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View Full Version : Itachi v.s. Jiraya argument needs to come to an end


itachiisback
05-25-2008, 07:04 AM
This argument needs to be put to rest.

Itachi the child prodigy, at a mere age of 11 years old destroyed Orochimaru with but a kunai and genjutsu. In fact, Itachi let the poor sucker live to tell the tale.
Itachi at 11 years old pawned Deidara. Itachi at 11 years of age was a member of Akatsuki. Itachi at the age of 11-13 threatened the elders of the village for the safety of Sasuke.

In fact Sandaime even says - " A shinobi that can take on Orochimaru does not exist in this village at this moment " - after this quote Itachi appears in Konoha. Clearly Sandaime was thinking of Itachi. Itachi >>>>>>>>>> Orochimaru. There is no doubt about this. If you deny this then you are ignorant and biased.

You say Itachi was not trying to kill Orochimaru while you can say the same the other way around. Itachi was playing Orochimaru like a fool. Itachi did not even kill him in the end.

Now, we've been through Itachi's character and background story. Clearly, his initial interest in coming to Konoha was to check on the safety of his younger brother and to warn the elders that he still lives to protect Sasuke.

Itachi never wanted any harm done to Konoha's nins. You should be able to see that Itachi is playing around with the elite jounin of konoha.

In fact, the only reason he even took out the MS was to show Kakashi the power of a true Uchiha - this shows pride not weakness. Itachi did not need to end the fight so quickly using MS... 2 - 3 moves of his ninjutsu or 1 move of his genjutsu would have done it, kakashi would have been dead. Another point, "Why didn't he kill me... he could have if he wanted to..." Itachi did NOT even kill Kakashi under tsukyomi.

And i even see people saying Kakashi and Itachi are on the same league. Bitch, please.
If Kakashi can't take Kakuzu 1 on 1 and is on par with Hidan than he has no chance in hell against Itachi who can potentially take both Kakuzu and Hidan together.

Now i am a fan but i am basing all this information on true manga facts, i am not biased. I am not saying that Itachi is the stronger or whatever. In fact, he admitted that if he had EMS he could defeat Madara. Therefore, we can say that the only thing dictating the power levels of Madara from Itachi is the EMS Madara has.

Now for the Jiraya debate.

NOw i ask you one question. ...

In a fight of Itachi against Orochimaru and Tsunade... who would win?
Being the prodigy and the destroyer of a whole clan of elite level ninja, Itachi with his unimaginable speed wins. Even the sharingan is unable to catch his speed, his jutsu speed included.

Itachi who pawns Orochimaru in 2 panels moves onto the weaker Tsunade. THis is no match. Itachi wins.

Now what's to say that he can't take on the whole sannin crew?
This is not a farfetched claim since many have been said to be able to do so.

Itachi was given the position of Minato, in fact the very throne Itachi was sitting on symbolized Minato's position in the fight against Kyuubi.
Itachi may very well be > = to Minato who is undoubtedly > Jiraya.

Itachi being the hero of Konoha would never harm the toad sannin who lives by the live of fire.

Itachi's whole life is a lie. I am willing to bet this was one of the many lies Itachi pulled with Kisame to get out of the situation and go somewhere peaceful and rest or w/e,,,

It's not something new that Itachi lies and mostly with Kisame. Kisame even questions why he has to avoid the fight. Kisame clearly knows what Itachi is capable of. In fact, i'm sure Itachi has kicked Kisame's ass at one time.

Itachi had no intention in capturing Naruto, he never did. He came, he saw, he conquered. Too bad, Gai was a second away from joining the Jiraya vs Itachi/Kisame duel. Who knows how many anbu were following GAI....

Itachi did the smart thing. He knew Kisame would not listen if he said anything else...

Itachi is > sannin.

THANK YOU

SharinganWarrior
05-25-2008, 08:05 AM
Nahhh... Jiraiya was a far greater shinobi than Itachi was..

itachiisback
05-25-2008, 08:08 AM
Nahhh... Jiraiya was a far greater shinobi than Itachi was..

Well, then clearly you need to read the latest chapters in which it gives that Itachi has always been alive to protect Konoha and Sasuke.
There would be no reason for Itachi to even fight Jiraya who is all about the will of fire. Itachi has always been a liar, his whole life has been a lie, a genjutsu.

Itachi >>> Jiraya//

SharinganWarrior
05-25-2008, 08:15 AM
Off course there hasnt been a reason for them to fight.. But still you made a thread sayin' Itachi would defeat Jiraiya in battle, if they had to fight..

Im just sayin'.. Nahhh.. Jiraiya was far greater shinobi than Itachi was..

itachiisback
05-25-2008, 08:20 AM
Off course there hasnt been a reason for them to fight.. But still you made a thread sayin' Itachi would defeat Jiraiya in battle, if they had to fight..

Im just sayin'.. Nahhh.. Jiraiya was far greater shinobi than Itachi was..

Provide reasons for your fallacious claim.

Don't just tell me this and that. Provide reasons why Jiraya is a greater shinobi than Itachi. In what terms?

If you have anything to back up your claim that is, i will happily refute your points - insignificant as they may be.

SharinganWarrior
05-25-2008, 08:35 AM
All you've posted is Itachi accomplishments.. And those are surely impressive..

Itachi defeated Orochimaru with ease.. But as Orochimaru countless times has showed us, that he has a great weakness against gejutsu.. He fell right into it against Itachi and Sasuke.. He didnt learn.. Jiraiya has seen two of Itachi's MS jutsus, and I'll assume that he would be wise enough not to fall into Itachi's genjutsu..

Jiraiya speed and brute strenght is far greater than Itachi's, in hemit-mode (we saw that against Pain).. And the frog-genjutsu doesnt need eye contact, and seems to be just as powerful as Itachi's Tsukuyomi.. Im not even sure the frog-genjutsu can be heard..

Im pretty confident that Jiraiya would defeat Itachi..

itachiisback
05-25-2008, 08:44 AM
All you've posted is Itachi accomplishments.. And those are surely impressive..

Itachi defeated Orochimaru with ease.. But as Orochimaru countless times has showed us, that he has a great weakness against gejutsu.. He fell right into it against Itachi and Sasuke.. He didnt learn.. Jiraiya has seen two of Itachi's MS jutsus, and I'll assume that he would be wise enough not to fall into Itachi's genjutsu..

Jiraiya speed and brute strenght is far greater than Itachi's, in hemit-mode (we saw that against Pain).. And the frog-genjutsu doesnt need eye contact, and seems to be just as powerful as Itachi's Tsukuyomi.. Im not even sure the frog-genjutsu can be heard..

Im pretty confident that Jiraiya would defeat Itachi..

It's been said that Jiraya has never been very able with genjutsu. If the sannin genius, Orochimaru, pretty much got owned in a genjutsu... what much chance does someone like Jiraya have?

Speed and brute strength to not signify ones overall abilities. True skill, however does. In every battle Itachi's been in, you can see him quickly rid of his enemies in but a few panels. In Konoha he took on a whole a group of elite jounin and destroyed them literally. He destroyed the Uchiha clan, called to be the most elite and feared clan.

If these accomplishments to not dictate his superiority to Jiraya then i don't know what does.
Sure Hermit mode is impressive. But Itachi has the best genjutsu, ninjutsu and taijutsu in the whole series.

Susano-o as broken as it is, is unavoidable and invincible with unlimited defense and offense.

Amaterasu burns in an instant. If Itachi looks at Jiraya, Jiraya would be turned to ashes,... this the power and efficiency of Amaterasu.


I hate to think what will happen to Jiraya under tsukyomi whcih happens in an instant.

sheik
05-25-2008, 10:40 AM
Itachi even said himself that Jaraiya would have destroyed him after him and kisame tried to take Naruto.

Jaraiya would tear Itachi to pieces, especially in Hermit Mode. Itachi may have pwned Oro but Jaraiya is on a comepletely different level than Oro would have ever been.

Jaraiya was on a level right under being a God. I believe if there wasn't 6 bodies of Pein then Jaraiya would have obliterated him.

HoboAssassin
05-25-2008, 10:44 AM
Yeah pretty much from what we've seen with Susano and the other 3 MS jutsus, I'm sure Itachi could beat Jiraiya in a 1v1. It was shown that Itachi escaped out of Jiraiya's frog stomach, which was supposedly inescapable. And I'm also positive that Itachi has greater speed than Jiraiya, for Jiraiya isn't known for speed, taijutsu, or genjutsu--he's known for his variety of toad jutsus. But even then, Itachi has a good and extremely powerful arsenal of jutsus match, or are even superior than Jiraiya's. In addition to that Itachi has greater genjustu, which would rape Jiraiya in a second, greater speed, and probably equal taijutsu----overall Itachi's got the edge on Jiraiya. I love Jiraiya and all, he was one of my fav characters, but he wouldn't have beat Itachi in a fight.

mrpiimpnn
05-25-2008, 10:45 AM
This argument needs to be put to rest.

Itachi the child prodigy, at a mere age of 11 years old destroyed Orochimaru with but a kunai and genjutsu. In fact, Itachi let the poor sucker live to tell the tale.
Itachi at 11 years old pawned Deidara. Itachi at 11 years of age was a member of Akatsuki. Itachi at the age of 11-13 threatened the elders of the village for the safety of Sasuke.

In fact Sandaime even says - " A shinobi that can take on Orochimaru does not exist in this village at this moment " - after this quote Itachi appears in Konoha. Clearly Sandaime was thinking of Itachi. Itachi >>>>>>>>>> Orochimaru. There is no doubt about this. If you deny this then you are ignorant and biased.

You say Itachi was not trying to kill Orochimaru while you can say the same the other way around. Itachi was playing Orochimaru like a fool. Itachi did not even kill him in the end.

Now, we've been through Itachi's character and background story. Clearly, his initial interest in coming to Konoha was to check on the safety of his younger brother and to warn the elders that he still lives to protect Sasuke.

Itachi never wanted any harm done to Konoha's nins. You should be able to see that Itachi is playing around with the elite jounin of konoha.

In fact, the only reason he even took out the MS was to show Kakashi the power of a true Uchiha - this shows pride not weakness. Itachi did not need to end the fight so quickly using MS... 2 - 3 moves of his ninjutsu or 1 move of his genjutsu would have done it, kakashi would have been dead. Another point, "Why didn't he kill me... he could have if he wanted to..." Itachi did NOT even kill Kakashi under tsukyomi.

And i even see people saying Kakashi and Itachi are on the same league. Bitch, please.
If Kakashi can't take Kakuzu 1 on 1 and is on par with Hidan than he has no chance in hell against Itachi who can potentially take both Kakuzu and Hidan together.

Now i am a fan but i am basing all this information on true manga facts, i am not biased. I am not saying that Itachi is the stronger or whatever. In fact, he admitted that if he had EMS he could defeat Madara. Therefore, we can say that the only thing dictating the power levels of Madara from Itachi is the EMS Madara has.

Now for the Jiraya debate.

NOw i ask you one question. ...

In a fight of Itachi against Orochimaru and Tsunade... who would win?
Being the prodigy and the destroyer of a whole clan of elite level ninja, Itachi with his unimaginable speed wins. Even the sharingan is unable to catch his speed, his jutsu speed included.

Itachi who pawns Orochimaru in 2 panels moves onto the weaker Tsunade. THis is no match. Itachi wins.

Now what's to say that he can't take on the whole sannin crew?
This is not a farfetched claim since many have been said to be able to do so.

Itachi was given the position of Minato, in fact the very throne Itachi was sitting on symbolized Minato's position in the fight against Kyuubi.
Itachi may very well be > = to Minato who is undoubtedly > Jiraya.

Itachi being the hero of Konoha would never harm the toad sannin who lives by the live of fire.

Itachi's whole life is a lie. I am willing to bet this was one of the many lies Itachi pulled with Kisame to get out of the situation and go somewhere peaceful and rest or w/e,,,

It's not something new that Itachi lies and mostly with Kisame. Kisame even questions why he has to avoid the fight. Kisame clearly knows what Itachi is capable of. In fact, i'm sure Itachi has kicked Kisame's ass at one time.

Itachi had no intention in capturing Naruto, he never did. He came, he saw, he conquered. Too bad, Gai was a second away from joining the Jiraya vs Itachi/Kisame duel. Who knows how many anbu were following GAI....

Itachi did the smart thing. He knew Kisame would not listen if he said anything else...

Itachi is > sannin.

THANK YOU

hmmm, some of it is really true, but Itachi definitely cannot defeat Madara because why wouldn't he have already done it ;o?, Also, Jiraiya was not being serious against Itachi when they "Fought" In his toads stomach.You are biased because all you are saying is that Itachi is the greatest, although I agree that he can defeat a lot of people in Konoha but he cannot, and will not ever been able to defeat the toad sage, and claiming he could defeat all three sanin at the same time is just an exaduration of your wild fantasy.

SharinganWarrior
05-25-2008, 10:56 AM
It's been said that Jiraya has never been very able with genjutsu. If the sannin genius, Orochimaru, pretty much got owned in a genjutsu... what much chance does someone like Jiraya have?

Jiraiya wasnt good at usin' genjutsu, never said that.. Said the frog-genjutsu.. I'll say it once, Orochimaru, the genuis, got caught in genjutsu twice.. Thats his weakness.. He was never good against any genjutsu attacks.. Itachi's genjutsu needs eye contact.. Gai proved that you could fight an Uchiha without havin' to look into their eyes..

Speed and brute strength to not signify ones overall abilities. True skill, however does. In every battle Itachi's been in, you can see him quickly rid of his enemies in but a few panels. In Konoha he took on a whole a group of elite jounin and destroyed them literally. He destroyed the Uchiha clan, called to be the most elite and feared clan.

True.. Speed and brute strenght doesnt explain a shinobi's overall skill, but its just as important as any skill, look at Gai.. Flashy moves, isnt always the greatest.. All the opponent Itachi has fought, didnt have any greater knowledge of Itachi genjutsu abillities, Kakashi didnt nor did Deidara.. Therefore they were easily defeated.. The second time Kakashi fought Itachi, he wasnt caught by Itachi genjutsu, (Kakashi's clone off course, but he knew better than get caught himself again)

If these accomplishments to not dictate his superiority to Jiraya then i don't know what does.
Sure Hermit mode is impressive. But Itachi has the best genjutsu, ninjutsu and taijutsu in the whole series.

We've seen Itachi create a waterclone, not that impressive, genjutsu off course and a coulpe of fireballs, nothing Jiraiya couldnt do (not genjutsu).. Not to mention Jiraiya's awesome summonin' skills.. We havent seen Itachi summon anything..

Susano-o as broken as it is, is unavoidable and invincible with unlimited defense and offense.

Indeed a great defense, but isnt without cost.. How long can Itachi maintain it? Probably not for long..

Amaterasu burns in an instant. If Itachi looks at Jiraya, Jiraya would be turned to ashes,... this the power and efficiency of Amaterasu.

Just like Susanoo, it isnt without cost.. It consumes a lot of chakra.. And there must be a delay before it makes contact otherwise Sasuke would been hit.. There are several ways for Jiraiya to avoid it.. During the last coulpe of chapters, its shown that the Amaterasu was burning on the top of the ground, not burnin' through (at least at any speed), so a mudwall or whatever its called should prevent Jiraiya from being hit..

I hate to think what will happen to Jiraya under tsukyomi whcih happens in an instant.

Once again I doubt Jiraiya would make eye contact with Itachi.. Tsukyomi isnt worth bullcrap, if there isnt any eyecontact..

Im not sayin' Itachi isnt one of most powerful character in Naruto, but Im sayin' Jiraiya would beat Itachi, if came to that..

itachiisback
05-25-2008, 12:16 PM
Itachi even said himself that Jaraiya would have destroyed him after him and kisame tried to take Naruto.

Jaraiya would tear Itachi to pieces, especially in Hermit Mode. Itachi may have pwned Oro but Jaraiya is on a comepletely different level than Oro would have ever been.

Jaraiya was on a level right under being a God. I believe if there wasn't 6 bodies of Pein then Jaraiya would have obliterated him.

What you fail to grasp is the complexity of such a character as Itachi.
His whole life had been a lie, in fact a genjutsu directed at the audience and everyone else in the manga. Kishi portrayed his character beautifully.

To think that Kisame would question his motive of avoiding the battle, there was definitely something up.

Itachi obliterated Orochimaru, he two paneled him. Now Orochimaru had been the genius of the sannin. Everytime Orochimaru and Jiraya fought, Orochimaru would ALWAYS come out on top. Orochimaru had been the genius of the sannin and the one who gave the name sannin such good praise.

Sannin are all on nearly the same level. You say Jiraya is on a complete level above Oro. Where's your proof? Just looking at the pretty pictures proves nothing, absolutely nothing. You have to learn to understand the story and the way characters act.

hmmm, some of it is really true, but Itachi definitely cannot defeat Madara because why wouldn't he have already done it ;o?, Also, Jiraiya was not being serious against Itachi when they "Fought" In his toads stomach.You are biased because all you are saying is that Itachi is the greatest, although I agree that he can defeat a lot of people in Konoha but he cannot, and will not ever been able to defeat the toad sage, and claiming he could defeat all three sanin at the same time is just an exaduration of your wild fantasy.

Itachi cannot defeat Madara but its been stated that the difference in their power is defined by the EMS Madara has. When they supposedly fought, how was Itachi being any more serious than Jiraya? In fact, Jiraya attacked Itachi when he had his back turned on him.

Jiraiya wasnt good at usin' genjutsu, never said that.. Said the frog-genjutsu.. I'll say it once, Orochimaru, the genuis, got caught in genjutsu twice.. Thats his weakness.. He was never good against any genjutsu attacks.. Itachi's genjutsu needs eye contact.. Gai proved that you could fight an Uchiha without havin' to look into their eyes..

To implement and control genjutsu or even to escape it, you must be smart. This is stated in the manga that genjutsu is a form of ninjutsu that only incredibly intelligent nins can use.

JIraya has been noted to be the idiot of the sannin. If genjutsu worked on the GENIUS of the sannin... i don't see how it wouldn't work on Jiraya. In fact, in their encounter, Jiraya looked directly into Itachi's eyes - he didn't know what was up. If Itachi wanted to, he could have Tsukyomi'd or amaterasu'd him right then and there. Don't tell me Jiraya is faster than light speed and can defend himself against amaterasu. These techniques happen in an instant and to be able to even hold some resistance against it, as you said, you must be an Uchiha.

In fact Itachi says, "Only an Uchiha can hope to defeat me".

Gai's trick does not work. Itachi uses finger genjutsu, he could point his fingers anywhere he wants.




True.. Speed and brute strenght doesnt explain a shinobi's overall skill, but its just as important as any skill, look at Gai.. Flashy moves, isnt always the greatest.. All the opponent Itachi has fought, didnt have any greater knowledge of Itachi genjutsu abillities, Kakashi didnt nor did Deidara.. Therefore they were easily defeated.. The second time Kakashi fought Itachi, he wasnt caught by Itachi genjutsu, (Kakashi's clone off course, but he knew better than get caught himself again)

Itachi's CLONE, 30%. In fact, Itachi wasn't even on Akatsuki's side. It's no wonder Itachi didn't put up much of a fight. You need to understand that Itachi is a good guy, he was trying to hinder Akatsuki's forces.

Even Kakashi said he stands no chance against Itachi.




We've seen Itachi create a waterclone, not that impressive, genjutsu off course and a coulpe of fireballs, nothing Jiraiya couldnt do (not genjutsu).. Not to mention Jiraiya's awesome summonin' skills.. We havent seen Itachi summon anything..

...we haven't even seen a 100% Itachi but we have seen a 100% Jiraya. Itachi was that much overpowered fro Kishi to have him killed by a disease.
Itachi is the master of sharingan. Kakashi has a 1000 jutsu copied with 1 sharingan. Imagine Itachi. Itachi in the kurenai fight showed nothing of his abilities. He was playing them like a fool. In fact no one has made Itachi go as far to using his more powerful jutsu since they get defeated in teh genjutsu stage or weak ninjutsu stage. Itachi is that skilled. With a kunai he is able to kill kage level opponents. With a kunai and genjutsu he was able to destroy Orochimaru.

Again, you need to understand the complexity of the character. The pretty pictures don't just do.
In the Sasuke encounter, Itachi used MS in the start since Itachi wanted to die in teh first place.




Indeed a great defense, but isnt without cost.. How long can Itachi maintain it? Probably not for long..

He could maintain it if he had not had a disease and did not want to die in the first place.





Just like Susanoo, it isnt without cost.. It consumes a lot of chakra.. And there must be a delay before it makes contact otherwise Sasuke would been hit.. There are several ways for Jiraiya to avoid it.. During the last coulpe of chapters, its shown that the Amaterasu was burning on the top of the ground, not burnin' through (at least at any speed), so a mudwall or whatever its called should prevent Jiraiya from being hit..


Hermit mode takes a hell of a time to load, same with the frog-song. What we know is that Itachi finishes his fights in jet speed. Jiraya would be caught in genjutsu before he even knew of it.

Nothing can stop amaterasu, it burns everything. In an instant it burns as hot as the sun. Read the databook Kishi made.


Once again I doubt Jiraiya would make eye contact with Itachi.. Tsukyomi isnt worth bullcrap, if there isnt any eyecontact..

Im not sayin' Itachi isnt one of most powerful character in Naruto, but Im sayin' Jiraiya would beat Itachi, if came to that..

there we go, hope you understand.

Mr.Magical_Flying_TwixBar
05-25-2008, 12:40 PM
Jaraiya was far better in my opinion, itachi relied too much on his MKS

itachiisback
05-25-2008, 02:20 PM
Jaraiya was far better in my opinion, itachi relied too much on his MKS


Far better in what way?


In terms of overall fighting prowess, Itachi takes this by a mile.

SharinganWarrior
05-25-2008, 03:43 PM
@Itachiisback..

We dont agree, which character is best shinobi.. I dont think Jiraiya will get caught by eye-genjutsu - you do and base most of your arguments on that Jiraiya will get caught.. And Itachi actually said.. Well you can see for yourself.. http://s223.photobucket.com/albums/dd171/MSharingan21/?action=view&current=Genjutsu.jpg

You think Itachi has greater speed and strenght than Jiraiya - I dont..

You state if Itachi wasnt sick, he could maintain Sasunoo as long as he wanted to (That a "what if").. Theres no proof that thats the case.. I serviously doubt he cant.. Just AM and TS, just MS in generel consumes a lot of chakra.. Itachi couldnt use MS at the 30 % clone-thingy.. So I think its reasonable to assume that he cant maintain SA, or use AM and TS as much as he wanted to..

Jiraiya entered hermit-mode in matter of seconds (The bull Pain summoned was punched, kicked or whatever out of wall before the dust had settled..).. So doesnt take time to load..

I havent read Kishi's databook, so all I can do is explain what I've seen in the manga.. AM didnt burn through the ground, so I'd assume that AM didnt pack the same heat as the sun.. (So there a contradiction, I guess)

There we go, hope you understand (sarcasm).. Jiraiya>Itachi...

Relentless
05-25-2008, 04:52 PM
Some good points, but i gotta ask this

If Itachi was so superior, why didnt he try and take out Pain?? seeing as he like Jman loved the Leaf...

Namikaze85
05-25-2008, 05:07 PM
That's very nice and all but 2 things 1 there was never an argument and 2 itachi is a shit face loser comapred to jiraiya in accompishments and power pein admitted to jiraiya beign more skillful and stronger had it not been for his secret jiraiya would ahve killed the al a man who was chosen by madara to lead aka because he is most powerful itachi wasn't chosen as the leader. Jiraiya was also chosen as hoakge twice as for orochiamru big deal he is weak now that we have seen what jiraiya coudl do and believe me he had more up his sleeve everyone sees how inferior oro was to jiraiya now go to sleep ya little fan boy.

Nexus
05-25-2008, 05:08 PM
Well, based on what Itachi stated, both him and Jiraiya would die together at the most, but based on what Madara stated about only a person with the Sharingan can beat a match for an Uchiha, so it seems that Itachi does have a chance at defeating Jiraiya. Honestly, I can't picture how Jiraiya would be able to avoid Susanoo since it's not of the physical plane.

Namikaze85
05-25-2008, 05:17 PM
Well, based on what Itachi stated, both him and Jiraiya would die together at the most, but based on what Madara stated about only a person with the Sharingan can beat a match for an Uchiha, so it seems that Itachi does have a chance at defeating Jiraiya. Honestly, I can't picture how Jiraiya would be able to avoid Susanoo since it's not of the physical plane.

First of whog vies a fuk what madara said FACT IS SHODAIME WHOOPED HIS ASSS and he didn't ahve sharingan he perhaps means a common strong ninja woudl have a lot of chance orochiamru and deidara are good examples they are powerful but not that powerful.

People like jiraiya,shodaime,sarutobi,mianto,nidaime are leaders and chosen for hoakge as a reason.

These guys would kill nearly anyone if not anyone jiraiya lost only because he figured out the secret to late pein still barely won he lsot 4 times and 1 body permentley he admitted to jiraiya being stronger pein was a mna who was chosen by amdara to lead akak if itachi was stronger then he woudl be chosen.


Susuanoo wouldn't come out because jiraiya would kill him before that as shown in the manga he needed to use both tsukuyomia dn amaterasu before he uses susanoo that's how it is and even logcialy it's like that.


