madara because he can beat you regardless of stregnth imo. If he sucks Goku in the eye its done. To me you HAVE to understand his jutsu b4 you can really land anything. It dosent take long for him to suck you in his eye either.

First your like "NO!! goku can instant transmission out of it blah blha blah." now your like "idc Goku is SOOOO STRONG OMG R U CRAZIII" "POWER LVLS!!!"

You and other also attempt to take Goku out of character by saying he'll just blow up the earth -_-. Orly? since when has Goku done shit like that. Go super ape? Rly? Cause hes like Vegeta right? Gonna make a artificial moon and go ape to it. Thats not how Goku fights, its out of character. Hell Goku dosent even like killing, hed rather let his foes walk away with a beating as long as they promise never to hurt anyone again. I can show you if youd like. off the top of my head, Freezia and Ice shenron. Goku rarely goes ss4 at the begining of a fight, especially if he cant read energy from his opponent. Look how long he fights strong foe as a regular sayain. Then makes his super sayain transformation all dramatic n shit.

Like c'mon, i respect your opinion, but dont try to make me look like a dumb ass because you dont agree...


p.s super apes not hitting shit either. acutally imo hes more fucked because hes bigger and slower. idk if he can instant transmission like that. Madara can phase..

NeoKakarott023
03-22-2011, 12:40 PM
*sigh*

"your simply attempting to give Madara power and abilities to assist him"

"on Earth he can probably instant transmission at will, giving him basically the same power as Madara,"
^^
You see what your did there???:confused:

Gokus instant transmission is not like Madaras power. Your giving Goku powers and abilities to assit him. You have NEVER seen Goku warp PART of his body with instant transmission. Why would you say that? Its just not the same..

What "power" did I give Madara that would assist him that he dosent already have??

"Goku has taken techs/jutsu from much more Uber beings than Madara, and lived, often times without even powering up to massive Super Sayian levels."

lolwut are you saying? Gokus going to copy Madaras tech????
Sharingan Goku hu? NO...

Madara got his arm rocked off by Minato, and to me Minato < any Sayian every born,

Minato is a Genius. Fact. Goku isnt. I can show you if you like, Gokus has been called dumb many times. Hes not know to be smart, hes like a Naruto.
Minato has a space/time jutsu. Goku can move at the speed of light only if he locks on to a ki signature. Madara has Chakra..

"and additionally Kamehameha would send Madara into another dimension, and he wouldn't come back, and those are simply manga faktz. The power levels in those 2 mangas are simply night and day, and NOBODY FROM NARUTO STANDS A SHOT VS. A SAIYAN, NOT EVEN NAGATO/PEIN. Heck Ridoku with the Jyuubi would get broken. Naruto's a one world manga, Dragonball Z & GT is a multiple world manga, its impossible to compare the two validly, IMHO."

*sigh*

the kamehameha wouldnt hit Madara because he can phase. In GT Nova shenron makes fun of Goku because the build-up for the attack is longer than the attack itself.

My thing is this, it dosent matter how strong Goku is because Madara can make himself intangable. I am aware DBZ characters are strong. I choose Madara because he can beat you regardless of stregnth imo. If he sucks Goku in the eye its done. To me you HAVE to understand his jutsu b4 you can really land anything. It dosent take long for him to suck you in his eye either.

First your like "NO!! goku can instant transmission out of it blah blha blah." now your like "idc Goku is SOOOO STRONG OMG R U CRAZIII" "POWER LVLS!!!"

You and other also attempt to take Goku out of character by saying he'll just blow up the earth -_-. Orly? since when has Goku done shit like that. Go super ape? Rly? Cause hes like Vegeta right? Gonna make a artificial moon and go ape to it. Thats not how Goku fights, its out of character. Hell Goku dosent even like killing, hed rather let his foes walk away with a beating as long as they promise never to hurt anyone again. I can show you if youd like. off the top of my head, Freezia and Ice shenron. Goku rarely goes ss4 at the begining of a fight, especially if he cant read energy from his opponent. Look how long he fights strong foe as a regular sayain. Then makes his super sayain transformation all dramatic n shit.

Like c'mon, i respect your opinion, but dont try to make me look like a dumb ass because you dont agree...


p.s super apes not hitting shit either. acutally imo hes more fucked because hes bigger and slower. idk if he can instant transmission like that. Madara can phase..

How many characters in Naruto have the ability to destroy the planet, and then go live elsewhere. Zero, Madara dosen't have the power to nuke a planet, Goku does, Pein nuked a village and called himself a God. Additionally, look:

He can only travel to places where he detects someone "familiar" to him.

Those are your words, so since he was found on Earth by his Grandpa, and interacted with boatloads of people, shouldn't there be someone he's familiar with, or are you simply ripping him out of his manga, placing him on Madara's battle field, dumbing down his overall power, speed, etc. so that Madara can defeat him because you say so? Why not give Madara some more power ups so he can matter in said battle. IMHO Madara, with EMS, Rinnengan, every hax in the Narutoverse, and every bijuu, plus his Moons Eye Plan, he'd get raeped. Its simple all of these ninja/shinobi are fighting over a patch of land ON THE EARTH, and he's not just wiping away the competition with hyped up humans. Saiyans are intergalactic, they have destroyed planets, and races on Friezas whim. The nobodies that was running with Goku's Dad prolly killed more and destroyed more than Madara has in his entire existence.
Its like attempting a battle with Bleach & Naruto characters, it just dosen't fit, they're existing on differnet dimensions. Example the dead at best in Naruto can become an Edo, while Death Gods aren't actually 'alive' compared to Sado, Orihime, etc. but they are far from dead at the same time. I'm bowing out here, you desire to go down this path with DBZ, to me its simply...nonsensical. But thats just me.

Amuro
03-22-2011, 01:15 PM
Again, like I said raw power has nothing to do with it...
Ok neo w.e lets agree to disagree. I know the match up was out of place, and random and I do fully understand what you are saying. As far as the instant transmission thing, those arent my words you can google it if you want. Or just watch dbz. I showed you in earlier posts, where they say in DBZ how gokus instant transmission works, I even referenced a movie. My point was that Goku couldnt just "warp" out of Madaras dimension because his powers dont work like that. Hed have to sense someone familiar to him. He couldnt even warp to new namke from earth because the inhabitants were "too far", and thats in the same dimension. new namek wasnt in another plane, it was just really far. Madara has another dimension.
To me your being a lil close minded but hey w.e. Honestly this is all "fantasy" talk so your attempt to bring some realism to it has me lost. I addressed the whole planet destruction thing and I dont understand how im being unfair to Goku by saying he wouldnt do it. Its not dumbing him down to me, thats just how his character is. Like chouji bitching out, hes designed like that.

Its all speculation anyway so fuggit!

Numinous
03-22-2011, 01:22 PM
Just a detail that Amuro seems to forget: Madara has to be tangible if he wants to do anything to Goku, therefore Goku has a window, although short, of pulverizing Madara. Which he can, since Kamehameha isn't his only move.

But if you think Madara is so nigh-invulnerable, let's see how you think he'll win against Zodiark (FF XII).

*wink* He uses Final Eclipse, which destroys the very fabric of existence. *wink*

Amuro
03-22-2011, 01:29 PM
LOL num. I respect that! At least you saw my main point and crushed it! Neo made me feel like I was arguing with my gf haha. Like he danced around my shit and dnt say anything in regaurds to hitting him. It seemed like he just didnt like what i was saying and just went against it.

*wink* how would goku know he has to be tangable in order to suck him up?
Konan knew but that was after a long time of being by his side and observing his abilities.

lol zodiarc? ill troll a liil and say IZANGI!!!
honestly idk destroying the fabric of existance is sum s**t...
(note: i see what you did there, point taken)

stubborn_d0nkey
03-22-2011, 01:36 PM
are you claiming the manga doesnt state half a year after becoming a chuunin he had the mission that got him into anbu

There is a difference between getting into anbu and becoming a captain/leader. Thats what happened at 13, and thats what I saw people said happened at 13 (dunno if its right for everyone;s posts).

Numinous
03-22-2011, 01:44 PM
*wink* how would goku know he has to be tangable in order to suck him up?
Konan knew but that was after a long time of being by his side and observing his abilities.

The same way Konoha acknowledged his tangibility: trial and error.

You keep using the movie and DB GT as base for Goku limitations, when none of them are canon. Sorry, but as far as we know, Goku can get out of Madara's dimension at whim. Also, you use IC (in-character behavior) as a variable, so I'll use it too: Madara would just think Goku can't do anything to him and underestimate him, only using his T/S to his dimension when he thinks Goku can't be taken lightly anymore. Now the question is, would Madara realize that before Goku annihilates him?

lol zodiarc? ill troll a liil and say IZANGI!!!
honestly idk destroying the fabric of existance is sum s**t...
(note: i see what you did there, point taken)

Even without using Final Eclipse, Zodiark would still prove incredibly difficult to Madara, since Zodiark also has the nasty ability of becoming immune to any attack or spell. That paired with no charging time for his attacks and spells, very little to no spending of mana/chakra and some still nasty attacks, I doubt Madara's survival.

