Father gets new chairs.

You sigs got me watching OP anime, manga maybe later, interesting but at the beginning.

Nagato at absolute full power
vs
Father

This is technically two different fights thanks to Father's two separate "combat capable" forms. The form which resembles an older Hohenheim is one fight, the final, young-looking form is the other.

God mode Father would be at less than his full power, since he was using his power to keep the "God" inside him. Yes, he could do things like create a sun in the palm of his hand, but he could barely keep the God contained.

That's a tough choice on one hand you have Nagato at absolute full power and on thy other you have Father, who nearly had everybody successfully killed in the world to make himself ultra powerful but not as powerful considering what Kael just said about him not fully containing his God-like power.. it's iffy but my bet would be Nagato he'd probably beat Father for as long as Father can hold out on him.

Thank you for posting some reasonings at least...

God Mode Father was only struggling to control The Truth after Hohenheim removed the souls of the Amestrians from Father. We have no idea how powerful Father would be with the Amestris Philosopher's Stone. Needless to say, THAT form would almost definitely beat Nagato.

Personally, I think Nagato would unquestionably sweep non-God Mode Father, just because he's so much weaker. God Mode Father would be a very interesting fight, imo. Both of them have theoretically limitless power over matter and energy, but Nagato also has power over a fundamental force of the universe. Father has more raw power than Nagato, but Nagato is decidedly more skilled in combat (as evidenced by the asskicking Father received once he could no longer energyblock people). Both of them have the power to remove and manipulate souls, so they'd probably both be unable to wield that against one another.

I'd say Nagato beats Old Man Father solidly, just because Old Man Father doesn't come anywhere near the DBZ line while Nagato is what threw this fuckin series over it, but the other one could go either way. Father does not have as much skill in using his comparatively greater powers. Nagato is human where his opponent is not, but his power is borderline of the realm of that of The Truth. Heck, when it comes to controlling life and death, the difference in laws between Naruto and FMA makes Nagato more powerful than The Truth in that aspect.

Don't go judging the outcome of the fight just based on the quality of the series (because holy hell does FMA kick Naruto's ass), especially when it's not a weak b*tch like Sakura under the firing squad.

You sigs got me watching OP anime, manga maybe later, interesting but at the beginning.

Ace being badass is hard to ignore. =P

Kiba vs
http://nsa20.casimages.com/img/2010/11/06/101106120513650489.gif

The asskicking...THE SHEER ASSKICKING!! What did that retard do to deserve such murder?

He was beaten by a fart. After something like that no one would deserve any form of respect.

Acknowlogia vs Kyuubi.

Acnologia have wings, Kyuubi have tails

Kyuubi have unlimited chakra. Kyuubi can keep going all night long baby.

Acnologia blew up an entire island, Kyuubi can match it in sheer power.

Kyuubi wins because of unlimited chakra pool

Ackno got nothing on kyuubi. Kyuubi will match the dragon roar with his cero boot for boot(did u see the size of the cero a yin-less 9tails did even after naruto took his chakra). With that said, 9 tails is just too fast for ackno and also way bigger. Flying wont help since 9tails is also a sort of a sensor

Kyuubi wins 9.9 : 0.1

Wow really now kyubis attacks have been blocked while lmao acknologia's couldn't. In terms of raw power the dragon clearly beats the fox.

Kyuubi have unlimited chakra and stamina. Unless you can seal him, he gonna keep going and going and going.

Wow really now kyubis attacks have been blocked while lmao acknologia's couldn't.

That is a really poor argument, since the only people around to attempt a block were pretty much spent.

My money is on the Kyubi for this as well. Power wise their respective energy attacks are on par with one another from my point of view, but durability and speed feats swing it for the Kyubi for now.

Let's try a completely different matchup. Killer B vs. Jiraiya.

Let's try a completely different matchup. Killer B vs. Jiraiya.

That would be a damn good match up I can see bee's swords clashing againt Jiraiya's Needle Jizo...Next J-man counteracks with a swamp and as Bee tries to use his tentacles to get away Jiraiya douses him in toad oil and a fireball.

Bee enters mode two on his ass and starts working J-man as he enters Hermit Mode Bee hits him with a Mode 2 Lariat and realizes it's a clone substitution of a toads tougue that reels Bee into the TOad mouth trap.

Bee counters with a biju transformation which forces an opening in the toad mouth trap where he slips a tentcle clone. back in normal mode he see's Hermit JIraiya outside and spouts off one of his raps.. and J-man does his little intro and B-writes a rhyme J-man tries to douce his ass in oil agian .. only to be met with a blast of ink Bee enters raiton armor and goes on a rampage.

J-man hits him with the frog song genjutsu and summons a ton of great toads just as bee goes into full 8tails mode

verdict Draw!!

Jiraiya could barely handle 4 tails Naruto. Kirabi takes the win.

B has a massive advantage in speed and destructive output. Without restricting Hachibi, B pretty much rapes.

oh you guys took the thunder out of my lil story

Jman is vest in seals. Have seen the structure of the 8 elephant seal on naruto. So my guess is he can also do it (Gave a paper seal to kakashi to help pull the kyuubi in if naruto loses control in the Gaara rescue arc). Bee's speed is busted if Jman erects his barrier. SM is quite durable but this is a bijuu we are talking about. Bijuu ball wins it for bee

Jiraiya could barely handle 4 tails Naruto. Kirabi takes the win.

You also forget he wasn't trying to hurt Naruto so I'm sure he held back to stop from adding fuel to the fire.

Different villages means different methods for sealing beast. Also Kirabi is a vet that had a stalemate with Minato. Comeon son stop acting retarded J-Man is good but he isn't that good.

That would be a damn good match up I can see bee's swords clashing againt Jiraiya's Needle Jizo...Next J-man counteracks with a swamp and as Bee tries to use his tentacles to get away Jiraiya douses him in toad oil and a fireball.

Bee enters mode two on his ass and starts working J-man as he enters Hermit Mode Bee hits him with a Mode 2 Lariat and realizes it's a clone substitution of a toads tougue that reels Bee into the TOad mouth trap.

Bee counters with a biju transformation which forces an opening in the toad mouth trap where he slips a tentcle clone. back in normal mode he see's Hermit JIraiya outside and spouts off one of his raps.. and J-man does his little intro and B-writes a rhyme J-man tries to douce his ass in oil agian .. only to be met with a blast of ink Bee enters raiton armor and goes on a rampage.

J-man hits him with the frog song genjutsu and summons a ton of great toads just as bee goes into full 8tails mode

verdict Draw!!

IMHO, just because J-Man would 'try' hard, dosen't make him a better shinobi that could defeat the 2nd highest Bijuu/Jink, the first known to sync with his Bijuu. Remember, J-Man only saw Naruto up to 4 tails, and got gutted, Orochimaru on the other hand, went toe to toe, for a while with the 4 tail. Though Oro never actually 'hurt' Naruto at 4 tails, he could withstand most of what he had to offer with exception of the Bijuu Ball, that he found his way around that with his Gates.

Just because J-Man defeated 3 Peins he gets too much luv personally. But he wasn't fighting alone, he was with 2 Master Sages assisting him because he can't go Sage Mode by himself without help. Since J-Mans the author of Naruto, he's got to be the 'Good' guy in this battle. Since Jiraiya has NEVER been seen as 'on par', with Minato, and he has no Bijuu his chances are as slim as ever IMHO.

While I'm not saying that Jiraiya will win, he would still be able to go into sage mode and summon the giant toads. If he went into the battle with all of those things kinda like Naruto did against Pain, he might have a slight chance. I'd still say his odds are slim though.

Different villages means different methods for sealing beast. Also Kirabi and raikage, together, had a stalemate with Minato. Comeon son stop acting retarded J-Man is good but he isn't that good.

FIXED IT.......:D

KB vs Jman?

It depends on whether Jman can suppress KBs bijuu powers and I think Jman can. Without the hachibis power KB doesn't stand much of a chance with some sword taijutsu and one lighting jutsu IMO. However, if KB can use hachibis powers somehow then Jman won't be able to overcome that much power.

I believe Jman has a much better chance though due to his mastery of seals and bijuu suppression.

LMAO Ok how is Jiraiya going to be fast enough to suppress Kirabi's chakra when Kirabi instantly goes version 2?

Simply using a 5 element seal over narutos jink seal left him unable to access the kyuubis power and unbalanced his own chakra as well. With KB's Jink seal not even being as good as narutos, I think a single placement of the 5 element seal would be enough to stop KBs transformations since KB has shown no real skill in seals himself. So, breaking the seal Jman puts is very very unlikely.

And a KB can be in base mode or Beast mode. I don't think it matters when the seal is placed. It just becomes harder to place the seal when KBs already in beast mode due to its power.

Simply using a 5 element seal over narutos jink seal left him unable to access the kyuubis power and unbalanced his own chakra as well. With KB's Jink seal not even being as good as narutos, I think a single placement of the 5 element seal would be enough to stop KBs transformations since KB has shown no real skill in seals himself. So, breaking the seal Jman puts is very very unlikely.

And a KB can be in base mode or Beast mode. I don't think it matters when the seal is placed. It just becomes harder to place the seal when KBs already in beast mode due to its power.

Except the 5 element seal was used by Orochimaru, not Jiraiya.

Why is this still going on ?

No amount of lulz seals and frogs will save Jiraya from an opponent who is faster than him, and can nuke shit at will.

Bijuu bomb ends this.

Bijuu bomb, speed, intellect, and awesomeness end this. Old man doesn't stand a chance. SM takes time, frogs take time, barrier takes time, and finding out what kind of opponent KB is takes battle time he can't afford with him specifically.

Simply using a 5 element seal over narutos jink seal left him unable to access the kyuubis power and unbalanced his own chakra as well.
Ok I already said this but I'll repeat it. Naruto's seal is that of a Konoha jutsu just as 5 element seal is also a Konoha jutsu. However Kirabi is not from Konoha while his bijuu was sealed by Cloud ninja. Meaning they would have used an entirely different sealing method than the one used on Naruto. Without prior information on Kirabi's seal it's highly doubtful that Jiraiya would even be able to suppress Kirabi's chakra using that same seal. Jiraiya wouldn't actually be severing a chakra connection like Kabuto did to Naruto but rather would be interrupting the current seal since he has prior knowledge of how it works.

With KB's Jink seal not even being as good as narutos,
What are you even basing this information on?

I think a single placement of the 5 element seal would be enough to stop KBs transformations since KB has shown no real skill in seals himself.
Problem is 5 element seal is used specifically for Narutos type of seal. Had it had the ability to stop any Bijuu the other countries so called trumps would be completely useless against Konoha.

So, breaking the seal Jman puts is very very unlikely.
Huuu? How is Jiraiya going to actually place a so called seal to begin with when Sasuke who has a sharingan couldn't even keep up with Kirabi's base movements? Don't forget that Kirabi can basically go into any mode at any given time while Jiraiya takes a shit load of time to charge up. Given Jiraiya's obvious reputation he isn't someone Kirabi would simply underestimate.

And a KB can be in base mode or Beast mode. I don't think it matters when the seal is placed.
Again huuu??? how is the seal even going to be placed & why do you even think such a thing would even work to begin with?

It just becomes harder to place the seal when KBs already in beast mode due to its power.
Jiraiya would have an almost impossible time placing it when Kirabi is in base form let alone actually using the Hachibi chakra which he does in pretty much every fight. Face facts Jiraiya is outclassed here.


Edit: I almost forgot about that keal however Jiraiya had clear knowledge of the seals that were placed on Naruto indicating that he would have potential to do it. Anyway my above points stand there's no real reason why that would actually work on Kirabi to begin with.

As much as it pains me to say this, veng, but KYF is right about Bee's seal not being as good as Naruto's. Bee even said so before Naruto started his training to control the Kyuubi chakra. (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v53/c496/7.html)

My point still stands though Orochimaru used a 5 element seal to disrupt the chakra flow of a 4 element seal. Kirabi's seal however is completely different since it's an iron seal. It may not work as well when suppressing the chakra of the Hachibi however that doesn't change the fact that it's a completely different seal from the one Konoha uses.

wait now you guys give Oro credit but not to J-man.. they both are Sennin and you have to take into consideration that J-man wasn't prepared for Naruto to go 4 tails and he would have held back in his suppression not wanting to injure his student and all. Now with Killer Bee ther is no such love there and he wouldn't hold back.. J-man has fought Oro Pain Hanzo and countless others I'm sure he could go toe to toe with Killer Bee

Ummm yeah I actually said that J-Man could probably use that same seal. However what I'm saying is it wouldn't fucking work because Kirabi's seal is an iron seal while Naruto's is a 4 Element seal. 5 Element seal is specifically designed to manipulate the 4 Element Seal but that doesn't mean that same seal would work on a completely different one.

Let me dumb it down for anyone still confused. I have a key that works for one type of lock however that doesn't mean that same key would work for a different type of lock.

It would if it were a master key.




















































Sorry I couldn't resist. :]

Lmao .

not saying jman would win but ur forgetting swamp of the underworld which is almost instant that would give him enough time to go sage mode, his hair defense jutsu would help against taijutsu and the man is pretty skilled with rasengan jman only lost to pain cuz he was walking away thinkin he was dead and lost an arm in the process and even after that was able to buy time take out a path and get a message off

As much as I like J-man, even I can't see him beating KillerBee. That's not to say it would be an easy fight though. J-man has a nice variety of jutsu, including frog stomach which even Itachi and Kisame couldn't escape without using Amaterasu. Plus J-man has rasengan for offense and his hair needle defense, so I'm going to say he could match KB up close at base. If KB goes tailed mode he has the advantage though. Even more so if he goes version 2.

Full Hachibi would rip open frog stomach jutsu like a wet paper bag, stomp over J-mans needle hair armor like a old pine-cone, and wouldn't even get a tickle from rasengan. Only if J-man has enough time to go SM (and that's a big IF) would he stand a chance. I could see his giant rasengan being a match for Bijuu bomb. The only problem is he can't throw it, so it would still blow up in his face anyway. His needle hair barrage might work, but KB will likely dodge most of them in human form, and won't be significantly damaged in Bijuu mode, doing basically nothing to him.

The only things that really works against KB are the toad oil since it makes the ground slippery, thus hampering his movements and making his sword combat impossible. Plus it can be lit on fire which Amaterasu has shown will work. In truth the sage toads will do most of the work against KB. Ma toads tongue can sniff out anybody and capture them with blazing speed and strength. Even Pain was all like "TOO FAST!!!" (http://www.mangareader.net/93-381-6/naruto/chapter-376.html), which is a significant speed feat. Pa toads tongue can slice them in half (http://www.mangareader.net/93-381-9/naruto/chapter-376.html) once they are captured. And lets not forget the frog song which is instawin if they can pull it off. LMAO, if KB got KO'd by a song that would so fucking ironic.


Bottom line KB can be beat. Not by J-man, but by his frog summons, which he most likely won't have time to summon before KB stomps the life out of him.

My point still stands though Orochimaru used a 5 element seal to disrupt the chakra flow of a 4 element seal. Kirabi's seal however is completely different since it's an iron seal. It may not work as well when suppressing the chakra of the Hachibi however that doesn't change the fact that it's a completely different seal from the one Konoha uses.

Seals are seals. They are used as even or odd. Putting the odd over then even of narutos Jink seal completely screwed up the seal. However, putting and even over the even would only serve to strengthen the seal though. Either way Jman will be effecting KB's ability to use his bijuus power since KB has no real seal skills.

KB isn't that good..... Kisame stomped his ass and Kisame wasn;t even trying to kill him. Yet, kisame shit his pants and knew he couldn;t defeat Jman by his own admittance. (Itachis comment about not beating Jman though was clearly because he didn't want to fight his comrade which kisame wasn't).

Jman has too much for bee. Even if Bee goes tailed beast, Kage bushins would allow Jman time to get into SM and even use frog song.
Jman can summon KB to toad stomach...
Jman can leave KB stuck in a giant mud lake, easy for an attack.
ect ect....

Kb with his just 8 sword BS that only hit sasuke because was holding back while still injured, but still let himself get caught off balance. No matter of he could see the attack, he was off balance and couldn't manuever out of the way.
However though, Jman doesn't fight head on. He uses clones so close combat won't work on him.
I just don't see KB beating Jman with his limited Hulk smash tactics that failed against kisame. The guy who was pretty sure he could'nt beat Jman for a reason.

like i posted earlier if kb goes hachibi jman would instant swamp of the underworld to stop him dead in his tracks leaving him open for a ultimate rasengan to the face

As much as I like J-man, even I can't see him beating KillerBee. That's not to say it would be an easy fight though. J-man has a nice variety of jutsu, including frog stomach which even Itachi and Kisame couldn't escape without using Amaterasu. Plus J-man has rasengan for offense and his hair needle defense, so I'm going to say he could match KB up close at base. If KB goes tailed mode he has the advantage though. Even more so if he goes version 2.

Full Hachibi would rip open frog stomach jutsu like a wet paper bag, stomp over J-mans needle hair armor like a old pine-cone, and wouldn't even get a tickle from rasengan. Only if J-man has enough time to go SM (and that's a big IF) would he stand a chance. I could see his giant rasengan being a match for Bijuu bomb. The only problem is he can't throw it, so it would still blow up in his face anyway. His needle hair barrage might work, but KB will likely dodge most of them in human form, and won't be significantly damaged in Bijuu mode, doing basically nothing to him.

The only things that really works against KB are the toad oil since it makes the ground slippery, thus hampering his movements and making his sword combat impossible. Plus it can be lit on fire which Amaterasu has shown will work. In truth the sage toads will do most of the work against KB. Ma toads tongue can sniff out anybody and capture them with blazing speed and strength. Even Pain was all like "TOO FAST!!!" (http://www.mangareader.net/93-381-6/naruto/chapter-376.html), which is a significant speed feat. Pa toads tongue can slice them in half (http://www.mangareader.net/93-381-9/naruto/chapter-376.html) once they are captured. And lets not forget the frog song which is instawin if they can pull it off. LMAO, if KB got KO'd by a song that would so fucking ironic.


Bottom line KB can be beat. Not by J-man, but by his frog summons, which he most likely won't have time to summon before KB stomps the life out of him.

I agree with most, but KB's faster than Nagato/Pein, it was proven vs. Minato, so IMHO, they'res nothing a frog could do vs. and Octopus, plus one single clothesline in Cloak Mode that hits ends the shit, ask Sasuke. J-Man ain't got a CS, or a healer, or Juugo, his chest is wide open like a Saw movie, nobody can fight like that, nobody.

^Yeah but KB's speed wouldn't work if he's running across toad oil. That shit is slippery Yo'. Plus I wouldn't put the toad sages down. Their attacks used nature energy which makes them massively more powerful then normal. I mean did you see how Ma toad yanked that chameleon to the ground!!! She dunked his ass like a basketball, and it wasn't exactly small either.

J-man might loose but not to the degree you guys are making it out to be.. plus you guys are totally tossing their personalities out of the fight .. I can see them going at it and then doing some goofy ass shit, then realize their both good guys and calling it quits

Derp Derp, these vs. fights are based upon their techniques and normal reactions, not based on personality. Most of these guys don't have a legitimate reason to fight each other anyway. C'mon son, get with the program.

J-man might loose but not to the degree you guys are making it out to be.. plus you guys are totally tossing their personalities out of the fight .. I can see them going at it and then doing some goofy ass shit, then realize their both good guys and calling it quits

Personalities not allowed in Vs. Thread, C'mon Son, I must agree.... C'mon Son!!!! If nothing else check past history, some characters we debate would never fight each other, some not even in the same manga world, C'mon Son, lol.

