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Old 11-14-2011, 01:00 PM   #1
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Death Penalty

So the debates section seems pretty dead.

I really could argue for both sides on this one.

Anybody for or against it?
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:29 PM   #2
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Re: Death Penalty

I'm all for it, as long as the crime warrants it, and overwhelming evidence is used to convict the guy. We have way to many people locked up for crimes they didn't do, that have only recently been acquitted due to DNA evidence. Taking a persons life via death penalty is serious business, and I think cases that end in death convictions should be re-investigated by some 3rd party law enforcement agency just prior to the sentence being carried out, instead of the "review" system currently in place that just double checks the old case info and doesn't even attempt to bring any new evidence the table.

As for whether or not it's morally objectionable to kill a guy, I'd have to go with not. I'm all for the Hammurabi code of an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, and a life for a life. We need more of that, instead of putting some mass murdering bastard behind bars for life, sponging off tax payer dollars. But that's just me. Mmm, dinnertime. I'll write more later.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:51 PM   #3
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Re: Death Penalty

I'll go ahead and tell you I'm completely for it, but for the sake of the argument.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
I'm all for it, as long as the crime warrants it, and overwhelming evidence is used to convict the guy.
So who decides if the crime warrants it? The same people who decide if he's guilty? We've sent innocents to jail before. You can't just give somebody Life when you take it.

Quote:
We have way to many people locked up for crimes they didn't do, that have only recently been acquitted due to DNA evidence.
Showing that our system is flawed, and with the death penalty in place, we still have the possibility of killing an innocent man.

Quote:
Taking a persons life via death penalty is serious business
I couldn't agree more.

Quote:
and I think cases that end in death convictions should be re-investigated by some 3rd party law enforcement agency just prior to the sentence being carried out,
I don't really get what you mean by third party. Like a federal group? Or an outside group that we grant the authority?

Quote:
instead of the "review" system currently in place that just double checks the old case info and doesn't even attempt to bring any new evidence the table.
That's the point of an appeal. If you have a halfway decent lawyer then there isn't any reason for no new evidence to be brought up. It still may not outweigh the evidence stacked against him though.

Quote:
As for whether or not it's morally objectionable to kill a guy, I'd have to go with not. I'm all for the Hammurabi code of an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, and a life for a life. We need more of that
Well if it's not morally correct to kill a guy, then why is ok for our government to do so?

Quote:
instead of putting some mass murdering bastard behind bars for life, sponging off tax payer dollars.
So you prefer to kill him and let him take the easy way out? It would be way more satisfying to have that dude rotting in a jail cell for the rest of his life, miserable until the day he dies. Why should money play a role in this at all? Can a persons life be bought and payed for? No. That would be putting money>life. Which do you think is more important?




Quote:
Originally Posted by J-man123 View Post
It depends on each individual case but I am for the death penalty, why should the tax payer pay for a child rapist to be in jail for the rest of his life if u ask me that seems pretty good for me three meals a day a roof over my head and if he don't wanna be killed just needs to get him self in to solitary they also have access to literature and in some cases even get a tv however there has to be 100% proof he or she did it also if he has absaloutley no remorse but if they mend there ways then a triple life sentence is enough
By the way typing from my iPhone may be mistakes
If you think jail is just 3 hots and a cot you haven't ever been. It's no party. It's fucked up and it sucks, It's a horrible miserable way to live, and to have someone know they'll never see the outside of those walls, and have them rot away day by day til the life literally leaves them, or they get shanked. Obviously anal raping occurs. Do you really think that laying somebody to rest, and giving them the easy way out is punishment enough? I've said before too, there isn't always 100% guilty people based off of evidence. Does that mean we should only send SOME murderers or rapists to death?
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:49 AM   #4
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Re: Death Penalty

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxMESTxx View Post
I'll go ahead and tell you I'm completely for it, but for the sake of the argument.
Devils advocate eh? OK, I'll play along.


Quote:
So who decides if the crime warrants it?
That's should be obvious. If the crime involves the willful and deliberate taking of life, then that deserves the death penalty. Murder in general warrants this, except in certain cases where it was caused through negligence.

Quote:
Showing that our system is flawed, and with the death penalty in place, we still have the possibility of killing an innocent man.
There's always that possibility, an in truth there's no way to be 100% sure of a persons guilt. However their are ways of minimizing the risk. SEE BELOW.