Amuro
03-22-2011, 01:51 PM
Yea and Konoha still dosent know he has to be tangible to suck you in. If your talking about the two root members that were with Danzo, you see what happened to them.

In character behavior still has Madara not getting hit. Who has hit Madara in the Manga so far other than the 4th, who is a genius with a t/s jutsu himself? Madara knows he is stronger than most of the shinobi out, even sasuke and naruto (at the time) Both of them attacked and failed. Madara hasnt underestimated anyone to the point where he has taken damage so i dont get what your saying there.

And actually goku first mentions how his ability works when he met Trunks on earth. After Trunks killed freezia. So thats cannon my boy. Also the whole new namek being too far away for him to transmission to was at the end of dbz. Also cannon.
(i already dropped it, any further debate is just you "picking" now. Ill entertain it as long as you want tho ;) )

NeoKakarott023
03-22-2011, 01:59 PM
Again, like I said raw power has nothing to do with it...
Ok neo w.e lets agree to disagree. I know the match up was out of place, and random and I do fully understand what you are saying. As far as the instant transmission thing, those arent my words you can google it if you want. Or just watch dbz. I showed you in earlier posts, where they say in DBZ how gokus instant transmission works, I even referenced a movie. My point was that Goku couldnt just "warp" out of Madaras dimension because his powers dont work like that. Hed have to sense someone familiar to him. He couldnt even warp to new namke from earth because the inhabitants were "too far", and thats in the same dimension. new namek wasnt in another plane, it was just really far. Madara has another dimension.
To me your being a lil close minded but hey w.e. Honestly this is all "fantasy" talk so your attempt to bring some realism to it has me lost. I addressed the whole planet destruction thing and I dont understand how im being unfair to Goku by saying he wouldnt do it. Its not dumbing him down to me, thats just how his character is. Like chouji bitching out, hes designed like that.

Its all speculation anyway so fuggit!

You're correct, about Saiyans I am closed minded because of what they actually did, power wise few even reside in their solar system. Saiyans are considered 'Sacred' in the groups I travel as well. They weren't all time better than anyone else, but whatever they did in DBZ, they did it epic, like no one before, and not many since. The Dragonball's continually erasing evil, death, etc., as well as the Saiyans power levels which was actually past incomprehensable before Goku even went SS4, led to the demise of the series they became too big, so it was that much harder to create a 'Real' opponent for Saiyans. Remember Goku was battling Buu, whom was wrecking Gods in the Heavens, in my world Madara dosen't fit, or belong their, Vegeta and the others got into the fray because Buu simply decided to leave that realm and destroy other things like Saiyans on Earth simply because he felt their power levels.
As much as I like Naruto, or even my favorite character Uchiha Sasuke, they're bringing shuriken's that in all probability won't even scratch the skin of a Saiyan, check out every battle tournament in the past in DBZ where its ANY kind of REAL human being vs. ANY Saiyan (even Trunks & Gotem), and the Human got crushed, quick fast and in a hurry. Could Naruto shinobi hit Saiyans, prolly, I'd say yes.... but the result would be so what? My mind says if a being (Freiza), can send a jutsu/move/attack that was headed to the center of the Earth to destroy it, and Goku first stopped it, that means he could physically overpower something that was strong enough to destroy the Earth. On their best day in the Narutoverse, they could evade the attack directly, but the thing would still destroy the Earth, but I've yet to see the character that could do anything else.

Amuro
03-22-2011, 02:11 PM
Neo just stop. I honestly dont like Madara either. My fav char is sasuke too so we have something in common. Im not saying a ninja from naruto will beat a sayin. A fuckin shuriken or chidori isnt going to kill anyone from dbz. No rasenshurikens er anything. I am saying that No amount of power is going to save Goku from another dimension. Thats all, and if Goku were to get sucked up. Which is possible to me. He'd be f*cked. Thats all. If you can see a naruto ninja hitting a sayain (which i cant) then you should see madara sucking goku in. I dont even see a ninja being in the same league as far as speed. Which is why i choose madara hes the only person who can afford to stand still in that fight and not be damaged. As far as freezias death ball, im just poking because I see your point but, the 4th could use the FTG Barrier er what ever its called and warp the ball somewhere else (like space?) kinda like he did with the Kyuubis ball. haha jus saying...

I see it playing out like this:
fight starts. Goku moves so fast madara cant tell where he went. Madara goes intangable. Goku punches a "hole" through madara. Madara is unaffected. Goku gets confussed a little bit, tries again, misses, and then wut? Blow up the planet -_-. No try to figure out wtfs going on. Hell prolly power up to get more speed. Attacks again a bunch of times, misses. Askes "wtf" and gets sucked in. One pause is all it takes. No hand seals er nothing. I over simplified it but basically....yea thats how i see it. Now if you dont, thats fine we already decided to disagree so just stop. Plus ur not even telling me anything I dont already know about sayins or how Goku would stop this. Other than saying Goku will blow the planet up and live somewhere else. I can see Vegeta doing that out of frustration but goku, no.

Vengeance
03-22-2011, 02:20 PM
Wait what? Is someone actually trying to make a case against Goku using a Naruto character? LMAO fucking retards.

PS: Goku can teleport while Madara warps people to a different dimension. Even if Madara was some how able to keep track of Goku's otherworldly god speed & warp Goku away he could simply return in an instant. Get fucking real.

Amuro
03-22-2011, 02:22 PM
^ ur cool.

Hypothetically veng. If Goku got sucked in Madaras dimension, can he instant transmission out of it?

Vengeance
03-22-2011, 02:24 PM
^ I know. Just so you know in order for Madara to warp someone away he needs to be tangible.

Amuro
03-22-2011, 02:27 PM
Can you answer my question? stop being a girl about it. Also send a link to where you got your information on Instant transmission too. Just because hes goku he can isnt a valid arguement

Ive searched online for descriptions on his technique, they all say he can only transport himself places where he senses ki. This was stated in DBZ (so thats cannon?) and reinforced in GT and movies (which arent cannon)

NeoKakarott023
03-22-2011, 02:33 PM
^ ur cool.

Hypothetically veng. If Goku got sucked in Madaras dimension, can he instant transmission out of it?

Not doing anything but explaining my thoughts on Saiyans, which I stated was biased. But are you simply saying that Madara can capture Goku in his warp, so therefore he wins? I say Saiyans are faster from what I've seen so I truly don't think he could warp Goku away before he just wound up behind him in the middle of his attempt, at that point all I see is roadkill, it would seem effortless.

'Shun-kanido also known as Instant Transmission is a technique from the Dragon Ball/Dragon Ball Z manga and the Dragon Ball Z anime used by Son Goku.

The Shun-kanido is a method of high speed travel learned by Goku after his fight with Freeza. It allows Goku and anyone that is in contact with him to travel at the speed of light for great distances (from meters to thousands of kilometers; i.e. off planet) just by concentrating on a particular individuals energy signature and 'transmitting' to that beings location. This action is usually accompanied by Goku placing his index and middle fingers on his forehead to help him concentrate. '

So like we said, its like Sage Mode for the Galaxy, where you can feel others, BUT he can transfer his own body, at will. Does that end this jaunt down DBZ Land, because as you see, not only from me, its an unequal propostition to put characters from these 2 mangas on the same battlefield. Why you may say....at best ONE character, of all the characters had a possible shot with the T/S Warp on Goku in your words. Since nobody moves the speed of light, as Itachi asked Sasuke... what else do you have?

Amuro
03-22-2011, 02:39 PM
Ok neo, I can see that. Kinda like how the 4th escaped it. Fair enough.

Now lets see everyone else be like, "thats what i was saying lolz *drool*"

NeoKakarott023
03-22-2011, 02:42 PM
Ok neo, I can see that. Kinda like how the 4th escaped it. Fair enough.

Now lets see everyone else be like, "thats what i was saying lolz *drool*"

Keep in my there was no disrespect, I rather enjoyed going back, its been a while, thanks.

Vengeance
03-22-2011, 02:47 PM
Can you answer my question? stop being a girl about it. Also send a link to where you got your information on Instant transmission too. Just because hes goku he can isnt a valid arguement
Stop being a girl about it? Goku can teleport to fucking heaven you retard what makes you think another random dimension is going to make the slightest difference. I don't need to look up shit. Brush up on your DBZ & come back to me when you actually know what you're talking about.

Ive searched online for descriptions on his technique, they all say he can only transport himself places where he senses ki. This was stated in DBZ (so thats cannon?) and reinforced in GT and movies (which arent cannon)
People on earth don't have Ki? Really now stop being retarded.

ask me anything
03-22-2011, 07:38 PM
Can you answer my question? stop being a girl about it. Also send a link to where you got your information on Instant transmission too.

I'll do better then that. I'll fucking quote you and show you where you killed your own fucking argument.


