PDA

View Full Version : VS Thread [With Manga Spoilers!]


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43

JustPimpin
05-18-2007, 07:49 PM
Anything goes in this VS Thread! Talk about any fights up until the last manga chapter!

Kisame VS Nidaime

I'm going with Kisame on this one. I mean come on, he resembles a shark! He carries around a sword that chews up chakra. He has massive amounts of Chakra of his own, and he has tsunade-like strength!

OG EDIT:
replies such as
"naruto has kyuubi of course he will win"
or
"itachi pwns all so itachi wins"
or
"jiraiya=orochimaru<itachi so itachi wins"
will be deleted, and if you repost it or repeat the SAME response on the discussions of other fights, you will get infractions as they will be considered spam.

this is a thread to sort out and discuss fights, so please have some facts to back up what you say

MikeyM1979
05-19-2007, 04:14 AM
Please don't double post, and this thread should be closed? There's already a VS Thread.
The other versus thread is in the Series section, or Anime section, I think. This is the first and only one in the manga section, where spoilers are allowed. I don't think it'll be closed since it's been stickied. Besides, read this: http://www.narutolounge.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1106165&postcount=1323

Umm, that was the Second Hokage vs Kisame? If so, I say Kisame wins. Not by much, though.

Rasenshuriken
05-19-2007, 08:27 AM
are youoseriouse i say nidamie his darkness jutsu alone will own kisame if jiraiya could beat kisame the 2nd could def beat him plus the hell with his sword dont for get about hidaime has that lighting rod that was indestructible until naruto broke it he will fry that water freak with the rod and his darkness jutsu is enopugh. sorry shark loser but nidaime takes this one easily.

Antedeluvian
05-19-2007, 08:33 AM
so we post here from now on?Fine by me.Anyways the 2nd hokage(don't like the japan. name)was pretty powerfull about the total darkness i saw it on the anime i started reading manga after the battle with sasuke vs naruto.So this was why i beleved he will pawn kisame.Now since he doesn't have this tecnhinque i can't say him that easy.Both must have crazy charka supply cause being a hokage means u are very strong.Also kisame has brute power the 2rn must be faster.About kisame's sword well ok it is badass but i don't think it will really trouble a hokage.At last i also say 2nd eventhough almost all aka members are hogake lvl.

ChojiMullet
05-19-2007, 12:03 PM
I think that the fight would go to the 2nd hokage because we have never seen Kisame fight anyone that would catch him in genjutsu. I think this might give him trouble. Also I think that neither could surprise the other with any water jutsu.

JustPimpin
05-19-2007, 12:07 PM
i'm sure if nidaime used that darkness technique, kisame would have the advantage. remember when zabuza used that mist technique on kakashi, and kakashi couldn't see anything at all, and zabuza said he can sense where kakashi's was at.... well i'm sure kisame being from the same clan as zabuza(and 20x stronger than zabuza) would have a way to find nidiame in the darkness. i think it wouls be a GREAT battle, but i'm still going with Kisame on this one!

EJ
05-19-2007, 12:10 PM
don't double post and this thread will not be closed since OG stated the fact that manga ppl go here

and doesn't Nidaime have a sword as well, that sword that guy stole that Sasuke and Naruto broke

I say Nidaime wins

Rasenshuriken
05-19-2007, 12:17 PM
i'm sure if nidaime used that darkness technique, kisame would have the advantage. remember when zabuza used that mist technique on kakashi, and kakashi couldn't see anything at all, and zabuza said he can sense where kakashi's was at.... well i'm sure kisame being from the same clan as zabuza(and 20x stronger than zabuza) would have a way to find nidiame in the darkness. i think it wouls be a GREAT battle, but i'm still going with Kisame on this one!

first off kisame isnt from the same clan dont know who told you that maybe you mean they were both from the kanta which are 7 swordsman of the mist it isnt a clan its like the sannin they are a group of ninja who are the best in that village. anyway zabuza had a talent of silent kill he was an expert in the art of silent murder kisame isnt like that or he would have done the mist jutsu on gai when they were fighting. kisame isnt no match for jiraiya what makes you ppl think he is stronger than a hokage kisame would fight good but lose his life quicker than you think. plus remember nidame ised kinjutsu for his art of fighting wchich is forbidden jutsu that must mean he has a hell of a chakra supply if he used such high class jutsu plus like the anbu stated he used a s rank jutsu in a place that had no water its his talent he excelled at water jutsu plus his lighting rod that aoi stole could fry kisame alone so nidaime has the win in this one.

kidmac1
05-19-2007, 12:18 PM
I think the 2nd Hokage has around the same amount of Chakra Kisame, because you have to have a massive amount of chakra to do water jutsu without water.

Antedeluvian
05-19-2007, 03:42 PM
evough with this 1 i say a new 1.Yamato vs Kabuto
I say Yamato but not as an easy victory,it was stated in pre time skip kabuto was about the same with kakashi.On the other hand yamato has the 1st dna and he is an anbu pretty good i guess.I can't decide easy who can won but i have a feeling yamato is more powerfull that we have seen so far this also goes for kabuto.

Rasenshuriken
05-19-2007, 03:51 PM
evough with this 1 i say a new 1.Yamato vs Kabuto
I say Yamato but not as an easy victory,it was stated in pre time skip kabuto was about the same with kakashi.On the other hand yamato has the 1st dna and he is an anbu pretty good i guess.I can't decide easy who can won but i have a feeling yamato is more powerfull that we have seen so far this also goes for kabuto.

he was as good as kakashi before and he still would have gotten his ass handed to him they meant experience wise kakashi would have beaten him easily.

as for yamato yes he will beat kabuto not easily but will.

kidmac1
05-19-2007, 04:25 PM
I wouldn't say kabuto was as good as Kakashi but almost as good sounds better. But now he probably as good as Kakashi. I think Yamato would after a long fight because of Kabuto's self healing jutsu. :D

P.S I think Kakashi would win against Yamato for two reasons Yamato calls him sampia(forget how to spell it)and the Sharingan. :D

Tengu
05-19-2007, 04:26 PM
I don't think alll 7th swordsmen have all same technique but till now we saw
2 of them doing that mist. kisame has huge amount of chakra so does
the 2nd hokage
and i say 2nd owns kisame.

ChojiMullet
05-19-2007, 06:45 PM
I got to go with Yamoto due to his mix of midrange and Close range jutsu. I think that on tyjutsu Kabuto would have an edge but I think that with all that Water, earth and wood jutsu that Kabuto would be out matched.

Tengu
05-20-2007, 12:08 AM
about yamato vs. kabuto id say kabuto since kabuto=kakashi>yamato

Naruto.Haruno
05-20-2007, 01:28 AM
Kabuto never beat Kakashi.
So I say Yamato.

Rasenshuriken
05-20-2007, 10:22 AM
kabuto cant beat kakashi are you serious yamato could kick kabuto's ass as well.


now forget this to add to this neji vs. sasuke

Kaine
05-20-2007, 10:24 AM
i say kabuto he is more mysterious from the wood boy.Being oro's apprentice must be something i guess.

OG
05-21-2007, 12:22 AM
for the record i approved of this thread, thus it is stickied >.>

yamato vs kabuto eh?
this is a tough call, yamato looks up to yamato and kabuto is said to be equal to kakashi so you can conclude that kabuto is the winner from that

however like any battle, it can change depending on different factors....

i dont think we have seen the full extent of either of them to determine what they are capable of so i go undecided on this one

Silverblade
05-21-2007, 01:26 AM
Yamato > Kabuto....

Pfft... The psycho doctor who can cut people from the inside by touching their skin or the guy that create trees and waterfalls... hmm i say Yamato would pwn Kabuto since he can manipulate earth and water that makes wood and has a avantage since he can do close range and long range attacks.. except kabuto has to get close and then yamato can easily catch him off guard with his woodclone..

Kaine
05-21-2007, 07:50 AM
we haven't seen their full power,yamato hasn't done anything special so far and he didn't actually attacked sasuke so we can't conlude somthing from that.But neither kabuto did so far he didn't want to kill tsunade so although he was rough he didn't went wild on her.I still say kabuto jiraiya said in part 1 he was equall to kakashi so since it is obvious kakashi>yamato so i will stick to kabuto

Rasenshuriken
05-21-2007, 09:03 AM
that was back in part one kakashi has since gained more speed somthing kabuto lacks and the mks including the regular sharingan one rakiri and kabuto is as good as dead. yamato is to stronger than him you ppl gotta realize that kabuto didnt get stronger over the timeskip since all his time was being the personal bitch or oro and sasuke. kakashi actually trained and got somthing only 2 other uchihas had or have the mks.

also yamato inherited the 1st hokage genes which means he has most if not all his jutsu and he is a long range/shrot range fighter. that is the worst kind of match up for kabuto since he uses medical ninjutsu to fight he has to get up close but,if he does that he is risking getting hit by yamato's jutsu plus dont forget yamato could control 2 elements and like i said has the 1st hokages jutsu so ye yamato would beat kabuto.

also you ppl have to analize the facts before you post i mean im reading all your posts and all of you seem to say "uhh kabuto is as strong as kakashi" saying that means nothing since kakashi actually got much stronger than part 1 and kabuto stayed the same in my eyes since he dedicates all his time to helping oro and sasuke what could he do nothing no training.

Kaine
05-21-2007, 11:39 AM
that was back in part one kakashi has since gained more speed somthing kabuto lacks and the mks including the regular sharingan one rakiri and kabuto is as good as dead. yamato is to stronger than him you ppl gotta realize that kabuto didnt get stronger over the timeskip since all his time was being the personal bitch or oro and sasuke. kakashi actually trained and got somthing only 2 other uchihas had or have the mks.

also yamato inherited the 1st hokage genes which means he has most if not all his jutsu and he is a long range/shrot range fighter. that is the worst kind of match up for kabuto since he uses medical ninjutsu to fight he has to get up close but,if he does that he is risking getting hit by yamato's jutsu plus dont forget yamato could control 2 elements and like i said has the 1st hokages jutsu so ye yamato would beat kabuto.

also you ppl have to analize the facts before you post i mean im reading all your posts and all of you seem to say "uhh kabuto is as strong as kakashi" saying that means nothing since kakashi actually got much stronger than part 1 and kabuto stayed the same in my eyes since he dedicates all his time to helping oro and sasuke what could he do nothing no training.

first of all no1 said kabuto can beat kakashi now.Also how do u know if kabuto hasn't improved u have nothing to put as evidence that he didn't improved,as for being oro's bitch so what?(i also doupt he was the bitch of sasuke).Yamato may have the dna of the 1rst but it was stated that his jutsu are far(tons)lower effect than the 1rst.About the last part this is a big assumption that he only helped oro and nothing more.Even if he did he has grown stronger to provide oro better medical treatment etc.I am not changing my mind that kabuto will pawn the wood-boy.

ChojiMullet
05-21-2007, 02:09 PM
How about Shikamaru vs Kabuto?

Tengu
05-21-2007, 02:18 PM
shika vs kabuto
1st fight =kabuto
2nd fight =shika and if 3rd then shika
and about neji vs sasuke would be a great fight
so i dont know which one of them to choose for a winner

UchihaTaijiya
05-21-2007, 04:30 PM
Kisame vs. the Second

The Second. A Hokage, who alongside the First, put an end to the warring era and established the greatest hidden village. He existed in a era filled with violence and yet was able to rise above it all and create a new era. Sorry, but I can not imagine Kisame winning against him. If anything, it'd be similar to the Naruto vs Gaara fight, where both couldn't stand, but Naruto was the victor.

Kabuto vs. Yamato

Kabuto. In Part I, it was stated that Kabuto was equal to Kakashi. Interestingly enough, when the two had their clash, Kabuto outsmarted Kakashi.
As it's obvious Kakashi has improved, I would think Kabuto had as well. From Yamato's behavior, it seems he's not at Kakashi's level (though he is very powerful). Considering in Part II we haven't seen either Yamato nor Kabuto go all out, I'm just going with what I know.

Neji vs. Sasuke

Sasuke. In Part I, I would have given it to Neji. But that time has passed and Sasuke is beginning to reach the tip of his potential and frankly, by the time all of them are in their prime, the only ninja from Konoha who would be greater than Sasuke is Naruto. (IMO). And none will be greater than Naruto. ^.~ But this could go either way, if Neji got a hit on Sasuke. But could he? Does he have the speed? I'm not sure, so I'm just going with what I know again. XD

Shikamaru vs Kabuto

Ahh, now this is the hardest one yet. It's possible that Kabuto is aware of Shikamaru's shadow abilities (not sure). He did gather information from Konoha for several years, I'm sure he's aware of the Nara Clan's ablilities. Considering that in Part II, it was stated that Kakashi was more intelligent than Shikamaru, and yet in Part I, Kabuto played Kakashi... I would say Kabuto is either as intelligent or even more intelligent than Shikamaru. I'm going to assume that Shikamaru's chakra capacity is lower than Kabuto's..
I'd say that Kabuto is most likely the victor, but Shikamaru is close. It could go either way.

Kaine
05-21-2007, 04:44 PM
well the shikamaru vs kabuto isn't that difficult.As u stated kabuto already has files over konoha so he probably knows shikamaru uses shadow jutsu.Kabuto is very smart he indeed fooled kakashi but this doesn't mean he is equally intelligent to shikamaru.Kakashi was the 1 that said he is smarter than shika but i doupt this is true.About the battle i say kabuto cause shikamaru has to analyze his target to be effective but kabuto has shown in the past he has many trump carts in his sleeves.Not to memntion how good he is in medical jutsu.Shikamaru probably would have a chance if kabuto didn't knew the backround of konoha clans.

MikeyM1979
05-21-2007, 11:42 PM
I'd have to say Kabuto would win, just because he's really sneaky and under handed. Although, if he were caught in the shadows, I can't imagine Kabuto powering his way out of it.

OG
05-21-2007, 11:51 PM
please read the first post everyone...

the current posts that are unacceptable will remain, but anything after this will not be tolerated....

also if u have a question about anything pm me =]

Inazuka
05-22-2007, 01:02 AM
with the kabuto vs shika fight

kabuto is short range hand to hand fighter whereas shika is mid to long range, somewhat like naruto vs diedara so the same rules apply. kakashi said that for a short range fighter to beat a mid to long range fighter u need support of a mid to long range fighter, so basically if shika keeps his distance from kabuto and doesnt waste chakra then he will will because imo they are pretty close in terms of intel

Kaine
05-22-2007, 05:38 AM
with the kabuto vs shika fight

kabuto is short range hand to hand fighter whereas shika is mid to long range, somewhat like naruto vs diedara so the same rules apply. kakashi said that for a short range fighter to beat a mid to long range fighter u need support of a mid to long range fighter, so basically if shika keeps his distance from kabuto and doesnt waste chakra then he will will because imo they are pretty close in terms of intel

shika doesn't know kabuto at all he doesn't know he is medical nin so he will have to sacrifice some time for further analysis.On the other hand kabuto already knows about shika and he is very smart so he is already 1 step furhter than shikamaru in eveything.Kabuto hasn't shown his full power and i am sure his charka capacity is bigger than shikamaru's,since shika tires very easy.So no the distance won't do much furthermore kabuto is able of using genjutsu don't know at which lvl but this tells much of his true power.

Jamesy31
05-22-2007, 11:42 AM
Shika vs. Kabuto: I'd go with Kabuto. My logic is that he has the background information on Shika, but more importantly, Kabuto was able to hole his own against one of the Sannin. Also, Kabuto may be able to summon the lower level snakes, which would be very problematic for Shika. I think that Shika has some brilliant jutsu and that he is very smart, but he would be analyzing as he went and he would have to kill Kabuto in one round. His Shadow jutsu could work, but only if he played Kabuto into it.