Shisui vs Minato?

I'd say minato. Even though Shishui was famous for his body flicker, Minato was most likely much faster. Also, since Minato is the hokage, he would most likely have intel on Shishui's genjutu's, and he would not look into his eyes. He'd be able to get a hit in before he'd get put under a genjutsu. Also, enemy villages never put a flee on sight order on Shishui.

I'd say minato. Even though Shishui was famous for his body flicker, Minato was most likely much faster. Also, since Minato is the hokage, he would most likely have intel on Shishui's genjutu's, and he would not look into his eyes. He'd be able to get a hit in before he'd get put under a genjutsu. Also, enemy villages never put a flee on sight order on Shishui.

I doubt he would have intel on his abilities.The uchiha werent sharers. They were both fast, minato probably faster, but shisui did have a sharingan, so even though minato is faster there'd be a split second between attacks that shisui might have been able to react. KB did react during the skirmish with minato. Enough to be able to counter him.

but besides all of that, it would take 1 single glance to take minato out. Seeing as there was tons of eye to eye contact when Minato fought madara, I dont see how he would not get caught.

Considering that no eye tech in existence can track Minato's movements with FTG, yeah, he's not going to have any problems.

Minato without a doubt pwn shisui. Ao get off a fight with shisui means he never got caught under shisui's ultimate genjutsu. Plus Minato is way better than Ao.

kb is fast but not as fast as people are saying for one when minato was fighting raikage when he dodged everyone clearly seen him land on the tree then go for a counter, and in that same breath when he countered and kb intervened he got a tentacle severed in the process same with hirashin lvl 2 minato moved fast enough to dodge hit madara with a rasengan and contract seal him before he knew what happened. i dont think shisui can keep up with that im saying minato would win in a hurry

kb is fast but not as fast as people are saying for one when minato was fighting raikage when he dodged everyone clearly seen him land on the tree then go for a counter, and in that same breath when he countered and kb intervened he got a tentacle severed in the process same with hirashin lvl 2 minato moved fast enough to dodge hit madara with a rasengan and contract seal him before he knew what happened. i dont think shisui can keep up with that im saying minato would win in a hurry

Or, Shisui traps him with Mind control.

Or, Shisui traps him with Mind control.

While Minato's write up and legend are beastly, I kinda agree with this. Danzou had 1/2 of Shisui's Techs, and Itachi's Eye had the other ability to break control, or 'Save Konoha' Tech. So since Danzo fooled all of the Kages until Ao said something, Minato would never know if he's caught in that kind of mind control. Of course if he just blazed in and ended it quick yeah easy win, but how many fights ever went that way? So the probability that Minato gets harmed/confused/effected by Uchiha Shisui, is higher than most are considering IMHO.


New match up, THE Uchihas: Madara, Tobi, Itachi, Sasuke at they're highest power lvls, vs whom that could be considered a good match up? It'll be 4 on 4 (so NOOOO you can't use ALL of Peins Paths), so I'll help with 2, Harashirma, Nagato, fill in the rest looking for a good match. For now vs. those 2 I'd say Uchiha's rape them, so get the Goody Goodies (except Itachi w/ Uchihas) some help.

Harashirma, Nagato, Killerbee, Kisame?? thats a very hard match up lol everyone seems to fail in comparison to those four..

it would be a sad day for any opponent to battle 3 susanoo

New match up, THE Uchihas: Madara, Tobi, Itachi, Sasuke at they're highest power lvls, vs whom that could be considered a good match up? It'll be 4 on 4 (so NOOOO you can't use ALL of Peins Paths), so I'll help with 2, Harashirma, Nagato, fill in the rest looking for a good match. For now vs. those 2 I'd say Uchiha's rape them, so get the Goody Goodies (except Itachi w/ Uchihas) some help.

Hashirama, Minato, Nagato and Naruto

Hashirama, Minato, Nagato and Naruto

Everyone but Naruto belongs there, he can't Talk No Jutsu through anyone besides Sasuke and thats not guaranteed. Besides Edo-Madara show'd that he can pwn everything Naruto had to offer, at least so far. And I don't thing a hair on Madara's ass fears the Kyuubi, its Madaras's personal pitt, and I'd think he'd have the ability to shut the Kyuubi down with ease.

To make it even i have to pick this guys...
Hashirama, Minato, Shisui, (naruto or rock lee)

Main Event
Hashirama vs Madara
Minato vs Tobi
Shisui vs Itachi

Sideline match
Naruto or Rock Lee vs Sasuke

we already seen minato vs tobi though tobi got shit stomped

Tmoore, its new match up...
picking any other 4 to face off against the 4 uchihas neo mentioned... whats your 4 pick?

To make it even i have to pick this guys...
Hashirama, Minato, Shisui, (naruto or rock lee)

Main Event
Hashirama vs Madara
Minato vs Tobi
Shisui vs Itachi

Sideline match
Naruto or Rock Lee vs Sasuke

Naruto vs. Sasuke with EMS beliveable, Rock Lee vs. Sasuke w/ EMS = wasting his life, he'd die to Amaretsu, and fast.

my 4 to battle the uchihas would be hashirama of course sarutobi in his prime kakashi and most def minato.. but as a replacement i would say gaara since he is the only one that has blocked amaterasu and fought susanoo twice and seemingly found a weakness to it

my 4 to battle the uchihas would be hashirama of course sarutobi in his prime kakashi and most def minato.. but as a replacement i would say gaara since he is the only one that has blocked amaterasu and fought susanoo twice and seemingly found a weakness to it

ya def swap kakashi for gaara.. his chakra is too puny... on second thought swap kakashi for uh nagato..

on third thought.. Swap sarutobi for izuna in his prime

Izuna,Minato,Hashirama,sarutobi = win

my 4 to battle the uchihas would be hashirama of course sarutobi in his prime kakashi and most def minato.. but as a replacement i would say gaara since he is the only one that has blocked amaterasu and fought susanoo twice and seemingly found a weakness to it

Kakashi, sorry for my taste, out of his league, his chakra tank couldn't handle this fight except against Sasuke, but sorry if Sasuke had more chakra after Danzou's death, Kakashi woulda been dead, and thats when he had MS, he has EMS now.

Gaara, C'mon Son, Oonoki made the sand lighter so he could control it better and he managed to grab Edo-Madara's Susanno, and prevent its use of its arms to block the user, totally stop it , nah. Therefore to use Gaara, you'd prolly need Oonki as well who's no walk in the park, I'd rather have him on my team than Kakashi, IMHO, and thats no 'Kakashi Hate', its just factually true that his Sharingan assisted him to where he's at in life, and while he's great with the 'loaner', from Obito, the Uchiha's will simply produce too many techs that Kamui couldn't save him from, and he can't use it that many times, he'll ultimately be doomed.

Uchiha Madara, Uchiha Tobi, Uchiha Sasuke, Uchiha Itachi.... vs.
Harashirma, Nagato, Oonki, Minato/Gaara.... seems like a good fight, I'm getting the feeling from reading the spoilers that Oonki fought Madara before when he was young. Fire away, u can have at it, let the wargames begin...

oonki confirmed he fought madara when he was younger he said it at the kage summit i would put gaara in there cuz he has shown alot of different techs during this war and they have all been good kakashi i threw in there because of his genius true he cant spam justu but he wouldnt be an easy out either dude makes his techs count i say kakashi in a sense is underhyped dude has to be some kinda competent he was put in charge of narutop and sasuke ya know

oonki confirmed he fought madara when he was younger he said it at the kage summit i would put gaara in there cuz he has shown alot of different techs during this war and they have all been good kakashi i threw in there because of his genius true he cant spam justu but he wouldnt be an easy out either dude makes his techs count i say kakashi in a sense is underhyped dude has to be some kinda competent he was put in charge of narutop and sasuke ya know


Kakashi is one hell of a strategist but naa that wouldnt be good enough.. Neither him nor Gaara could defeat deidara im not too confident in those two...

Kakashi is one hell of a strategist but naa that wouldnt be good enough.. Neither him nor Gaara could defeat deidara im not too confident in those two...

I kinda agree, his ace in the hole is Kamui, other than that, he couldn't avoid, hide under the ground, etc. vs. these Dudes which is part of his claim to fame, and we all know that Chidori, and Raikiri are both useless jutsu's in this fight. On the Gaara note, his shit turned out backwards to me, he came up with more shit AFTER he lost his Bijuu and didn't try 1% against Deidara that is just simply bad writing IMHO. I'm not one to believe he 'learned' all of that since his rebirth. Regardless it wasn't enough to take out Deidara, as was stated.

but to tell u the truth deidara is formidable naruto couldnt take him down either second.... when kakashi fought deidara he was jus learning to use kamui if he had the mastery he had against sasuke deidara would have been finished

but to tell u the truth deidara is formidable naruto couldnt take him down either second.... when kakashi fought deidara he was jus learning to use kamui if he had the mastery he had against sasuke deidara would have been finished

I understand but lookit, Harashirma was fighting against Madara whos throwing Meteors, his Grand Fireball was larger than the front lines of the 5 Allied Nations, he made Naruto's Rasenshuriken disappear. Everybody knows Itachi's Techs are just as beastly, Sealing Sword, its over, and heck Kakashi hasen't even seen Kirin and he's never produced anything, anything in that neigborhood with his ninjutsu. The Sharingan stuff, of course any Uchiha on that battlefield would pwn anything Kakashi attempted as well.

On another note I'm kinda conflicted, while you and others give Minato the 'broke his foot of in Tobi's ass' award, I don't. It was a pretty even battle speedwise, and Minato (A Kage), was more tactical and eventually hit Tobi in the arm with one single Rasengen, stopped his control over the Kyuubi with a seal, and thats it. He didn't kill Tobi, but actually showed that it'd be much harder to kill a Zetsu Clone. Why I'm conflicted is that because of all his knowledge on the Uchiha, the tablet, the ninja world, the Uchiha Clan, tells me that this Dude is either part of Madara, or his brother. Him being part of Madara is like not fair IMHO, and it hasn't been outted that Tobi's his brother so I'm more prone to taking Tobi out totally because his situations unsettled.

Madara, Sasuke, Itachi....vs. Harashirma, Nagato, Oonki/Minato a perftect battle, 3 on 3.

not debating your facts but oonki on touch can make sasuke to heavy too move same with the other two

not debating your facts but oonki on touch can make sasuke to heavy too move same with the other two

True and valid point, thats why Oonki made it on 'the list' IMHO, plus with his KKG he's a beast, I give credit where credit is due, but just for me Rock Lees, and Kakashi's while cool, and they do have good and adequate techs, these guys are like the total top of the shinobi food chain from whats been seen with exception of Ridoku Clown, lol.

please dont count out naruto i think against anyone but itachi he can hold his own between sage and light bright mode he has shown that he is no longer the laughing stock of konoha

please dont count out naruto i think against anyone but itachi he can hold his own between sage and light bright mode he has shown that he is no longer the laughing stock of konoha

Jinks all of them < Madara, Harashirma, thats easy, Naruto gets love because he does have some hax's, and also because of the Kyuubi, obviously outside the script Kyub's is Madara's personal pet, so thats power that could be taken from him on a whim.

idk this upcoming chapter is kind proving otherwise but good question if madara summons the kyuubi will he summon naruto instead?

Konohamaru (Anime Filler Skill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j42Kn0APoPY)) vs. Sakura (Manga Cannon)

I saw that scene the other day, and it got me thinking about how sad it is that the only development these characters get is filler.

I would give it to Konohamaru.

Sakura has learned nothing new since the beginning of part 2, she isn't fast by any measure and her strikes are very linear. Konohamaru has clones to distract her, long range filler techs and can use Rasengan to finish things off.

Kage Bushin fein+Rasengan > Everything else in this manga.

idk this upcoming chapter is kind proving otherwise but good question if madara summons the kyuubi will he summon naruto instead?

I don't think he can summon the kyuubi while it resides in it's host. The sealing technique cuts across T/S jutsus

Mizukage pillow fight tsunade.. Who wins?

Mizukage pillow fight tsunade.. Who wins?

Mizu easy, see what she does with her spit, she's a whore, I love anime whores. Tsunade only turns that way after drinking, usually after losing a lot of money gambling.

Actually if it's a pillow fight Tsunade should have the advantage because of her superior strength.

idk if its been done. Madara vs tobi

How about waiting until Tobi gets a proper fight ?

^ I can see what your saying. With what we saw from him thus far. It may seem silly but that intangibility for 5 mins, the fact that he can suck people into another dimension, and has a strorage supply of eyes so (to me) he can use izangi (sp) as much as he wants. I think it would be interesting. Im leaning in the direction of tobi.

madara even though dead seems to be boss man of the two if tobi was stronger than madara he wouldnt have used his name he would have used his own to make a rep for himself as the best uchiha to ever live

I think that the fight would go to the 2nd hokage because we have never seen Kisame fight anyone that would catch him in genjutsu.

??? and what Genjutsu does the 2nd Hokage possess? This is news to me, I know he created Impure World Resurrection, Bringer of Darkness, Water Dragon Bullet, Water Encampment Wall, and Water Shockwave, never, ever, ever even heard about Genjutsu with any non Uchiha besides Kurenai, Shii, Danzou, Ma & Pa Toad, thats about it. Genjutsu is rare within the manga, and I've never heard of any Senju with that ability, not even Harashirma, not any Konoha Hokage past or present.

??? and what Genjutsu does the 2nd Hokage possess? This is news to me, I know he created Impure World Resurrection, Bringer of Darkness, Water Dragon Bullet, Water Encampment Wall, and Water Shockwave, never, ever, ever even heard about Genjutsu with any non Uchiha besides Kurenai, Shii, Danzou, Ma & Pa Toad, thats about it. Genjutsu is rare within the manga, and I've never heard of any Senju with that ability, not even Harashirma, not any Konoha Hokage past or present.

Hashirama had the Absolute Darkness or whatever Genjutsu. So yeah.

You are joking about the "no genjutsu users who aren't Uchiha" thing, right? Because seriously claiming that would be freaking stupid.

Hashirama had the Absolute Darkness or whatever Genjutsu. So yeah.

You are joking about the "no genjutsu users who aren't Uchiha" thing, right? Because seriously claiming that would be freaking stupid.

You may be correct, but...
Check his jutsus
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tobirama_Senju

The Genjutsu thing, I was only speaking about 'prominent' users, those whom have shown the ability to produce genjutsu's that pose large threats against opponents, and in some cases all out disable them. I can only speak to whats been shown in manga, anybody could assume there were many more Genjutsu badasses, but they've been on vacation permanently off panel so they don't matter.

plus I understand but....
In the anime, Tobirama Senju was the one to initiate this technique. However, in the manga, the technique was cast by Hashirama Senju. In the video game Naruto: Ultimate Ninja 3, both are capable of performing the technique.
■ In the manga and anime, this technique is called by its full name, Genjutsu: Bringer-of-Darkness Technique (幻術・黒暗行の術, Genjutsu: Kokuangyo no Jutsu; Literally meaning "Illusion Technique: Bringer-of-Darkness Technique"). The databook entry for this technique drops the "Genjutsu" part

Thats why I was confused it wasn't called genjutsu in the Databook.

How about a prediction VS match.

Edo Madara (with his RG+EMS powers) vs the five kages.

Honestly, IMO, once madara truly goes on the offensive the kages will be annihilated.

Madara has just been messing around with sasanoo, Forrest creation and rock summoning. We know what the RG can due (deva realms powers alone), but the EMS power could be just as powerful and all it would take to annihilate the kages since its was EMS madara who was the ideal of power.

And if Im not mistaken madaras plan when he fought hashiram was to attain some of his power for his own and that what he did and survived to use it. I don't see how madara technically lost that fight. Kishi needs to elaborate.

Edo Madara should win easily against the Kage's in any match .. he was already feared when he was alive but in this state with no chakra fatigue he can just spam shit all day.. he's just using finesse now and playing around with them

Sage of Six Paths vs Edo Madara... who win?

Sage of Six Paths vs Edo Madara... who win?

Edo-Madara, he has the largest nuts in the manga to date, and Ridoku = Bozo's unknown Brother, a fucking clown IMHO, even with his Jyuubi pet that sounds like a beast but looks like some shit battling in Pokemon, or raeping broads in hentai.

Edo Madara should win easily against the Kage's in any match .. he was already feared when he was alive but in this state with no chakra fatigue he can just spam shit all day.. he's just using finesse now and playing around with them

You guys give edo madara too much credit. There is a reason for one to be called a kage. u know high intellect and strategist coupled with powerful jutsus and chakra's thats a kage and there 5 of em against 1 of em. Sure is madara powerful but don't underestimate the kages too cos they all know the rennigans techs and the counters to it. The only things now is the EMS which I think tsunade knows something about, watch out

We don't give Madara too much credit. Madara has rinnegan, EMS, wood jutsu and he's an immortal Uchiha.

To put in perspective Nagato fucked up naruto and bee and he didn't have EMS, wood jutsu and he was immoble.

Another thing to put in perspective yahiko pain was stronger then kakashi (without chouji and his dad popping in yahiko pain didn't need other pain to defeat kakashi) and i think we can only agree kakashi is kage-level. And that pain only had a fraction of the power that Madara has.

It would make no sense at all if Madara loses. It would be different though if it were the hokages.

You guys give edo madara too much credit. There is a reason for one to be called a kage. u know high intellect and strategist coupled with powerful jutsus and chakra's thats a kage and there 5 of em against 1 of em. Sure is madara powerful but don't underestimate the kages too cos they all know the rennigans techs and the counters to it. The only things now is the EMS which I think tsunade knows something about, watch out

Nah, Madara went toe to toe with Harashirma.... nobodies can't do that, therefore Harashirma > Madara > all other Kages & shinobi in the manga IMHO.

Ok here's one I dont think has been doen

Shizune Vs Hinata.. should make for an interesting fight both know the inner workings of the chakra system Shizune can't hide and Hinata can't get away

Who wins:

In a chess match: Shikamaru, Light (death note), dexter (dexters lab), kurama (yu yu hakusho) itachi, detective conan, toushirou (bleach) orochimaru

sword fight: Mifune (no chakra), kenshin (ruroni kenshin), wrath (fma brootherhood) sasuke 3 tomoe (no chakra. he cnt see energy, jus use the eyes tracking abilities) afro samurai (lol) killer bee. black star, or lupins goemon (normal sword)

rock, paper, scissors: kakashi, wrath (fma), sasuke, itachi, madara, goku

foot race: raikage, itachi, minato (chakra? idk, want it to b fair), heie (yu yu hakusho), killuah (hunter x hunter) Shihoin Yoruichi (bleach)

bbl with my answers..

Who wins:

In a chess match: Shikamaru, Light (death note), dexter (dexters lab), kurama (yu yu hakusho) itachi, detective conan, toushirou (bleach) orochimaru

sword fight: Mifune (no chakra), kenshin (ruroni kenshin), wrath (fma brootherhood) sasuke 3 tomoe (no chakra. he cnt see energy, jus use the eyes tracking abilities) afro samurai (lol) killer bee. black star, or lupins goemon (normal sword)

rock, paper, scissors: kakashi, wrath (fma), sasuke, itachi, madara, goku

foot race: raikage, itachi, minato (chakra? idk, want it to b fair), heie (yu yu hakusho), killuah (hunter x hunter) Shihoin Yoruichi (bleach)

bbl with my answers..

