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Old 11-16-2011, 10:53 PM   #6
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Re: Death Penalty

Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
Devils advocate eh? OK, I'll play along.
Yeah, why not.

That's should be obvious. If the crime involves the willful and deliberate taking of life, then that deserves the death penalty. Murder in general warrants this, except in certain cases where it was caused through negligence.
So who decides if your negligence was extreme enough to warrant death? That particular judge or jury you end up with?

There's always that possibility, an in truth there's no way to be 100% sure of a persons guilt. However their are ways of minimizing the risk. SEE BELOW.
Not without the death penalty.

Correct. Most innocent people that get convicted, are due to shitty investigations by local or state police. While it isn't as likely to happen today, their are a multitude of cases in the past where a crime was "pinned on the black guy". Racist local cops exist. Or at least shitty deadbeat cops exist.
So you know that innocent people are found guilty, and your ok with possibly murdering an innocent man? Especially if a good man died because of a deadbeat cop.

Should a murder case that might involve the death sentence really be put in the hands of some small town sheriff department, that might not have the resources to investigate properly
Sorry, If I was about to be put to death, that sheriff could kiss my ass, lawyers are your friend in any legal situation.

and has the potential risk to bring local politics into the situation. After all, the sheriff wants to be reelected for his next term, and convicting a popular guy in town or maybe his own supporter doesn't help him. It far better to have somebody that isn't biased in the case and has nothing to gain or lose, to do the investigation.
Right, because the sheriff would like to risk almost everything for the vote of this one potential murderer, when he could catch the supposed criminal, and gain support from the entire area. If local politics are brought in, it increases the chance of sending and innocent man to death, and letting a guilty man walk.

The appeal process doesn't actively seek to find new evidence.
Huh? Considering the appeal is a matter of life and death, the defendant and the lawyer are doing everything they can.

Only way that's going to happen is if you pay a private investigator to look into it for you, and that's takes money. If you're some poor dude locked up in jail, you have no money and no way of making any. Is it really fair that someone who has that money can afford to investigate, while the poor guy can't. Everybody deserves equal rights under the law. Whether or not you can afford to prove your innocence shouldn't be a matter of economic prosperity, but a right that's granted to you. That's means that law enforcement should actively reopen the cases of death row inmates as a public service to those inmates for the sake of justice.
Isn't that what you're paying the multitude of lawyers for? I agree it's not right. Money is power now-a-days. Our legal system doesn't just work off of justice and peoples rights. Death row inmates have plenty opportunity to reopen them themselves.

The punishment must fit the crime.
Because it's totally ok and non-hypocritical for the government to tell you it's not ok to kill, by killing you.

It's just that simple. Executions not only punish that individual people, but help prevent future crimes.
Executions are barbaric, and serve no real purpose todays world. Vengeance..

Knowing that your state has no problems killing you, should have a significant effect on your choice to kill someone.
Nobody in the moment of killing somebody is thinking "shit I could go to jail for this, maybe I should rethink" Instead it's more, "I'm going to fucking kill you!"

So if one death can prevent future deaths, I see that as morally acceptable.
Tell me how getting killed by your government is going to prevent future death. That's what laws are for, hell that's what religion is for. We've already got plenty of shit to scare people, it still won't stop happening, so why murder somebody who could be more miserable wasting away in a jail, and let them(imo since I'm Atheist) just get game over, nothing, no guilt no conscience, nothing not black, nothing. That seems a lot easier than living the rest of your days, minutes, seconds, in a shitty ass jail.

Most people value their own lives. I know I'll fight tooth and nail to stay alive. So the notion that death is an easy way out is absolutely absurd.
Unless you strongly believe they will end up in hell, and burn for eternity, there is nothing absurd about it.

As for money playing a role in it, yeah it does. On average it's cost over $25,000 a year to house an inmate, and their are over 3,200 people on death row. Do the math. That's over 80 million dollars that could be spent on more important crime prevention programs.
On average, it cost an additional $90,000 per inmate sentenced to death. Go ahead and do your $90,000 multiplied by 3,200. Guess which number is bigger. Read this article. It actually cost more to kill somebody than it does to house them in a cage.

Death penalty trials are more expensive for several reasons: They often require extra lawyers; there are strict experience requirements for attorneys, leading to lengthy appellate waits while capable counsel is sought for the accused; security costs are higher, as well as costs for processing evidence — DNA testing, for example, is far more expensive than simple blood analyses.
After sentencing, prices continue to rise. It costs more to house death row inmates, who are held in segregated sections, in individual cells, with guards delivering everything from daily meals to toilet paper.
In California, home to the nation's biggest death row population at 667, it costs an extra $90,000 per inmate to imprison someone sentenced to death — an additional expense that totals more than $63.3 million annually, according to a 2008 study by the state's Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice.
California's slow appeals system produces an average wait of nearly 20 years from conviction to fatal injection — the longest in the nation. Of the nine convicted killers McCartin sent to death row, only one has died. Not by execution, but from a heart attack in custody.

"Every one of my cases is bogged up in the appellate system," said McCartin, who retired in 1993 after 15 years on the bench....

Across the country, the number of prisoners exonerated and released from death row is more than 130. Thousands of appeals are clogging the courts.

The article I posted above lays it out pretty clear, if you go to it. It's so much more expensive for the state to kill someone rather than to imprison them for life because death penalty trials are lengthy, drawn out, and include great detail, death row prisoners have to be housed in a complete different area than other prisoners, and most men or women on death row file many appeals because it is a matter of life and death.

"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." -M. K. Gandhi
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