No, apparently you need to brush up on your dbz. I dont even wanna turn this into a debate but the level of sarcasm im getting is surprising. Goku cannot instant transmission "to go anywhere he wants" it depends. He can only travel to places where he detects someone "familiar" to him. He needs to lock on to someone in order to do the technique. A example of this was at the end of dbz Dende asked him to go to the new Namek but Goku couldnt because he said there energy was too far away for him to lock on to. If Goku cannot detect any familiar energy from Madaras dimension hes fucked. Also in Dragon Ball Z: Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan, its said that this move briefly moves the user into a pocket dimension which then allows them to move to any location instantly. However, the user cannot travel to an area they have never been to unless they can detect someone familiar to them to use as a homing beacon.

See how you fucked yourself. Wut, you don't understand how? Then let me elaborate.

You said he needs to lock onto someone familiar only if hes hasn't been to that place before. So if he has been there the homing beacon shit shouldn't be necessary. So if Madara sucks Goku into his eye Dimension, then Gokus objective would be to get back to where he just was. Since he WAS JUST FUCKING THERE, the place would be familiar to him so he wouldn't need to lock onto shit. Durr Hurr Hurr, is basic logic to much for you?

But whatever, it doesn't even matter, since he could always just home in on Madara's ass wherever he runs to. Yeah yeah, I know what your gonna say, but say it anyway....just for the lulz.

Stop being a girl about it? Goku can teleport to fucking heaven you retard what makes you think another random dimension is going to make the slightest difference. I don't need to look up shit. Brush up on your DBZ & come back to me when you actually know what you're talking about.

People on earth don't have Ki? Really now stop being retarded.

QFT.

ninjalostboy95
03-22-2011, 10:33 PM
Somewhat in the middle(I know Madara can't kill him but still):

It allows Goku and anyone that is in contact with him to travel at the speed of light for great distances(from meters to thousands of kilometers; i.e. off planet) just by concentrating on a particular individuals energy signature and 'transmitting' to that beings location. This action is usually accompanied by Goku placing his index and middle finger on his forehead to help him concentrate.

So if Madara grabs him, then he would be able to warp Goku because even if Goku attempts to instant transmission himself, Madara would still be in contact with him, so he didn't move away from but rather with Madara. Goku would come back then fuck up Madara. Just wanted to point out it was possible for Madara to warp Goku to a different dimension.

NeoKakarott023
03-22-2011, 10:43 PM
Somewhat in the middle(I know Madara can't kill him but still):



So if Madara grabs him, then he would be able to warp Goku because even if Goku attempts to instant transmission himself, Madara would still be in contact with him, so he didn't move away from but rather with Madara. Goku would come back then fuck up Madara. Just wanted to point out it was possible for Madara to warp Goku to a different dimension.

But with said move Goku would be moving the speed of light, so prior to the 'warp' move the probability of Madara catching Goku flat footed and not moving IMHO is not possible if you take into account regular feats that characters already managed by far stronger, faster, opponents.
Lastly, pretty much like you said, once in Madara's world, Goku could come back at will, and I dare anyone question a Saiyans chakra (Ki) tank vs. anyone within the entire Narutoverse.

Amuro
03-23-2011, 11:42 AM
I js wanted to say most of you guys are bitches. Editing your post after me and neo came to a agreement to make it seem like thats what you were saying the whole time. I cant respect any man that does shit like that. Im not even gonna quote any posts fck it.

Remember neo I said watch everone be like "thats what i was saying"? js wanted to point that out because i know how bitches act, i slowed down now but i whooped a lotta ass in my day lol. Im off it.

Goku couldnt come back if he couldnt sense anyone he knows. Thats just how it works. He could go back and fourth to King kais realm because he had already died once. So they are pretty much always in contact. Its not because Goku just can.

Vengeance
03-23-2011, 12:16 PM
Amuro just stop I mean really now it's simple as hell. Madara has nothing that can even touch Goku. Even if by some miracle he's able to warp Goku away Goku would simply return in an instant because he can fucking teleport. Meaning your whole argument for Madara even standing the slightest of chances just went out the window.

What's Madara gona do stab Goku with a kunai? Goku can fucking sword fight with a finger against an opponent that can blowup planets.

What's Madara gona do stay intangible forever? Madara has a limit of about 10 minutes before he's forced to go solid again.

Maybe Madara will warp Goku away with his sharingan? No wait already explained that one above.

Paper Bomb? Gotta be fucking kidding me.

Genjutsu? The Ki within Goku along with most people from DBZ is normally constantly flowing when in battle. Meaning Genjutsu wouldn't work.

Summoning the Kyuubi? In comparison to raw power the Kyuubi is like the equivalent to Raditz.

Anything else you wana add or can I stop now?

kael03
03-23-2011, 12:17 PM
Um...who edited their posts to show that they were right? Veng didn't, Num didn't, AMA only did to add a post by Veng and say "qft". So, who are these so-called "bitches" you're whining about?

jericho Uzimaki
03-23-2011, 12:28 PM
Hmmm let me see your putting someone that SO FAR has ONLY beaten up a girl vs. someone that is considered the MOST POWERFUL IN THE UNIVERSE!

Well if thats what were doing then i put jet Li vs. Jesus, No wait Forest Griffin vs. Buddha

last but not least, Muhammad Ali vs. Allah!!!

ask me anything
03-23-2011, 03:02 PM
I js wanted to say most of you guys are bitches. Editing your post after me and neo came to a agreement to make it seem like thats what you were saying the whole time. I cant respect any man that does shit like that. Im not even gonna quote any posts fck it.
Cry Moar nubcakes.

Remember neo I said watch everone be like "thats what i was saying"? js wanted to point that out because i know how bitches act,Really now? How do you get "Lyke that's Wut I wuz sayin'", out of "you're a fucking idiot, get off my internet". I never agreed with you...ever, so quit talking out your ass.

i slowed down now but i whooped a lotta ass in my day lol. Im off it.Oh you silly internet kids, and you're delusions of grandeur.

Goku couldnt come back if he couldnt sense anyone he knows. Thats just how it works. See this is exactly what I thought you going to say, in exactly the same wording. Damn your predictable. Goku could transport back to where Madara was because there WOULD be someone familiar to him there. MADARA.

Go ahead and try to prove me wrong. I'll just keep shitting on you for the lulz. I've got the next step planned out and everything. So bring it kid.

He could go back and fourth to King kais realm because he had already died once.Exactly!!! Goku already went there once so he knew where it was and could go there without any effort. So you just proved (once again) that if he's been somewhere before he can go back there easily. So Goku can go right back to where Madara was before he warped him away, since HE WAS JUST FUCKING THERE. I could keep proving you wrong, but you're doing such an excellent job of that yourself.

So they are pretty much always in contact.Wut?

Its not because Goku just can.Here Amuro, you need this bad son (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPYW5_NuvTo&feature=player_detailpage#t=24s). Now get your shit right and go pilot the gundam Goddammit.


What's Madara gona do stab Goku with a kunai? Goku can fucking sword fight with a finger against an opponent that can blowup planets.

LOL, that's a really good example. I remember him doing just that, when he had his little duel against Future Trunk, right after Trunks annihilated Frieza and King Cold.

So yeah, Goku's finger>>>Trunks>>>Frieza (who can blow up planets and shit)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>madara.


Anything else you wana add or can I stop now?Aww, don't stop yet. I just got my popcorn ready and everything.:(

Numinous
03-23-2011, 03:04 PM
@ JU: I didn't know any of the non-professional fighters you referred had any fighting experience at all. Well, Buddha might have, since it's a term for a person truly enlighten, not a specific person, but then again Buddhism isn't very prone to fighting (Shaolin Monastery is the exception, not the rule).

@ Amuro: Did we enter the Twilight Zone and we can't see the edits we apparently made? :confused:

The Special One
03-23-2011, 03:07 PM
What is this? I got Krillin going to town on the entirety of Naruto with just several pebbles in his pocket.

Vengeance
03-23-2011, 11:53 PM
LOL, that's a really good example. I remember him doing just that, when he had his little duel against Future Trunk, right after Trunks annihilated Frieza and King Cold.

So yeah, Goku's finger>>>Trunks>>>Frieza (who can blow up planets and shit)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>madara.
Exactly! I just wanted to put a little perspective to the bullshit this kid was trying to spit.

stubborn_d0nkey
03-24-2011, 02:42 AM
In character behavior still has Madara not getting hit. Who has hit Madara in the Manga so far other than the 4th, who is a genius with a t/s jutsu himself? Madara knows he is stronger than most of the shinobi out, even sasuke and naruto (at the time) Both of them attacked and failed. Madara hasnt underestimated anyone to the point where he has taken damage so i dont get what your saying there.


Um, rethink this.

Shadowblade
03-28-2011, 06:57 AM
I js wanted to say most of you guys are bitches. Editing your post after me and neo came to a agreement to make it seem like thats what you were saying the whole time. I cant respect any man that does shit like that. Im not even gonna quote any posts fck it.

Remember neo I said watch everone be like "thats what i was saying"? js wanted to point that out because i know how bitches act, i slowed down now but i whooped a lotta ass in my day lol. Im off it.