Chess: I would say Shikamaru even though Light is a serious opponent.
Sword fight: I would give it to wrath. That guy was a freakin one man army.
Rokc, Papper, Scissors: Itachi no doubt. He would use the sharingan. He could cast a genjutsu on the opponent. And he is the best so far at doing that.
Foot race: i don't know about Killuah but the i think that it would be a close one between the Raikage and Yuroichi.

Who wins:

In a chess match: Shikamaru, Light (death note), dexter (dexters lab), kurama (yu yu hakusho) itachi, detective conan, toushirou (bleach) orochimaru

sword fight: Mifune (no chakra), kenshin (ruroni kenshin), wrath (fma brootherhood) sasuke 3 tomoe (no chakra. he cnt see energy, jus use the eyes tracking abilities) afro samurai (lol) killer bee. black star, or lupins goemon (normal sword)

rock, paper, scissors: kakashi, wrath (fma), sasuke, itachi, madara, goku

foot race: raikage, itachi, minato (chakra? idk, want it to b fair), heie (yu yu hakusho), killuah (hunter x hunter) Shihoin Yoruichi (bleach)

bbl with my answers..

Hm, let's see.

In a chess match-It comes down to Shikamaru or Toshiro both are a genius so who knows.

In a sword fight-Hard choice but comes down between Kenshin and Wrath, both equally great in swordsmanship.

Rock Paper Scissors?? Anywho would pick Goku for good measure.

Foot Race? *sigh* Would either pick Itachi or Killuah.

Who wins:

In a chess match: Shikamaru, Light (death note), dexter (dexters lab), kurama (yu yu hakusho) itachi, detective conan, toushirou (bleach) orochimaru

sword fight: Mifune (no chakra), kenshin (ruroni kenshin), wrath (fma brootherhood) sasuke 3 tomoe (no chakra. he cnt see energy, jus use the eyes tracking abilities) afro samurai (lol) killer bee. black star, or lupins goemon (normal sword)

rock, paper, scissors: kakashi, wrath (fma), sasuke, itachi, madara, goku

foot race: raikage, itachi, minato (chakra? idk, want it to b fair), heie (yu yu hakusho), killuah (hunter x hunter) Shihoin Yoruichi (bleach)

bbl with my answers..

Quote myself >_<!!

Ok took me a lil while but here we go:

Chess:
Kurama. I think hes been around too long. He old as hell so that give him a edge on shikamaru.
Shikamaru
Light.

Sword fight:
killer bee Picked KB cause, well, he beat ms sasuke in a sword fight. Killed him a couple times. I think wrath and 3 tomoe sasuke are pretty even so that puts bee on top. I think wrath and sasuke can beat Kenshin =/
wrath
sasuke


Rock, Paper, Scissors:
Madara lmao idk why I just think he would.
Goku
kakashi


Foot Race:
Yourichi
Killuah
Heie

In a Chess Match: Itachi obviously since he can tell his opponent where to move with genjutsu.

Sword Fight: Killer Bee since he uses a shit load of swords & isn't predictable.

Rock/Paper/Scissors: Goku has insane luck.

Foot Race: Hiei obviously.

In a Chess Match: Itachi obviously since he can tell his opponent where to move with genjutsu.

Sword Fight: Killer Bee since he uses a shit load of swords & isn't predictable.

Rock/Paper/Scissors: Goku has insane luck.

Foot Race: Hiei obviously.

LOL nice! You caught me in a lil loophole. Lets say Itachi cant use genjutsu in the chess match, or Rock paper scissors. I didnt even think about that..

Moving the Goalposts or just not thinking, YOU DECIDE!

Btw, for those bashing Hinata for how she got tossed by God Realm, tha same woulda happened not only to her Brother, his Father, but also every person in they're graduating class, with exception to only MAYBE Gaara.

And Goku wins all of that besides Chess, and Swords IMHO, including speed, all he has to do is touch his forehead with 2 fingers.

LOL nice! You caught me in a lil loophole. Lets say Itachi cant use genjutsu in the chess match, or Rock paper scissors. I didnt even think about that..
Well without genjutsu in the chess match Kurama would win since he's smarter than any of the other canidates.

Goku would be immune to genjutsu because of his massive energy signature anyway.

Who wins:

In a chess match: Shikamaru, Light (death note), dexter (dexters lab), kurama (yu yu hakusho) itachi, detective conan, toushirou (bleach) orochimaru

sword fight: Mifune (no chakra), kenshin (ruroni kenshin), wrath (fma brootherhood) sasuke 3 tomoe (no chakra. he cnt see energy, jus use the eyes tracking abilities) afro samurai (lol) killer bee. black star, or lupins goemon (normal sword)

rock, paper, scissors: kakashi, wrath (fma), sasuke, itachi, madara, goku

foo race: raikage, itachi, minato (chakra? idk, want it to b fair), heie (yu yu hakusho), killuah (hunter x hunter) Shihoin Yoruichi (bleach)

bbl with my answers..

This is easy pick for me.

Light, kenshin, kakashi and yoruichi.

Btw amuro fuck the loophole, just stick to the game intended otherwise too many unnecessary shits you rather not have consider. (eg who sliced each other up win the game, totally not necessary)

Well without genjutsu in the chess match Kurama would win since he's smarter than any of the other canidates.

Goku would be immune to genjutsu because of his massive energy signature anyway.

there is no evidence to support that idea. Kurama is smart, but itachi and shikamaru put together such complex strategies beyond anything I've ever seen kurama do and I've seen the entire Yuyu hakusho series.

Chess match: Shikamaru barely beats itachi and only because hes played chess and shogi a shit ton.

And the fact 1 basic 3 tomoe SG of tobis could control the entire kyuubi and his power shows there no real limit of power to controling someone with genjutsu, just skill.

Anyways BOT:

Shikamaru wins the chess match.....

Rirouni Kenshin Win s the sword fight once he flips his blade and uses the ultimate attack+ manslayer mode... no swordmans stands a chance, sorry Bee and sasuke.

Rock Paper Scissors: Itachi because he can use his SG to read the opponent hand and predict his movement coupled with his unmatchable hand speed.

Foot race: Yuroichi obviously. Shes so fast she leaves after images. No contest, but with Raikage and minato.

Pre-Rinnegan Madara Vs Sasuke? What do you guys think the outcome would be?

Pre-Rinnegan Madara Vs Sasuke? What do you guys think the outcome would be?

Which Sasuke?

1. Pre-EMS = Madara

2. EMS = unknown, BUT I would Say Madara from pure experience.

Pre-Rinnegan Madara Vs Sasuke? What do you guys think the outcome would be?

Not really a fair fight if sasuke isn't capable of using his EMS jutsu yet since he has yet to try them out in combat.

If both can use EMS properly then madara has the experience advantage obviously as JU said. However, I think after fighting danzou sasuke could've learned Iznagai from copying the hand signs and madara would never Imagine a brat like sasuke being capable of such a jutsu meaning for a eye, sasuke could possibly get the jump on madara by reappearing behind him after taking a death blow or lulling him into a false sense of security which could make madara drop his sasanoo believing the fights over.

Thats sasuke only chance at this point IMO.

Madara is proud, he will under estimate sasuke allowing sasuke to land a hit, but if madara could survive what hashirama thought was a death blow then i doubt the chance sasuke will have to hit him will be of great effect.

Madara is proud, he will under estimate sasuke allowing sasuke to land a hit, but if madara could survive what hashirama thought was a death blow then i doubt the chance sasuke will have to hit him will be of great effect.

I don't know if you've noticed, but Sasuke is way more arrogant and cocky than Madara has shown himself to be. And he's shown that he's let his pride direct him to do stupid, stupid things. In other words, this point really doesn't help Sasuke in the slightest.

In terms of the result, honestly, we're comparing someone who's stronger, faster, more skilled, smarter, and more experienced than Sasuke. There is no way in which Madara is inferior to Sasuke at all. EMS Madara vs EMS Sasuke is what we'd like to call a shut-out.

Madara DUH... And Izanagi needs senju cells so Sasuke can't use that...

Ummm ok at what time of his life is Madara? Is he an edo golem? Did he already have wood element? Also does Sasuke have control over his EMS powers? People need to realize that Meteor no jutsu would kill Madara as well. Based on what little facts we have Madara grew up in a war time era however if the rule of next gen surpassing the previous gen is slated to be true Sasuke has defeated Kage level opponents that would have been stronger than anything Madara ever faced short of Hashirama who Madara lost against. So even the idea of experience comes into question unless we're using an old man Madara which in this case would make it a battle of youth vs experience. However if we're going to put them around the same age then sorry but Sasuke would obviously win.

I don't know if you've noticed, but Sasuke is way more arrogant and cocky than Madara has shown himself to be. And he's shown that he's let his pride direct him to do stupid, stupid things. In other words, this point really doesn't help Sasuke in the slightest.

In terms of the result, honestly, we're comparing someone who's stronger, faster, more skilled, smarter, and more experienced than Sasuke. There is no way in which Madara is inferior to Sasuke at all. EMS Madara vs EMS Sasuke is what we'd like to call a shut-out.


Cocky and arrogant? Proud yes, but not those IMO...

Sasuke has become the personification of vengeance, not cocky cockerson. I think sasukes confidence is misinterpreted as cockiness and nothing more at this point. WHile sasuke has shown arrogance and cockiness in the past I think hes beyond such character flaws at this point. Nothing more then a man on a mission with too much pride in his fallen clan.

Faster?? Madara has no speed feats while sasuke is a known speed demon who has had his speed called "god-like" in the last DB by kishi.

Smarter??? Not known! Madara has no feats to show hes smarter either.

Stronger (physically) and more experienced is the only advantages madara has over sasuke in an EMS battle.
Other then the fodder shinobi from before the kages, madara is only shown in combat defending and just letting the kages T-off on him. So, until he goes on the offense then we can't have an accurate idea of what hes truly capable of...

Madara DUH... And Izanagi needs senju cells so Sasuke can't use that...

If thats true then why is it a forbidden jutsu of the uchiha? obviously the uchiha can use it at the cost of an eye, but the jutsu will only last an instant, not 60 seconds like danzous or five minutes like tobi's against konan....

Sasuke could most likely use it since he copied the hand sign necessary and is an uchiha with a pair of SG's to use the jutsu.

Inspired by the manga this week.


Tobi covered in sweat Vs Tobi covered in Rain!


GO!!!

If thats true then why is it a forbidden jutsu of the uchiha? obviously the uchiha can use it at the cost of an eye, but the jutsu will only last an instant, not 60 seconds like danzous or five minutes like tobi's against konan....

Sasuke could most likely use it since he copied the hand sign necessary and is an uchiha with a pair of SG's to use the jutsu.

Which part of Uchiha in your own post you don't understand??

I can understand if you were to ask why Is it a forbidden jutsu of uzumaki or any other clans... (though i don't refer to any of them when i said izanagi requires the traits of uchiha and senju - http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v54/c510/10.html)

Thus your question is seriously weird dude...

It amazes me how KYF's fapping to Sasuke can blind him to the fact that arrogance has been Sasuke's defining character trait for the entire series. Rock Lee kicked his ass for it, Gaara terrified the shit out of him because of it, his entire decision to leave Konoha was sparked by his inability to comprehend Naruto being stronger than him, KB merc'd him for it, and the Kage ripped him apart for it.

Madara cut down dozens of soldiers faster than the eye could see, Sasuke's only able to come close to that with his strongest shunshin, and that's without factoring Asura Path's rocket boots that would exponentially increase Madara's speed. The power of their ninjutsu and taijutsu isn't even comparable with the extent to which Sasuke's outclassed. As long as Madara can complete a sentence he's smarter than Sasuke at this point.

And again, denying what has been stated in the manga really doesn't help your case.

It amazes me how KYF's fapping to Sasuke can blind him to the fact that arrogance has been Sasuke's defining character trait for the entire series. Rock Lee kicked his ass for it, Gaara terrified the shit out of him because of it, his entire decision to leave Konoha was sparked by his inability to comprehend Naruto being stronger than him, KB merc'd him for it, and the Kage ripped him apart for it.

Madara cut down dozens of soldiers faster than the eye could see, Sasuke's only able to come close to that with his strongest shunshin, and that's without factoring Asura Path's rocket boots that would exponentially increase Madara's speed. The power of their ninjutsu and taijutsu isn't even comparable with the extent to which Sasuke's outclassed. As long as Madara can complete a sentence he's smarter than Sasuke at this point.

And again, denying what has been stated in the manga really doesn't help your case.

With a lot you said about the topic, but the bolded I disagree with, and if I didn't I couldn't call myself a Sasuke Fan which I have no problem saying.

The Rock Lee part, I got no beef...

The Gaara part, yes and no. There were other things going on like him becoming enamored with his new CS powers, yet not knowing how to control or use them correctly, equaling perfomances in which he's merc'ing Sound Shinobi, then at inopportuned times hes sitting down like a Dude on Intervention before the Pre-Intervention meeting. Additionally, a Bijuu/Summons were the largest ally/foes they had ever been up against to date (yup 1Tail much bigger than the snake in the Forest of Death).

Leaving Konaha, he left because he wanted to pursue Itachi, and nothing else. Though this was his wish, no matter that he was inexperienced and not ready for Akatsuki Level battles, Konoha's Goody Goody Asses wouldn't allow Sasuke to go on that mission. His goals were more important than Konoha's, which makes sense considering the past, its logical and very sensible to me. He's had the 'I have no more use for Konoha' for quite sometime, and honestly would've become a forgotten character if Konoha, Naruto, Sakura, didn't have a fags hard on for him, and keep chasing him like a zombie after someone normal. His exploits would've been vs. Akatsuki, and whomever, but little or nothing to do with Konoha. His decision to leave didn't hindge upon one Rasengen that blew up a water tower a bit more than one expected, IMHO.

KB merc'd him, no arguemnt they're at all.

Raichu... sorry, I don't think anyone would expect a simple genin who ran away to be able to stand up to, pierce his chest, and either block or deflect his attacks to the point where they were ineffective. They were ineffective because #1 he didn't stop Sasuke whom was hunting Danzou, at best he 'paused', and I might add in doing that, he lost a limb, last I checked Sasuke still has zero scars, or lost limbs, that were connected with that altercation. That being said, Raichu being a Kage, him fighting seriously in a rage because he assumed Sasuke killed KB, the limb thing, and Sasuke still proceeded to the Kage Meeting Room, equals failure for a Kage, why few see this I can't understand. If you truly say it correct, Sasuke ripped him, look at the bodys in the aftermath.

With a lot you said about the topic, but the bolded I disagree with, and if I didn't I couldn't call myself a Sasuke Fan which I have no problem saying.

Leaving Konaha, he left because he wanted to pursue Itachi, and nothing else. Though this was his wish, no matter that he was inexperienced and not ready for Akatsuki Level battles, Konoha's Goody Goody Asses wouldn't allow Sasuke to go on that mission. His goals were more important than Konoha's, which makes sense considering the past, its logical and very sensible to me. He's had the 'I have no more use for Konoha' for quite sometime, and honestly would've become a forgotten character if Konoha, Naruto, Sakura, didn't have a fags hard on for him, and keep chasing him like a zombie after someone normal. His exploits would've been vs. Akatsuki, and whomever, but little or nothing to do with Konoha. His decision to leave didn't hindge upon one Rasengen that blew up a water tower a bit more than one expected, IMHO.

The Rasengan that made his Chidori seem like a pair of safety scissors was only the very last straw. It began with the Forest of Death, where Naruto stood up to Orochimaru where Sasuke pussied out until Naruto got wailed on and Sakura called Sasuke out. Then it moved on to the fight against Gaara. Sasuke couldn't do jack shit to Gaara after he went 1-Tail and he knew it. But Naruto stood up to Gaara and won. Sasuke could barely handle that, then BAM, Itachi shows up. Itachi fucking owns Sasuke, and he's far more interested in Naruto than he is Sasuke. This drives Sasuke a bit over the edge, and then Naruto pulling Rasengan out of goddamn nowhere (in Sasuke's perspective) and once again making Sasuke feel like he has something to prove was what pushed him onto the slippery slope.

Raichu... sorry, I don't think anyone would expect a simple genin who ran away to be able to stand up to, pierce his chest, and either block or deflect his attacks to the point where they were ineffective. They were ineffective because #1 he didn't stop Sasuke whom was hunting Danzou, at best he 'paused', and I might add in doing that, he lost a limb, last I checked Sasuke still has zero scars, or lost limbs, that were connected with that altercation. That being said, Raichu being a Kage, him fighting seriously in a rage because he assumed Sasuke killed KB, the limb thing, and Sasuke still proceeded to the Kage Meeting Room, equals failure for a Kage, why few see this I can't understand. If you truly say it correct, Sasuke ripped him, look at the bodys in the aftermath.

I specifically said the "Kage", not the "Raikage". A's fight with Sasuke is debatable. The end result seemed more in Sasuke's favor, but that entire fight was just Raikage beating the everloving shit out of Sasuke. The only hit Sasuke got that meant anything only happened because A let it happen. The other Kage though, THEY completely wrecked Sasuke. Mei chumped Susano'o like it was nothing, and Onoki came within an inch of one-shotting him. Had Sasuke not been rescued by Tobi & Friends, he would have died.

The Rasengan that made his Chidori seem like a pair of safety scissors was only the very last straw. It began with the Forest of Death, where Naruto stood up to Orochimaru where Sasuke pussied out until Naruto got wailed on and Sakura called Sasuke out. Then it moved on to the fight against Gaara. Sasuke couldn't do jack shit to Gaara after he went 1-Tail and he knew it. But Naruto stood up to Gaara and won. Sasuke could barely handle that, then BAM, Itachi shows up. Itachi fucking owns Sasuke, and he's far more interested in Naruto than he is Sasuke. This drives Sasuke a bit over the edge, and then Naruto pulling Rasengan out of goddamn nowhere (in Sasuke's perspective) and once again making Sasuke feel like he has something to prove was what pushed him onto the slippery slope.



I specifically said the "Kage", not the "Raikage". A's fight with Sasuke is debatable. The end result seemed more in Sasuke's favor, but that entire fight was just Raikage beating the everloving shit out of Sasuke. The only hit Sasuke got that meant anything only happened because A let it happen. The other Kage though, THEY completely wrecked Sasuke. Mei chumped Susano'o like it was nothing, and Onoki came within an inch of one-shotting him. Had Sasuke not been rescued by Tobi & Friends, he would have died.

Forest of Death, Sasuke pussed out, I'd think Oro would like a word with you, actually I'd say Sasuke gave him one of the worse asswhuppings he took to date until he put the CS on Sasuke.

Then on to Gaara, the thing people just throw to the side is that Sasuke was in pain when he wasn't 'sync'd' after using the power of the CS, additionally jutsu's and stuff aren't availlable to novices under the power of the CS, thats specifically why Oro gave it to the people he did, because they HAD to seek him out. This was obviously the truth when Kakashi was attempting his 'Medicine Man' Sealing Tech when Oro slid in on Sasuke and Kakashi as he was attempting his brand of voodoo magic, whiich was far beneath Orochimaru's CS abilities. But what did the Konoha people say.... forget about the CS, use abilites without the use of that, to a genin whom is still learning about chakra control and its abilities, yeah that makes as much sense as 'fight without your legs, you can win'. Sure if his name was Naruto. We're gonna jump for joy because Naruto was trained in summoning prior to Sasuke? Who cares, a Summons was required to defeat Gaara in that Arc, and obviously nobody trained Sasuke in that up to that point, big whuup, when I read the manga, after the Gaara stuff, I got the feeling that Sasuke felt he couldn't rely on his own strength, and the Konoha was simply didn't work for his goals of getting Itachi.

