Fandom Forums

Fandom Forums (http://www.fandom.com/forums//index.php)
-   Naruto Manga (http://www.fandom.com/forums//forumdisplay.php?f=14)
-   -   Crazy Theory? (http://www.fandom.com/forums//showthread.php?t=119276)

Solutions_411 10-18-2011 04:43 AM

Crazy Theory?
 
Before I begin, there are two assumptions that have to be made...
1) Madara had to use some form of splitting
2) Nagato was at some stage in his life before Hashirama and Madara fought.
3) Rinne Tensei's retrieving span is undocumented

Perhaps that's a huge part of the reason why splitting was introduced with the Muu fight - to explain the appearance of a second Madara.
---------------------------------

This is a possible occurrence that would explain many of the events that have been happening in the manga.

During the fight between Madara and Hashirama, Madara used some form of splitting, as Hashirama killed one part of Madara, whereas the other part of Madara survived. We all know that Hashirama *won* that fight, whether or not Madara was using it to gain ahold of his DNA for a greater plan (and he did gain the DNA, seeing his zetsu project which has allowed him to recover.)

This splitting would explain why we see a young edo-Madara (http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/559/15) that looks like he has not aged since the Madara/Hashirama battle, and an old Madara (Tobi http://www.mangareader.net/93-402-5/...apter-397.html) -> You can see signs of aging on the side of his face. Madara may not be as old as we are led to believe, considering that the first and second hokage were a part of the same generation (since they are brothers.) That would mean that Madara is maybe 10-20 years (at most) older than Danzo.

Tobi (old Madara,) was planning on using Rinne Tensei [http://www.mangareader.net/93-458-17...pter-453.html] to revive the part of him that was killed off by Hashirama, which explains why young Madara believed that he was brought back by Nagato's Rinne Tensei rather than Edo-Tensei - It was as if Madara knew that this was going to happen.

Thus Tobi/Madara were shocked when Kabuto found out Tobi's secret (that Tobi wasn't complete,) and revived the dead part of Madara back to the world as edo-tensei, meaning that Kabuto has complete control over edo-Madara.
-------------

Judging from the way that Tobi uses the sharingan, assuming that he's human, he has to be one of the remaining Uchihas - the other predictions, such as Sasuke's dad (who was pro-Uchiha revolution,) Obito (whose only purpose was to reveal how Kakashi got the sharingan,) or Izuna (who died after giving away his eyes.)

There's just very few options that would make sense at this point, and seeing as Tobi is using time/space techniques held by the second and fourth, it's not out of the question that he had some soul splitting ability. Based on this timeline, it's entirely possible that Nagato was alive before the battle between Hashirama and Madara.

k-lai 10-18-2011 06:59 AM

Re: Crazy Theory?
 
CRAZY REPLY!
Your theory is good and all
But nagato had no way of being alive during hashi and madara's time cos he was a boy when J-man, tsunade and oro were in their prime

krurk 10-18-2011 08:37 AM

Re: Crazy Theory?
 
For the billionth god damn time, Edo Tensei does not work when the soul is still in this world.

Solutions_411 10-18-2011 11:08 AM

Re: Crazy Theory?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by k-lai (Post 2012546)
CRAZY REPLY!
Your theory is good and all
But nagato had no way of being alive during hashi and madara's time cos he was a boy when J-man, tsunade and oro were in their prime

It is possible that Nagato was alive, or something of the sort. Think about it - when Edo-tensei is used, it brings back the person in the form that they were before they died (I suppose...) Edo-Madara looks as old as he did when he fought Hashirama... I didn't believe that Nagato was alive for that time period, but how else would edo-Madara know of Nagato?

Quote:

Originally Posted by krurk (Post 2012578)
For the billionth god damn time, Edo Tensei does not work when the soul is still in this world.

A bit early to call that, when we were just introduce to splitting.

kael03 10-18-2011 11:47 AM

Re: Crazy Theory?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Solutions_411 (Post 2012641)
A bit early to call that, when we were just introduce to splitting.

