Originally Posted by jekyl_hyde
Your implication was that the gun jamming was a coincidence. I've known several people that have been shot at, and every time the bullet missed (or hit, but wasn't a fatal hit) did not think it a coincidence.
I find it funny that you stated the conclusion, based on what the Bible says: no God, laughable and showing of your ignorance. I don't claim to know in details the belief of other religions, other than what I do know, have read myself, or have had explained to me by believers of those faiths. Do not claim to have read the Bible, and then say that there is conclusive evidence that because bad things happen to people (both good and bad), there is no God. You want to draw that conclusion from your own derivations, that's fine. But to say that the actual doctrine of a religion poses no foundation for that belief system is asinine and stupid at best. And I'm not talking about self-made religions. I'm talking about those that have stood the test of time (so to speak): Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, hell even Marxism (going the politically religious route), all have doctrines that do not contradict the foundation of God(s) or the belief system they establish.
The reason Num hasn't brought up the justice part with me, is because he and I have had this discussion before, and he knows my viewpoint about it (unless he's forgotten it), and that is justice does happen. If it does not happen in this lifetime, it will in the next. There's a single book that does a pretty good job of summing this up for believers, the book of Revelation.
Holy giggles Batman... MrBig is spot on about the concept of free will.
I've known several people who have been shot and killed, several who have been shot at and didn't get shot, and several who have survived multiple gunshot wounds. Just because you know a few people who were lucky doesn't mean anything. You say that as if just because you know them and they didn't get hit by the bullets, somehow God was protecting them. What about all the other people over the world who don't get shot and those who do? What does the few people you know change about them not getting shot being a coincidence? Sometimes shit happens and sometimes it doesn't, especially when you're talking about shooting at people from whatever the distance may be, under whatever the conditions may be:drive-by, point blank, six shots, twelve shots, semi-auto, auto. People miss their targets all the time. There is nothing supernatural about it.
My conclusion was based off all the fairy-tale stories that the bible tells you about praying and God answering being bullshit, thus their stories of God are the same. I never claimed to have read the bible and found any conclusive evidence. My bad if I made it seem that way. I haven't read much of the bible since I was a child in Sunday school. I was simply stating the common-sense conclusion I reached, which is pretty conclusive itself though if I do say so myself.
I never said the doctrine of religion poses no foundations for that belief system. That's twice you seem to have accused me of something that I never even implied.
You cannot say that justice happens in the afterlife because you do not know. What we do know is that immoral men and women have been living like presidents, kings, queens, and dictators since as long as history goes back. Many immoral people have lived and died great lives, becoming rich and powerful off the sweat of their slaves. So we know that you can live an immoral life and still die a happy person. We don't know what happens after that, and that's a fact.
I was never speaking about free will. Free will doesn't determine whether or not you die in a car accident or from a gunshot to the face or in the hospital, praying every day that God makes you better again. My point is not, "If there is a God, he would step in." My point is that the God of which many different religions preach is contradicted by the same bible and beliefs that are said to come from him and the masses of people who claim to be of those religions and follow him, and he does not step in because he does not exist. Pray to him for something that is possible to happen whether or not you might pray, and your prayers may or may not be answered. Pray for something that never happens, like a brain-dead man who was hit by a drunk driver and is now severely mentally handicapped, paralyzed, an unable to ever care for himself again to be able to regain all brain functions and have his crushed spine healed again so he can dance on Dancing With The Stars someday, which was his dream, and your prayers will not be answered. People who claim that they were saved by miracles were saved by the same circumstances and luck as the next guy, who may or may not be an immoral son of a bitch. My
conclusion: No God.