Goku couldnt come back if he couldnt sense anyone he knows. Thats just how it works. He could go back and fourth to King kais realm because he had already died once. So they are pretty much always in contact. Its not because Goku just can.

What is this. I don't even...

/fgt

I saw someone mentioned Madara can beat Goku in this thread. Whoever said that is on the same shit that Konnaha_Yellow_Flash guy is on.

Madara won't last against the Saibermen. The Saibermen is up to Par with Rikudo Sennin.

Vengeance
03-30-2011, 10:37 PM
Chouji vs Tenten

stubborn_d0nkey
03-31-2011, 01:31 AM
Ino wins

Vengeance
03-31-2011, 03:38 AM
Ino wins
But we're discussing Tenten master of the Banana Fan vs Chouji of the Butterfly Effect.

stubborn_d0nkey
03-31-2011, 06:15 AM
I know

superninja
03-31-2011, 10:05 AM
But we're discussing Tenten master of the Banana Fan vs Chouji of the Butterfly Effect.

Lets wait a couple of chapters to see how strong they are, if I had to guess I would say Chouji (if his speed got the same boost as his strength).

X2Z
04-04-2011, 01:14 AM
alright
:cool:

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 08:02 AM
this is a random fight but i was rewatching old naruto episodes and i was up to the chuunin exam . neji and kurenai seemed to have a moment after he beat down hinata.

so what do you guys think, neji vs kurenai during the chuunin exams. can neji take down a rookie jounin kurenai?

Wolverine
04-06-2011, 08:19 AM
We don't know the Byakugan's resistance to Genjutsu. That aside, Neji beats Kurenai. It's not even a contest.

NeoKakarott023
04-06-2011, 08:33 AM
We don't know the Byakugan's resistance to Genjutsu. That aside, Neji beats Kurenai. It's not even a contest.

Rookie Neji owns Kureani... I don't think so, just because she got own'd by Itachi, that dosen't make her totally garbage, Kishi only showd prolly 3 total moves out the Broad. Additionally at Jounin rank, at the time of the Chuunin Exams, I'd say she'd own all of them except Naruto with the Kyuubi's help. Somehow I don't believe they give out Jounin Ranking like candy.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 08:40 AM
neji wasnt a rookie genin during the chuunin exams and i believe it said kurenai was a rookie jounin, just to clarify since you said rookie neji neo

Wolverine
04-06-2011, 08:57 AM
Rookie Neji owns Kureani... I don't think so, just because she got own'd by Itachi, that dosen't make her totally garbage, Kishi only showd prolly 3 total moves out the Broad. Additionally at Jounin rank, at the time of the Chuunin Exams, I'd say she'd own all of them except Naruto with the Kyuubi's help. Somehow I don't believe they give out Jounin Ranking like candy.

My bad. I meant Neji beats Kurenai, not Rookie Neji. I overlooked that during the Chuunin Exam bit. I thought he was citing the Chuunin Exam as reference and hinted at a battle between current Neji and Kurenai when she on the active roster.

NeoKakarott023
04-06-2011, 09:39 AM
neji wasnt a rookie genin during the chuunin exams and i believe it said kurenai was a rookie jounin, just to clarify since you said rookie neji neo

So Neji was a Chuunin taking the Chuunin Exams? Thats what you said, because Rookie = less than Genin, and you can't be a Genin until after graduating. In any situation, what does that say about a villages ranks if someone heading to Genin graduation had such ability and skill that they could wipe out someone 2 ranks higher (chuunin, jounin)? Sure they're are special cases like Jinks, but Neji, wasn't that special back then in the grand scheme of things. He was like Naruto, & Sasuke, showing 'flashes' of greatness, it wasn't consistent because they were all too young, and inexperienced.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 10:06 AM
So Neji was a Chuunin taking the Chuunin Exams? Thats what you said, because Rookie = less than Genin, and you can't be a Genin until after graduating. In any situation, what does that say about a villages ranks if someone heading to Genin graduation had such ability and skill that they could wipe out someone 2 ranks higher (chuunin, jounin)? Sure they're are special cases like Jinks, but Neji, wasn't that special back then in the grand scheme of things. He was like Naruto, & Sasuke, showing 'flashes' of greatness, it wasn't consistent because they were all too young, and inexperienced.

i dont know what your first sentence or 2 is talking about. neji was not a rookie genin, he was not one of the konohas rookie 9 genin. he had already graduated a year prior to the rookie genin who entered the exam. neji in that exam far exceeded pretty much every genin. he was the top rookie in konoha after graduation and had another year of missions and training under gai when he was entering the chuunin exams. you think kurenai was ever top rookie, doubtful. i mean less then 3 years later neji becomes a jounin. she was a rookie jounin at the time. do you think ranks are truly what determines a winner in a fight, i dont. he beat that guy from the sound 5 who was very strong by himself. im pretty sure he would wipe the floor with most chuunin. there are shinobi like iruka who are chuunin. so i dont think its crazy to pit a genius like him with his skills and kkg against a rookie jounin such as kurenai

NeoKakarott023
04-06-2011, 11:23 AM
i dont know what your first sentence or 2 is talking about. neji was not a rookie genin, he was not one of the konohas rookie 9 genin. he had already graduated a year prior to the rookie genin who entered the exam. neji in that exam far exceeded pretty much every genin. he was the top rookie in konoha after graduation and had another year of missions and training under gai when he was entering the chuunin exams. you think kurenai was ever top rookie, doubtful. i mean less then 3 years later neji becomes a jounin. she was a rookie jounin at the time. do you think ranks are truly what determines a winner in a fight, i dont. he beat that guy from the sound 5 who was very strong by himself. im pretty sure he would wipe the floor with most chuunin. there are shinobi like iruka who are chuunin. so i dont think its crazy to pit a genius like him with his skills and kkg against a rookie jounin such as kurenai

You got Neji's past incorrect, he ran with Lee, and Ten Ten from the beginning, and didn't enter the Academy before anybody in his chuunin class.

" However, before discovering the true events and the whole story of his father’s death, Neji’s anger had followed him as he grew in life. Neji eventually entered the Ninja Academy and graduated at age 12. He was then placed on a team with Lee and TenTen under Might Guy. Over the following year they would take on several missions and Guy would offer his Taijutsu secrets to his students. Only Lee took him up on his offer though. A year after graduating Guy entered his team into the Chuunin Exam."

http://www.leafninja.com/fullbio.php?p=Hyuuga_Neji

Additionally, these are his stats back then...

Hyuga Neji
Ninja Registration Serial Number: 012587
Ninja Academy Graduation Age: 12
Birthday: July 3rd (13-years-old, Cancer)
Height: 159.2cm Weight: 45.8kg Blood Type: O
Personality: Emotionless, realistic
Specialized Technique: Kaiten, Hakke 64 Hands
Desired Opponent: Hyuga Hiashi, Uzumaki Naruto
Hobby: Emptying his mind [Literally "thinking empty-mindedly," but its literal meaning in English sounds like something Naruto does all the time XD]

and here's Kurenai's,

Abilities
Genjutsu Specialist

The full extent of Kurenai's abilities are predominantly unknown. But, her skill with genjutsu are so vast that they are said to rival even those of Itachi Uchiha.[9] Most of her techniques focus around flora and fauna; primarily using large trees to bind opponents as well as flower petals for various reasons.

In an anime episode it was shown that she is even able to enter the subconscious of a person to see their true nature. She is also able to simultaneously affect multiple opponents with her techniques, as seen during her fight with Kisame Hoshigaki and Itachi Uchiha. Itachi, a genjutsu master himself, has also praised her skills.[10]

Stats Edit
Databook Ninjutsu Taijutsu Genjutsu Intelligence Strength Speed Stamina Hand seals Total
First 3.5 4 5 4 2 4 2 4.5 29
Second 4 4 5 4 2 4 2 4.5 29.5
Third 4 4 5 4 2 4 2 4.5 29.5

IMHO young Neji wouldn't win, he could try hard, but the genjutsu would eventually get him.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 11:53 AM
You got Neji's past incorrect.

again, dont know what you are talking about. all i ever mentioned about his past was that he was not a rookie genin when entering the chuunin exam which was said to calrify because you called him a rookie. it was clearly said he graduated a year earlier and was a not part of konohas rookie 9.

on the actual fight im not sure genjutsu would work on the byakugan and thats kurenais greatest strength. her speed really isnt anything that cant be handled and she doesnt seem to be any more intelligent then neji, infact neji seems to have the advantage there with the use of his byakugan. he also clearly has the advantage in hand to hand combat. i think it would be a good fight.

Wolverine
04-06-2011, 12:03 PM
@Neo: We all agree that Kurenai is good with Genjutsu but you're over-hyping her skill in it. Her skill with Genjutsu matching Itachi Uchiha? Now that is a bit far-fetched to even think of.

kael03
04-06-2011, 12:29 PM
@Neo: We all agree that Kurenai is good with Genjutsu but you're over-hyping her skill in it. Her skill with Genjutsu matching Itachi Uchiha? Now that is a bit far-fetched to even think of.

