Franky
Worshipping the strongest God doesn't necessarily have to be part of this discussion. But debate over which God best fits the scriptures and rational thought is the premise worth debating over here. Gods existence is not dependent on whether you believe in him, therefore saying that you don't believe in this God or that god doesn't constitute an argument, just a personal choice or opinion.
July 10 at 7:08pm · Like
Franky
Neither of which concern me...
July 10 at 7:11pm · Like
William
Define reason and authority, then explain why the Scripture has it and how. That's the root of the discussion.
July 10 at 7:15pm · Like
Joseph
I don't suppose you've ever heard of universal and particular causes and the distinction between the two have you Franky?
July 10 at 7:29pm · Like
Jonathan
What are you trying to do Joseph? Impress us with your knowledge of St. Thomas? Are we children? please do not try to attack Franky because he has not read St. Thomas. There is nothing impressive about that. Besides, if you think that distinction came from St. Thomas, it did not. It is a very old distinction from the Greeks, specifically Aristotle's metaphysics.
July 10 at 7:54pm · Like
Joseph
As I am more than aware. He has yet to read it, so I thought I'd outline it for him. I have not desired to attack him or you or anyone. I'm considerably more nasty when I do.
July 10 at 7:56pm · Like
Jonathan
----Very good question. You may need to consult someone other than the people in this post to have a satisfactory explanation for why Christians believe the Bible is accurate, and authoritative. I could tell you why I think so, but there is no time for that of FB. Maybe over pipes? lol
July 10 at 7:58pm · Like
William
I was just pointing up the central problems, not so much asking for an answer... I have something like three different books on Scripture and Authority going right now. And I'm actually working on Faith and Rationality for a paper. So those are problems I'm tackling myself. And I'm up for discussion and smoking as a matter of course.
July 10 at 8:02pm · Like
Bryant
Okay, here comes the next long one. Sorry to interrupt, but I guess that's just how these conversations go
July 10 at 8:04pm · Like
Bryant
Thanks Franky, much appreciated
Just a heads up, I can relate to everyone in this conversation. All of this is very close to my heart. I cannot become emotionally unattached, and in conversations like this, I think it is a mistake to be so. Anyways, just a heads up: if I say anything that offends any of my brothers, (and if you are saved, you are my brother. Period) I apologize, for such was not my intention; it was only a result of my passion that the name and glory of Christ be proclaimed.
Before we continue on, let’s bring the Bible into this, shall we?
“’You have heard that it was said, “You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.” But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.’”
Matt 5:43-48 (ESV)
This makes it very clear to me: as Christians, we are to love our enemies—those who persecute us. Think about that. Love. Them. Who persecutes Christians? Is it not someone full of evil and sin in their heart? Probably not saved. Scratch that, definitely not saved. And we’re supposed to love them. Why? Look at the verse: so we can be sons of our Father. What do sons do? They do what the Father does. It’s this makes it clear: we are supposed to love the wicked because Jesus loves the wicked. Period.
So think about this verse. That paints a very different picture than the attitude “You’re a sinner, so I can do what I want with you, even if that’s making you get burned at the stake.” This verse is very clear: that is NOT God’s intention. It’s not his plan. It’s not His will. He loves the person getting raped. He. Loves. Them. He doesn’t want them to endure such pain and trauma. He doesn’t. Because He loves them, even if they are a sinner at core and his enemies—the object of his wrath. He still loves them.
For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.
1 Tim 4:4-5 (ESV)
This is verse is simply a passing comment by Paul when he is speaking of those who fall away by devoting themselves to false teachings. This speaks to me the obvious, which is pretty simple. God doesn’t make bad things. He makes good things. I think the reason this is not discussed very much in Scripture is because everybody assumed it. When you say God is good, it means just that. God is good. He does good things. He wishes for there to be good things. He is good. A good man wishes for good to prosper. Not evil. God did not bring evil into existence. We did. And He let us. But He didn’t do it, and He didn’t want it. Bible says so.
He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
Micah 6:8 (ESV)
What is good? To love kindness. Quite straightforward. God is good. God loves kindness. The opposite is also true: God does not love wickedness. In fact, it’s obvious that God hates evil. God is not going to decree that someone commit evil if He hates it. Because… well, He hates evil. Plain and simple.
Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.
Romans 12:9 (ESV)
God is love. Love hates evil. God hates evil. He does not wish for there to be evil in the world. He hates it. Soon, he will wipe it all out. But He withholds His hand, “not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9 (ESV). God does not wish for anyone to perish, but that all should reach repentance. Again, very clear. God does not wish for there to be death. His good and perfect will finds no pleasure in the deeds of the wicked.
July 10 at 8:05pm · Like · 3 people