All told, I think that Kabuto has medical ninjutsu, the intelligence, the mysterious power (the whole eye thing we saw in the chuunin exam), and possibly summons, all of which would make him hard to take down for Shika. I don't think his genjutsu would be very helpful since Shika is smart and was able to resist the Temple of Nirvana thing at the stadium (when he was a gennin). Long and the short of it is that it would be a good fight, but Kabuto would eventually win.

ChojiMullet
05-22-2007, 11:56 PM
I think that Shika would win due to jutsu matchups and the fact that I do believe Shika would know just as much on Kabuto as he knows on him. I grant that he would know about the shadows but not about his new knives I think that would give him the advantage. Also he already showed what he can do vs one of the top Close range fighters in hidan. for those reasons I think thatShika would win.

Tengu
05-23-2007, 08:47 PM
shika doesn't know kabuto at all he doesn't know he is medical nin so he will have to sacrifice some time for further analysis.On the other hand kabuto already knows about shika and he is very smart so he is already 1 step furhter than shikamaru in eveything.Kabuto hasn't shown his full power and i am sure his charka capacity is bigger than shikamaru's,since shika tires very easy.So no the distance won't do much furthermore kabuto is able of using genjutsu don't know at which lvl but this tells much of his true power.
as i remember shika could dispel and act sleeping when kabuto made temple of nirvana

Kaine
05-24-2007, 07:28 AM
i don't mean the temple of nirvana was something powerfull but he can cast also genjutsu meaning he is very talented,not he is good at it.Even if he is i can't know that i have only seen temple of nirvana(Lithium!!!!!!!),i was reffering to his hidden abilities but i also recall something went wrong with his eye in chunnin exam and he seemed like a tremere,so i was reffering to his true power that hasn't revealed yet.

JustPimpin
05-24-2007, 09:44 AM
i'm pretty sure since shikamaru is a squad leader now... he has read the bingo book, where kabuto is most likely in it. so that being said, i think shikamaru would know alot about kabuto, and would have a TON of strategies already planned out before they even meet. but then if kabuto catches shikamaru off guard, then that's another story, sure shikamaru has his little kage mane no jutsu.... and well that's about it. kabuto is very smart, and very tricky. i'm sure kabuto would have a way of getting out of shikamaru's tecnique, or avoiding it. but kabuto is a close range fighter, if he gets close, he will do some damage to shikamaru, but shikamaru would capture him in him kage mane no jutsu and strangle him.... it all depends on who could hold out for longer, but i'm gonna say they both die, and it's a draw! =}

Kaine
05-24-2007, 02:24 PM
i am sure we said everything about shika vs kabuto
how about neji vs kankuro?My vote goes to neji.

JustPimpin
05-24-2007, 02:59 PM
i don't think anything that kankurou has, can surprise neji. plus if neji had to he could cut kankurou's chakra threads, and then kankurou wouldn't be able to even use his puppets... neji would win easily!

GAma_Oyabun
05-24-2007, 06:27 PM
kankuro is a jonin for a reason. hes not as good as sasori as we can see but he did put up a fight. for me i think the winner is still neji because he can see chakra, he can most likely see all of kankuro's chakra strings, therefore will never be surprised.

JustPimpin
05-24-2007, 06:43 PM
So Is This Fight Over? How About A Fight Between Shizune V.s. Sakura? We Have Shizune, The Right Hand Of The 5th Hokage V.s. Sakura, The Left Hand Of The 5th Hokage?

MikeyM1979
05-24-2007, 10:59 PM
My memory may be a little off, but Shizune couldn't do anything against someone like Kabuto, right? Hmm. I doubt Sakura could do much against him either. But she is a Tsunade junior. We don't really know what Shizune is capable of.

GAma_Oyabun
05-25-2007, 04:03 AM
um i say sakura all the way. shizune couldnt hold her ground against kabuto and i doubt shes training. shes a good med nin but her combat skills arent that high even though she's a jonin. sakura can improvise and fight on par with sasori (even though she had help from chiyo basama i think only sakura could have pulled this off)

Sharingan Lord
05-25-2007, 03:29 PM
Shizune is a Jounin, yes. All she specializes in is poisoning and stuff like that. So, yeah, agreeing with EJ-mon, Sakura > Shizune.

MikeyM1979
05-25-2007, 03:44 PM
Really? That's it? o_O Just poison? Oh my. Sakura would wipe the floor with her.

AnticitizenOne
05-27-2007, 11:49 AM
Just like to set some thing straight with the Nidaime vs Kisame arguments. Nidaime in the Manga DOES NOT HAVE THE DARKNESS TECHNIQUE!!!! Reread that episode, in the Manga it was SHODAIME who used the Darkness Technique, and this is the manga section with the manga vs thread, therefore Nidaime using the Darkness Technique in the Anime is completely and totally void.

For the current battle: I have to say Sakura's massive strength would defeat Shizune's poison mist and prepared needle shot by a lot at this point. Actually, looking back it could be either of them to win, since I don't think Sakura can avoid poisonous needles that could easily kill her if only one needle got in, or the poisonous mist Shizune breathes. Overall I think Sakura and Shizune would have some kind of stalemate or tie, without either of them being the clear victor.

Silverblade
05-27-2007, 07:26 PM
Shizune > Sakura.. Shizune has way more experience than Sakura.. the only thing you saw her do is shoot poison needles.. Shizune is very intelligent and fast. Sakura is going to do what? Punch the ground numerous of times and then Shizune gets her in a blind spot, thus pwnage.

MikeyM1979
05-27-2007, 07:29 PM
Shizune > Sakura.. Shizune has way more experience than Sakura..Experience doesn't always win fights.

the only thing you saw her do is shoot poison needles..Which wasn't even that impressive. =\

Shizune is very intelligent and fast.Sakura is intelligent also. And how do you know she's very fast, if all we've seen her do is shoot needles? Ah, you don't.

Sakura is going to do what? Punch the ground numerous of times and then Shizune gets her in a blind spot, thus pwnage.You're underestimating Sakura. Shame.

Jamesy31
05-27-2007, 07:54 PM
I think that Sakura would be hard pressed against Shizune. Not that she isn't talented, but Shizune is a jounin (I'm making an assumption here because we saw her leading a team), which means she can manipulate at least 2 elements. As far as I know, Sakura doesn't have the ability to manipulate any.

I think that Sakura would also be at a disadvantage because Shizune is probably (given the immense amount of training from Tsunade) a better medical-nin than Sakura. As we have seen on multiple occasions, strength isn't everything.

I think that Shizune would be the winner here.

EJ
05-27-2007, 10:29 PM
Hmmm..........mind your business! I can say what I want here as long as I not being races, gay bashing or saying anything threating!! :D

perfect example of spam :/

I agree with Mikey a lot

new fight:

Sai vs. Yamato

tough fight, although I think yamato might pull off a win

blake
05-28-2007, 12:07 PM
i dont think sai would have a chance. how bout a new more fair fight. kakashi vs. yamato. im sayin yamato, they were both in anbu so u kinda cant say kakashi has an advantage cause of that. kakashi does have the sharingan but it cant copy yamatos wood element, i think. and it seems that yamato has more chakra. im just basing that on him creating the water fall and him being able to control natutos 2000 clones from going kyuubi.

AnticitizenOne
05-28-2007, 12:14 PM
Thinking a bit harder and using some more common sense, I would think that Shizune would win, since Sakura really doesn't have anything to counter her poisonous needles nor her mist. Sakura could of course heal herself with Mystical Palm, but it probably wouldn't end up working because she would use way too much chakra doing it. Shizune is also fast enough for Kabuto to even be afraid of her, even though he handed her her ass in a fight later.

So yes, Sakura isn't really that impressive when you think about it, if she even makes the slightest mistake her punches would not work. Right now I'd say Shizune, assuming she improved over timeskip like EVERYONE else did, would be equal to what Kakashi was at the very beginning of the series, she'd be able to trump Sakura easily.
Experience doesn't always win fights.
It sure helps a hell of a lot, that's why Naruto and Sakura had absolutely no chance at defeating Kakashi, because he was more experianced and knew far more about battle than they did.
Which wasn't even that impressive. =\
Once you can find a SINGLE impressive thing that Sakura did in a non-filler arc pre timeskip PLEASE let me know.
Sakura is intelligent also. And how do you know she's very fast, if all we've seen her do is shoot needles? Ah, you don't.
Kabuto even said himself that Shizune was extremely fast even compared to him, she barely blocked his needles and her poison mist would probably choke sakura and defeat her.
You're underestimating Sakura. Shame.
He was actually correct in what he said.

SirBenoit
05-28-2007, 12:23 PM
i dont think sai would have a chance. how bout a new more fair fight. kakashi vs. yamato. im sayin yamato, they were both in anbu so u kinda cant say kakashi has an advantage cause of that. kakashi does have the sharingan but it cant copy yamatos wood element, i think. and it seems that yamato has more chakra. im just basing that on him creating the water fall and him being able to control natutos 2000 clones from going kyuubi.I really cant see kakashi losing to yamato, shit sasuke pawnd yamato is a second. It was never said that yamato has more chakra then kakashi, all yamato was doing was was controling naruto chakra and that was because of the crystal. Plus kakashi has the ms, not saying yamato is weak, just kakashi has the edge

nejismirk
05-28-2007, 12:27 PM
if shizune improved like everyone else did during the time skip i would have to say shizune. she would beat sakura in a long arduos battle since they have a hobby of healing themselves.

yamato < sai hands down.

how about lee vs hinata for a change coz he's always being paired against neji.

i'd say lee. lee's taijutsu skills are formidable to say at the very least. to some it is also questionable who would win if he and neji would fight. if they are almost at the same level and hinata isnt even close to neji, then i'd go for lee.

and, he obviously owned her in the spirit and confidence part.

Kaine
05-28-2007, 02:01 PM
shizune vs sakura:
omg shizune was and is a weakling kabuto owned her very badly.She was so waek that kabuto managed to deflect her poison needles with his forehead protector.I mean how sloooooow she can be when spitting things?(sic).Sakura would break her skull in one hit only.
abbout lee vs hinata
Are thou serious my friend?Lee will break hinata's limps,without using the gates at all.Only if he gets his weights off he would own he very bad...

Distortion
05-28-2007, 02:10 PM
My memory may be a little off, but Shizune couldn't do anything against someone like Kabuto, right? Hmm. I doubt Sakura could do much against him either. But she is a Tsunade junior. We don't really know what Shizune is capable of.

Someone ''like'' Kabuto? Pre-timeskip kabuto was the one who almost beat Tsunade through sheer intelligence. Don't underestimate him. Shizune > Sakura pretimeskip.

OG
05-29-2007, 02:29 AM
Kidmac1
RasenganAcv2
^ both of you have spammed in this thread, i have deleted them, GIVING you both a chance...
THIS IS A WARNING...DO NOT SPAM.

ALSO, READ THE FIRST POST!!!
^ this goes for the two named and anyone that hasn't done so already

MikeyM1979
05-29-2007, 02:45 AM
It sure helps a hell of a lot, that's why Naruto and Sakura had absolutely no chance at defeating Kakashi, because he was more experianced and knew far more about battle than they did.Yes, experience certainly helped the likes or Orochimaru, who was easily defeated by someone less experienced in Sasuke. As I said, experience doesn't win every battle.

Once you can find a SINGLE impressive thing that Sakura did in a non-filler arc pre timeskip PLEASE let me know.Pre-time skip? Why? I never mentioned I was refering to Sakura pre-time skip. I was always talking about Sakura after the time skip. So, I really hope you're not asking me to provide one thing that she did that was impressive, because that's simply asking to easily make this post of yours useless.

Kabuto even said himself that Shizune was extremely fast even compared to himThen she was owned. Easily.

he barely blocked her needlesYeah....I guess her ability to spit objects is impressive, eh?

and her poison mist would probably choke sakura and defeat her.Yeah. Assuming Sakura just stands there and breathes it all in. Do you really expect her to do that?

He was actually correct in what he said.Not really.

Someone ''like'' Kabuto? Pre-timeskip kabuto was the one who almost beat Tsunade through sheer intelligence. Don't underestimate him. Shizune > Sakura pretimeskip.Oh, I agree that pre-time skip, she's better. Anyone is better. But I never said I was talking about Sakura pre-time skip. I was talking about post time-skip Sakura vs pre-time skip Shizune, since we've not really seen what she's capable of after the time skip. As for Kabuto and Tsunade, well, if it weren't for the luck he had that Tsunade had a fear of blood, he wouldn't have been able to do much against her. Again, my memory may not be very good, since I haven't watched anything from part 1 in a while, but didn't Tsunade pretty much trump Kabuto every time, until he used her fears against her? Yeah. If it weren't for her fear of blood, he'd have been a goner.

nejismirk
05-29-2007, 03:42 AM
shizune vs sakura:
abbout lee vs hinata
Are thou serious my friend?Lee will break hinata's limps,without using the gates at all.Only if he gets his weights off he would own he very bad...

serious about what? i did say lee would win. and if you would sum up what i'd said, hinata doesnt even come close to lee.

Kaine
05-29-2007, 08:00 AM
no i meant putting a vs like this when the 1 person has no chances of vitory not that u said hinata would win or something.About something mikeym1979 said.No kabuto was hitting tsunade roughly and she had a hard time even before he cutted himself to provoke her fears.A new fight since everything is pretty much answeared.
Kiba vs Lee.I have to agree we haven't seen kiba a.t.s. so i say both in pre-time.I say lee for opening six-gates.Eventhough kiba would give him a hard time i guess.

nejismirk
05-29-2007, 11:45 AM
oh okay. its just that lee's been always paired against neji. and i just want to diss hinata on purpose.:p

lee< kiba...kiba's not a pushover but lee's pretty good for him. he'll beat kiba in a good fight.

blake
05-29-2007, 07:08 PM
kiba pre time skip would definately lose to lee. he was probably the fastest person in the chunnin exam when he opened his gates and all lee would have to do is catch him in the lotus and its over

nejismirk
05-31-2007, 03:17 AM
how about pre-time skip chouji vs kiba?

how do you guys think their rolling/spinning hobby of theirs work against each other?

Sharingan Lord
05-31-2007, 05:46 PM
The fact that all the Akamichi clan does is multi-size themselves and roll around doesn't impress me too much (Wario might be), but it's pretty cool, and it would work for smudging certain villains, as well as charity work and stuff.

During a battle, suppose someone pops them? Not so helpful now, is it?

EJ
05-31-2007, 06:27 PM
hmmmm Kiba does have that conjoined jutsu with Akamaru(is it akamaru?), which makes them into a huge two headed dog, so, like SL stated, the akimichi clan rolls around like a ball, while Chouji does that, all Kiba needs to do is grab Chouji like a chew toy and shake him around until he gives out

kidmac1
05-31-2007, 06:54 PM
Kiba hands down, because the only thing that Chouji mastered is stuff your face jutsu. :D

ITzANIllUZion
05-31-2007, 08:25 PM
pre-timeskip hrmmm...well...damn....its kinda hard......i would go with chouji...i would love to see kiba and akamaru escape from chouji's massive hands....

Kaine
06-01-2007, 06:57 AM
pre time skip chouji wins for the pills.No question about it.Eventhough without the pills kiba would have kicked his fat ass easy.But if he takes the red pill(i think),kiba nad akamaru would die easy.

