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Mal 11-30-2012 10:00 AM

This is Syria right now
 
No "news," just a video. Warning: YouTube has allowed this video despite its bloody content, so if you're squeamish you may not want to watch.


Any Arabic speakers able to translate some of what is said?

LonelyNinja 11-30-2012 11:42 AM

Re: This is Syria right now
 
The UN needs to quit dragging its feet and actually deploy troops or provide arms and munitions to the freedom fighters. I know they're going to win in the end, but it's not a fair fight. While they have RPGs, AKs, and trucks and motorbikes, the military's using artillery, helicopters, tanks. If the bloodshed's going to end soon, then the UN needs to do more than denounce Syria's actions and impose sanctions on them.

jekyl_hyde 11-30-2012 01:50 PM

Re: This is Syria right now
 
As far as "the battle" goes, I agree with you LonelyNinja, but I think you're crazy if you think the UN is going to come out, guns a blazin', and call for action against Syria. History proves the UN is nothing more than a bureaucratic money drain with no real power. Things don't happen until one or a couple of countries stand up and say enough with the crap, it's time to do something.

Numinous 11-30-2012 02:04 PM

Re: This is Syria right now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde (Post 2131510)
History proves the UN is nothing more than a bureaucratic money drain with no real power.

This history of yours is perhaps called the Wacky Guide to Historical Innacuracy? The UN may have many flaws, but that isn't certainly one of them.


That said, I do agree with LN on the issue. The UN should stop being so PC and stop these shameful events.

LonelyNinja 11-30-2012 06:05 PM

Re: This is Syria right now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde (Post 2131510)
History proves the UN is nothing more than a bureaucratic money drain with no real power.

The Korean War would like to speak with you. The UN was heavily involved in that, and for the same reasons the UN should get involved now. But instead, we have China and Russia and other Middle Eastern nations cockblocking the UN.

jekyl_hyde 11-30-2012 06:51 PM

Re: This is Syria right now
 
That's not a wacky guide. Look at how many countries contribute financially to the UN... then look at the events that have required international intervention, and look and see which entities acted first.

Depending on how you look at it, the U.S. has put their nose into others' businesses instead of waiting on the final decision from the U.N.

And LN... look back at history... the U.S. was involved in the Korean war long before the U.N. was. Debating on whether the U.S. should have been though... that's a different debate.

kael03 11-30-2012 07:10 PM

Re: This is Syria right now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde (Post 2131521)
And LN... look back at history... the U.S. was involved in the Korean war long before the U.N. was.

I suggest you look back at history. The U.N first became involved in Korea on June 25, 1950 (the same day North Korea invaded South Korea), when it passed the U.N. Security Counsel Resolution 82 which demanded that North Korea cease its invasion of South Korea. The U.S. and KPA forces didn't fight their first battle until the Battle of Osan, which started on July 5, 1950, a full 10 days after the Resolution passed. The U.N. also passed Resolution 83, which asked for members of the U.N. to send forces to aid South Korea, on June 27, 1950.

So it was, in fact, the U.N. that was involved with Korea before the U.S. Also, it wasn't a "long before" timeframe, there was 10 days between North Korea invading South Korea and the first fight between KPA forces and the U.S. military.

jekyl_hyde 11-30-2012 07:16 PM

Re: This is Syria right now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kael03 (Post 2131522)
I suggest you look back at history. The U.N first became involved in Korea on June 25, 1950 (the same day North Korea invaded South Korea), when it passed the U.N. Security Counsel Resolution 82 which demanded that North Korea cease its invasion of South Korea. The U.S. and KPA forces didn't fight their first battle until the Battle of Osan, which started on July 5, 1950, a full 10 days after the Resolution passed. The U.N. also passed Resolution 83, which asked for members of the U.N. to send forces to aid South Korea, on June 27, 1950.

So it was, in fact, the U.N. that was involved with Korea before the U.S. Also, it wasn't a "long before" timeframe, there was 10 days between North Korea invading South Korea and the first fight between KPA forces and the U.S. military.

Funny how the U.S. occupied S. Korea during WWII and the Soviet Union occupied N. Korea after WWII. Many war scholars point to the Korean War being the beginning of the Cold War, because they state the Cold War actually started before the Korean War.

Numinous 11-30-2012 07:19 PM

Re: This is Syria right now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde (Post 2131523)
Funny how the U.S. occupied S. Korea during WWII and the Soviet Union occupied N. Korea after WWII. Many war scholars point to the Korean War being the beginning of the Cold War, because they state the Cold War actually started before the Korean War.