When Itachi show'd up it matters not that Itachi and Kisame were more interested in Naruto, they'res one thing that Sasuke bashers just step past, Dude saw his Mother and Father slayed by his Brother in front of his face. Nobody forgets that, and that drove Sasuke to where he is today, it has soo much less to do with 'I'm not as powerful as Naruto'. If that were the case, why, never not one time has Sasuke achieved a new power, ability, or whatever, and sought out Naruto? Because from the point he leaves, he's not interested in anything Konoha anymore.

The last part of Sasuke's character a lot of people also 'put to the side' is one has to remember, Sasuke spent at least a portion of his early life, where there were problems between Uchiha, and Konoha, and thats the reason ultimately the Coup was thought up and pursued. That equates to animosity on both sides, whether unspoken or not. To date the only clan that was a part of any village, and that had been separated from they're supposed village was the Uchihas. That is a shameful walk, and prolly pissed off many Uchiha whom knew they had nothing to do with the events that landed the clan where it was, and many prolly felt between a rock and a hard place. Therefore, coming to live with those who sent my Brother to kill my parents and my clan, wouldn't sit well with an Uchiha, especially a Prince. He knew he wasn't 'with his own', and thats why he ultimately left, they was nothing to 'fix' or 'work out' because the leadership of Konoha had the supposed nuts to order all that death, but not the nuts to support the decision, so they said 'lets keep it a secret that hopefully nobody finds out'.

And for all the reasons a lot of people bash Sasuke, thats why I respect him. He didn't just follow the 'ninja path' Konoha sets for people; didn't follow the path Itachi left for him, and is one of the top shinobi basically living on his own since Vote, every character in the manga hasn't shown the inside stuff to survive as Sasuke has. He's not the best, or the baddest, but he does matter, no one can question that. And he did it the Frank Sinatra way, his way.

Forest of Death, Sasuke pussed out, I'd think Oro would like a word with you, actually I'd say Sasuke gave him one of the worse asswhuppings he took to date until he put the CS on Sasuke.

General note: you don't defend your point well at all when you deny what happened in the fucking manga. Sasuke was scared shitless of Oro and refused to fight at all until Naruto stood up to Oro, got fucking owned, and Sakura called Sasuke out on being a puss. That's when Sasuke got over himself, had his little inner monologue about how he could never manage to get his revenge if he was too scared to risk his life and fight Oro.

Then on to Gaara, the thing people just throw to the side is that Sasuke was in pain when he wasn't 'sync'd' after using the power of the CS, additionally jutsu's and stuff aren't availlable to novices under the power of the CS, thats specifically why Oro gave it to the people he did, because they HAD to seek him out. This was obviously the truth when Kakashi was attempting his 'Medicine Man' Sealing Tech when Oro slid in on Sasuke and Kakashi as he was attempting his brand of voodoo magic, whiich was far beneath Orochimaru's CS abilities. But what did the Konoha people say.... forget about the CS, use abilites without the use of that, to a genin whom is still learning about chakra control and its abilities, yeah that makes as much sense as 'fight without your legs, you can win'. Sure if his name was Naruto. We're gonna jump for joy because Naruto was trained in summoning prior to Sasuke? Who cares, a Summons was required to defeat Gaara in that Arc, and obviously nobody trained Sasuke in that up to that point, big whuup, when I read the manga, after the Gaara stuff, I got the feeling that Sasuke felt he couldn't rely on his own strength, and the Konoha was simply didn't work for his goals of getting Itachi.

Goddamn you're missing the point hard. You're so obsessed with defending Sasuke that you can't see that the argument is not "IS NARUTO BETTAR THAN SASKUE THAN!?" The point is that Naruto's ability to defeat Gaara where Sasuke had failed, regardless of reason, dealt a massive blow to Sasuke's pride. Which it did.

When Itachi show'd up it matters not that Itachi and Kisame were more interested in Naruto, they'res one thing that Sasuke bashers just step past, Dude saw his Mother and Father slayed by his Brother in front of his face. Nobody forgets that, and that drove Sasuke to where he is today, it has soo much less to do with 'I'm not as powerful as Naruto'. If that were the case, why, never not one time has Sasuke achieved a new power, ability, or whatever, and sought out Naruto? Because from the point he leaves, he's not interested in anything Konoha anymore.

What are you even arguing here? Of course Itachi showing up had a lot to do with his decision to leave. No fucking shit. But that's not all there is to it. Sasuke believed he needed ever more power, more than he could get in Konoha, because Naruto had been wounding his pride for so long. He was thinking along the lines of "If even Naruto is more powerful than me, how can I ever hope to beat Itachi?" And Orochimaru offered him power. Sasuke felt a need to prove himself better than Naruto just like Naruto always felt a need to prove himself TO Sasuke. Why do you think he instigated their fight on the hospital?

And why are you arguing about how he felt after the timeskip? That has nothing to do with what motivated him prior to it.

The last part of Sasuke's character a lot of people also 'put to the side' is one has to remember, Sasuke spent at least a portion of his early life, where there were problems between Uchiha, and Konoha, and thats the reason ultimately the Coup was thought up and pursued. That equates to animosity on both sides, whether unspoken or not. To date the only clan that was a part of any village, and that had been separated from they're supposed village was the Uchihas. That is a shameful walk, and prolly pissed off many Uchiha whom knew they had nothing to do with the events that landed the clan where it was, and many prolly felt between a rock and a hard place. Therefore, coming to live with those who sent my Brother to kill my parents and my clan, wouldn't sit well with an Uchiha, especially a Prince. He knew he wasn't 'with his own', and thats why he ultimately left, they was nothing to 'fix' or 'work out' because the leadership of Konoha had the supposed nuts to order all that death, but not the nuts to support the decision, so they said 'lets keep it a secret that hopefully nobody finds out'.

1. Sasuke was completely unaware of the conflict between the Uchiha and the village.
2. Sasuke spent his entire childhood being told what an honor it was to be part of the Uchiha Police, having the special position of being the protectors and law of the village.

You're arguing that Sasuke was fully aware of the tension when we know for a fact that he wasn't. This whole paragraph is complete bollocks.

And for all the reasons a lot of people bash Sasuke, thats why I respect him. He didn't just follow the 'ninja path' Konoha sets for people; didn't follow the path Itachi left for him, and is one of the top shinobi basically living on his own since Vote, every character in the manga hasn't shown the inside stuff to survive as Sasuke has. He's not the best, or the baddest, but he does matter, no one can question that. And he did it the Frank Sinatra way, his way.

The thing is, all of those decisions were driven by unrelenting arrogance and complete disrespect for everyone who ever cared about him. Sure it's "his" path, but "his path" is pissing on Itachi's memory while trying to claim that he's honoring him. He doesn't listen to reason or morality anymore, he's basically just driven by pure impulse and emotion. That's why I can't stand him; he's so purely unsympathetic, and he's so much less compelling a character in part 2 compared to part 1.

General note: you don't defend your point well at all when you deny what happened in the fucking manga. Sasuke was scared shitless of Oro and refused to fight at all until Naruto stood up to Oro, got fucking owned, and Sakura called Sasuke out on being a puss. That's when Sasuke got over himself, had his little inner monologue about how he could never manage to get his revenge if he was too scared to risk his life and fight Oro.



Goddamn you're missing the point hard. You're so obsessed with defending Sasuke that you can't see that the argument is not "IS NARUTO BETTAR THAN SASKUE THAN!?" The point is that Naruto's ability to defeat Gaara where Sasuke had failed, regardless of reason, dealt a massive blow to Sasuke's pride. Which it did.



What are you even arguing here? Of course Itachi showing up had a lot to do with his decision to leave. No fucking shit. But that's not all there is to it. Sasuke believed he needed ever more power, more than he could get in Konoha, because Naruto had been wounding his pride for so long. He was thinking along the lines of "If even Naruto is more powerful than me, how can I ever hope to beat Itachi?" And Orochimaru offered him power. Sasuke felt a need to prove himself better than Naruto just like Naruto always felt a need to prove himself TO Sasuke. Why do you think he instigated their fight on the hospital?

And why are you arguing about how he felt after the timeskip? That has nothing to do with what motivated him prior to it.



1. Sasuke was completely unaware of the conflict between the Uchiha and the village.
2. Sasuke spent his entire childhood being told what an honor it was to be part of the Uchiha Police, having the special position of being the protectors and law of the village.

You're arguing that Sasuke was fully aware of the tension when we know for a fact that he wasn't. This whole paragraph is complete bollocks.



The thing is, all of those decisions were driven by unrelenting arrogance and complete disrespect for everyone who ever cared about him. Sure it's "his" path, but "his path" is pissing on Itachi's memory while trying to claim that he's honoring him. He doesn't listen to reason or morality anymore, he's basically just driven by pure impulse and emotion. That's why I can't stand him; he's so purely unsympathetic, and he's so much less compelling a character in part 2 compared to part 1.

Okay because Sasuke was scared shitless in the Forest of Death, Naruto is a better shinobi because you think so, or some other random characters in the manga, I'm sorry where's the 'Trophy' becuase while all of that sexy Naruto stuff did happen, at the end of the battle, Naruto was knocked the fuck out, Sakura was a cheerleader, and Sasuke ultimately beat down the vessel that Oro was using to the point where he applied his CS, and got the freak out of dodge. So lets not act like Naruto was there standing tall and battling to the end of the battle like WB in One Piece, not the case, therefore, it was a Team win, with little to no effort from Sakura, and Sasuke recieved the worse end of the deal, the CS.

The Naruto defeating Gaara with Shuukaku did bother Sasuke's pride, I have no problem saying that, but everything he did wasn't hindged upon Naruto, whereas thats how Naruto has lived his life, chasing Sasuke. Sasuke was more enamored with Itachi, finding him, and having enough ability to defeat him. If all Sasuke needed was to be a good shinobi, and follow the Konoha way, #1 why didn't that useless seal that Kakashi attempted on Oro's CS work, #2 why didn't he seek help from like Anko, or somebody else who would possibly have greater knowledge on subduing the effects. #2 You talk about being scared shitless, when Kakashi was attempting to seal the freaking thing, Oro slid up on them and Kakashi looked like his life passed before his eyes several times and he shitted actual bricks. Yup Sasuke was sitting there watching this shit, and when the wacked ass seal didn't work, it was just as Oro said 'you will come see me to gain more power'. Because thats what he deemed he needed and decided that it wouldn't be probable, or possible within his timeframe that he wanted. Notice all the OTHER shit that was going on, Kages dying, blah blah, he gave not 2 shits about Konoha business specifically after getting wrecked by Itachi in the hallway, just gaining more power, which makes normal sense to me.

The hospital shit, Sasuke was a spoiled irritated ex-Prince, living with nobody he grew up with specifically, (notice in all the flashbacks, they're are none with Sasuke and anyone inside of Konoha walls, nobody) irritated by the stumbling block the CS was causing, and the lack of control of his destiny, which at the time he was feeling like I'll never catch up to Itachi messing around here. I'm not saying Sasuke pride was never hurt or whatever, he didn't seemingly hang on to it the way some act like he did. The proof is even when some other character started talking about Naruto, he didn't even want to hear about it, while Naruto the direct opposite, the stalker. At some point, prolly after that altercation Sasuke menatall officially checked out of Konoha, Team 7, and was then 100% immersed in his own business. Thats not to be unexpected IMHO, Sasuke didn't grow up playing hide go seek and couldn't find a partner like Chouji/Shika, or others from 'THAT' Chuunin Exam, like Suna Shinobi whom were siblings and grew up together. Sasuke had very little connection with these characters beyond his dealings in the Academy, I can't understand why people expected him to 'feel the love', and 'join our gang', he didn't fit, and the storyline set him up not to fit.

While I don't feel that Sasuke knew anything specific about the Coup, or whatever, it was very notable that NO other Uchiha besides Itachi considered Konoha 'comrades'. They'res no interaction in which Konoha offered an olive branch to the Uchiha's besides what Hiruzen was going to try to do. That being the case, and the Uchihas not being seen present in anything besides the Police Force would make me believe that Sasuke percieved characters in the Uchiha Village friends A LOT more different than Konoha which the situation produced. Lets not pretend that the Uchiha's were cool with everyone and everything that was Konoha, and Sasuke's Dad, and a few Uchiha Elders jumped off the deep end. Coups don't get planned, or happen at all if that were the case. Though Sasuke never verbally said it, the only 2 people he's shown 'love' to in the entire manga was his Mother, and Itachi. He never showd real 'love' for anyone, even Naruto, what they formed was a mutual respect IMHO, and Naruto spoke it himself, 'I can't ever catch up with you'. May not be the case but he felt that toward Sasuke, his word.

Lastly, I have no problem with Sasuke pissing on Itachi's dreams, or Kakashi's wishes, I prefer him being his own character, and not a shadow of others, or a simple soldier that follows others orders. Besides the Uchihas were supposedly these jealous, stubborn, hard headed, only think about themselves type of clan, what would one expect from one of the Princes of that clan? I would expect nothing less than a Uchiha having his type of personality, its rational in an devastated mind, and thats all you are for the rest of your life after watching your parents perish in front of you, they'res nothing going to be 'logical' in any of your deeds for the rest of ones life IMHO. But thats just me. I can agree to disagree though, everybody dosen't have to have the same opinon of Sasuke as myself, just what I gathered from the manga/anime/storyline.

It amazes me how KYF's fapping to Sasuke can blind him to the fact that arrogance has been Sasuke's defining character trait for the entire series. Rock Lee kicked his ass for it, Gaara terrified the shit out of him because of it, his entire decision to leave Konoha was sparked by his inability to comprehend Naruto being stronger than him, KB merc'd him for it, and the Kage ripped him apart for it.

learn to read, damn!

I think sasukes confidence is misinterpreted as cockiness and nothing more at this point. WHile sasuke has shown arrogance and cockiness in the past I think hes beyond such character flaws at this point

At this point referring to now and his fight with the kages and danzou. Not once did sasuke say or do anything of arrogance only of anger and vengeance.
IN THE PAST as I put sasuke was cocky and arrogant to which Lee did fuck him up for it and so did itachi.

And naruto wasn't stronger and sure as hell wasn't his reason for leaving. It was itachi being stronger that made him leave because sasuke needed power and Oro had it for him, not konaha. Read the manga.

Madara cut down dozens of soldiers faster than the eye could see, Sasuke's only able to come close to that with his strongest shunshin, and that's without factoring Asura Path's rocket boots that would exponentially increase Madara's speed.

WTF is this shit^^^^

Sasukes known for his speed and out manuevered itachi and kept up with raikage in raiton armour and madara cut down some fodder shinobi...:rolleyes:
Theres no comparison!!! Lol at the asuras rocket boot BS, lol.

The power of their ninjutsu and taijutsu isn't even comparable with the extent to which Sasuke's outclassed. As long as Madara can complete a sentence he's smarter than Sasuke at this point.

Lol, quit antisasuke fapping...

And again, denying what has been stated in the manga really doesn't help your case.

Really, so madara hasn't just unleashed a meteor and nothing more other then being on the offense?!?

Where has any of the BS u claimed stated in the manga??? Its not!!! Don't claim fapping instead of reading my post just to go and fap ur self....

Ok here's an interesting one. Jiraya in sage mode vs Kabuto in Sage mode

I think Kabuto has the upper hand here.. plus the frog genjutsu wont work since it's audio based and he can use hydration technique to avoid that.

I'm going to assume that Kabuto does not get Edo Tensei because that would be fucking retarded.

Granted, we've seen very little of what they're each capable of, but given that they both have the same manner of physical enhancements from Sage Mode (Kabuto also has power healing and water shit), I'd give it to Jiraiya. He has way too many tricks to work with for Kabuto to have to match, and the techniques he's shown have been of both immense scale and precision effectiveness. In addition, it's fairly obvious that Kabuto's snakes are not anywhere near the same league as Fukusaku and Shima.

I'm going to assume that Kabuto does not get Edo Tensei because that would be fucking retarded.

Granted, we've seen very little of what they're each capable of, but given that they both have the same manner of physical enhancements from Sage Mode (Kabuto also has power healing and water shit), I'd give it to Jiraiya. He has way too many tricks to work with for Kabuto to have to match, and the techniques he's shown have been of both immense scale and precision effectiveness. In addition, it's fairly obvious that Kabuto's snakes are not anywhere near the same league as Fukusaku and Shima.

Yea we can leave out edo tensei.

but granted the toads are powerful Kabuto has Manda 2 and the great white snake sage looks young and might even be in contract with Kabuto.

Kabuto can use water techs to combat J-mans fire and shed blind him and turn his jutsu against him as well as the ground and shit .. I think J-man bites the dust

Kabuto > Orochimaru > Jiraiya.

If based on power then Kabuto wins if not Orochimaru wins just cause he's sneak and dont give a fuck.. I'm sure he'd do something sneaky to win

If based on power then Kabuto wins if not Orochimaru wins just cause he's sneak and dont give a fuck.. I'm sure he'd do something sneaky to win
Huuu??? Kabuto is a sneak as well & is arguably more intelligent than Orochimaru while having a better performance showing when compared to Oro.

Huuu??? Kabuto is a sneak as well & is arguably more intelligent than Orochimaru while having a better performance showing when compared to Oro.

Jury is still out on Kabuto, at Oro's Top of the World Moments, he killed one Kage, battled another his Sensei, and used Edo Tensei to summon Harashirma, and Nidame, survived that battle to live on and battle toe to toe with Kyuubs at 4 tails and out of his mind.... mind you.... Oro walked away from a wild bijuu.

To date, he's done some devious work outside of the battlefield, and on the battlefield of all that he's summoned according to the masses, besides Edo-Madara they're all trash to the Konoha Kage Gods from what I've read. On the battlefield controlling his Edo's he obviously sucks, and dosen't understand tactics and counters well. Vs. Sasuke and Edo-Itachi in Snake Sage Mode, he's been effective with 2 justsu's so far, and he's coming off as 'harder' and 'stronger' ONLY because the Uchihas don't want to simply 'toast' him, if Itachi wasn't planning to attempt cancelling the Edo Tensei.... I'd say this battle would be almost over, notice how he backed away from Sasukes Amaretsu, he has zero answer for that.

Jury is still out on Kabuto, at Oro's Top of the World Moments, he killed one Kage, battled another his Sensei, and used Edo Tensei to summon Harashirma, and Nidame, survived that battle to live on and battle toe to toe with Kyuubs at 4 tails and out of his mind.... mind you.... Oro walked away from a wild bijuu.
1. Orochimaru barely did anything against Sarutobi. Orochimaru got grabbed & basically did a tug of war with his spirit & got lucky in the end.

2. Summoning dead people isn't a feet. Kabuto can & has done the same.

3. Let's actually list feets. Kabuto defeated Tsunade, Shizuni, Naruto, Anko, Yamato & is currently facing two Uchiha both of which utterly pwned Oro.

4. Oro defeated Anko, Papa Gaara(never shown so could have gotten help), Naruto & Sasuke &...... that's about it.

To date, he's done some devious work outside of the battlefield, and on the battlefield of all that he's summoned according to the masses, besides Edo-Madara they're all trash to the Konoha Kage Gods from what I've read.
Again Huuu?? So former Jinks & Kages are utter garbage? Again how does that make Oro better when by shear number Kabuto is vastly superior to Oro with the jutsu in question?