MikeyM1979
06-01-2007, 07:53 AM
It's basically a fight to see how long Kiba and his pooch can stay alive while Chouji is in super-pill mode. Once he's started using the pills, Kiba has to pretty much concentrate on not getting stomped in 1-2 hits completely. If he can wear down Chouji, then I'd say Kiba wins. If a pill drive Chouji is able to beat down on Kiba, then it's all over.

nejismirk
06-01-2007, 12:44 PM
chouji in cute but deadly butterfly mode can own kiba if doesnt go volting in with akamaru for that double headed doggy transformation. hmmm...chouji will beat kiba in a good fight.

tien
06-01-2007, 01:55 PM
As STRONG as Kakashi, not as good, he is smart, but no Kakashi. I would say strong as in chakra level, nothing more. Furthermore, like Dr Gero, whose inscect thing could not follow goku those to namek. kabuto's data is obsolete. As obsolete as when Naruto owned that ass with rasengan, he was surprised. SO, he gathers data, general data, when he has time, but growth of an individual, grows or stagnates. I would say shikamaru is much smarter now. And I am sorry, again I will say Kakashi greater speed is only because of his Itachi encounter. And I would imagine he has studied some mdeical ninjustu as well to deal with kabuto. Remember when the third died, kabuto did not want to fight , for fear that kakashi would copy his techniques.


And again I say that the hyuugas, and skilled med-nin, IF they know the nature of the sharingan. Are it's natural enemies. When Kyuubi took over naruto at the valley of the end, Sasuke was powerless, because the fox's chakra had no set designation, so he had no chakra 'flow' to foresee. Again, Neji has a greater degree over his chakra than most, and a skill med-nin could emulate that as well, meaning control their chakra flow, so that the sharingan user, has no designated flow, to pre-determine where you are. I doubt even kakashi knows this.

Far as shika, tsunade has given him access to mos of her files, she trusts in his intelligence, I can safely say, that studying up on Oro, and his subordinate, was a prioroty. I can safely say, he would not have to analalyze much with Kabuto, like someone said, Kabuto is doing med stuff for Oro. I think as far as growth, his skills have not changed much, unless he made some DNA manipulation through things he has learned from his experimentation, like that anko arc, with the sea creature.

AND, Tsunade was RUSTY, RUSTY as hell when she fought kabuto, she was basically just gambling for years. I PROMISE YOU, if kabuto fought her now, he is dead, dead. Not only is she getting better through learning med secrets from teh various clans of the hidden leaf, but through training sakura, has gotten over her rustiness, and no doubt formulate strategies, if she comes up against certain enemies.


She was underpowered and rusty when she was hauling around the sword of gamabunta for Gwad sakes, anticipated manda's attacks to pin his ass to the ground. Come on, sometimes some of you do not think. Again, I promise you, kabuto would be so dead if he came against her again. She is back in her groove now.

nejismirk
06-01-2007, 02:04 PM
^....this was what page/s again?

anyways, pre-time skip kabuto vs. kakashi...

Kaine
06-01-2007, 02:42 PM
kakashi pre-time i guess.Since after-time skip he would own him adly with the ms.Very roughly and bad.Pre time skip they are almost the same,jiraiya said so but i think kakashi can win because of the sharingan but it would be a very nice battle.Omg i forgot u saw kabuto's eye in the 356?What in hells name is this guy.I guess after all we don't know much about him so the result might change easy...

blake
06-01-2007, 05:12 PM
kabuto pre time skip. he was just as strong as kakashi then but not anymore

JustPimpin
06-02-2007, 09:31 PM
how about chiyobaa-sama v.s. naruto? wouldn't that be the sweetest fight? naruto's clones v.s. chiyobaa's puppets.... both are very skilled, i think this would be a GREAT fight.

MikeyM1979
06-02-2007, 10:40 PM
Chiyo is old, but very experienced. Naruto is young and has power and stamina on his side, but not experience. I'd have to say Naruto, simply because he can probably outlast her.

naru-toe
06-03-2007, 12:47 AM
One blast of narutos wind spiraling shuriken and you can say her puppets are as good as gone to the wood scrap yard

nejismirk
06-03-2007, 07:44 AM
naruto will beat her and her puppets with his agility and big chakra reserve which he'll use for his rasengan or rasenshuriken...

ChojiMullet
06-03-2007, 01:29 PM
Yeah I think that Granny would win because she showed with her 10 puppets that the can take on more numbers and Naruto's style does not lend it to not getting hit and VS a puppet master one hit and you are done for. Although with his new focus on using the clones to learn the fight might be more like 2 puppet users with Naruto stepping back and letting his clones fight. In that case Naruto wins.

EJ
06-03-2007, 05:35 PM
knowing Naruto, he wouldn't use Rasenshuriken on her or anybody, unless it is absolutely necessary

I vote Naruto because he'd outlast her,

Silverblade
06-03-2007, 05:42 PM
Naruto > Granny Chiyo

Come on he uses his clones more efficiently, more tactical and is more powerful. He will use his shadow clones to go at it with the puppet and then cast off a mass shadow clone and chiyo will be distracted and Bang caught her with rasengan so i say Naruto owns her big time.

nejismirk
06-06-2007, 02:39 AM
how 'bout kiba vs. shino?

JustPimpin
06-06-2007, 09:37 AM
Shino, Kiba's Little Mut Wouldn't Last More Than 5 Minutes With Shino's Bugs! Lol While The Flees Are Whooping Akamaru's Ass, Shino Would Be Kicking Kiba's Ass.

Silverblade
06-06-2007, 09:13 PM
Okay. No Contest here... Dog boy vs Insect Master who will win? Insect Master of course, because he can actually send a whole fleet of bugs within the kid's hair and in his pet's fur both of them will be scratching like no tomorrow.

kakashi-senpai
06-06-2007, 09:20 PM
enough of this lee vs. neji

I say lee for one he is much faster than neji especially without his weights on we have to assume he is even faster than before and he probably is. while neji could use juuken it's useless against some as fast as lee. not to mention the lotus would be enough if by some chance it wouldn't which i highly doubt lee can open 5 gates and tear neji apart and his byakugan wouldn't help once that happens.

my vote goes to lee.

Oishi-desu
06-09-2007, 03:08 AM
hmm, lee is really fast but neji has the benefits of the byakugan

and he also is a jounin (is rock lee i jounin? i forget)

I think neji would have the lead with his kaiten and other extremely useful techniques

nejismirk
06-09-2007, 03:56 AM
neji...

no oishi...only neji is the jounin among the konoha 11.

yeah lee's fast and it is his advantage but it doesnt mean that neji cant do anything about it.first of all neji has the byakugan and i dont need to explain what it can do. he doesnt need to be as fast as lee, neji being a smart guy could just use some timing there then he'll strike his tenketsu and other tai's. its internal damage and chakra gates closed which will prevent him opening chakra gates and going berserk which is his forte. its over.

but its going to be a good fight though.

Oishi-desu
06-09-2007, 04:09 AM
eheh ^^ typo, i meant if neji was jounin,

but yeah, im in favor of neji

nejismirk
06-09-2007, 04:25 AM
anyways i did say neji is a jounin either way ^^

kay how bout chouji vs. shino?

Oishi-desu
06-09-2007, 04:39 AM
ahaha

chouji would sound like tasty bug snack

nejismirk
06-09-2007, 04:47 AM
lol. really?

anyways i'd say chouji..when he takes his pills and go butterfly mode he'll make bug chips out of shino's bugs.

JustPimpin
06-11-2007, 12:39 PM
chouji would use his attack where he turns into a ball and he'll roll over and squash ALL of shinos bugs lol

what about sasori of the red sand v.s. gaara of the desert? wouldn't that be a sweet one? and to make it fair gaara can only turn into the small version of shukaku(when he was fighting sasuke& naruto at the chuunin exams, in the forest)

Nexus
06-11-2007, 01:33 PM
I'll say that this fight could go either way. I'm leaning moreso towards Sasori since he did kill the strongest Kazekage in history.

Oishi-desu
06-11-2007, 02:26 PM
I'd lean towards gaara, because each akatsuki member has their specialty, and deidara's mass explosions can somewhat counter gaara, but I dunno how Sasori would deal with a flying Gaara and a hole village of sand

MikeyM1979
06-11-2007, 03:24 PM
It is true that each Akatsuki member has their own specialty, but wasn't Sasori Deidara's master? Meaning, he could most likely beat Deidara easily? Why else would he be called master? If that's the case, and Deidara was able to out smart, defeat, and kill Gaara, then I suspect Sasori would do the same.

Shrike
06-11-2007, 04:19 PM
Well,Sasori would probably be the victor.Firstly,he wouldn't invade Sungakure kile an idiot on a bird,but he will do it as a stealth mission.Once he got to Gaara,Sandaime Kazekage's Satetsu would make short work of Gaara's normal sand.
Even in an all out battle,the open battle,Sasori's 300 puppets would be more then enough.You can't defend from so many opponents.

nejismirk
06-12-2007, 12:08 PM
sasori>deidara>gaara.

SirBenoit
06-12-2007, 12:18 PM
I believe that deidara could have beaten sasori, even if he was his master. Also sasori was probably his master because hes been there longer than deidara. Deidara could use his bird and fly really high and be sending huge c2 bombs at sasori. Not that it would be that easy

lufia
06-12-2007, 04:56 PM
deidara admits sasori is stronger.

his own creation killed him.

Tengu
06-14-2007, 10:41 AM
I would like to see 7even swordsmens(with saigetsu)* vs aka (without kisame,oro)*
*the 4 unknown,saigetsu,kisame,zabuza. i didnt forget raiga cuz he is noobish :D
AL,blue,deidera,itachi,hidan,zetsu,obito
thats 7 vs 7

katonha
06-14-2007, 11:31 AM
There is no proof that Tobi is Obito yet.

Akatsuki would slaughter the Seven Swordsmen of the mist. You notice how all the Swordsmen who are dead have been killed by someone who could be taken care of easily by Akatsuki.:cool:

Oishi-desu
06-14-2007, 11:31 PM
well, we cant really determine the fight due to the lack of knowledge of both akatsuki and the 7 swordsmen

but yeah, no one in the series seem really that concerned with the swords OR the swordsmen, other than of course, suigetsu and kisame xD

garra.
06-17-2007, 12:00 AM
try this one kimmaru vs sasuke after time skip now before u say anything remember kimmaru was wanted by orochimaru before oro even wanted itachi

MikeyM1979
06-17-2007, 12:28 AM
Kimimaro was dead after the time skip, so I'd assume this is a Kimimaro pre-time skip while still sick, vs Sasuke post time skip. Hm.

I'd say Sasuke, since he can fly, can still attack from long range, is also a skilled close range fighter, and well....he can simply out last Kimimaro. *waits for Anti to break down my post lol*

Distortion
06-17-2007, 12:50 AM
Sasuke would win simply because he would be able to cut down Kimimaro with ease. Chidori cuts even through the hardest metals and his speed plus sharingan would make it even easier to attack Kimimaro's internal organs or just pop a chidori in his face. Kimimaro's bloodline trait would be easily defeated by chidori manipulation.

garra.
06-17-2007, 07:32 PM
okay try this one itach vs gaara both after time skip

Shrike
06-18-2007, 03:24 AM
Sasuke vs Kimimaro - Sasuke..though Kimi was very strong
Itachi vs Gaara - Itachi...Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi did not find a match yet(beside Kakashi's MS).

garra.
06-18-2007, 03:43 AM
hey shrike i have a question for u would that sharingian work on gaara when he is in the shukaku form seruious question

and also wat about lee all 6 gates open vs butterfly choji

Distortion
06-18-2007, 02:36 PM
Itachi vs Gaara would be one sided on Itachi's case. Not because he's fast and has a bunch of jutsu. Simply because Itachi could make Gaara relive all the pain he's gone through since childhood, which would probably drive Gaara insane and thus making it easy for Itachi to win.
Lee 6 gates vs Steriod Chouji = Lee wins. Lee has both strength and speed during this time, unlike Chouji who even though gains a little speed is no where near enough to fight against the gates strength and agility.

EJ
06-18-2007, 02:43 PM
erm

Obito vs. pre-timeskip Sasuke

sasuke

Nexus
06-18-2007, 04:37 PM
I say pre-timeskip Sasuke because he has the advantage over Obito. Sasuke's stronger, faster, smarter and has better knowledge of the Sharingan than Obito.

EJ
06-18-2007, 04:44 PM
that was a given lol

Deidara vs. Sasori?

MikeyM1979
06-18-2007, 04:46 PM
that was a given lol

Deidara vs. Sasori?
Ooh. That's a good one. But, I'd have to say Sasori, since he was Deidara's master.

EJ
06-18-2007, 04:51 PM
I see your point but...

how is Sasori gonna catch up to Deidara when he's in the sky throwing bombs at him?

I vote Deidara on this one

Nexus
06-18-2007, 05:05 PM
I say Sasori because of his poisons and other jutsus that he has. I'm pretty sure that Sasori knows Deidara like the back of his hand and Deidara stated clearly that he was stronger than him.

EJ
06-18-2007, 05:06 PM
crap, I forgot that little detail

I still vote for Deidara, I'm sure he could easily avoid Sasori's puppets

Nexus
06-18-2007, 05:13 PM
Here's one:

- Kisame vs. Kimimaro

MikeyM1979
06-18-2007, 05:23 PM
crap, I forgot that little detail

I still vote for Deidara, I'm sure he could easily avoid Sasori's puppetsDeidara couldn't even easily avoid Sasuke. :p

Here's one:

- Kisame vs. KimimaroKisame. I bet Anti will go for Kimimaro. :) Most of his attacks can be blocked with the Samehada, I would think. And when he uses that large bone...move, from the ground that nearly made Gaara and Lee into minced meat, I'm sure Kisame can avoid that. I mean, he can just make a huge lake, or just move around on the larger bed of water, as if nothing had happened.

Distortion
06-18-2007, 05:29 PM
I think even Kisame would have trouble with Kimimaro, Kisame has skill and a good percentage of chakra but Kimimaro has that whole ''cant be hurt physically'' thing. Then again everyone needs air right? So If I was Kisame I would just make a huge lake or ocean out of no where and pull Kimimaro inside. Then I would make him sufficate till he died. Or simply trap Kimimaro into that little water orb jutsu, which name I cant recall.

Kisame imo would win

MikeyM1979
06-18-2007, 05:31 PM
I think even Kisame would have trouble with Kimimaro, Kisame has skill and a good percentage of chakra but Kimimaro has that whole ''cant be hurt physically'' thing. Then again everyone needs air right? So If I was Kisame I would just make a huge lake or ocean out of no where and pull Kimimaro inside. Then I would make him sufficate till he died. Or simply trap Kimimaro into that little water orb jutsu, which name I cant recall.

Kisame imo would winIt'd be basically Samehada's strength vs Kimimaro's dense exterior. You do have a point, though. Kisame can just easily drown Kimimaro.

EJ
06-18-2007, 05:45 PM
not only that but also absorb chakra so Kimmimaro won't be able to use his Kekke Genkai thus making it easier to attack

Kisame > Kimmi on this one :)

MikeyM1979
06-18-2007, 05:47 PM
not only that but also absorb chakra so Kimmimaro won't be able to use his Kekke Genkai thus making it easier to attack

Kisame > Kimmi on this one :)Well, wait a minute. We've only seen Samehada absorb chakra that was visible. Like when it cut through Kyuubi's chakra in part 1. We've never seen Kimimaro's chakra visible, so I don't think the Samehada will play much of a role, in terms of cutting down on Kimi's chakra.

katonha
06-18-2007, 07:09 PM
I know Kisame would win.
Kisame would be just to powerful for Kimimaru. Kisame has monstorous strength and could probably break Kimimaru's banes with his Samehada or he could just drown Kimimaru.:cool:

ITzANIllUZion
06-18-2007, 07:19 PM
>.> the only way i see kisame winning is drowning kimi. Samehada wount be able to break kimi's bones..if gaara's sand pressure cant crush him i doubt the sword can break the bones. only good samehada would be is if kimi uses some chakra that is visable..but from what we say of kimi...he dosnt use any visable chakra..not even with his Kekke Genkai. if kimi was to use that final move he used on gaara that was gonna kill him..it would render kisame's ocan water thing usless..it will be filled with sharp bones.