First he got to use tsukuyomi before he uses amaterasu then susano after amaterasu so it wouldn't be right to use susanoo before weaker attacks he has never shown the ability to use amaterasu before tsukuyomi meaning susanoo isn't any different.

As for what itachi said he said that without knwoing of hermit mode and at best he would just killh im and go down together through hermit mode into that and it's a wrap.

Jiraiya sis tronger end of story itachi has nothing that he can use to save his ass from hellswamo even he does get past toad stomach.

Hellswamp is still an issue heis katon are crap comapred to the oens jiraiya uses.

Jiraiya power is more then enough to blind him for good one kick or punch is all it takes in hm and lights out for itachi he is way smrter then itachi and with the toads brain even more smarter.

Jiraiya is packing much more heat then itachi.

itachiisback
05-25-2008, 05:29 PM
@Itachiisback..

We dont agree, which character is best shinobi.. I dont think Jiraiya will get caught by eye-genjutsu - you do and base most of your arguments on that Jiraiya will get caught.. And Itachi actually said.. Well you can see for yourself.. http://s223.photobucket.com/albums/dd171/MSharingan21/?action=view&current=Genjutsu.jpg

You think Itachi has greater speed and strenght than Jiraiya - I dont..

You state if Itachi wasnt sick, he could maintain Sasunoo as long as he wanted to (That a "what if").. Theres no proof that thats the case.. I serviously doubt he cant.. Just AM and TS, just MS in generel consumes a lot of chakra.. Itachi couldnt use MS at the 30 % clone-thingy.. So I think its reasonable to assume that he cant maintain SA, or use AM and TS as much as he wanted to..

Jiraiya entered hermit-mode in matter of seconds (The bull Pain summoned was punched, kicked or whatever out of wall before the dust had settled..).. So doesnt take time to load..

I havent read Kishi's databook, so all I can do is explain what I've seen in the manga.. AM didnt burn through the ground, so I'd assume that AM didnt pack the same heat as the sun.. (So there a contradiction, I guess)

There we go, hope you understand (sarcasm).. Jiraiya>Itachi...

Contradicting statements are not pretty, stop using them.


Some good points, but i gotta ask this

If Itachi was so superior, why didnt he try and take out Pain?? seeing as he like Jman loved the Leaf...

Why would he need to?
Remember that his only family was the Akatsuki. Killing pain would get him no where. I don't know where you are going with this kind of logic...

First of whog vies a fuk what madara said FACT IS SHODAIME WHOOPED HIS ASSS and he didn't ahve sharingan he perhaps means a common strong ninja woudl have a lot of chance orochiamru and deidara are good examples they are powerful but not that powerful.

People like jiraiya,shodaime,sarutobi,mianto,nidaime are leaders and chosen for hoakge as a reason.

These guys would kill nearly anyone if not anyone jiraiya lost only because he figured out the secret to late pein still barely won he lsot 4 times and 1 body permentley he admitted to jiraiya being stronger pein was a mna who was chosen by amdara to lead akak if itachi was stronger then he woudl be chosen.


Susuanoo wouldn't come out because jiraiya would kill him before that as shown in the manga he needed to use both tsukuyomia dn amaterasu before he uses susanoo that's how it is and even logcialy it's like that.


First he got to use tsukuyomi before he uses amaterasu then susano after amaterasu so it wouldn't be right to use susanoo before weaker attacks he has never shown the ability to use amaterasu before tsukuyomi meaning susanoo isn't any different.

As for what itachi said he said that without knwoing of hermit mode and at best he would just killh im and go down together through hermit mode into that and it's a wrap.

Jiraiya sis tronger end of story itachi has nothing that he can use to save his ass from hellswamo even he does get past toad stomach.

Hellswamp is still an issue heis katon are crap comapred to the oens jiraiya uses.

Jiraiya power is more then enough to blind him for good one kick or punch is all it takes in hm and lights out for itachi he is way smrter then itachi and with the toads brain even more smarter.

Jiraiya is packing much more heat then itachi.


Please, don't post in my thread. Your blatant screams of bias puts me off mood to even debate about this.

Jiraya is not faster than Itachi, even in hermit mode.

SharinganWarrior
05-25-2008, 05:59 PM
Contradicting statements are not pretty, stop using them.

Heh.. Whatever..


Why would he need to?
Remember that his only family was the Akatsuki. Killing pain would get him no where. I don't know where you are going with this kind of logic...

Because Itachi was good guy (Pain is a bad and want to destroy Itachi hold dear, thats why..).. He definitely didnt consider any member of the Akatsuki as family.. I matter of fact, I think every single Akatsuki member hate each other, probably besides Konan and Pain..


Please, don't post in my thread. Your blatant screams of bias puts me off mood to even debate about this.

Yeah, Nami, you can seem a bit arrogant at times.. But I totally agree with what you're sayin' here...

Jiraya is not faster than Itachi, even in hermit mode.

Sure he is.. Even if Jiraiya wasnt faster than Itachi, Jiraiya would still levels above Itachi..

itachiisback
05-25-2008, 06:01 PM
Heh.. Whatever..




Because Itachi was good guy (Pain is a bad and want to destroy Itachi hold dear, thats why..).. He definitely didnt consider any member of the Akatsuki as family.. I matter of fact, I think every single Akatsuki member hate each other, probably besides Konan and Pain..




Yeah, Nami, you can seem a bit arrogant at times.. But I totally agree with what you're sayin' here...



Sure he is.. Even if Jiraiya wasnt faster than Itachi, Jiraiya would still levels above Itachi..

okay.



........

kenneth20748
05-25-2008, 06:05 PM
Well just ask this question then, do you think if Hanzou fought against Itachi, do you think he would have gotten Sannin title. Sannin is just a name given by Hanzou to only three people he faught.If there were others who challenged him, he more than likely had given more Sannin titles out.

On the defense of Orochimaru, you can't say Orochimaru has gotten stronger since then and now (the time he died, supposedly since his snake was alive after the whole ordeal) Is Itachi good enough against Edo Tensi (did I spell it right?) That would be 3 Hokage and a Sannin who has immortal life against a child prodigy. That's another question you can ask yourself.

If Itachi when against those odds then I think Itachi would lose.

itachiisback
05-25-2008, 06:08 PM
Well just ask this question then, do you think if Hanzou fought against Itachi, do you think he would have gotten Sannin title. Sannin is just a name given by Hanzou to only three people he faught.If there were others who challenged him, he more than likely had given more Sannin titles out.

On the defense of Orochimaru, you can't say Orochimaru has gotten stronger since then and now (the time he died, supposedly since his snake was alive after the whole ordeal) Is Itachi good enough against Edo Tensi (did I spell it right?) That would be 3 Hokage and a Sannin who has immortal life against a child prodigy. That's another question you can ask yourself.

If Itachi when against those odds then I think Itachi would lose.

The IFs dont prove anything. Sandaime single handedly took on 2 edo tensei.

Itachi would undoubtedly do the same.
You people heavily underestimate Itachi.

Besides, one swipe of Susano-o and any number of opponents get obliterated.

Namikaze85
05-25-2008, 06:25 PM
@iatchisnumber1fanboy

Yes i knwo you don't want me to post because i ahve put up an argument you can't counter now stfu and listen buddy boy.

I have no problem against itachi anyone here who knows me knows itachi is without queston my favorite uchiha and is in my top 5.

But you can't argue facts jiraiya is packing more heat end of story.

As for who is faster pein came at him with quick speed jiraiya caught him easily kicked him in the face and blinded him then even pein seeing this said"very impressive" jiraiya is faster then itachi in hermit mode or at least equal power wise he stronger then itachi even without hermit mode that's fact.

In hermit mode one punch and itachi is blind he has never shown to be durable at all so it's no problem.

Jiraiya without a doubt knows about the mks even chiyo knew and she is from the sand most old and powerful shinobi know about mks and like he said"madara havng been defeated by the 1st is something known to all" and i am pretty sure he knows of mks if he knows how that fight went down. Not to mention he knew of madara summoning kyuubi well he "predicted it" but byt hen it was obvious.

Jiraiya easily would get arund itachi's sharingan genjutsu as when they first met he easily took the genjutsu off the girl itachi used it on and said" so you used the sharingan genjutsu huh pretty cowardly to do that by trying to separate me from naruto.

Orochimaru isn't that hard to beat he need 2 hoakges that can't be killed unless using death god plus himself to barely beat a 70 year old out of date sarutobi. And he said he onyl won cause he is to old. Oro has the weakeness to genjutsu everyone has one and his is genjutsu which would lead to his downfall.

Jiraiya's weakness is woman rofll so unless itachi plan to bring the girls over from the FHM magazine then it's hopeless.

Jiraiya is smarter,more experienced,stronger,faster(in hm faster).


He is packing more end of story.

Itachi and kisame both ran itachi used his second strongest attack on jiraiya's not strongest move.


Ultimate rasengan,way better katon, rasengan,summons,his unpentratable sheild,frogsong,toad stomach,hell swamp etc etc lion,s mane etc etc.


He has way more versatlity then itachi last but not least pein said who was stronger between him and jiraiya. and pein was chosen by madara to lead akatsuki if itachi was stronger he would have been chosen.

Jiraiya is greater and more powerful then itachi.

itachiisback
05-25-2008, 06:26 PM
@iatchisnumber1fanboy

Yes i knwo you don't want me to post because i ahve put up an argument you can't counter now stfu and listen buddy boy.

I have no problem against itachi anyone here who knows me knows itachi is without queston my favorite uchiha and is in my top 5.

But you can't argue facts jiraiya is packing more heat end of story.

As for who is faster pein came at him with quick speed jiraiya caught him easily kicked him in the face and blinded him then even pein seeing this said"very impressive" jiraiya is faster then itachi in hermit mode or at least equal power wise he stronger then itachi even without hermit mode that's fact.

In hermit mode one punch and itachi is blind he has never shown to be durable at all so it's no problem.

Jiraiya without a doubt knows about the mks even chiyo knew and she is from the sand most old and powerful shinobi know about mks and like he said"madara havng been defeated by the 1st is something known to all" and i am pretty sure he knows of mks if he knows how that fight went down. Not to mention he knew of madara summoning kyuubi well he "predicted it" but byt hen it was obvious.

Jiraiya easily would get arund itachi's sharingan genjutsu as when they first met he easily took the genjutsu off the girl itachi used it on and said" so you used the sharingan genjutsu huh pretty cowardly to do that by trying to separate me from naruto.

Orochimaru isn't that hard to beat he need 2 hoakges that can't be killed unless using death god plus himself to barely beat a 70 year old out of date sarutobi. And he said he onyl won cause he is to old. Oro has the weakeness to genjutsu everyone has one and his is genjutsu which would lead to his downfall.

Jiraiya's weakness is woman rofll so unless itachi plan to bring the girls over from the FHM magazine then it's hopeless.

Jiraiya is smarter,more experienced,stronger,faster(in hm faster).


He is packing more end of story.

Itachi and kisame both ran itachi used his second strongest attack on jiraiya's not strongest move.


Ultimate rasengan,way better katon, rasengan,summons,his unpentratable sheild,frogsong,toad stomach,hell swamp etc etc lion,s mane etc etc.


He has way more versatlity then itachi last but not least pein said who was stronger between him and jiraiya. and pein was chosen by madara to lead akatsuki if itachi was stronger he would have been chosen.

Jiraiya is greater and more powerful then itachi.

Are you still here? i thought i told you to leave. Your arguments are too stupid to counter.

Mr.Magical_Flying_TwixBar
05-25-2008, 06:27 PM
one more point to add to the arugment... they're both dead, what does it matter..

NeoKakarott023
05-25-2008, 06:30 PM
Itachi was a much better shinobi than Orochimaru, that will be questioned by no one. I dig Itachi, and Sasuke, but here is the honest fact and truth. I can't say that Itachi would defeat Jiraiya in a battle, because both gave their lives to honor Konoha. Jiraiya gave and did whatever was required, and Itachi the same including destroying an evil Uchiha Clan for the good of all of Konoha. He gave his life to his brother and thats great, but Jiraiya fought many more battles, of threats to Konoha than Itachi. Itachi was destroyed at 4 from the sight of war, Jiraiya spent too much of his life attempting to save Orochimaru, but in doing that he was often the savior of Konoha. I think Itachi could have possibly defeated Tsunade in a one on one, but I don't know about Jiraiya, I love em both I'd say they'd both fight to the death, or Itachi would lose. Itachi has never (at one time) faced the Rin'nengan, though he lost Jiraiya did a helluva job, I don't think Itachi could have lasted as long. He was already sick with a disease before the Sasuke fight, and took medication to complete his mission.

Vengeance
05-25-2008, 06:43 PM
this belongs in vs. Itachi wins he throws all his fights.

Matthekage
05-25-2008, 06:51 PM
this belongs in vs.

I was thinking much the same thing v'. Same with the "Sannin or Pein" thread that has sprung up.

Namikaze85
05-25-2008, 06:58 PM
V makes the best point period roflll vs thread please.

AND yesh itachis fanboy go cry somewhere else fact is jiraiya would beat him plain and simple yes my points are to stupid ocoming froma guy who makes a thread uses text size 7 and red so everyone actually reads the crap he wrote.

ANyways itachi is strong but jiraiya was stronger he ran from jiraiya once and he wasn't as strong as ein and pein said jiraiya was the stronger shinobi between them itachi is genius naturally but hardworkers like jiraiya kick the shit of geniu's like itachi.

@V itachi threw no fights he didn't throw this one either because you have no proof to say madara is telling the truth aboutt his even if he is big deal he fought sasuke with not full strength he still fought him with all he can give and won but by defualt settings rofll lost.


p.s. itachisback you pretty much failed before i got here so yeah perhaps you shoudl leave again.

Kenganan
05-25-2008, 11:23 PM
Though Itachi really was a great shinobi, I don't think he would be able to stand up to the ninjutsu powerhouse that is Jiraiya. I don't know where you are getting the facts that Itachi is somehow completely faster than Jiraiya especially when he's packing hermit mode. Maybe he is at using hand signs, but from a Manga fighting stand point we have seen Itachi move very little in his fights, and doesn't have blinding speed like that of a gate user. If anything, they are both even. Though if you can show me a page when someone quotes Itachi for having blinding (speed as in running etc. not hand seal.) I will gladly retract that statement. Itachi, has also proven that he needs his Sharingan to do most of his higher damaging attacks, with every single one of them taking their tole on his body physically and probably mentally as well. Meanwhile, Jiraiya who's argueably one of the greatest shinobi, has seen Itachi's eye techniques, so being the battle hardened shinobi that he is, he would more then likely stay away from making any eye contact with him what so ever, much like how Gai defend against the sharingan.


Onto jutsu's. Jiraiya was able to almost sink a gigantic summoning of Orochimaru's, even when his chakra was completely tarnished by Tsunade's drug, could you imagine the size and depth he could create when he meant business and wasn't held down by the restriction to preform chakra correctly, not to mention the fact that it would take little effort to sink something of a human's stature rather than a twenty story summoning. Itachi does have Susano, but evading something that you can see coming like a swing of the sword wouldn't be to hard, especially since it's so large. The only reason Itachi probably had success against Orochimaru's hydra, was because of the fact that it was larger than susano thus an easier target to connect with a hit. To say Itachi's genjutsu completely out matches that of Jiraiya's is also false. The hermit mode frog song, would be more then enough to put down Itachi, and it doesn't require the user to actually see the target either, making it much harder to escape than an eye technique.

When it comes down to it, Jiraiya just has a more complete arsenal than Itachi's. Don't get me wrong, Itachi's a badass and to some shinobi he would just wreck face. But let's look at the fact that Jiraiya is also great and has some of the more powerful jutsu's in the shinobi world. If anything, it would end in a draw (as Itachi stated in the manga). Though given the fact that he has more battle experience undoubtedly, has seen Itachi's eye techniques, and has both offensive and defensive ninjutsu's as well as summonings, I think it would be to much for our Sharingan friend.

akuryuken
05-26-2008, 12:13 AM
well i have read some comments that say "oro was the genius of the sannin" and thats a true but can oro take 3 pain bodies like Jiraya did?
another question the guy that made this thread was joking when he say that itachi > 3 sannins? because i guess yes

Avian
05-26-2008, 01:38 AM
Jiraiya pawn Itachi as much as...

Namikaze85 pawned itachisback

XD XD XD

Distortion
05-26-2008, 09:06 AM
I don't see any way that Jiraiya could beat Susanoo (again had Itachi not magically caught some kind of disease and was healthy, seriously Kishimoto is annoying as fuck... killing awesome characters with a disease thats some bs...). I'm sure Jiraiya would win but not with ease.


Itachi is faster than Jiraiya's base form.. dunno about hermit mode though.

Jiraiya has brute strength over him.
Itachi has genjutsu over him.
Itachi also has some nice ninjutsu, but Jiraiya is packing more heat in that department.
Taijutsu wise Itachi can more then match up to Jiraiya considering he's pretty damn good in it and he has the sharingan.
Jiraiya has experience over him though.......its hard to decide.

Avian
05-26-2008, 09:16 AM
In addition we dont know what other jutsu Jiraiya can dish out with Hermit Mode cause he was only able to use it for 2 chapters and with Ma and Pa fighting along its basically 3 against 1 meaning even if Jiraiya got caught with MS he can be brought back by either Ma or Pa with "Kai".

So yeah complete domination for Jiraiya.

Distortion
05-26-2008, 09:29 AM
In addition we dont know what other jutsu Jiraiya can dish out with Hermit Mode cause he was only able to use it for 2 chapters and with Ma and Pa fighting along its basically 3 against 1 meaning even if Jiraiya got caught with MS he can be brought back by either Ma or Pa with "Kai".

So yeah complete domination for Jiraiya.

You can't break MS so easily, you need the bloodline to even take it slightly.

Namikaze85
05-26-2008, 09:47 AM
You can't break MS so easily, you need the bloodline to even take it slightly.

I am sure jiraiya knows all about mks hell chiyo sama knew and she isn't even from konoha.

Plus member when they first et naruto the secret to breaking it is to fill the space up with something powerful notice how cs2 broke it but base sasuke could not same with naruto his chakra when they met started to fill up the entire room both kisame and itachi were like wtf is this and rite away cut it away from him.

I bet my ass any day that anything that fills the spcae up in tsukuypmi will break it in which case it's easy for jiraiya since his freakignt oads can preety much do anything hard if they can find an invisible person easily this shoudl be nthing.

But like you said and i agree jiraiya wouldn't win that easily but it would take less then against pein.


and yes kishi is mad fucking annoying first a guy like kimi sickness,jiraiya 6 vs 1,itachi sickness,

I mean these guys i noticed are super powerful but because they are so powerful kishi has to give them disadvantages to take them out since none of the guys who fought them could 1 on 1 or in jiraiya's case 6 on1 but he lost an arm.:mad:

Avian
05-26-2008, 09:49 AM
^but still breakable. It'll be tough but with endless knowlegde of the two toads i think they have something up thier sleeves to break it. They can create genjutsu im sure they'll have some kind of counter aswell.

Namikaze85
05-26-2008, 10:02 AM
^but still breakable. It'll be tough but with endless knowlegde of the two toads i think they have something up thier sleeves to break it. They can create genjutsu im sure they'll have some kind of counter aswell.

Yep pretty much as for amaterasu it's easy to counter make him use it on frog stomach or he can use dotan to split the ground and buh bye.

But itachi would survive long in their fight not when j hits hm.

Shrike
05-26-2008, 10:25 AM
This should be in the VS thread.

Anyway, it would be a close call. I don't know if Itachi would fall for Frog Song first or Jiraiya for Amaterasu or Susano-O.
It's that simple, whoever lands the first heavy hit wins.

Distortion
05-26-2008, 12:07 PM
This should be in the VS thread.

Anyway, it would be a close call. I don't know if Itachi would fall for Frog Song first or Jiraiya for Amaterasu or Susano-O.
It's that simple, whoever lands the first heavy hit wins.

Exactly but as usual someone is riding Jiraiya like a camel and giving attributes to him as if he was all that great. Jiraiya by himself sucks, thats why he has summonings assistant him, atleast Susanoo isn't thinking for Itachi. Itachi is much cooler than Jiraiya was.. atleast he didn't get his arm ripped off lmao... while Itachi faced over 20 vs 1 Jiraiya only had 6 opponents, 6 opponents which he supposely defeated before but couldn't do again lmaooo. Pathetic.

Kenganan
05-26-2008, 02:00 PM
Yea, Jiraiya lost an arm. And Itachi lost both of his fucking eyes -_-... Jiraiya, wasn't great? As far as 99% of this board we all know he's one of the LEGENDARY Sannin. That title goes much further than the "Uchiha Massacrer." Kisame himself never met Jiraiya personally yet he still knew who he was and what power he held toward the point where he knew he couldn't fight him. As far as we know, Itachi's stigma of the Uchiha killer only wen't as far as the walls of Konoha while the Sannin were praised like that of Kage around shinobi civilization.

It was also noted that Itachi had help with the killing off his clan, by none other than Uchiha Madara who is/was perhaps the strongest shinobi of that era who knew the ins and outs of the Sharingan to help prepare Itachi for their ambush.

Also, to say Jiraiya by himself sucks, is a complete slap in the face. You use what you have at your disposal, and Jiraiya did that time and time again, just like any shinobi would. It wasn't until his very last battle with Pein, until he pulled out all of his cards, while Itachi has focused his fighting time and time again around his disease riden Sharingan. Kind of funny how a guy who's 53 years old and is on his way towards his decline, was praised by Pein, saying he wouldn't have won if it was not for his secret. Let's see Itachi try and use his Tysukomi on six different skilled targets, with one being able to reincarnate over and over, then when Itachi's eye balls explode from all of the flowing blood, we can laugh and go, oops.

And by the way. When you are fighting six opponents who have the jump on you, not to mention the strongest eye technique in the world, it's far harder to kill those six that are prepared to fight rather than ambushing a bunch of people trying to sleep, who were out classed from the two attackers to begin with.

Namikaze85
05-26-2008, 02:18 PM
Exactly but as usual someone is riding Jiraiya like a camel and giving attributes to him as if he was all that great. Jiraiya by himself sucks, thats why he has summonings assistant him, atleast Susanoo isn't thinking for Itachi. Itachi is much cooler than Jiraiya was.. atleast he didn't get his arm ripped off lmao... while Itachi faced over 20 vs 1 Jiraiya only had 6 opponents, 6 opponents which he supposely defeated before but couldn't do again lmaooo. Pathetic.

ass hole rofllll:D @ staff i am playign with d becaus ehe knows why i said that :mad: i hate u d :p

Btw when did itachi fight 20 vs 1 i don thin he did.

No way itachi wasn't cooler then jiraiya itachi was madara's bitch jiraiya worked for no 1 in fact he told both those eldars to go fuk themselves.

Ahh ok i'll say what i wanted to itachi is strong jiriya is strong both when plot no jutsu isn't herbing them could take out just about anyone they would fight "just about"

Itachi was cheated with sickness jiraiya was cheated against 6 vs 1

jiraiya ran out of time because he didn't find out the secret quick enough but only right befor ehe died that itself is an accomplishment since nobody ever found it out or ever made pein go that serious as zetsu said.

Jiraiya is just packing more then itachi that's just about all there is to it.


edit: oh d you mean the massacre thing with 20 lol good one but he had help and for all we know both hima nd madara took out a few at once but then again those uchiha were fodder ninja not pein itachi was the strongest in his clan already plus madara aint' no old gezzers stopping itachi.

Oh and i think jiriaya said the bodies were guys he fought from the past not 6 on 1 lol 1 by 1 like the summoner moron attacked him after he left toad mountain etc etc.

Shrike
05-26-2008, 02:23 PM
Yea, Jiraiya lost an arm. And Itachi lost both of his fucking eyes -_-...

Itachi didn't loose his eyes in a battle. I don't see what were you trying to pull other than defending Jiraiya through meaningless chatter.

Jiraiya, wasn't great? As far as 99% of this board we all know he's one of the LEGENDARY Sannin. That title goes much further than the "Uchiha Massacrer." Kisame himself never met Jiraiya personally yet he still knew who he was and what power he held toward the point where he knew he couldn't fight him. As far as we know, Itachi's stigma of the Uchiha killer only wen't as far as the walls of Konoha while the Sannin were praised like that of Kage around shinobi civilization.

Chiyo said "Oh, so this is the child who killed his own family?". So, no, it went over Konoha's walls easily. The second greatest clan ever to be obliterated like that will surely be a big news.
Of course, Jiraiya's status as the legendary Sannin is greater. Ibiki was afraid of Orochimaru, just because he is legendary. Kakashi as well. Yet Kakashi fought Itachi with almost no fear. This is because Itachi is young.

It was also noted that Itachi had help with the killing off his clan, by none other than Uchiha Madara who is/was perhaps the strongest shinobi of that era who knew the ins and outs of the Sharingan to help prepare Itachi for their ambush.

Indeed.
Killing Uchiha clan isn't a big deal since we never saw important and strong shinobi from that family before. So, meh, it's just cool that he did it, and makes him interesting, not almighty.

