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Old 07-12-2010, 04:20 PM   #60
Miburo
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Re: Is it possible for man to live a moral life without religion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stubborn_d0nkey View Post
I wasn't the one who brought up the "nature/nurture shit" it was katrina, oops (sorry) katie if I'm not mistaken
I don't care who brought it up. I was responding to what you typed in your post. Unless someone else is responsible for the shit you type, then 'who brought it up' doesn't matter.



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You can! Exactly. You can, and you probably will change your opinion on some things. However, do you really think anybody has ever completely changed their whole morality from what they were taught? Or even a bigger portion of it? I would say no. Nurture DOES have an effect on your morality, if you think otherwise you are..... Would any random person have the same morality if they grew up and lived where you did, or in a cannibalistic tribe? No. if you think yes, you are.....
The topic isn't about nurture. It's about morality without religion. If you're taught right and wrong based on religious principles, then later decide to base your morality on reason, then what you were taught doesn't matter.

If I'm taught as a child that killing is wrong because the bible says so, then later decide that killing is wrong based on a logical reason instead, then my morality in that regard isn't being influenced by religion at all. It's being influenced by reason.

It's not a hard topic of debate to comprehend. Can one live a moral life without religion? Yes. Does that include any direct influence on one's morality by religion? Yes. If you agree with this, then your argument is wrong. It doesn't matter if people can be influenced by religion, since that's not what the topic is about. If that's what you're saying, then whatever. I don't give a fuck. Since that's not the question you're suppose to be answering in this debate.

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Anyways, I see you are using one of your usual tactics. Making your arguments not about what the other person wrote, but something that seems similar, but what isn't what that person meant. They are usually solid arguments since you usually pick something similar that is easy to defend. If somebody read your post they would think you are arguing against something totally different than what I wrote.
What? I'm directly arguing against what you wrote. You cannot point out any strawman fallacies in my arguments.

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I argued for religion through nurture (and thus nurture) influencing one's morality. You argued for people being able to chose/decide upon their morality through reasoning and thinking. They are not contradicting statements! Nurture influencing one's morality does not mean people can't decide for themselves! That is why your post is useless as a reply to my post!
Except they are contradicting claims. Example where the nurture argument actually applies: Let's say homosexuals are attracted to people of the same sex due to the environment they were raised in. They do not consciously choose this attraction. They cannot just will an attraction towards something else.

That isn't the case with one's choice of personal code of conduct. Not in the least. I can willingly choose all aspects of my moral code without any influence by religion at all by simply basing my morality solely on reason. If that is possible, which is it, then the claim that religion influences one's morality is false. Sure, it can, if someone chooses to base their morality on religion. But, like I said, that doesn't matter. Since the question isn't can morality be influenced by religion. It's if one can be moral without religion.



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Both of those were mostly to avoid future arguments of that type.

BTW. You can show, but you can't prove something is moral. If you believe that it is possible, then you are somewhat contradicting yourself.
Well, thanks for the tips, debate wizard. I'd focus more on making sure my own arguments were solid before handing out advice if I were you. But whatever.

And okay. I can prove something is logical or illogical though. And in the realm of rational thinking, that's pretty significant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stubborn_d0nkey View Post
Can you answer one question before I reply? Is morality void of subconscious belief?
If it's based on reason and logic, then yeah.
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