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Old 12-21-2011, 05:43 AM   #106
Numinous
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Re: Us government's trick to violate civil liberties

Well HR, if you're so desperate to touch the "other side" of this lunacy of a theory, I'll respond to the post where you quoted me on ZIP Codes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Rasengan View Post
Some specific event in U.S. history, such as the Civil War, the Great Depression, or the passage of some national debt threshold, actually caused the United States to cease to exist under the Constitution;
That is stupid. A country cannot cease under the same constitution it created, only the other way around is possible, since, you know, constitutions can be amended if something on them is outdated.

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all actions in the name of the U.S. government since that event are part of a conspiracy by those in power to retain the appearance of constitutional authority.
That is stupid. Amendments exist, so the need of a needlessly complicated conspiracy is null.

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The gold fringe around the American flag, as displayed in many federal courts, designates them as Admiralty courts, which cannot hear other kinds of cases, or signal that the court is operating under martial law.[3]
Hey, you didn't even bother to copy-paste this shit right!

Quote:
In United States v. Greenstreet, the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas noted: "Defendant Greenstreet's response to Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment identifies this Court as an 'Admiralty Court' without further discussing his allegation. If his reference is to be construed as a jurisdictional challenge, his motion is denied. Others have attempted to persuade the judiciary that fringe on an American flag denotes a court of admiralty. In light of the fact that this Court has such a flag in its courtroom, the issue is addressed. The concept behind the theory the proponent asserts is that if a courtroom is adorned with a flag which happens to be fringed around the edges, such decor indicates that the court is one of admiralty jurisdiction exclusively.
And that is stupid. From ushistory.org:

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What does the fringe on the flag represent?
The gold trim is found on ceremonial flags, to be used indoors and for ceremonies only. They originally were used on military flags. The fringe has no specific significance, but is considered completely within the guidelines of proper flag etiquette. There is nothing in the flag code indicating that the fringe is for federal government flags only. The Internet contains many sites that claim that the fringe indicates martial law or that the Constitution does not apply in that area. These are entirely unfounded (usually citing Executive Order 10834 and inventing text that is not part of the order) and should be dismissed as urban legends.
If you actually consulted sites that aren't plagued by conspiracy nuts you'd know that's just crazy talk.

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The PRA [the Paperwork Reduction Act] requires that all government agencies display valid OMB control numbers and certain disclosures directly on all information collection forms that the public is requested to file. [The defendant's] sole defense was he was not required to file an IRS Form 1040 because it displays an invalid OMB control number. Government officials knew that if the case went to trial, it would expose the fraudulent, counterfeit 1040.
Hummm, how the hell does that happen if the IRS form 1040's OMB of everybody is the same (1545-0074)? And how does that have any thing to with courts (unless it is about fiscal fraud but, then again, since the forms have the same number that's pretty stupid to advocate).

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They also must have known that a trial would expose the ongoing conspiracy between OMB and IRS to publish 1040 forms each year that those agencies knew were in violation of the PRA. That would raise the issue that the Form 1040, with its invalid control number, is being used by the Government to cover up the underlying constitutional tort -- that is, the enforcement of a direct, unapportioned tax on the labor of every working man, women and child in America
That is stupid. I already pointed out that the OMB is the same in the forms, so no violation of the PRA there and therefore, no discovery of some loltastic constitutional "tort". Also, the wording given to the IRS in the text you copy-pasted reeks of someone who doesn't want to pay taxes and comes up with silly theories to prove him/her right.

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The contention that paper money is illegal has been consistently rejected.
Wut? Paper money was invented in the 7th century in China, so the concept is more than a millenium older than the US itself, how the hell can it be illegal?!

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Congress has exercised this power by delegation to the federal reserve system. 12 U.S.C. section 411.Federal reserve notes are legal tender for all debts, including taxes. 31 U.S.C. section 392 [now 31 U.S.C. ยง 5103]; Milam v. U.S. 524 F.2d 629 (9th Cir. 1974). The United States Constitution, art. 1, section 10, 'prohibits the states from declaring legal tender anything other than gold or silver.
Oh, now I see why you would think paper money is illegal, but that is stupid. The Legal Tender Act of 1862 legalized the issuing of paper money due to the Civil War making only pure silver and gold coins the only legal tender pretty much inviable. And the Constitution allows it, Article I, section 8, clause 18:

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To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Article I, section 8, clause 8:

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To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
Since gold and silver coinage wasn't proper anymore, these two clauses give the Executive branch the power to have a law that allows the necessity of using paper money for the economy, crippled by the Civil War, to be back on its feet.

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THe movement has roots in Occupy walstreet, the Tea party( since most of this has to do with unfair taxation) the redemption movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement Sovereign citizens Movement and many other small groups are all lumped into a domestic terrorist group monitored by the FBI and persecuted by the IRS.
And the same wikipedia article says why the Redemption movement is being lumped with the criminal:

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The U.S. Internal Revenue Service has included the "straw man" claim in its list of frivolous positions that may result in the imposition of a $5,000 penalty when used as the basis for an inaccurate tax return.[5] Likewise the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) regards the instructors and promoters of Redemption schemes as fraudsters.[3]
And they're in their right to do so. These guys are using a conspiracy theory to evade taxes and do fraudulent businesses and that's illegal. You can't seriously expect the IRS and the FBI to pat in the back people who clearly are committing a felony just because.


So, will you stop trying necro'ing this failure of a theory?















Wait a minute, where does this address ZIP Codes at all, HR?!

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Actually, he is the one who implied it had an age requirement.
I implied it had a maturity requirement.
How do you even wake up in the morning knowing that you're such a filthy liar?!
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