Also, to say Jiraiya by himself sucks, is a complete slap in the face. You use what you have at your disposal, and Jiraiya did that time and time again, just like any shinobi would. It wasn't until his very last battle with Pein, until he pulled out all of his cards, while Itachi has focused his fighting time and time again around his disease riden Sharingan. Kind of funny how a guy who's 53 years old and is on his way towards his decline, was praised by Pein, saying he wouldn't have won if it was not for his secret. Let's see Itachi try and use his Tysukomi on six different skilled targets, with one being able to reincarnate over and over, then when Itachi's eye balls explode from all of the flowing blood, we can laugh and go, oops.

Nonsense. You are saying that the fact that Jiraiya is 53 makes him weaker then he was when he was Itachi's age?
Let me show you how much of a bullshit that statement is - all three of the Sannin lost to a man called Hanzou. The man whom Pain took down singlehandedly. And what age were they? Right, they were at least, if not older then Itachi. Itachi took down a Sannin when he was just 11, don't forget such mudding of the Sannin name.
Also, Tsukiyomi on one Pain would be deadly for all of them, remember that what one sees, other see as well.
And such Jiraiya fanboying is really childish, not much unlike what I see here everyday.

And by the way. When you are fighting six opponents who have the jump on you, not to mention the strongest eye technique in the world, it's far harder to kill those six that are prepared to fight rather than ambushing a bunch of people trying to sleep, who were out classed from the two attackers to begin with.

Yeah, a lot harder.
I don't think Itachi can win against Pain. Dunno how would he defend against Susano-O, but just the summons would overwhelm his chakra capacity. I think.


If Itachi was healthy, then he might be stronger then Jiraiya. Or may not. That is how you should normally take it and THEN start debating. Not choosing one side right away.

Namikaze85
05-26-2008, 03:59 PM
Itachi didn't loose his eyes in a battle. I don't see what were you trying to pull other than defending Jiraiya through meaningless chatter.



Chiyo said "Oh, so this is the child who killed his own family?". So, no, it went over Konoha's walls easily. The second greatest clan ever to be obliterated like that will surely be a big news.
Of course, Jiraiya's status as the legendary Sannin is greater. Ibiki was afraid of Orochimaru, just because he is legendary. Kakashi as well. Yet Kakashi fought Itachi with almost no fear. This is because Itachi is young.



Indeed.
Killing Uchiha clan isn't a big deal since we never saw important and strong shinobi from that family before. So, meh, it's just cool that he did it, and makes him interesting, not almighty.



Nonsense. You are saying that the fact that Jiraiya is 53 makes him weaker then he was when he was Itachi's age?
Let me show you how much of a bullshit that statement is - all three of the Sannin lost to a man called Hanzou. The man whom Pain took down singlehandedly. And what age were they? Right, they were at least, if not older then Itachi. Itachi took down a Sannin when he was just 11, don't forget such mudding of the Sannin name.
Also, Tsukiyomi on one Pain would be deadly for all of them, remember that what one sees, other see as well.
And such Jiraiya fanboying is really childish, not much unlike what I see here everyday.



Yeah, a lot harder.
I don't think Itachi can win against Pain. Dunno how would he defend against Susano-O, but just the summons would overwhelm his chakra capacity. I think.


If Itachi was healthy, then he might be stronger then Jiraiya. Or may not. That is how you should normally take it and THEN start debating. Not choosing one side right away.

Whata post i expected nothing less from a itachi fanboy roflll j/p bro.


Anyway i like them both everyone knows that but i go with jiraiya simply cause he is packing more then itachi and is packing years of experience on his ass beside the fact that he outclasses him in just about everything. accept base speed i guess.

@Kegan don't be so pissed at Dist. he said those lines to try and piss me off he always does this but we both know the neji would pwn anyone right D:D


ehh i'm done here.

Miburo
05-26-2008, 05:03 PM
Just because the debate section sucks oh-so-bad now-a-days...

This is pretty easy. When dealing with manga shit, if someone is stated to be stronger and nothing is ever stated or shown to show that the original statement is false (Logical contradictions don't count; so the whole Itachi>Oro, who is around equal to Jiraya is a moot point), then the original statement should be assumed to be true. After all, the writer of the manga knows who's stronger since he's the one who is making all this stuff up. He's the only credible authority, and at the very least knows more than any of us.

Therefore, if Itachi states that he cannot defeat Jiraya and there hasn't been anything stated that shows that he was lying or mistaken, then the logical assumption would be that he cannot defeat Jiraya. It doesn't have to make sense, if that is what is stated in the manga then that's what should be assumed to be what the manga creator meant.

Unless Jiraya and Itachi fight and Itachi wins (Not going to happen since they're both dead) or someone later says that Itachi was lying about saying he can't defeat Jiraya (Unlikely for it to ever come up =/) then you take the manga writer's word on it.

Easy stuff, people.

Shrike
05-26-2008, 05:19 PM
Just because the debate section sucks oh-so-bad now-a-days...

This is pretty easy. When dealing with manga shit, if someone is stated to be stronger and nothing is ever stated or shown to show that the original statement is false (Logical contradictions don't count; so the whole Itachi>Oro, who is around equal to Jiraya is a moot point), then the original statement should be assumed to be true. After all, the writer of the manga knows who's stronger since he's the one who is making all this stuff up. He's the only credible authority, and at the very least knows more than any of us.

Therefore, if Itachi states that he cannot defeat Jiraya and there hasn't been anything stated that shows that he was lying or mistaken, then the logical assumption would be that he cannot defeat Jiraya. It doesn't have to make sense, if that is what is stated in the manga then that's what should be assumed to be what the manga creator meant.

Unless Jiraya and Itachi fight and Itachi wins (Not going to happen since they're both dead) or someone later says that Itachi was lying about saying he can't defeat Jiraya (Unlikely for it to ever come up =/) then you take the manga writer's word on it.

Easy stuff, people.

While what you are saying is true Mibs, the fact that Itachi was good all along and had no intention of fighting Jiraiya nor taking Naruto is what makes people wonder.
Of course, if the mangaka says who is stronger he is right, no matter how illogical it is.

Whata post i expected nothing less from a itachi fanboy roflll j/p bro.

Anyway i like them both everyone knows that but i go with jiraiya simply cause he is packing more then itachi and is packing years of experience on his ass beside the fact that he outclasses him in just about everything. accept base speed i guess.

I am Itachi fan, not fanboy. Yeah, I know you are joking.
That's true, Jiraiya has experience, I didn't think of that. Add another plus to Jiraiya.
But he doesn't outclass him at all.
Not ninjutsu, not genjutsu, not speed. Only Hermit mode taijutsu.
He does, however, outclass him by far in summonings and chakra capacity.

ThePRODIGY
05-26-2008, 06:32 PM
Itachi once stated even if all the akatsuki faced him the result would be the same they would all die so why do you think that itachi can defeat him 1on1

Shrike
05-26-2008, 06:48 PM
Itachi once stated even if all the akatsuki faced him the result would be the same they would all die so why do you think that itachi can defeat him 1on1

Because he obviously lied to Kisame?
Pain alone killed him. Use your logic.

Namikaze85
05-26-2008, 07:16 PM
actually shrike he does outclass itachi in ninjutsu that's fact i can show you.

Kage bushinn
Toad silhouette
Great grand fireball
Toad oil bullet
Hell fryer
Deep fryer
Some other katon i forgot
Rasengan
Ultimate rasegan which may i say can end the fight
Hell swamp
Toad stomach
Summoing
Toad song
Highest rank fire supressor
Lion's mane
toad barrier
and i forgot a few they are sealing jutsu though

As for itachi
Grand fireball
phoniex flower
fire dragon (not grand fire)
amaterasu
water wall
exploding bushinn
kage bushinn
Susanoo

These attacks are powerful no doubt but jiraiy's have and edge only way for him to win is let out susanoo right off the bat and i doubt it works like that since there is an order tsuku,ama,sus.



Genjutsu wise tsukuyomi vs toad song i pick the song cause it can kill multiple amounts of people at once while tsukuyomi is done at one person.

Speed base form itachi def beats jiriaya through hm i just don't see it

Taijutsu def jiraiya the way he fights is amazing itachi isn't bad either but this guy was chosen as kage twice for a reason.

Power jiraiyaaaaaa

Experience jiraiyaaaaaa


Yes itachi has way more genjutsu tricks and remians king in genjutsu still but i just matched up there strongest ones since those regular won't effect him at all he already dealt with sharingan genjutsu before.

Overall itachi is still hella powerful and def a match for jiraiya i won't lie about that but once hm is out itachi will go rather easily.

As for itachi saying more men i SERIOUSY DOUBT HE MEANT PEIN i think he meant just regular fodder ninjas since i doubt jiraiya can kill the entire aka by himself excluding pein.

Xicidal
05-26-2008, 07:25 PM
This just a bunch fan boys arguing about who would win. Your all wrong tell the writer says it with is own mouth or has them fight. All the things that have been said so far is speculations. Madara might just be giving us a load of bull anyways.

just because one person beat another doesn't make it so someone they never fought is on auto lose.

Shrike
05-26-2008, 08:11 PM
This just a bunch fan boys arguing about who would win. Your all wrong tell the writer says it with is own mouth or has them fight. All the things that have been said so far is speculations. Madara might just be giving us a load of bull anyways.

just because one person beat another doesn't make it so someone they never fought is on auto lose.

Yeah, forum is a place for people to talk about facts.
No mistake there.

Namikaze85
05-26-2008, 09:20 PM
This just a bunch fan boys arguing about who would win. Your all wrong tell the writer says it with is own mouth or has them fight. All the things that have been said so far is speculations. Madara might just be giving us a load of bull anyways.

just because one person beat another doesn't make it so someone they never fought is on auto lose.

Pinned that shit on the dot reps for you.

But this is a forum and people are gonna argue lol.

Avian
05-27-2008, 02:27 AM
Pinned that shit on the dot reps for you.

But this is a forum and people are gonna argue lol.

His just jealous cause he has nothing to offer to the arguement XD

MikeyM1979
05-27-2008, 12:17 PM
Just because the debate section sucks oh-so-bad now-a-days...:)

This is pretty easy. When dealing with manga shit, if someone is stated to be stronger and nothing is ever stated or shown to show that the original statement is false (Logical contradictions don't count; so the whole Itachi>Oro, who is around equal to Jiraya is a moot point), then the original statement should be assumed to be true.Yeah, A>B>C logic usually doesn't work. However, Kishi has this nasty habit of saying one thing, then showing another that somewhat contradicts his own words with actions.

After all, the writer of the manga knows who's stronger since he's the one who is making all this stuff up. He's the only credible authority, and at the very least knows more than any of us.Kishi's worked pretty hard to make Sasuke seem so much stronger than Naruto, yet it's pretty easy to make a case of Naruto being able to defeat Sasuke. :p

Therefore, if Itachi states that he cannot defeat Jiraya and there hasn't been anything stated that shows that he was lying or mistaken, then the logical assumption would be that he cannot defeat Jiraya. It doesn't have to make sense, if that is what is stated in the manga then that's what should be assumed to be what the manga creator meant.True. However, again, Kishi likes to contradict his words with actions. Kishi made Kakashi state that Naruto is at least on his level, or above him. Yet, if you look at their combat styles and what they've shown thus far, it's also easily debatable, that Kakashi > Naruto. Something stated in the manga is a fact, but so is something shown in the manga. Even if they contradict one another. And then there's certain things happening, or things said, just because of plot....

Unless Jiraya and Itachi fight and Itachi wins (Not going to happen since they're both dead) or someone later says that Itachi was lying about saying he can't defeat Jiraya (Unlikely for it to ever come up =/) then you take the manga writer's word on it.

Easy stuff, people.Riiight...

But!

It's hard to take his words so seriously when he has characters show otherwise. Kishi can make Itachi state that he cannot defeat Jiraiya, yet Jiraiya's never shown anything that would deal with, overcome, or counter things like Susanoo, and Itachi's other MS techniques. If Jiraiya's caught in Tsukuyomi, then what? He tries to Kai his way out of it? Jiraiya's not breaking out of that, like, at all. What if Jiraiya is caught in Amatesaru? He's pretty much dead meat, unless he has some sort of magical plot device like Sasuke had to avoid death. I mean, logically, Jiraiya should burn to death right there and then. Susanoo? Jiraiya's only hope against something like that is going into Hermit Mode, and preparing the Frog song genjutsu, and lord knows during that time, Jiraiya will have to work his ass off trying to avoid Susanoo, which I really doubt he can. See what I mean about the words vs actions bit?

Anyway, for the record, I think Jiraiya would beat Itachi. xD

Taijutsu easily goes to Itachi.
Experience easily goes to Jiraiya.
Ninjutsu goes to Jiraiya, mainly for his versatility, and not actual power.
Genjutsu....Itachi takes that, mainly for his normal genjutsu, Sharingan genjutsu, and MS genjutsu.
Power easily goes to Jiraiya. Sorry, but Itachi's never really shown too much physical strength. I wasn't impressed by his kick to Kurenai, nor was I impressed with him holding Sasuke down.
Speed goes to Itachi. However, once in Hermit Mode, it could go either way.

In the end, I think it boils down to who out lasts who. While Itachi is younger than Jiraiya is, Jiraiya is great at defending against attacks and buying time. Itachi knows what he's up against, when it comes to Jiraiya, so he'd most likely bring out his MS techniques early.

liondemon
05-27-2008, 12:21 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/144/08/ Itachi never feared Jiraiya or gave him any more credit than being a strong man. Itachi would beat Jiraiya

MikeyM1979
05-27-2008, 12:34 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/144/08/ Itachi never feared Jiraiya or gave him any more credit than being a strong man. Itachi would beat Jiraiya
How exactly does this prove that Itachi can beat Jiraiya? Commenting on how a strong man has a weak point =\= being able to exploit said weak point. And there's also no evidence of Itachi even knowing what said weak point is.

satine15
05-27-2008, 12:41 PM
Itachi's a lot better.

BlackKakashi31
05-27-2008, 12:46 PM
How exactly does this prove that Itachi can beat Jiraiya? Commenting on how a strong man has a weak point =\= being able to exploit said weak point. And there's also no evidence of Itachi even knowing what said weak point is.

Actually, I believe they used a beautiful woman, since that is Jaraiya's weak point.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/144/08/ Itachi never feared Jiraiya or gave him any more credit than being a strong man. Itachi would beat Jiraiya

This weakness has nothing to do with fighting one on one. It means keeping him from Naruto.

Kenganan
05-27-2008, 01:50 PM
Itachi didn't loose his eyes in a battle. I don't see what were you trying to pull other than defending Jiraiya through meaningless chatter.

I guess losing your eyes to blindness while fighting, magically doesn't count as losing them. Going blind mid fight, is just like having them plucked out of your skull, they're still useless.



Chiyo said "Oh, so this is the child who killed his own family?". So, no, it went over Konoha's walls easily. The second greatest clan ever to be obliterated like that will surely be a big news.
Of course, Jiraiya's status as the legendary Sannin is greater. Ibiki was afraid of Orochimaru, just because he is legendary. Kakashi as well. Yet Kakashi fought Itachi with almost no fear. This is because Itachi is young.


Suna was also in good ties with Konoha so of course they would learn of the information, so they could provide aid to Konoha if they needed such. My point I was trying to get across was the fact that someone said Jiraiya was not great compared to Itachi's single accomplishment, when in fact his name will go on forever as one of the three legendary sannin, a title no one else will likely hold.

Off topic: There can be another Uchiha Massacre, Sasuke just needs to start multipying like rabbits with someone, and stop looking at waves crashing against a wall.


Indeed.
Killing Uchiha clan isn't a big deal since we never saw important and strong shinobi from that family before. So, meh, it's just cool that he did it, and makes him interesting, not almighty.

Yep. "The second greatest clan ever to be obliterated like that will surely be a big news." That's what you said. When they were destroyed, they were shells of their former heritage. Itachi stated this in fact that they had become weak. So to kill a clan that was once the second greatest clan ever isn't as much of a feat as it is played out to be. I think it was safe to say that the majority of the Uchiha before their demise, were not greater than the rest of Konoha by leaps and bounds.


Nonsense. You are saying that the fact that Jiraiya is 53 makes him weaker then he was when he was Itachi's age?
Let me show you how much of a bullshit that statement is - all three of the Sannin lost to a man called Hanzou. The man whom Pain took down singlehandedly. And what age were they? Right, they were at least, if not older then Itachi. Itachi took down a Sannin when he was just 11, don't forget such mudding of the Sannin name.
Also, Tsukiyomi on one Pain would be deadly for all of them, remember that what one sees, other see as well.
And such Jiraiya fanboying is really childish, not much unlike what I see here everyday.


No, I'm saying an old geezer, could almost best Pein, when Itachi in his prime probably could not. The bodies share the same eyes, but not the same mind, which is what genjutsu effects. When a shinobi gets into their late 50's and onto their 60's their skills decline. This was stated when Orochimaru fought Sandaime. Sandaime was 64 I think, and they said if he was 10 years younger or something along those lines, he would have been able to fend off Orochimaru.

Hanzou was thought of as one of the strongest shinobi's of that era, did you not also see the hundreds of corpses lieing around on the ground of Konoha shinobi from Hanzou single handedly laying the smackdown on them leaving only Jiraiya, Tsunade and Oro left. Pein also holds the strongest eye doujustu known in the shinobi world, so seeing how he's a "god" I would hope that he would be able kill Hanzou.

Jiraiya fanboying aye? Though I like Jiraiya I don't think you can call it fanboying, just defending a character whom I think deserves more credit then his due. I mean, who else do you know of to challenge Pein and almost win, Jiraiya came the closest so far as far as we know, closer than Hanzou more then likely.


Yeah, a lot harder.
I don't think Itachi can win against Pain. Dunno how would he defend against Susano-O, but just the summons would overwhelm his chakra capacity. I think.

Yep. Says a lot about an old man who withstood the blunt of all of Pein's attacks. Pein might be able to eat the chakra with the fat body, seeing as how Susano-O is still chakra. Though the eternal sleep thing could prove dangerous if it did not in fact absorb the chakra.


If Itachi was healthy, then he might be stronger then Jiraiya. Or may not. That is how you should normally take it and THEN start debating. Not choosing one side right away.

For Itachi to be healthy, you would have had to have him in his younger years, around 11 or so. But if that were to happen, we wouldn't know if Jiraiya would be in his prime as well. The fact is that Itachi's health steadily declined ever since he awakened and abused the Mangekyou (his main source of attacking) time and time again. I'm quite sure Itachi would have given Jiraiya a run for his money if the Mangekyou didn't cause blindness, disease, fatigue on the body etc.

But it does, so already Jiraiya has the upper hand. If not being able to kill or defeat Itachi with one of his own attacks, Jiraiya would just need to outlast him really, seeing as how Itachi spends so much chakra trying to 1,2 or even 3 shot his opponents into submission the majority of the time.

itachiisback
05-27-2008, 02:16 PM
The intellectuals will argue that Itachi >>> Jiraya, while the other lesser ones will argue the contrary.

This argument might never end however it does reveal if you are an idiot or not.

I think on the 2nd or 3rd page i stopped responding. It's because some people are trying to make arguments based on what Itachi said. Itachi is no credible source for actual facts. 90% of what Itachi says is a lie. Kisame even questions why he can't take him. This clearly shows somethings up.

uchihamadara
05-27-2008, 03:24 PM
Listen jiraiya rivaled the leader of akatsuki and would have won if he found out his secret. even itachi was no match for pein and when itachi pawn deidara i'm most certainlly sure he was not eleven. he was older than that and where did you get that from in the first place? he was an anbu captain at thirteen and he was still in konoha he wasn't an established member of akatsuki yet.

Kenganan
05-27-2008, 05:22 PM
Don't insult peoples intelligence when you have provided no proof that Itachi could best Jiraiya other than "He'll look into his eyes and be done for or Susano-O one swipe and your done for" This topic was created because you felt the need to honor your fanboyness to your fallen Itachi by making him stronger than what he actually was, including saying he was on par with Minato, which is utter garbage seeing as how Minato is said time and time again to be the strongest ninja Konoha ever produced. The majority of Itachi's strongest techniques were all double edged swords and proved to be his down fall as we saw with his fight with Sasuke.

You told Sharingan Warrior to provide why Jiraiya was a better shinobi then Itachi, yet you didn't supply any ideas as to why Itachi was better than Jiraiya. You wen't on and on, on how he could whoop the Sannin, was either better or equal to Minato, and how he is a prodigy etc.

You said he pwned some Konoha Jounins, all of which are NOT Jiraiya. The Uchiha clan is not the most elite and feared clan, in fact the Senju clan who we know practically nothing about besides Shodai and Nidaime, were plenty enough to whoop their ass all over the shinobi kingdom and eventually have two kage's to the Uchiha's none.

You have no proof that Susano-O is unavoidable and invincible. Tell me where Kishi states that it is. Other then being able to hit a fourty story hydra, Jiraiya is plenty capable of being able to dodge it's strike, especially by a hermit mode Jiraiya. Amaterasu burns in an instant and is so effective, which is why when used against Sasuke, it did not completely engulf and kill him INSTANTLY.

You talk about fighting prowess and how Itachi takes it by a mile over Jiraiya. How so? Prove to me how he takes it by a mile. Jiraiya had the bravery to stand up to Pein, who never lost a fight to ANYONE. Jiraiya had the amazing ability to teach Naruto one of the strongest jutsu's in the shinobi world, along with teaching Konan, Nagato and Pein how to fight. Jiraiya taught the the 4th, who is said to be the greatest ninja Konoha produced, that's right, even better than your prodigy Itachi. What has Itachi done besides have great ability. Apparently it didn't mean much, seeing as how he couldn't use the ability to save his clan, save Sasuke from meeting Madara. Please tell me how Itachi has managed to win by a mile. Oh, and making himself go blind doesn't count.

You say Itachi is faster than Jiraiya in hermit mode. Prove it. Every fight we have seen Itachi in he stands there, either casting or defending against attacks. The only thing speed wise he has against Jiraiya is his ability to preform hand seals faster, that does not mean he is faster in Taijutsu type attacks. Show me where he uses blinding speed to punch someone's lights out or deliver a devastating attack like that of Lee or Gai. Naruto hit Itachi with a Giant Rasengan and he wasn't able to escape it with his "amazing speed." So please show me some panls where Itachi's speed trumps that of a Hermit Mode Jiraiya.

shopnshave
05-27-2008, 05:53 PM
I'm sorry but itachiisback has proven many times already in his thread that itachi>jiraiya. He's basically won this debate.

Namikaze85
05-27-2008, 07:06 PM
sure he did shopnsdave lmfaooooo


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
How exactly does this prove that Itachi can beat Jiraiya? Commenting on how a strong man has a weak point =\= being able to exploit said weak point. And there's also no evidence of Itachi even knowing what said weak point is.

Lmfaooo not only that but that was translted the wrong way eveyrone knows that rofll i mean you can't make hjack shit of what they are saying it's like shrike said"if you try to trans japanese perfectly you will get chibrish" and that was the case right there as you can clearly see it's a bad quality trans and manga this was one amnga's earlier translations i asked them on a forum they said it wasn't translated accuretly.

so yeah liondemon you might wanna go and erase that buddy cause i checked:cool:.

ANyways mikey sorry but your points are kinda flawe very easily.

Taijutsu goes to itachi how exactly lmfaooo is that please jiraiya is way better at taijutsu then he is jiraiya has shown way more taijutsu then itachi ever did thus making jiraiya better not to mention he will kill with tai in hm.

Ninjutsu goes to jiraiya not only for verstality but for power as well and you know that he knows nothing of jiraiya more powerful attacks he had to use amaterasu on j mans toad stomach which isn't even his most powerful not to mention hell swamo would kill alone.

Power jiraiya we know why

Speed base form i say itachi hm jiraiya for sure

Genjutsu while it goes to itachi the only thread to jiraiya is tsukuyomi which i am sure the toads would know a way around if they knew around rinnegan. not to mention jiraiya def knows about mks don't asl for links please because yes it wasn't shown but he already saw amaterasu and knows of shodai vs madara thus knowing of madara's power because he said"only one man had that kinda power" uchih madara" so yeah.

And jiraiya's genjutsu is way more lethal then tsukuyomi is. because it's sound not sight.

Sharingan genjutsu is nothing for him as we already argued it once member and i showed you how he got around sharingan genjutsu easilyitachi was suprised as well. This isn't oro vs itachi here buddy.

experience jiraiya.

So at the end of the day.

Ninjutsu - Jiraiya
Taijutsu - jiraiya
Genjutsu - itachi ,but it won't help him
Power - jiraiya
speed - itachi base jiraiya hm
Ex - jiraiya

Jiraiya can and will beat him lol jiraiya is packing way more heat then itachi is.

liondemon
05-27-2008, 07:32 PM
Actually, I believe they used a beautiful woman, since that is Jaraiya's weak point.



This weakness has nothing to do with fighting one on one. It means keeping him from Naruto.

I noticed people said that Itachi expressed fear or knew he would lose against Jaraiya but that was in the Anime and I was giving the page to show it. i guess I should have quoted them before posting. I just personally think that Itachi would win against Jiraiya. I wont bother saying why because all somebody will do is create a list of things that Joraiya can do against Itachi so I will just say it's just my opinion, as always, that Itachi will win.