According to the databook her skill in Genjutsu rival's Itachi's. I'll just be damned if I can't find the damn translation.

NeoKakarott023
04-06-2011, 12:33 PM
again, dont know what you are talking about. all i ever mentioned about his past was that he was not a rookie genin when entering the chuunin exam which was said to calrify because you called him a rookie. it was clearly said he graduated a year earlier and was a not part of konohas rookie 9.

on the actual fight im not sure genjutsu would work on the byakugan and thats kurenais greatest strength. her speed really isnt anything that cant be handled and she doesnt seem to be any more intelligent then neji, infact neji seems to have the advantage there with the use of his byakugan. he also clearly has the advantage in hand to hand combat. i think it would be a good fight.

Um your correct on Neji entering before the others, I misread that, but I've never heard that Hyuuga's were immune, or has some great defense vs. genjutsu, i've never seen that before, or even heard of it.

@Neo: We all agree that Kurenai is good with Genjutsu but you're over-hyping her skill in it. Her skill with Genjutsu matching Itachi Uchiha? Now that is a bit far-fetched to even think of.

That was copied from LeafNinja a Naruto site, those aren't my words. What I got from it was that she was beneath Itachi, specifically because of his Sharingan Hax. And basically beyond Uchiha's she's the strongest genjutsu user in the manga. Anybody got somebody NON-Uchiha better, whip them out. Lets discuss.

Keep in mind they're are A LOT of characters with hax's etc., they're just not seen, its on paper. Don't assume because someone hasn't battled, or 'seemingly' couldn't be badss ain't, this is a manga where lots of people are on the sidelines waiting for a turn they'll never get.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 12:34 PM
According to the databook her skill in Genjutsu rival's Itachi's. I'll just be damned if I can't find the damn translation.

didnt he see right through her genjutsu and reverse it, that would lead me to believe his skill is greater, also he has more powerful genjutsu with the use of his sharingan.

kael03
04-06-2011, 12:36 PM
didnt he see right through her genjutsu and reverse it, that would lead me to believe his skill is greater,

Who said that was her strongest genjutsu?

also he has more powerful genjutsu with the use of his sharingan.

Except Tsukuyomi is extremely difficult to use, even with the training he's done with it. The complexity of it causes a severe drain on his chakra and further accelerates the degeneration of his eyes while causing him pain.

NeoKakarott023
04-06-2011, 12:39 PM
didnt he see right through her genjutsu and reverse it, that would lead me to believe his skill is greater, also he has more powerful genjutsu with the use of his sharingan.

You're in disagreement not with Kael, or I, but Kishimoto's Databook. We didn't write this stuff.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 12:44 PM
Who said that was her strongest genjutsu?

Except Tsukuyomi is extremely difficult to use, even with the training he's done with it. The complexity of it causes a severe drain on his chakra and further accelerates the degeneration of his eyes while causing him pain.

i never said it was her strongest, i said he saw through her genjutsu right away and reversed it on her. that would lead me to believe he is more skilled in genjutsu.

yea but its more powerful genjutsu which is all i claimed, he has more powerful genjutsu attacks.

You're in disagreement not with Kael, or I, but Kishimoto's Databook. We didn't write this stuff.

im in disagreement with anyone who thinks she has the same skill as itachi in genjutsu.

kael03
04-06-2011, 12:48 PM
i never said it was her strongest, i said he saw through her genjutsu right away and reversed it on her. that would lead me to believe he is more skilled in genjutsu.

I would agree if she went all out on him. But she didn't, so your assumption is just that, an assumption. An assumption with poor evidence I might add.

yea but its more powerful genjutsu which is all i claimed, he has more powerful genjutsu attacks.

He has 1 more powerful genjutsu. We don't know everything in Kurenai's arsenal. But the fact that it was stated in the databook that her skills rival Itachi's makes your argument a losing one.

im in disagreement with anyone who thinks she has the same skill as itachi in genjutsu.

So you're in disagreement with the author of the manga?

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 12:55 PM
I would agree if she went all out on him. But she didn't, so your assumption is just that, an assumption. An assumption with poor evidence I might add.

how is just an assumption with poor evidence, im basing it on what we have seen in the manga. itachi seeing through a kurenais genjutsu right away and reversing it onto the her is a pretty good indicator of greater skill in genjutsu. do you think she could have reversed a genjutsu on him because i dont.


He has 1 more powerful genjutsu. We don't know everything in Kurenai's arsenal. But the fact that it was stated in the databook that her skills rival Itachi's makes your argument a losing one.

i really dont care what the databook says, i go by what is in the manga. havent people even found numerous contradictions in the manga to the databook.

So you're in disagreement with the author of the manga?

disagreement with the databook if it says she is as skilled as itachi in genjutsu

kael03
04-06-2011, 12:59 PM
how is just an assumption, im basing it on what we have seen in the manga. itachi seeing through a kurenais genjutsu right away and reversing it onto the her is a pretty good indicator of greater skill in genjutsu. do you think she could have reversed a genjutsu on him because i dont.

Again, she didn't go all out on Itachi so you can't say she was using her strongest Genjutsu against him.


i really dont care what the databook says, i go by what is in the manga. havent people even found numerous contradictions in the manga to the databook.

Only contradiction so far has been Mangetsu, but that's not the point. Point is you're trying to overhype Itachi when it's been stated by Kishi that Kurenai's skill in genjutsu rivals Itachi's.

disagreement with the databook if it says she is as skilled as itachi in genjutsu

So you're in disagreement with the author of the manga, since Kishi is the one that writes the databooks.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
04-06-2011, 01:07 PM
I would agree if she went all out on him. But she didn't, so your assumption is just that, an assumption. An assumption with poor evidence I might add.

No, ur assuming tha Kurenai wasnt using her strongest genjutsu... However, she was against not just an Uchiha who are the genjutsu Kings, but the King of them too.... She knew who itachi was and what he was capable of (killing the entire clan with his power).. So..... why in the world would she not give it all she has in order to survive such a threat??

Ur Idea that Kurenai was Holding back is plain Illogical considering the circumstances.... Logic dictates she was in fact giving it her all which is why she shat her self when it failedhttp://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-141/page014.html

He has 1 more powerful genjutsu. We don't know everything in Kurenai's arsenal. But the fact that it was stated in the databook that her skills rival Itachi's makes your argument a losing one.

LMAO, BS bS BS!!!! The DB never said that!!! Itachi deflected her genjutsu like it was nothing with the regular SG so theres no comparison.... He genjutsu is more comparable to his finger genjutsu he used on naruto....

So you're in disagreement with the author of the manga?

Nope, never said, it never happened u making random claims again... Wheres this so called DB info??? Where is it???? Thats what I thought, it doesnt exist!!!

Get on with that shit... And Chunnin Neji would kick Jounin Kurenais ass because genjutsu is useless against the BG much less its greatest wielder... I mean a random shinobi who gained one BG Immediately saw through a genjutsu as strong as Doryuku (shishuis super mind control gen).. so neji will see through anything she can create no prob....

How about Minato vs Killer bee with samehada.....

NeoKakarott023
04-06-2011, 01:08 PM
Again, she didn't go all out on Itachi so you can't say she was using her strongest Genjutsu against him.




Only contradiction so far has been Mangetsu, but that's not the point. Point is you're trying to overhype Itachi when it's been stated by Kishi that Kurenai's skill in genjutsu rivals Itachi's.



So you're in disagreement with the author of the manga, since Kishi is the one that writes the databooks.

Therefore anything you say will be useless to him in his world. Imagination is a great thing, but if its in art or script then its fact, like this..."The full extent of Kurenai's abilities are predominantly unknown. But, her skill with genjutsu are so vast that they are said to rival even those of Itachi Uchiha." Thank you for the information Kishi, ABOUT CHARACTERS YOU CREATED IN YOUR MANGA.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 01:08 PM
Again, she didn't go all out on Itachi so you can't say she was using her strongest Genjutsu against him..

i dont know why you are assuming she didnt go all out on itachi but even if she wasnt thats not the point. the point is he saw through her genjutsu and reversed it on her with ease. that indicates greater skill to see through someones attack and reverse it with ease

kael03
04-06-2011, 01:13 PM
Nope, never said, it never happened u making random claims again... Wheres this so called DB info??? Where is it???? Thats what I thought, it doesnt exist!!!

Wanna bet?

Yuuhi Kurenai Jounin Pg.163

Ninja Registration: 010881
Birthday: June 11th (28 Gemini)
Height: 169.1cm weight: 54.4kg, b/t: AB
Personality: Unyielding, honest and simple
Likes: Soju, Vodka, salted Octopus, Taking a glass of wine at night(or dinner)
Dislikes: Cake
Specialties: Types of Genjutsu

The peaceful Kunoichi who combines wit and beauty, leads astray with her Genjutsu
The Kunoichi has a firm aloofness...and is referred to as 'image', Kakashi's banter causes her cheeks to blush, making her
unexpectedly except her usual purity. She excels in genjutsu, catching Itachi with it, a game between their equal genjutsu skills developed.