Quote:
I don't really get what you mean by third party. Like a federal group?
Correct. Most innocent people that get convicted, are due to shitty investigations by local or state police. While it isn't as likely to happen today, their are a multitude of cases in the past where a crime was "pinned on the black guy". Racist local cops exist. Or at least shitty deadbeat cops exist. Should a murder case that might involve the death sentence really be put in the hands of some small town sheriff department, that might not have the resources to investigate properly, and has the potential risk to bring local politics into the situation. After all, the sheriff wants to be reelected for his next term, and convicting a popular guy in town or maybe his own supporter doesn't help him. It far better to have somebody that isn't biased in the case and has nothing to gain or lose, to do the investigation.

Quote:
That's the point of an appeal. If you have a halfway decent lawyer then there isn't any reason for no new evidence to be brought up. It still may not outweigh the evidence stacked against him though.
The appeal process doesn't actively seek to find new evidence. Only way that's going to happen is if you pay a private investigator to look into it for you, and that's takes money. If you're some poor dude locked up in jail, you have no money and no way of making any. Is it really fair that someone who has that money can afford to investigate, while the poor guy can't. Everybody deserves equal rights under the law. Whether or not you can afford to prove your innocence shouldn't be a matter of economic prosperity, but a right that's granted to you. That's means that law enforcement should actively reopen the cases of death row inmates as a public service to those inmates for the sake of justice.

Quote:
Well if it's not morally correct to kill a guy, then why is ok for our government to do so?
The punishment must fit the crime. It's just that simple. Executions not only punish that individual people, but help prevent future crimes. Knowing that your state has no problems killing you, should have a significant effect on your choice to kill someone. So if one death can prevent future deaths, I see that as morally acceptable.
Quote:
So you prefer to kill him and let him take the easy way out? It would be way more satisfying to have that dude rotting in a jail cell for the rest of his life, miserable until the day he dies. Why should money play a role in this at all? Can a persons life be bought and payed for? No. That would be putting money>life. Which do you think is more important?
There's nothing easy about death. Most people value their own lives. I know I'll fight tooth and nail to stay alive. So the notion that death is an easy way out is absolutely absurd.

As for money playing a role in it, yeah it does. On average it's cost over $25,000 a year to house an inmate, and their are over 3,200 people on death row. Do the math. That's over 80 million dollars that could be spent on more important things......like crime prevention programs.
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:53 PM   #5
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Re: Death Penalty

Quote:
Originally Posted by ask me anything View Post
Devils advocate eh? OK, I'll play along.
Yeah, why not.

Quote:
That's should be obvious. If the crime involves the willful and deliberate taking of life, then that deserves the death penalty. Murder in general warrants this, except in certain cases where it was caused through negligence.
So who decides if your negligence was extreme enough to warrant death? That particular judge or jury you end up with?

Quote:
There's always that possibility, an in truth there's no way to be 100% sure of a persons guilt. However their are ways of minimizing the risk. SEE BELOW.
Not without the death penalty.

Quote:
Correct. Most innocent people that get convicted, are due to shitty investigations by local or state police. While it isn't as likely to happen today, their are a multitude of cases in the past where a crime was "pinned on the black guy". Racist local cops exist. Or at least shitty deadbeat cops exist.
So you know that innocent people are found guilty, and your ok with possibly murdering an innocent man? Especially if a good man died because of a deadbeat cop.


Quote:
Should a murder case that might involve the death sentence really be put in the hands of some small town sheriff department, that might not have the resources to investigate properly
Sorry, If I was about to be put to death, that sheriff could kiss my ass, lawyers are your friend in any legal situation.

Quote:
and has the potential risk to bring local politics into the situation. After all, the sheriff wants to be reelected for his next term, and convicting a popular guy in town or maybe his own supporter doesn't help him. It far better to have somebody that isn't biased in the case and has nothing to gain or lose, to do the investigation.
Right, because the sheriff would like to risk almost everything for the vote of this one potential murderer, when he could catch the supposed criminal, and gain support from the entire area. If local politics are brought in, it increases the chance of sending and innocent man to death, and letting a guilty man walk.

Quote:
The appeal process doesn't actively seek to find new evidence.
Huh? Considering the appeal is a matter of life and death, the defendant and the lawyer are doing everything they can.