Namikaze85
05-27-2008, 08:06 PM
I noticed people said that Itachi expressed fear or knew he would lose against Jaraiya but that was in the Anime and I was giving the page to show it. i guess I should have quoted them before posting. I just personally think that Itachi would win against Jiraiya. I wont bother saying why because all somebody will do is create a list of things that Joraiya can do against Itachi so I will just say it's just my opinion, as always, that Itachi will win.

you can post all the pages you want but.

1 - that page nobody knows wtf itachi was saying because it wasn't translated the right way.

2- i personally ASKED PEOPLE ON ONE MANGA ABOUT THIS PAGE PERSONALLYand they told me it was a bad translation.

Now the anime translated it more correctly since they don't actually use exact japanese trans because you can't translate it perfectly in japanese.

You saw the page that is an example of why jap shouldn't be correctly translated cause it makes no sense.

But i love how you left tmy last post out when replying here again it's funny how fanboys just love to ignore the things being and proved said to them.


Not to metnion they used a SHARINGAN GENJUTSU on a woman which jiraiya easily broke and saw through it just so they can keep him away from naruto.

Jiraiya"using the sharingan genjutsu to keep me away from naruto is really cowardly"

He said that shit right in itachi's face and all he did was grin like he was pissed and then ran like a lil bitch.

itachiisback
05-28-2008, 01:11 AM
Listen jiraiya rivaled the leader of akatsuki and would have won if he found out his secret. even itachi was no match for pein and when itachi pawn deidara i'm most certainlly sure he was not eleven. he was older than that and where did you get that from in the first place? he was an anbu captain at thirteen and he was still in konoha he wasn't an established member of akatsuki yet.

There is a clear timeline over at narutofan. I'm too lazy to post it but he was in Akatsuki and Anbu at the same time.

Also, for the other ones..



http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000142/09.jpg

http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000359/11.jpg

http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000345/page-09.jpg

You people should learn to read the manga rather than watch the anime all the time.

http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000148/16.jpg

His distance is the only thing stopping him from... "taking you..."

http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000148/07.jpg

itachiisback
05-28-2008, 01:28 AM
I can't fit enough pictures on 1 post.

http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000147/08.jpg

Itachi's ready to fight and destroy Jiraya.

http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000147/09.jpg

http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000147/10.jpg

http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000147/13.jpg

http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000147/15.jpg

Kenganan
05-28-2008, 02:41 AM
First panel against Kakashi is shadow clones. It's even said by Kurenai that Itachi's hand seals and ninjutsu are extremely fast, yet Kakashi still manages to out do Itachi with a shadow clone of his own in the later panels. I already know Itachi's hand seals and ninjutsu are fast, perhaps you should show the panel where Kurenai is attacked, though she still manages to block.

Panels with Deidara is genjutsu and doesn't have any relation to any taijutsu type attack what so ever.

The panel with Orochimaru is a counter genjutsu. Again, nothing to do with any hand to hand combat. I'm pretty sure that was a counter genjutsu for Orochimaru's body stealing technique, the same technique Sasuke used to trap Orochimaru in his own body.

I don't see a "taking you." anywhere in the panels, or did you just add that in yourself? What does this have to do with taijutsu?

I believe Itachi is ready to try and grab Naruto without trying to mingle with the likes of Jiraiya, especially in a place confined like the one they are in.

Itachi beats up his little brother, who is on the same skill level of Naruto. Jiraiya stated before that fighting against him would get him killed, the same would go for Sasuke I'm sure.

From what i've seen from these panels, it is nothing but quick hand seals that we have seen from Itachi, like I stated before. He is not very mobile when fighting yet you spout that his taijutsu is leaps and bounds then that of Jiraiya. Perhaps you should post the panels of Itachi kicking Kurenai and her still being able to defend against it, or the panel where Itachi is grabbed by Kakashi's shadow clone. Perhaps his last fight with Sasuke where they tango'd with the other, though Itachi was very quick to use genjutsu on Sasuke. Their taijutsu fight lasted about a page or so I think.

itachiisback
05-28-2008, 11:55 AM
First panel against Kakashi is shadow clones. It's even said by Kurenai that Itachi's hand seals and ninjutsu are extremely fast, yet Kakashi still manages to out do Itachi with a shadow clone of his own in the later panels. I already know Itachi's hand seals and ninjutsu are fast, perhaps you should show the panel where Kurenai is attacked, though she still manages to block.


THough she still manages to block is because Itachi went easy on her. Itachi was trying to do little harm as possible. Read latest chapter, Itachi wanted to protect Konoha. Itachi planned Sasuke's life from the beginning, this guy is a genius prodigy. If that was one of his real kicks, she would be flying before she could even react to it.

Panels with Deidara is genjutsu and doesn't have any relation to any taijutsu type attack what so ever.

Genjutsu God is Itachi. Itachi has the strongest genjutsu, ninjutsu and taijutsu- susano-o (read manga).

The frog song was not stated to be the strongest genjutsu. The strongest genjutsu is not avoidable and paralyzes kills, anything the user wants. It all happens in less than a second - no time for reaction.

The panel with Orochimaru is a counter genjutsu. Again, nothing to do with any hand to hand combat. I'm pretty sure that was a counter genjutsu for Orochimaru's body stealing technique, the same technique Sasuke used to trap Orochimaru in his own body.

That was a genjutsu Itachi used as defense. Orochimaru did not try to steal his body at that point but rather went to weaken him first. This is where we find that Oro is no match for Itachi.

I don't see a "taking you." anywhere in the panels, or did you just add that in yourself? What does this have to do with taijutsu?

Well it obviously implies taking you
"The only thing keeping them from... is their distance" .. .another translation


I believe Itachi is ready to try and grab Naruto without trying to mingle with the likes of Jiraiya, especially in a place confined like the one they are in.

Read that chapter again. Itachi shows no, absolute no fear to Jiraya. Look at the evil gaze he gives Jiraya. He knows the reputation of the sannin and is ready to take one on./... this is when Sasuke interferes. Itachi notices something is happening with the curse seal and Sasuke and so to show Sasuke he has long ways to go... he MS's him just like he did to Kakashi.


Itachi beats up his little brother, who is on the same skill level of Naruto. Jiraiya stated before that fighting against him would get him killed, the same would go for Sasuke I'm sure.


This is what Jiraya THINKS. To this Itachi says, "why won't we be able to take Naruto and later on "we'll see about that"..

From what i've seen from these panels, it is nothing but quick hand seals that we have seen from Itachi, like I stated before. He is not very mobile when fighting yet you spout that his taijutsu is leaps and bounds then that of Jiraiya. Perhaps you should post the panels of Itachi kicking Kurenai and her still being able to defend against it, or the panel where Itachi is grabbed by Kakashi's shadow clone. Perhaps his last fight with Sasuke where they tango'd with the other, though Itachi was very quick to use genjutsu on Sasuke. Their taijutsu fight lasted about a page or so I think.

Quick hand seals. Even Yondaime has been reputed to be fast because of his jutsus. Also, Sasuke. Itachi is no sloucher. Itachi is one of the fastest top 3 in this manga, when involving his jutsu - shunsin and etc,.

I never said anything about his taijutsu being above Jiraya. In fact, that is probably the only category he is below Jiraya. However, Susano-o more than enough makes up for it.

Itachi wanted to die in that fight. He was diseased, wanted to die, and was testing Sasuke. Can you not see that he's using MS repeatedly. Why wouldn't he use his normal jutsu..? Because he's testing Sasuke.

In fact, he gave Sasuke a softer version of tsukyomi.

My answers in red.

I'm in a hurry at the moment.. C ya

Sesshomaru_55
05-28-2008, 06:40 PM
Jiraiya has a simple counter for susanoo, His toad genjutsu, Tell me where In Susanoo that would stop Itachi from hearing :)

Namikaze85
05-28-2008, 06:48 PM
Jiraiya has a simple counter for susanoo, His toad genjutsu, Tell me where In Susanoo that would stop Itachi from hearing :)

itachi wouldnt live long enough to bring susanoo out as it goes you must use tsukuyomi before amaterasu and amaterasu before susanoo since i really doubt you can use his most powerful jutsu without using tsukuyomi first because if he could have he would have.

Anyways this thread is pretty much dead majority agrees with jiraiya anyway and so does the AUTHOR.

itachiisback
05-28-2008, 10:29 PM
You don't need to use tsukyomi and amaterasu before susano-o. It was said that the technique was awakened on the same day as those 2.

If anything you read a mistranslation.

Namikaze85
05-28-2008, 10:38 PM
You don't need to use tsukyomi and amaterasu before susano-o. It was said that the technique was awakened on the same day as those 2.

If anything you read a mistranslation.

"Till the tsukuyomi becomes an amaterasu i shouldn't try it again..."

"He used tsukuyomi that day twice"

"these awoke the same day in my eyes as ...." "my FINAL ace"

Itachi cannot use a stronger mks jutsu before a weaker 1 that's how it is portrayed in the manga and i am not making it up.

Also bro seriously you need to stop posting useless panels lol.

Why not post the panel were jiraiya nearly killed itachi and kisame and itachi had to use amaterasu his SECOND strongest jutsu against one of jiriaya's powerful BUT not most powerful jutsu's.

itachiisback
05-28-2008, 10:41 PM
"Till the tsukuyomi becomes an amaterasu i shouldn't try it again..."

"He used tsukuyomi that day twice"

"these awoke the same day in my eyes as ...." "my FINAL ace"

Itachi cannot use a stronger mks jutsu before a weaker 1 that's how it is portrayed in the manga and i am not making it up.

Also bro seriously you need to stop posting useless panels lol.

Why not post the panel were jiraiya nearly killed itachi and kisame and itachi had to use amaterasu his SECOND strongest jutsu against one of jiriaya's powerful BUT not most powerful jutsu's.

Maybe you should list all the reasons why Jiraya is stronger than Itachi.

Do this and i will be sure to respond and thoroughly in that. You will get the pawning of your lifetime. I hope to see a long post on your behalf. Good luck though you don't stand much chance.

You talk a lot of shit because i'm not responding to many of your stupidly biased posts but show me what you've got by posting all the reasons why you claim the retard of teh sannin is stronger than Itachi.

(NOTE: I wont be replying to anyone else's posts)

Kenganan
05-28-2008, 11:02 PM
Your just speculating now. There is no fact that he was going easy on any of them. If he was going easy he wouldn't have used the Tsyukomi on Kakashi.

Once the frog song is locked in, there is no escape once it is locked because it restrains the opponent completely. Because it requires sound and not sight, Jiraiya can strike from any area and be completely in cover while Itachi needs to see his opponents. If Itachi tried to be smart and cover his ears, Jiraiya would easily be able to walk up on Itachi which is why it is such a difficult technique to counter once it's used. It's true Tsyukomi is very strong, but if Jiraiya used a simple shadow clone, Itachi would completely waste not only his chakra but life force pulling off the technique only to fail.

Itachi always has that glare. It's the same old glare he walks around with time and time again, showing little to no emotion or reguard for any actions. And he is actually looking at Sasuke in the panel, not Jiraiya. It is fine that he was ready to throw down with Jiraiya, yet he was quick to run when the battle wen't to close quarters. Again you say he wasn't really bad, yet we are comparing the two to actually fight each other and in that scenario, Itachi loses if he does not run.

It's not what he thinks, it's a fact. Do you actually think Sasuke or Naruto or the both of them teaming up could fight equally against Itachi at that point in time?


It's been said that Jiraya has never been very able with genjutsu. If the sannin genius, Orochimaru, pretty much got owned in a genjutsu... what much chance does someone like Jiraya have?

Speed and brute strength to not signify ones overall abilities. True skill, however does. In every battle Itachi's been in, you can see him quickly rid of his enemies in but a few panels. In Konoha he took on a whole a group of elite jounin and destroyed them literally. He destroyed the Uchiha clan, called to be the most elite and feared clan.

If these accomplishments to not dictate his superiority to Jiraya then i don't know what does.
Sure Hermit mode is impressive. But Itachi has the best genjutsu, ninjutsu and taijutsu in the whole series.

Susano-o as broken as it is, is unavoidable and invincible with unlimited defense and offense.

Amaterasu burns in an instant. If Itachi looks at Jiraya, Jiraya would be turned to ashes,... this the power and efficiency of Amaterasu.


I hate to think what will happen to Jiraya under tsukyomi whcih happens in an instant.


You in fact stated Itachi was the best of all three in your quoted post above so you kind of contradicted yourself there with your last statement with Jiraiya having the better of taijutsu all of a sudden. Again you bringing Susano-O and again I'll bring up the fact that he struck a 40 foot tall hydra with it, which is roughly the same size as Gamabunta. It is incredibly easier to hit something extremely large than something very small.

He is using his MKS because that's what he is accustomed to fighting with when faced against stronger than average opponent's. People say it time and time again that he relied to much on it.

The three MKS techniques are ninjutsu. genjutsu and taijutsu and it doesn't state they are the strongest techniques in the shinobi world just the three strongest of the Mangekyou Sharingan. Like I said before. You claimed Itachi's taijutsu was better than Jiraiya's as well as others and you start to bring up shunshin, ninjutsu etc. to defend your arguments when all of which are not taijutsu. Yes, Minato was the yellow flash, and we all know why, because of his Flying Thunder God ninjutsu. But taijutsu is not just about how fast people move, but the arts and styles of which they learn and their ability to combat other styles in hand to hand combat. So in fact, Minato was in fact average if anything in taijutsu, but possessed a very fast ninjutsu technique which allowed him to strike in a larger quantity than others.

When you sprout that someone's taijutsu is better than the other, and can only back it up with applying ninjutsu techniques, the arguement tends to fall apart.

Taijutsu; literally "Body Arts" is a term for Japanese martial arts techniques that rely solely on body dynamics as opposed to weapons and other devices. 'A truly dynamic, effective and real-life system of self defense and unarmed combat'.

In other words like I stated before, punches, kicks, dodging, blocking etc. are all forms of taijutsu. Shunshin is ninjutsu, hand seals are ninjutsu. Track stars can run really really fast, but does that mean they will be able to dodge or block a punch correctly? No.

Edit: Also, Naruto is a story that tells that hard work and determination will still triumph over a skilled prodigy any day. To call Jiraiya an idiot is very wrong, considering he trained not only Naruto and Minato possibly the two strongest shinobi's to come out of Konoha, but was able to train with the toads, teach some Rain kids who knew nothing about fighting the way of the shinobi. In case you didn't notice two of those three kids became part of Akatsuki, and one of them barked around orders to Itachi himself. He single handedly was able to put a complete stop to the destruction of Konoha by destroying Orochimaru's summons instantly, he was able to retrieve Tsunade to become Hokage of Konoha, and has been the only one to stand up to Pein and figure out his secret thus allowing someone else the chance to beat him. If anything, Itachi was the fool who thought his lies would hold up forever, has the tables turned?

itachiisback
05-29-2008, 12:03 AM
Your just speculating now. There is no fact that he was going easy on any of them. If he was going easy he wouldn't have used the Tsyukomi on Kakashi.

No. The entire fight was in Itachi's hands. Itachi had been dominating Kakashi and to show Kakashi the "true power of an Uchiha" he took out his MS. This could also have shown Itachi's ulterior motives. With this MS experience, Kakashi was able to unlock his own.

Once the frog song is locked in, there is no escape once it is locked because it restrains the opponent completely. Because it requires sound and not sight, Jiraiya can strike from any area and be completely in cover while Itachi needs to see his opponents. If Itachi tried to be smart and cover his ears, Jiraiya would easily be able to walk up on Itachi which is why it is such a difficult technique to counter once it's used. It's true Tsyukomi is very strong, but if Jiraiya used a simple shadow clone, Itachi would completely waste not only his chakra but life force pulling off the technique only to fail.

The frog song is good however it takes a long time to prepare. One cannot avoid sight when fighting such a high level opponent as Itachi. The moment he turns his eyes away from Itachi, he would regret it since Itachi is known to speedblitz destroy his opponents.


Itachi always has that glare. It's the same old glare he walks around with time and time again, showing little to no emotion or reguard for any actions. And he is actually looking at Sasuke in the panel, not Jiraiya. It is fine that he was ready to throw down with Jiraiya, yet he was quick to run when the battle wen't to close quarters. Again you say he wasn't really bad, yet we are comparing the two to actually fight each other and in that scenario, Itachi loses if he does not run.

Actually, i'm not talking about that page but the pages before them.
Ulterior motives is what explains Itachi. Itachi was the greatest mystery in this manga.

It's not what he thinks, it's a fact. Do you actually think Sasuke or Naruto or the both of them teaming up could fight equally against Itachi at that point in time?





You in fact stated Itachi was the best of all three in your quoted post above so you kind of contradicted yourself there with your last statement with Jiraiya having the better of taijutsu all of a sudden. Again you bringing Susano-O and again I'll bring up the fact that he struck a 40 foot tall hydra with it, which is roughly the same size as Gamabunta. It is incredibly easier to hit something extremely large than something very small.

My mistake. I meant Jiraya, using hermit mode, has better taijutsu skills than Itachi. However, Itachi has the best Taijutsu technique which is Susano-o, god of the sea.

This means nothing in manga, whether small or big the toad hermit would be pierced into the genjutsu world before he could react.

He is using his MKS because that's what he is accustomed to fighting with when faced against stronger than average opponent's. People say it time and time again that he relied to much on it.

The three MKS techniques are ninjutsu. genjutsu and taijutsu and it doesn't state they are the strongest techniques in the shinobi world just the three strongest of the Mangekyou Sharingan. Like I said before. You claimed Itachi's taijutsu was better than Jiraiya's as well as others and you start to bring up shunshin, ninjutsu etc. to defend your arguments when all of which are not taijutsu. Yes, Minato was the yellow flash, and we all know why, because of his Flying Thunder God ninjutsu. But taijutsu is not just about how fast people move, but the arts and styles of which they learn and their ability to combat other styles in hand to hand combat. So in fact, Minato was in fact average if anything in taijutsu, but possessed a very fast ninjutsu technique which allowed him to strike in a larger quantity than others.



When you sprout that someone's taijutsu is better than the other, and can only back it up with applying ninjutsu techniques, the arguement tends to fall apart.


Zetsu claimed the three techniques to be the strongest of their respective genres. Manga proof.

Taijutsu; literally "Body Arts" is a term for Japanese martial arts techniques that rely solely on body dynamics as opposed to weapons and other devices. 'A truly dynamic, effective and real-life system of self defense and unarmed combat'.

In other words like I stated before, punches, kicks, dodging, blocking etc. are all forms of taijutsu. Shunshin is ninjutsu, hand seals are ninjutsu. Track stars can run really really fast, but does that mean they will be able to dodge or block a punch correctly? No.




Edit: Also, Naruto is a story that tells that hard work and determination will still triumph over a skilled prodigy any day. To call Jiraiya an idiot is very wrong, considering he trained not only Naruto and Minato possibly the two strongest shinobi's to come out of Konoha, but was able to train with the toads, teach some Rain kids who knew nothing about fighting the way of the shinobi. In case you didn't notice two of those three kids became part of Akatsuki, and one of them barked around orders to Itachi himself. He single handedly was able to put a complete stop to the destruction of Konoha by destroying Orochimaru's summons instantly, he was able to retrieve Tsunade to become Hokage of Konoha, and has been the only one to stand up to Pein and figure out his secret thus allowing someone else the chance to beat him. If anything, Itachi was the fool who thought his lies would hold up forever, has the tables turned?

Replies in bold.

Namikaze85
05-29-2008, 12:03 AM
Maybe you should list all the reasons why Jiraya is stronger than Itachi.

Do this and i will be sure to respond and thoroughly in that. You will get the pawning of your lifetime. I hope to see a long post on your behalf. Good luck though you don't stand much chance.

You talk a lot of shit because i'm not responding to many of your stupidly biased posts but show me what you've got by posting all the reasons why you claim the retard of teh sannin is stronger than Itachi.

(NOTE: I wont be replying to anyone else's posts)


*sighs* yes you are a fan boy with this post you sealed it w/e no sane person would reply to your w/e you call it i call it CRAP. You leave all the facts that idcate jiraiya is stronger and only provide things that hold up itachi's side which is really pathetic ya know "pwning of a lifetime" you wouldn't be able to pwn a 5 year old in a debate.

Good day.

Jiraiya > itachi in just about everything other then base speed and jiraiya packs way more heat in everything else. good day and like the bigger man i am i won't reply and lower myself to your crap any more.

p.s. kegan shoudl just leave the thread as well seriously kegan you are wasitng your time everyone else already gave up on him since he knows nothing about his own subject.


P.s. 2 weren't you not replying to anything else rofllll fan boy.

itachiisback
05-29-2008, 12:05 AM
*sighs* yes you are a fan boy with this post you sealed it w/e no sane person would reply to your w/e you call it i call it CRAP. You leave all the facts that idcate jiraiya is stronger and only provide things that hold up itachi's side which is really pathetic ya know "pwning of a lifetime" you wouldn't be able to pwn a 5 year old in a debate.

Good day.

Jiraiya > itachi in just about everything other then base speed and jiraiya packs way more heat in everything else. good day and like the bigger man i am i won't reply and lower myself to your crap any more.

p.s. kegan shoudl just leave the thread as well.

Good bye, pussy cat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVxwQIEg0x4

rudeboynin
05-29-2008, 12:48 AM
Why is this even an issue when the character himself said he can;t beat him and if he did he may end up dieing in the process

itachiisback
05-29-2008, 01:12 AM
Why is this even an issue when the character himself said he can;t beat him and if he did he may end up dieing in the process

This is an issue because that certain character has recently been reveled to have the top most ulterior motives. In fact, he was working on the other side to bring it down a few pegs.

If you read the latest chapters you would understand.

uchihamadara
05-29-2008, 10:39 AM
listen jiraiya is one of the best ninja to come out of konoha he fought pein and pawned three of his bodies.he would totally pawn him this guy over powered konan in an instant
itachi was forced to use one of his last resort jutsus just to escape the toad mouth trap an jutsu that jiraiya preformed effortlessly. itachi and kisame spoke of jiraiya's greatness and said the last thing they would do is fight him. itachi knows his ablilty and who he can defeat if he said that he would not want to fight jiraiya then he knows he would loose.

MikeyM1979
05-29-2008, 12:43 PM
This is an issue because that certain character has recently been reveled to have the top most ulterior motives. In fact, he was working on the other side to bring it down a few pegs.

If you read the latest chapters you would understand.
The same motives Itachi had when he was confronted by Kakashi, and proceeded to mind rape him. Now, now tell me...now WHY would someone like that use such a lethal technique like that on someone who was inferior to them at the time when it really wasn't needed, and had those motives? Hm? I mean, yeah. If he chose to use MS on Kakashi before, with motives, why would he be so hesitant to even enter a battle against Jiraiya? His motives weren't the only thing that stopped him. He knew he'd lose, and he knew he'd lose even with Kisame. Seriously, Itachi had less to worry about by fighting Jiraiya than he did by fighting Kakashi. What was Naruto gonna do? Stand there frozen? Sasuke was pretty much out of it. That left a two on one situation, and Itachi still retreated. Yet he was totally fine busting the asses of Kakashi and Kurenai, while Kisame dealt with Asuma and Gai, and even chose to use MS....yeah, motives certainly count for a lot. >.>

satansilent
05-29-2008, 02:32 PM
Itachi>Jiraiya
believe it or not,THAT'S THE FACT!!(I'm not argue about this,because I said that before)

BlackKakashi31
05-29-2008, 02:56 PM
Itachi>Jiraiya
believe it or not,THAT'S THE FACT!!(I'm not argue about this,because I said that before)

Well since we can just make statements with no arguments or validation...

Jaraiya > Itachi

I'm saying for the first and last time:D

MikeyM1979
05-29-2008, 03:00 PM
Itachi>Jiraiya
believe it or not,THAT'S THE FACT!!(I'm not argue about this,because I said that before)Uh, yeah. If you're not going to bother backing up any of yours words with any sort of evidence or reasoning, then you really have no say here. :p

itachiisback
05-29-2008, 03:44 PM
The same motives Itachi had when he was confronted by Kakashi, and proceeded to mind rape him. Now, now tell me...now WHY would someone like that use such a lethal technique like that on someone who was inferior to them at the time when it really wasn't needed, and had those motives? Hm? I mean, yeah. If he chose to use MS on Kakashi before, with motives, why would he be so hesitant to even enter a battle against Jiraiya? His motives weren't the only thing that stopped him. He knew he'd lose, and he knew he'd lose even with Kisame. Seriously, Itachi had less to worry about by fighting Jiraiya than he did by fighting Kakashi. What was Naruto gonna do? Stand there frozen? Sasuke was pretty much out of it. That left a two on one situation, and Itachi still retreated. Yet he was totally fine busting the asses of Kakashi and Kurenai, while Kisame dealt with Asuma and Gai, and even chose to use MS....yeah, motives certainly count for a lot. >.>

Read my previous posts.

MS was not needed against Kakashi.

Did Itachi use Ms against oro? Did he use MS against Deidara?

Hanz86
05-29-2008, 05:16 PM
Itachi himself told that he can't defeat JIRAIYA or with luck ITACHI + KISAME can kill JIRAIYA but die together with him..Thats it ENOUGH to tell that JIRAIYA is stronger than ITACHI..Who know better about this other than ITACHI himself??

