Originally Posted by TrueUCHIHA
Tsuna, I appreciate you making fun of my intellegence in this thread, It shows your maturity level in this debate and wether or not i can hold your views valid.
That would have been an insult at your intelligence if I had said, "or RATHER lackthereof". In that sentence, I was representing both sides of the equation, not trying to undermine your intelligence. I didn't explain the reference to Victor because I thought you were stupid, but because it's an obscure reference that I doubted most people on an animu forum would recognize without sufficient elaboration.
Also my "maturity level" has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not my argument could be deemed as valid. If I make a valid point, it's a fucking valid point
, regardless of whether I have the maturity of a toddler or a goddamn senior citizen. Seriously.
Nice try though, buddy.
Where this may be true we can not verify this. Mostly because one we will never again live in a world without religion, and two whos to say that the "moral reasoning" a person comes up with in the absence of religion is moral at all.
Who's to say that it isn't? Is the idea of morality suddenly null and void if religion hadn't been invented? That's like saying there would be no such thing as rationality and logic if something like, say, algebraic proofs hadn't been invented. Just because a certain thing exercises rationality or morality specifically, doesn't mean that either wouldn't exist if certain methods of expressing said ideas weren't present.
Your argument hinges far too much on asking us the question of "Why?" To which we could just as easily rebuke with a simple, "Why not
Now im not saying that positive moral reasoning outside of religion isnt possible im just saying a valid example has yet to be seen. Because as i said our laws today are based off religion similar to how hamurabis code was tied to religion as well
In that case, why are we having this debate?
If this whole argument hinges on whether or not either side can be proven as right or wrong, then this thread is pointless. You cannot prove, undeniably, that religion and morality are inseparable; that without one the other would not exist, or would not have the same meaning, whatever it is you're trying to get at here - I've given up on trying to figure out your stance on this by now.
Likewise, though, I cannot prove, undeniably, that our concept of "morality" would exist without religion, based on your rebuttal that "a valid example has yet to be seen", if that is what it takes to convince you. Because the irrefutable proof is not there, and we're using logic
to support our arguments. Hence why this is a debate, and neither of us are writing a fucking textbook.
Originally Posted by TrueUCHIHA
And you cant be serious about this can you? For instance just because someone is not aware of who are what Jesus is does not mean that their life has been uninfluenced by him at all. Ignorance to a fact does not make it untrue.
Except for the fact that we're not fucking talking about Jesus
Jesus exists as a concept
whether or not someone is "aware of who or what he is".
We're not talking about that
kind of ignorance. We're talking about the kind of ignorance to where you have no exposure
to a concept, and thus do not know it exists, PERIOD.
Am I like, speaking Russian or something? Why is this so hard for you to understand?