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Old 08-30-2012, 08:27 AM   #241
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Re: Naruto_599

Damn, you guys talk a LOT when Europe is asleep. Goddamn time zones!

But let's start the Plot Hole Flying Cirrrrrrrcussss!!!
  • Plot Holes vs Retcons
EoJ is crying his little heart out about how Minato's face in the monument and Kakashi being in the same Chuunin Exams as Obito are somehow retcons and not plot holes. While technically retcons aren't plot holes per se, they're the weakest kind of plot patching there is that still include some kind of plot hole. It's like covering a pit with a net and a bunch of leaves, you no longer see the pit but it's still there.

Also, what is the guarantee they're indeed retcons and not your standard plot hole? Normally, retcons are when the new continuity is expanded upon while the previous continuity is disregarded. But there's still no expansion upon the newest continuity so, until there's such a thing, they're plot holes.

Finally, on this point, why these plot holes? The Hokage Monument would have the same effect without Minato's face on it and Kakashi could still be part of the flashback as a good friend or something in those lines. EoJ complains that Kakashi being Chuunin at the age 6 was stupid, but I object. Kishi had all the time he wanted to produce the Databooks, so I assume he thought them through. He wrote Obito's entrance years after Kakashi's entrance and, if he didn't want the Chuunin Promotion ages to coincide back then when the material was fresh, why now? Because he fucked up, simple as that. Speaking of fuck ups.
  • Art fuck ups vs Plot Holes
EoJ again wanted to use Kishi making an art mistake to cover up the plot hole... by using a cameo from the anime. It's baffling how that even makes sense as an example, but I understand what he meant. Kishi drew A with both hands recently, Pain had once a Konoha headband and Kakashi's eye scar went missing for a famous panel.

The thing is, they're minor details that aren't the focus of the panel, unlike the Hokage Monument, which the faces were the damn focus of the panel representing Obito's desire to emulate the Hokage ideal. So no, it wasn't a fuck up due to distraction, it was deliberate. And Kishi deliberately put Minato's face in the Monument 2 whole years before his official entitlement to the position of Hokage.

But now for Tobi=Obito specific plot holes:
  • Growth inconsistency vs Growth spurt.
Yet again, EoJ brushed off the 21 cm height difference between Obito's "death" and Tobi's invasion of Konoha. And he probably never seen people grow. The average growth between the ages of 13 and 14 is 8 cm, but of course not everyone grows those 8 cm. Some grow just 5 cm, others 12 cm. But no way in hell they grow 21 cm unless they have hormonal problems (which Obito demonstrably hasn't, since male growth spurts normally start at the age of 10 or close to it and Obito doesn't seem to grow that much between his Chuunin Promotion and his "death").

Oh and I looked up Dennis Roddman. He was 5'9'' at the age of 17 (at the end of his 11th grade) and 6'5'' at the age of 20. Nice try bullshitting your way, but it's a noticeable growth spurt because it happened in less than 3 years instead of the normal 4 it'd take.

People are trying to find some hyperbolic time chamber within Kamui, which isn't consistent with how Kamui works. For it to work, Kamui's time progression would have to be at least 4 times slower than the normal one, which raises the problem of Torune and Fuu being many days within Kamui's dimension and not starving to death. It was already a stretch within the manga with a normal time progression, and you want time to be stretched 4 times without at least one of them either dead or cannibalized? I won't even touch the suggestion of using Tsukuyomi as said time chamber, because that's not even how that jutsu works.
  • Kisame's face recognition vs Henge no Jutsu.
Oh EoJ, stop embarrassing yourself. Henge no Jutsu ALWAYS leaves a trail of smoke when used, so if Obito used it to fool Kisame, he must be a goddamn psychic to put himself in henge just in case Kisame would want to see his face. Or maybe, as in the most logical stance, the faces were the same (and yes, he saw the long-haired Tobi's face, or else that plot thread is a complete non-sequitur).

It could be because Obito was also the long-haired Tobi, but the thing is the manga implies the Bloody Mist era ended approximately when the Uchiha Massacre happened. It'd be consistent for Kisame, who would be 24 by then and shows the age in the flashback he had... but not so much for Obito. Obito is actually younger than Kisame by 2 years, and Kisame wouldn't go "the fuck?" when seeing that Madara looks an hell younger than he's supposed to?

Madara should (and I mean should, I'm not certain he is) be the one behind Yagura to validate Kisame's flashback, but the thing is either Kisame shares ACt's racial myopia or Kishi fucked up yet another plotline just to detour the fans, which would be yet another sign of his shitty writing. No good writer needs to conjure up lies about his plot to aid a mystery, it all should fit neatly like a puzzle with no spare parts.

Well, now that's out of the way:

Originally Posted by AniMeFaN View Post
Im not nitpicking. Just think the real fag here would be someone who pretends they dont know whether something was mentioned before in this thread when they got those exact ideas from a post they thanked in the thread.
WHO. FUCKING. CARES?!! It was me who pointed out the plot holes (based on j_H's post) and I don't even care, why should you? What, people can't say their piece even if it's based on someone else's post?

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Last edited by Numinous; 08-30-2012 at 08:59 AM.
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