Quote:
Only way that's going to happen is if you pay a private investigator to look into it for you, and that's takes money. If you're some poor dude locked up in jail, you have no money and no way of making any. Is it really fair that someone who has that money can afford to investigate, while the poor guy can't. Everybody deserves equal rights under the law. Whether or not you can afford to prove your innocence shouldn't be a matter of economic prosperity, but a right that's granted to you. That's means that law enforcement should actively reopen the cases of death row inmates as a public service to those inmates for the sake of justice.
Isn't that what you're paying the multitude of lawyers for? I agree it's not right. Money is power now-a-days. Our legal system doesn't just work off of justice and peoples rights. Death row inmates have plenty opportunity to reopen them themselves.

Quote:
The punishment must fit the crime.
Because it's totally ok and non-hypocritical for the government to tell you it's not ok to kill, by killing you.

Quote:
It's just that simple. Executions not only punish that individual people, but help prevent future crimes.
Executions are barbaric, and serve no real purpose todays world. Vengeance..


Quote:
Knowing that your state has no problems killing you, should have a significant effect on your choice to kill someone.
Nobody in the moment of killing somebody is thinking "shit I could go to jail for this, maybe I should rethink" Instead it's more, "I'm going to fucking kill you!"

Quote:
So if one death can prevent future deaths, I see that as morally acceptable.
Tell me how getting killed by your government is going to prevent future death. That's what laws are for, hell that's what religion is for. We've already got plenty of shit to scare people, it still won't stop happening, so why murder somebody who could be more miserable wasting away in a jail, and let them(imo since I'm Atheist) just get game over, nothing, no guilt no conscience, nothing not black, nothing. That seems a lot easier than living the rest of your days, minutes, seconds, in a shitty ass jail.


Quote:
Most people value their own lives. I know I'll fight tooth and nail to stay alive. So the notion that death is an easy way out is absolutely absurd.
Unless you strongly believe they will end up in hell, and burn for eternity, there is nothing absurd about it.

Quote:
As for money playing a role in it, yeah it does. On average it's cost over $25,000 a year to house an inmate, and their are over 3,200 people on death row. Do the math. That's over 80 million dollars that could be spent on more important things......like crime prevention programs.
On average, it cost an additional $90,000 per inmate sentenced to death. Go ahead and do your $90,000 multiplied by 3,200. Guess which number is bigger. Read this article. It actually cost more to kill somebody than it does to house them in a cage.

Quote:
Death penalty trials are more expensive for several reasons: They often require extra lawyers; there are strict experience requirements for attorneys, leading to lengthy appellate waits while capable counsel is sought for the accused; security costs are higher, as well as costs for processing evidence — DNA testing, for example, is far more expensive than simple blood analyses.
Quote:
After sentencing, prices continue to rise. It costs more to house death row inmates, who are held in segregated sections, in individual cells, with guards delivering everything from daily meals to toilet paper.
In California, home to the nation's biggest death row population at 667, it costs an extra $90,000 per inmate to imprison someone sentenced to death — an additional expense that totals more than $63.3 million annually, according to a 2008 study by the state's Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice.
Quote:
California's slow appeals system produces an average wait of nearly 20 years from conviction to fatal injection — the longest in the nation. Of the nine convicted killers McCartin sent to death row, only one has died. Not by execution, but from a heart attack in custody.

"Every one of my cases is bogged up in the appellate system," said McCartin, who retired in 1993 after 15 years on the bench....

Across the country, the number of prisoners exonerated and released from death row is more than 130. Thousands of appeals are clogging the courts.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...=16v7n47orkyp7


The article I posted above lays it out pretty clear, if you go to it. It's so much more expensive for the state to kill someone rather than to imprison them for life because death penalty trials are lengthy, drawn out, and include great detail, death row prisoners have to be housed in a complete different area than other prisoners, and most men or women on death row file many appeals because it is a matter of life and death.
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:33 PM   #6
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Re: Death Penalty

It depends on each individual case but I am for the death penalty, why should the tax payer pay for a child rapist to be in jail for the rest of his life if u ask me that seems pretty good for me three meals a day a roof over my head and if he don't wanna be killed just needs to get him self in to solitary they also have access to literature and in some cases even get a tv however there has to be 100% proof he or she did it also if he has absaloutley no remorse but if they mend there ways then a triple life sentence is enough
By the way typing from my iPhone may be mistakes
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:18 AM   #7
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Re: Death Penalty

I think it's so interesting. I'm kinda interested... maybe I'll re-read twilight.

