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DGLG 01-10-2008 06:32 PM

The secret of Akatsuki
 
Hey guys,
I've been doing some researcj and I FOUND SOMETHINK RLY RLY RLY INTERESTING:D UR GONNA LOVE THIS

Pain, the leader of Akatsuki, refers to himself as a God. So I asked myself which God. The answer is simple...Pain is the manga version of a God Kamui, God of creation.

The Ainu people believe that Kamui is the creator of everything. The Ainu people of Hokkaidō recount the demiurge with a cosmology consisting of six heavens and six hells where gods, demons, and animals lived. Demons lived in the lower heavens. Amongst the stars and the clouds lived the lesser gods.
Notice the number six, six heavens, six hells

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/369/16-17/

Now pls correct me if I'm wrong, but the 1st body to the right has a heaven symbol and the 1st body to the left has a hell symbol.

Now, this is where the things start to get interesting. In highest heaven lived Kamui, the creator god, and his servants. His realm was surrounded by a mighty metal wall and the only entrance was through a great iron gate.

I quote that ninja who told Jira that Pain killed Hanzo, ''Pain-sama resides in the tallest of the western towers...or so they say.''

Notice that my sources say that Kaumi's relam was suronded by a metal wall. Here is somethig else. Kamui made this world as a vast round ocean resting on the backbone of an enormous trout. This fish sucks in the ocean and spits it out again to make the tides; when it moves it causes earthquakes.

Ocean, metal...hmm...you mean, THIS(well, it's not an ocean, but it has a lot of wather,right?)?!
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/367/17/

Now, Kaumi and akatsuki. I've been doing some research on Kaumi when I found something that likns some of them to Akatsuki members.
So, here it is:

Zetsu-Nusakoro Kamui

Nusakoro Kamui is an Ainu kamui (god). Called the community-founding kamui, he represents the dead and serves as a messenger to the other kamui. Nusakoro Kamui is the originator of nusa or inau, sacred carved wands that represent the kamui in Ainu ritual. He is responsible for maintaining the row of inau arranged outside of a traditional Ainu dwelling, and he carries the inau and other offerings to the gods, along with humans' messages of reverence. He is called upon to assist in rituals, ensuring that the respect behind them is properly conveyed to the kamui. He is assisted in his tasks by Yushkep Kamui, the spider goddess.

Nusakoro Kamui is usually said to be the brother of the snake god, Kinashut Kamui, but sometimes the two are regarded as a single entity.

OMFG, THAT'S ZETSU!!!

Uchiha Madara-Kandakoro Kamui

Kandakoro Kamui is the Ainu kamui (god) of the sky. He is the prime originator of Ainu mythology, responsible either directly or indirectly for the creation of all things.
While Kandakoro Kamui is a powerful kamui, he is not presented as a supreme being. He is also in many ways a background figure: while his presence was necessary for the creation of the world, he plays only a small part in subsequent events, often as a mediator.[1] He is considered the overseer and master of the sky, much as Chikap Kamui is the overseer of the land.
He appointed Moshirikara Kamui to shape the earth, preparing it for inhabitation by humankind.

Simple, Madara.

Pain-Moshirikara Kamui

Moshirikara Kamui is an Ainu kamui (god). At the command of Kandakoro Kamui, he created the earth, shaping it and preparing it for humans to inhabit.

What is Pain doing again? Oh yes, shaping the world. Making people grow into gods. I'm still not sure about Pain.

Hidan-Kenash Unarabe

Kenash Unarabe is an Ainu kamui (god). She is a blood-drinking monster who preys upon hunters.
Kenash Unarabe is said to have emerged from the decomposing tools the gods had used in their making of the earth. She is a monster with a thirst for human blood, and a sister to various poisons and diseases.

Now, the only problem here is that SHE. Kishi could make that HE ofc.

Kisame-Repun Kamui

Repun Kamui is the Ainu kamui (god) of the sea.
Repun Kamui is sometimes depicted as a killer whale. In other instances, he is a carefree, somewhat mischievous young man armed with a harpoon.

Sea, ok. Whale, why not a shark? Hapoon, hell no, sword is cooler. Kisame is carefree:D

Kakuzu-Pauchi Kamui

Pauchi Kamui is the Ainu kamui (god) of insanity.
In Ainu mythology, Pauchi Kamui is an evil spirit born from the Willow-Soul River in Pikun Kando (High Heaven). It descended to earth to plague humanity with insanity, stomach ailments, food poisoning, seizures, and frenzied dancing.

