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Old 12-09-2012, 08:51 AM   #72
Numinous
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Re: Naruto 612 Discussion

Please move the discussion to the One Piece section, since it belongs there. However, I'll throw my two cents on the matter. (WARNING, SPOILERS AHEAD, under spoiler tag).

@prez: you're an idiot. Either you don't know what a cheat means or you think good ancestry automatically equals cheat. If it the latter, sorry to say but you need to distinguish the instances in order to say if ancestry is a cheat or not.

Let's take Naruto for example, since we're in its section. After the Child of Prophecy crap, you have Naruto with:
  • A lineage that granted him a wide pool of chakra so he could spam all the jutsu he wants
  • And the lineage also granted him a connection to RS
  • A failsafe set by Minato just in case he'd lose control to Kurama
  • A failsafe set by Kushina to help defeat Kurama
  • Kurama itself is a power up intentionally placed by Minato
  • And even if Kurama is taken away from him, Naruto won't die due to his lineage
  • You could argue that all his abilities are derived or only possible due to his ancestry (Fuuton can be argued, since it's an unknown)
And Luffy has from his ancestry:
  • The Will of D
  • Dragon saving him in Loguetown
Whoop-di-doo, am I right? Luffy could say he doesn't owe shit to his ancestors and he wouldn't be off the truth by much. His main powers, from the Gomu Gomu DF, are born from an accident.
Haki can be used by virtually anyone and combining Haki with DF is his doing. Garp not arresting him at the end of the CP9 saga isn't even a cheat, considering Aokiji could own the Straw Hats when he first met them and he didn't, even thought he had no relation with them whatsoever, meaning that Marines as a whole can let shit pass their radars if it doesn't fancy them.



Also, about that Yonkou bit, either you're talking about Shanks or Rayleigh and failing at it. Shanks only helped him when Luffy was a kid, after that he helped him with squat. Heck, in Marineford the only "good guy" Shanks helped was Coby that was about to be roflstomped by Akainu. And Rayleigh, who hasn't any ranking in the pirate world for that matter, indeed trained Luffy. As Jiraiya trained Naruto. As Urahara trained Ichigo, and so on, so on. A big name helping the main character isn't a cheat, it's a trope that falls under the main character's prerogative.


So please, do tell where the cheats are.

@ckraizitee: Only one of your objection has any merit considering you're still in the Baroque Works saga, and that's Lassou being a gun with DF powers. As you'll see later in the manga, two other inanimate objects also gain DF powers and it's revealed it's possible to acquire DF powers without eating the fruit (and there are people actively working on the case), so in truth Lassou, the gun, did not eat the Inu Inu Fruit, it simply acquired its powers by another unknown route.

First, you have to understand that Suspension of Disbelief is not the same for every piece of fiction. Comparing One Piece to Naruto again: Naruto is pretty much the real world plus chakra and Kishimoto tends to shorten the gap between (although he fails miserably in some cases); on the opposite hand, One Piece has major differences in how physics, chemistry and biology work and Oda tends to widen the gap between. The very Grand Line is impossible in a spherical world with our physics, being only theoretically possible in a toroid (donut-shaped) world, which we know the One Piece world isn't, Luffy being the same in his standard stance after stretching himself also is impossible in our biology. Trust me, I'm incredibly picky when it comes to what makes sense or not, but I can understand people getting beaten the shit out of them and still stand because One Piece already placed the high resistance under the umbrella of Suspension of Disbelief, something that Naruto hasn't.

Second, you're confusing plot convenience with Plot no Jutsu. Plot no Jutsu only applies when we know something should not happen and/or is missing a goddamn explanation, while plot convenience (where Plot no Jutsu is a subsection of it) applies when the plot needs to be carried on and an element is added to do so. One Piece does have its PnJ's, but I'll be damned if they even reach the count of 1 per saga, while Naruto has them by the metric ton. Yes, Oda could do with a lot less plot convenience, but at least he wraps it with an healthy dose of humor, while other writers play them straight like its a given.

Third, you don't seem to pay attention to the plot to say Ms All Sunday/Robin saving Luffy is a Plot no Jutsu. She was using Mr 0/Crocodile and decided to betray him for her own profit, how the hell did you miss that?
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