On the battlefield controlling his Edo's he obviously sucks, and dosen't understand tactics and counters well.
Yeah because it's not like there's an entire army made up of 6 different military powers fighting Kabuto's Edo's riiiight?

Vs. Sasuke and Edo-Itachi in Snake Sage Mode, he's been effective with 2 justsu's so far, and he's coming off as 'harder' and 'stronger' ONLY because the Uchihas don't want to simply 'toast' him, if Itachi wasn't planning to attempt cancelling the Edo Tensei.... I'd say this battle would be almost over, notice how he backed away from Sasukes Amaretsu, he has zero answer for that.
How did Oro do? O yeah he basically got ass raped each & every time he faced one of these guys. Yet Kabuto is facing both at the same time while being able to actually hurt them yet he's supposedly inferior to Oro? The only thing really not allowed is Itachi's genjutsu sword since Amaterasu wouldn't even kill Kabuto LMAO.

Hell I've said it before and I'll say it again Kabuto's sage art animation technique trumps a lot of shit.. I mena you can't get any higher form of shape manipulation than that.

Edo madara (with mokuton, RG and the EMS) VS Tobi (war version with the RG+Special MS abilities)... No heretical demon statue...

In current location of tobi... Go!

Edo madara (with mokuton, RG and the EMS) VS Tobi (war version with the RG+Special MS abilities)... No heretical demon statue...

In current location of tobi... Go!
Does Tobi have his Jink paths?

Does Tobi have his Jink paths?

No Gedo Mazo so no Jink paths....

No Gedo Mazo so no Jink paths....
Then Madara takes this.

Non Edo Madara vs the third hokage

Non Edo Madara vs the third hokage
Well considering that Madara was able to cast a genjutsu on even the Raikage who is supposed to be immune to genjutsu I'd say Madara.

(Kurama Mode) Naruto vs. Bee

No Holds Barred

Bonus Match:

winner vs. Minato

Team Senju (Hashi,Tobi, & Tsunade) VS. Team teacher/student (J-man/Minato/Kakashi/ Naruto)

All at last known power levels

i know the numbers aren't equal but sometimes it's like that.

Then Madara takes this.

How exactly??? Perfect sasanoo wont work on tobi since he can just use his T/S jutsu to evade and his ghost jutsu to avoid sasanoo's attacks while also being able to enter sasanoo to attack edo madara....

Shinrei tensai, bansho tenin, chibaku tensai, amaterasu, ect will not work on tobi since he can just ghost himself which will make all these jutsu have no effect on him allowing tobi to still attack during these attack...
IMO, whoever can land Izanami first will win because it is the only genjutsu capable of landing since it only requires a single touch of the enemy and due to the RG, I do not think they would lose an eye...

So, even with a double EMS+RG doujutsu... its tobi's T/S and ghost jutsu that would give him the edge to win against edo madara since tobi would have the greatest chance of being able to touch madara then cast Izanami... then while in Izanami use Human realms soul snatching ability and take madaras soul defeating the Edo tensai jutsu....

Tobi's special MS abilities give him the advantage to win this fight...

Madara 3/// Tobi 7.....



Non Edo Madara vs the third hokage

EMS madara vs 3rd Hokage Hiruzen sarutobi....

Lol, CS power sasuke that fought itachi would murder sarutobi... Gaara, Raikage, tsuchikage, ect would murder the Hokage who was no match for Oro who was just playing with the 3rd Hokage... watching as his two edos kick the shit out of him... then fighting himself while the edos watch lol.... never fighting together because Hiruzen would have lost in seconds....

Hiruzen sarutobi is the most overrated character in the manga...

How exactly??? Perfect sasanoo wont work on tobi since he can just use his T/S jutsu to evade and his ghost jutsu to avoid sasanoo's attacks while also being able to enter sasanoo to attack edo madara....
Madara doesn't need perfect Susanoo. All he needs to do is continuously attack Tobi until his time for his incorporeal form runs out. Tobi can't teleport with his eye while in an incorporeal state. With only one sharingan he'd only be able to use Izanagi once while doing so would eliminate his ability to teleport. After that Madara would simply overpower Tobi's Rinnegan with his own.

Tobi on the other hand has nothing that can touch Madara let alone hurt him. Now if Tobi had the jinks power it would be a different story.


(Kurama Mode) Naruto vs. Bee

No Holds Barred

Bonus Match:

winner vs. Minato
Naruto wins both fights.

Team Senju (Hashi,Tobi, & Tsunade) VS. Team teacher/student (J-man/Minato/Kakashi/ Naruto)

All at last known power levels

i know the numbers aren't equal but sometimes it's like that.

Team Senju gets flattened. Minato is at the very least a match to Tobirama (assuming no Edo Tensei because again that's fucking stupid. Hell even then Minato would probably still beat him because seals.) Jiraiya alone could beat Tsunade handily.

And so we're left with Kakashi and Sir Nukes-A-Lot vs. Hashirama. Hashirama alone could probably beat Kakashi + Jiraiya, Minato would be a stalemate thanks to Minato being too fast to hit but not being capable of harming Hashirama at all. But Naruto, at his current "able to overpower 5 bijuu at once" power levels is just beyond what Hashirama can handle. His speed is on par with Minato's and he can hit Hashirama so hard that even the crazy healing powers would not be near enough to save him. And on top of all that you have Kakashi, probably the second smartest character in the damn manga behind Shikamaru, with a game-over instakill in the form of kamui.

Wouldn't Tsunade just hang back and be the healer in that fight though? I couldn't imagine letting your healer fight up front. Hashi alone (from all the hype) could stand up against that team. I don't think Naruto is as big a threat to Hashi as you think, seeing as he's been up against Kurama a few times, he has to have some way to deal with bijuu. Also, his mokuton was off the wall crazy, even Edo Madara who's was one of the largest we've seen, only got a fraction of his power through DNA. Imagine full scale Hashi mokuton. I do however think Team Naruto would win it, but definitely not as easy as you made it sound.

The problem with that battle setup is it's 3 vs 4. With Tsunade staying back since she'd lose to any of them in a 1 vs 1 it's really 2 vs 4.

With Minato's space/time techniques he can pretty much nullify Hashirama's jutsu. Minato basically would be the defensive wall protecting the team. While you have not one but two Toad summoners with Jiraiya & Naruto they would make short work of Tobirama who uses suiton jutsu. I mean really now water against giant toads I can't be the only one who see's the clear disadvantage here. This isn't even factoring in Kakashi who could simply be used to warp Tsunade into oblivion or use his Kamui for defensive purposes as well.

The problem with that battle setup is it's 3 vs 4. With Tsunade staying back since she'd lose to any of them in a 1 vs 1 it's really 2 vs 4.

With Minato's space/time techniques he can pretty much nullify Hashirama's jutsu. Minato basically would be the defensive wall protecting the team. While you have not one but two Toad summoners with Jiraiya & Naruto they would make short work of Tobirama who uses suiton jutsu. I mean really now water against giant toads I can't be the only one who see's the clear disadvantage here. This isn't even factoring in Kakashi who could simply be used to warp Tsunade into oblivion or use his Kamui for defensive purposes as well.

almost exactly what I was thinking, but you forgot it's 3 Toad summoners, two instant movement users, 3 rasengan users(actually 4 but Kakashi chooses not to) all of them are tactical savy.

But yes I agree team Teacher student for the win.

okay...


Family vs family

Minato/J-man(God Father)/Kushina/Naruto Vs Fugaku/wife/Itachi & Sasuke

All at last know ability level(alive)




Bonus Battle:

Legends (J-man,Oro, & Tsunade w/ 1st, 2nd Hokage, 3rd Raikage & 2nd Tsuchikage) Vs. the Successors (Naruto,Kabuto & Sakura W/Minato, young 3rd Hokage, 4th Raikage, & Oonki son. Katsuchi?)

Are you just trying to make horribly unbalanced fights?

You pit a Hokage, a Sage, and two fucking jinchuuriki against the Uchiha Bros and their death fodder parents? Susano'o nothing; they're fucked.

Even Itachi's magical items of OP bullshit wouldn't be enough to manage against that onslaught.

Which one has the Kyuubi? Seriously though we don't know much about Fugaku or his wife to justify them being a challenge for anyone. From what little we do know about Kushina one could easily make the argument that she could handle both at the same time seeing how she fucking taught Minato sealing jutsu! I honestly don't see Itachi & Sasuke pulling a victory here against Minato, Jiraiya, & Naruto at the same time seeing how much trouble they had with Kabuto who is just one opponent.

Kakashi gaiden- Obito, Rin, Kakashi vs Part 1 Before The NaruxSasu fight- Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura

Kakashi gaiden- Obito, Rin, Kakashi vs Part 1 Before The NaruxSasu fight- Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura
Is Naruto allowed to use the fox?

Edit: Does Sasuke have CS, 2 tomoe sharingan, Chidori, & rock lee taijutsu?

Are you just trying to make horribly unbalanced fights?

You pit a Hokage, a Sage, and two fucking jinchuuriki against the Uchiha Bros and their death fodder parents? Susano'o nothing; they're fucked.

Even Itachi's magical items of OP bullshit wouldn't be enough to manage against that onslaught.

Okay.

Naruto has the fox. But this fight will really be fight of tactics. Fugaku was the HEAD if the Uchiha clan i am sure he was no push over. I will substitute the wife for shisui od the body flicker. That should help.

Kakashi/naruto vs guy and lee



Restrictions: no Kurama/RS mode


Bonus fight: Shikamaru/Neji/Sai vs. Naruto(pre-RS)/ Sasuke/Darui

Okay.

Naruto has the fox. But this fight will really be fight of tactics. Fugaku was the HEAD if the Uchiha clan i am sure he was no push over. I will substitute the wife for shisui od the body flicker. That should help.
Is Shusui allowed to look at Naruto & say "Protect the Uchiha"?

Is Naruto allowed to use the fox?

Edit: Does Sasuke have CS, 2 tomoe sharingan, Chidori, & rock lee taijutsu?

No fox, No CS.

He only has the 2 tomoe, and yes to chidori, and yes to rock lee taijutsu.

Kakashi gaiden- Obito, Rin, Kakashi vs Part 1 Before The NaruxSasu fight- Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura

Team 7 would win by Naruto out numbering and overpowering them. Kakahi was a Jonin so is skills were better than all if them.

BUT obito and rin were not on the same level. Naruto would have to fight both if them of course. Then he would help Sasuke cause with his SG he would be at a stalemate against young Jonin Kakashi.

No fox, No CS.

He only has the 2 tomoe, and yes to chidori, and yes to rock lee taijutsu.
So we're at a point where Naruto & Sasuke have already developed team tactics & Sasuke has gained training from Kakashi. Well then team 7 win this.

Rin would probably kill Sakura but they're both useless so it doesn't matter.

This is basically Naruto & Sasuke vs Obito & Kakashi. Sorry to say but Kakashi & Obito weren't exactly the best of teammates while Naruto & Sasuke at this point have been coordinating attacks on a number of occasions. As an Uchiha Obito is basically useless save for 1 fire tec which Naruto is seen pushing through when facing Sasuke. Kakashi would have to pick up most of the slack for his team & without a sharingan (since Obito should still have his) Naruto & Sasuke working together should be enough to take him out. Both Naruto & Sasuke have experience facing Jounin level opponents at this point because of Zabuza, Haku, & even Gaara. I won't even take into account Naruto summoning Bunta since that's overkill.
Kakashi/naruto vs guy and lee



Restrictions: no Kurama/RS mode
Kakashi & Naruto win this. Naruto even without Kurama has Sage Mode. Kakashi can take out Lee while Naruto takes on Guy.


Bonus fight: Shikamaru/Neji/Sai vs. Naruto(pre-RS)/ Sasuke/Darui
This one isn't even fair dude.

Naruto takes all 3 out by himself using Sage Mode.

Sasuke takes all 3 out by himself using Susanoo/Amaterasu/Genjutsu.

Darui takes all 3 out(yeah that's right) by himself using uber Black Lightning Jutsu along with Suiton & superior Taijutsu via sword skill.

The only rookie that is worth a damn aside from the gay demi gods is Choji. His attacks have decent power behind them in giant butterfly form and he tanked a roar from Gedo Mazo.

The rest are worthless.

How about...

Kurotsuchi vs Konan in an open area.

Konan.



Now...

Battle Royale Konoha 12 (right now) all for themselves, NO teams!

The final two vs

The final two of a Jonin & Kage battle Royale with all rhe known Jonins with team and all the Kages AFTER the FIRST Hokage.

Winners vs winners

I think it would be

Sasuke/ Naruto vs. Minato and J-Man

With Minato's experience for the Ultimate win!

The battleroyal btween the k12 is pointless cuase there is no other outcome apartfrom naruto and sasuke winning even if they were against eachother the shockwaves btween thier attaks is enough to knock the rest out then from the other battel royal i would have to say the 3rd Hokage and the 4th but in the end i would say it would be btween the 3rd and Naruto with naruto winning he has already surpassed everyone also im taking about the 3rd in his prime, this guy knows every tec in konoha has alot more experience then minato and he is just a beast but naruto is the beast of all beasts he has too many hax his as fast as minato he has a strong rasengan what more does he need

So we're at a point where Naruto & Sasuke have already developed team tactics & Sasuke has gained training from Kakashi. Well then team 7 win this.

Rin would probably kill Sakura but they're both useless so it doesn't matter.

This is basically Naruto & Sasuke vs Obito & Kakashi. Sorry to say but Kakashi & Obito weren't exactly the best of teammates while Naruto & Sasuke at this point have been coordinating attacks on a number of occasions. As an Uchiha Obito is basically useless save for 1 fire tec which Naruto is seen pushing through when facing Sasuke. Kakashi would have to pick up most of the slack for his team & without a sharingan (since Obito should still have his) Naruto & Sasuke working together should be enough to take him out. Both Naruto & Sasuke have experience facing Jounin level opponents at this point because of Zabuza, Haku, & even Gaara. I won't even take into account Naruto summoning Bunta since that's overkill.

Kakashi & Naruto win this. Naruto even without Kurama has Sage Mode. Kakashi can take out Lee while Naruto takes on Guy.



This one isn't even fair dude.

Naruto takes all 3 out by himself using Sage Mode.

Sasuke takes all 3 out by himself using Susanoo/Amaterasu/Genjutsu.

Darui takes all 3 out(yeah that's right) by himself using uber Black Lightning Jutsu along with Suiton & superior Taijutsu via sword skill.

I just want to say HOLY SHIT DUDE your still going on here strong huh been a few years since I have been on here but somehow I still remembered my password. Anyways Just saying hi man.

The only rookie that is worth a damn aside from the gay demi gods is Choji. His attacks have decent power behind them in giant butterfly form and he tanked a roar from Gedo Mazo.

The rest are worthless.

OK then...

Choji in Butterfly mode, with Shikamaru as advice only vs Rock Lee with 2nd Gate unlocked.

OK then...

Choji in Butterfly mode, with Shikamaru as advice only vs Rock Lee with 2nd Gate unlocked.

...Are you trying to make a point here or something?

Rock Lee has bullshit speed, yes. But here's the thing, when Choji goes Lean Cuisine, all of his physical abilities go crazy. He can kill with a single punch. That feat wasn't truly equaled (ignoring things that fail at "show don't tell") until Sage Mode Naruto. His movement speed is crazy too. And he can fucking supersize himself at will. Rock Lee has...some hits that were barely capable of bashing through Gaara's defenses? Choji OHKO'd someone whose entire schtick was having superhuman strength and durability.

Rock Lee might have a chance if he were up to 6th gate, and would probably win at 7th. But just 2nd? His physical appearance hasn't even changed at that point. All he has then is a primary lotus. What good is that going to do against Fatzilla?

Ok so not one person is going to even analyze Kurotsuchi vs Konan? I mean really now both have abilities capable of taking the other out. Is it because people don't know who Kurotsuchi is? Well she's the grand daughter of Oonoki you know the chick from the rock who momentarily captured Kauto? She can fly has 3 elements & a KKG where she can create cement by fusing earth & fire. So not one person is going to give a legitimate argument about why one of these females should come out the victor?

PS: Just to clarify something. Ranking system for the Konoha 12.

1. Naruto(for obvious reasons)
2. Sasuke(for obvious reasons)
3. Chouji(He's actually one of the strongest shinobi currently in Konoha)
4. Sakura(Sleep Bombs, Poison that can take down a Jink, Superhuman strength, & Healing ability)
5. Shino(A bugs life rule most but bug hate smoke)
6. Shikamaru(Intelligence & Shadow Disciplines)
7. Neji(Better Taijutsu than Lee)
8. Rock Lee(Better Taijutsu than Kiba)
9. Kiba(Can smell stuff)
10. Tenten(Better Taijutsu when compared to the other worthless females)
11. Hinata(Slightly less worthless when compared to Ino)
12. Ino(Would actually be good if her family abilities where expanded on. Worthless without a team)

Is it because people don't know who Kurotsuchi is?

I didn't know who that was.

Just goes to show how memorable the side characters in Narido are thanks to Kishi's neglecting style. I don't agree with your tier list either.

I'm not sold on Sakura at all. She has strength but her combat skills are shit. I don't see her taking out Neji or Lee. The poison knife thing was a gag, I don't take it seriously. It's like Nami whooping Luffy's ass with her punches when he can survive having a mountain sized skull dropped on top of him.

If the fighters had time to prepare Konan would win she would of killed tobi if not for izanagi but if no then i think the other chik with her cement would win im gonna look through her abillites more carfully when i do ill add more

About her flying, wasn't it because of Oonoki's jutsu ?

I think only that guy was flying due to the jutsu cant be fucked looking back through the manga also with the rankings this is how i got it

1.Naruto
2.Sasuke
3.Shino
4.choji
5.neji
6.rock lee
7.shikumaru (smarts would be num one but strength wise he is week and any tank would be him)
8.sakura
9.kiba
10.hinata
11.tenten
12. Ino

I went back and checked ( Yeah I know ) and it was because of Oonoki's jutsu.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c513

Bottom panel.

That's such a close match up.

I personally think Konan would take it though. It just depend on the effect of Kurotsuchi's Lava jutsu. We already know, that fire and water don't bother Konan's paper at all. With her ability to launch, harden, and fly(as well as Kurotsuchi), she can also subdue, and usually hides paper bombs inside her jutsu. All of that on top of being a decent strategist, and a hard target to hit, puts her on top. It really depends on Kurotsuchi's Lava jutsu though.

Edit: Since Kurotsuchi can't fly on her own. Konan def. takes it.

Fire doesn't work on her ?

Link pages ?

Yeah just a second.

Edit: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v41/c371/15.html

I see.

Well, there are burning pieces next to her face, that tells me fire does work but Jiraya's katon was simply too weak to bypass her defenses. Saying that no fire works on her would be a no limits fallacy.

Well, I don't see any paper that's actually apart of Konan that's burned. I won't say that no fire works on her, because I'm sure Amaterasu or some other high level technique would work. What I meant was that fire is not a weakness. The fact she faced that blast head on, also suggests to me she has some resistance to it. Likely because of the chakra infused in the paper.

jericho Uzumaki I think you need to take a break. xD

Interesting matchup at first look with Kurotsuchi and Konan, but you have to remember Konan is a high ranking Akatsuki and Kurotsuchi is probably overall around Asuma's level of skill. Konan pretty much raped the leaf village with no lube, then walked away unscathed from the entire Pain invasion, and even had Tobi by the grapes. Konan wins. Fatality.

