Originally Posted by KyoichiKanami
Okay. Thanks for responding, as I had hoped you weren't the type to post theories and never build on them.
1 - Well yes, but that's never truly a safe way to go unless more than one character notes their similarities. If we based all characters connections on appearance, Ukitake and Byakuya would be father and son, and Grim Jaw and Hitsugaya would be brothers :/
2 - Yes, but keep in mind that it seems the Shiba as a whole were rather rough and unorderly. I'm failry certain marrying someone from your own squad is as bad as marrying someone from Rukongai. I guess it is safe to assume that Byakuya was fairly compassionate before Hisana died, and we can time those events to long before we are introduced to Rukia and Kaien. So, I can assume that as two heads of a noble family, they would naturally clash about the marriages. I assume that Hisana died before Kaien married his wife, whose name escapes me, but it's safe to assume from the facts stated that they would clash.
3 - One thing I didn't consder but seems important is that Uruhara gave Rukia that gigai. This means that he quite possibly could have given Isshin one as well. I mean, no one sensed him, and Uruhara's gigai apparently kill the spirit force of a person. However, because his son was in danger, Isshih's thus forth hidden spirit force probably would have exploded in order to protect Ichigo.
4 - Well, it's possible, but as I said, they very well could be a completely seperate Noble Family, if that at all. It's true that he would have been known, but at the same time, it could have been from so long ago, that they were forgotten. My personal belief is that Isshin was some relative of Kaien himself (possibly father) who fled Soul Society (possibly with Uruhara and Yoruichi) and started a family here. And that somehow makes Kaien and Ichigo cousins or brothers or something. But that's just me. Anyway, it seems you're saying that because they had spiritual powers, they could be connected to any other family in Soul Society. However, I strongly believe that can be attributed to Isshin being a Shinigami. When he and Masaki did the bump, and Karin, Yuzu, and Ichigo were born, they all are, technically, half shinigami. Ichigo, being the oldest, must have coaught most of the spiritual power on his way out, and hid it away subconsciously. Pretty much all of your topics are speculation parts rathern than facts, but the way you've pointed them out really makes me wanna think about all this.
lol back to long replies...and thanks for replying, I really am bursting to get my theory out to someone because I can't discuss it with my friends who are all purely anime watchers not manga readers lol, so thanks for making it interesing.
1- What I understood from your point is that we need more than one character in the anime to actually point out the fact that Ichigo and Kaien are similar. In this anime there are 2 who directly said it, and one who indicated it. First of all, Byakuya, when he fought Ichigo for the very first time in Ichigo's world. He was surprised that Rukia would "run to this child" and then he looks at him and says : "I understand Rukia, now I see. He DOES have a remarkable resemblence to him..." Ok true they never said who, but its VERY VERY obvious we are talking about Kaien because immediately after it they show Rukia feeling ashamed and sad. This just goes to show that she is remebering the person she used to admire so much which they showed us as Kaien. I don't really think its a deniable thing who they were talking about. So Byakuya clearly pointed it out and Rukia suggested it. The other person is Utikate. The time in the bridge when Hanatarou and Ganju rescued Rukia, Utikate appears and stops byakuya from killing anyone, and then Ichigo comes and Utikate feels the strong spiritual power and looks at him and sees him and is shocked, and Byakuya looks at him and tells him "Its not who you think it is." Since Utikate was Kaien's captain, he was probably the most shocked one. And this chapter is chapter 117 and sadly, its either translated wrong or the anime was translated wrong or they changed it in the anime, because although its not what he said in the manga it is in the anime. (ill check the eps later) So more than one characted did in fact show that there is a similarity.
3- I get what ur saying in this point, but thats just for telling us why byakuya didn't like the shiba family, but it doesn't explain why he keeps remebering Kaien when he talks to Ichigo...
4- Also here, yes its obviously coming from Isshin (the shinigami bloodline or wtv..sorry too much naruto) anyway, im just trying to say that although its Isshin responsible for passing down shinigami abilities to the kids its POSSIBLE now to say that this family was in fact related to another spiritual family. Im not saying they are or have to be but its 10 times more possible now since we found out that the father was a shinigami. also note another small, maybe insignificant, similarity in the 2 families...the eldest one is the only one who was able to become a shinigami while the other 2 in each family DO have spiritual powers but not shinigamis. Im not 100% sure of this but Kuukaku and Ganju are just spiritual with their own abilities, but not actual death gods, like Yuzu and Karin who COULD be like them if they were living in the other world.
But in the end, u do actually agree that they are related which comes out to be the whole point lol. Maybe we have different reasons for thinking it, but we think that Ichigo and Kaien are related somehow.
Originally Posted by kidistight
Regarding point number 2 it is on page 10 of chapter 167 it doesn't say anything it just shows Ichigo saying he would fight the law and then a flashback of Kaien. Unfortunately in the one flashback we did get of Kaien he didn't seem like the type of person to go against laws, he often led the squad when the captain was sick or did any other duties that the captain was unable to do. As of right now in the anime we have no reason to believe that Kaien was disobedient or that he went against SS. This is also going to cause a problem in regards to translation I just looked online regarding the manga: http://groups.msn.com/-bleach-/bleac...oto&PhotoID=33
and the translation is different.
omg....it IS different! wow that completely changes the idea. which one is right do u think? I got my version from the bleachportal or bleach7 website...For some reason the one I read made more sense to me, but u never know lol