"It ends with this"

Well would you look at that? Says "equal genjutsu skills".

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 01:13 PM
The full extent of Kurenai's abilities are predominantly unknown. But, her skill with genjutsu are so vast that they are said to rival even those of Itachi Uchiha." .

they are said by who to rival itachi uchiha? is this talking about people inside the manga saying this?

kael03
04-06-2011, 01:13 PM
they are said by who to rival itachi uchiha? is this talking about people inside the manga saying this?

Read my post and shut the hell up. Same goes for KYFail.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 01:17 PM
Wanna bet?



Well would you look at that? Says "equal genjutsu skills".

wtf is it even talking about, did you take it out of context? the thing you bolded seems to be talking about when he was still in the village anyway.

kael03
04-06-2011, 01:19 PM
wtf is it even talking about, did you take it out of context?

.../facepalm

You seriously can't comprehend "She excels in genjutsu, catching Itachi in it, a game between their EQUAL GENJUTSU SKILLS developed."? Please stop posting.

Konnaha_yellow_flash
04-06-2011, 01:21 PM
.../facepalm

You seriously can't comprehend "She excels in genjutsu, catching Itachi in it, a game between their EQUAL GENJUTSU SKILLS developed."? Please stop posting.

Whats that from??

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 01:22 PM
.../facepalm

You seriously can't comprehend "She excels in genjutsu, catching Itachi in it, a game between their EQUAL GENJUTSU SKILLS developed."? Please stop posting.

why dont you post it in context, when is it even talking about that they had this game between there equal genjtusu skills develop. it seems like it was talking about when he was in the village before he left

NeoKakarott023
04-06-2011, 01:24 PM
i dont know why you are assuming she didnt go all out on itachi but even if she wasnt thats not the point. the point is he saw through her genjutsu and reversed it on her with ease. that indicates greater skill to see through someones attack and reverse it with ease

Its a known fact that the sharingan is the ultimate hax in the area of genjutsu, no one is arguing that fact. But to disgrace her as a nobody because the author didn't fully utilize her to this point dosen't make a lot of sense either. A lot of these NEW characters from the war have never been seen before, and some never even heard of before, but we're gonna hype them simply because we like them better... eh a lil young for me that kind of thinking, I like reality better. So the whole roundabout with this is Neji during the Chuunin Exams IMHO had zero chance vs. Kurenai, I won't debate Itachi vs. Kurenai because there was 1 genjutsu, and 1 reversal, and nothing else happened. Other than that I've seen only 1 of her attacks. Kishimoto created her, her stats, and they say Neji mindfucked quick.

kael03
04-06-2011, 01:46 PM
wtf is it even talking about, did you take it out of context?

It's her entire databook entry. Nothing to be taken out of context since it's her biography.

the thing you bolded seems to be talking about when he was still in the village anyway.

...how do you figure when the only time we've seen her catch him in a genjutsu was when he and Kisame were leaving the village?

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 01:51 PM
It's her entire databook entry. Nothing to be taken out of context since it's her biography.



...how do you figure when the only time we've seen her catch him in a genjutsu was when he and Kisame were leaving the village?

you said and this at the end which was bolded, so it seemed you left out the part before it and it doesnt seem to fit in with what you wrote ebfore it either, so if thats true its out of context.

it looks like to me it meant that she caught up to him in genjutsu skills and then a game between there equal skills developed. which would be when he was sitll in the village before he left. when could a game have developed between there skills that were equal in the 2 sec it took for him to see through her genjutsu, reverse it and have her finished if not for kakashi.

kael03
04-06-2011, 01:55 PM
Dude, seriously, stop. You clearly are trying to mess with the context to make this argument go your way. Fact of the matter is, Kishi called Kurenai's genjutsu skills equal to Itachi's. You can't read "game" and think "kids" when the only time we've seen them use genjutsu on each other was when Itachi and Kisame were leaving the village and Itachi even praised her for her skills.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 02:02 PM
Dude, seriously, stop. You clearly are trying to mess with the context to make this argument go your way. Fact of the matter is, Kishi called Kurenai's genjutsu skills equal to Itachi's. You can't read "game" and think "kids" when the only time we've seen them use genjutsu on each other was when Itachi and Kisame were leaving the village and Itachi even praised her for her skills.

why do you always say that, why dont you stop. you are the one who is claiming things that are out of context. the way im reading what you wrote makes sense, the way you are doesnt, how can it be talking about tehre equal skills and a game developing when she cast the genjutsu in the manga. he saw through it and reversed it in 2sec.

kael03
04-06-2011, 02:08 PM
why do you always say that, why dont you stop. you are the one who is claiming things that are out of context. the way im reading what you wrote makes sense, the way you are doesnt, how can it be talking about tehre equal skills and a game developing when she cast the genjutsu in the manga. he saw through it and reversed it in 2sec.

Ok, I'll try this one more time in a way I'm sure you can understand:

Kishi, the author of the manga and the databooks, said in his databook entry for Kurenai that she and Itachi had equal skills in genjutsu. Forget the "game" part, since you obviously can't seem to grasp that she wasn't trying to kill him, only stall him long enough for ANBU to arrive, and he wasn't trying to kill her, just occupy her long enough to get out of the village before Sasuke could sense he was there.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 02:15 PM
Ok, I'll try this one more time in a way I'm sure you can understand:

Kishi, the author of the manga and the databooks, said in his databook entry for Kurenai that she and Itachi had equal skills in genjutsu. Forget the "game" part, since you obviously can't seem to grasp that she wasn't trying to kill him, only stall him long enough for ANBU to arrive, and he wasn't trying to kill her, just occupy her long enough to get out of the village before Sasuke could sense he was there.

i dont just take parts of a sentence and say oh teh author said that, i actually read the whole sentence and take meaning from its entirety. what you are claiming doesnt make sense and does not show in the manga either.

hmmm, looked like she was trying to kill him to me, you know since she said its over and had a kunai she was about to attack with. i dont know where you get these assumptions like she wasnt going all out, wasnt trying to kill him. she didnt even know anbu was coming or kakashi, gai called for anbu.

Wolverine
04-06-2011, 02:17 PM
@Kael: While your post about the databook entry did throw me off a bit, you have to agree that Kurenai didn't catch Itachi in the Genjutsu. He saw through it rightaway and just played her. I know its the databook and its the most authentic source of information and I'm not going to dispute it anymore and not because Kishi said it. The man has overlooked his own information with utmost convenience as and when he's pleased and this really is not the first time we disagree with Kishi. ;)

NeoKakarott023
04-06-2011, 02:23 PM
why do you always say that, why dont you stop. you are the one who is claiming things that are out of context. the way im reading what you wrote makes sense, the way you are doesnt, how can it be talking about tehre equal skills and a game developing when she cast the genjutsu in the manga. he saw through it and reversed it in 2sec.

Not doing it, but gonna explain beforehand, this is why people are called 'Fanboy's'. Because someone has taking a liking to a character, read his information/stats, imagined what they wanted to happen, and create a whole new world with new possibilities for said character. Once again, thats nice, but it's not reality, Kishimoto created the characters, stats, and bios, because you can't understand why he stated Kurenai's abilities, in the neighborhood, or on par with Itachi is completely irrevalant. Thats something YOU have to work out, because Kishi's getting paid with his creation of Kurenai with that extra stuff about Itachi in his databook, without explaination, because he didn't deem it necessary. Say I don't like what Kishi did here or there, but don't say it ain't so, when actually it can only be like Kishi said, he made it.

kael03
04-06-2011, 02:25 PM
I know he reversed her genjutsu and I'm not disputing that. But he did say that a genjutsu of that level wouldn't work on him, at the same time as commending her skills in genjutsu. The databook, and therefore Kishi, has stated their skills in genjutsu were equal, and the one time we saw them fight they weren't fighting to kill. It wasn't until Kakashi arrived that Itachi went full out with Tsukuyomi.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 02:28 PM
Not doing it, but gonna explain beforehand, this is why people are called 'Fanboy's'. Because someone has taking a liking to a character, read his information/stats, imagined what they wanted to happen, and create a whole new world with new possibilities for said character. Once again, thats nice, but it's not reality, Kishimoto created the characters, stats, and bios, because you can't understand why he stated Kurenai's abilities, in the neighborhood, or on par with Itachi is completely irrevalant. Thats something YOU have to work out, because Kishi's getting paid with his creation of Kurenai with that extra stuff about Itachi in his databook, without explaination, because he didn't deem it necessary. Say I don't like what Kishi did here or there, but don't say it ain't so, when actually it can only be like Kishi said, he made it.

this has nothing to do with being a fan boy, its based on the manga and what kael posted does not effect the claim im making based on the manga unless he can show me it in context in which it does.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 02:33 PM
I know he reversed her genjutsu and I'm not disputing that. But he did say that a genjutsu of that level wouldn't work on him, at the same time as commending her skills in genjutsu. The databook, and therefore Kishi, has stated their skills in genjutsu were equal, and the one time we saw them fight they weren't fighting to kill. It wasn't until Kakashi arrived that Itachi went full out with Tsukuyomi.


i never said you were disputing that. show me in context where it says they are equal at that time, you cant because it does not say that and it wouldnt make sense since he saw through her attack and reversed it with ease. what was posted from the databooks makes sense if it was referring to when they were both in the village still.

i dont know where you get the idea she wasnt fighting to kill, she said its over and attempted to attack after having him in the genjutsu. she did not know anyone else was coming either.

kael03
04-06-2011, 02:42 PM
There's no context to be had when the author of the manga says something to be fact. Kishi said they're skills in genjutsu were equal. Context doesn't matter because the author of the manga has the final say. Itachi reversed a genjutsu then said that one of THAT PARTICULAR LEVEL wouldn't work on him. Kurenai then broke the same genjutsu, and Itachi praised her skills.