How about: Hokage Kakashi (hokage scroll + sharingan = God of Ninja reborn) vs. Sasuke (with the Danzo fight's Susano'o)

How about this four-way tag-team rumble:
Sarutobi(old)/Orochimaru vs. Minato/Kakashi(MS) vs. Jiraya/Naruto (Senjutsu and FRS, no Kurama mode) vs. Muu/Oonoki(young)

Skilled as Hiruzen is, he's not going to fare well against any of the other teams. Both Minato/Kakashi and Jiraiya/Naruto have intense speed and power advantages, while Muu/Onoki can flat out One-Hit everything. Minato and Kakashi are the only ones with a prayer in hell of surviving Dust Element thanks to their space-time techniques, so it boils down to Muu/Onoki vs Minato/Kakashi. Onoki I can definitely see the team 7 tag team beating, but Muu would be virtually impossible for them to detect. Minato would be able to nullify his techs or even turn them against Muu, but only if he knew where Muu was or had already placed a hiraishin seal on him (unlikely). In the end I give it to Muu/Onoki.

Skilled as Hiruzen is, he's not going to fare well against any of the other teams. Both Minato/Kakashi and Jiraiya/Naruto have intense speed and power advantages, while Muu/Onoki can flat out One-Hit everything. Minato and Kakashi are the only ones with a prayer in hell of surviving Dust Element thanks to their space-time techniques, so it boils down to Muu/Onoki vs Minato/Kakashi. Onoki I can definitely see the team 7 tag team beating, but Muu would be virtually impossible for them to detect. Minato would be able to nullify his techs or even turn them against Muu, but only if he knew where Muu was or had already placed a hiraishin seal on him (unlikely). In the end I give it to Muu/Onoki.

Interesting analysis.

This one, imo, is a coin toss.

Each team has a weak point. Team Hiruzen/Oro is arguably the weakest in taijutsu, because of their lack of speed compared to the others. Team Minato/Kakashi has the lowest stamina amongst the duos thanks to Kakashi; so if the longer this fight goes, the worse it gets for this team. Team Jiraya/Naruto's weakness is genjutsu. And Muu/Oonoki, as far as we know, don't have a summon to aid in the fight, but they have the one-hit-kill jutsus as you've said.

Since stamina, age, and speed are concerns for Hiruzen and Oro, I've got them being the first team out.

While Kakashi and Minato have t/s jutsus, Minato is possibly limited to Gamabunta as a summon, while Jiraya has been known to summon a plethora of them. Not to mention that both he and Naruto have the stamina. Once Kakashi has used Kamui once, I think he's down for the count, and Minato wouldn't be able to handle Jiraya, Naruto, and the summons by himself. The senjutsu for both Jiraya and Naruto would aid in their defense against Minato's FTG.

Since Oonoki can fly, and both he and Muu have the dust element, I think they could outlast Naruto and Jiraya, and one-hit-kill them.

J_H, I put my bet on minato/kikashi.

Cause age really play apart and old sarutobi is straight out of it... (unless madara is team mate, orochimaru is alright but not outstanding)

And young onoki can't even tell madara was toying with him and brag to the world he battle to a draw, showing a miserable lack in experience so he's out of it too... (again same as old sarutobi, if madara is onoki partner than there's chance)

And so when it comes down to minato/kakashi vs jiraiya/naruto...

I am sure naruto will be a lot more if he can (as he always did) called upon the fox power which in this case he can't.

Thus minato/kakashi is my bet.

Edit: i forgot about Oro and his Edo Tensei technique. But i think if you count Edo Tensei in, it will be a big advantage to Orochimaru team.

How about this four-way tag-team rumble:
Sarutobi(old)/Orochimaru vs. Minato/Kakashi(MS) vs. Jiraya/Naruto (Senjutsu and FRS, no Kurama mode) vs. Muu/Oonoki(young)

These are nothing but student teacher match ups.

Sarutobi has all the jutsu , but Orochi has many as well, plus they know each other's moves well.

VS

Minato has excellent taijutsu with FTG/Kakashi doesn't just rely on MS, he has many jutsu as well. Minato and Kakashi would have each others backs well.


Outcome.....

Minato surpassed Sarutobi BEFORE he got old, his speed would stop/counter Sarutobi from using those jutsu of his.
Kakashi may get in a situation where he has to use Orochimaru's weakness, Sharinghan genjutsu. If he gets in trouble Minato will help, since he would take out Sarutobi alone.



J-man is the MASTER of SAGE arts, he knows Sage jutsu Naruto doesn't. he is a master of the rasengan as well, in his own right.

Naruto is a Toad Sage with perfected Sage mode that he can get in and out of quicker than J-man. He has perfected Rasengan it is an ideal part of his taijutsu. plus Rasenshuriken is remote control.

VS

Muu has that split jutsu BUT i think that is in emergency only and he has the dust element plus flight.

Oonki is really just a copy of Muu without the split technique and not as strong(younger version)

Outcome...

Sage mode saves from dust element. sage arts allows hitting target without contact. RS takes out target form long range.

Even if they outlast J-Man Naruto has stamina and clones with NE gathered. (if he knows he is going into a fight.)

Minato/Kakashi VS J-man/Naruto

Speed of Minato will be a issue, but with the durability and Sensing ability of Sage Mode....not much. One good shot from either one will take Minato out, more than likely it would be a collision of strikes from both, Minato lacks the durability...KO.

Kakashi won't last against either one of them, he has never surpassed J-man and Naruto has already surpassed him (BEFORE RS mode). Besides Minato will still be in defend/offensive/save partner mode. His down fall as well.

Outcome is Team Toad Sage wins.

also in the last fight NO TOAD summons, they are not gonna fight each other no matter who summons them.

j_U what are you smoking? How does Sage Mode match up to Ninja Nukes (Dust Element) in any way? I mean it's like you're trying to play Dust element like it's not an important factor. Let's remind ourselves that Onoki was capable of completely destroying the entire Island Turtle with Dust Element. And Muu is basically Onoki with weaker Dust Element and a whole other bag of tricks that compensate tenfold.

Not only that, you seem like you're downplaying the importance of lightspeed teleportation on Minato's end, as well as his ability to use S/T to warp any attack thrown at him elsewhere. Considering that Jiraiya and Naruto are collectively about as stealthy as the Macy's Day Parade, there's no reason that they'd even have a reasonable expectation to hit Minato.

I mean...what? What?

j_U what are you smoking? How does Sage Mode match up to Ninja Nukes (Dust Element) in any way? I mean it's like you're trying to play Dust element like it's not an important factor. Let's remind ourselves that Onoki was capable of completely destroying the entire Island Turtle with Dust Element. And Muu is basically Onoki with weaker Dust Element and a whole other bag of tricks that compensate tenfold.

Not only that, you seem like you're downplaying the importance of lightspeed teleportation on Minato's end, as well as his ability to use S/T to warp any attack thrown at him elsewhere. Considering that Jiraiya and Naruto are collectively about as stealthy as the Macy's Day Parade, there's no reason that they'd even have a reasonable expectation to hit Minato.

I mean...what? What?

Yeah the only thing seen that surpasses Dust Element was Ultimate Susanno.

Yeah the only thing seen that surpasses Dust Element was Ultimate Susanno.

And the uber rainbow rasengan thingy.... that's my prediction for Naruto's move/powerup to counter the perfect susanoo.

How about this four-way tag-team rumble:
Sarutobi(old)/Orochimaru vs. Minato/Kakashi(MS) vs. Jiraya/Naruto (Senjutsu and FRS, no Kurama mode) vs. Muu/Oonoki(young)

Kakashi sits to the side and reads a book while minato takes on everyone lol...

Oro would likely go after minato to try and gather secrets of his bloodline and his jutsu...
WHile saurtobi teamed up with Jman and naruto to beat Muu and Oonoki...

In the end, minato would wipe his ass with Oro while everyone, but Muu would likely all thats left after the clash between the five (jman escaped because he is not an idiot..)

W/e is left of Muu would not last long against Minato since dust element could be sent to another dimension with minato T/S barrier jutsu.... and although Muu is invisible, kakashi with the SG could track him for minato allowing for a FTG blow out... then another right after muu splits in two trying to escape...

Minato/kakashi win...

Or minato vs all....

everyone will knw minato is the biggest threat and go after him first... while kakashi runs and hides.. Minato throws out his kunai, but Muu and Oonoki use one dust element to destroy the kunai while the other attacks minato.. but minato FTG's to a seal outside the fight zone in konoha... everyone thinks minato is dead...

Sarutobi and naruto battle with Kage bushin battle while Oro and Jman fight...

Muu goes invisible moving into a position to ambush jman and Oro to take out both.. while Oonoki move into position to ambush naruto and saurtobi...

Muu and Oonoki make they're move and end up killing sarutobi and Oro, but Naruto in SM senses the attack coming and jumps high out of the attack while Jman has Ma and Pa frog see the attack coming for him then all three get out just in time...

However, while naruto is about to be killed by another dust element attack from above, Jman has Ma summon naruto out of the way which leaves him, ma and pa open for Muu to attack killing jman and sage frogs...
Naruto pissed goes 6tail mode kyuubi.... Oonki steps up to take out the kyuubi mode naruto, but out of nowhere Minato appears and hits Onooki with a rasegan from behind... while kakashi gets Muu from behind with a chidori...

Turns out kakashi was placing minato's seals under ground for him while moving around and tracking muu with his SG that can see chakra.. even Muus.... through a solid object like the top layer of the ground...
With those two taken out... Minato steps up to face 6tail naruto, transports his bijuu bomb to another dimension with his T/S barrier jutsu then places a seal on KN6, sealing the kyuubi's chakra back in naruto and strengthening the seal... naruto is out cold...

Kakashi/minato win....

Skilled as Hiruzen is, he's not going to fare well against any of the other teams. Both Minato/Kakashi and Jiraiya/Naruto have intense speed and power advantages, while Muu/Onoki can flat out One-Hit everything. Minato and Kakashi are the only ones with a prayer in hell of surviving Dust Element thanks to their space-time techniques, so it boils down to Muu/Onoki vs Minato/Kakashi. Onoki I can definitely see the team 7 tag team beating, but Muu would be virtually impossible for them to detect. Minato would be able to nullify his techs or even turn them against Muu, but only if he knew where Muu was or had already placed a hiraishin seal on him (unlikely). In the end I give it to Muu/Onoki.

Kakashi's SG could easily track Muu... While Minato could easily track Oonoki long enough to throw a kunai to catch up with him then place a seal which spells game over....

Kakashi/minato would take this due to minato's undetectable speed, kakashi and minato's ability to nullify any attack with T/S barrier jutsu's... and kakashi's ability to track Muu who is invisible... including his breaking into two people too...

Kakashi's SG could easily track Muu... While Minato could easily track Oonoki long enough to throw a kunai to catch up with him then place a seal which spells game over....

Kakashi/minato would take this due to minato's undetectable speed, kakashi and minato's ability to nullify any attack with T/S barrier jutsu's... and kakashi's ability to track Muu who is invisible... including his breaking into two people too...

I mean it's been a while, but let's remember that Muu doesn't even give off chakra in his invisibility state (because he's also a stupidly skilled sensor ninja). Kakashi can't see chakra that isn't there.

http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-525/2/ seen here.

I mean it's been a while, but let's remember that Muu doesn't even give off chakra in his invisibility state (because he's also a stupidly skilled sensor ninja). Kakashi can't see chakra that isn't there.

http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-525/2/ seen here.

But the tsuchikage would have to use chakra in order to use the invisibility ninjutsu itself.... and although sensors cannot sense chakra to the point its like he has no chakra at all... a doujutsu like the BG or SG would see any form chakra Muu would use... using the invisibility ninjutsu would register chakra to a BG or SG obviously...

Unless Muu doesn't use chakra, but something else...the SG or BG should see it..
IMO, I think the opinion about "man with no chakra" came from sensors not doujutsu users... Especially coming from the rock village where there are no doujutsu users... there is no evidence that Muu's chakra could not be seen by the BG or SG.

So kakashi's SG should be the only way to track Muu out of all the shinobi in the fight... unless minato tags Muu by placing them every where in order to catch Muu sneaking around... And since minato can sense anyone of seals easily then he should be able to sense when one moves because its attached itself to someone from landing on it...

Muu isn't that invisible when u consider the intelligence of both kakashi and minato along with the combination of abilities they have between them capable of tracking Muu...

I still say Minato/kakashi team takes the fight...

Also, just thinking that if minato can easily place reverse summoning seals... then getting some blood from anyone of the enemies by cutting with a kunai, stabbing or even taking some hair... and using the regular summoning jutsu to summon the enemy away from the battle field and directly into a rasengan is something minato should be capable..

Example: minato attacks Oro, but Oro hendges and hides... mInato takes some of Oro... FTG's off the battle field to one of his own weapon depots... creates a summoning contract for Oro then summons him... directly into a rasengan or kunai to a vital area... then summon himself back to the battle field and repeat...

It would be effective to just summon the enemy to an attack while on the battle field.. however, by summoning the enemy away from the battle field and his team mate/mates... u have cut off the enemy from any help from allies as well as landing an attack instantly at the same time so even if by some miracle the enemy survives... he is cut off from his allies forced to try and get back to the battle field by directly running there which would take some time which gives minato more of an advantage...

Judging by minato's intelligence... the use of the summoning jutsu to split up the shinobi for one on one fights would be the best strategy that could be employed.. IMO...

The manga says that Muu has no chakra signiture, therefore Kakashi cannot track him through his chakra. The only reason Muu was detected was because of Gaara's sensor sand. Why are you arguing it?

The manga says that Muu has no chakra signiture, therefore Kakashi cannot track him through his chakra. The only reason Muu was detected was because of Gaara's sensor sand. Why are you arguing it?

Yeah Gaara said he was they're, no Sharingan, or even Shino's bugs could detect Muu. He's moved more freely than anyone on the battlefield, between his invisibility, and double body jutsu shit. Additionally, that Dude never went 'all out' in a battle to the death match against anybody. He was like the Dude in the at tv commercial watching a fight scene throughout 3 tv sets in his house... he just got to join in the action occassionally before he got Ghost Whispered into the light.

Think it though Raichu has a 'chakra signal' his speed alone makes it impossible for a sharingan to keep up with. The sharingan ain't perfect, thats why Sasuke stayed held up inside of Imperfect Susanno, because sexy eyes or not, everything has its limitations.

well

That was a thought out battle KYF, until you started speculating abilities.

But anyway, Dust element is fine BUT it is NOT as fast as Rasenshuriken or Giant rasengans that the two Sage Mode users can conjure.

Minato is a master of stealth and speed, Kakashi is a master of stealth(ex ANBU LEADER) I understand this but on an OPEN battle field that can only be used so much.

sage mode can sense chakra, Minato flashes in hits Naruto, doesn't have the same effect due to the durability of Sage Mode.
J-man utilizes "Sage arts: Toad stomach!" ,that will slow anyone that touches the ground down.

We must remember J-man taught Minato, he was first choice for 4th & 5th Hokage. It was NEVER STATED Minato surpassed J-man. It was stated Naruto surpassed J-man,Minato, & Kakashi.

Naruto has been up against many that are faster,stronger , & smarter than him. with a teammate that is a Legendary Sannin, that by way of evolution taught the people they are fighting, he would be victorious.

Now vs. Muu/Oonki(young)

Muu is the most dangerous, Oonki is NOT as powerful as we have seen recently. He is still under Muu.

Either way, Neither J-man or Naruto is so slow as to stand and wait for Dust element to be used. besides Rasenshuriken is remote control, faster and the size can be changed. It attacks on a cellular level, the wounds cannot be healed AND SG can't keep up with how many attacks it is actually doing against the body.

I think that it would be a Chakra battle in the end, who has enough to still be standing.

Naruto's most effect jutsu is and always will be SHADOW CLONE.

there are two outcomes to this fight

Minato wins or Naruto wins

Both or their partners would run out of chakra before the end.

The manga says that Muu has no chakra signiture, therefore Kakashi cannot track him through his chakra. The only reason Muu was detected was because of Gaara's sensor sand. Why are you arguing it?

A chakra SIGNATURE is referring to what a sensor senses... not a doujutsu like the BG or SG... No sensors may be able to detect Muu, but a SG or BG can see any chakra, even through solid objects... Unless it says a doujutsu cannot even detect Muu's chakra then u have an argument because right now it all concersn everything, but doujutsu's...

Not to mention Minato could place his hiraishin seals all over the place so when Muu touches one it could lacth on and move with him alerting minato to muu's position and allow a FTG-rasengan directly to Muu as well...

Dust element can just be turned on other shinobi in the fight with minato or kakashi T/S barrier ninjutsu where they can suck up an attack and release it at certain places... Whats to stop minato and kakashi from releasing the dust element attack on Muu, Oonoki or any of the other shinobi in the fight...

Minato could even FTG kakashi to enemies with him for a tag team FTG attack with a rasengana and chidori... All minato has to do is have contact with kakashi...

Either way kakashi/minato win... there is no way for anyone to even catch minato, much less track his movements so they don't get utterly merced by direct attacks.... Sensory abilities are no better then eyes because they do not SENSE any faster then eyes allowing the user to react any faster... so quit using that argument... Sensing ability is only effective when it comes to tracking a hidden enemy, nothing else...

A chakra SIGNATURE is referring to what a sensor senses... not a doujutsu like the BG or SG... No sensors may be able to detect Muu, but a SG or BG can see any chakra, even through solid objects... Unless it says a doujutsu cannot even detect Muu's chakra then u have an argument because right now it all concersn everything, but doujutsu's...

Not to mention Minato could place his hiraishin seals all over the place so when Muu touches one it could lacth on and move with him alerting minato to muu's position and allow a FTG-rasengan directly to Muu as well...

Dust element can just be turned on other shinobi in the fight with minato or kakashi T/S barrier ninjutsu where they can suck up an attack and release it at certain places... Whats to stop minato and kakashi from releasing the dust element attack on Muu, Oonoki or any of the other shinobi in the fight...

Minato could even FTG kakashi to enemies with him for a tag team FTG attack with a rasengana and chidori... All minato has to do is have contact with kakashi...

Either way kakashi/minato win... there is no way for anyone to even catch minato, much less track his movements so they don't get utterly merced by direct attacks.... Sensory abilities are no better then eyes because they do not SENSE any faster then eyes allowing the user to react any faster... so quit using that argument... Sensing ability is only effective when it comes to tracking a hidden enemy, nothing else...

So basically despite the fact that Muu is stated to be essentially invisible to chakra senses of all kinds (which includes eye techs, since all they do is "see" chakra, which is exactly what the fuck chakra sensory does) and chakra sensing has been shown numerous times to be significantly more precise in its detection abilities than the BG and RG and especially the SG, the SG can easily see him because...Uchiha wank? I mean come on. Naruto could instantly detect the fact that Kakashi was dead from more than a mile away with his sensing and Karin was able to find Danzo from a huge distance and through multiple buildings. The only dojutsu user to ever do anything on that level was Nagato, and that wasn't with his eyes. It was with his, wait for it, chakra-sense rain. The basic Sharingan is not anywhere near the level required for detecting Muu, and Kakashi plops dead after not even 3 uses of the MS which still has no reason why it would detect him.

Chakra sensing is much faster than the eye can see, both living Sage Mode characters make that pretty damn clear. Sasuke's Susano'o arrows are faster than anything short of a Mangekyou sharingan can detect in terms of eyes, but Kabuto dodged it like it was nothing because of chakra sense. Naruto was able to predict and dodge the 3rd Raikage, which absolutely no one else was able to, because of his own Sage Mode chakra senses. So yeah that statement is holy shit levels of false.

