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Old 07-12-2010, 07:16 AM   #42
stubborn_d0nkey
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Re: Is it possible for man to live a moral life without religion?

I’ll add my 2 cents on this (couldn’t earlier, timezone difference + during the summer I usually wake up around 11-12)

easily skip-able
First I’d like to say that when I will mostly talk about western civilization and Christianity, which should in some cases be applicable to other western religions and in some cases to eastern civilization and religion. However, I don’t know as much about eastern civilization and religion (as I suspect is the same for most members here) so I won’t claim that my arguments, by default, hold for eastern civilizations (feel free to enlighten me, it will be appreciated).


I do believe that human beings have the capacity to be moral without religion. Actually, I believe that all humans (perhaps with negligible exceptions; later in text PWNE) are by default moral, even savages, since everybody (PWNE) have some feeling of right or wrong, even if you or most people don’t concur with their “right” or their “wrong”.

That is what makes discussing morality very tricky, which is why most people talk about “objective” or “general” morals mostly. That doesn’t make it much easier, since there is no true “objective” morality. Morality slightly differs from person to person in certain situations (probably the most famous example: abortion) morality can also differ from place to place, which makes me come to an important part about morality: nurture.

Nurture is what shapes a big portion of a person’s morality. This holds for both religious and nonreligious people. Nurture comes from your family, and your society. This is why religion has had an influence on everybody’s morality. It didn’t have to be a direct influence (you being religious), but it could come indirectly. It could come from your surroundings, if it’s religious, however that is not the only way, and not the most prominent way.

I think we can all agree that every religion has its own morality that it tries to propagate. Even though you might not be religious, people in your society might not be religious, even if the same holds for your parents and grandparents etc., and their parents and grandparents etc ., some way down the line your ancestors were religious (if not, I must say WOW!!!!). Religion influenced their morality, and through nurture that same influence came to you, which is why religion as influenced the morality of everybody. It doesn’t necessarily define a person’s morality, but influence’s it.

To give some sort of conclusion:

Nature: gives the foundation of morality (the concept of right and wrong)

Nurture (which was influenced by religion): shapes one’s morality.

Individuality
(be it because of nature or nurture- I don’t want to get into a debate about that): gives the finishing touches to one’s morality (ex. abortion :P)

P.S. Some things I’d like to add:

I wrote the first part thinking that my post would be longer (I’m not just a stubborn_d0nkey but also a lazy_d0nkey) so it turned out that it wasn’t really necessary, but I’ll leave it anyways (with the spoiler tag and comment)

I’d also like to comment on some types of arguments, and their strength when dealing with morality.

I myself despise arguments like “everybody says…” “most people believe…”, however when dealing with (general) morality they can’t be dismissed as easily as in other debates. Yeah the don’t prove something true, but when talking about morality it is usually close to impossible, if not impossible, to prove something true (ex. abortion again)

Also often, one exception doesn’t disprove an argument about “general” morality as it does with other things (like seeing one blue elephant automatically disproves the statement: all elephants are pink)

I had some other things I wanted to add (that were more crucial than what I did add) but I forget them (I’m not just a stubborn_d0nkey or a lazy_d0nkey but also a forgetful_d0nkey)

EDIT1: First thing I remembered
If it is not obvious: I do think I person can be moral without religion, however I also believe that that person's morality was influenced by religion.
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Quotes for noobs (learn how to break up a quote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future
So you can post the second bit and i shouldnt be allowed to if i dont tell you? Why be so rude?

Anyways, here is a quotes for noobs guide


1. A basic quote

[*QUOTE][*/QUOTE]

(the * need to be removed for it to work, I put them in so you can see the text) is a basic quote that just wraps something in a quote without saying who quoted it who quoted so

[*QUOTE]this is a quote[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
this is a quote

Edit: there is a button for this, it looks like a speech bubble. If you select text and then press the button the selected text will automatically be wrapped with the quote tag


2. A quote that says who said it

[*QUOTE=who said it][*/QUOTE] this adds who said the post, manually putting that there can be useful when quoting something external. Example:

[*QUOTE=Mangastream]Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangastream
Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us
3. A quote that says who said it and links to the post where it was said

[*QUOTE=who said it;X][*/QUOTE]

Where X is the post number.

For the post that i originally quoted it would look like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]

That is what you get when you press the quote button.

4. Breaking up a quote

Now that you know how quotes work it all boils down to preference, how you want it to look like and how you want to do it.

One way of doing it is copying the latter part of the original quote [*/QUOTE] and then pasting it after each section you break up, write your reply, choose the text you want then paste it after that portion, repeat till you finish the go back and copy then paste the first part of the text at the beginning of each portion of text. Of course you can immediately copy and paste both parts of a poste so that you dont forget one in the end.

The end result would be something like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4



Which without any * would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4


Another way of doing it would be to cut and paste the second part of the quote tag after the first section of text you want to seperate then write your reply select the second part and hit he quote button (it looks like a text bubble),if you do that without anything else the end result would be

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4

Which would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4

To make it like the previous example (which wpuld be preferred, though not necessary ) copy the part that says who posted with the link to the post and paste it accordingly to the proper part in each first half of each quote tag. In my I would copy =minato uchiha;2118164 and paste it where the # is
[*QUOTE#] to get [*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] (of course with the * removed)


Of course you can use any other method you like to get to the end result, but now that you know what the end rwsult looks like I think there shouldnt be any problems

Last edited by stubborn_d0nkey; 07-12-2010 at 07:48 AM.
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