You claim you aren't being a fanboy, but that's exactly what you're doing when you're going against what the author of the manga states to be fact.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 02:55 PM
There's no context to be had when the author of the manga says something to be fact. Kishi said they're skills in genjutsu were equal. Context doesn't matter because the author of the manga has the final say. Itachi reversed a genjutsu then said that one of THAT PARTICULAR LEVEL wouldn't work on him. Kurenai then broke the same genjutsu, and Itachi praised her skills.

You claim you aren't being a fanboy, but that's exactly what you're doing when you're going against what the author of the manga states to be fact.

taking a few words out of a sentence can change its meaning and is taking it out of context. for the millionth time post the whole thing and show me where it says it. what you posted could mean something totally different then what you are claiming and makes more sense if it did based on the manga

NeoKakarott023
04-06-2011, 03:02 PM
There's no context to be had when the author of the manga says something to be fact. Kishi said they're skills in genjutsu were equal. Context doesn't matter because the author of the manga has the final say. Itachi reversed a genjutsu then said that one of THAT PARTICULAR LEVEL wouldn't work on him. Kurenai then broke the same genjutsu, and Itachi praised her skills.

You claim you aren't being a fanboy, but that's exactly what you're doing when you're going against what the author of the manga states to be fact.

Yeah, just to let you know that battle was between Neji Chuunin Exam vs. Kurenai, I'm not dealing with 'my feelings about Itachi', they're always gonna be < Kishi's created facts because its HIS character, why would they do what each fan wished?

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 03:06 PM
styles makes fights, i think neji during the chuunin exams gives kurenai during the chuunin exams a good fight, as i said already byakugan i believe would neutralize her greatest strength in genjutsu. intelliegnce combined with byakugan > her intelligence. his hand to hand combat is greater then hers and her ninjutsu is probably better than his although it hasnt been shown. neither has his.

Wolverine
04-06-2011, 03:08 PM
styles makes fights, i think neji during the chuunin exams gives kurenai a good fight during the chuunin exams

I don't agree with that. The Jounins reached Neji in a flash before he could land the killing blow on Hinata. There is no way he could even follow their movements let alone fight them to beat them. Kurenai may have been the newest Jounin that time, but she was still a Jounin, while Neji a 13 year old Genin who was no Uchiha Itachi... an ANBU Commander at the same age.

kael03
04-06-2011, 03:10 PM
taking a few words out of a sentence can change its meaning and is taking it out of context. for the millionth time post the whole thing and show me where it says it. what you posted could mean something totally different then what you are claiming and makes more sense if it did based on the manga

What I posted was the entire databook entry. I've said that before. Nothing was taken out of it.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 03:12 PM
I don't agree with that. The Jounins reached Neji in a flash before he could land the killing blow on Hinata. There is no way he could even follow their movements let alone fight them to beat them. Kurenai may have been the newest Jounin that time, but she was still a Jounin, while Neji a 13 year old Genin who was no Uchiha Itachi... an ANBU Commander at the same age.

this was after being in the forrest of death for numerous days, then fighting hinata directly after in the preliminarys. its not like he was fresh and lets be honest he has the byakugan, if he had it activated he obviously would see her movements. shes not that fast

kael03
04-06-2011, 03:12 PM
Yeah, just to let you know that battle was between Neji Chuunin Exam vs. Kurenai, I'm not dealing with 'my feelings about Itachi', they're always gonna be < Kishi's created facts because its HIS character, why would they do what each fan wished?

I know it was about Neji vs Kurenai. But someone brought up Kurenai's genjutsu skills, and I said they were said to rival Itachi's according to the databook. Animefan is being an Itachi fanboy and refuses to admit the databook stated they were equal skilled in genjutsu, even when I posted it.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 03:13 PM
What I posted was the entire databook entry. I've said that before. Nothing was taken out of it.

and as i arleady said if thats the whole thing then what you are claiming doesnt make sense, it makes more sense that it was referring to them before he left the village.

kael03
04-06-2011, 03:15 PM
and as i arleady said if thats the whole thing then what you are claiming doesnt make sense, it makes more sense that it was referring to them before he left the village.

...how does it not make sense? Kishi said Kurenai excels in genjutsu, which everyone already knew. He then compared her skills to Itachi's, who was one of the top genjutsu users in the village, and said their skills were equal. What part of that doesn't make sense to you?

This shit isn't rocket science. Kishi said their skills were equal so they're equal.

Wolverine
04-06-2011, 03:18 PM
this was after being in the forrest of death for numerous days, then fighting hinata directly after in the preliminarys. its not like he was fresh and lets be honest he has the byakugan, if he had it activated he obviously would see her movements. shes not that fast

You do realize we're not talking about matching her move for move. We're talking about beating her?

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 03:32 PM
...how does it not make sense? Kishi said Kurenai excels in genjutsu, which everyone already knew. He then compared her skills to Itachi's, who was one of the top genjutsu users in the village, and said their skills were equal. What part of that doesn't make sense to you?

This shit isn't rocket science. Kishi said their skills were equal so they're equal.

"She excels in genjutsu, catching Itachi in it, a game between their equal genjutsu skills developed."

this is what the actual context was you claim. i have explained like 10x times already. in the manga he sees right through her genjutsu and reverses it like its childs play. this is indication of him being on a higher level not to mention he has more powerful genjutsu abilities as well.

you claim that catching itachi in it refers to when she had itachi in the genjutsu in the manga, i disagree becuase the next part about a game between there equal genjutsu skills developing from that doesnt make any sense since he saw through her genjutsu, reversed it and had her defeated in seconds. if she caught itachi in it means while he was still in the village she caught up to itachis level and a game between their equal skills developed that would make more sense

NeoKakarott023
04-06-2011, 03:36 PM
Just to show the difference between Jounin & pre-Genin... Rock Lee was about to be Gaara's 2nd victim in Desert Coffin with Might Gai jumps down with the quicks, and smacks his sand away EFFORTLESSLY. Get the whole picture in your mind before you start saying 'so what'. THIS, (Gaara) was one of few named shinobi that had killed before, had a bijuu in him, and Gai didn't 'power up', or go 'gates' to stop his attempt at his 'finishing' move. People really need to stop living off of what they believe simply because they 'like' a character, and compare him/her for real with whats in ink. Gennins aren't in Jounins neighborhood.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 03:40 PM
Just to show the difference between Jounin & pre-Genin... Rock Lee was about to be Gaara's 2nd victim in Desert Coffin with Might Gai jumps down with the quicks, and smacks his sand away EFFORTLESSLY. Get the whole picture in your mind before you start saying 'so what'. THIS, (Gaara) was one of few named shinobi that had killed before, had a bijuu in him, and Gai didn't 'power up', or go 'gates' to stop his attempt at his 'finishing' move. People really need to stop living off of what they believe simply because they 'like' a character, and compare him/her for real with whats in ink. Gennins aren't in Jounins neighborhood.

1. gai is stronger then kurenai, 2. lee probably could have dont the same to the sand as well if he was not already half dead. 3. gaara was extremely worn out when he attacked. 4. styles makes fights. byakugan will neutralizer her greatest strength. he is superior in hand to hand combat and insight with the byakygan.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 03:47 PM
seriously stop comparing how another jounin did against a genin, two completely differnet fighters, styles, and levels. not even relevant.

you think lee could beat kurenai with out genjutsu? i think he would beat her. opening those gates he would beat her badly

NeoKakarott023
04-06-2011, 03:51 PM
1. gai is stronger then kurenai, 2. lee probably could have dont the same to the sand as well if he was not already half dead. 3. gaara was extremely worn out when he attacked. 4. styles makes fights. byakugan will neutralizer her greatest strength. he is superior in hand to hand combat and insight with the byakygan.

I'll use your formula with my words before...

1. Kurnai is stronger than Neji

2. (BULLSHIT LOL) Lee never 'smacked the sand away', he was running from it, dodging it, and getting battered by it, LMAO, and all of these reasons was why he was 'half dead', before getting his bones crushed, LMAO Rock Lee woulda did shit.