Trey
06-18-2007, 08:50 PM
Samaheda isn't designed to crush, it's designed to shear. So, he's basically going to dice Kimmi up, leaving him bleeding out like Dom falling into a Locust pit on a hot Sunday afternoon without a Lancer.

yondaimehokage16
06-18-2007, 09:20 PM
he said my samahada eats chakra doesnt say nothing bout visible or not so i would assume it eats any chakra.

and yes kisame easily pwns kimi

garra.
06-18-2007, 11:06 PM
what about gaarra in his full shukaku form vs naruto in 4 tails mode
and gaara is asleep so the actual demon is awake

yondaimehokage16
06-19-2007, 12:10 AM
what about gaarra in his full shukaku form vs naruto in 4 tails mode
and gaara is asleep so the actual demon is awake

naruto 4 tails hands down his atacks are stronger and naruto unlike garra is in his own body plus kyuubi gives you insane speed the chakra protect you from anything. plus that odama rasengan is scary if he did it with 4 tails. plus don't forget his one blast took out 3 rashamon gates 3 of them with that being said its four tails vs. 1 there is a reason kyuubi is the most feared cause he is the strongest bijju. 2 tails would be enough to take out shukaku.

Nexus
06-19-2007, 12:19 AM
Nice responses, folks... Here's one:

- Itachi vs. Shikamaru (Just joking...)

- Orochimaru vs. Deidara

Distortion
06-19-2007, 12:33 AM
Orochimaru, cause if Deidara goes and flys to the sky, Manda will just reach and bite him down. 0_o Not to mention that Orochimaru would probably not even be effected by those explosives, considering his body is so durable and can take a lot of hits.

garra.
06-19-2007, 01:35 AM
oro would win he knows alot more justus
what about jirya and oro vs itach and kisame:cool:

Nexus
06-19-2007, 04:02 AM
I say that Itachi & Kisame would win. With Itachi already defeating Orochimaru and surprising Jiraiya greatly, then him and Kisame would have the advantage.

Shrike
06-19-2007, 04:08 AM
DeiDei vs Oro - Oro
Jira+Oro vs Itachi+Kisame - ugh,a hard one.I will go with Itachi and Kisame simply because they are a better pair.Super speed,MS,and whatnot form Itachi and a chakra monster who is Kisame vs a generally slow ninja,great ninjutsu user,and frog summoner which is Jiraiya and jutsu master Oro.
Oro would be very hard to defeat,but if Itachi cuts off his hand like he was harmless then I guess he could have toy with him in a real battle.

yondaimehokage16
06-19-2007, 07:00 AM
jir+oro those 2 are much like sasuke and naruto it doesn't matter if they hate each other they def have insane team work. plus jir would take itachi oro can take out kisame. jir jutsu can take out the both of those 2 with oro at his side edo tensei. better yet manda and gamnbutan can eat those 2. itachi and kisame would put up a valient effort but in the end jir and oro will come out on top i have no doubts in that not even a little.

Distortion
06-19-2007, 12:57 PM
jir+oro those 2 are much like sasuke and naruto it doesn't matter if they hate each other they def have insane team work. plus jir would take itachi oro can take out kisame. jir jutsu can take out the both of those 2 with oro at his side edo tensei. better yet manda and gamnbutan can eat those 2. itachi and kisame would put up a valient effort but in the end jir and oro will come out on top i have no doubts in that not even a little.

LOL, true.

Jiraiya Orochimaru vs Itachi and Kisame = Sannins win. Orochimaru can fight with Kisame while Itachi fights with Jiraiya, so mr. serpant wouldn't be too scared to fight the sharingan user, he can have the fish instead.

garra.
06-19-2007, 01:38 PM
yea i agree i think sanin would win
so what about naruto and kimmimaru vs saskue and itachi everyone here is after the time skip exept kimmimaru of course but lets just say kimmimaru is not sick anymore then who do u think would win:cool:

AnticitizenOne
06-19-2007, 02:30 PM
I doubt that the sannin would win. Just because they both hate eachother and Kisame and Itachi are a perfect team. I doubt either of them could withstand an Amaterasu attack, or stay awake after resisting Tsukuyomi. I don't think the summons would matter much, who says Itachi can't use his own? Also, Kisame has the sharks, and if he surrounded the entire battlefield with water again and used his Goshokuzame, then I think he could take down at least one of the summons, since his sharks are invincible while underwater unless some kind of power takes them fully out all at once. All of this pales in comparison to the fact that Orochimaru would try and kill Jiraiya during the fight.

Kimimaro and Naruto vs Sasuke??? I dunno but I say Kimimaro (though I hate to admit it) wouldn't have much bearing on the fight since his skill isn't like what Sasuke has now. Still I think Naruto and him would win just because of the Kyuubi tails and his invincibility plus unlimited chakra while in the tailed forms. Sure, Kimimaro would do something during the fight, but not much compared to those two post timeskip. Now, if Kimimaro had a chance to improve over the timeskip, then I say he could probably defeat Naruto at least. This is just based on how easily he handled Naruto pre timeskip, and how without his disease he could have eliminated Gaara and Rock Lee. Also, at that time Gaara>Sasuke, just because Sasuke couldn't withstand his Ryuusa Bakuryu and Sabaku Taiso, or that attack that sent Kimimaro underground. The fact is Kimimaro is just incredibly resilient, and strong enough to force his way out of the desert coffin on pure strength and stamina. Not to mention he was slower in his CS2 form, and he was still able to evade the sand attacks.

Nexus
06-19-2007, 11:19 PM
I say Sasuke & Itachi on this one... Sasuke can clean up Naruto (as usual) and Itachi would take care of Kimimaro. I don't see Kimimaro defeating Itachi and I know skilled he is... Itachi would burn through those bones of Kimimaro with the Amaterasu.

yondaimehokage16
06-19-2007, 11:25 PM
those bones are indestructible i say kimmi and naruto cause of the kyuubi sasuke stands no chance against 3 tailed naruto no chance not even mentioning 4 tails. and i have doubts on how well itachi could withstand against naruto kyuubi 4. plus kimmi not sick his skills would have advanced far beyond sasuke since he was on a way higher level already he can hold his own against itachi i say kimmi/naruto

plus he got out of desert funeral/coffin more than once and i doubt itachi can get out of it more than once maybe once curtosy of amaterasu but after that complete loss of chakra. i say naruto/kimmi.

Nexus
06-19-2007, 11:42 PM
those bones are indestructible i say kimmi and naruto cause of the kyuubi sasuke stands no chance against 3 tailed naruto no chance not even mentioning 4 tails. and i have doubts on how well itachi could withstand against naruto kyuubi 4. plus kimmi not sick his skills would have advanced far beyond sasuke since he was on a way higher level already he can hold his own against itachi i say kimmi/naruto

plus he got out of desert funeral/coffin more than once and i doubt itachi can get out of it more than once maybe once curtosy of amaterasu but after that complete loss of chakra. i say naruto/kimmi.

Listen, Sasuke will not let Naruto transform... he'll shut down the Kyuubi chakra before he let that happen so Naruto wouldn't stand a chance against Sasuke now (and hasn't)... The bottomline is that Sasuke will be better than Kimimaro in the end because he has so much potential to do too many things. He's already better than Kimimaro right now since Kimimaro can't defeat 1. Orochimaru and 2. Deidara

ITzANIllUZion
06-19-2007, 11:49 PM
ill go with naruto and kimmi...
as a joke...y would i go with them....sauske will try and attack itachi..he wont team up with him..

ok on serious...hrmm well..i dont know wha to say about itachi and kimi..both fast...he was gonna be oro's container..but his sickness prevented that..sasuke wouldnt stand a chance agains him.

now naruto and sasuke..it would come down to their strongest attack..like always...rasengan vs chidori..but in this case..their improved ones..and that would put naruto ontop. naruto has been hit by sauske's katon once and it didnt do much to him..except burn his clothes...
i dont think sasuke blocked out kyuubi...he just went into naruto's mind and saw it...after naruto said he wasnt gonna use his powers..

naruto kimi for the win

garra.
06-20-2007, 01:21 AM
i think naruto and kimmimaru would be a better team than saskue and itachi i think naruto and kimm would win what about kakashis team (kikashi ,naruto,sakura,sai)vs gaaras team(baki,gaara,kankuro,and temari)all after time skip of course who would win personally i think gaaras team

Trey
06-22-2007, 02:37 PM
Alright, new subject:

PreTS Sasuke Vs Kurenai, who'd win?

I think Kurenai would, her genjutsu is too much for Sasuke to handle.

MikeyM1979
06-22-2007, 02:40 PM
Alright, new subject:

PreTS Sasuke Vs Kurenai, who'd win?

I think Kurenai would, her genjutsu is too much for Sasuke to handle.
I bust on Kurenai alot for being pretty weak for a Jounin, but she's also stated to be the strongest (at the time) genjutsu user. Pre-time skip Sasuke was never known for being a strong genjutsu user. The only way for him to win is to see through or counter anything she tosses at him and hit her with Chidori. Possibly in CS2 form. But I don't know if she'd let him even begin the Chidori process. I'd have to say Kurenai would take it.

Trey
06-22-2007, 02:42 PM
Yeah, she does appear pretty weak. Then again, she was only shwon in battle for a severely limited time.

I was mostly trying to draw out Sasuke fanboys so I can get some sort of debate/argument going.

Nexus
06-22-2007, 02:52 PM
I agree that pre-timeskip Sasuke would be no match for Kurenai. Well, how about post-timeskip Sasuke vs. Kurenai? I put my money on Sasuke.

MikeyM1979
06-22-2007, 03:46 PM
Yeah, she does appear pretty weak. Then again, she was only shwon in battle for a severely limited time.

I was mostly trying to draw out Sasuke fanboys so I can get some sort of debate/argument going.I'm not a fanboy of his (just a fan), I could've put up an argument for Sasuke, but it'd be difficult for me to stomach, mainly because I wouldn't believe in anything I'd say in the debate.

I agree that pre-timeskip Sasuke would be no match for Kurenai. Well, how about post-timeskip Sasuke vs. Kurenai? I put my money on Sasuke.Post time skip Sasuke would probably be capable of countering Kurenai's genjutsu. That's really the only thing she has going for her. Take that away, and she's a gonner. Add to that, Sasuke knows how to paralyze using his Sharingan. As soon as he gets in any sort of trouble, he can paralyze her and finish her off.

Silverblade
06-22-2007, 05:11 PM
Sasuke > Kurenai

Remeber when he countered Orochimaru's jutsu by just going emo to cut himself? Even though it froze him he still managed to escape. He know how to counter genjutsu better than Naruto in the Pre Timeskip. He would copy Kurenai jutsu and just probably hit her in a blindspot with chidori. (i hate sasuke and im not a fan boy)

Trey
06-23-2007, 12:38 PM
Well, Sasuke only seemed capable of freezing Sai, not anyone else he faced. Or maybe it was because he didn't try.

Yeah, PostTS Sasuke would probrably handle Kurenai; Orochimaru most likely trained him to deter high level genjutsu like the kind Kurenai uses.

yondaimehokage16
06-23-2007, 01:40 PM
Well, Sasuke only seemed capable of freezing Sai, not anyone else he faced. Or maybe it was because he didn't try.

Yeah, PostTS Sasuke would probrably handle Kurenai; Orochimaru most likely trained him to deter high level genjutsu like the kind Kurenai uses.

high level to itachi that's like gennin style genjutsu lol oh sasuke my boy you have so much longer to catch up with itachi.


anyway i think we all agree post sasuke handle's kurenai.

sasuke vs.kakashi.


i pick kakashi he has more experience with the sharingan and also has the mks much more jutsu than sasuke much smarter and more experience plus all he has to do is hit sasuke with the mks sussuno and it's over.

unnoted
06-23-2007, 02:37 PM
I side with Kakashi. Kakashi has more experience and probably more knowledge on the sharingan. Kakashi has more experience that Sasuke and the last the we are sure Kakashi knows how to fight a sharingan user like him.

Code
06-23-2007, 03:15 PM
Alright, new subject:

PreTS Sasuke Vs Kurenai, who'd win?

I think Kurenai would, her genjutsu is too much for Sasuke to handle.

Sharingan > Genjutsu.

Although I'd like to think Kurenai isn't a Jounin strictly based on that.

Nexus
06-23-2007, 03:32 PM
I say that Sasuke would win over Kakashi. Sasuke's Sharingan is better than Kakashi's and he's lightning fast plus he probably has other things up his sleeve that we have yet to see since training with a Sannin. Here's a good one:

- Gai vs. Itachi

kidmac1
06-23-2007, 03:36 PM
Here's a good one:

- Gai vs. Itachi


???

Itachi would still win even if gai doesn't have to look in has eyes. He could still catch him with the ring. :D

Or he could just fight him with taijutsu and ninjutsu:D

MikeyM1979
06-23-2007, 04:16 PM
I say that Sasuke would win over Kakashi. Sasuke's Sharingan is better than Kakashi's and he's lightning fast plus he probably has other things up his sleeve that we have yet to see since training with a Sannin. Here's a good one:

- Gai vs. ItachiI'm not so sure about Sasuke's Sharingan being better than Kakashi's. Sure, Sasuke was born with it, and is a real Uchiha, a genius at that, but I don't think it's as powerful as Kakashi's at the moment. We've only seen Sasuke force people into his realm/go into people's minds, and paralyze people with just a look. From what we've seen, Kakashi can't do any of those two. But what good would they be to Sasuke if he seriously fought Kakashi? Kakashi has the MS, and a butt load more experience. I believe in terms of speed, they're both right at the same level now, or maybe Sasuke edges him out by a bit. In terms of taijutsu, that's hard to say. Sasuke was never known as a slouch in that department, but Kakashi is the rival of Konoha's best taijutsu user. For a reason, I must assume. It terms of jutsu's, well, Kakashi has tons to choose from, while I'm sure Sasuke has mainly snake jutsu's and fire jutsu's, along with lightning attacks. But we've seen that Kakashi tires out very quickly if he relies on too many large jutsu's. We don't know how long Sasuke can last under similar conditions now. I deciding factor, I think, would be Kakashi's MS. I think Kakashi will find himself in trouble against Sasuke, and he'll end the battle with MS. Assuming, you know, they're fighting in a serious manner. Then again, who's to say Sasuke couldn't just paralyze Kakashi and have his way with him? Or enter his mind and rape him there? But then Sasuke would do something like that if he knew that Kakashi had the MS, which he doesn't. And I don't think Kakashi knows that Sasuke is now capable of entering people's minds, and paralyzing them through his Sharingan. It's funny how Kakashi's been surpassed by all three of his former students in one way or another, yet in a serious fight, he'd beat all of them.