Still, didn't find anything about Konan, Deidara, Itachi and Sasori 'cause my sources are limited to some number of Kamui, not all

I'm gonna read some books and I'll be updating soon

Hey Anbu, Mikey and all other dudes who hate me, I think u can finally say that I've done something useful.

Anbu-Kakashi 01-10-2008 06:51 PM

Re: The secret of Akatsuki
 
Hmm i gotta say Dglg not bad not bad at all still reading it though but perhaps mikey will give you more props all i can say is not bad besides any idiot who reads the manga knows that kishi bases his stuff off ancient mythology and switches it around go read the thread on the tailed beats the god's maybe this has some significance but chances of it actually being like this are ZERO.

Still i will rep you though.

liuaishan 01-10-2008 06:57 PM

Re: The secret of Akatsuki
 
welcome back, haven't seen you in a while *cough hope anbu-kakashi won't jump on you again coz you quit the manga cough*

the theory is pretty interesting. There are some characters that I don't see how they connect with the gods. Like kakuzu.
I liked the heaven and hell symbol thing... IF those symbols are what you say coz I don't read japanese.
See if you find something about Itachi, he's pretty strong here. The Zetsu thing was cool.

Uhm, overall I don't know what to say. I know kishi inspires everything from mythology and stuff, like the bijuus themselves for examples, so tis is expected. he doesn't just invent those things. The bijuu information is in the data book if I recall well (I may not), dunno about your theory, but the whole Pain thing is pretty new though.


edit: yah, anbu came before me lol, and said what I just said lol... XD, but I'll just leave the post like this.

Shrike 01-10-2008 07:20 PM

Re: The secret of Akatsuki
 
I will read this later.
But honestly, the chances of this are null. There were many who tossed their time like that and failed to get something. Actually, only Yasha got something, maybe.
The Akatsuki were originally 10 shinobi from the legends, not gods. But that isn't what Kishi officially said of course.
As I said, I will read this later.

DarkAztek 01-10-2008 09:51 PM

Re: The secret of Akatsuki
 
Shrike, Naruto is based on Japanese folklore and mythology. If you didn't even fucking read what he wrote, then don't FUCKING POST. He's making comparisons or can you not see that?

Aka is really odd in the sense that their name means "dawn" or "daybreak" in Japanese. That is fairly innocent and I wonder if that somehow connects to the story of the gods that you mentioned, DGLG.

Eighty6ed 01-10-2008 11:00 PM

Re: The secret of Akatsuki
 
Nice one. Even though some of it seemed a bit of a reach, I can definately see how you line em up. Nicely done.

platinumrug 01-10-2008 11:36 PM

Re: The secret of Akatsuki
 
Nice job, i can see you did a lot of research. I am impressed. +rep

shahbayu 01-11-2008 02:03 AM

Re: The secret of Akatsuki
 
Great research man. I give you an A+ for that

DGLG 01-11-2008 04:28 AM

Re: The secret of Akatsuki
 
I must do some more research 'cause my sources had only a few Kamui. But I must say, I was shocked with Zetsu. It's a perfect match.

Shrike 01-11-2008 06:33 AM

Re: The secret of Akatsuki
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAztek (Post 1399543)
Shrike, Naruto is based on Japanese folklore and mythology. If you didn't even fucking read what he wrote, then don't FUCKING POST. He's making comparisons or can you not see that?

Aka is really odd in the sense that their name means "dawn" or "daybreak" in Japanese. That is fairly innocent and I wonder if that somehow connects to the story of the gods that you mentioned, DGLG.

You should also read what I wrote again.
I said that I will read it later, meaning it's wroth reading and that I respect the theory. I repped the man.
But I said that the chances of it being true are near zero, since there has been many speculations on the origins of the idea of Akatsuki as a whole, and none was proven true. Kishimoto wouldn't write of something so obvious, since the Japanese themselves would recognize this instantly.

Either way, I wouldn't have expected you to have read those theories since I read this post. If you did, you would think the same I did.
It's not hard to see Dawn or Daybreak bring something new, and Akatsuki want to bring a new era to the shinobi world.
Of course, it could be wrong. But it is most likely.

I shouldn't have posted that, but I just felt like it then. So, who cares now.

One more thing DA - you only answer to posts which have something you do not like, I never saw you posting in a thread and agreeing with people. If you came in a thread and discuss stuff in a more friendly way, I would respect that more.
While I respect your intelligence and debating skills (you are on top here on NL), you attitude can be something I do mind.
Not that it will change anything, but you should know other opinions.
Having said:"Shrike, your post was meaningless, try to do that again." instead of :"DON'T FUCKING POST" makes a difference. Not that you know my posts either.