3. BULLSHIT AGAIN, Gaara had just snapped bones in that Rock Bitch and he was going all out for the kill, so now he sent 'tired sand' because thats how it is in your world? LMAO. Dude deal in facts. Like for instance, stop guessing, and assuming, and post ANYWHERE beyond your belief that Hyuuga's are invunerable to genjutsu please. Otherwise all you're doing is arguing with people about shit in your mind, but not in the manga.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 03:53 PM
would lee beat kurenai with out genjutsu?

i think lee would beat her badly, but you would say oh he is jsut a genin

Wolverine
04-06-2011, 03:54 PM
Animefan... now you're just rambling like a delusional fanboy.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 03:56 PM
I'll use your formula with my words before...

1. Kurnai is stronger than Neji

2. (BULLSHIT LOL) Lee never 'smacked the sand away', he was running from it, dodging it, and getting battered by it, LMAO, and all of these reasons was why he was 'half dead', before getting his bones crushed, LMAO Rock Lee woulda did shit.

3. BULLSHIT AGAIN, Gaara had just snapped bones in that Rock Bitch and he was going all out for the kill, so now he sent 'tired sand' because thats how it is in your world? LMAO. Dude deal in facts. Like for instance, stop guessing, and assuming, and post ANYWHERE beyond your belief that Hyuuga's are invunerable to genjutsu please. Otherwise all you're doing is arguing with people about shit in your mind, but not in the manga.


1. maybe, i think it would be a good fight

2.lee was half dead becuase of his own techniques, not damage done by gaara that that point

3.gaara went for the kill while lying on his back, he used the actual gourd to go for the kill because he was so beaten up..byakugan > sharingan in insight, it would see through genjutsu

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 03:58 PM
Animefan... now you're just rambling like a delusional fanboy.

so if kurenai was not allowed to use genjutsu you dont think lee could beat her then? i think hes faster then her, better hand to hand combat and could have opened the gates and beaten ther badly

what do you say to this??

Wolverine
04-06-2011, 04:13 PM
so if kurenai was not allowed to use genjutsu you dont think lee could beat her then? i think hes faster then her, better hand to hand combat and could have opened the gates and beaten ther badly

what do you say to this??

What I want to know is why SHOULD Kurenai be disallowed to use Genjutsu as a prerequisite to beating Neji.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 04:17 PM
What I want to know is why SHOULD Kurenai be disallowed to use Genjutsu as a prerequisite to beating Neji.

so if kurenai was not allowed to use genjutsu you dont think lee could beat her then? i think hes faster then her, better hand to hand combat and could have opened the gates and beaten ther badly

what do you say to this??

just answer what you think.

Wolverine
04-06-2011, 04:22 PM
so if kurenai was not allowed to use genjutsu you dont think lee could beat her then? i think hes faster then her, better hand to hand combat and could have opened the gates and beaten ther badly

what do you say to this??

just answer what you think.

We both know what will happen if she were disallowed to use her Genjutsu. That's beside the point. But then, this would just be a farce... not a proper justified victory.

If I were to ask you to take away Lee's speed and Kurenai's Genjutsu, then what would be your answer? These are pointless questions.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 04:28 PM
We both know what will happen if she were disallowed to use her Genjutsu. That's beside the point. But then, this would just be a farce... not a proper justified victory.

If I were to ask you to take away Lee's speed and Kurenai's Genjutsu, then what would be your answer? These are pointless questions.

its not pointless, its to show that a genin can beat a jounin. her only thing she has that sets her apart from people is her genjutsu ability. if neji can neutralize it with his byakugan i think it would be a good fight. unlike neo who is claiming all these ridiculous things and you are saying im just fanning. styles make fights and i think its a bad fight stylistically for kurenai

Wolverine
04-06-2011, 04:34 PM
its not pointless, its to show that a genin can beat a jounin. her only thing she has that sets her apart from people is her genjutsu ability. if neji can neutralize it with his byakugan i think it would be a good fight. unlike neo who is claiming all these ridiculous things and you are saying im just fanning. styles make fights and i think its a bad fight stylistically for kurenai

That's not a Genin beating a Jounin. That's a Genin being awarded a half-assed victory because the Jounin couldn't go all out on him due to fear of killing him/her.

NeoKakarott023
04-06-2011, 04:35 PM
its not pointless, its to show that a genin can beat a jounin. her only thing she has that sets her apart from people is her genjutsu ability. if neji can neutralize it with his byakugan i think it would be a good fight. unlike neo who is claiming all these ridiculous things and you are saying im just fanning. styles make fights and i think its a bad fight stylistically for kurenai

No its not pointless, its not even believable with true manga faktz.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 04:36 PM
That's not a Genin beating a Jounin. That's a Genin being awarded a half-assed victory because the Jounin couldn't go all out on him due to fear of killing him/her.

she can do what ever she wants as long as its not genjutsu. she would lose i believe though. neji has the ability i believe to counter that genjutsu with his byakugan so it would be like the same scenario i gave with lee

kael03
04-06-2011, 04:36 PM
"She excels in genjutsu, catching Itachi in it, a game between their equal genjutsu skills developed."

this is what the actual context was you claim. i have explained like 10x times already. in the manga he sees right through her genjutsu and reverses it like its childs play. this is indication of him being on a higher level not to mention he has more powerful genjutsu abilities as well.

you claim that catching itachi in it refers to when she had itachi in the genjutsu in the manga, i disagree becuase the next part about a game between there equal genjutsu skills developing from that doesnt make any sense since he saw through her genjutsu, reversed it and had her defeated in seconds. if she caught itachi in it means while he was still in the village she caught up to itachis level and a game between their equal skills developed that would make more sense

/headdesk. Holy fuck I didn't think anyone could be this dense.

For the last time, there was NO CONTEXT to that statement. That statement wasn't set in a particular time or fight. It was a blanket statement of her skills by comparing them to one of the best genjutsu users in Konoha. Kishi stated, in his own work, that Kurenai's skill with genjutsu rivals Itachi's. The genjutsu you keep alluding to Itachi flat out stated was below him, I've never argued that fact. Itachi said "a genjutsu of that level is useless against me", and then proceeded to say "as expected of Kurenai" in a form of praise when she broke his counter genjutsu, which means "BITCH STEP UP YOUR GAME!". He was telling her to stop holding back and take him seriously.

You keep fanboying Itachi when the damn author has proved you wrong. Give it up already.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 04:40 PM
/headdesk. Holy fuck I didn't think anyone could be this dense.

For the last time, there was NO CONTEXT to that statement. That statement wasn't set in a particular time or fight. It was a blanket statement of her skills by comparing them to one of the best genjutsu users in Konoha. Kishi stated, in his own work, that Kurenai's skill with genjutsu rivals Itachi's. The genjutsu you keep alluding to Itachi flat out stated was below him, I've never argued that fact. Itachi said "a genjutsu of that level is useless against me", and then proceeded to say "as expected of Kurenai" in a form of praise when she broke his counter genjutsu, which means "BITCH STEP UP YOUR GAME!". He was telling her to stop holding back and take him seriously.

You keep fanboying Itachi when the damn author has proved you wrong. Give it up already.

my response is the exact post you quoted

kael03
04-06-2011, 04:44 PM
my response is the exact post you quoted

Ok, let's look at the fight you keep using. She used a genjutsu, which was countered and reversed onto her. Not arguing that. Itachi then stated that the level of the genjutsu she used originally was useless against him. Not arguing that. She then broke his counter genjutsu and avoided Itachi's attack, to which he praised her by saying "As expected of Kurenai". All this proves, is that he knew she could do better than that to take him down and was trying to goad her into doing better.

You need to face the facts that, while Itachi is one of the top genjutsu users from Konoha, Kurenai rivaled his skills. Deny it all you want. Try to add a context to a databook entry that isn't there, if you need. But Kishi, the author of the manga and the databooks, has stated that Kurenai is on a level with Itachi when it comes to genjutsu. Nothing you say will change that. The fact that you're arguing it puts you on an intelligence level that rivals KYF.

AniMeFaN
04-06-2011, 04:51 PM
w.e, you are the one who brought up the incident itachi was "caught in genjutsu" as what the quote was talking about. i dont think its referring to that, you cant prove what its talking about either way soe all we have to go on is the manga. if you never saw that data book and someone said kurenai equals itachi in genjutsu you would call them crazy because all signs point to itachi being superior.

kael03
04-06-2011, 04:58 PM
w.e, you are the one who brought up the incident itachi was "caught in genjutsu" as what the quote was talking about.

The hell are you talking about? Your argument has centered on the fight between Itachi and Kurenai when Itachi was leaving the village. YOU were the one that brought it up. I've been saying that there is no context to that one part of the sentence and that Kishi has stated their skills are equal. You just apparently can't handle a woman rivaling a man or some chauvinistic crap.

i dont think its referring to that,

It's not referring to any specific moment in her lifetime. It's referring to her overall skill.

you cant prove what its talking about either way soe all we have to go on is the manga.

Not really when the databook says you're wrong.

if you never saw that data book and someone said kurenai equals itachi in genjutsu you would call them crazy because all signs point to itachi being superior.

Yet you've seen the databook entry (I know because I posted it for you), and you still think Itachi is superior when it's been stated they are equals.