Note:itachiisback, if u still want to defend ur crap reason..u need to make ur own novel..

Kenganan
05-29-2008, 07:57 PM
No. The entire fight was in Itachi's hands. Itachi had been dominating Kakashi and to show Kakashi the "true power of an Uchiha" he took out his MS. This could also have shown Itachi's ulterior motives. With this MS experience, Kakashi was able to unlock his own.

If it's in his hands the entire time, what reason would he need to show Kakashi a technique that completely drains him, when he could just deal with him in other ways and preserve his chakra to keep fighting? Perhaps the prodigy or genius wasn't much of one at all if he decided to use a single technique on 1 target which drained him almost completely to take out a single shinobi, especially when there are still two left to fight.


The frog song is good however it takes a long time to prepare. One cannot avoid sight when fighting such a high level opponent as Itachi. The moment he turns his eyes away from Itachi, he would regret it since Itachi is known to speedblitz destroy his opponents.

Pein is on a higher level than Itachi, and Jiraiya was capable of using it on three of his bodies. Jiraiya, who would be in hermit mode at the time would be faster than Itachi as you have previously stated, so it would be more then likely that Jiraiya in hermit mode, has a speed advantage over Itachi so the "speedblitz" wouldn't count for much if Jiraiya can see it coming.

My mistake. I meant Jiraya, using hermit mode, has better taijutsu skills than Itachi. However, Itachi has the best Taijutsu technique which is Susano-o, god of the sea.

This means nothing in manga, whether small or big the toad hermit would be pierced into the genjutsu world before he could react.


Jiraiya's taijutsu skills are plenty good enough to avoid attacks, especially from such a giant technique like Susano-O. Also, the genjutsu sword doesn't seem to have an infinite reach like Kusanagi, so all Jiraiya would need to do is out run a technique like that whether it be with shunshin or simple running for enough time for him to counter the attack.

Zetsu claimed the three techniques to be the strongest of their respective genres. Manga proof.

Zetsu's claim means little unless it's in Kishi's log that those three techniques are the strongest. And I don't think Zetsu stated it as such, I believe he said with Susano-O and Itachi's eye techniques, he is one tough dude.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q76/frogy_bucket/dbz/ch392_UK_Page_17.png

itachiisback
05-29-2008, 08:16 PM
No. The entire fight was in Itachi's hands. Itachi had been dominating Kakashi and to show Kakashi the "true power of an Uchiha" he took out his MS. This could also have shown Itachi's ulterior motives. With this MS experience, Kakashi was able to unlock his own.

If it's in his hands the entire time, what reason would he need to show Kakashi a technique that completely drains him, when he could just deal with him in other ways and preserve his chakra to keep fighting? Perhaps the prodigy or genius wasn't much of one at all if he decided to use a single technique on 1 target which drained him almost completely to take out a single shinobi, especially when there are still two left to fight.


The frog song is good however it takes a long time to prepare. One cannot avoid sight when fighting such a high level opponent as Itachi. The moment he turns his eyes away from Itachi, he would regret it since Itachi is known to speedblitz destroy his opponents.

Pein is on a higher level than Itachi, and Jiraiya was capable of using it on three of his bodies. Jiraiya, who would be in hermit mode at the time would be faster than Itachi as you have previously stated, so it would be more then likely that Jiraiya in hermit mode, has a speed advantage over Itachi so the "speedblitz" wouldn't count for much if Jiraiya can see it coming.

My mistake. I meant Jiraya, using hermit mode, has better taijutsu skills than Itachi. However, Itachi has the best Taijutsu technique which is Susano-o, god of the sea.

This means nothing in manga, whether small or big the toad hermit would be pierced into the genjutsu world before he could react.


Jiraiya's taijutsu skills are plenty good enough to avoid attacks, especially from such a giant technique like Susano-O. Also, the genjutsu sword doesn't seem to have an infinite reach like Kusanagi, so all Jiraiya would need to do is out run a technique like that whether it be with shunshin or simple running for enough time for him to counter the attack.

Zetsu claimed the three techniques to be the strongest of their respective genres. Manga proof.

Zetsu's claim means little unless it's in Kishi's log that those three techniques are the strongest. And I don't think Zetsu stated it as such, I believe he said with Susano-O and Itachi's eye techniques, he is one tough dude.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q76/frogy_bucket/dbz/ch392_UK_Page_17.png


Read my previous posts since you can find most of the replies to your weak points there.

Also Kusunagi is not comparable to the sword of tostsuka. Totsuka has not hinted to have a short range. Anything that huge, by common sense, would not have a short range.

Itachi himself told that he can't defeat JIRAIYA or with luck ITACHI + KISAME can kill JIRAIYA but die together with him..Thats it ENOUGH to tell that JIRAIYA is stronger than ITACHI..Who know better about this other than ITACHI himself??

Note:itachiisback, if u still want to defend ur crap reason..u need to make ur own novel..

Maybe because he also said, "Only a true Uchiha could hope to defeat me"

and that "Even if we had more men (the akatsuki), the result would not change"


These 2 statements are contradicting and the second is just stupid since Jiraya > Akatsuki.

platinumrug
05-29-2008, 10:09 PM
Who gives a damn? Jiraiya and Itachi are superior in their own respects, whether it be hand to hand, ninjutsu, genjutsu, accomplishments, talents, etc...

Kenganan
05-29-2008, 10:15 PM
The true power of an Uchiha is not an arguement. I have stated common sense shows that why would someone who's been expressed as a Genius time and time again, exhaust themselves not only in the middle of a hostile village that has just been through a tough battle but against a single foe with two other's standing around when they could simply expand less energy since they were in complete control the entire time and not have to be worried with other shinobi arriving on the scene. Show me how exhausting himself to the point of retreating helps his chances at all in that situation.

So common sense would tell us that hitting something big is much easier than hitting something small, yet you took that arguement and through it out of the door when I brought it up before about Susano-O having a much harder time to hit a small Jiraiya than a very large hydra.

Now you are trying to use the common sense gag against me when I bring up the fact that Jiraiya could simply just run from susano-o's range and eventually counter him. Remember, we don't know most of the traits behind susano-o, like whether Itachi is immobile or not when it is activated etc.

As for Kusanagi not being comparable, I disagree. Kusanagi is unbreakable by any means while Totsuka puts a seemingly endless genjutsu on opponent's. Both swords are looked on like two rare atrifacts with truely amazing characteristics with nothing else rivaling their unique characteristics.

I have to note that Itachi's footing did not move a SINGLE inch when he was being attacked by Orochimaru and Sasuke while susano-O was active. Itachi countered during all of those attacks. So by assuming, which is what much of the arguements have come down to, Itachi is a sitting duck for Jiraiya to pull off whatever crazy thing he is able to while standing clear of Susano-o's range.

I don't think I have many weak points if any in my posts, atleast not more than you. I've stated common sense and facts all while stating the fact that Itachi, though quite skilled, would sooner or later succumb to Jiraiya's endless amount of techniques.

While you and I have posted pictures and such, my first panel clearly shows what Zetsu had said about Itachi and his techniques, where as I still haven't seen convincing evidence from your side that Itachi could defeat Jiraiya other than looking into his eyes. With that said, Sasuke has been able to break Tysukomi, escape from Amaterasu and keep his distance from Susano-O. If Itachi didn't become so exhausted and basically handicapped from using his MKS techniques we would have a different discussion on our hands, but he does and we see it time and time again when he fights. Jiraiya just has the correct setup of techniques and skill level to counter and push around Itachi.

It seems you nore I won't budge so this is probably going to be my last post for a bit. Though it was fun debating the fact on who would win.

itachiisback
05-29-2008, 10:52 PM
The true power of an Uchiha is not an arguement. I have stated common sense shows that why would someone who's been expressed as a Genius time and time again, exhaust themselves not only in the middle of a hostile village that has just been through a tough battle but against a single foe with two other's standing around when they could simply expand less energy since they were in complete control the entire time and not have to be worried with other shinobi arriving on the scene. Show me how exhausting himself to the point of retreating helps his chances at all in that situation.

So common sense would tell us that hitting something big is much easier than hitting something small, yet you took that arguement and through it out of the door when I brought it up before about Susano-O having a much harder time to hit a small Jiraiya than a very large hydra.

Now you are trying to use the common sense gag against me when I bring up the fact that Jiraiya could simply just run from susano-o's range and eventually counter him. Remember, we don't know most of the traits behind susano-o, like whether Itachi is immobile or not when it is activated etc.

As for Kusanagi not being comparable, I disagree. Kusanagi is unbreakable by any means while Totsuka puts a seemingly endless genjutsu on opponent's. Both swords are looked on like two rare atrifacts with truely amazing characteristics with nothing else rivaling their unique characteristics.

I have to note that Itachi's footing did not move a SINGLE inch when he was being attacked by Orochimaru and Sasuke while susano-O was active. Itachi countered during all of those attacks. So by assuming, which is what much of the arguements have come down to, Itachi is a sitting duck for Jiraiya to pull off whatever crazy thing he is able to while standing clear of Susano-o's range.

I don't think I have many weak points if any in my posts, atleast not more than you. I've stated common sense and facts all while stating the fact that Itachi, though quite skilled, would sooner or later succumb to Jiraiya's endless amount of techniques.

While you and I have posted pictures and such, my first panel clearly shows what Zetsu had said about Itachi and his techniques, where as I still haven't seen convincing evidence from your side that Itachi could defeat Jiraiya other than looking into his eyes. With that said, Sasuke has been able to break Tysukomi, escape from Amaterasu and keep his distance from Susano-O. If Itachi didn't become so exhausted and basically handicapped from using his MKS techniques we would have a different discussion on our hands, but he does and we see it time and time again when he fights. Jiraiya just has the correct setup of techniques and skill level to counter and push around Itachi.

It seems you nore I won't budge so this is probably going to be my last post for a bit. Though it was fun debating the fact on who would win.

Itachi defeated Orochimaru with a paralyzing genjutsu and kunai. Orochimaru, who is arguably the strongest Sannin and if not is at least on the same level as Jiraya, is not a one trick pony. Orochimaru probably knew the most jutsu tahn anyone in the manga to date. If even Orochimaru got pawned like nothing in a matter of 2 panels (A short, very shrot time) than what chances does Jiraya have to activate hermit mode (he did this by running away from Pein, hiding somewhere, etc.)?

Sasuano-o is huge but the user is the same size as teh opponent. To hit something so huge and to hit something so small would hence take the same effort. Since, you know, Itachi is the same (human) size?

Also, Itachi had moved and restrained Sasuke with Susano-o.

NO where does it hint that Susano-o's totsuka has limited range. In fact. it points to quire the contrary - having pierced Orochimaru before he could even finish his sentence (and Orochimaru being a considerable distance from him).

Now I agree with the point that Jiraya could "exhaust" Itachi in terms of jutsu, etc. However, Itachi's fighting style is completely unique, he ends his fights very quickly. In fact, the first thing he does is genjutsu.

If Jiraya got caught in a paralyzing genjutsu before he could even activate hermit mode, he is, i think you can agree with this, done for. Orochimaru, teh genius of teh sannin stood no chance to the paralyzing genjutsu, how muhc chance would Jiraya - the idiot of teh sannin, have? That's right. CLose to 0.

Jiraya would get the same treatment Oro and Deidara got. And if by some miracle Jiraya resisted against the genjutsu (Note: Jiraya himself is bad with genjutsu stated in manga) then he gets his throat slit by Itachi the moment he releases himself from the genjutsu.

Kenganan
05-30-2008, 12:52 AM
Itachi defeated Orochimaru with a paralyzing genjutsu and kunai. Orochimaru, who is arguably the strongest Sannin and if not is at least on the same level as Jiraya, is not a one trick pony. Orochimaru probably knew the most jutsu tahn anyone in the manga to date. If even Orochimaru got pawned like nothing in a matter of 2 panels (A short, very shrot time) than what chances does Jiraya have to activate hermit mode (he did this by running away from Pein, hiding somewhere, etc.)?

Sasuano-o is huge but the user is the same size as teh opponent. To hit something so huge and to hit something so small would hence take the same effort. Since, you know, Itachi is the same (human) size?

Also, Itachi had moved and restrained Sasuke with Susano-o.

NO where does it hint that Susano-o's totsuka has limited range. In fact. it points to quire the contrary - having pierced Orochimaru before he could even finish his sentence (and Orochimaru being a considerable distance from him).

Now I agree with the point that Jiraya could "exhaust" Itachi in terms of jutsu, etc. However, Itachi's fighting style is completely unique, he ends his fights very quickly. In fact, the first thing he does is genjutsu.

If Jiraya got caught in a paralyzing genjutsu before he could even activate hermit mode, he is, i think you can agree with this, done for. Orochimaru, teh genius of teh sannin stood no chance to the paralyzing genjutsu, how muhc chance would Jiraya - the idiot of teh sannin, have? That's right. CLose to 0.

Jiraya would get the same treatment Oro and Deidara got. And if by some miracle Jiraya resisted against the genjutsu (Note: Jiraya himself is bad with genjutsu stated in manga) then he gets his throat slit by Itachi the moment he releases himself from the genjutsu.

Orochimaru was also not well versed in genjutsu like Itachi was, so Itachi might have thought of even Kakashi or even Kurenai as more of a threat in that department than Oro. Oro heavily preferred ninjutsu over both taijutsu and genjutsu. Orochimaru was also defeated without using his hydra technique, kusanagi, rebirth technique, edo tensei etc. etc. He just simply ran, though he probably could have put up much more of a fight. He also mistakened Itachi to be lesser than him, forcing him to rethink his strategy which is why he went to Sasuke. Jiraiya did not run from Pein, I believe he was starting his transformation when Pein struck him which caused Jiraiya to fly into and crash against a wall, when he reappeared, he was in hermit mode.

Note: I could also bring up the panel of when Itachi and Kisame ran as soon as Jiraiya unleashed his frog stomach. If your going to continue to bring up an Oro panel that was meant to make Itachi look stone cold and was for more plot than anything I guess I will rebutle with Itachi and Kisame running from Jiraiya, the man whom he is supposed to be fighting in this thread. What can you say about that, other than he wasn't really a bad guy. Not only that, but Itachi was forced to use his second strongest technique to break a technique which isn't in the top tier of any of Jiraiya's ninjutsu's.

I don't think Itachi's size has anything to do with it. He doesn't move when he strikes with the sword or blocks with the shield/arm. Look at the panels again, its as if susano-o has a mind of its own or is controlled with Itachi's mind/damaged eyes etc.

Sasuke is restrained by the sheer chakra if anything by Susano-o. From what I can tell the little wave things creating the wall is just like a force field keeping him inside the thing, not pinned down by anything, it was just fear which kept him from moving, probably from the thought of losing his eyes and to his brother of all people.

Again, Orochimaru's hydra was on the verge of attacking Itachi, moving closer and closer at susano-o continued to decapitate the snake heads. In the last panel of ch. 392 one of the pages shows a sky view of susano- and the hydra being no more then perhaps ten feet from each other in terms of susano-'s body and the heads of the hydra. So they were extremely close to the other when heads started rolling.

Which is why Jiraiya would be more then prepared to counter, being quite the tactical fighter and all. He knows of Itachi's skills especially from seeing them first hand unlike Deidara and Oro, so surely he would be much more cautious when engaging him.

Once again, Orochimaru was no more than a foot from Itachi and had wanted his body. Jiraiya wants know such thing so he would be much more cautious when engaging Itachi. Not only that, but Jiraiya has the ability to break genjutsu's by shifting his chakra balance breaking the spell, the same technique he had taught Naruto to defend against genjutsu since he did not know the kai ability.

itachiisback
05-30-2008, 01:08 AM
Orochimaru was also not well versed in genjutsu like Itachi was, so Itachi might have thought of even Kakashi or even Kurenai as more of a threat in that department than Oro. Oro heavily preferred ninjutsu over both taijutsu and genjutsu. Orochimaru was also defeated without using his hydra technique, kusanagi, rebirth technique, edo tensei etc. etc. He just simply ran, though he probably could have put up much more of a fight. He also mistakened Itachi to be lesser than him, forcing him to rethink his strategy which is why he went to Sasuke. Jiraiya did not run from Pein, I believe he was starting his transformation when Pein struck him which caused Jiraiya to fly into and crash against a wall, when he reappeared, he was in hermit mode.

lol Orochimaru is no coward. He knows when he has lost a battle. In fact, he himself admits that Itachi is much stronger than himself. As well, Orochimaru is not a complex character like Itachi is. Whatever Oro says is what he means. If he says Itachi's stronger than him then it must be true since Oro knows himself very well and acknowledged that even with Hydra, summoning and edo tensei he is no match - that's how he came to the conclusion.

Jiraya ran and hid in some place to activate hermit mode, this took a hell load of time. Also the frog song took a long time as well. Read the chapters.

Note: I could also bring up the panel of when Itachi and Kisame ran as soon as Jiraiya unleashed his frog stomach. If your going to continue to bring up an Oro panel that was meant to make Itachi look stone cold and was for more plot than anything I guess I will rebutle with Itachi and Kisame running from Jiraiya, the man whom he is supposed to be fighting in this thread. What can you say about that, other than he wasn't really a bad guy. Not only that, but Itachi was forced to use his second strongest technique to break a technique which isn't in the top tier of any of Jiraiya's ninjutsu's.

Itachi always uses his strongest jutsu. He is a sharingan god. Who the hell would know if he had a vast array 2000 jutsus in his arsenal like Kakashi with 1000. Itachi has been shown to use water and fire. He has not been shown at 100%. Using your strongest moves do not equate to a weakness. See Kakashi fight where he used MS to show the true power of Uchiha.

Also, Jiraya attacked when Itachi had his back against him, I'd like to add that Itachi contradicted his statement and also that he said "at best it would be a tie".


I don't think Itachi's size has anything to do with it. He doesn't move when he strikes with the sword or blocks with the shield/arm. Look at the panels again, its as if susano-o has a mind of its own or is controlled with Itachi's mind/damaged eyes etc.

He controls the sword, not susano-o. The persective is Itachi's not Susano-o's. Therefore, Itachi would know where to strike human sized oppponents.

Sasuke is restrained by the sheer chakra if anything by Susano-o. From what I can tell the little wave things creating the wall is just like a force field keeping him inside the thing, not pinned down by anything, it was just fear which kept him from moving, probably from the thought of losing his eyes and to his brother of all people.

It's not fear. He was legitimately paralyzed/frozen by Susano-o. Sasuke was throwing his fire power at Itachi and this is when he used Susano-o on Sasuke.



Again, Orochimaru's hydra was on the verge of attacking Itachi, moving closer and closer at susano-o continued to decapitate the snake heads. In the last panel of ch. 392 one of the pages shows a sky view of susano- and the hydra being no more then perhaps ten feet from each other in terms of susano-'s body and the heads of the hydra. So they were extremely close to the other when heads started rolling.

Which is why Jiraiya would be more then prepared to counter, being quite the tactical fighter and all. He knows of Itachi's skills especially from seeing them first hand unlike Deidara and Oro, so surely he would be much more cautious when engaging him.

Once again, Orochimaru was no more than a foot from Itachi and had wanted his body. Jiraiya wants know such thing so he would be much more cautious when engaging Itachi. Not only that, but Jiraiya has the ability to break genjutsu's by shifting his chakra balance breaking the spell, the same technique he had taught Naruto to defend against genjutsu since he did not know the kai ability.

You can't assume what JIraya will and will not do. Jiraya has never been very able with genjutsu. He also told Naruto that even if controlling chakra does not work against genjutsu and there is no one to help you then you are pretty much done for.

Kenganan
05-30-2008, 01:35 AM
You can't assume what JIraya will and will not do. Jiraya has never been very able with genjutsu. He also told Naruto that even if controlling chakra does not work against genjutsu and there is no one to help you then you are pretty much done for.

Same with the fact that you dont know Jiraiya will or will not look into Itachi's eyes. Also, Jiraiya proved that when walking into very tough situations, he always provides a good cover for not only himself, but exceptional defenses almost all of the time. Much like the shadow ability he used against Konan and his force field to keep anything from reaching him, and killing anything that stumbled through it, Jiraiya has a very good arsenal of defending himself against attacks. Not to mention Ma and Pa, if he has those two with him, he could technically become immune to genjutsu by Tsyukomi standards seeing as how they could get him out of it.

Jiraya ran and hid in some place to activate hermit mode, this took a hell load of time. Also the frog song took a long time as well. Read the chapters.


I do read the chapters, apparently you don't.


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As I previously stated, Jiraiya was smacked into a wall by the summon and smacked it even further, he walked out of the hole with the Sennin Mode on. Please don't tell me or others to read chapters when apparently you clearly don't or can't bother to look at them yourself before making you look foolish. He was fighting the entire time against all of Pein's summons and was smacked into a wall, he walked out talking to Ma and Pa acting as if the attack didn't hurt him one bit. The only reason it took time to load was because Pain was relentless with attacking Jiraiya with four summons.

itachiisback
05-30-2008, 01:37 AM
Same with the fact that you dont know Jiraiya will or will not look into Itachi's eyes. Also, Jiraiya proved that when walking into very tough situations, he always provides a good cover for not only himself, but exceptional defenses almost all of the time. Much like the shadow ability he used against Konan and his force field to keep anything from reaching him, and killing anything that stumbled through it, Jiraiya has a very good arsenal of defending himself against attacks. Not to mention Ma and Pa, if he has those two with him, he could technically become immune to genjutsu by Tsyukomi standards seeing as how they could get him out of it.

I do read the chapters, apparently you don't.




As I previously stated, Jiraiya was smacked into a wall by the summon and smacked it even further, he walked out of the hole with the Sennin Mode on. Please don't tell me or others to read chapters when apparently you clearly don't or can't bother to look at them yourself before making you look foolish. He was fighting the entire time against all of Pein's summons and was smacked into a wall, he walked out talking to Ma and Pa acting as if the attack didn't hurt him one bit. The only reason it took time to load was because Pain was relentless with attacking Jiraiya with four summons.

Hermit mode is not instant like MS.
Also, Jiraya did in fact look right into Itachi's eyes in their encounter.

So much for your post.

Kenganan
05-30-2008, 01:48 AM
I never stated it was instant, I merely said it did not take as long as you made it out to be, like the frog song. Also, he looked into Itachi's eyes, and that was well before Itachi used both the Tsyukomi on Sasuke as well as the Amaterasu. If the two were to meet prior to their last engagement of course Jiraiya would be much more cautious the second time around, I stated this previously as well in my earlier posts back a few pages.

I also like how you said so much for your post, especially seeing as how I COMPLETELY proved you wrong about Jiraiya hiding to preform the hermit mode. Go read the chapters.

Oh and by the way, Itachi doesn't walk around with a perm Mangekyou Sharingan either, just the three tomoe, so if you want to get technical, Mangekyou Sharingan isn't instant either.

itachiisback
05-30-2008, 01:55 AM
I never stated it was instant, I merely said it did not take as long as you made it out to be, like the frog song. Also, he looked into Itachi's eyes, and that was well before Itachi used both the Tsyukomi on Sasuke as well as the Amaterasu. If the two were to meet prior to their last engagement of course Jiraiya would be much more cautious the second time around, I stated this previously as well in my earlier posts back a few pages.

I also like how you said so much for your post, especially seeing as how I COMPLETELY proved you wrong about Jiraiya hiding to preform the hermit mode. Go read the chapters.

Oh and by the way, Itachi doesn't walk around with a perm Mangekyou Sharingan either, just the three tomoe, so if you want to get technical, Mangekyou Sharingan isn't instant either.

Tsukyomi happens in an instnat. The moment Jiraya looked in his eyes, he would be mentally done for. Also, at that instant Itachi could have fried him with amaterasu.

I'm sorry i kind of got that part a bit wrong. I remembered it that way, hiding in a cave lol.

Itachi's techniques happen in an instant, both techniques that are not MS and MS.


Hey man, Jiraya is a strong individual. I know him to be a tough opponent for anyone. His dying moment had been one of the saddest parts of Naruto story. He was a good character but Itachi was a self taught genius.
Jiraya died showing his 100%. Itachi died showing a disease and not 100%.

Itachi his whole life has lied. He is a genjutsu god afterall.

What makes you think he didn't lie to Kisame about this?
Why would Kisame even question Itachi if he didn't know something was up with him...

Kisame has been his partner all his life. Clearly, Kisame would know that something is up and he did. Therefore, he questions why he couldn't take him even knowing the sannin reputation.

Kenganan
05-30-2008, 02:00 AM
Let's agree to disagree :/

itachiisback
05-30-2008, 03:50 AM
If that's the way you want to end the argument then fine.

platinumrug
05-31-2008, 12:48 AM
Itachi is beast in his own respects, and Jiraiya is beast in his own respects. There are several things that both shinobis have over each other, exp, pms, hermit mode, better katon, blah blah and blah. They're both fantastic shinobis, leave it at that.

Xicidal
05-31-2008, 01:15 AM
Tsukyomi happens in an instnat. The moment Jiraya looked in his eyes, he would be mentally done for. Also, at that instant Itachi could have fried him with amaterasu.

I'm sorry i kind of got that part a bit wrong. I remembered it that way, hiding in a cave lol.