Sasuke's speed/reflexes/certain Sharingan abilities > Kakashi's
Naruto's stamina/chakra capacity/kyuubi mode > Kakashi's
Sakura's brute strength/ability to heal > Kakashi's

Nexus
06-23-2007, 05:55 PM
I'm not so sure about Sasuke's Sharingan being better than Kakashi's. Sure, Sasuke was born with it, and is a real Uchiha, a genius at that, but I don't think it's as powerful as Kakashi's at the moment. We've only seen Sasuke force people into his realm/go into people's minds, and paralyze people with just a look. From what we've seen, Kakashi can't do any of those two. But what good would they be to Sasuke if he seriously fought Kakashi? Kakashi has the MS, and a butt load more experience. I believe in terms of speed, they're both right at the same level now, or maybe Sasuke edges him out by a bit. In terms of taijutsu, that's hard to say. Sasuke was never known as a slouch in that department, but Kakashi is the rival of Konoha's best taijutsu user. For a reason, I must assume. It terms of jutsu's, well, Kakashi has tons to choose from, while I'm sure Sasuke has mainly snake jutsu's and fire jutsu's, along with lightning attacks. But we've seen that Kakashi tires out very quickly if he relies on too many large jutsu's. We don't know how long Sasuke can last under similar conditions now. I deciding factor, I think, would be Kakashi's MS. I think Kakashi will find himself in trouble against Sasuke, and he'll end the battle with MS. Assuming, you know, they're fighting in a serious manner. Then again, who's to say Sasuke couldn't just paralyze Kakashi and have his way with him? Or enter his mind and rape him there? But then Sasuke would do something like that if he knew that Kakashi had the MS, which he doesn't. And I don't think Kakashi knows that Sasuke is now capable of entering people's minds, and paralyzing them through his Sharingan. It's funny how Kakashi's been surpassed by all three of his former students in one way or another, yet in a serious fight, he'd beat all of them.

Sasuke's speed/reflexes/certain Sharingan abilities > Kakashi's
Naruto's stamina/chakra capacity/kyuubi mode > Kakashi's
Sakura's brute strength/ability to heal > Kakashi's

I agree. Sasuke's speed is amazing. I doubt that Kakashi will be able to land the MS jutsu on Sasuke. If only Kakashi can see Sasuke now... he may wet his pants over how much that he has improved...

Trey
06-23-2007, 07:24 PM
Okay; the only person I've seen Sasuke paralyze is Sai. Kakashi has a superior Sharingan, so you can throw that 'Sasuke paralyzes Kakashi' theory right out the window. Also, way more battle experience and a tactical edge over Sasuke. He knows a LOT more jutsus than Sasuke as well. The only way Sasuke could win is by going CS2, and even then he'd have to deal with Kakashi's palpable speed and vast array of jutsus.

Also, Kakashi's MS dimension attack is instantaneous, it's just a matter of Kakashi's aim. So, there's no way for Sasuke to 'dodge' the dimension attack from Kakashi.

MikeyM1979
06-23-2007, 07:54 PM
Okay; the only person I've seen Sasuke paralyze is Sai.And Orochimaru. A Sannin. A legendary one. :p

Kakashi has a superior Sharingan, so you can throw that 'Sasuke paralyzes Kakashi' theory right out the window.Aside from the MS, what has Kakashi shown with his Sharingan that would trump Sasuke's Sharingan just so easily? Kakashi has been seen to not do well at all against another skilled Sharingan user. And by skilled, I mean full blooded Uchiha skilled. One of the reasons why the MS is probably the only thing that makes his Sharingan strong.

Also, way more battle experience and a tactical edge over Sasuke.He definitely has more experience, naturally. He's older. :p Tactical edge? Maybe. If Kakashi were in Sasuke's shoes during the whole Orochimaru thing, do you think Kakashi would have thought to paralyze Orochimaru? Not so sure.

He knows a LOT more jutsus than Sasuke as well.Justu's which drain his chakra and stamina like crazy. Remember when Naruto first came back? He and Sakura teamed up against Kakashi to get the bells again. By the end of it, Kakashi used too many large jutsu's, and was worn out. And you saw how in still great condition Naruto and Sakura were at the end of that. Imagine Sasuke. Tons of jutsu's aren't always that great if you don't have the stamina and chakra to use them effectively.

The only way Sasuke could win is by going CS2, and even then he'd have to deal with Kakashi's palpable speed and vast array of jutsus.Much like the only way Kakashi could win is by using MS on Sasuke. Actually connecting with it. Assuming Kakashi has gotten some practice in using it. All he was able to do was remove Deidara's arm, no? Pretty lame for a MS ability if you ask me. I'll assume he hasn't had much time to perfect it, and with Sasuke's speed, I doubt that Kakashi could use it effectively against him. Also, Sasuke's speed is right at Kakashi's level, or he's already surpassed it. So Kakashi's speed wouldn't be much of an issue for Sasuke.

Also, Kakashi's MS dimension attack is instantaneous, it's just a matter of Kakashi's aim.Which isn't always on. Deidara was proof of that.

So, there's no way for Sasuke to 'dodge' the dimension attack from Kakashi.Why not? Deidara did. Rather, he wasn't totally caught in it. Sasuke is much faster than Deidara, and would be a hard target for Kakashi to focus on. He'd end up wasting MS and chakra quite a bit trying to hit someone who's as fast, or faster than he is.

yondaimehokage16
06-23-2007, 08:02 PM
And Orochimaru. A Sannin. A legendary one. :p

Aside from the MS, what has Kakashi shown with his Sharingan that would trump Sasuke's Sharingan just so easily? Kakashi has been seen to not do well at all against another skilled Sharingan user. And by skilled, I mean full blooded Uchiha skilled. One of the reasons why the MS is probably the only thing that makes his Sharingan strong.

He definitely has more experience, naturally. He's older. :p Tactical edge? Maybe. If Kakashi were in Sasuke's shoes during the whole Orochimaru thing, do you think Kakashi would have thought to paralyze Orochimaru? Not so sure.

Justu's which drain his chakra and stamina like crazy. Remember when Naruto first came back? He and Sakura teamed up against Kakashi to get the bells again. By the end of it, Kakashi used too many large jutsu's, and was worn out. And you saw how in still great condition Naruto and Sakura were at the end of that. Imagine Sasuke. Tons of jutsu's aren't always that great if you don't have the stamina and chakra to use them effectively.

Much like the only way Kakashi could win is by using MS on Sasuke. Actually connecting with it. Assuming Kakashi has gotten some practice in using it. All he was able to do was remove Deidara's arm, no? Pretty lame for a MS ability if you ask me. I'll assume he hasn't had much time to perfect it, and with Sasuke's speed, I doubt that Kakashi could use it effectively against him. Also, Sasuke's speed is right at Kakashi's level, or he's already surpassed it. So Kakashi's speed wouldn't be much of an issue for Sasuke.

Which isn't always on. Deidara was proof of that.

Why not? Deidara did. Rather, he wasn't totally caught in it. Sasuke is much faster than Deidara, and would be a hard target for Kakashi to focus on. He'd end up wasting MS and chakra quite a bit trying to hit someone who's as fast, or faster than he is.

yes but we haven't seen sasuke do it in reality only in his genjutsu can he paralyze while itachi can do it anywhere. Now sasuke is good but can't beat kakashi that's just how it is.

As for Mikey sakura didn't surpass him cause he would state it the strength thing and healing thing lmaooooo yondaime didn't have the strength nor itachi nor jiraiya nor any of the other hokages you are saying she surpassed them all lmao00o0o please don't go on.

Trey
06-23-2007, 09:38 PM
And Orochimaru. A Sannin. A legendary one.

I'll have to re-read that chapter.

Aside from the MS, what has Kakashi shown with his Sharingan that would trump Sasuke's Sharingan just so easily? Kakashi has been seen to not do well at all against another skilled Sharingan user. And by skilled, I mean full blooded Uchiha skilled. One of the reasons why the MS is probably the only thing that makes his Sharingan strong.

Well, how come Kakashi can copy any jutsu thrown at him on the spot, but Sasuke has never fully copied any jutsu he's seen?

And the only other full blooded Uchiha in existence other than Sasuke is Itachi, and he held his own pretty good both times against Itachi.

He definitely has more experience, naturally. He's older. :p Tactical edge? Maybe. If Kakashi were in Sasuke's shoes during the whole Orochimaru thing, do you think Kakashi would have thought to paralyze Orochimaru? Not so sure.

It's purely speculation on what Kakashi would do to a hald dead, has-been Sannin.

Justu's which drain his chakra and stamina like crazy. Remember when Naruto first came back? He and Sakura teamed up against Kakashi to get the bells again. By the end of it, Kakashi used too many large jutsu's, and was worn out. And you saw how in still great condition Naruto and Sakura were at the end of that. Imagine Sasuke. Tons of jutsu's aren't always that great if you don't have the stamina and chakra to use them effectively.

It's easy to say Kakashi didn't go full out on them, and he got trumpted by a humorous trick. Do you think he would have actually closed his eyes in a serious fight? So that point is moot.

Much like the only way Kakashi could win is by using MS on Sasuke. Actually connecting with it. Assuming Kakashi has gotten some practice in using it. All he was able to do was remove Deidara's arm, no? Pretty lame for a MS ability if you ask me. I'll assume he hasn't had much time to perfect it, and with Sasuke's speed, I doubt that Kakashi could use it effectively against him. Also, Sasuke's speed is right at Kakashi's level, or he's already surpassed it. So Kakashi's speed wouldn't be much of an issue for Sasuke.

Remove an arm and send a forest leveling bomb to another dimension. :p

Seriously though, if Kakashi's aim is on, bye bye Sasuke.

Why not? Deidara did. Rather, he wasn't totally caught in it. Sasuke is much faster than Deidara, and would be a hard target for Kakashi to focus on. He'd end up wasting MS and chakra quite a bit trying to hit someone who's as fast, or faster than he is.

Well, if Sasuke can move faster than an M. Sharingan can track, he deserves not to be hit. >.>

MikeyM1979
06-23-2007, 09:45 PM
I'll have to re-read that chapter.'K.

Well, how come Kakashi can copy any jutsu thrown at him on the spot, but Sasuke has never fully copied any jutsu he's seen?You think every Sharingan user has to copy every jutsu they see automatically?

And the only other full blooded Uchiha in existence other than Sasuke is Itachi, and he held his own pretty good both times against Itachi.The first time, Kakashi was totally owned. He was in the hospital for what, three weeks after that? The second time, he did hold his own, but that was really all he could do. Survive.

It's purely speculation on what Kakashi would do to a hald dead, has-been Sannin.I know lol.

It's easy to say Kakashi didn't go full out on them, and he got trumpted by a humorous trick. Do you think he would have actually closed his eyes in a serious fight? So that point is moot.You're right about the trick, but it's still a fact that Kakashi isn't very much in a battle after he's used a few (literally) jutsu's of which, drain his chakra pretty well.

Remove an arm and send a forest leveling bomb to another dimension. :pDAMN YOU.

Seriously though, if Kakashi's aim is one, bye bye Sasuke.I agree. But there's no reason to think he's improved his aim with how busy he's been. He's shown to not have great aim against fast moving objects.

Well, if Sasuke can move faster than an M. Sharingan can track, he deserves not to be hit. >.>I know. ^_^

Code
06-24-2007, 08:06 PM
Also, way more battle experience and a tactical edge over Sasuke.
Did this save Kakuzu from Naruto?

He knows a LOT more jutsus than Sasuke as well.
That doesn't matter. Sandaime knew all the jutsu in Konoha but lost to Orochimaru's hand. Kakashi lost to Zabuza[1st Round] and Itachi. Sasuke's Shunshin is ridiculously swift, and his chakra manipulation is beyond Kakashi's.

Also, Kakashi's MS dimension attack is instantaneous, it's just a matter of Kakashi's aim. So, there's no way for Sasuke to 'dodge' the dimension attack from Kakashi.
1. Kakashi requires time to charge this. Time that Sasuke will sabotage in an instant.
2. Kakashi's aim is terrible. If Deidara was able to evade it just by shifting his head, how will he catch Shunshin Sasuke?
3. You do realize that if he misses twice his stamina depletes to a terribly low degree.

Trey
06-24-2007, 08:15 PM
Did this save Kakuzu from Naruto?

You think Kakuzu is on the same tactical plane as Kakashi? I laugh at you.

Also, Naruto has INSANE plot protection, so anything regarding him winning is pretty much moot.

That doesn't matter. Sandaime knew all the jutsu in Konoha but lost to Orochimaru's hand. Kakashi lost to Zabuza[1st Round] and Itachi. Sasuke's Shunshin is ridiculously swift, and his chakra manipulation is beyond Kakashi's.

I could of swore Zabuza had to get saved by Haku first round. Are we forgetting how Kakashi copied Zabuza's jutsu while he was doing it?


1. Kakashi requires time to charge this.

No he doesn't, it's intantaneous. If it wasn't, he wouldn't have been able to send Deidara's bomb to another dimension in time.

2. Kakashi's aim is terrible. If Deidara was able to evade it just by shifting his head, how will he catch Shunshin Sasuke?

Who's to say Kakashi has improved his aim, since I believe he said it was his first time using the MS against Deidara. Undoubtedly, he's gotten better.

3. You do realize that if he misses twice his stamina depletes to a terribly low degree.

It only takes one shot to send Sasuke to another dimension though. =]

Thanks for playing, come again.

ITzANIllUZion
06-24-2007, 11:47 PM
hrmmm well damn..i dunno who to go with....im gonna stick with kakashi...you say sasuke has super fast speed...but we really havnt see him..the only thing he did fast was get up on naruto...and i think that might have been a sushin he did..
i go with kakashi...cause we know how fast he is..his MS attack happens in an instant..just has to aim first...sauske wouldnt know what he was doing if kakashi was doing with the MS..sauske would be in shock and wondering how kakashi got it..and in that time..kakashi would have already aimed. Also..during the Gaara vs lee fight..when lee opend the gates...didnt kakashi pull out his sharingan rite when lee opend the gates..soo im sure kakashi at least knows how to open the gates...he has already used lee's little spinning thing...

im just gonna stick with kakashi

yondaimehokage16
06-25-2007, 12:00 AM
hrmmm well damn..i dunno who to go with....im gonna stick with kakashi...you say sasuke has super fast speed...but we really havnt see him..the only thing he did fast was get up on naruto...and i think that might have been a sushin he did..
i go with kakashi...cause we know how fast he is..his MS attack happens in an instant..just has to aim first...sauske wouldnt know what he was doing if kakashi was doing with the MS..sauske would be in shock and wondering how kakashi got it..and in that time..kakashi would have already aimed. Also..during the Gaara vs lee fight..when lee opend the gates...didnt kakashi pull out his sharingan rite when lee opend the gates..soo im sure kakashi at least knows how to open the gates...he has already used lee's little spinning thing...

im just gonna stick with kakashi


of course he knows how to open them he opened a thrid one when climbing the cliff in the chunnin exam arc. and yes he beats sasuke he is fast also his taijutsu is better since he rivals gai. his speed is great and like you said sasuke would be in shock that kakashi got the mks that he would already be in aonther dimension..

sasukesshadow
06-25-2007, 12:00 AM
id say sasuke would beat kakashi because first off sasuke can controll sharigan alot better then kakashi, also sasukes is prolly alot faster then kakashi because we have never seen kakashi move as fast as sasuke. also kakashi stated in one chapter that him and naruto are now about equal in strength, and we all know that sasuke can easly destroy naruto.

Code
06-25-2007, 12:08 AM
You think Kakuzu is on the same tactical plane as Kakashi? I laugh at you.
Did I compare Kakuzu and Kakashi? Don't put words in my mouth, because you said THIS:
Also, way more battle experience and a tactical edge over Sasuke.
Kakuzu is over a century old and battled the 1st Hokage. Are you telling me this automatically gives him a means to wtfpwn any younger generations?

As for tactical edges, that would be the day. Show me a scan where he demonstrated any significant tactics.

Also, Naruto has INSANE plot protection, so anything regarding him winning is pretty much moot.
You can complain all you wish. This is manga evidence; you arguing against it isn't my problem.

