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Old 01-24-2013, 09:22 AM   #57
Numinous
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Re: Naruto_617

Here we go again!

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Originally Posted by thibs View Post
First off. why is this story manga so unbelievable? i mean did a lot of complainers forget this is a make believe story where physics dont apply? i mean for gosh sakes theyre leaping in the air 50 stories high.
Oh boy, why some people don't know the limits of Suspension of Disbelief? I've talked about it so many times so I'll just quote myself:

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There is a thing called Suspension of Disbelief. It's one of the major keys of the Fantasy genre and it's practically saying "We know things in real life aren't like that, but go with it". Thing is, Suspension of Disbelief is only applicable in the greatest barrier between reality and the fantasy, and does not apply in any other issues, even issues that are derived from that barrier.

What is the subject that is addressed by Suspension of Disbelief in Naruto? "Ninjas can do magical stuff with their hands, breath, eyes, etcetera.". And we go with it. But beyond that, Suspension of Disbelief is not applied in anything. That's why we call PnJ (Plot no Jutsu) to things that don't make sense, can't be saved by the Suspension of Disbelief and the only excuse for them is to help the plot. Like Naruto's fart vs Kiba, or the Manda Gambit by Sasuke vs Deidara.

(...) All the things that aren't addressed by the Suspension of Disbelief must follow logic. Like how jutsu are created: they follow the Lavoisier mantra "Nothing is created, nothing is lost, everything is transforming". So to create a jutsu, the nin must mix Physical Energy (gained from training and eating) and Spiritual Energy (gained by meditating and focusing) to create chakra, and that chakra is used to create the jutsu. Or how S/T justu work, since they follow the wormhole hypothesis. And the manga follows logic all the way (except obviously PnJ and the target of Suspension of Disbelief). Even things with heavy doses of fantasy on them, like Edo Tensei or the Six Paths of Pain. Knowing where the Suspension of Disbelief kicks in, they make sense.
Read that and return when you understand why people complain about certain aspects of the manga.

I won't bother with points 2 and 3 because discussing power levels at this point of the manga is almost futile.

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4th...high fives a lil korny ya....but i mean this isnt a 18+ manga with a lot of blood gore and sex...its understandable that this is probly meant for 13-17 year old crowds....so i mean...ya alot of us were that age if not younger when starting this manga....the action and korny stuff like talk no jutsu is meant for the age appropriate crowds....so stop complaining about that stuff....working out problems through talking rather then killing if possible is without a doubt a theme to this series.
Personally, I'm much more concerned about Kurama's chakra being whored out and pretty much nullifying its uniqueness than the method applied, but you just had to employ the tired "it's for kids" arguments. Maybe I'm alone on this stance, but I don't think kids are stupid, so why dumb down things or them?

Sure, things can be simplified to avoid confusing the readers, but now to either not bother to explain stuff (how did Naruto know how to convert Kurama's chakra?), failing at science (Jokey Boy being the worst insult) and making the protagonist employ moralistic speeches with almost no substance or that directly contradict his previous stance (and even worse, making the villain the one who makes any logical sense) is not only non-productive to the mind of the readers, they are hazardous for their comprehension of narrative, characterization and even science.

As a final note on this point, you don't need gore and sex to make anything mature, you only need to address the complexity of the subjects you're employing, something Kishimoto has failed to address with Naruto.

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5th...just an observation but very annoying and maybe i dont care to see whos posting wat every week but i mean....a lot wish for sasukes return...then 3 or 4 weeks into it when kishi reminds u that hes obsessed with revenge that you will just bash on sasuke again....kishi will never win with everyone alllll the time....geeez just be patient and do something with ur lives every week.
And yet another "get a life" jab. Oh gee, aren't you full of arguments already debunked before!

About Sasuke, I'm not a fan of his both because of Sasuketards which were unbearable a couple of years earlier and the fact his progression as a character is disappointing. Instead of focusing on his anti-hero aspect, Kishimoto simply drove him to villainous insanity to sometimes hilarious extremes and then he made the most mind-boggling character regression conceivable when he fought with Itachi just to pick up on a random point of his characterization with Orochimaru and continue from there.

That said, I won't mind Sasuke in an hypothetical mini-arc with this scroll if he keeps his head on his shoulders or his characterization makes sense from the point he's in now. If he starts chewing the scenery like he was in the Kage Summit/early War or acts like a dunce like in the Izanami fight I'll definitely call upon that.

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and last but most important. i know a lot of the complainers week in and week out have invested a lot of years in manga....but come on to those that have to post hate....i mean why do u even bother reading it every week...
Because we can and want and don't really hate the manga, but rather be disappointed by it considering its much higher quality in Part I?

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seems like u all can write a better manga. so please do so so we can all complain especially kishi when u start to write something for 10 years and come out with some outlandish creation..
I'm writing original fiction on the fanfiction thread. Here are the links of the 3 chapters I've released so far:

Chapter 0: First post, Second, Third.
Chapter 1: First post, Second, Third.
Chapter 2: First post, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth.

Feel free to comment. At least I'm not naive enough to employ the "well if you think it's bad why don't you do it better" argument that Roger Ebert would wipe his ass with.

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..why not just wait till its complete then read the rest that u missed if u have to know wat happens and then never pick it up again...
Who tells you some people don't do that already, at least on a monthly basis? And, trust me, if people really hated the manga, they'd drop it altogether. People actually like it enough to be willing of passing excruciating weeks of mediocrity to see if something good happens and gives hope the manga picks up the quality it had before.

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its like a soap opera everytime on forums to see u all say this is garbage this cant happen. its so unbearable to read yet i read it anyways.......i dont get it....ur reading manga for crying out load its suppose to be unbelievable ninjas jumping from tree to tree. having powers of elements...
Read the bit of suspension of disbelief above. Also, consistency and coherency are vital in any work of fiction, even fantasy.

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kishi has been writing this story for many years and had a basic layout of how he wanted to write this....but its not like he knew every chapters layout from the start. so the inconsistencies are obviously gunna be there...
There's a thing called a computer. It has little nifty software that can be used to keep track of what you're doing in your writing and do some research on subjects you're not entirely sure of. Even a notebook can be used to achieve the first effect and we know mangakas use them because we've seen pictures of their desks and, for example, Oda has a notebook with the next arc of his manga and some past arcs. I doubt it's hard for Kishimoto to do the same, so these inconsistencies can be there because he's human and humans err, but shouldn't be if he was keeping proper track of his writing.
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basically to those that complain and realllllly seem mad about the whole manga...rethink wat ur doing...can u drop this manga cuz ur so angry at the story?
I don't know about other, but I'm not mad at the whole manga. I'm simply irked by many of its developments in Part II, specially as of late. That said, I had to give up on the manga for a whole month after Obito's flashback because Kishimoto made one of his worst decisions for a plot twist and when he had the opportunity to make sense out of it, he simply refused and even made Obito a worst character than what he already was. But, as you can see, I'm back because I have some hope Kishimoto still will make sense out of it, although it's fading due to the writing of these few last chapters.

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can u just wait till its all written thennn read it to end the story? so many options for you rather then read it and be miserable cuz u have to wait every week to read this....
... and we read other stuff and some of us even write, so your point is completely moot.
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Last edited by Numinous; 01-24-2013 at 09:24 AM.
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