... what's this, I don't even.

How is a response to what kael said and your argument that the UN does nothing before some countries do?

LonelyNinja 11-30-2012 07:19 PM

Re: This is Syria right now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde (Post 2131521)
Depending on how you look at it, the U.S. has put their nose into others' businesses instead of waiting on the final decision from the U.N.

You're kidding, right? The US doesn't exactly have the most stellar record for interventionism in the Middle East. Afghanistan? Absolutely needed to happen. Iraq? What a waste of time, lives, and money. Egypt? It was the US's fault that Mubarak was there in the first place, and at least the US didn't commit troops. Syria? The US should provide arms, just like Egypt, but no more. The US cannot afford to deploy troops right now. We're tired of war, and we need to recoup for a good long while. Also, if the US said, "Fuck you, UN!" right now, after the vote to recognize Palestine as a nation, then there will be even less sympathy for the cause. A lot of countries aren't backing the US out of spite, so we just need to calm our tits about engaging in a ground war again.

Quote:

And LN... look back at history... the U.S. was involved in the Korean war long before the U.N. was. Debating on whether the U.S. should have been though... that's a different debate.
Brush up on your history.
Quote:

When hostile North Korean forces crossed the 38th parallel in Korea in June of 1950, the United Nations Security Council called for an immediate end to hostilities. When its further demand that North Korea withdraw forces from the southern half of the Korean peninsula fell on deaf ears, the UN Security Council recommended that members of the United Nations join forces to repel the attack. Twenty-one nations agreed to contribute arms, money, medical supplies, and/or troops to rid South Korea of the Communist aggressor.
Source.
The US just had the most military involvement, but it was acting under UN authority. Huge difference than the US storming in first followed by the UN security forces. Also, there is no debate about US involvement in Korea. Absolutely none.

kael03 11-30-2012 07:36 PM

Re: This is Syria right now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde (Post 2131523)
Funny how the U.S. occupied S. Korea during WWII and the Soviet Union occupied N. Korea after WWII. Many war scholars point to the Korean War being the beginning of the Cold War, because they state the Cold War actually started before the Korean War.

...wat? For starters...wat?

Let's break this down:

"We were in South Korea during WWII"
  • Considering Korea didn't become 2 separate governments until after the Potsdam Conference in July-August 1945, after WWII had ended.
  • U.S. forces were only in Korea to keep the Soviets from invading and occupying a devastated Japan (we had just dropped 2 atomic bombs on them, after all)
  • A result of the Potsdam Conference was an agreement that the Soviet forces wouldn't move south of the 38th parallel (which they adhered to).

"Many scholars point to the Korean War as the start of the Cold War"
  • I'd like to see a list of these supposed scholars.
  • "Many scholars" would point out that there is no agreement on when the Cold War started. Some claim it started almost immediately after the end of WWII. Others claim it started during WWI. Some even believe it was a result of tensions with the Russian Empire stemming back to the 19th century.

ask me anything 11-30-2012 07:42 PM

Re: This is Syria right now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LonelyNinja (Post 2131526)
You're kidding, right? The US doesn't exactly have the most stellar record for interventionism in the Middle East.

I'd go one step further and say the US doesn't exactly have the most stellar record for intervention anywhere.

Quote:

Egypt? It was the US's fault that Mubarak was there in the first place.
^This. The same could be said for Iraq as well, since we put Saddam Hussein in power there originally.


On that note...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtj1uqXqKok

Mal 12-01-2012 01:50 AM

Re: This is Syria right now
 
The only major problem I have with the UN is veto power. If the vast majority of member states are all "we should do this" but are stopped by mother fucking Russia being all "nope, don't like that plan guys," that is not democracy. That's just bullshit.

LonelyNinja 12-01-2012 11:26 AM

Re: This is Syria right now
 
Yeah, took forever and a day to get Russia to admit that something is amiss in the land of Syria. Plus, there's China always being assholes, too.

Vanity 12-01-2012 10:05 PM

Re: This is Syria right now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LonelyNinja (Post 2131526)
You're kidding, right? The US doesn't exactly have the most stellar record for interventionism in the Middle East.

This, because it makes me giggle. People always like OHMUHGURD US IN URBODAYZ BIZZ when our record for "intervening" is much more slim than some realize. Plus, just look at fucking Rwanda.



I agree with you, for the most part, that the UN needs to step up their shit and get to gettin', because I don't see this dying down quickly without outside assistance. I feel as though a regime over-throw is inevitable, but with the death count rising, I'd much rather it be soon than later =/


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