I could of swore Zabuza had to get saved by Haku first round. Are we forgetting how Kakashi copied Zabuza's jutsu while he was doing it?
...or are you forgetting that events even before this, the game was over once Zabuza trapped Kakashi in the Water Prison?
http://devilbox.dead.org/n/011-020/013/naruto_v02_ch013_113.jpg

No he doesn't, it's intantaneous. If it wasn't, he wouldn't have been able to send Deidara's bomb to another dimension in time.
Do you have the slightest clue what the definition of instantaneous is.
Kakashi's direct words couldn't disagree more with your statement:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m164/Fartyfartypoopypants/naruto_ch275_p19.png

Who's to say Kakashi has improved his aim, since I believe he said it was his first time using the MS against Deidara.
...and you are to say that he has? What do you have to base this on? More of your bias?

Undoubtedly, he's gotten better.
Neither you, I, nor the dog next door has any idea. There's no point bringing it up because it's all unsupported assertions.

It only takes one shot to send Sasuke to another dimension though. =]
Just like it only took "one shot" to transport Deidara, eh?

Thanks for playing, come again.
Yeah, hmmm... just remember something. You're the game machine, and I'm the player.

yondaimehokage16
06-25-2007, 12:08 AM
id say sasuke would beat kakashi because first off sasuke can controll sharigan alot better then kakashi, also sasukes is prolly alot faster then kakashi because we have never seen kakashi move as fast as sasuke. also kakashi stated in one chapter that him and naruto are now about equal in strength, and we all know that sasuke can easly destroy naruto.

well it's obivouse sasuke is ur fav that's whay you said that.

Now sasuke can control the sharingan better than kakashi lma0o0oo no he can't kakashi had 3 tomes wayyy before sasuke even had sharingan and now kakashi has mks sasuke doesnt even have that yet so you fail in saying sasuke has better control of the sharingan then kakashi. Faster than kakashi doubt it his shussin jutsu is fast not him it's 2 different things plus if anything he is at par with kakash in speed but idoubt.Kakashi is faster he can open the gates his hand sign speeg is amazing it rivals jiraiya's and itachi's. He has 1000 jutsu at his arsenal he can do all 5 elements sasuke can only use 2. last but not least his mks is enough to deal with sasuke he will be so stuned kakashi has it that by the time he tries to react kakashi would transport him to another dimension. He said naruto surpassed him but he can take naruto out in 2 sec he never said strength wise don't say things that aren't true. Sasuke easily beat naruto doubt it the time when they met after the time skip naruto froze up now naruto has developed rasenshuriken the striongest ninjutsu he can kill sasuke in a mere second. plus if naruto were to go 3 tails on his ass he would pulverise sasuke.

thanks for playing come again.

ITzANIllUZion
06-25-2007, 12:31 AM
@code- for kakashi taking time due to not having alot of chakra...that is good...but we dont know exactly how long it was taking him to gather enough. but that could be the deciding factor...

im sure kakashi would use a soldier pill..knows..he might have some..

Code
06-25-2007, 12:34 AM
@code- for kakashi taking time due to not having alot of chakra...that is good...but we dont know exactly how long it was taking him to gather enough. but that could be the deciding factor...
It doesn't matter how much time. It could very well be 30 seconds to 10 minutes. It still doesn't make it instantaneous like Yondaime's teleportation.

yondaimehokage16
06-25-2007, 12:37 AM
ight people like i said before neji vs. rock lee

ITzANIllUZion
06-25-2007, 12:39 AM
im going with lee..once he opens the gates...what is neji gonna do....stand there...

blake
06-25-2007, 09:46 AM
if ur going with pre time skp it'd be lee. but post u probably wouldnt be able to answer cause we havent seen any of them really fight

MikeyM1979
06-25-2007, 12:50 PM
id say sasuke would beat kakashi because first off sasuke can controll sharigan alot better then kakashiThat's arguable. Sasuke can paralyze and go into people's minds, along with force them into his realm, but that's all we've seen him do. Kakashi can copy jutsu's, and of course, he has MS.

also sasukes is prolly alot faster then kakashiWhere'd you get that from?

because we have never seen kakashi move as fast as sasuke.That doesn't mean he isn't capable of doing so. Also, Kakashi's second encounter with Itachi says otherwise. He moved pretty quickly. Something Sasuke was never shown to do before. Remember, Kakashi is Gai's rival, and Gai is most likely faster than both Kakashi and Sasuke.

also kakashi stated in one chapter that him and naruto are now about equal in strength, and we all know that sasuke can easly destroy naruto.I wouldn't say easily. But it's not like Sasuke has totally surpassed Kakashi in every other way.

ight people like i said before neji vs. rock leeBut, we've already done this so many times. =\

im going with lee..once he opens the gates...what is neji gonna do....stand there...I'm sure Neji has something in store for Lee when and if he opens the gates against him. He's a Hyuuga genius, and much more skilled with taijutsu than Lee. Lee's style is all about speed and power, and he's ridiculously straight forward in his attacks. The perfect enemy for a Hyuuga as skilled as Neji. Besides, Neji has already beaten Lee before, so it's not like he's the one that has anything to prove. :)

yondaimehokage16
06-25-2007, 12:52 PM
That's arguable. Sasuke can paralyze and go into people's minds, along with force them into his realm, but that's all we've seen him do. Kakashi can copy jutsu's, and of course, he has MS.

Where'd you get that from?

That doesn't mean he isn't capable of doing so. Also, Kakashi's second encounter with Itachi says otherwise. He moved pretty quickly. Something Sasuke was never shown to do before. Remember, Kakashi is Gai's rival, and Gai is most likely faster than both Kakashi and Sasuke.

I wouldn't say easily. But it's not like Sasuke has totally surpassed Kakashi in every other way.

But, we've already done this so many times. =\

I'm sure Neji has something in store for Lee when and if he opens the gates against him. He's a Hyuuga genius, and much more skilled with taijutsu than Lee. Lee's style is all about speed and power, and he's ridiculously straight forward in his attacks. The perfect enemy for a Hyuuga as skilled as Neji. Besides, Neji has already beaten Lee before, so it's not like he's the one that has anything to prove. :)


okay the hell with neji and lee


kakashi vs kisame

MikeyM1979
06-25-2007, 12:59 PM
okay the hell with neji and lee


kakashi vs kisame
Oh my.

Hmm.

Kisame at 100%? That's a tough one. If Gai had a difficult time against 30% Kisame, I can imagine Kakashi. I'd also imagine Kakashi would have a hard time aiming his MS since Kisame would most likely be in some huge wave surfing around or swimming within it. I don't know that Kakashi has any sort of defense against the Samehada, then again, it cuts through visible chakra. I don't remember if Kakashi's ever been known to show that. As for taijutsu, Kakashi is Gai's rival, so that tells me he can go head to head against any skilled taijutsu user. Kisame really hasn't shown any kind of taijutsu skills, so I'd think Kakashi can take him there, unless of course, Kisame uses that damn sword of his to block everything. >.> As for jutsu's, Kakashi has more, but as I've said dozens of times, more doesn't always mean better. It would be a great chance to copy some jutsu's from Kisame, but I wonder just what Kisame can do against Kakashi, jutsu wise, that would really get him in trouble, other than that water bubble technique. I see Kakashi using way too many large scale moves and running low on stamina and chakra. =\ His best bet would be to use Raikiri, and somehow, get Kisame dazed enough to connect with his MS. But, I still say Kisame would win.

yondaimehokage16
06-25-2007, 01:07 PM
Oh my.

Hmm.

Kisame at 100%? That's a tough one. If Gai had a difficult time against 30% Kisame, I can imagine Kakashi. I'd also imagine Kakashi would have a hard time aiming his MS since Kisame would most likely be in some huge wave surfing around or swimming within it. I don't know that Kakashi has any sort of defense against the Samehada, then again, it cuts through visible chakra. I don't remember if Kakashi's ever been known to show that. As for taijutsu, Kakashi is Gai's rival, so that tells me he can go head to head against any skilled taijutsu user. Kisame really hasn't shown any kind of taijutsu skills, so I'd think Kakashi can take him there, unless of course, Kisame uses that damn sword of his to block everything. >.> As for jutsu's, Kakashi has more, but as I've said dozens of times, more doesn't always mean better. It would be a great chance to copy some jutsu's from Kisame, but I wonder just what Kisame can do against Kakashi, jutsu wise, that would really get him in trouble, other than that water bubble technique. I see Kakashi using way too many large scale moves and running low on stamina and chakra. =\ His best bet would be to use Raikiri, and somehow, get Kisame dazed enough to connect with his MS. But, I still say Kisame would win.


I think he can fry kisame with raikiri and then use mks fight over.

While kisame maybe fast on water i don't he is without it. Plus he got the stupid sword and he blocked almost every attack gai used at the same time kakashi fought a samehada user before and faired pretty well against him by kicking his ass. As for water ninjutsu anything i have see kisame do kakashi copied from zabuza that is: water prison,water dragon jutsu,mizu bushinn,that wall he did ti protect himself agaisnt itachi. that's just about it all he would really have to do is distract kisame sneek up behind him shove a raikiri in his ass wghich would prop kill him on the spot then if by some chance he survived use mks kisame will be so stuuned he has it by the time he would react he is gonna be in another dimension

i pick kakashi barely.

Shrike
06-25-2007, 01:08 PM
Kisame would slaughter Kakashi.Simply because he has overwhelming chakra.He would outlast him.Kakashi can outsmart him,but since he doesn't have time to charge his MS,he wouldn't have a real chance to win.
If Zabuza caught him in Water Prison,and Kisame can create a lake with 30% chakra...

yondaimehokage16
06-25-2007, 01:09 PM
Kisame would slaughter Kakashi.Simply because he has overwhelming chakra.He would outlast him.Kakashi can outsmart him,but since he doesn't have time to charge his MS,he wouldn't have a real chance to win.
If Zabuza caught him in Water Prison,and Kisame can create a lake with 30% chakra...

it only takes sec for him to charge it up but interesting point with the chakra but i still say kakashi but barely.

MikeyM1979
06-25-2007, 01:17 PM
Kisame would slaughter Kakashi.Simply because he has overwhelming chakra.He would outlast him.Kakashi can outsmart him,but since he doesn't have time to charge his MS,he wouldn't have a real chance to win.
If Zabuza caught him in Water Prison,and Kisame can create a lake with 30% chakra...Indeed. Kisame's chakra level is pretty large. Kakashi would be forced to pull out all the stops right at the start.

Yon, aren't you kind of.....under estimating Kisame? :p This is the guy who stood up to Gai and his team of shinobi.

Nexus
06-25-2007, 01:30 PM
I say that Kisame will have the advantage over Kakashi simply because of his huge chakra supply (he won't hardly ever get fatigued) and we all know the Kakashi's is not that great in that department. I have one:

- Sasori vs. Jiraiya

yondaimehokage16
06-25-2007, 01:37 PM
Indeed. Kisame's chakra level is pretty large. Kakashi would be forced to pull out all the stops right at the start.

Yon, aren't you kind of.....under estimating Kisame? :p This is the guy who stood up to Gai and his team of shinobi.

i am not underestimating him because on thing kakashi ha over him is the sharingan itachi him self acknowleged before time skip that if kisame faced him he would sustin unecssery injuries and now kakashi got even better results ok mks and he can do 6 raikiri's use 5 elemts speed improved greatlye hand speed to and is much better at taijutsu than kisame. true he took on gai's team but gai does not have the mks or a sharingan nor did he use any ninjutsu he isn't as smart as kakashi def not as experienced i say that only because he fought kakuzu.

i am not underestimating him i say kakshi would win but barely plus Mikey you are kind of over rating him:D

Trey
06-25-2007, 01:40 PM
Did I compare Kakuzu and Kakashi? Don't put words in my mouth, because you said THIS:

You used Kakuzu Vs Naruto as an analogy to Kakashi Vs Sasuke, so you did in fact compare the two, whether it be concious or subconcious.

Kakuzu is over a century old and battled the 1st Hokage. Are you telling me this automatically gives him a means to wtfpwn any younger generations?

Yes it does. Also the fact that Kakashi and Shikamaru took out 3 hearts IIRC, thereby rendering 3 of his 5 elemental jutsus useless, makes it a whole lot easier for Naruto to land that RasenShuriken.

As for tactical edges, that would be the day. Show me a scan where he demonstrated any significant tactics.

Kakashi? I'll go scrounging for scans on onemanga to show some form of tactical prowess that Kakashi exhibits; we can throw scans at each other 'til the cows come home. It's still documented that Kakashi is a genius (like Sasuke is now, I know), knows thousands of jutsus which open up his options a lot, has a more advanced form of the Sharingan (and he actually uses it better than Sasuke), is competent in taijutsu, ninjutsu, genjutsu, his Raikiri trumps Sasuke's Chidori (but I don't know about Sasukie's Chidori Nagashi), the list goes on.


You can complain all you wish. This is manga evidence; you arguing against it isn't my problem.

Fair enough.

...or are you forgetting that events even before this, the game was over once Zabuza trapped Kakashi in the Water Prison?
http://devilbox.dead.org/n/011-020/013/naruto_v02_ch013_113.jpg

If memory serves me correctly, the reason Kakashi got caught in the Water Prison was because he had to save one of those Genin's (Naruto or Sasuke) sorry ass. I'll have to re-read the chapter.

Do you have the slightest clue what the definition of instantaneous is.
Kakashi's direct words couldn't disagree more with your statement:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m164/Fartyfartypoopypants/naruto_ch275_p19.png

Look'e here: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/276/07/

As you can see (look at the page before this one) the effect of the jutsu is instantaneous. Basically, it warps the field around the object, and sends it to another dimension. Good job showing me the wrong panel.

...and you are to say that he has? What do you have to base this on? More of your bias?

No, speculation.

Based on this page here: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/276/10/ (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/276/10/[/spoiler)

Kakashi obviously knows he's not proficient enough with his most potent attack, and since he knows it drains his stamina like hell, he'd be a fool not to train himself. And Kakashi is no fool.


Just like it only took "one shot" to transport Deidara, eh?

Read above.

It got the job done though.

Yeah, hmmm... just remember something. You're the game machine, and I'm the player.

The game machine that takes all your tokens.

ITzANIllUZion
06-25-2007, 05:34 PM
ok for kisame and kakashi...its going with kisame...nuff said...the only thing that will get kisame that kakashi can throw at him..would be Raikiri..or MKS..

now for the sasori vs jiraiya... are you serious...

jiraiya for the win...he is fast...rasengan will take out sasori...gamabunta...there is no contest in that fight...

katonha
06-25-2007, 08:39 PM
ok for kisame and kakashi...its going with kisame...nuff said...the only thing that will get kisame that kakashi can throw at him..would be Raikiri..or MKS..

now for the sasori vs jiraiya... are you serious...

jiraiya for the win...he is fast...rasengan will take out sasori...gamabunta...there is no contest in that fight...

Yeah, camoe on guys. Kisame would win, end it already.