I explicitly stated that Minato could turn Dust Element(as well as other attacks) against others. But he still can't find Muu worth half a fuck, and he can't avoid an attack he doesn't know is coming.

EDIT: I will say that the idea of placing the seals all over the place would be a possible answer, but he'd be leaving himself wide open to all 3 other groups while he did so. Kakashi isn't holding off anyone from ruining Minato's day.

my 2 cents on the 4way battle:

muu/oonoki has nuke
minato/kkashi has space time jutsus
jman/naruto has excellent taijutsu (sage mode)
sarutobi/oro has lots of jutsu.

all 3 teams except muu/oonoki team are from konoha, they would defo take out muu/oonoki team first. 2 vs 6 is a settled debate even if they have nuke. so it becomes a 3 way battle.

orochimaru is a human sandbag, and he has edo tensei. sarutobi is old, but he can do death god jutsu. i say their team wins, orochimaru holding back the others, while sarutobi summons death god. game over, unless minato can counter summon. if sarutobi is successful with the death god jutsu, Orochimaru wins.

Huh? Wtf? Am I the only one who got lost?

I still say tobi er obito would beat goku if he had no knowledge of his Justu. Tobi can stay intangible for 5 mins str8 and I'm assuming he can go tangible for a sec and do it again fr 5 mins....gokus not that smart so I don't see him figuring 5 mins.from what ive seen and know tobi being intangible dosent drain him. Goku can run out of energy trying to fight him. This isn't jenemba either. I know this is a big if but if obito sucks goku in his eye gokus done...he can only instant transmission to people he can sense (ki) he locks on and instant trans to them. SSSOOOO I'm thinking if he's in tobi's alternate dimension he'd be fucked. We've argued his b4 but I'm standing on it. If the eye thing doesn't work then goku wins. I realize goku can blow the planet up but he wouldn't....cause he's soft and he doesn't kill innocent people. Plus the naruto ninjas fight dirty gokus been fooled in the past...idk just my pov

I still say tobi er obito would beat goku if he had no knowledge of his Justu. Tobi can stay intangible for 5 mins str8 and I'm assuming he can go tangible for a sec and do it again fr 5 mins....gokus not that smart so I don't see him figuring 5 mins.from what ive seen and know tobi being intangible dosent drain him. Goku can run out of energy trying to fight him. This isn't jenemba either. I know this is a big if but if obito sucks goku in his eye gokus done...he can only instant transmission to people he can sense (ki) he locks on and instant trans to them. SSSOOOO I'm thinking if he's in tobi's alternate dimension he'd be fucked. We've argued his b4 but I'm standing on it. If the eye thing doesn't work then goku wins. I realize goku can blow the planet up but he wouldn't....cause he's soft and he doesn't kill innocent people. Plus the naruto ninjas fight dirty gokus been fooled in the past...idk just my pov

However, SS3 gotenks which goku is stronger then proved with brute power in SS3, one can punch a whole in a dimension to go back to their original which is how he and piccolo got back from the hyperbolic time chamber after getting trapped...

So goku could just punch a hole in tobi's dimension to come home and move so fast that when tobi tries it again he blast him to shit...

I still say tobi er obito would beat goku if he had no knowledge of his Justu.

ROFL !!!!!!

Goku is so far above Tobi in reaction and movement speed it's not even funny. The second Tobi solidifies to use his dimension sucking Goku gets behind him and rips Tobi in half.

I still say tobi er obito would beat goku

Really? Really?

I know I did a spoof pred involving Goku, but seriously, Goku could destroy the entire Narutoverse in the matter of a couple of minutes.

I mean, we are talking about the character who pretty much every protagnoist in a martial arts manga has been based on since the late '80s.

Part I Naruto Vs. Young Obito

J-Man Vs. Mizukage(current)

bonus:
J-Man,Minato, Kakashi, & Naruto.

Vs.

Orochimaru,Kabuto, Anko, & Sasuke.

Edo Madara vs Kidd Buu

SS3 Goku vs Bijuu Mode Naruto

Edo Madara vs Kidd Buu

SS3 Goku vs Bijuu Mode Naruto

Even Edo Tensei cannot regenerate from intensive planetary destruction-like attacks. As for Ss3 Goku vs Rainbow Naruto do you even have to ask?

Even Edo Tensei cannot regenerate from intensive planetary destruction-like attacks. As for Ss3 Goku vs Rainbow Naruto do you even have to ask?

Edo Tensei is basically the same regenerative form that Cell and Buu possess. Even after being destroyed over and over again after destroying the planets Buu continued to live. Being that ET is a jutsu that is supposed to be taken out with the caster..leaves me to believe that Edo Madara could survive....he did survive freaking meteors being thrown upon himself. Alot of you guys are shitting on Naruto because of his sensitivity..the same and similar case in Goku. Goku can only hold SS3 for such a short time. Naruto's speed is if not up to par or exceeds Goku's. Strength they are even. Though Naruto has more techs and in my own mind he could def put up a serious battle and come out on top..Don't forget that both guys wouldn't do anything to destroy a world...if they were on fair ground and could cut loose obviously in the DBZ attacks could easily wipe out a world because the level of attacks are so ove rated...l kinda love that Kishi didn't go well I can do what Akira and Kubo is doing and just show whole pages with stars and shit getting ripped up..no Kishi dialed down the jutsu levels. Naruto's bijuudama and Goku's Kamahaha wave/Spirit bomb to me would be on equal terms of power...i don't see an easy victory for Goku...


Naruto in full Bijuu mode...Goku wouldn't have an answer for that...sorry Vishnu

Even Edo Tensei cannot regenerate from intensive planetary destruction-like attacks.

Madara and Muu would like to have a word with you.

Edo Madara vs Kidd Buu

SS3 Goku vs Bijuu Mode Naruto
That goes here (http://www.fandom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23043). Anyways, it's stupid. The dbz characters of course

That goes here (http://www.fandom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23043). Anyways, it's stupid. The dbz characters of course

I guess you wanted something to say this early AM SD....main reason I posted here...because I saw countless others using DBZ vs Naruto scenarios....and it being stupid...certainly your opinion...

Don't be a pretentious american fool.


Also, it is stupid. You can make up as many fallacious claims as you want, but it's still stupid.

all your opinion dude....don't be a douche esp starting the week out....

I am not being a douche, douche.


Edit: It's not my opinion. It's just your opinion that it's my opinion.

LOL dude I am not here to battle you or insult you....it sucks we can't enter a topic of discussion without folks trying to belittle or batter one another.

Edit: Dude whatever works for you...I am done....engaging in cyber arguments...just doesn't work for me

LOL dude I am not here to battle you or insult you....it sucks we can't enter a topic of discussion without folks trying to belittle or batter one another.

Yeah it sucks, it also sucks that you are being a hypocrite. Or are you trying to say that this had nothing to do with belittling "I guess you wanted something to say this early AM SD", how big or small,direct or indirect, the belittling may be in it?

http://www.fandom.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2120821#post2120821



http://www.fandom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203123&page=2

I just noticed what you said and yeah I hate hypocrites too

:) TTYL

Doesn't that mean you hate yourself? KYF would have a field day with that info.

I can understand why you would see that as being hypocritical, but I do don't view that way.

I see two reasons why the difference of views might occur.

1) You may think that my opinion is an absolute no double posting, none whatsoever. However it is not, I am against useless doubling posting, double posting without any reason to double post. Double posting with a reason why it should be separated is fine by me.

Examples:

If somebody posted something like "I'll be posting a prediction soon, so don't go anywhere" and then double posting a prediction in 15 minutes is acceptable in my book.

If there was a large gap in time between posts then I also view it as being acceptable (rule of thumb says 24 hours)

ACt's relatively recent multi posting in a chapter thread (was it there? was it ACt) was acceptable.

The clarification of my view (which may or may not have caused the difference in views) on double posting brings me to reason 2 for why there would be a difference in views:

2. You don't see a reason for why I double posted. This I completely understand, I doubt most members would "get it", and I doubted it when I posted.

The reason for that is that it is connected to something in the 600 chapter discussion thread, and herefore most people wouldn't (or couldn't) make the connection.

Here is the post (which was a double post) that it is connected to

I think the no double posting rule should be enforced (more).

Which of course had to do with what Miburo posted.



Now that we've cleared that up, you shouldn't really hate yourself, though if you do, you should use it as a driving force to improve yourself and become a better person.

Oh, yeah, double posting is bad.

Oh, yeah, double posting is bad.

Even through all this I did learn to use to edit button Hahaha lol...

It's not my opinion. It's just your opinion that it's my opinion.

Pay up, that phrase is copyrighted.

lol check your paypal! I sent payment!

Paypal says the transfer failed and to try again till it succeeds.

ahahahah well man a better exchange this morning...i actually laughed some...I stopped the payment through paypal...Expect payment from Nigeria, Africa.....seriously the check is in the mail.

Did you account for the mailing period and the 25% daily interest specified in the license when writing the check?

Did you account for the mailing period and the 25% daily interest specified in the license when writing the check?

LMAO! sorry chap, you should ask the Nigerian who more than likely will try to scam you!

Are you saying that I can't expect my due payment after you've used something I copyrighted? That is considered theft. Dont, worry, you can relax. I probably wont do anything about it. Though the authorities probably will after they arrive at where you are, which will happen shortly.

So, ummmm, take care and dont drop the soap!

Are you saying that I can't expect my due payment after you've used something I copyrighted? That is considered theft. Dont, worry, you can relax. I probably wont do anything about it. Though the authorities probably will after they arrive at where you are, which will happen shortly.

So, ummmm, take care and dont drop the soap!

hahaha this made me laugh.........

Heres a Mangekyou SG jutsu battle...

Living, Prime Madara/Perfect SASANOO: (The offensive barrier jutsu that takes on the form of the thunder god himself) Vs Tobito/(both)KAMUI: (The ultimate offensive and defensive jutsu there is...)

Sasanoo has many different level's but the ultimate version is madara's perfect sasanoo...
Offensively: Can use chakra weapons... swords to cut mountains into pieces and the mangatama (sp) necklace to throw as a long range attack...
Defensively:Its a barrier jutsu in the shape of the storm god sasanoo... it is just the most powerful barrier there is... there is nothing known that can get through perfect sasanoo's defense....

Meanwhile Kamui has three different version...

Version 1). Shifting parts of the body as well as the entire body and other things into the other dimension when the enemy attacks or the user wishes to move through any solid object...
Completely defensive...

Version 2). Creating a wormhole to completely transfer people and objects into the other dimension unlike version one that can do this, but leaves an illusion of the physical body or objects that were shifted...
Offensive:can transfer an enemy to the dimension leaving them to die, or the user so he can use the dimension to move to another place in the naruto dimension..... can even expel weapons and seals for attacks... or even create a vortex to increase a basic fire jutsu exponentially...
Defensive:can absorb attacks....

Version 3). mid to long range barrier jutsu that by Creating a barrier in space where ever the user focuses his eye then creating a whole by collapsing space itself on whatever happens to be in the way... drawing it into the hole, into the other dimension... However, this version has no way to get w/e is drawn into the dimension back out like version 2...
Offensive: Can sever anything, by collapsing space itself at a single point in space creating a hole...
Defensive: can draw in any attack by collapsing space at the point of the attack...

Well, IMO, the more powerful is obviously perfect sasanoo which is a huge barrier of materialized chakra from the user while kamui is time space manipulation...
However, by means of effectiveness and efficiency... I think Kamui takes it...

So if Madara attacks with sasanoo no matter how powerful it means nothing because kamui version 1 will just make the attack go right through him...
and because kamui version 3 can be used on w/e tobito focuses on... tobito could just attack madara inside his sasanoo completely bypassing it defenses...
Or tobito could simply use version 1 to get inside sasanoo then use version 2 to draw madara into his dimension to live just long enough to regret taking on tobito, the monster of his creation...

Either way, I think Kamui is the better jutsu which would allow tobito to beat the top uchiha and perhaps top shinobi since the sage himself (do not give me that "hashirama beat madara" crap because he alone did not... He and his wife beat madara who was just trying to gain hashirama's power... SO if hashirama is so strong then why would he need his wife's help in a fight he can handle himself???)

Heres a Mangekyou SG jutsu battle...

Living, Prime Madara/Perfect SASANOO: (The offensive barrier jutsu that takes on the form of the thunder god himself) Vs Tobito/(both)KAMUI: (The ultimate offensive and defensive jutsu there is...)

Sasanoo has many different level's but the ultimate version is madara's perfect sasanoo...
Offensively: Can use chakra weapons... swords to cut mountains into pieces and the mangatama (sp) necklace to throw as a long range attack...
Defensively:Its a barrier jutsu in the shape of the storm god sasanoo... it is just the most powerful barrier there is... there is nothing known that can get through perfect sasanoo's defense....

Meanwhile Kamui has three different version...

Version 1). Shifting parts of the body as well as the entire body and other things into the other dimension when the enemy attacks or the user wishes to move through any solid object...
Completely defensive...

Version 2). Creating a wormhole to completely transfer people and objects into the other dimension unlike version one that can do this, but leaves an illusion of the physical body or objects that were shifted...
Offensive:can transfer an enemy to the dimension leaving them to die, or the user so he can use the dimension to move to another place in the naruto dimension..... can even expel weapons and seals for attacks... or even create a vortex to increase a basic fire jutsu exponentially...
Defensive:can absorb attacks....

Version 3). mid to long range barrier jutsu that by Creating a barrier in space where ever the user focuses his eye then creating a whole by collapsing space itself on whatever happens to be in the way... drawing it into the hole, into the other dimension... However, this version has no way to get w/e is drawn into the dimension back out like version 2...
Offensive: Can sever anything, by collapsing space itself at a single point in space creating a hole...
Defensive: can draw in any attack by collapsing space at the point of the attack...

Well, IMO, the more powerful is obviously perfect sasanoo which is a huge barrier of materialized chakra from the user while kamui is time space manipulation...
However, by means of effectiveness and efficiency... I think Kamui takes it...

So if Madara attacks with sasanoo no matter how powerful it means nothing because kamui version 1 will just make the attack go right through him...
and because kamui version 3 can be used on w/e tobito focuses on... tobito could just attack madara inside his sasanoo completely bypassing it defenses...
Or tobito could simply use version 1 to get inside sasanoo then use version 2 to draw madara into his dimension to live just long enough to regret taking on tobito, the monster of his creation...

Either way, I think Kamui is the better jutsu which would allow tobito to beat the top uchiha and perhaps top shinobi since the sage himself (do not give me that "hashirama beat madara" crap because he alone did not... He and his wife beat madara who was just trying to gain hashirama's power... SO if hashirama is so strong then why would he need his wife's help in a fight he can handle himself???)

Yeah i agree on this. Kamui is more effective than Susano'o. But you also have to consider the timelimit on Kamui. That could be the weakness of the jutsu.

Also about Hashirama and Madara. I think that Mito was there only to have the Kyuubi sealed inside her. I don't think that she assissted in the battle.

Im having this argument with some other person on another forum about who was the strongest hokage, hashirama or Hiruzen. His only argument is Hiruzen's nickname of God of Shinobi and an off comment Iruka made in part 1 about him being the strongest. My argument is where that may have been true years ago, kishi has changed alot particularly Hashirama and almost given him god status. What do you guys think?

Tell him feats or GTFO.

Madara's mokuton techs can be extended to Hashirama since they are essentially made possible by his genes. That giant forest jutsu that saturates the area with sleeping gas is by itself better than anything Hiruzen did offensively.

Madara(alive), Itachi(alive), and current Sasuke.
VS.
Hashirama,Minato, and J-Man.

Bonus:

Naruto(all abilities)
Vs.
Minato,J-man

-Blindfold match-
(meaning: no knowledge of their connection; relationship does not sway their efforts)

Tell him feats or GTFO.

Madara's mokuton techs can be extended to Hashirama since they are essentially made possible by his genes. That giant forest jutsu that saturates the area with sleeping gas is by itself better than anything Hiruzen did offensively.

now he keeps saying Hiruzen beat a prime shodai and niidai. Completely ignoring the fact that they were basically bodyguards and mindless. Im done with that argument.

now he keeps saying Hiruzen beat a prime shodai and niidai. Completely ignoring the fact that they were basically bodyguards and mindless. Im done with that argument.

Whomever puts ANYBODY in Harashirmas neighborhood is a fucking clown. The 1st could basically instant heal like Ichigo, faster and better than Tsunade. I don't think Madara is using the dumb assed Wood Dragon as well as Hara, by this time Madara had got Kyuubs ganked from him while Naruto is still kicking it. Top that with this icing, Hiruzen didn't do much of shit vs. Kyuubs at Narutos birth, and he died to fucking Oro... How would the snake fare vs. Hara? SKEWERED TO DEATH A THOUSAND TIMES OVER.

I am also for seeing Chouji get crushed by the Hulk, wings gone within 30 seconds.

Madara(alive), Itachi(alive), and current Sasuke.
VS.
Hashirama,Minato, and J-Man.

Bonus:

Naruto(all abilities)
Vs.
Minato,J-man

-Blindfold match-
(meaning: no knowledge of their connection; relationship does not sway their efforts)

Marara Itachi and Sasuke wouydl mop the floor with Hashirama Minato and Jiraiya Madaras perfect susanoo cuts through mountains J-man is dead, Itachi can stop Hashirama with Genjutsu and nullify his wood techs with Amaterasu and Sasuke fights Minato until Madara comes to finish him off..lol

and Naruto looses to J-man and minato not because of lack of power but because he's a moron and he's dealiong with a genius .. J-man stands back and watches and yells from far off "hey Minato I left and came back with some of kushina's cookies" Minato. cookies you say" warps- Damn these are good telleports while munching on cookie and hits naruto in the face with rasengan

Itachi can stop Hashirama with Genjutsu and nullify his wood techs with Amaterasu

I agree with everything in your post except the statement above. The reason I don't agree with it is because we still don't know EXACTLY what Shodaime was capable of doing. If he's fought Madara's multiple times in the past (and able to hold his own), then it's safe to assume he knows how to deal with the Mangekyou Sharingan and some genjutsu attacks (meaning Itachi most likely won't get the chance to use genjutsu on him).

I agree with everything in your post except the statement above. The reason I don't agree with it is because we still don't know EXACTLY what Shodaime was capable of doing. If he's fought Madara's multiple times in the past (and able to hold his own), then it's safe to assume he knows how to deal with the Mangekyou Sharingan and some genjutsu attacks (meaning Itachi most likely won't get the chance to use genjutsu on him).

But madara's ability with genjutsu is not top notch like itachi's.. Madara's more of a ninjutsu style shinobi like sasuke... But itachi has shown his ability with genjutsu is top notch and beyond any other then Shisui uchiha himself...
So what HM said is very likely...

Minato, hashirama and Jman Vs Madara, Itachi and sasuke....

IMO, Itachi would fight Jman, while hashirama fights madara and sasuke fights minato... itachi was able to beat Oro in mere seconds so could do the same to Jman who is already weak against ninjutsu... Sasuke will be wrapped in sasanoo to keep from being blitzed with the FTG...
Now though that Jman is beaten, itachi teams up with sasuke to fight minato... Minato makes the mistake of coming in contact with itachi which allows him to set up Izanami so once minato attacks again, he is caught...

But because of the person minato is, he will not be held by Izanami for very long... Leaving the three top uchiha to fight hashirama alone... Hashirama is overwhelm and loses while minaot snaps out of Izanami realizing how to break out by accepting his true self and power...