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Old 11-18-2011, 05:33 AM   #8
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Re: Death Penalty

^OMG, bots have advanced to the level of 12 year old girls!

P.S. On topic: I'm fine with the death penalty when the alternative is keeping them in prison for the extent of their lives. However theoretically there are better solutions, like shipping em all to an island and just leaving them there, that could be punishment for other sever crimes (ex. mass rapist). I see that solution functioning best if it was an international prison.
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Quotes for noobs (learn how to break up a quote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future
So you can post the second bit and i shouldnt be allowed to if i dont tell you? Why be so rude?

Anyways, here is a quotes for noobs guide


1. A basic quote

[*QUOTE][*/QUOTE]

(the * need to be removed for it to work, I put them in so you can see the text) is a basic quote that just wraps something in a quote without saying who quoted it who quoted so

[*QUOTE]this is a quote[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
this is a quote

Edit: there is a button for this, it looks like a speech bubble. If you select text and then press the button the selected text will automatically be wrapped with the quote tag


2. A quote that says who said it

[*QUOTE=who said it][*/QUOTE] this adds who said the post, manually putting that there can be useful when quoting something external. Example:

[*QUOTE=Mangastream]Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangastream
Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us
3. A quote that says who said it and links to the post where it was said

[*QUOTE=who said it;X][*/QUOTE]

Where X is the post number.

For the post that i originally quoted it would look like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]

That is what you get when you press the quote button.

4. Breaking up a quote

Now that you know how quotes work it all boils down to preference, how you want it to look like and how you want to do it.

One way of doing it is copying the latter part of the original quote [*/QUOTE] and then pasting it after each section you break up, write your reply, choose the text you want then paste it after that portion, repeat till you finish the go back and copy then paste the first part of the text at the beginning of each portion of text. Of course you can immediately copy and paste both parts of a poste so that you dont forget one in the end.

The end result would be something like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4



Which without any * would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4


Another way of doing it would be to cut and paste the second part of the quote tag after the first section of text you want to seperate then write your reply select the second part and hit he quote button (it looks like a text bubble),if you do that without anything else the end result would be

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4

Which would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4

To make it like the previous example (which wpuld be preferred, though not necessary ) copy the part that says who posted with the link to the post and paste it accordingly to the proper part in each first half of each quote tag. In my I would copy =minato uchiha;2118164 and paste it where the # is
[*QUOTE#] to get [*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] (of course with the * removed)


Of course you can use any other method you like to get to the end result, but now that you know what the end rwsult looks like I think there shouldnt be any problems

Last edited by stubborn_d0nkey; 11-18-2011 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:36 AM   #9
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Re: Death Penalty

I like your island idea.

Quote:
I'm fine with the death penalty when the alternative is keeping them in prison for the extent of their lives.
Care to elaborate?
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Old 11-18-2011, 03:20 PM   #10
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Re: Death Penalty

Alot of you guys are speaking on a subject with out doing any research. Im pretty sure that the death penalty is more expensive than a life sentence.

Im against the death penalty, the legal system isnt full proof, a lawyers job is to defend a guilty man knowing of his guilt, an innocent man can be convicted of a crime he did not commit, judges and juries can be bribed. I do not believe this legal system should have the right or is properly equipped to make the judgement to take a mans life, nor do I believe any man has the right to take another mans life.
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:40 PM   #11
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Re: Death Penalty

I deont believe anyone has the right to take away anothers life but some should indeed be put to death.. not sure how thats going to happen tho as seemingly all of the companies that produce the drug required for lethal injection wont sell it for that purpose.

Maybe we could try a form of mental imprisonment like they did in this one episode of the outer limits. the sentence would all be in a persons mind and if they truly repented then they would be taken from under the "genjutsu" for lack of a better term.
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:22 PM   #12
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Re: Death Penalty

@AnimeFan Check out the link I posted, it's pretty informative.

Also, say I was being attacked. Then would I have the right to take my attackers life? The current legal system thinks so(depending).
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