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Old 11-20-2009, 09:15 PM   #137
Tzu Men
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Sounds like someone just wishing they had a cool role-model who didn't think that looking at other guys in the shower was "sick."
If I considered Naruto as a role model I wouldn't mind if he banged girls or guys, or both, or even inamnimate objects and animals. It doesn't affect what morals of the story are about, it's just another layer of his character for us to interpret.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Your first sentence said it: "jokingly." Believe it or not, but beyond the insane homophobia of male-male relationships, there can be amazingly strong bonds. Loving another man doesn't mean you're going to want to put your Johnson down his hershey canal.
Having strong bonds doesn't stop you wanting to have sex with someone, especially if you love them.
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Originally Posted by Azumi View Post
Oh like Masashi SHOULD think the way DBZ creator do. Seriously. The important thing isn't so much that Naruto and Sasuke actually kiss, it's that the author attempts to make the audience already begin to think of sexual tension between the characters. Proof? And by proof I mean an actual statement from Kishimoto confirming the said theory. >.>
Literary interpretation works by interpreting the author's actions in the writing, Kishimoto could explicitly state that Naruto is straight but it wouldn't destroy any homosexual reading of the series.
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Originally Posted by Azumi View Post
You said romantic? Can you site any hint of this romance you were blabbering with aside from that accidental kiss? Kthx
Btw, accidental kiss =/= romance. >.>
Kissing is usually considered to be romantic if it's not done in a sexual manner. Whether or not it was intentional is irrelevant when considering a subtext.
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Originally Posted by Azumi View Post
How about Naruto did the Sexy no jutsu as an appreciation for feminine beauty? Seriously, you can do a lot of interpretation with that. Im quite amused with yours, though.
Yes, but an alternative interpretation doesn't eliminate the other. The only evidence involved here is that he does it, and he's only explicitly said that he uses the technique to prank adults.
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Originally Posted by Azumi View Post
Well written, I should say. I appreciate the effort you've exerted in writing this.
I wrote this whilst watching countdown and eating soup, there's no need for this.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Exhibit B:

http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.p...uto&c=347&p=10

Naruto says and I quote "I don't want to see that nasty crap."
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
That was a well-formed argument? Most of it was bullshit with no actual evidence. Empirical evidence > personal assumptions.
Interpretation uses evidence but it can't be disproved by it, textual analysis doesn't work like a fan prediction or arguments over canon. It's coined reading between the lines for a reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Naruto has been shown to be blatantly heterosexual and indeed homophobic in many panels, including in the two pages I have already provided.
An opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Some people need new hobbies. Ever notice how the makers of these threads never discuss legitimate Naruto things? Haven't seen any of you guys post in the Naruto manga section in a long time. It's all for the LULZ for you.
I post semi-regularly in the anime and manga sections, but most of the discussion is weak - that's not my fault.
Yes he does, that's not an argument though. It's up to interpretation whether Naruto was sincere in that, or isn't just a hypocrite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Naruto has been a story of bonds since the beginning, circulating around the lives of Uchiha Sasuke and Uzumaki Naruto. Being a shonen ninja-themed adventure story about the brotherhood between the two, it is inevitable for people to jump to the conclusion that homosexual feelings exist between the two.
In a joking manner yes if it wasn't for the other points I discussed in the original post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
This is rather intriguing as Naruto has constantly showed signs of attraction in the opposite sex, while being uncomfortable and indeed homophobic towards depictions of the male body.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtext
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Not many male homosexuals avoid seeing that which they are attracted to.
Unless they are sexually confused, which is a main conclusion of the reading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
The counterargument that this is Naruto hiding his feeling seem to be very delusional as characters are displayed through entirely visual observation in manga. Naruto’s very reactions show disgust, so how are we the audience supposed to interpret it? When Sasuke hits an opponent with a genjutsu, should I simply assume it was ineffetive, despite visual evidence to the contrary? Commentary means nothing without the support of the manga. A few awkward panels (most of which can only be interpreted as homosexual, when one clearly is guided to it) that were done for humour do not matter.
Ad hominem, and once again interpreting subtext doesn't work that way. Besides here the visual evidence is up for debate based upon the supporting body of the argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Why is it interesting that Naruto and Sasuke kiss? The manga, particularly at the beginning, was aimed at teenage boys; what’s more hilarious to them than accidentally kissing another boy and hating it?
I dunno, fart jokes - it had plenty of them. There's no argument against it existing for comic relief, the argument considers why Kishimoto chose that action rather than the alternatives.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Goku’s actions were done in the same fashion: for comic relief. The scene in which Sasuke and Naruto’s kiss takes place is quite intense, as Naruto is belittled into a sense of non-existence. The class hates him and loves Sasuke to the point of idoltary, so in a petty means to make himself feel big, Naruto challenged Sasuke by jumping on his desk. He was pushed into Sasuke and then both proceeded to nearly vomit. How this could be interpreted differently is rather interesting.
You shouldn't inform someone in an argument to anywhere this degree, this is just wasting readers' time.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
By interesting, I mean faulty as a Soviet nuclear power plant in the Ukraine.
By wasting reader's time, I mean as much as making a lame reference to the Chernobyl disaster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Naruto doesn’t accidentally kiss Sakura because it wouldn’t be funny and would be meaningless unless both had the same feeling. This is a sign of a true or even a legitimate romance.
Wait? You’re arguing that Naruto is gay because he likes Sakura because of her physical appearance? Jesus F-ing Christ man. Lamesauce. So a physical attraction can be mimicked for years, so much that he stood up against Gaara for her? Wow, that’s some mighty peer pressure, considering Lee wasn’t met until the Chunin Exams.... must have been hard imitating someone you didn’t know. Er...Naruto thinks “I need to stop making a fool of myself in front of Sakura-chan” and blatantly stops to admire her growth, when has he done that for anyone else?
He complimented Akamaru on his growth too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Naruto ignores Sakura’s confession because of the reasons, shocker!, provided in the chapter. He knows Sasuke is still in Sakua’s heart and she is fooling her self, thus why he becomes visually disappointed from being shocked. He’s a kid on Christmas who just found-out his present was fake. It’s been nearly 3 years of Naruto being sombre in his feelings around Sakura, knowing she loved Sasuke, why would he react incredibly strongly out-of-the-blue? After the death of Jiraiya, the near death of Kakashi and the Pain Arc, I fail to see Naruto being brought to tears about something as little as Sakura lying.
Really? Naruto and Sasuke rarely discussed their emotions. They expressed them in a typical male way: through actions. Just like brothers, they squabble and try to outdo one another, while in the end still loving each other. The panel you provide shows Naruto and Sasuke holding hands. You do realize that that holding hands is not homosexual right? Simply because it is not common in North American and European society does not mean it is homosexual. In Ethiopia, straight men constantly hold hands. It is only homosexual if you deem it so. You have aimed to do so in order to validate your weak argument. When does Naruto give up on his dream of becoming Hokage? He said “a person who cannot save his friend, cannot become Hokage.” In other words, saving Sasuke is the path to becoming Hokage. HUGE difference....Beauty and the Beast... seriously? Your historical analysis is rather faulty as in Sparta, a man’s duty was to provide the city-state with off-spring. Casual homosexual sex was not frowned on, until a man refused to have a wife, as was to be expected. This was state-supported bisexuality, not homosexuality. Good try. Wait. Having a coach who gets laid and being in the same pool of water means something is gay? Jumping to conclusions are we...
Subtext, metaphor, symbolism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Naruto blatantly expressed his love for Sakura, constantly and while he has ignored Hinata, he has come closer to real romance with her than Sasuke. He has said to her “I like people like you,” with Kishimoto obviously hinting at more.
And yet he's consistently been oblivious to her, and the narrative has quickly left her after he confession.

Last edited by Tzu Men; 11-20-2009 at 09:20 PM.
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