Edit:
And now, I have read it all.

I must say that the start was interesting, I didn't know all of that. Pain fits the god figure, but not the rest of the members.
Zetsu was maybe the basic idea, but he is not the same. It is interesting that the Kami you mentioned had similar jobs to Zetsu's.
Anyhow, that 'God' feeling of Pain has faded 21 chapter ago. Which is too bad.
You have a god of sea in every mythology, so saying it's Kisame would be saying it's Poseidon.
Hidan has nothing to do with a blood drinking monster.

Kishimoto was mostly original there. Let's take Hidan for example. The idea of him came from the western cultures and beliefs. He is a sadomasochist zealot who's faith is all he has or he wants and he uses it as he sees fit. He is a mix of inquisitor, and a voodoo priest.

Kakuzu the same originality. I never came across anything which would imply Kakuzu's character or abilities. Too bad his character was handled that badly though.

Pain is from the Hidden Rain, it's has to do with water naturally. But not with an ocean. I already discussed this one, believing Pain will come from the sea with great army, and that it will be Naruto who will stop their ships with a storm (swirl), and I thought Naruto was Uzumaki because of that.
I was wrong.

Kishimoto did not make all characters according to those gods, because he couldn't implement them all into the story and it would be easy to figure Akatsuki out if they were the same as those gods.

Did you know that there are names in Japanese godhood such as "Hiruko" (Sasori's puppet), Ebisu (Ebisu sensei), Inari (the kid with a crossbow)?
That doesn't mean they share the same role in Naruto as they do in mythology.

------

Kishimoto is deceptive. He wants us to believe some things so he could make us surprised with a good twist, and that is why we are all reading Naruto still.


Anyway, I liked the text and it served me as a good source of information since I didn't know some things.
Good job, DGLG.

DGLG 01-11-2008 06:48 AM

Re: The secret of Akatsuki
 
Shrike, ever thought that Kishi might be combinating mythologys and folktales?
Lets say that Pain rly is a manga version of that Kamui, but Madara might be something connected with Tengu.
If I were Kishi and I would try to hide some secrets about my characters, I would combitante characters and gods from diferent folktales and myhtologys into one.

Shrike 01-11-2008 07:28 AM

Re: The secret of Akatsuki
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DGLG (Post 1399757)
Shrike, ever thought that Kishi might be combinating mythologys and folktales?
Lets say that Pain rly is a manga version of that Kamui, but Madara might be something connected with Tengu.
If I were Kishi and I would try to hide some secrets about my characters, I would combitante characters and gods from diferent folktales and myhtologys into one.

I think he is already doing it.
Sasuke, the legendary hero killed Yamata no Orochi, which was the demon snake with 8 tails and 8 heads.
Many of the Naruto fans thought that it's the 8 tails who is sealed inside Orochimaru.
They were wrong, but it was the same as in legend - Sasuke has slain Orochimaru. Now, Kishi did not make it so obviously and left if that way, he returned Orochimaru withing Kabuto, which has nothing to do with folklore nor mythology, but with his own story.

He combines characteristics and abilities to make unique characters, which would any writer do. He cannot be 100% original, since no one can.

We may see something else which is connected, like Kami Zetsu you mentioned.

trondah 01-11-2008 07:29 AM

Re: The secret of Akatsuki
 
Not to be a dick, but the word is "combining" and "combine" :)

Nice work by the way, interesting to read.

Anbu-Kakashi 01-11-2008 09:22 AM

Re: The secret of Akatsuki
 
Kishi always combines his stuff with mythology time after time he did it. Deidara and garuda ,garuda is a bird like creature even the snake fears it which is why we saw deidara saying i will kill orochiamru. Sasuke beats a stupid demon snake it happened of course oro wasn't the 8 tails but he still was a snake and was slain by a kusangai sword.

Kyuubi and yamata no orochi fought a long battle however kyuubi remained the same without losing an inch of power while orochi was already beaten and he was sealed in side of a lusangai sword which was swalloed up by anothr snake once the kusangai and a human pear up this human will gain great power but orochi will soon take it's natural form.

Oro always had kusangai in his stomach were another snake kept it but soon he showed us his snake form orochi was a demon snake.

everything in this manga is based of some kind of ancient myth and kishi just uses some parts of them that's all.

kluang 01-11-2008 10:28 AM

Re: The secret of Akatsuki
 
Your theory is interesting.........

but the 6 path of Samsara seems relevan too.


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