Itachi's techniques happen in an instant, both techniques that are not MS and MS.


Hey man, Jiraya is a strong individual. I know him to be a tough opponent for anyone. His dying moment had been one of the saddest parts of Naruto story. He was a good character but Itachi was a self taught genius.
Jiraya died showing his 100%. Itachi died showing a disease and not 100%.

Itachi his whole life has lied. He is a genjutsu god afterall.

What makes you think he didn't lie to Kisame about this?
Why would Kisame even question Itachi if he didn't know something was up with him...

Kisame has been his partner all his life. Clearly, Kisame would know that something is up and he did. Therefore, he questions why he couldn't take him even knowing the sannin reputation.

And some could stab ether one of them in the back with out them noticing.... its pointless to argue over speculations at best. Sas.. had time to use kami or whatever to avoid it so its plausible for someone else with more experiences and what not to come up with a way to avoid it as well. Especially sense he knows what it is already, pfff. The only way we will know for sure is if the writer writes it or says it. <shakes heads> Theirs easily a 100 different outcomes with ether winning ease.

itachiisback
05-31-2008, 04:39 AM
And some could stab ether one of them in the back with out them noticing.... its pointless to argue over speculations at best. Sas.. had time to use kami or whatever to avoid it so its plausible for someone else with more experiences and what not to come up with a way to avoid it as well. Especially sense he knows what it is already, pfff. The only way we will know for sure is if the writer writes it or says it. <shakes heads> Theirs easily a 100 different outcomes with ether winning ease.

Sasuke has trained all his life specifically to fight against Itachi. It's no surprise he would know more about Itachi, especially being his brother and all, than anyone else.

Again, Sasuke battled and trained with nins that Itachi beat and did research.

Xicidal
06-01-2008, 10:00 AM
Sasuke has trained all his life specifically to fight against Itachi. It's no surprise he would know more about Itachi, especially being his brother and all, than anyone else.

Again, Sasuke battled and trained with nins that Itachi beat and did research.

And J-man didn't seal the black flame and takeoff with it. lol
J-man found out about the tech the same time sasuke did. He already knew about itachi genjutsu move as well. You think Kakashi wouldn't tell other people about it? lol
What a joke, like J-man didn't know about am and ty.. before hand. The Susunno would have been the only surprise and once he figured out what it was he would have known what the deal was with it sense it was legendary.
You assume people are ignorant just because said person was not there main goal.
The only thing Sasuke had over J man was maybe some info from Or... and not as familiar with sharigan, that's a given sense he doesn't have it like Sasuke.

Like I said there are over a 100 different situations where ether could win, and all you got say is that Itachi would win because Jairiya wouldn't know a way to avoid am.. because he didn't abbess over it like sasuke.

Where was it ever said that Sasuke trained with ninja's besides Or.. that fought Itachi and lost? Jairiya got info from Kakashi who lost to him as well, so things are even in that aspect. Your whole argument is based on the fact that Jairiya knew nothing when he clearly already had experiences and info about said jutsu.

itachiisback
06-03-2008, 03:42 AM
And J-man didn't seal the black flame and takeoff with it. lol
J-man found out about the tech the same time sasuke did. He already knew about itachi genjutsu move as well. You think Kakashi wouldn't tell other people about it? lol
What a joke, like J-man didn't know about am and ty.. before hand. The Susunno would have been the only surprise and once he figured out what it was he would have known what the deal was with it sense it was legendary.
You assume people are ignorant just because said person was not there main goal.
The only thing Sasuke had over J man was maybe some info from Or... and not as familiar with sharigan, that's a given sense he doesn't have it like Sasuke.

Like I said there are over a 100 different situations where ether could win, and all you got say is that Itachi would win because Jairiya wouldn't know a way to avoid am.. because he didn't abbess over it like sasuke.

Where was it ever said that Sasuke trained with ninja's besides Or.. that fought Itachi and lost? Jairiya got info from Kakashi who lost to him as well, so things are even in that aspect. Your whole argument is based on the fact that Jairiya knew nothing when he clearly already had experiences and info about said jutsu.


Sasuke's experience and knowledge of Itachi >>>> Jiraya's.
Hell, Jiraya had enough knowledge of Itachi to look directly at his eyes. So much experience huh?
At that instant, if Itachi chose to he could have burned him alive with amaterasu.

Also, just becasue Kakashi may have informed everyone about Tsukyomi doesn't mean people will form ways to counter it. In fact, it can't be countered and to find a way to counter it you need to have first-hand experience which Jiraya doesn't . Tsukyomi cannot be countered.

Itachi and Kisame were talking about the sannins in general. In flashback, Itachi pawned Orochimaru like he was nothing. Clearly, Itachi was lying to KIsame.

lan2cp
06-04-2008, 06:00 PM
Sasuke's experience and knowledge of Itachi >>>> Jiraya's.
Hell, Jiraya had enough knowledge of Itachi to look directly at his eyes. So much experience huh?
At that instant, if Itachi chose to he could have burned him alive with amaterasu.


Yeah, and the moment Itachi closed his eyes to prepare it, Jiraiya would have just stood there like a dumbass. I don't think so.:rolleyes:

itachiisback
06-04-2008, 08:57 PM
Yeah, and the moment Itachi closed his eyes to prepare it, Jiraiya would have just stood there like a dumbass. I don't think so.:rolleyes:

MS is instant. Jiraya has to use space/time jutsu to be able to avoid it...

Avian
06-04-2008, 11:33 PM
MS is instant. Jiraya has to use space/time jutsu to be able to avoid it...

Yeah Jiraiya will most probably get caught but then Ma and Pa Frog will bombard Itachi's ass with everything they got and then... BOOM!! down goes Itachi... so much for the great MS.

Like i said before is basically 3 againts 1. Itachi has to strike 1st before Jiraiya get a chance to power-up thats the only way he'll win. But the fact is Jiraiya have knowledge about the Sharingan and its capabilities so its gonna be tough.

YondaimeBunshin
06-05-2008, 12:21 AM
I personally am gonna go with the manga, implied or explicit, Itachi conceded that Jiraya was too strong to take on even with Kisame, even with more Aka members. I am not quite Jman fanboy status, but pretty close, I don't want to dispel the legend even if Itachi had some awesome, powerful and flashy Uchiha hax.

Pokeman2
06-05-2008, 01:43 AM
hey jaimefox reply to my pm.

lan2cp
06-05-2008, 08:53 AM
MS is instant. Jiraya has to use space/time jutsu to be able to avoid it...

I don't remember that being said in the manga. But if you would be so kind to redirect me to where it is said, I would appreciate it.

EDIT: Just to place an example, Itachi focused chackra in his eye throughout all of chapter 389 just to use Amaterasu, so that's proof that its not instant.

BlackKakashi31
06-05-2008, 09:35 AM
Itachi was a beast. I found something inaccurate in your post Itachiisback. Itachi's genjutsu was countered by the regular sharigan. You make the assumption that because Itachi was lying to his lil bro, that he was lying about everything else. I find that hard to believe. Again, Itachi is a beast, but I'm not so sure that he would win this fight going away as you say he would. Personally, I like Itachi and J-man equally. That being said, I'm going to have to go with what Itachi said in the manga.

trondah
06-06-2008, 09:20 AM
I don't remember that being said in the manga. But if you would be so kind to redirect me to where it is said, I would appreciate it.

EDIT: Just to place an example, Itachi focused chackra in his eye throughout all of chapter 389 just to use Amaterasu, so that's proof that its not instant.

It's not. But it's shown that Tsukuyomi takes effect just by looking into the eyes of the user, and Amaterasu is said to burn anything the user sees. Sasuke could not outrun it, and he is pretty fast.

lan2cp
06-06-2008, 09:52 AM
It's not. But it's shown that Tsukuyomi takes effect just by looking into the eyes of the user, and Amaterasu is said to burn anything the user sees. Sasuke could not outrun it, and he is pretty fast.

I don't think that Sasuke is faster than Jiraiya. Nonetheless, he would have problems unless he manages to use his barrier in time.

akuryuken
06-07-2008, 06:01 AM
I don't think that Sasuke is faster than Jiraiya. Nonetheless, he would have problems unless he manages to use his barrier in time.

you are right J-man > sasuke in speed, ninjutsu, experience, taijutsu, and he know how to block genjutsu. If some1 think that sasuke is better than J-man then put him fight Pain an lets see how many second he live.:rolleyes:

kyuubi14
06-07-2008, 03:51 PM
Wait just one second Itachiisback you claim that MS, and all the other techniques he has take an instant to strike? Lets look back on that shall we.

1.(Amaterasu) It takes him a hell of a lot of time to charge it. There may be a payoff AFTERWARDS but lets compare it to the Spartan Laser from Halo. One hit kill(definently), Long charge time (check), abililty to see it coming from a million miles away also check. Jiraya would have dodged the shit out of it. He's had 3 years to analyze it and come up with a defense. THREE GODDAMN YEARS!!!!! Thats enough time to observe, create counter attack, and prepare defense.

2. (Tsukuyomi) I have no idea how everyone thinks this is the most beast move ever created by man. As far as I've seen it's been broken out of by Naruto(Yes he was in TS when he fought Itachi's clone watch for the MS in the panel why would he have it out if he didn't use it?) it's been countered by Sasuke. And even Gai and Kakashi managed to avoid it for a while by not looking into his eyes. It's possible to win without looking into the MS. I doubt and I mean Heavily doubt that if Jiraya was caught in the Tsukynomi he'd be game over. I'm just finding it unrealistic that there's no counter attack. He has a massive amount of chakra to overload his system with and cancel the Jutsu out. Not instant but close.

3. (Susano-o) Basically a big clay soldier that acts as a big chakra shield/sword. I'm not saying it's not kickass. It absolutely is but also easily strikeable/dodgeable. Jiraya's hellswamp would just sink it. I don't think that thing can jump if you know what I'm saying. Toad song would be just as effective if not more-so because I wonder if Itachi can even move in that thing. His hearing would be just as good. In my opinion the only alternative Jiraya would have would be to have Ma and Pa frog do some sort of crazy genjutsu to Itachi to convince him to lower Susanoo or something. But Hellswamp would be the end of Itachi in this case. Charge time is high.

4. (Itachi's Genjutsu) They're hella powerful we know that. However when you people (Itachiisback *cough*) say that Jiraya isn't good with Genjutsu you're absolutely right. However he has TWO count'em TWO mythical animals with him who are masters of genjutsu. No matter what you tell me NO HUMAN TECHNIQUE TRUMPS SUMMON TECHNIQUES. I think a few people would identify with me. And don't pull the whole "Akatsuki caught tailed beasts" because we all know that they aren't that strong alone.

5. (Itachi's Summons)...oh wait there are none. Susanoo doesn't and you know it. Just a shield boys.

6. (Taijutsu) Goes to Jiraya. No need for explanation.

7.(Speed) Goes to Itachi all the way. Even after Hermit mode I might give the edge to Itachi.

8.(Experience) Yes it is a factor. Hand it once again to Jiraya.

Look thats only a few things in the so-called J-mans defense. Itachi is a kickass Ninja we all know that. But calling him a god is just a level below d*ck-riding my friend. He's amazing and all but nothing we haven't seen by the likes of Yondaime, Jiraya, and Hanzou. Even though we technically haven't seen that much of Hanzou. I'm finished for now but you guys get the idea.

trondah
06-07-2008, 04:32 PM
you are right J-man > sasuke in speed, ninjutsu, experience, taijutsu, and he know how to block genjutsu. If some1 think that sasuke is better than J-man then put him fight Pain an lets see how many second he live.:rolleyes:

Show me where anybody in the manga states that Jiraiya is fast? Sasuke have been shown many times to be fast.

I'm not saying he's better than J-man, but there's reason to believe he might be faster. Impossible to say though as we have no facts.

To kyuubi14: God job pulling all that out of your ass. It's all wrong, or false assumptions.

Nerox
06-07-2008, 05:32 PM
i give this to j-man...

i like the old pervy sage =)

ceep on rockin' pervert ! xD

kyuubi14
06-07-2008, 06:53 PM
Trondah would you like to explain why or are you just being an asshole because you're ashole? All my info is from facts. Facts that have already been confirmed in this thread. So please tell me where I'm wrong. And I don't assume, and please leave my ass out of this little guy.

MikeyM1979
06-07-2008, 06:59 PM
This is still going on?

Let's look at it like this...

Jiraiya showed everything he's got against a damn near Godly ninja like Pain, and Pain stated that had Jiraiya not been so ignorant, he would have beaten Pain. Now, this was the first, serious fight we got to see Jiraiya in, and it was one hell of a fight. While Pain most likely still had much more in his bag of tricks and abilities, Jiraiya alone did reasonably well against Pain's bodies. He showed us why he's a Sannin.

Now, we can't exactly put up too much of an argument for Itachi, because frankly, we never saw him fight at 100%. His fight against Sasuke was utter bullshit. Because a) Itachi had no intentions of killing Sasuke, nor taking his eyes, b) Itachi didn't take the fight seriously, c) Itachi was stricken a while ago with a life threatening disease, so he was weakened going into the fight, and finally, e) Itachi, prior to his fight with Sasuke, gave part of his power to Naruto. So based on that, Jiraiya would curbstomp Itachi like no one's business.

On a side note, all those things I pointed out above really makes Sasuke look like a shitty ninja! xD

kyuubi14
06-07-2008, 07:17 PM
I'm not really confrontation and this thread is actually really fun. All vs. threads are but its just some people getting pissed that others immediatly dismiss them as wrong with no reason. People please if someone states that someone else is stronger than them please let it be. Why would he lie about that. He didn't have to say shit to Kisame he could have just said let's leave and that'd be it. Jiraya would rape Itachi then make him apologize for being raped.

akuryuken
06-07-2008, 07:21 PM
I'm not really confrontation and this thread is actually really fun. All vs. threads are but its just some people getting pissed that others immediatly dismiss them as wrong with no reason. People please if someone states that someone else is stronger than them please let it be. Why would he lie about that. He didn't have to say shit to Kisame he could have just said let's leave and that'd be it. Jiraya would rape Itachi then make him apologize for being raped.

Amen man, Amen

MikeyM1979
06-07-2008, 07:23 PM
I'm not really confrontation and this thread is actually really fun. All vs. threads are but its just some people getting pissed that others immediatly dismiss them as wrong with no reason. People please if someone states that someone else is stronger than them please let it be. Why would he lie about that. He didn't have to say shit to Kisame he could have just said let's leave and that'd be it. Jiraya would rape Itachi then make him apologize for being raped.
My intentions aren't to defend Itachi in this thread, but, you do know that Itachi never had intentions of killing anyone from Konoha, right? He loved his village, and even asked Sandaime to help keep Sasuke safe/alive. If Itachi wanted to, he could have killed those Jounin, when he and Kisame visited Konoha. If he wanted to, he could have taken Naruto at anytime for the bijuu extraction. He could have also killed Sasuke at anytime. That says a lot about his character. Itachi had no reason to fight Jiraiya, and he had no intentions of fighting him, because he wasn't an enemy.

HoboAssassin
06-07-2008, 07:46 PM
Alright kyuubi since you are whining I'll go ahead and dismantle your argument.

Wait just one second Itachiisback you claim that MS, and all the other techniques he has take an instant to strike? Lets look back on that shall we.

1.(Amaterasu) It takes him a hell of a lot of time to charge it. There may be a payoff AFTERWARDS but lets compare it to the Spartan Laser from Halo. One hit kill(definently), Long charge time (check), abililty to see it coming from a million miles away also check. Jiraya would have dodged the shit out of it. He's had 3 years to analyze it and come up with a defense. THREE GODDAMN YEARS!!!!! Thats enough time to observe, create counter attack, and prepare defense.
Where did you get that it takes a long time to charge it? Thats complete bullshit. How would Jiraiya analyze it? He didn't even see the attack itself, he just saw the aftermath and the effect that Amaterasu had on his frog stomach.

2. (Tsukuyomi) I have no idea how everyone thinks this is the most beast move ever created by man. As far as I've seen it's been broken out of by Naruto(Yes he was in TS when he fought Itachi's clone watch for the MS in the panel why would he have it out if he didn't use it?) it's been countered by Sasuke. And even Gai and Kakashi managed to avoid it for a while by not looking into his eyes. It's possible to win without looking into the MS. I doubt and I mean Heavily doubt that if Jiraya was caught in the Tsukynomi he'd be game over. I'm just finding it unrealistic that there's no counter attack. He has a massive amount of chakra to overload his system with and cancel the Jutsu out. Not instant but close.
Dude once again complete bullshit, Naruto was never in TS. You have no concrete proof that Itachi used TS besides your assumption. Plus if Naruto was in TS he would have never escaped- Naruto freaking sucks when it comes to casting or getting out of genjutsu. Most of the time he gets stuck in Itachi's low level crow jutsu. So try rereading the chapter- actually just try reading the whole series because it seems you read everything wrong. Gai never avoided it because the genjutsu was never even cast on him. When Gai came the genjutsu was well over and Kisame was about to finish off Kakashi--and btw Kakashi never managed to avoid it. Onto with Jiraiya avoiding it, we don't know if Jiraiya even could because he doesn't really have much experience from fighting experienced sharingan users (the only experience sharingan users we know are Itachi, Madara, and Sasuke, the rest are way below their level considering it took Itachi and Madara no time in disposing them).

3. (Susano-o) Basically a big clay soldier that acts as a big chakra shield/sword. I'm not saying it's not kickass. It absolutely is but also easily strikeable/dodgeable. Jiraya's hellswamp would just sink it. I don't think that thing can jump if you know what I'm saying. Toad song would be just as effective if not more-so because I wonder if Itachi can even move in that thing. His hearing would be just as good. In my opinion the only alternative Jiraya would have would be to have Ma and Pa frog do some sort of crazy genjutsu to Itachi to convince him to lower Susanoo or something. But Hellswamp would be the end of Itachi in this case. Charge time is high.

For one thing we don't really know much about Susanoo. But we do know, its not a clay soldier, and it's fucking huge, so none of Jiraiya's "hellswamp" attacks would be able to envelop it. And I also don't think you can cast a genjutsu on it, maybe on Itachi when he's in it, but I dont' see any reason for Itachi to summon Susanoo unless if he needs a big defense (like against Gama ) And where do you keep pulling this charge bullshit from? I and probably everyone else on this board have seen no facts on how much charge certain attacks have. Stop pulling that out of your ass.
4. (Itachi's Genjutsu) They're hella powerful we know that. However when you people (Itachiisback *cough*) say that Jiraya isn't good with Genjutsu you're absolutely right. However he has TWO count'em TWO mythical animals with him who are masters of genjutsu. No matter what you tell me NO HUMAN TECHNIQUE TRUMPS SUMMON TECHNIQUES. I think a few people would identify with me. And don't pull the whole "Akatsuki caught tailed beasts" because we all know that they aren't that strong alone.

Once again, you'll pulling some more shit out of your ass. The two frogs have not been established as masters of genjutsu. We only know of one good genjutsu attack, but that definitely does not make them masters. Once again you're pulling NO HUMAN TECHNIQUE TRUMPS SUMMON TECHNIQUES straight out of your ass.
5. (Itachi's Summons)...oh wait there are none. Susanoo doesn't and you know it. Just a shield boys.

Um, it's been shown in Itachi's mini-fight versus Orochimaru that Susanoo is also a very formidable offensive weapon.
6. (Taijutsu) Goes to Jiraya. No need for explanation.

Um yes there is a need for explanation. Itachi's sharingan definitely gives him an edge over Jiraiya, or at least breaking even, when it comes to taijutsu.

MikeyM1979
06-07-2008, 07:53 PM
Um, yeah. For the record, Naruto was never in Tsukuyomi. Also, Sasuke didn't counter Tsukuyomi. He survived/resisted it. Big difference.

HoboAssassin
06-08-2008, 03:45 AM
Um, yeah. For the record, Naruto was never in Tsukuyomi. Also, Sasuke didn't counter Tsukuyomi. He survived/resisted it. Big difference.
The also little tidbit with Sasuke was that Itachi wasn't trying to kill him. Itachi was trying to back Sasuke in a corner and tire him so orochimaru would come out.

trondah
06-08-2008, 09:17 AM
Ahahah! HoboAssassin, reading your post was like rethinking my exact thoughts.

kyuubi14 you just need to read the whole manga over again or something. You got it all wrong. It's so wrong I didn't even feel the need to explain why. Anyways Hobo did it for me.

And by the way, I'm five years older than you if that matters "little man".

kyuubi14
06-08-2008, 12:32 PM
Age is just a number dude.

Now tell me how Jiraya couldn't analyze it. He took a sample of the fire.
Amaterasu is not a technique that he could just pull out of his arsenal at anytime its an assumption I'll give you that but name me one jutsu, any jutsu you can think of THAT powerful and tell me you could just use it willy nilly. Also the whole survive/resisted TS is kinda what I meant I'm sorry if I worded it wrong. You're also trying to convince me that a human goes over a mystical creature. Hell no I refuse to believe an earthly being has precedence over a heavenly or demonic creature. Even Orochimaru was afraid of Manda(sp?)
As for the whole whether naruto was or was not in TS I went back and looked at that chapter and something bothers me. Why does Itachi have out his MS at all times? Well let me correct myself MOST times if he's not using it. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong but give me facts don't be a little sandy vagina about your lack of an arguement. Kinda sounds like Trondah needs a hug or something. Its ok little fella I'm here for you. You know when someone says some stupid shit like it's so wrong I don't need to explain it then usually they're full of shit just like you asshole. SMD.

Now back to the topic. Taijutsu definently goes to Jiraya because Sharingan aside when do we ever see Itachi use high level taijutsu. All I saw was a few kicks. Unimpressive kicks.His speed is definenly a factor but I haven't seen it yet I'm sorry. And as for the arguement of Susanoo it is absolutely a great weapon no arguements here but as little as we've seen I can't say for sure what I can and can't do this is why I use the words maybe and probably. There's a difference between constructive criticism and being a dick fellas.

Evil[Angel]
06-09-2008, 05:41 AM
First of whog vies a fuk what madara said FACT IS SHODAIME WHOOPED HIS ASSS and he didn't ahve sharingan he perhaps means a common strong ninja woudl have a lot of chance orochiamru and deidara are good examples they are powerful but not that powerful.

People like jiraiya,shodaime,sarutobi,mianto,nidaime are leaders and chosen for hoakge as a reason.

These guys would kill nearly anyone if not anyone jiraiya lost only because he figured out the secret to late pein still barely won he lsot 4 times and 1 body permentley he admitted to jiraiya being stronger pein was a mna who was chosen by amdara to lead akak if itachi was stronger then he woudl be chosen.


Susuanoo wouldn't come out because jiraiya would kill him before that as shown in the manga he needed to use both tsukuyomia dn amaterasu before he uses susanoo that's how it is and even logcialy it's like that.


First he got to use tsukuyomi before he uses amaterasu then susano after amaterasu so it wouldn't be right to use susanoo before weaker attacks he has never shown the ability to use amaterasu before tsukuyomi meaning susanoo isn't any different.

As for what itachi said he said that without knwoing of hermit mode and at best he would just killh im and go down together through hermit mode into that and it's a wrap.

Jiraiya sis tronger end of story itachi has nothing that he can use to save his ass from hellswamo even he does get past toad stomach.

Hellswamp is still an issue heis katon are crap comapred to the oens jiraiya uses.

Jiraiya power is more then enough to blind him for good one kick or punch is all it takes in hm and lights out for itachi he is way smrter then itachi and with the toads brain even more smarter.

Jiraiya is packing much more heat then itachi.



Dude, learn too spell.

trondah
06-09-2008, 05:51 AM
Then just refer to me as trondah and not "little man", thanks.

Jiraiya could analyze the fire, but he doesn't know the attack. He will know it's a fire that can't be extinguished and he better get the fuck outta dodge if he sees it. He doesn't know it burns everything the user looks at.

Please show me where Orochimaru is shown to be afraid of Manda.

You keep saying Itachi has his MS activated, where is that? When they are fighting his clone, he is even explaining he CAN'T use his MS at the time.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/259/14/

Here's an illustration showing Naruto being owned by regular genjutsu.

Seriously, are you still claiming that stuff you pulled out of your ass is fact?


Generally, a fact is defined as something that is true, something that actually exists, or something that can be verified according to an established standard of evaluation.[1][2] There is a range of other uses, depending on the context. For example, fact may be argued under authority of a specific pedagogy, such as scientific facts or historical facts. Rhetorical assertion of fact is often forwarded without an implied or express basis of authority.


Fact from ass of kyuubi14: (Amaterasu) It takes him a hell of a lot of time to charge it.
Real fact: No it doesn't, he burns through the frog stomach pretty quick.

Fact from ass of kyuubi14: (Tsukuyomi) I have no idea how everyone thinks this is the most beast move ever created by man. As far as I've seen it's been broken out of by Naruto(Yes he was in TS when he fought Itachi's clone watch for the MS in the panel why would he have it out if he didn't use it?)
Real fact: Naruto was never in Tsukuyomi.

Fact from ass of kyuubi14: (Susano-o) Basically a big clay soldier that acts as a big chakra shield/sword.
Clay soldier? WTF??? Acts as a sword? WTF?