No "a bit early" about it. Kabuto fucking stated "Those whose souls are not in the pure world, those whose souls are sealed somewhere else, cannot be revived". The fact that Kabuto has Madara as an Edo means that his soul was in the Pure world, not this world. Tobi is not some fragment of Madara's soul bound to a new body. That idea was eliminated the second the real Madara was shown to have been in the coffin. Further debunking the "split soul" idea is when Gaara points out that Madara was brought back by Edo Tensei, which meant that he was dead before.

krurk 10-18-2011 12:03 PM

Re: Crazy Theory?
 
I understand the fact that anything is possible to to change, look at Tobi/Madara, while there are interesting points, its likely that Madara did live through the battle with Harashima and lived up until the time of Nagato. It is within reason that he thought Nagato had his body and used the revive jutsu to bring him back to life, and its very possible he knows who Tobi is. The only question is did he sanction Tobi to use his identity, and if not will he be the one to talk Sasuke down and tell him not to become a trader.

Solutions_411 10-18-2011 12:21 PM

Re: Crazy Theory?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kael03 (Post 2012662)
No "a bit early" about it. Kabuto fucking stated "Those whose souls are not in the pure world, those whose souls are sealed somewhere else, cannot be revived". The fact that Kabuto has Madara as an Edo means that his soul was in the Pure world, not this world. Tobi is not some fragment of Madara's soul bound to a new body. That idea was eliminated the second the real Madara was shown to have been in the coffin. Further debunking the "split soul" idea is when Gaara points out that Madara was brought back by Edo Tensei, which meant that he was dead before.

If theoretically, Kabuto calls off the edo-tensei... Could Half-Muu be revived again? That's my point.
The only other possibility for Tobi would be Izuna, or something that's not human... Izuna couldn't live to be that old though, considering he was dying of disease, and there was no mention of him having his eyes back, and he died. As for being a non-human creation of Zetsu's, why would a zetsu clone be aging? I have been pretty good on my predictions, and under the current circumstances, there's only one true human match for Tobi... There's always that possibility that he's non human, but why would he want to bring back Madara if he was some imposter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by krurk (Post 2012671)
I understand the fact that anything is possible to to change, look at Tobi/Madara, while there are interesting points, its likely that Madara did live through the battle with Harashima and lived up until the time of Nagato. It is within reason that he thought Nagato had his body and used the revive jutsu to bring him back to life, and its very possible he knows who Tobi is. The only question is did he sanction Tobi to use his identity, and if not will he be the one to talk Sasuke down and tell him not to become a trader.

I'm believing that Harashima left the battle, seeing a dead (half) Madara. How does Tobi know so much about Madara if he isn't really Madara? Even Itachi believes Tobi to be Madara, and this was before the spread of that news. It's always possible that Madara made it out alive, but if he made it out alive, what killed him, and why was he believing that Nagato used Rinne-Tensei on him, as if it was all a part of his plan?

kael03 10-18-2011 12:46 PM

Re: Crazy Theory?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Solutions_411 (Post 2012675)
If theoretically, Kabuto calls off the edo-tensei... Could Half-Muu be revived again?

Yes, he could. Both halves of Muu would be dismissed and his soul would return to the Pure world. All one needs is his DNA to resummon him with Edo Tensei.

Quote:

That's my point.
You have no point then.

Quote:

The only other possibility for Tobi would be Izuna, or something that's not human... Izuna couldn't live to be that old though,
Izuna was younger than Madara and Hashirama. Hashirama fought Kakuzu, who lived to be 91. Tsuchikage fought Madara and he's still alive. The age thing is moot.

Quote:

considering he was dying of disease,
What? The hell are you talking about? The only ones ever mentioned to be dying of some disease were Itachi and Kimimaro. Izuna died because he ran into battle after his eyes were taken.

Quote:

and there was no mention of him having his eyes back, and he died.
Well, duh. He was blind when he died.