Now Sasori vs Jiraiya, don't underestimate how fast Sasori is. Did you see how fast he was able to change from puppet to puppet, see:

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/rvolume31.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=29379

And trying to use Gamabunta againist a bunch of puppets, would be like trying to kill a swarm of bees with your hand, you know how that would turn out.:cool:

garra.
06-25-2007, 09:23 PM
jiraiya would win

MikeyM1979
06-25-2007, 10:14 PM
Jiraiya vs Sasori sounds like such a dull fight. :p Jiraiya would win. Easily. A Jounin and Chuunin beat Sasori, I'm pretty sure a Sannin could do away with him.

yondaimehokage16
06-25-2007, 11:13 PM
yawnss* jiraiya wins hell swamp jutsu good day sasori.

uchiha`itachi
06-26-2007, 02:16 AM
jiraiya would win but what about:

sasuke vs. juugo and suigetsu

MikeyM1979
06-26-2007, 02:20 AM
We don't know what either of them are fully capable of. Especially Suigetsu and Juugo. But, for the sake of the topic, I'd say Sasuke. Since he pretty much threatened both of them, and they both pretty much felt inferior to him. Sasuke's time at Orochimaru's base, I think gave him insight on their strengths and weaknesses. Or not. I don't really know that. But Sasuke seems to think he can kill them both, and they both seemed to have felt the same thing.

Nexus
06-26-2007, 02:58 AM
I say Sasuke since he has defeated Orochimaru (I can't picture Juugo or Suigetsu defeating someone like Orochimaru). Besides, he scared the hell out of them with true murderous intent... they'll be too scared to fight him all-out...

MikeyM1979
06-26-2007, 03:00 AM
I say Sasuke since he has defeated Orochimaru (I can't picture Juugo or Suigetsu defeating someone like Orochimaru). Besides, he scared the hell out of them with true murderous intent... they'll be too scared to fight him all-out...I get the feeling Sasuke knows how to make Juugo revert to base form. I don't see Suigetsu doing much against him either.

Watch a few people comment on how Sasuke's victory over Orochimaru was tainted. :p

Nexus
06-26-2007, 03:10 AM
I get the feeling Sasuke knows how to make Juugo revert to base form. I don't see Suigetsu doing much against him either.

Watch a few people comment on how Sasuke's victory over Orochimaru was tainted. :p

And as soon as they do, I'll state how Orochimaru fought the Sandaime Hokage at his weakest.

yondaimehokage16
06-26-2007, 07:37 AM
And as soon as they do, I'll state how Orochimaru fought the Sandaime Hokage at his weakest.

whle that maybe true sandaime had jutsu at his use and pretty much kicked the livivng shit out of oro. sasuke beat a half dead oro no jutsu in the mental realm i give sasuke credit though.

but if oro was fighting to kill sasuke lol he would easily acomplish that.


anyway suigetsu and juugo feel inferior to him so i doubt they can beat him if they team up who knows but i go with sasuke.

Shrike
06-26-2007, 10:08 AM
And as soon as they do, I'll state how Orochimaru fought the Sandaime Hokage at his weakest.

What are you trying to say?That Sarutobi would kill 3 kage level opponents?I don't think so.
If he was younger,he would have killed both himself and Orochimaru with Shiki,but otherwise,there was no chance for him to win.

AnticitizenOne
06-26-2007, 12:58 PM
What are you trying to say?That Sarutobi would kill 3 kage level opponents?I don't think so.
If he was younger,he would have killed both himself and Orochimaru with Shiki,but otherwise,there was no chance for him to win.
I have to disagree with you on that, he was revered as the god of all shinobi, the best there was, and his charka supply was almost limitless before he got old like that. I admit that he probably couldn't have defeated the first and second without the Death God Technique, but he probably could have defeated Orochimaru in his prime without using it. This of course would require Orochimaru not using Edo Tensei (which in my opinion is a BS technique because it can summon kage level opponents that cannot be destroyed without taking their souls). Of course, he may have still killed Orochimaru, but not been able to do anything about the two Kages since they were invincible. Maybe once you kill the one who used it the Edo Tensei technique wears off, this is of course pure speculation but it could happen if Sarutobi killed Orochimaru, which he probably could if he was younger in his prime.
Jiraiya vs Sasori sounds like such a dull fight. :p Jiraiya would win. Easily. A Jounin and Chuunin beat Sasori, I'm pretty sure a Sannin could do away with him.
Jounin? Are you kidding me? Chiyo-baasama was much higher level than a normal Jounin, she was a master of controlling puppets same as Sasori, plus she was retired so she doesn't have an official ninja rank. Chuunin or no, Sakura was trained by the hokage and one punch could kill a man with ease if it hits them, that's something you cannot argue with.

I still think Jiraiya would win of course, but your points are flawed and untrue :p I think Chiyo was at least at the level of a High A to Low S ranked shinobi, and without the two parent puppets Sasori would not have been killed. I'm not speculating about how Sasori comitted suicide (which he did not), but even you must admit that without those puppets he would not have been killed, because he stood still and took the blow only because they were his parents.

Shrike
06-26-2007, 01:27 PM
I have to disagree with you on that, he was revered as the god of all shinobi, the best there was, and his charka supply was almost limitless before he got old like that. I admit that he probably couldn't have defeated the first and second without the Death God Technique, but he probably could have defeated Orochimaru in his prime without using it. This of course would require Orochimaru not using Edo Tensei (which in my opinion is a BS technique because it can summon kage level opponents that cannot be destroyed without taking their souls). Of course, he may have still killed Orochimaru, but not been able to do anything about the two Kages since they were invincible. Maybe once you kill the one who used it the Edo Tensei technique wears off, this is of course pure speculation but it could happen if Sarutobi killed Orochimaru, which he probably could if he was younger in his prime.

That is basically what I said.
But he couldn't have been able to kill all 3 of them,even Shodai and Nidai's souls were not bound.
If he was younger,he would have killed Orochimaru.Orochimaru said it himself.
However,you said that he had almost "limitless chakra supply" which I see as wrong.He definitely had more chakra than someone like Kakashi,but nowhere was it stated that his chakra supply was huge.He would still run out of chakra at one point.
I agree that Edo Tensei is a bs,since it's overpowered.There should be no technique that powerful.It's simply ridiculous.

Solus Bringer
06-26-2007, 01:32 PM
Okay who would Win kimimaru with out his disease or kakashi

yondaimehokage16
06-26-2007, 01:39 PM
Okay who would Win kimimaru with out his disease or kakashi

kakashi doesn't have a diesease.

but kimimaru i don't think anyone could have beaten him execept jiraiya or itachi kakashi could to if he transported his head into another dimension. naruto could have if he landed the rasenshuriken. i am only naming people who have jutsu that are instant kill these are just about it. i would say sasuke but i havent seem all he can do looks like he knows a bunch of snake jutsu chidori shape manipulation but those would not be enough to even sctrach kimmi unles "that" jutsu is instant kill but i dont know about it yet so i will not mention sasuke. but the other i mention can.

Distortion
06-26-2007, 01:44 PM
Kimimaro vs Kakashi? Kakashi would win obviously. Sharingan + Chidori = win.

What do you mean Chidori manipulated wouldn't be enough to scratch Kimimaro? Are you kidding me? Chidori cuts through ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. Even if Kimimaro's bones with metal, it would be like a cotton ball against Chidori.

Trey
06-26-2007, 01:49 PM
Kakashi has Raikiri, Distortion. But that only helps your argument. =]

Kina
06-26-2007, 02:03 PM
Kakashi could win, he has a fair amount of speed of dogeing bone bullets and then he could tranport Kimmi's head. Insta-win.

<Kimmimaro uses 'Bone Gun'>
<Kakashi uses 'Dodge'>
< Kimmimaru uses 'Bone Sword'>
<Kakashi uses 'MS'>
<Kimmimaru has fainted>

Nexus
06-26-2007, 08:16 PM
What are you trying to say?

What I was simply trying to state was that Sasuke took the opportunity to attack Orochimaru when was "somewhat" ill, while Orochimaru decided to attack the Sandaime Hokage when he know that the Sandaime was too old to defeat him.

garra.
06-26-2007, 08:20 PM
WHAT AM I HEARING! :confused:

kakashi would be murderd by kimmaru if kimm didnt have his illness then he would definitly kill kakashi he is way faster than kakashi and a way better tiajustu user he could just simply doge chidori the only way i se kakashi beating kimmaru is if he got lucky enough to hit him with the ms thats about it kimmaru is stronger than oro he also helped kill the kazegake i dont see kakashi being or doing ethier of those things

blake
06-26-2007, 09:56 PM
how about kazekage gaara vs. sasori. do u think if sasori would have fought him instead deidara the outcome would still be the same. im sayin gaara i know sasori has the iron sand but what if gaara came out really aggressive and just engulfed sasori in sand and try to end it quick

MikeyM1979
06-26-2007, 10:02 PM
Damn. That sounds like a better fight. He still has his tailed beast? I know he can still use it's power in his attacks, at the same time keep in inside of him. I'll say Gaara. After all we've seen him do with his sand, I can't see any puppets surviving, nor can I see Sasori escaping from a crashing death.

Trey
06-26-2007, 10:08 PM
Jinchuuriki Gaara would anihilate Sasori, especially if he fought him the way he fought Kimimaro. Seriously, the puppets and Sasori would get crushed under tons of sand, no question.

garra.
06-27-2007, 01:20 AM
gaara would probley win and even if the sand didnt beat him if he turned into his tailed beast he would definitly win but do u guys think gaara would of won against dedaria if he didnt have to protect his village

yondaimehokage16
06-27-2007, 01:30 AM
gaara would probley win and even if the sand didnt beat him if he turned into his tailed beast he would definitly win but do u guys think gaara would of won against dedaria if he didnt have to protect his village

i doubt it deidara knew exactley what to do he planned th whole thing ahead of time.

i give my vote to sasori if he took out the 3rd kazegake who was the strongest of ll time in suna he would def take garra out plus he would not use shukaku remeber he cose to use his own power instead of the beasts.

garra.
06-27-2007, 02:10 AM
i doubt it deidara knew exactley what to do he planned th whole thing ahead of time.

i give my vote to sasori if he took out the 3rd kazegake who was the strongest of ll time in suna he would def take garra out plus he would not use shukaku remeber he cose to use his own power instead of the beasts.

the reason he didnt use the beast in that fight against the utimate weapon the episode before the time skip was because there was achance he might hurt his friends same thing with the fight agianst dedaria. im pretty sure if it was just gaara and sasori alone and sasori was about to take gaaras life he would turn into shukaku














and about the dedaria and gaara thing if gaara didnt have to protect the village..........exactly he planned it all from the begining if there was no people to protect then gaara wouldnt of had to move the sand and he could use that little stength left to mabye turn into shukaku?

blake
06-27-2007, 09:43 AM
i dont think gaara would have been able to beat deidara. deis fighting style is the worst match for gaara. he can keep his distance and he could just send out c4 and that could have been enough to destroy gaaras sand

MikeyM1979
06-27-2007, 05:14 PM
i dont think gaara would have been able to beat deidara. deis fighting style is the worst match for gaara. he can keep his distance and he could just send out c4 and that could have been enough to destroy gaaras sand
True. Key words being 'could have'. He didn't, and only carried enough clay for C3. But yeah, Deidara was pretty much the worse possibly enemy for Gaara to face off against. Even with his location advantage.

New fight: Kakashi vs Kisame.

yondaimehokage16
06-27-2007, 05:21 PM
True. Key words being 'could have'. He didn't, and only carried enough clay for C3. But yeah, Deidara was pretty much the worse possibly enemy for Gaara to face off against. Even with his location advantage.

New fight: Kakashi vs Kisame.

umm wealready did this one i did it remember.

but now behold kisame vs naruto

Shrike
06-27-2007, 06:11 PM
At his current level,Naruto can't fight Kisame.He would only get drowned.

Nexus
06-27-2007, 08:35 PM
I say Kisame because he has more control over his power than Naruto does and he already took out a powerful Jinchuuriki single-handedly.

blake
06-27-2007, 09:25 PM
how bout a new fight. post skip sasuke and kabuto. i think that kabuto would win. even though sasuke kinda froze him with a stare kabuto still took on a sannin and held his own. idk if sasuke could actually take on tsunade

yondaimehokage16
06-27-2007, 09:34 PM
how bout a new fight. post skip sasuke and kabuto. i think that kabuto would win. even though sasuke kinda froze him with a stare kabuto still took on a sannin and held his own. idk if sasuke could actually take on tsunade

umm last i checked tsunade was scared shitless of blood back then and he was basiclly beating on a defencless woman if she had not been scared of blood he would have his ass handed to him so no kabuto held his own against a defencless tsunade anyone can do that when a oppennet is not moving its easy to hit.

well if kabuto controls orochimaru's power he will beat sasuke his medical ninjutsu is scary plus the jutsu and power of oro sasuke would not win.
however i don't think he will control oro it will eventually take over his body.

anyway sasuke will kick his ass easily the sharingan is to much for kabuto and like i said only if he controled oro's power then maybe he would win sasuke but right now at this point in time sasuke will eat his ass alive.

Nexus
06-27-2007, 10:08 PM
Sasuke will beat Kabuto... hands down...

Distortion
06-27-2007, 10:14 PM
how bout a new fight. post skip sasuke and kabuto. i think that kabuto would win. even though sasuke kinda froze him with a stare kabuto still took on a sannin and held his own. idk if sasuke could actually take on tsunade

That same Kabuto got his ass kicked by a chibi naruto.

MikeyM1979
06-27-2007, 10:21 PM
Sasuke would walk all over Kabuto. It'd be like watching Itachi fight Sakura. =\ There's really nothing that we've seen from Kabuto that shows any way he can defeat someone like Sasuke.

AnticitizenOne
06-27-2007, 11:00 PM
Sasuke would walk all over Kabuto. It'd be like watching Itachi fight Sakura. =\ There's really nothing that we've seen from Kabuto that shows any way he can defeat someone like Sasuke.
That added to the fact that it had been at least ten to twenty years before Tsunade had done anything except rack up debt, gamble, and do who knows what traveling with Shizune. She's much better now so the fight would not go Kabuto's way at all if they fought again.

Another thing is that he maybe stood up to a Sannin on his own, but he still couldn't have won without the blood on his hands that made Tsunade freeze up. Finally, Sasuke KILLED a Sannin and fought evenly with two Akatsuki members at once, so his achievements outweigh Kabuto's by a lot.

MikeyM1979
06-27-2007, 11:27 PM
That added to the fact that it had been at least ten to twenty years before Tsunade had done anything except rack up debt, gamble, and do who knows what traveling with Shizune. She's much better now so the fight would not go Kabuto's way at all if they fought again.

Another thing is that he maybe stood up to a Sannin on his own, but he still couldn't have won without the blood on his hands that made Tsunade freeze up. Finally, Sasuke KILLED a Sannin and fought evenly with two Akatsuki members at once, so his achievements outweigh Kabuto's by a lot.I wouldn't say evenly. Maybe against Deidara, but Tobi, as I've said so many times, has been useless. So it's basically been 1 vs 1 thus far.

AnticitizenOne
06-27-2007, 11:56 PM
I wouldn't say evenly. Maybe against Deidara, but Tobi, as I've said so many times, has been useless. So it's basically been 1 vs 1 thus far.
What about the clay mines that Sasuke would have had way less of a problem without. I say Tobi has been contributing to the battle in one way or another, his own way. No matter what the condition it's still two Akatsuki members, and this is doing nothing to prove that Kabuto would defeat Sasuke because it's simply not true. Why fuss over small details when the big picture is correct?

EJ
06-27-2007, 11:56 PM
Edit: Anti got to it before I did *waves fist*

Tobi did set up some mines which made the fight somewhat harder on Sasuke

as for the fight

Sasuke easily pwns Kabuto

yondaimehokage16
06-28-2007, 12:07 AM
That added to the fact that it had been at least ten to twenty years before Tsunade had done anything except rack up debt, gamble, and do who knows what traveling with Shizune. She's much better now so the fight would not go Kabuto's way at all if they fought again.