Sharingan aside, taijutsu goes to Jiraiya? WTF??? Itachi HAS the sharingan, thus he can see through all taijutsu, ninjutsu and genjutsu. Depending on his ability he can also perform at the same level, and Itachi is shown to have a GREAT ability.

Why do I even bother, I'm just repeating what HoboAssassin said. You just ignored that whole post and pulled everything out of your ass ONE MORE TIME.

Constructive criticism???? How can you give constructive criticism when you are claiming your daydreams to be facts? Geez.

Evil[Angel]
06-10-2008, 05:32 AM
Chill Bitch.

trondah
06-10-2008, 07:04 AM
;1518743']Dude, learn too spell.

It's learn TO spell "bitch".

lan2cp
06-11-2008, 03:28 PM
It's learn TO spell "bitch".
Lol this is getting out of hand. It seems that the fanboys from both parties are the only ones arguing still.:p

trondah
06-12-2008, 05:47 AM
Lol this is getting out of hand. It seems that the fanboys from both parties are the only ones arguing still.:p

Well, I didn't take anybody's side yet, just pointed out some seriously flawed "facts" coming from one fanboy.

jagglerclod
06-12-2008, 10:12 AM
if itachi is at 100% fighting level and jiraiya is also at 100% fighting level, itachi will win..

but with itachi's conditon in his fight with sasuke, he can still win against jiraiya but at a 50-50 winning percentage.

kyuubi14
06-16-2008, 01:15 PM
First off I'm not a fanboy fag. Second please explain how I'm wrong instead of one sentences answers and WTF's. I'm not claiming anything as ABSOLUTE fact except for the things that are proven to be true. SUCH AS Susano being a shield/sword. IT ATTACKS AND DEFENDS YOU PIECE OF SHIT!!! God damn if you cant see that then your as stupid as you sound. I don't have to explain the taijutsu at all. Its possible to beat the Sharingan. Get your mouth off Itachi's dick for a second and look past all the hype. You say he can perform on the same level as Jiraya. Bullshit and you fucking know it. 30+ years of experience which includes years of Sharingan observation (because you know FOR A FACT that if the Uchiha's were public enemy #1 that the council or whatever you'd call it would have their BIGGEST WEAPON observed and analyzed. I know they couldn't have observed the MS I know alrite you don't have to tell me. Trondah ( there are you happy?) you are the biggest fanboy on this board going as far as to berate other people to make yourself feel good about your false truths. Whoever said the Amateresu wasnt analyzed as an attack just the after effect, I'm sure you can't ignore the fact that Jiraya could have formed a way to either block of defend himself against the attack. You have to think outside just the stated facts to read inbetween the lines. Use your common sense (which people around here seem to think is being wrong or misinterpreting the manga). So please I beg you pull out some manga chapters and prove me wrong. I want to see how the high and mighty fanboys can get even more pissed when their allpowerful God Itachi is shown to be just a mere mortal.


P.S.- Trondah I heard Itachi likes it when you swallow.

HoboAssassin
06-16-2008, 11:37 PM
First off I'm not a fanboy fag. Second please explain how I'm wrong instead of one sentences answers and WTF's. I'm not claiming anything as ABSOLUTE fact except for the things that are proven to be true. SUCH AS Susano being a shield/sword. IT ATTACKS AND DEFENDS YOU PIECE OF SHIT!!! God damn if you cant see that then your as stupid as you sound. I don't have to explain the taijutsu at all. Its possible to beat the Sharingan. Get your mouth off Itachi's dick for a second and look past all the hype. You say he can perform on the same level as Jiraya. Bullshit and you fucking know it. 30+ years of experience which includes years of Sharingan observation (because you know FOR A FACT that if the Uchiha's were public enemy #1 that the council or whatever you'd call it would have their BIGGEST WEAPON observed and analyzed. I know they couldn't have observed the MS I know alrite you don't have to tell me. Trondah ( there are you happy?) you are the biggest fanboy on this board going as far as to berate other people to make yourself feel good about your false truths. Whoever said the Amateresu wasnt analyzed as an attack just the after effect, I'm sure you can't ignore the fact that Jiraya could have formed a way to either block of defend himself against the attack. You have to think outside just the stated facts to read inbetween the lines. Use your common sense (which people around here seem to think is being wrong or misinterpreting the manga). So please I beg you pull out some manga chapters and prove me wrong. I want to see how the high and mighty fanboys can get even more pissed when their allpowerful God Itachi is shown to be just a mere mortal.


P.S.- Trondah I heard Itachi likes it when you swallow.
Wow, try going on this forum when you're not on your period.

you are the biggest fanboy on this board going as far as to berate other people to make yourself feel good about your false truths.
Haha it's so ironic because you're the one saying that.

Whoever said the Amateresu wasnt analyzed as an attack just the after effect, I'm sure you can't ignore the fact that Jiraya could have formed a way to either block of defend himself against the attack.

I said that, and please tell me how the fuck he would do that? You're completely pulling that out of your ass. There was only an after effect of the flame on the frog stomach, wtf do you expect him to do? Take it to a lab and use his scientific equipment to analyze what it's made out of. Oh yes and from there he can definitely find out a way how to block or defend himself from it, seeing that he'll also suddenly gain the knowledge in how the attack is initiated/how it starts-which is most crucial for amaterasu.


So please I beg you pull out some manga chapters and prove me wrong.
Seriously dude, you are pulling the same old crap out of your ass. So why don't you trying pulling up some manga chapters to support what you're saying.

mrpiimpnn
06-17-2008, 01:40 AM
This argument needs to be put to rest.

Itachi the child prodigy, at a mere age of 11 years old destroyed Orochimaru with but a kunai and genjutsu. In fact, Itachi let the poor sucker live to tell the tale.
Itachi at 11 years old pawned Deidara. Itachi at 11 years of age was a member of Akatsuki. Itachi at the age of 11-13 threatened the elders of the village for the safety of Sasuke.

In fact Sandaime even says - " A shinobi that can take on Orochimaru does not exist in this village at this moment " - after this quote Itachi appears in Konoha. Clearly Sandaime was thinking of Itachi. Itachi >>>>>>>>>> Orochimaru. There is no doubt about this. If you deny this then you are ignorant and biased.

You say Itachi was not trying to kill Orochimaru while you can say the same the other way around. Itachi was playing Orochimaru like a fool. Itachi did not even kill him in the end.

Now, we've been through Itachi's character and background story. Clearly, his initial interest in coming to Konoha was to check on the safety of his younger brother and to warn the elders that he still lives to protect Sasuke.

Itachi never wanted any harm done to Konoha's nins. You should be able to see that Itachi is playing around with the elite jounin of konoha.

In fact, the only reason he even took out the MS was to show Kakashi the power of a true Uchiha - this shows pride not weakness. Itachi did not need to end the fight so quickly using MS... 2 - 3 moves of his ninjutsu or 1 move of his genjutsu would have done it, kakashi would have been dead. Another point, "Why didn't he kill me... he could have if he wanted to..." Itachi did NOT even kill Kakashi under tsukyomi.

And i even see people saying Kakashi and Itachi are on the same league. Bitch, please.
If Kakashi can't take Kakuzu 1 on 1 and is on par with Hidan than he has no chance in hell against Itachi who can potentially take both Kakuzu and Hidan together.

Now i am a fan but i am basing all this information on true manga facts, i am not biased. I am not saying that Itachi is the stronger or whatever. In fact, he admitted that if he had EMS he could defeat Madara. Therefore, we can say that the only thing dictating the power levels of Madara from Itachi is the EMS Madara has.

Now for the Jiraya debate.

NOw i ask you one question. ...

In a fight of Itachi against Orochimaru and Tsunade... who would win?
Being the prodigy and the destroyer of a whole clan of elite level ninja, Itachi with his unimaginable speed wins. Even the sharingan is unable to catch his speed, his jutsu speed included.

Itachi who pawns Orochimaru in 2 panels moves onto the weaker Tsunade. THis is no match. Itachi wins.

Now what's to say that he can't take on the whole sannin crew?
This is not a farfetched claim since many have been said to be able to do so.

Itachi was given the position of Minato, in fact the very throne Itachi was sitting on symbolized Minato's position in the fight against Kyuubi.
Itachi may very well be > = to Minato who is undoubtedly > Jiraya.

Itachi being the hero of Konoha would never harm the toad sannin who lives by the live of fire.

Itachi's whole life is a lie. I am willing to bet this was one of the many lies Itachi pulled with Kisame to get out of the situation and go somewhere peaceful and rest or w/e,,,

It's not something new that Itachi lies and mostly with Kisame. Kisame even questions why he has to avoid the fight. Kisame clearly knows what Itachi is capable of. In fact, i'm sure Itachi has kicked Kisame's ass at one time.

Itachi had no intention in capturing Naruto, he never did. He came, he saw, he conquered. Too bad, Gai was a second away from joining the Jiraya vs Itachi/Kisame duel. Who knows how many anbu were following GAI....

Itachi did the smart thing. He knew Kisame would not listen if he said anything else...

Itachi is > sannin.

THANK YOU

I love Jiraiya so much and I think he's the shit, but You are right Itachi is a very powerful person and could have possibly defeated all 3 sanin at once :< even though it hurts my feeling to say it but yea, Itachi is better.

Itachi > Sanin.

trondah
06-17-2008, 04:49 AM
First off I'm not a fanboy fag. Second please explain how I'm wrong instead of one sentences answers and WTF's. I'm not claiming anything as ABSOLUTE fact except for the things that are proven to be true. SUCH AS Susano being a shield/sword. IT ATTACKS AND DEFENDS YOU PIECE OF SHIT!!! God damn if you cant see that then your as stupid as you sound. I don't have to explain the taijutsu at all. Its possible to beat the Sharingan. Get your mouth off Itachi's dick for a second and look past all the hype. You say he can perform on the same level as Jiraya. Bullshit and you fucking know it. 30+ years of experience which includes years of Sharingan observation (because you know FOR A FACT that if the Uchiha's were public enemy #1 that the council or whatever you'd call it would have their BIGGEST WEAPON observed and analyzed. I know they couldn't have observed the MS I know alrite you don't have to tell me. Trondah ( there are you happy?) you are the biggest fanboy on this board going as far as to berate other people to make yourself feel good about your false truths. Whoever said the Amateresu wasnt analyzed as an attack just the after effect, I'm sure you can't ignore the fact that Jiraya could have formed a way to either block of defend himself against the attack. You have to think outside just the stated facts to read inbetween the lines. Use your common sense (which people around here seem to think is being wrong or misinterpreting the manga). So please I beg you pull out some manga chapters and prove me wrong. I want to see how the high and mighty fanboys can get even more pissed when their allpowerful God Itachi is shown to be just a mere mortal.


P.S.- Trondah I heard Itachi likes it when you swallow.

I really wonder where you are getting all this from. How many different types of fact are there? Isn't a normal fact an "absolute fact"? I think you need to look up the definition of the word.

"You say he can perform on the same level as Jiraya"

Where did I say this? Please, show me. Anyways, it's difficult to find anything in your posts worthy of discussion, it's mixed in with so much garbage I don't even bother to read your whole posts. Your insults only serve to amuse me and the others around here.

kluang
06-17-2008, 05:19 AM
OK!!!!!!!!

Firstly. Susanoo is a shield. Just a shield. That sword Itachi use, is not in the package of Susanoo. He found that sword.

Secondly, yes Jiraiya cannot use genjutsu but doesn't mean he can fight Itachi. He just run back, use hermit mode, sing the hermit song and bam, Itachi K.O.
Don't believe me? Read back a few chap, that say sound genjutsu is the best because they use it at a distance unlike eye genjutsu.

Even Itachi knows his MS limits. He won't pick a fight with someone such as Jiraiya, Madara, Pain that a single strike of Tsukoyomi, Susanoo and Amaratesu won't do.

trondah
06-17-2008, 06:04 AM
How do you know who Itachi wouldn't pick a fight with, and what the limits of MS are? This Itachi vs Jiraiya argument can't come to an end unless we saw them in a fight. Itachi has been shown to be far past Orochimaru, that should tell you not to underestimate Itachi. Jiraiya spent most of his life OBSERVING Orochimaru.

Still not taking anybody's side.

kluang
06-17-2008, 10:13 AM
How do you know who Itachi wouldn't pick a fight with, and what the limits of MS are? This Itachi vs Jiraiya argument can't come to an end unless we saw them in a fight. Itachi has been shown to be far past Orochimaru, that should tell you not to underestimate Itachi. Jiraiya spent most of his life OBSERVING Orochimaru.

Still not taking anybody's side.

I mean Itachi will have to force himself if he want to use all 3 MS ability in a fight and he have a single shot at each ability. Jiraiya, Madara and Pain are capable ninjas and a single shot from each MS ability can't kill them.

ksj777
06-17-2008, 10:54 AM
well, this does make sense thanks to current chapters

this was a page-scroller, thanks for the read! very interesting btw

Myhaus719
06-17-2008, 12:52 PM
itachi murdered his clan when he was 13, not when he was 11. so all that stuff that you said at the beginning of this thread is wrong

and jiraiya and itachi are both dead, so who really cares who was stronger? they werent strong enough in the end

trondah
06-17-2008, 02:03 PM
I mean Itachi will have to force himself if he want to use all 3 MS ability in a fight and he have a single shot at each ability. Jiraiya, Madara and Pain are capable ninjas and a single shot from each MS ability can't kill them.

Orochimaru was a sannin and very capable. He was killed in what, 3 seconds? At the very least, Jiraiya would have big problems with Itachi.

balmung5000
06-17-2008, 02:04 PM
itachi will not kill jman
since they were friends
and jman would use his hair
as a shield if itachi
tried anything

Hanz86
06-18-2008, 01:07 AM
Emm..this discussion will never end..Jiraiya vs Itachi and the winner....PAIN

1.Pain kill Jiraiya
2.Pain is Itachi's boss in AKATSUKI

its obvious haa..

shigshwa
06-18-2008, 01:22 AM
Well, someone loves Itachi... Almost everyone on that list would pwn Itachi!!!

jagglerclod
06-18-2008, 08:17 AM
i think, itachi has an upper hand against jiraiya, in terms of talent and power so itachi's winning percentage is higher than jiraiya...

lan2cp
06-18-2008, 02:44 PM
This argument is stupid (as in never ending, but very entertaining :D). This has become a battle of fanboys. And YES you guys know who you are even though you say otherwise.

Myhaus719
06-18-2008, 03:17 PM
This argument is stupid (as in never ending, but very entertaining :D). This has become a battle of fanboys. And YES you guys know who you are even though you say otherwise.

yup, this whole thing is all fanboys. they are both dead, so they werent strong enough. it doesnt matter anymore, they are never going to fight

truavenger4116
06-18-2008, 04:01 PM
OMG i wish i caught this thread on the first page....this is extremely entertaining....guess ill do my part by offering my opinion...the starter of this thread was a completely biased and total itachi fanboy...he was basing facts off of speculation simply assuming itachi could do more and more things and growing on that...heres an example.....

-itachi can beat oro so he must be able to beat tsunade and if he can beat oro and tsunade 2 sannin then he could definitely beat both of them together and if he could beat them together then he could definitely beat jiraiya and if he could beat jiraiya he could totally beat them all together and if he could do that then he could easily kill madara and pein and if he could kill them then hes equal to minato......

thats my point in his mind he built up itachi enough to even say he equal to minato so nothing he says can be taken truthfully...people do this all the time when the idolize a character and its hard to get and unbiased opinion.

anyway heres my opinion lmao x)

jiraiya is smarter then orochimaru and more powerful....oro used to be the genius but was surpassed...now i think jiraiya would win but im not jiraiya fanboy believe me if anything i think the manga presented him poorly but here me out...jiraiya knows about itachi since hes down with the elders and what not plus im sure he knows plenty about the sharingan...now people argue that armaretsu would destroy him in a second but i disagree i think he has ways of avoiding it but even if he didn't when he sealed the black fire that is amaretsu away in the scroll do you think he just put it on a shelf and used it to make smores occationally noooo he studied it most likely and figured out stuff about it whose to say he didnt learn to counter it....or maybe he found nothing either way im sure he could dodge it lol...people seem to 4get that using the MS special abilities is like shooting yourself in the foot its extremely painful and leaves you weaker then you were before... in this case it takes up massive amounts of chakra...itachi is superior in genjutsu no arguements here but i think hermit mode jiraiya wouldnt have a problem with that....i have more to say on this issue but im tired so ill post the rest another time but in the end i see itachi expelling all of his chakra and jiraiya finishing him off....o and j-man on plays stupid with the ladies hes a smart dude....peace out

Viczor6
09-11-2008, 04:21 AM
This argument needs to be put to rest.

Itachi the child prodigy, at a mere age of 11 years old destroyed Orochimaru with but a kunai and genjutsu. In fact, Itachi let the poor sucker live to tell the tale.
Itachi at 11 years old pawned Deidara. Itachi at 11 years of age was a member of Akatsuki. Itachi at the age of 11-13 threatened the elders of the village for the safety of Sasuke.

In fact Sandaime even says - " A shinobi that can take on Orochimaru does not exist in this village at this moment " - after this quote Itachi appears in Konoha. Clearly Sandaime was thinking of Itachi. Itachi >>>>>>>>>> Orochimaru. There is no doubt about this. If you deny this then you are ignorant and biased.

You say Itachi was not trying to kill Orochimaru while you can say the same the other way around. Itachi was playing Orochimaru like a fool. Itachi did not even kill him in the end.

Now, we've been through Itachi's character and background story. Clearly, his initial interest in coming to Konoha was to check on the safety of his younger brother and to warn the elders that he still lives to protect Sasuke.

Itachi never wanted any harm done to Konoha's nins. You should be able to see that Itachi is playing around with the elite jounin of konoha.

In fact, the only reason he even took out the MS was to show Kakashi the power of a true Uchiha - this shows pride not weakness. Itachi did not need to end the fight so quickly using MS... 2 - 3 moves of his ninjutsu or 1 move of his genjutsu would have done it, kakashi would have been dead. Another point, "Why didn't he kill me... he could have if he wanted to..." Itachi did NOT even kill Kakashi under tsukyomi.

And i even see people saying Kakashi and Itachi are on the same league. Bitch, please.
If Kakashi can't take Kakuzu 1 on 1 and is on par with Hidan than he has no chance in hell against Itachi who can potentially take both Kakuzu and Hidan together.

Now i am a fan but i am basing all this information on true manga facts, i am not biased. I am not saying that Itachi is the stronger or whatever. In fact, he admitted that if he had EMS he could defeat Madara. Therefore, we can say that the only thing dictating the power levels of Madara from Itachi is the EMS Madara has.

Now for the Jiraya debate.

NOw i ask you one question. ...

In a fight of Itachi against Orochimaru and Tsunade... who would win?
Being the prodigy and the destroyer of a whole clan of elite level ninja, Itachi with his unimaginable speed wins. Even the sharingan is unable to catch his speed, his jutsu speed included.

Itachi who pawns Orochimaru in 2 panels moves onto the weaker Tsunade. THis is no match. Itachi wins.

Now what's to say that he can't take on the whole sannin crew?
This is not a farfetched claim since many have been said to be able to do so.

Itachi was given the position of Minato, in fact the very throne Itachi was sitting on symbolized Minato's position in the fight against Kyuubi.
Itachi may very well be > = to Minato who is undoubtedly > Jiraya.

Itachi being the hero of Konoha would never harm the toad sannin who lives by the live of fire.

Itachi's whole life is a lie. I am willing to bet this was one of the many lies Itachi pulled with Kisame to get out of the situation and go somewhere peaceful and rest or w/e,,,

It's not something new that Itachi lies and mostly with Kisame. Kisame even questions why he has to avoid the fight. Kisame clearly knows what Itachi is capable of. In fact, i'm sure Itachi has kicked Kisame's ass at one time.

Itachi had no intention in capturing Naruto, he never did. He came, he saw, he conquered. Too bad, Gai was a second away from joining the Jiraya vs Itachi/Kisame duel. Who knows how many anbu were following GAI....

Itachi did the smart thing. He knew Kisame would not listen if he said anything else...

Itachi is > sannin.

THANK YOU


WORD.

Although in the databook 3 that LonleyNInja posts it clearly says that Itachi and Jiraya are at the exact same level in skills etc~. I did underastimate Jiraya cause Itachis actions blinded from everyone else :p what he did.. I mean no one else could've donne it. It's a fucking shame that he died the way he did. I say get someone who know that thing the elder of the sand did to Gaara and bring him back to life. No one deserves life more than Itachi in the Naruto series! and then let him hunt down Uchiha Madara and take his eyes and there you go! Undefeteble Itachi'll take the position as Hokage together with Naruto eventually-- <<<how it should be!

DGLG
09-11-2008, 04:38 AM
Hail to all reatrded fanboys...GTFO u fucking lifeless nerds

LEARN TO FUCKING READ

Itachi NEVER killed his clan u bunch of morons. He had Madara do it for him. Even Sasuke said that there was no way for Itachi to beat the whole clan by himself. Read noobs or gtfo.

So, Itachi can beat Oro...so can Jira and Jira was on drugs when he defeated him.

Hmmm...let me see

Itachi who can beat Oro or Jira who fought Pain and took out 3 of them.

C'mon, say it fucking fanboys: ''He would kill them with Amaterasu or Susanoo.''

I don't think that someone with rinnegan would let himself be defeated by amaterasu. He defeated Hanzo on his own. He would PWN Itachi.

Plus, Jira learned how to use natural chakra.

So, let's see:

Itachi: MS

WOAH, THAT'S ALL

Jira:
Sannin, hermit mode, nature chakra, took out 3 Pain's(ONE TWICE), had a chance to become a hokage, fought rinnegan and almost won, defeated oro and Kabuto, survived when Naruto went 4 tails ect.

Viczor6
09-11-2008, 04:57 AM
Hail to all reatrded fanboys...GTFO u fucking lifeless nerds

LEARN TO FUCKING READ

Itachi NEVER killed his clan u bunch of morons. He had Madara do it for him. Even Sasuke said that there was no way for Itachi to beat the whole clan by himself. Read noobs or gtfo.

So, Itachi can beat Oro...so can Jira and Jira was on drugs when he defeated him.

Hmmm...let me see

Itachi who can beat Oro or Jira who fought Pain and took out 3 of them.

C'mon, say it fucking fanboys: ''He would kill them with Amaterasu or Susanoo.''

I don't think that someone with rinnegan would let himself be defeated by amaterasu. He defeated Hanzo on his own. He would PWN Itachi.

Plus, Jira learned how to use natural chakra.

So, let's see:

Itachi: MS

WOAH, THAT'S ALL

Jira:
Sannin, hermit mode, nature chakra, took out 3 Pain's(ONE TWICE), had a chance to become a hokage, fought rinnegan and almost won, defeated oro and Kabuto, survived when Naruto went 4 tails ect.

Itachi didn't kill all members, but some of them and we dont know how many they killed each. But if I'm not wrong here Madara said to sasuke somthin like this: Itachi even killed his mother, father girlfriend, best friend etc.

if you learned some you should know that Itachi could've defeated Madara if he had the eternal ms~ = Itachi would've been the strongest. And as the Databook 3 states: Itachi and Jiraya were currently at the same level. but dont forget that Itachi was about 30 years younger than Jiraya

you dont know anything you retard seriously get lost.

DGLG
09-11-2008, 05:43 AM
Itachi didn't kill all members, but some of them and we dont know how many they killed each. But if I'm not wrong here Madara said to sasuke somthin like this: Itachi even killed his mother, father girlfriend, best friend etc.

if you learned some you should know that Itachi could've defeated Madara if he had the eternal ms~ = Itachi would've been the strongest. And as the Databook 3 states: Itachi and Jiraya were currently at the same level. but dont forget that Itachi was about 30 years younger than Jiraya

you dont know anything you retard seriously get lost.

GTFO dumb kid

If...u dumb fanboys...it's always IF with u. Naruto could've beaten Sasuke IF he had the rinnegan. Oro could've defeat Sasuke IF he was at his 100%. Jira could've defeat Pain IF he knew his secret.

There is no IF u retard...Jira had more exp than Itachi, fought far more powerful enemies and had far more better jutsu. If they fought Itachi would die or lost his vision.

ironking
09-11-2008, 06:18 AM
i think jiraya would win in this fight ... he is more powerful than itachi ....

gravu
09-11-2008, 09:18 AM
As far i concern i don't give a flying sh1t about Itachi or Jiyraya because they are both dead . This thread blows.

idiggory
09-11-2008, 11:22 AM
Itachi beat on Orochimaru that didn't want to hurt his body that much, because he wanted it for himself.

Jiraiya had to worry about the safety of two genin when fighting Kisame and Itachi.

We know nothing about the Jiraiya/Oro fight (the one that counts) because it was in the past. All we know is that it was similar to the Naruto/Sasuke one, and (like Naruto) Jiraiya probably didn't start the fight with the intention to kill.

Jiraiya was the only person that could take on Pein.

Jiraiya has an unbelievable pool of techniques to draw upon.

Itachi's two most powerful techniques require 1. Eye Contact or 2. Jiraiya in his sight. The first is impossible if Jiraiya fights without looking at his eyes, or by using clones like Itachi. The latter is easily avoidable to someone like Jiraiya who can sense the flow of chakra. I wouldn't be surprised if he could sense when Itachi was focusing chakra in his eyes (remember how it took Kakashi several minutes to build up the chakra needed? All he would need to do is place some obstacle between them. Hell, throwing a shuriken in a direct line between him and the line would probably work, because Itachi would have to dodge or just hit it with Amaterasu.