Quote:

As for being a non-human creation of Zetsu's, why would a zetsu clone be aging?
Not that I'm saying Tobi is a Zetsu clone (I've been against that idea from the start) but, what makes you think Zetsu wouldn't age?

Quote:

I have been pretty good on my predictions,
Not really.

Quote:

and under the current circumstances, there's only one true human match for Tobi...
What circumstances? You mean the fact that Madara was revived with Edo Tensei instead of Rinne Tensei? That proves that Tobi isn't Madara in any way, shape, or form. Madara's soul was in the Pure world, or the afterlife. He was dead. Tobi is not Madara. With Madara now being eliminated from the pool of candidates, there is an entire continent of people that can possibly be Tobi, aside from the previous 4 hokages and Obito for reasons already covered in this thread and numerous other threads. So your "only one true human match" thing has just been debunked by the pool of candidates being drastically widened.

Quote:

There's always that possibility that he's non human, but why would he want to bring back Madara if he was some imposter?
Considering Tobi didn't bring Madara back... Kabuto did. Kabuto has a penchant for fucking with someone else's plans if it will benefit his own goals. By bringing back Madara, he ensured that Tobi will not only not rip his head off with his new Rinnegan, but Kabuto gets his hands on both Sasuke and a Zetsu.

Quote:

I'm believing that Harashima left the battle, seeing a dead (half) Madara.
A "no shit" statement.

Quote:

How does Tobi know so much about Madara if he isn't really Madara?
Aside from the retarded Savior, who doesn't know about Madara? Tsuchikage has fought Madara in the past. Pretty much everyone from Konoha knows about the significance of the Valley of the End.

Quote:

Even Itachi believes Tobi to be Madara, and this was before the spread of that news.
I went back and checked out a few things. Itachi never referred to Tobi as Madara. He referred to a man in a mask as Madara, but that was also years before the manga started, when he slaughtered the clan. It's possible that Madara was still alive then and was hiding behind the mask so people wouldn't recognize him.

Quote:

It's always possible that Madara made it out alive,
Clearly, since he knew who Nagato was. Nagato was born during the Second Ninja War, decades after Madara and Hashirama fought.

Quote:

but if he made it out alive, what killed him,
That is the ultimate question.

Quote:

and why was he believing that Nagato used Rinne-Tensei on him, as if it was all a part of his plan?
Gee, I don't know. Maybe because Nagato using Rinne Tensei on him was a part of his plan? Wow, that is a real stretch of the imagination.

batonnoir 10-18-2011 12:46 PM

Re: Crazy Theory?
 
I'm making this statement w/o research, but it seems that there are differences between sealing bodies, sealing chakra, and sealing souls. Chakra and bodies are pretty straight forward, but souls??? While I am inclined to agree with Kael03, I cannot ignore the unexplained shreds of plot no jutsu that Kishi has been dishing out the past few months. The RS's treasures and their ability to pull the soul out before sealing the body. The splitting of Muu, and the resurrection of Itachi.

Prior to these incidents being made cannon, any one of them would have sounded like utter bull. So feel free to theorize, but realize that Kishi has pushed us off the deep end.

kael03 10-18-2011 12:51 PM

Re: Crazy Theory?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by batonnoir (Post 2012685)
The RS's treasures and their ability to pull the soul out before sealing the body.

Oh for fucks sake. The Sage's "Treasures" didn't pull a person's soul out. The role pulled out a WORD SOUL. How many times do I have to repeat that? The Japanese have a belief that every word has a soul that gives it some form of power. That belief goes with the Sage's treasures abilities. The rope draws out the soul of the word most used by the target, which is recorded (the power of the word's soul is bound to the treasure), then the target is sealed when they use that specific word, whose power was bound to the gourd.

Quote:

The splitting of Muu,
He split himself in 2 and halved his own power. What's confusing about that?

Quote:

and the resurrection of Itachi.
The return of the most skilled ninja-like ninja in the manga and one of the biggest fan favorites is a confusing plot hole?