Minato realizing he is alone is smart and escapes using the FTG and lives to fight another day... Team Uchiha win...

Next: Naruto vs Minato and Jman... nobody knows each other...

Naruto uses his kyuubi power which lets minato know he uses a jink seal, by coincidence, it is a seal of his own creation... Minato uses his speed and seal skills to nunbalance the seal on naruto by placing an extra seal to stop the use of the kyuubi's power and unbalance all of naruto's chakra...
Now naruto cannot even use SM and loses easliy to only minato.... Jman was too busy perving on chicks....

Marara Itachi and Sasuke wouydl mop the floor with Hashirama Minato and Jiraiya Madaras perfect susanoo cuts through mountains J-man is dead, Itachi can stop Hashirama with Genjutsu and nullify his wood techs with Amaterasu and Sasuke fights Minato until Madara comes to finish him off..lol

and Naruto looses to J-man and minato not because of lack of power but because he's a moron and he's dealiong with a genius .. J-man stands back and watches and yells from far off "hey Minato I left and came back with some of kushina's cookies" Minato. cookies you say" warps- Damn these are good telleports while munching on cookie and hits naruto in the face with rasengan

Keep in ind Both Madara and Itachi are teh living versions NOT EDO.

So no Senju DNA or endless chakra. Vision and illness are still a factor.
#1. Madara has admitted Hashi was the only one that can beat him. Nuff Said.

#2. Itachi has already admitted J-man's power, keep in mind the Sanin were the most powerful in the village for generations. Obvious Kage choices, remember, except Oro.

#3. Minato wouldn't allow an Uchiha too gain any Genjutsu advantage. Sasuke isn't used to someone being that fast and smart.

Keep in mind all three of these Ninja are well educated on Uchiha. Hashi has fought and defeated the most sinister and powerful before. J-man had full knowledge of Itachi's capabilities but showed no fear in fighting him and Kisame at the same time. Where Kakashi in Part I rather not fight Itachi at all. Minato was a genius he was considered the best in the village Uchiha clan included.


Naruto versus the father and Godfather.

Yeah he would lose because they would both figure he is Uber powerful and they should end it quick.

I just don't think it would be so easy. He has Mastered Sage mode and Kurama mode. Naruto is an excellent tactician, even better when he is fighting solo.

RESULTS:

1st fight Hashi.
2nd fight draw OR J-man, due to the blindness of Itachi.
3rd fight Minato.

Keep in ind Both Madara and Itachi are teh living versions NOT EDO.

So no Senju DNA or endless chakra. Vision and illness are still a factor.
#1. Madara has admitted Hashi was the only one that can beat him. Nuff Said.

#2. Itachi has already admitted J-man's power, keep in mind the Sanin were the most powerful in the village for generations. Obvious Kage choices, remember, except Oro.

#3. Minato wouldn't allow an Uchiha too gain any Genjutsu advantage. Sasuke isn't used to someone being that fast and smart.

Keep in mind all three of these Ninja are well educated on Uchiha. Hashi has fought and defeated the most sinister and powerful before. J-man had full knowledge of Itachi's capabilities but showed no fear in fighting him and Kisame at the same time. Where Kakashi in Part I rather not fight Itachi at all. Minato was a genius he was considered the best in the village Uchiha clan included.


Naruto versus the father and Godfather.

Yeah he would lose because they would both figure he is Uber powerful and they should end it quick.

I just don't think it would be so easy. He has Mastered Sage mode and Kurama mode. Naruto is an excellent tactician, even better when he is fighting solo.

RESULTS:

1st fight Hashi.
2nd fight draw OR J-man, due to the blindness of Itachi.
3rd fight Minato.

#1). Madara admitted hashirama is the only that COULD beat him, but clearly could not despite his chance... The reason Madara has an edge of beating hashirama in a real fight to the death with no other objective then the annihilation of the enemy is because madara fought Hashirama to only gain DNA of his, but even with mito uzumaki's assistance by sealing away his bijuu nuke...
Yet hashirama with madara not trying to kill him and assistance from his wife, madara was still only wounded... And madara has clearly never used perfect sasanoo on hashirama because he said once perfect sasanoo is used, it is certain death... That would not be the case if hashirama survived many altercations with perfect sasanoo...
Clearly hashirama vs perfect sasanoo madara is a whole other story seeing as how hashirama neede dhis wife's help tp stop kurama, but perfect sasanoo surpasses the bijuu so what will hashirama do against perfect sasanoo without his wife's help if he could not even stop the kyuubi on his own???

Hashirama is overrated as usual... Madara uses perfect sasanoo to overwhelm hashirama and win...

#2). Jman v Itachi... It is not even a match... Jman is so weak against genjutsu and itachi was able to beat Oro in mere seconds... meanwhile JMan has been trying to stop Oro half his life...
Jman just has no way to avoid amaterasu, stop tsukuyomi that can leave him comatose in an INSTANT or stop itachi's super sasanoo with spiritual equipment... Much less a Kage bushin, karasu bushin combo with his jutsu and physical speed...
Even in SM Jman has to rely on frog's to gather his Natural energy meaning itachi could control either with genjutsu to disrupt that...

You cannot rely on itachi's comment about Jman being a match that would cost his life if they fought... Itachi was a double agent who was working for konaha and thus would never want to harm one of his own allies so itachi bluffed to kisame about Jman's power... Itachi has proven time and time again that he is beyond seenin level... Being able to beat Oro and Deidara in mere seconds... Even beating kakashi while tyring not to hurt him and kakashi was able to compete with kakuzu and his immortal buddy at once...

Itachi is just on another level from Jman and the rest of the seenin... Just look at what itachi did to kabuto, the one who surpassed Oro... He basically soloed him while protecting sasuke and trying not to kill kabuto...
Itachi is just too much for anyone other then shinobi of madara, hashirama, full kyuubi naruto, EMS sasuke, obito and nagato's level

#3). Sasuke Vs Minato...
Sasuke knows of minato's reputation with speed... With the SG, Sasuke will be able to read enough of minato's movements to pull up sasanoo to keep from being blizted by the FTG... And with sasanoo up, likely perfect sasanoo if he can power it up to it's perfect form... Minato has no way to get inside sasanoo... So sasuke's best chance is to use Izanami by making physical contact or waiting for itachi to fight with him so he can use Izanami to stop Minato so he can be hit with a physical attack or tsukuyomi...

Either way, team uchiha Win... minato is their best chance though because he could FTG jman or hashirama to for combo attacks... But, with so many sasanoo's... The speed advantage is just nullified.... as well as the power advantage due to the super defense of sasanoo... So they are left with physical attacks they cannot land thus lose this match..

Marara Itachi and Sasuke wouydl mop the floor with Hashirama Minato and Jiraiya Madaras perfect susanoo cuts through mountains J-man is dead, Itachi can stop Hashirama with Genjutsu and nullify his wood techs with Amaterasu and Sasuke fights Minato until Madara comes to finish him off..lol

and Naruto looses to J-man and minato not because of lack of power but because he's a moron and he's dealiong with a genius .. J-man stands back and watches and yells from far off "hey Minato I left and came back with some of kushina's cookies" Minato. cookies you say" warps- Damn these are good telleports while munching on cookie and hits naruto in the face with rasengan

No walk in the park, this would be a helluva epic battle. I wished those combos were available in the Naruto game for XBox 360, me and my Son would never get off.

Harashirma's healing factor, Wood Dragon Summons (to supress Naruto, on his own he woulda been toast, KB and others assisted), sheer power, and most of his shits unknown, just the major stuff. Nobody knows what weapon he was proficient in, what additional jutsu's he knew (hell Tsunade has a lightening jutsu, who woulda thunk of that, so who knows). I don't think until the whole battle is shown (and its been hinted to so long Kishi has to show it eventually), no one has a clue of the entirety of Harashirma, and not overhyping the Dude. Nobody expected Madara to be as Gangsta, have tha ability to unlock Edo to go Legendary, or the mere thought of Perfect Susannoo, prior to him unleashing that, along with meteors, and a weapon that can repel Uber Rasengens, and though he didn't have all of this stuff, he had some... and lost in a 1 on 1, hell he said Hara was Boss.

Minato's speed, and sealing techs were boss as well and he was thrust into a situation where he was attempting to save entirely too much, the village, Naruto, Kushina, all at the same time whilst being attacked by Obito. So IMHO he never showed his full capabilities and 'went all out' prior to his death, I mean besides getting gutted by Kyuubs (and why Naruto's not pissed about that plus Kushina, is curious), with Kushina, I never heard of a battle 'taking him to the edge' with ANY single, enemy during his life.

Jiraya, as much as I dig him would easily be the weakest link in the group and could easily cause the death of Minato during the battle. Honestly, as powerful as he is, he's simply outclassed by speed of Uchiha's which IMHO is greater than all Peins paths period, all of them. He has some nice techs that would be able to keep him alive for a while, but nothing he has can even touch any of the Uchihas if they want to hang out within Susanno.

Sasuke on the other team would be the weakest link, from an experience standpoint. In some way's his techs' Amaretsu based are much more than any other Uchiha I've seen, Madara included, but Itach's Genjutsu and Madara's step up to Rinnengan at will are better than anything in those areas Sasuke could produce. I could see him killing Jiraiya though. I gotta say, in the battle vs. Kabuto sage mode, Kishi shit on Sasuke. He was a sitting duck repeatedly needing saving, from a Dude that used to be like the butler to him at Oro's Hideout. I understand sage mode shit blah blah, but c'mon, without Itachi, Sasuke woulda got dented, a freaking EMS USER??

Itachi, and Madara are the X factors here, the only answer to them is Harashirma.

Now the question becomes, does Minato also perish while attempting to save Jiraiya from Sasuke. Madara and Hara would be doing they're own thing away from others because they would damage them going full out... If Itachi (who'd additionally have to protect Sasuke from J-Man some) is able to assist Sasuke in offing J, then the 3 would eventually be able to overtake either a wounded Minato, but he would rid the earth of Sasuke before he went. Now were left with a near exhausted Itachi to assist Madara finishing off Harashirma. Thats my take, besides Madara, and Obito I've dug most of the Uchihas so I am biased, but honest in my opinion on the descripts on the characters.

Sasuke on the other team would be the weakest link, from an experience standpoint. In some way's his techs' Amaterasu based are much more than any other Uchiha I've seen, Madara included, but Itachi's genjutsu and Madara's step up to Rinnengan at will are better than anything in those areas Sasuke could produce. I could see him killing Jiraiya though. I gotta say, in the battle vs. Kabuto sage mode, Kishi shit on Sasuke. He was a sitting duck repeatedly needing saving, from a Dude that used to be like the butler to him at Oro's Hideout. I understand sage mode shit blah blah, but c'mon, without Itachi, Sasuke woulda got dented, a freaking EMS USER??

Itachi, and Madara are the X factors here, the only answer to them is Harashirma.

Now the question becomes, does Minato also perish while attempting to save Jiraiya from Sasuke. Madara and Hara would be doing they're own thing away from others because they would damage them going full out... If Itachi (who'd additionally have to protect Sasuke from J-Man some) is able to assist Sasuke in offing J, then the 3 would eventually be able to overtake either a wounded Minato, but he would rid the earth of Sasuke before he went. Now were left with a near exhausted Itachi to assist Madara finishing off Harashirma. Thats my take, besides Madara, and Obito I've dug most of the Uchihas so I am biased, but honest in my opinion on the descripts on the characters.

Yea Sasuke was totally shitted on in that battle. with all his offing of Orochimaru and him surviving the Kage's assaut and killing Danzo.. Sasuke was useless in that whole fight!!

Hashirama is definitely a factor but lets not sell J-man short. Itachi fleed from Jiraiya. I think Itachi knew about sage mode and didn't wanna face that shit. Knowing how much danger sage mode has is probably why Itachi didn't let Sasuke fight much in the cave. Furthermore with Hashirama going into wood sage mode on Madara IMO Uchiha might be at a disadvantage when going up against sage mode for some reason!!

Itachi and Madara would be a major team to beat. Itachi would be at a disadvantage but I can see Itachi and Madara binding Hashirama and then Itachi putting the First in a Tsukyomi.

Yea Sasuke was totally shitted on in that battle. with all his offing of Orochimaru and him surviving the Kage's assaut and killing Danzo.. Sasuke was useless in that whole fight!!
Sasuke only defeated Oro because he ambushed him while Oro was on his death bed. Itachi was also outclassed by Kabuto in that fight. Had Kabuto fought ether one in a one vs one he'd had beaten both. Hell the only reason Kabuto even lost was because of a Deus EX Machina bullshit called Izanami.

Sasuke only defeated Oro because he ambushed him while Oro was on his death bed. Itachi was also outclassed by Kabuto in that fight. Had Kabuto fought ether one in a one vs one he'd had beaten both. Hell the only reason Kabuto even lost was because of a Deus EX Machina bullshit called Izanami.

I'd call bull on Itachi being outclassed. Sasuke didn't have any fetters in that fight, but Itachi had to keep Kabuto alive based on his objective. He easily had the means to kill Kabuto; beating him while still being able to release the Edo Tensei was more the issue.

I'd call bull on Itachi being outclassed. Sasuke didn't have any fetters in that fight, but Itachi had to keep Kabuto alive based on his objective. He easily had the means to kill Kabuto; beating him while still being able to release the Edo Tensei was more the issue.

I agree, he was on a Minato save Kushina, Naruto, and the Leaf Village, all at the same time whilst fighting the enemy. He's intention wasn't to 'kill' Kabuto, thats why he wanted both him and Sasuke to use Ameratsu sparingly... it would've ended the shit, at least Sasuke's version mixed with anger boiled over.

I'd call bull on Itachi being outclassed. Sasuke didn't have any fetters in that fight, but Itachi had to keep Kabuto alive based on his objective. He easily had the means to kill Kabuto; beating him while still being able to release the Edo Tensei was more the issue.
Bull Itachi has no answer for Kabuto's genjutsu. Fight would have ended the moment Kabuto used it.

http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/8/60-585.0/compressed/b009.jpg?v=11336564624

Itachi was fighting to let kabuti live lol @ outclasses but to each his own. Had he fought with intent to kill kabuti would 't have survived long enough to do shit.


Not to mention itachi was letting himself open for attacks knowing he's unkillable.

With all this talk going around about hashirama.

What about hashirama vs the 3rd raikage.

Itachi was an Edo Golem with a partner (Sasuke) & had Dues Ex Machina hax(Izanami). In a straight up fight with both of them still alive Kabuto would own him. Kabuto was fast enough to dodge Sasuke's arrow, is immune to sharingan genjutsu, can easily escape Amaterasu, & can be-power Susanoo. Itachi wouldn't stand a chance it's just that simple.

PS: Kabuto wasn't trying to kill them ether. He wanted to regain control of Itachi & take Sasuke's body.

PPS: Kabuto dealt Itachi blows that would have been fatal had he not been an Edo Golem.

With all this talk going around about hashirama.

What about hashirama vs the 3rd raikage.
Hashirama would own anyone in the manga until proven otherwise.

Itachi was an Edo Golem with a partner (Sasuke) & had Dues Ex Machina hax(Izanami). In a straight up fight with both of them still alive Kabuto would own him. Kabuto was fast enough to dodge Sasuke's arrow, is immune to sharingan genjutsu, can easily escape Amaterasu, & can be-power Susanoo. Itachi wouldn't stand a chance it's just that simple.

PS: Kabuto wasn't trying to kill them ether. He wanted to regain control of Itachi & take Sasuke's body.

PPS: Kabuto dealt Itachi blows that would have been fatal had he not been an Edo Golem.


Hashirama would own anyone in the manga until proven otherwise.

I won't argue on itachi bs kabuto you're to hard headed as am I so I stay away from debating you on subjects i know we won't agree on past experiences teach you good things lol.

You think hashirama would own a guy who owned the 8 tails by himself and came to a stalemate? Hmm idk hashirama hasn't really shown anything that can get through that barrier.

Hmm idk hashirama hasn't really shown anything that can get through that barrier.

Hashi would summon ole 1,000 hand buddha-bitch and pimp slap everyone to death!

i think hashirama would completely own the third raikage the knockout pollen would finish him fast

i think hashirama would completely own the third raikage the knockout pollen would finish him fast

i forgot about that however its not a sure victory if it was hed use it on madara before this buddah thing.

i forgot about that however its not a sure victory if it was hed use it on madara before this buddah thing.

It would depend on to what level Kishi decides to allow to have the physical characteristics apply in the Narutoverse.

The pollen jutsu wouldn't work with Madara, because he would burn it away. If Kishi were to allow the lightning element it's heat property to basically cook the pollen to ineffectiveness, then it wouldn't work with the Raikages.

But if size comparisons are to be considered accurate, the buddha bitch makes the juubi seem like a ragdoll/plaything. Buddha bitch trumps everything so far.

Itachi was an Edo Golem with a partner (Sasuke) & had Dues Ex Machina hax(Izanami). In a straight up fight with both of them still alive Kabuto would own him. Kabuto was fast enough to dodge Sasuke's arrow, is immune to sharingan genjutsu, can easily escape Amaterasu, & can be-power Susanoo. Itachi wouldn't stand a chance it's just that simple.

PS: Kabuto wasn't trying to kill them ether. He wanted to regain control of Itachi & take Sasuke's body.

PPS: Kabuto dealt Itachi blows that would have been fatal had he not been an Edo Golem.


Hashirama would own anyone in the manga until proven otherwise.

Lol, Itachi could easily own Kbuto even as a dragon sage..

: Itachi was forced to fight to capture...

: Itachi was forced to protect sasuke multiple times...

: Itachi even was trying to enlighten kabuto to the error of his ways, using others powers as his own.

Kabuto was actually attacking itachi with everything he had to fatally injure his body. And Kabuto was not holding anything back at all...

Itachi had to hold back and even force sasuke too as well... Otherwise a simple amaterasu would have ended kabuto. And that Genjutsu you say Uchiha itachi, a genjutsu god cannot get past. Was already beaten by SHikamaru by causing himself pain. Meaning it can be beaten by interrupting his chakra and nervous system...

Basically, the fight was Itachi, protecting sasuke who also could not kill kabuto thus forced to severely hold back and still could not use basic Genjutsu. Meaning Tsukuyomi would not work, but Susanoo and amaterasu could not be used properly to kill kabuto due to itachi's strategy to not only beat kabuto, but end edo tensai...

And complaining about Izanami, when it was destined to be an ability of the uchiha ever since Izanagi was introduced. As opposed to complaining about Kabuto's Hax ass abilities...

: Hermit technique Hakugeki that paralyzes the enemy through sound and light, but the user can still move around...
: Hermit technique Inorganic Transmigration that allows kabuto to control anything as if it was connected to him. A jutsu on par with the RG...
: Sound 5 creation to create and use either of their abilities as his own.

All beyond what a Sage should be capable of, but kabuto was so many shinobi in one while itachi was just an uchiha. Yet, you still complain because he had an ability to defeat kabuto and his weakness of Edo Tensai.


EDIT: ANd Hashirama CANNOT Beat Obito, Much less Minato... Claiming hashirama can beat ANYONE simply because he can summon a buddha is Obviously a preference filtered misinterpretation.
Basically, you are basing your conclusion of preference and not on Logic and feats. I mena, how exactly could hashirama even hit Obito or MInato much defend against their Time space attacks?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjSk9krYg5U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjSk9krYg5U

God I would love to see Family Guy do a Naruto-based episode.