Plus, the more they fight, Itachi is getting very, very tired because of his high-chakra techniques. Jiraiya probably hasn't used sage mode yet, either, and still has many techniques like his giant Rasengan up his sleeve.

Itachi was very strong, yes. In a fight against Jiraiya he COULD win. It is possible that he is even the more likely victor, if Jiraiya randomly hasn't learned from his and other's past encounters.

But the fact is, as a shinobi, Jiraiya is the greater of the two. He adapts to situations far too well, knows sage arts, thousands of techniques, has the frog summonings, immense strength, immense chakra, abilities that don't require seals but are rediculously strong, etc.

I love Itachi, but I think Jiraiya is the superior ninja.

krurk
09-11-2008, 01:34 PM
It could go either way, if itachi used genjutsu immediatly and what not then yeah it is a possibility that he would defeat jman but im going to say you have to think of jmans expierince, that will come into the factor because he has fought many opponents and one could had been a sharingan user in his day, yes itachi has fault many opponents but none of jmans statue, he can go into hermit mode, he has good chakra control, he trained the 4th who is considered the strongest ninja ever to live, maybe itachi would win but we know itachi had complete respect for jman so going off the manga and the fact that kisame and itachi did not take on jman to quick grab naruto shows too me that itachi thought there was a chance both of them could be killed, but it could go either way

Viczor6
09-11-2008, 02:45 PM
GTFO dumb kid

If...u dumb fanboys...it's always IF with u. Naruto could've beaten Sasuke IF he had the rinnegan. Oro could've defeat Sasuke IF he was at his 100%. Jira could've defeat Pain IF he knew his secret.

There is no IF u retard...Jira had more exp than Itachi, fought far more powerful enemies and had far more better jutsu. If they fought Itachi would die or lost his vision.


you just said it your self now you tard "IF they fought Itachi would die or lost his vision". ty for pwning your self.

Its clear that we wont ever know who's the strongest between Itachi and Jiraya. but I rely mostly on the Databook 3 and leafninja.com and it says that Itachi had more potential than Jiraya. but if they would actually fight, thats another story.

idiggory
09-11-2008, 03:21 PM
To be fair "potential" is different than actual skill.

Naruto seems to have more potential than any other shinobi, but that doesn't place him above Pein.

If Itachi lived a long life and you took him at peak strength and he had to battle a Jiraiya in his prime, of course Itachi would win. He has an incredibly strong bloodline limit and, by that point, would have had a similar level of strength and possibly as many or more techniques than Jiraiya.

The fact is that you are asking who would win: A 16 year old shinobi who is talented but still has a lot to learn against a [insert Jiraiya's age] shinobi who has gone through intense training during his life, has a massive chakra pool and hundreds of techniques.

And just a note:

Itachi focuses on Genjutsu and Taijutsu.
Jiraiya focuses on Taijutsu, Ninjutsu and summonings (and Senjutsu if necessary), but mostly Ninjutsu.
Orochimaru focused on Ninjutsu with small dabblings in genjutsu (mostly supplemental ones, like the one where he uses his eyes to terrify) and summoning jutsus. He almost never uses Taijutsu.

Many of Oro's Jutsus are still physical in nature, so they would suffer a lot from a sharingan. Jiraiya uses a HUGE variety of techniques and many of them are just as effective against a sharingan user.

If you must, look at it in a Rock-Paper-Scissors manner. Oro > Jiraiya (which I don't believe). Jiraiya > Itachi (at age 16). Itachi > Orochimaru.

Ninjas have different strengths and weaknesses. No 1 is greater than the rest.

Look at Pein. He is the master of 6 elements, can see from 6 different angles and has 6 bodies. But, he still can't use Senjutsu.

Itachi had huge potential and COULD have surpassed Jiraiya, but he hadn't yet before he died (in my opinion).

But, if you recall, Itachi didn't give a flying rat's ass about getting better, only about making Sasuke better.

Shad0w_Hunter
09-11-2008, 03:26 PM
Ahem

Ok look, i'm not an itachi fan and i'm not a jiraiya fan.'

In fact i hate itachi and i'm not a Jiraiya fan.

I say neither would win. They're both dead so they can't fight, let's move on with our pathetic, anime nerd lives.

Widana14
09-12-2008, 04:59 AM
Okay, I'll end this thread...

First,
you guys remember the eternal game which will last for eternity?
the rock paper scissor...
remember the rules :
rock>>scissor>paper>rock...
It's actually the Image of d Circle of Life...
Even the mightiest could be taken down...
all you guys who compare Itachi >>>Orochimaru>>>Jiraiya need to think again...(that's all i have to say)

Second, Kishimoto created this character...
if they fight, that means one of them is good and the other, evil...
two possibilities:
The evil dies,
The evil lives to be killed by someone else...

but both of them are good, so?

okay now for private opinion,

Jiraiya pawns Itachi, why?
if they fight, in normal mode ( Jiraiya may need to summon his Normal Toads), it's an even...no questions needed to be asked...
now,

-Amaterasu...
Shodaime beat Madara, who undoubtedly could perfectly
control Amaterasu, some way,
now, Didn't we expect Jiraiya to do the same?
especially he had learned about the black flame...
(and don't say Jiraiya's still to far to be like Shodaime, it's stupid)

-Tsukoyomi and Toad Song
Genjutsu is like a cheat...
don't talk about the delay or chakra consuming about genjutsu!!!
thet'll definitely complete the execution of both jutsu...
So whoever uses it first, wins the battle (Oro was beaten by Genjutsu and lost...imagine if the 6 pains showed earlier in the fight, Jiraiya should have them feasted in hell)
So let's make these cheats even...

-Susanoo
Okay, this is undoubtedly the same type (maybe level SS jutsu) as the "Death God" jutsu and "Life Transfering Jutsu", which surely/almost sacrifices the user for contract or massive chakra usage...
Itachi, which have been wounded (for his usage of MS to be able to gain enough experience to control the Susanoo) would definitely die after killing Jiraiya...
(REMEMBER, WE DEFINE WINNING AS WINNER COMES OUT ALIVE/HEALTHY ENOUGH TO LIVE LONGER, AND LOSER DIE FOR SURE)
so SUSANOO definitely MUST NOT be used for Itachi to win according to the winning definition above...

-Hermit Mode
With the right usage and timing of Sharingan, Itachi will be able to fight it and results an even battle...
BUT,(YOU GUYS MUST HAVE FORGOTTEN ABOUT THE LAST PART) remember that Fukasaku and His wife (whose each stronger than Jiraiya and have a lot of forbidden ninjutsu in their sleeve as a true hermit) becomes Jiraiya's weapon...(animals are considered as weapons in shinobi fight even IF they're stronger than the Shinobi itself)...

So, Jiraiya pawns Itachi for sure...


One thing to remember...
The real way to finish this argument is ask MASASHI KISHIMOTO himself...( His words are ABSOLUTE )

Hanz86
09-12-2008, 05:02 AM
C'mon....

New databook already reveal that both Jman & Itachi had a same stat; 35.5...
thats mean if Jman Vs Itachi, its 50-50...

Widana14
09-12-2008, 05:21 AM
True...

But experience is not counted in the Databooks while it's the real important thing in a battle, especially shinobi's...

Hanz86
09-13-2008, 02:35 PM
True...

But experience is not counted in the Databooks while it's the real important thing in a battle, especially shinobi's...

Yeah....Jiraiya will be at advantage if Exprience is count...

trondah
09-13-2008, 02:55 PM
Well, ability isn't counted either. Itachi was a genius and had more natural talent than Jiraiya. Killerbee had way more experience than Sasuke, look where it got him.

Dark Flame
09-13-2008, 04:11 PM
Jiraiaya will obliterate the kid he is 52 years old and is equal to a 21 year olds prime imagine jiraiaya at that age now add hermit mode to his stats bhu bye itachi..... ZZzzz

As for experience that would play a part to as for sasuke and killerbee plot played in that fight not skill sasuke was suppose to die twice but had some random out of the ass healing from 2 of the teamates... not to mention the fact that when sasuke fought without using mks he couldn\'t do jack shit and when he used mks he won. what is the moral of the story as long as sasuke relies on others power he can win wihtout others hax he sucks hard ass buh bye...

Shrike
09-13-2008, 04:30 PM
I know one thing - Jiraiya vs Itachi debates will go on forever.

trondah
09-13-2008, 05:37 PM
Jiraiaya will obliterate the kid he is 52 years old and is equal to a 21 year olds prime imagine jiraiaya at that age now add hermit mode to his stats bhu bye itachi..... ZZzzz

As for experience that would play a part to as for sasuke and killerbee plot played in that fight not skill sasuke was suppose to die twice but had some random out of the ass healing from 2 of the teamates... not to mention the fact that when sasuke fought without using mks he couldn\'t do jack shit and when he used mks he won. what is the moral of the story as long as sasuke relies on others power he can win wihtout others hax he sucks hard ass buh bye...

The moral of the story is that killerbee got defeated by a 15 year old. Itachi had those same "hax" and was a superb genius as well, obviously he is a match for Jiraiya. Experience or no experience.

Dark Flame
09-13-2008, 06:01 PM
The moral of the story is that killerbee got defeated by a 15 year old. Itachi had those same \"hax\" and was a superb genius as well, obviously he is a match for Jiraiya. Experience or no experience.

of course he is a match for jiraiaya lol didn\'t you miss the whole part if jiraiaya doesn\'t use hermit mode itachi and him will probably both die but with jiraiays experience he could still walk out. But once he goes hermit mode buh bye itachi.

The moral of thhe other story is sasukle got nearly killed twice if not for some crappy Plot he would be dead usually kishi can mask the plot nicely but this time lmfaooo he purely let it show to show us that sasuke is doo doo without plot.

As for hax itachi had none wait you mean mks i could have swore he actually trained hard became strong and took out Seshui thus getting it he took out seshui because he was part of that coup de dat needless to say nobody gave him a tap on the fore head and said\"here you go free power\".

Face it sasuke is nothing without anothers power shall we we shall....

Before oro hax weaker the naruto and garra after oro hax stronger then both before oro second hax (absorbing oro) weaker then most after oro hax almost as powerful as deidara(according to the data books which also shows how much of plot played in that fight).

With oro 2 hax vs itachi still lost .

Killerbee vs sasuke without hax using nearly resulting in sasuke dying twice then plot being added, then once he used someone else power he wins.

Second verse same as the first , moral of the story sasuke without someones power = fail with others power = win.

trondah
09-13-2008, 08:52 PM
Trained hard for MS? Could you show me where he trains hard for his MS? We know _nothing_ of the circumstances around Shisui's death. You are the one calling it hax, if it's hax in the hands of Sasuke, it's hax in the hands of Itachi, simple as that. Sasuke definately trained hard, did you miss the part when he trained all day to do katon just to impress his dad? He was constantly training to impress Itachi and his father, actually every time we have seen Sasuke he has been training or fighting. Sasuke could have killed his best friend for MS also, but passed on the opportunity.

Calling plot is retarded, everything in the manga is plot, get with it...

BlackSaint
09-13-2008, 09:07 PM
This will go on forever. All the jiraiya fans would say jiraiya wins,all the itachi fans would say itachi wins and the people who like them both (like me) would say it would be 50-50. Lets just leave the fight to the data book stat. They are both equal, experience or no experience. EQUAL======EQUAL. jiraiya=itachi=jiraiya=itachi....

Grimmjow
09-13-2008, 09:12 PM
This will go on forever. All the jiraiya fans would say jiraiya wins,all the itachi fans would say itachi wins and the people who like them both (like me) would say it would be 50-50. Lets just leave the fight to the data book stat. They are both equal, experience or no experience. EQUAL======EQUAL. jiraiya=itachi=jiraiya=itachi....

Lol they are also both dead. Which pretty much makes this thread pointless.

MaFrog
09-13-2008, 09:58 PM
this has nothing to do with reality.

Its Itachi fanboys vs Jiraiya fanboys -

trondah
09-14-2008, 06:16 AM
Reality :D

gravu
09-14-2008, 01:28 PM
I can say even more .. Itachi BLOWS , jMan SUcks . Both of them are a shame for ninja community.

Distortion
09-14-2008, 01:54 PM
Chiyoo-Ba Sama is a great example of how experience vs the Mangekyou Sharingan is crap.

Itachi would be able to keep up with Jiraiya, how Jiraiya could beat Susannoo... no idea.

Xicidal
09-14-2008, 02:41 PM
Chiyoo-Ba Sama is a great example of how experience vs the Mangekyou Sharingan is crap.

Itachi would be able to keep up with Jiraiya, how Jiraiya could beat Susannoo... no idea.

all you really have to do is avoid it.

SilverYondiame
09-14-2008, 02:49 PM
Chiyoo-Ba Sama is a great example of how experience vs the Mangekyou Sharingan is crap.

Itachi would be able to keep up with Jiraiya, how Jiraiya could beat Susannoo... no idea.

Simply put, overpower it with more power. You gotta remember that Kishi has definitely ruinedd the manga with the uchihas. I mean he put in the manga on one person three techniques of insane badassness. I mean you put the "so-called" strongest genjutsu induced doujutsu, Amaterasu, and Susano'o in one person....... But then he isn't the strongest person in the manga. Just one of the strong villians but is defeated by his weak-ass younger brother who couldn't defeat two of the three abilities he had. J-man showed a stronger genjutsu with hermit mode. As for Amaterasu, the easiest way to defeat that is to replace and cut the person's sight from it again. And with Susano'o, it is safe to assume that it is the physical zenith of Itachi's skills...... so the best way would be to simply overpower it with more power.

Anyways, discussing this point is basically pointless because Kishi doesn't know how to write the manga to make sense of what he started in the begining. We will forever wonder who was greater because Kishi didn't write it properly to show. Instead, weare given the facts of some of their abilities ane what they could do. But take into account their battling techniques, styles, and overall battle situations. Luck is just as much a part of skill as planned moves.... so the battle could have gone either way.... but if it was put to speed....Jiraiya could use Hermit mode to increase his speed so far that Itachi's sharinga' couldn't follow and apply a serious Ultimate Rasengan to itachi from behind... Sharingan or not, getting UR up his ass would destroy Itachi and the sharingan!!!HAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Dark Flame
09-14-2008, 03:45 PM
I agree the manga is so broken these days its pathetic only thing we have is that itachi is as strong as base jiraiaya, going hermit mode would mean the end of itachi simple as that susanoo takes time to unveil and jiraiay wont be scratching his ass waiting for tsukuyomi and amaterasu to hit so thhat susanoo can come out lmaoo itachi would be dead by then.

But it does say a lot that jiraiay had that kind of power at 52 i imagine jjiraiaya in his prime lol.

Anyways after reading this thread it shouldn\'t even be worth arguing have you read the thread makers posts on the first 2 pages lol.

elpelotero
09-14-2008, 04:02 PM
well i´m gonna say this, jiraiya is far stronger than itachi, jiraiya is better, and he fought equally with pain. tha´s all i´m gonna say

Amaterasu501
09-14-2008, 07:56 PM
This is just a pointless arguements/debate.. There are just to many fan boys around here.. *whew*

Biased everywhere even though there is no exact fact stating that the other one is stronger than the other..

It is just simple as this.. Jiraiya is greater than Itachi in someway, Itachi is greater than Jiraiya in someway.. Itachi is greater than Oro in someway, and Oro is greater than Itachi in someway.. You also can't take the fact that Oro intention is merely to take Itachi's body.. Yes he was defeated by Itachi.. But Oro weakness is genjutsu.. But actually it all depends on the situation and luck when the real battle is fought.. unless the shinobi skills is way far off.. Like.. Itachi vs. Ibiki.. Lmao..

So you just cant compare one character to the other.. Coz everyone has their own stregnth and weaknesses.. All you fan boy out there can't change that fact..

So the story ends here.. Jiraiya could defeat Itachi, So could Itachi defeat Jiraiya.. It all depends on the luck and the situation..

As for the statement that Jiraiya was defeated by Oro.. That was true.. But there was also in the manga stating that Jiraiya let Oro got away.. So it all just depends on luck, will and situation they are in..

Things could happened like the element as well.. fire>wind>lightning>earth>water>fire
So shinobi 1>shinobi 2>shinobi 3>shinobi 1..

So this arguements is just useless.. It's just gonna go back and forth go back and forth..

So the No biased fact is simple.. Jiraiya could defeat Itachi and vice versa.. Unless the manga stated that 1 shinobi is way far stronger than the other.. even luck is involve..

Nexus
09-14-2008, 08:02 PM
The argument should be put to rest, but I'll state my final comments on the subject. Based on the new databook, there's no way Jiraiya's jutsus would have an effect on Itachi's Susanoo. In the end, Itachi would defeat Jiraiya.

Amaterasu501
09-14-2008, 08:05 PM
And oh.. 1 more thing.. Jiraiya stats is higher than oro.. In the data book.. and that was a fact written by the author.. Kishi.. :P but mere .5 is not enough to determined who would win the fight.. So it end ups in the situation, will and luck again..

So the conclusion of this debate would end up.. Depends on those cases.. example of the situation.. let say me.. and you.. are both skilled playing basketball.. There are times I would win the game.. and there would be times you would win the game.. It depends on the luck and situation.. but If I or you play with Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant which their skill is way far off.. Then it is plain and simple.. we lose even with luck.. unless we got so so lucky and they injured themselves that they could not play better than us.. :P

Amaterasu501
09-14-2008, 08:09 PM
The argument should be put to rest, but I'll state my final comments on the subject. Based on the new databook, there's no way Jiraiya's jutsus would have an effect on Itachi's Susanoo. In the end, Itachi would defeat Jiraiya.

There you go.. another fan boy.. :P hahaha.. or I would say? Id**t.. no offense.. or just plain biased.. Ideas.. They just say something without giving thoughts about it 1st.. It is true that Jiraiya jutsu has no effect on Itachi's Susanoo.. That is just so clear.. but how long can he keep it up? until he ran out of chakra?

There is a possibility that he would not be able to hit Jiraiya offensively before he rans out of his chakra to be able to keep up or maintain Susanoo.. But we cant also take off the fact that there is a possibility that he would hit Jiraiya before he rans out of chakra.. :P

So it all depends on the luck, situation and will again.. So the arguements ends here fan boys.. :P either way.. One could defeat the other..

Nexus
09-14-2008, 08:13 PM
There you go.. another fan boy.. :P hahaha.. It is true that Jiraiya jutsu has no effect on Itachi's Susanoo.. That is just so clear.. but how long can he keep it up? until he ran out of chakra?

There is a possibility that he would not be able to hit Jiraiya offensively before he rans out of his chakra to be able to keep up or maintain Susanoo.. But we cant also take off the fact that there is a possibility that he would hit Jiraiya before he rans out of chakra.. :P

So it all depends on the luck, situation and will again.. So the arguements ends here fan boys.. :P either way.. One could defeat the other..

First off, you shouldn't double post in a thread like this (you've been here long enough to know that). And second, how am I a fan boy for going by the facts the databook stated?

Amaterasu501
09-14-2008, 08:18 PM
Simply put, overpower it with more power. You gotta remember that Kishi has definitely ruinedd the manga with the uchihas. I mean he put in the manga on one person three techniques of insane badassness. I mean you put the "so-called" strongest genjutsu induced doujutsu, Amaterasu, and Susano'o in one person....... But then he isn't the strongest person in the manga. Just one of the strong villians but is defeated by his weak-ass younger brother who couldn't defeat two of the three abilities he had. J-man showed a stronger genjutsu with hermit mode. As for Amaterasu, the easiest way to defeat that is to replace and cut the person's sight from it again. And with Susano'o, it is safe to assume that it is the physical zenith of Itachi's skills...... so the best way would be to simply overpower it with more power.

Anyways, discussing this point is basically pointless because Kishi doesn't know how to write the manga to make sense of what he started in the begining. We will forever wonder who was greater because Kishi didn't write it properly to show. Instead, weare given the facts of some of their abilities ane what they could do. But take into account their battling techniques, styles, and overall battle situations. Luck is just as much a part of skill as planned moves.... so the battle could have gone either way.... but if it was put to speed....Jiraiya could use Hermit mode to increase his speed so far that Itachi's sharinga' couldn't follow and apply a serious Ultimate Rasengan to itachi from behind... Sharingan or not, getting UR up his ass would destroy Itachi and the sharingan!!!HAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Hahaha.. Kishi is brilliant.. that's why there are still a lot of people reading and watching his manga and anime.. ;-) It is a simple fact that there is no answer to all the questions..:-) We would always wonder all our life.. It's just that we cant find all the answer we seek in life.. this includes any story as well.. :-) manga, book, etc.. LOL..

Amaterasu501
09-14-2008, 08:24 PM
First off, you shouldn't double post in a thread like this (you've been here long enough to know that). And second, how am I a fan boy for going by the facts the databook stated?

Yeah.. Yeah.. It is just a simple fact that I dont follow the rules always.. hehehe.. Peace.. Ok.. your not a fan boy my bad.. Sorry.. It's just that you didnt thought all of the situation coz merely you were on the rush to post.. so my bad.. Yeah.. Yeah.. It was a facts stated in the databook.. but the databook doesnt state the fact that Itachi could maintain the jutsu forever..

And the manga stated that everyone has a limited chakra.. as of now.. aside from the kyuubi.. I guess.. And the manga did not state about luck.. if one could hit the other or not.. It still based on luck and situation.. Ok? so there is just no arguements.. Ok? so Peace... and peace out.. homie..

Widana14
09-15-2008, 03:41 AM
WAIT WAIT WAIT !!!

I'm a J-man and Itachi fan !!!

I'll say that Jiraiya wins !!!

Why?

He's more talented in Rock Paper Scissor !

He's A PERV !!

Itachi respects the oldie !!!

Both Itachi and J-man are not better in shougi compared to Shikamaru!!!

Susanoo loves taking a bath !!!

J-man almost NEVER take a bath !!!

isn't the calculations and factors and enough?

tien
09-15-2008, 03:56 AM
Why do you guys keep saying Oro is weak in genjutsu, intellect like his. He was defeated by Itachi trying to use genjutsu on itachi, read that part again in the manga. I will say it one more time, Itachi is not stronger than Orochimaru, it is the nature of the sharingan that made him stronger.

Think back with sasuke vs naruto in the valley of the end, when his third tomoe(NOT comma) activated. He was thinking to himself how with the sharingan's third tomoe he can see naruto's INTENDED movements and counter accordingly and CONSERVE chakra. The only way Itachi can get Oro is if he does not know about ameratasu. What good is oro's other techniques if Itachi can just plain see through them, this is why Oro wanted Kinimaro.

You guys dont get it, Sasuke would have been the next body to only make sure all techniques are recorded in his brain via the sharingan because his goal wa to know all jutsus as well as to gain an DNA advantge whether it be animal , bloodline, whatever. A uchiha elite body with a huge chakra, and with those physical abilities MOSTLY integrated into his soul, Oro would transfer most or all of those abilities into the next body.

We see sasuke with all these abilities can be cut and blown away physically, killerbee basically killed him twice if not for falcon,this is one thing madara does not have to worry about, no doubt he can withstand Tsukyomi, dematerialize from amaratasu and go out of dimensional reach of Susanoo. Going back to oro, if he wanted to kill itachi, he could use many means.

kinimaro - excellent natural fighting instinct, with the coveted bloodline ability to control your calcium output and density, able to grow weapons from your bones and use these as an exo-skeleton. Think, genjutsus of itachi works through the eyes, Kinimaro in his curse seal state has enhanced senses, Oro , in kinimaro's body would be able to fight itachi off smell alone. Using his calcium density he could create steel hardened bones on his skin surface. He could force a tai-jutsu fight where he could just walk into Itachi and shish-kabob that ass. Why get a sharingan when you know Itachi knows most of it's secrets, would be a moot point, even with ameratasu, if he caught oro, oro could just grow away the burning part and discard it, of like sasuke did, you kwarimi, and Itachi would be more vulnerable. Oro, no doubt has more jutsus than the third, low level, high level and foridden.


Um, yea, Itachi vs jiraya, I think jiraiya would whup dat arse.

Viczor6
09-17-2008, 04:36 AM
we will never know the answer to this question my friends. according to the databook Jman and Itachi got exactly the same score. 35.5 or something? doesn't matter cause they got the same score. although Itachi is written first, but that is prolly cause I comes before J xD

Widana14
09-17-2008, 08:54 PM
Well, they didn't include experience on it...

J-man wins...

Narutologist
09-18-2008, 11:29 AM
not going to elaborate...but Pervy Sage would have won...especially in sage mode...

Vengeance
09-18-2008, 07:04 PM
Itachi pawnz Jiraiya. Itachi held back in every fight because he was a good boy. Had Itachi sided with Uchiha during the revolt his mission would of been to assassinate Sarutobi.

Widana14
09-19-2008, 12:16 AM
of course Itachi always LOOKS LIKE he's holding back...

his face is the same all the time...

be careful, no expression doesn't mean that someone isn't cornered or giving all out or maybe losing...

Jiraiya's face?

no questions asked...