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Old 10-07-2012, 03:02 AM   #38
Konnaha_yellow_flash
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Re: Secret behind Obito's Kamui?

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Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
@Kyf: not saying you're wrong but lets consider a few things, and some of the things you said, I agree with. Others I dont.

Koto: we have NO way of knowing if the 10 yr limitation applies to Shisui himself. We know it applied to when Itachi had his eye but its seems highly unlikely(imo) that Shisui himself needed Hashi's power to use koto or else wait a decade to use his own power.
But that is my point... If the MS of shisui's requires hashirama's power to use like any other MS jutsu (couple times a day at most) and he did not have to wait ten years between each of his uses of his own genjutsu otherwise he would have used it only twice or so in his lifetime...
Shisui must of had hashirama's chakra or something equal to it, thus the reason he could use Kotoamatsukami more then once every ten years, and itachi stated only hashirama's chakra could do this so... it had to be hashirama's chakra just as itachi stated; it must be to use it more then once a decade...

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Koto is the most powerful genjutsu but that does in no way mean, it requires Hashi's dna to power it or awaken it. Its an Uchiha Ms technique and in keeping with the trend, most Ms techniques are said to be the most powerful jutsu in their particular area.
How does talent apply with Koto? Itachi, a genjutsu master still awakened tsukuyomi... and sasuke, a master of ninjutsu still awakened amaterasu...
However, Obito, an average uchiha , but with the power of hashirama senju at his disposal, awakened Kamui... a ninjutsu that surpasses amaterasu... and in both eyes...

Then we have shisui... an uchiha who has been implied to have hashirama's chakra on two separate occasions just happens to also have a jutsu that surpasses the standard like obito's does (Kotoamatsukima is a super tsukuyomi)... which is in both eyes as well, just like obito's kamui is...

ANd now that the manga implies that it would be senju+uchiha's power, or rather hashirama's power plus an uchiha's that would take the power of the SG to a whole other level which would awaken a power never seen before as opposed to the standard tsukuyomi, amaterasu and sasanoo...

Kotoamatsukami is a whole new level of genjutsu from tsukuyomi and never seen before or since...
Kamui is also of a whole other level from amaterasu and has never been seen before or since... All evidence points to Koto and kamui as eye technique that come from the union of senju and uchiha (obito/shisui+hashirama's power)... IMO...

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Example, amatersau: most powerful fire jutsu in the manga. Tsukuyomi: quickest most powerful genjutsu we've seen in the manga, when used by Itachi. Susanoo: I know the sacred treasures aren't Uchiha per say, but the point still stands. Totsuka, most powerful and quickest sealing technique we've seen and Yata, the greatest elemental defence in the manga.
Most powerful fire attack yes, but kamui surpasses amaterasu by leagues... and tsukuyomi is nothing compared to Kotoamatsukami that can literally do what tsukuyomi wishes it could... actually control the mind of the enemy and without them having a clue either...

Kamui is the hashirama powered up amaterasu and Kotoamatsukami is the hashirama powered up tsukuyomi IMO... Such powerful jutsu have only come from shinobi linked to hashirama's chakra/cells...
while those who awaken amaterasu, tsukuyomi and sasanoo are all basic uchiha's with no other bloodline of the sage at their disposal...

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So the point is, the fact that Koto is so powerful, does NOT necessarily mean its due to Hashirama. I do agree with you that Shisui's chakra must be the same in colour to Hashirama's, if Ao and his byakugan thought so.
But how? Those who only possess the power of the uchiha awaken tsukuyomi, amaterasu and sasanoo like itachi, sasuke, izuna and madara...
Meanwhile, those who possess the power of the uchiha and are known to have use of hashirama senju's power have awaken MS jutsu that surpass the standard, but in both eyes, not one different for each eye... Kakashi being the only case this is off, but his ancestry or role in any experiments with hashirama's or regular senju's DNA has yet to of been mentioned so it is still possible...

And yes shisui's color is what is mentioned by AO, but it was shisui's chakra none the less AO recognized in danzou's arm, shoulder and eye... But turned out to be hashirama's power instead implying that shisui had use of hashirama's chakra making him perhaps an unknown survivor of Oro's experiment...
Then itachi stated that to use shisui's eye more then once a decade/10 years... that one would have to use hashirama's chakra... and since shisui had to of used his jutsu more then 2-3 times in his life... SHisui had to of had access to hashirama's chakra to use his own jutsu... thus why shisui's chakra was mistaken in danzou's arm, shoulder and eye... because shisui used hashirama's chakra... the reason just has yet to be mentioned...

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The origin of the rinnegan is an iffy subject. Kabuto and Orochimaru's hypothesis about the final stage of the sharingan, made no mention of combining Uchiha and Senju to achieve it. On the other hand, Madara only awakened his rinnegan after VOTE, which infers that it had something to do with stealing the 1st dna.
No it did not mention it... I agree... however, it literally showed it IMO.....

Madara uchiha with his EMS (the full power of the SG) had his body altered and infused completely with hashirama's cells to give him a hashirama body, thus created a madara/hashirama hybrid bringing together senju and uchiha which then created the RG out of the EMS...
It was due to the union of the elder son of the sage (uchiha ancestor) and the younger so of the sage (Senju/uzumaki ancestor) being reunited, after the sage himself split his power between his two sons...

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Izanagi, as you correctly said, has different versions and forms. The original.Izanagi was the Sage's, as Obito explained, was to create. Then we have the Uchiha kinjutsu which did NOT require Senju dna. Lol ppl seem to omit that. Finally, we have Izanagi powered by Hashi's/Senju dna which allows the user to prolong Izanagi's effect.
Good analysis.... glad to see not everyone is deluding themselves about Izanagi not having different versions... Kudos...

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About the Hatake Clan, we have NO IDEA of their origin and nothing implies they are from the Younger Son. We currently know of only 2 Hatake members, Kakashi and his father. Kakashi's low chakra capacity suggests the opposite of what you are claiming so I fail to see the links to Senju/Uzamaki.
I know, kakashi's lack of stamina does make it hard to see him as a descendant of the younger son of the sage like hashirama is... But, kakashi's inability to use the jutsu as it can be... like how obito uses it, could be from the lack of hashirama chakra, but still have regular senju level chakra... It's just that obito has two different variations that are more like two separate techniques while kakashi can only use one variation half way by collapsing space to draw things into another dimension, but lacking the ability to bring w/e back out like obito can do... it's something that could be due to obito having hashirama, the ultimate senju's chakra while kakashi only has at best the chakra level of an avergae senju...
So maybe kakashi can produce enough chakra to awaken a version of kamui, but cannot use it properly or very long due to his lacking of hashirama senju level chakra for stamina and more power... but still senju-like chakra so he can awaken and half ass use kamui though...
That is what I think might be going on...
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No matter how POWERFUL/STRONG you are. If you cannot CATCH your Enemy, all you POWER/STRENGTH is no more USEFUL then a squirt gun....
And if You cannot possibly TRACK/REACT to your enemies attacks to Defend yourself, then how can you possibly stop him from DEFEATING you at WILL...


MINATO "KYF" NAMIKAZE.

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Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
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so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....


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