Originally Posted by Demi-God
Just because something isn't "real" for one person as it may be for another, doesn't make the delusions of that person valid in any way shape or form.
As for disproving God, there is nothing to disprove, the burden of proof is with the believers and the claim that "you can't disprove it, thus it's an option" isn't a very good one. As for the Big Bang question, just because some may see it as an act of God, it does not make it so, please understand this. I could choose to see it as the results of a farting unicorn but that does not make it a form of reality unless I have evidence to back it up.
Your 4 witness accident thing is flawed. It depends on how much they vary, if for example one witness saw one side of the car while another saw the other side, then yes, they will be both talking about the same accident albeit different accounts of it. But it's still the same accident and if anybody was standing in the same position as either of those guys then they would be able to witness that same thing... because it's there.
Now, if one of those guys says that they saw a fart propelled unicorn fly out of the windshield and nobody else could see it, sure it may be reality for that person because they might have deluded themselves into believing it (shock, psychological problems and various other things could have taken place), but if there's no evidence suggesting it's real nor is it observable in any sense by others, then nein.
I can't prove with physical evidence that there is a God but what I can do is list things that I consider intervention in ones life where the outcome is highly unlikely such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU6Nx5wFzpM
Now there is a scientific and mathematical equation that would give the same outcome.. but for everything to line up in the manner it does .. it's highly unlikly.. but there you have it.. something seemingly impossible.. being possible.
Belief and faith require on some level things that can't be explained in normal terms or is at an un-attainable level of human knowledge that it borders the supernatural.
I believe in a force that has a design to things and science to me bridges that gap by there being an order to the universe.. gravity, potential an kinetic energy and so forth all have laws or rules.. who or what set these boundaries.. and if something set a boundary.. then surely it can counter that boundary since it put it in place
Originally Posted by Miburo
Yeah, I understand what you're saying. Because of that understanding, I can say it's stupid. Or, at the very least, completely useless from a functional perspective.
No, they're not each right. They might not by lying, they might earnestly believe what they saw, but they can still be completely wrong when it comes to what actually happened. (Edit: Arty addressed this better than me. I was operating as if 'different' implied contradicting claims.)
If you and I are watching a magic trick and you come to the conclusion that it's actually magic and not a slight of hand we just witnessed, while I think it is not magic and just a slight of hand, one of us is wrong. It's either actually magic or just a trick. Since every magic trick ever isn't really magic, and we're aware that there are ways to trick people with slight of hands and whatnot, the logical conclusion is that it's not actual wizard type magic shit.
That doesn't mean it doesn't exist until we focus on it. At all, in any way. "Focusing" on something won't make it exist. You cannot will things into existence. Hell, you can barely form coherent thoughts. Start with the small stuff first...
I dunno. Not really awesome at that type of physics, or any type of physics that doesn't involve off-balancing and then slamming the fuck outta someone. I think, according to the big bang scientific theory, that it's suppose to be some sort of singularity, and it wouldn't actually be 'before' in the sense that there was no actual time until the big bang. But, like I said, not my area of expertise.
What I am pretty decent at is logic. And assuming supernatural omnipotent beings exist because you're too much of a tool to simply admit you don't know without bullshitting some explanation that boils down to "goddiditlololol" isn't fucking logical in any way.
And like ACt already pointed out, we're talking about god as some sort of supernatural being. If you want to call something else god to suggest god exists, then go right ahead. That's either stupid or dishonest, and you deserve to be made fun of if that's what you're going to do.
Luckily, I understand how basic logic works. Meaning I know that the burden of proof falls on anyone saying God exists, not those justifiably skeptical of groundless claims. No need to disprove something that hasn't even been proven.
God as a supernatural being.. if you want to take that God is a man floating on a cloud then no that's not ever gonna be proven .. unless we actually witness it. the overall view of God in this manner is no more accurate than the earth being flat vs round people believed that the earth was flat until it was proven otherwise . Describing God on your terms to fit a definition that's shown to be false .. well that will forever be wrong .. but as knowledge increases why can't the definition of god progress in the same manner of the truth of the earth being flat got redefined as round.
At one point in time atoms , particles electrons and neutrons were the smallest building blocks of matter .. but since then we learned that there's quarks so now the definition of the smallest building block has changed
Time is just something we came up with to make life for us easier.. there's no such thing as the past or the future.. there's on the present.. but somehow we can look out across the stars and see something that happened years ago.. if it works in one direction why isn't it possible to see the future if everything exists in the here and now.
Would a being on the event horizon of the big bang exist at the same time as something in the wake of the bang..
There's just somethings we simply don't have the answers to.. but from science one can learn that a belief or hypothesis can one day be considered a reality.
Not here to preach or convert anyone .. All i can do is state what straws I grasped at that leads me to believe in a God somewhere