Vengeance 10-18-2011 12:52 PM

Re: Crazy Theory?
 
Soul spliting was established with Minato. The idea of a part of a soul existing in two seprate areas is entirely possible since Minatos soul was not only sealed within the death god but was also sealed within Naruto as well. Meaning Madaras soul could exist in both the pure world & living world. Meaning the part that would be in the pure world could be brought back using Edo tensai. Tobi can also be explained by memory transfer where he has the same memory or mind as Madara but not nessasarly the soul. Train the mind body & spirit/soul. These things being seperate is also entirely possible. That being said I think Madara created tobi & was killed by itachi.

kael03 10-18-2011 12:58 PM

Re: Crazy Theory?
 
Actually, Veng, that wasn't Minato's soul that appeared in Naruto. It was an imprint made from his chakra set to activate under a specific set of circumstances (the seal almost being completely broken).

krurk 10-18-2011 03:03 PM

Re: Crazy Theory?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Solutions_411 (Post 2012675)
If theoretically, Kabuto calls off the edo-tensei... Could Half-Muu be revived again? That's my point.
The only other possibility for Tobi would be Izuna, or something that's not human... Izuna couldn't live to be that old though, considering he was dying of disease, and there was no mention of him having his eyes back, and he died. As for being a non-human creation of Zetsu's, why would a zetsu clone be aging? I have been pretty good on my predictions, and under the current circumstances, there's only one true human match for Tobi... There's always that possibility that he's non human, but why would he want to bring back Madara if he was some imposter?



I'm believing that Harashima left the battle, seeing a dead (half) Madara. How does Tobi know so much about Madara if he isn't really Madara? Even Itachi believes Tobi to be Madara, and this was before the spread of that news. It's always possible that Madara made it out alive, but if he made it out alive, what killed him, and why was he believing that Nagato used Rinne-Tensei on him, as if it was all a part of his plan?


Your whole post is based off this irrational idea that it has to be someone really old, don't think so inside the box in this situation, how many times did we see older ninja take on young ninja to mentor them...its the point of the whole story.... so why is it so far fetched that he just mentored another ninja? I am not saying it is not his brother, but come on, its pretty reasonable to say Madara became Tobi after his fight with Harashima, during this time developed Zetsu and found a way to extend his life by adding zetsu's dna to his so he could regenerate body parts lost too Harashima, I am assuming at this point he battled Minato hoping to over power the Leaf but Minato was able to defeat him, around this time, he began mentoring another ninja, his apprentice and himself would help Nagato and in return Nagato would help bring him back and then would die of age and wounds, thus leaving his apprentice to take over.

Solutions_411 10-18-2011 05:55 PM

Re: Crazy Theory?
 
Heh go figure that some people would overreact and feel obliged to absolutely every single little fragment of a post - It's just a theory, not necessary correct or incorrect. As I said, it is based on assumptions, and we really do not have all of the parts to actually find out who Tobi is - It is just suspicious though, that Tobi wanted to bring Madara back using rinne tensei, and Madara thought he was brought back by Rinne tensei. That's my main point, and yes, it is a point Kael.

krurk 10-18-2011 06:26 PM

Re: Crazy Theory?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Solutions_411 (Post 2012871)
Heh go figure that some people would overreact and feel obliged to absolutely every single little fragment of a post - It's just a theory, not necessary correct or incorrect. As I said, it is based on assumptions, and we really do not have all of the parts to actually find out who Tobi is - It is just suspicious though, that Tobi wanted to bring Madara back using rinne tensei, and Madara thought he was brought back by Rinne tensei. That's my main point, and yes, it is a point Kael.

The reason people "over react" is because you are making a theory out of something that is categorized by the manga as not possible. You cover a good point that we do not know about splitting, but the manga states the person must be dead. That is where people will tell you that its messed up, before you call people out on feeling "obliged" you can't even accept you theory has a huge hole in it.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:02 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.