Another thing is that he maybe stood up to a Sannin on his own, but he still couldn't have won without the blood on his hands that made Tsunade freeze up. Finally, Sasuke KILLED a Sannin and fought evenly with two Akatsuki members at once, so his achievements outweigh Kabuto's by a lot.



I'm sorry which 2 aka members is he fighting equally oh that's right he isn't it's one and he is barely fighting him and is about to get in more trouble cause of c4.

Sasuke killed a SANNIN really not that i remember oh that's right you mean the half dead oro with no jutsu at his use oh ok that's not killing a sannin let him go and kill jiraiya then post that sasuke killed a sannin cause he didn't kill a healthy one and physiclly if oro was healthy and WANTED TO KILL sasuke it would have happened you are talking about the guy who faced a 4 tailed naruto while he was ill and lived to tell the tale so ye sasuke didn't kill a sannin thats capable of doing anything.

Last but not least it's one aka tobi didn't lay a finger on him yet so please don't exaterate your posts.

but like i said before sasuke is way to skilled for kabuto at the moment however if he were to master oro's moves then we have a deffierent case on our hands.

EJ
06-28-2007, 12:14 AM
^make some sense next time

Tobi did provide some difficulty for Sasuke in his fight with Deidara, the mines which he had to evade, yeah, that

and yeah Sasuke > Kabuto

new fight:

Sasori vs. Kakuzu

yondaimehokage16
06-28-2007, 12:17 AM
^make some sense next time

Tobi did provide some difficulty for Sasuke in his fight with Deidara, the mines which he had to evade, yeah, that

and yeah Sasuke > Kabuto

new fight:

Sasori vs. Kakuzu

oh really those mines didn't touch sasuke he said equally meaning tobi was fighting to however like i said he didn't lay a finger on sasuke you shoul read more before you post cause right about now you make no sense at ALL.


kakuzu would rip sasori he knew all the elemnts and could fuse then together plus he had 5 hearts kakuzu would be to much for sasori.

EJ
06-28-2007, 12:24 AM
*yawns* yeah, yeah, he said that, I said this

anyways, Kakashi vs. Yamato

I vote Kakashi on this, 1000 jutsus and such, although Yamato could prove a decent fight

yondaimehokage16
06-28-2007, 01:16 AM
*yawns* yeah, yeah, he said that, I said this

anyways, Kakashi vs. Yamato

I vote Kakashi on this, 1000 jutsus and such, although Yamato could prove a decent fight

is there a point in making such useless fights were the outcome is clearly visiable.


i say jiraiya vs. itachi

IgniteDestiny
06-28-2007, 02:16 AM
Isn't Jiraiya vs Itachi ALSO predictable, yondaime...?

Nexus
06-28-2007, 02:28 AM
I say a fatal stalemate between the two...

yondaimehokage16
06-28-2007, 03:05 AM
i say jiraiya and itachi both die together.

MikeyM1979
06-28-2007, 05:59 AM
Hm. I remember this Jiraiya vs Itachi thing from before. Anti and I debated a little about it. I'd say Itachi would win. Orochimaru was considered Jiraiya's rival, and I think he'd beaten Jiraiya in the past. And we've seen how easily Itachi sent Orochimaru running from battle. Then again, Orochimaru does seem like someone who'd be weak against the Sharingan. Genius and all. There's no reason to think Jiraiya wouldn't easy fall to the Sharingan also considering what I just mentioned.

Kaine
06-28-2007, 07:57 AM
i believe the battle will end with both them dead.Jiraiya has proved that he knows much about itachi's weakness and plus he is a sannin.I don't think that itachi won that easy orochimaru we just saw the outcome,oro losing his hand.I belive that jiraiya will take itachi down along with him.

blake
06-28-2007, 08:11 AM
i goto say itachi. he did beat oro when he was like idk 12 and wasnt oro stronger than jiraiya because i remember jiraiya said when they fought after oro left the village he lost. and plus we havent even seen the full powers of itachi. hes one of the stronger aka members. i dont see old jiraiya beating him.

yondaimehokage16
06-28-2007, 10:45 AM
i goto say itachi. he did beat oro when he was like idk 12 and wasnt oro stronger than jiraiya because i remember jiraiya said when they fought after oro left the village he lost. and plus we havent even seen the full powers of itachi. hes one of the stronger aka members. i dont see old jiraiya beating him.

he never said oro won and he lost that was never mentoined. plus jir jutsu are extremly powerful and can kill anyone in a instant his hell swamp his frog stomach all itachi does is uses amaterasu and he is drained. igive it to both of them meaning they both die in a kick ass fight.

Tengu
06-28-2007, 12:01 PM
itachi is afraid of jiraya but not oro meaning it would be a dangerous fight bet. jiraya & itachi, i say jiraya since he knows itachis weakness and was the teacher of the 4th so he must have tought him most of his jutsus to.

next one didnt kakuza say he fought the 1st or was it the 2nd?
kakuza vs 1st/2nd

Nexus
06-28-2007, 12:03 PM
plus jir jutsu are extremly powerful and can kill anyone in a instant his hell swamp his frog stomach all itachi does is uses amaterasu and he is drained.

That's not true... Itachi used the Tsukiyomi twice that day, exploding Suiton Kage Bunshin, Genjutsu counter and the Amaterasu... He wasn't just fatigued from the Amaterasu alone... He used a MS jutsu three times that day and more... That's a lot of chakra...

MikeyM1979
06-28-2007, 04:55 PM
We haven't really seen Jiraiya do anything, though. :p Anything impressive, anyway. Not to Itachi's level. We've seen him attempt to trap Itachi and Kisame, which failed. We've seen him participate in a 3 way Sannin battle, and he failed. That's about it. While we've seen Itachi pretty much own quite a few people. Yon, there's no proof that Jiraiya has any sort of insta-kill jutsu's. Where are you getting that from? And exactly what weakness of Itachis does Jiraiya know of, or has displayed knowledge of? I hope it's not that frog stomach binding you're talking about, because Itachi and Kisame found their ways out of there just fine. Something that NO ONE should have been able to do.

Trey
06-28-2007, 05:01 PM
We haven't really seen Jiraiya do anything, though. :p Anything impressive, anyway. Not to Itachi's level. We've seen him attempt to trap Itachi and Kisame, which failed. We've seen him participate in a 3 way Sannin battle, and he failed. That's about it. While we've seen Itachi pretty much own quite a few people. Yon, there's no proof that Jiraiya has any sort of insta-kill jutsu's. Where are you getting that from? And exactly what weakness of Itachis does Jiraiya know of, or has displayed knowledge of? I hope it's not that frog stomach binding you're talking about, because Itachi and Kisame found their ways out of there just fine. Something that NO ONE should have been able to do.

Well, Itachi had Amateseru, which can burn through anythng. That's the only reason they got out, and it left Itachi drained.

In the Sannin battle, Jiraiya was drugged, therefore he wasn't anywhere near top form. It also goes to show Jiraiya has a pretty impressive chakra supply to summon Gamabunta and pull of B to A class jutsus in one battle. He also displays great chakra control, since he's able to do Rasengan (the incomplete form, mind you) with one hand, almost instantaneously.

Also, Itachi is wary of him, saying they shouldn't go after Naruto when Jiraiya is with him. So, that counts for some rep points, lol.

All in all, I think Jiraiya is the best out of the Legendary Three, and at worst on Orochimaru's level. All three are Kage-level shinobi, for sure, though.

MikeyM1979
06-28-2007, 05:11 PM
Well, Itachi had Amateseru, which can burn through anythng. That's the only reason they got out, and it left Itachi drained.I know. I'm not really arguing that Itachi wasn't drained. Still, fact is, he still was able to make it out of a jutsu that most likely no one else in the entire series would have made it out of. Besides, Amateseru wasn't the only jutsu he used which left him drained.

In the Sannin battle, Jiraiya was drugged, therefore he wasn't anywhere near top form.True. Still, how fast did he go down? Didn't Orochimaru basically knock his ass down for the count? And he was handicapped during the fight also.

It also goes to show Jiraiya has a pretty impressive chakra supply to summon Gamabunta and pull of B to A class jutsus in one battle.Well, yeah, he definitely must have a huge chakra supply to do summon a large frog like that. :p That was probably the best thing he could've done during that battle.

He also displays great chakra control, since he's able to do Rasengan (the incomplete form, mind you) with one hand, almost instantaneously.So? Tons of people show great chakra control. :) I don't really consider that to be one of his impressive traits, also considering that even Kakashi can do it.

Also, Itachi is wary of him, saying they shouldn't go after Naruto when Jiraiya is with him. So, that counts for some rep points, lol.You do know that Itachi is the type to not dive into a major battle if it isn't necessary, right? He's done that before. It's funny how a heavily handicapped Orochimaru didn't even feel any fear from Jiraiya during the Sannin fight, yet he was totally trumped by Itachi lol.

All in all, I think Jiraiya is the best out of the Legendary Three, and at worst on Orochimaru's level. All three are Kage-level shinobi, for sure, though.
That's interesting to know. :)

NEW FIGHT!

Orochimaru, at his best his best, during part 1, before his fight against Sarutobi (since I think that's when he was at his best) vs Jiraiya after the Itachi/Kisame confrontation.

Shrike
06-28-2007, 05:17 PM
Well, Itachi had Amateseru, which can burn through anythng. That's the only reason they got out, and it left Itachi drained.

There is one though, though, which everyone seems to expel-that Amaterasu could have been used on Jiraiya himself.
For some reason, Itachi did not want to do that.

MikeyM1979
06-28-2007, 05:19 PM
There is one though, though, which everyone seems to expel-that Amaterasu could have been used on Jiraiya himself.
For some reason, Itachi did not want to do that.Just like for some reason Sasuke hasn't used paralyzing genjutsu on Deidara. Go figure. =\

Shrike
06-28-2007, 05:26 PM
Just like for some reason Sasuke hasn't used paralyzing genjutsu on Deidara. Go figure. =\

Of course. Plot no Jutsu always wins.
But I think that we will see in this next chapter that Sasuke actually did use a genjutsu on Dei.
One more example of Plot no Jutsu - after Sasuke and Naruto fight, Zetsu apeared and only commented on how "It is becoming interesting". He could have captured Naruto then.
I don't think Zetsu's own goals don't mix well with the Akatski goal, and that is why that sucked.
Some will say that he wasn't his target, but does it really matter?

Anyway,let;s start a new battle:

Tayuya vs pre Ts Sasuke

Trey
06-28-2007, 05:27 PM
I know. I'm not really arguing that Itachi wasn't drained. Still, fact is, he still was able to make it out of a jutsu that most likely no one else in the entire series would have made it out of. Besides, Amateseru wasn't the only jutsu he used which left him drained.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I was just elaborating that the only way they got out was with probrably the most powerful jutsu in Naruto.

True. Still, how fast did he go down? Didn't Orochimaru basically knock his ass down for the count? And he was handicapped during the fight also.

Actually, it was more 2v2 than 2v1. Orochimaru wasn't doing shit without Kabuto. And it was basically a summon battle, so individual skills were overlooked during that point in time.

Well, yeah, he definitely must have a huge chakra supply to do summon a large frog like that. :p That was probably the best thing he could've done during that battle.

Yeah, I'll agree with that. I think he said he was 60% going into that battle, I can't remember. Still, it takes more than Naruto's regular supply of chakra to summon Gamabunta, so Jiraiya has some good chakra reserves.

So? Tons of people show great chakra control. :) I don't really consider that to be one of his impressive traits, also considering that even Kakashi can do it.

Okay, it still takes a great amount of chakra control to do it. I would venture to say it takes more chakra control than walking on water, or using chakra to enhance your strikes (Tsunade, Sakura). I do concede that it is speculation on hard it is to do, but it is A-ranked, so it can't be cake to accomplish.

You do know that Itachi is the type to not dive into a major battle if it isn't necessary, right? He's done that before. It's funny how a heavily handicapped Orochimaru didn't even feel any fear from Jiraiya during the Sannin fight, yet he was totally trumped by Itachi lol.

2v1 isn't really a major fight. And it was in a secluded area in the woods. And I think Itachi said something like 'he'll kill/defeat us' in a head up confrontation, but I can't remember. I do know he said something relevant that dissuaded him from apprehending Naruto.


NEW FIGHT!

Orochimaru, at his best his best, during part 1, before his fight against Sarutobi (since I think that's when he was at his best) vs Jiraiya after the Itachi/Kisame confrontation.

I'll get back to you on this one.

Shrike
06-28-2007, 05:35 PM
NEW FIGHT!

Orochimaru, at his best his best, during part 1, before his fight against Sarutobi (since I think that's when he was at his best) vs Jiraiya after the Itachi/Kisame confrontation.

Doh, I missed this a moment before -.-
Anyhow, I am going with Orochimaru. Edo Tensei is overpowered. Jiraiya would be hardly able to take Oro himself, not to mention 3 Kage level opponents more.

MikeyM1979
06-28-2007, 05:37 PM
That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I was just elaborating that the only way they got out was with probrably the most powerful jutsu in Naruto.I thought the most powerful jutsu was the wind rasengan.

Actually, it was more 2v2 than 2v1. Orochimaru wasn't doing shit without Kabuto. And it was basically a summon battle, so individual skills were overlooked during that point in time.At some points, yes. It did seem like 2 vs 1.


Okay, it still takes a great amount of chakra control to do it. I would venture to say it takes more chakra control than walking on water, or using chakra to enhance your strikes (Tsunade, Sakura). I do concede that it is speculation on hard it is to do, but it is A-ranked, so it can't be cake to accomplish.Still doesn't take away from the fact that many people have great chakra control, so that part of Jiraiya becomes less impressive in the mix of things.

2v1 isn't really a major fight. And it was in a secluded area in the woods. And I think Itachi said something like 'he'll kill/defeat us' in a head up confrontation, but I can't remember. I do know he said something relevant that dissuaded him from apprehending Naruto.It is a major one when it's against a non-handicapped Sannin (which makes Orochimaru look bad lol).

I'll get back to you on this one.Damn!

yondaimehokage16
06-28-2007, 06:18 PM
Of course. Plot no Jutsu always wins.
But I think that we will see in this next chapter that Sasuke actually did use a genjutsu on Dei.
One more example of Plot no Jutsu - after Sasuke and Naruto fight, Zetsu apeared and only commented on how "It is becoming interesting". He could have captured Naruto then.
I don't think Zetsu's own goals don't mix well with the Akatski goal, and that is why that sucked.
Some will say that he wasn't his target, but does it really matter?

Anyway,let;s start a new battle:

Tayuya vs pre Ts Sasuke

is that even nessicery plot no jutsu sasuke wins wth or with out it.


post kakashi vs. oro when he fought sarutobi now this is a fight.

MikeyM1979
06-28-2007, 06:21 PM
Orochimaru would win. He can summon Hokages, which I highly doubt someone like Kakashi can handle. If Orochimaru summons them, it's pretty much 3 vs 1. Hell, even if it were just 1 vs 1, Kakashi still doesn't have much of a chance. The only thing he has going for him is his MS, and he hasn't show very good accuracy with it. Sannins should never go down to Jounins. =\

Nexus
06-28-2007, 09:13 PM
Orochimaru would win this one... Orochimaru has far too many advanced jutsus under his belt and he doesn't get fatigued like Kakashi does. Besides, Kakashi's afraid of Orochimaru, which would give Orochimaru the edge.

yondaimehokage16
06-28-2007, 09:42 PM
Orochimaru would win this one... Orochimaru has far too many advanced jutsus under his belt and he doesn't get fatigued like Kakashi does. Besides, Kakashi's afraid of Orochimaru, which would give Orochimaru the edge.

ah but that was before the timeskip but i agree oro in healthy form is to much for kakashi.