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Old 04-15-2010, 02:22 PM   #1
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Aizen won't be the final villain

I hear allot of people talk of Aizen as a god. The undefeatable foe whose fall won't come until the end of the manga. I personally have to disagree with this assessment of his character based on how the story is progressing.

Aizen is the first real villain introduced into this manga. When you take a look at other mangas for the most part they don't end with the fall of the first major villain. Naruto didn't end with the death or Orochimaru, Yu Yu Hakusho didn't end with the death of Toguro or Sensui, Dragonball Z did not end with the death of Frieza, Rave did not end with the death of Gale Raregroove, & well I hope you'd get the point by now.

If Aizen becomes the final villain he'd be a clearly unoriginal one. At best he'll be nothing but a cheap knockoff of Narako from Inuysha who also gained power from a mystical gem. The difference between Narako & Aizen should be made apparent due to the lack of personal connection to the main character. Narako is closely tied to the sacred jewel, Inuyasha, & Kikyo from the beginning were as Aizen has no such connection to the main character. Ichigo's past is rooted with his father & his reason for being has more to do with why Isshin was sent to earth & less to do with Aizen's initial interest in him.

As we speak Aizen is undergoing his final transformations. His shinigami self is at his limits & he'll soon ascend to a level beyond his own personal limitations. Things like this normally happen when a villain is about to die. Aizen is beginning to understand the will of the Hougyoku & will soon become its servant. The Hougyoku was created by Urahara & he has yet to showup. The fall of Aizen should become more clear once Urahara comes to the battle field.

Kubo has already hinted at 2 more arcs after the end of the espada arc. One of these arcs is supposed to be about Isshin which in some way will relate back to Ichigo. It's my take that the final villain hasn't been introduced yet & if he has it'll actually be Urahara & not Aizen.

I could go on & on but I don't want this post to be to long. So please discuss the fall of Aizen & whether or not he's truly worthy of the title of final villain.
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Old 04-15-2010, 02:51 PM   #2
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Re: Aizen won't be the final villain

Aizen is the final villain just stop already he's not dying and nobodies killing him.. He being at his shinigami limit was already hinted at by him when he first left SS saying he wants to break the barrier... He just basically admitted what we all knew in the SS arc..

I agree however that when he dies the Hokyoku will play a MAJOR role in his death... I wouldn;t be surprised if it kills him when everyone else is to weak, cause it seems this thing has a mind or something like that.


And Im not saying he's not dying because ima a fan right now im being serious i don't see kubo giving us another villain but hey who knows.
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Old 04-15-2010, 03:05 PM   #3
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Re: Aizen won't be the final villain

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Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
I hear allot of people talk of Aizen as a god. The undefeatable foe whose fall won't come until the end of the manga. I personally have to disagree with this assessment of his character based on how the story is progressing.

Aizen is the first real villain introduced into this manga. When you take a look at other mangas for the most part they don't end with the fall of the first major villain. Naruto didn't end with the death or Orochimaru, Yu Yu Hakusho didn't end with the death of Toguro or Sensui, Dragonball Z did not end with the death of Frieza, Rave did not end with the death of Gale Raregroove, & well I hope you'd get the point by now.

If Aizen becomes the final villain he'd be a clearly unoriginal one. At best he'll be nothing but a cheap knockoff of Narako from Inuysha who also gained power from a mystical gem. The difference between Narako & Aizen should be made apparent due to the lack of personal connection to the main character. Narako is closely tied to the sacred jewel, Inuyasha, & Kikyo from the beginning were as Aizen has no such connection to the main character. Ichigo's past is rooted with his father & his reason for being has more to do with why Isshin was sent to earth & less to do with Aizen's initial interest in him.

As we speak Aizen is undergoing his final transformations. His shinigami self is at his limits & he'll soon ascend to a level beyond his own personal limitations. Things like this normally happen when a villain is about to die. Aizen is beginning to understand the will of the Hougyoku & will soon become its servant. The Hougyoku was created by Urahara & he has yet to showup. The fall of Aizen should become more clear once Urahara comes to the battle field.

Kubo has already hinted at 2 more arcs after the end of the espada arc. One of these arcs is supposed to be about Isshin which in some way will relate back to Ichigo. It's my take that the final villain hasn't been introduced yet & if he has it'll actually be Urahara & not Aizen.

I could go on & on but I don't want this post to be to long. So please discuss the fall of Aizen & whether or not he's truly worthy of the title of final villain.
Urahara huh? That would be some twisted shit if he was the final villain.
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Old 04-15-2010, 05:01 PM   #4
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Re: Aizen won't be the final villain

As much as I like Urahara and hate to admit it, I agree that he could very well be a villain if not the final villain.
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Old 04-15-2010, 05:11 PM   #5
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Re: Aizen won't be the final villain

SPOILER
ICHIGO IS THE FINAL VILLIAN



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Old 04-15-2010, 05:46 PM   #6
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Re: Aizen won't be the final villain

Why not any mention on Gin. He has been a total mystery up until now and to just be killed in this arc would be somewhat unexpected as I still think he has a major role to play as of yet.
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:06 AM   #7
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Re: Aizen won't be the final villain

I just wanted to bring a little more light as to why Urahara shows more promise than Aizen in regards to becoming a villain if not the final villain. Recently we see Aizen give hints of interest in Ichigo since he was born. Aizen's initial interest in Ichigo from what we know is that he was born half human half shinigami. This alone doesn't really make Ichigo special because frankly speaking there are two more people in the bleach world that would also have this unique genetic makeup which are Ichigos sisters.

One could make the argument that Aizen sent grand fissure after Ichigo when he was a child which resulted in the death of his mother. If this were the case then why hasn't Aizen made any attempts to capture Ichigos sisters then? If what he originally wanted was this unique hybrid still in a dormant state it wouldn't make sense for Aizen to simply only target Ichigo when his sisters at this point would be allot easier to capture. Based on this I have to assume that Aizen never sent Grand Fissure after Ichigo which would mean Aizen still lacks that personal connection to the main character of this manga.

Now lets take a look at Urahara. Urahara seems to have some sort of personal connection to Isshin. Urahara is the creator of the Hougyoku. Urahara is responsible for severing Ichigos soul chain which allowed Ichigo to tap into his own shinigami powers & eventually lead to Ichigos hollow powers. Urahara is also responsible for putting the Hougyoku inside of Rukia. All of these events or actions in some way find their way back to Ichigo. All of these events or actions give Urahara that personal connection to the main character which is what Aizen lacks as a villain.

Aizen claims that everything in the manga was calculated by him however I have to disagree. It's my assumption that Urahara may in fact be playing Aizen. There really was no need for Urahara to place the Hougyoku inside of Rukia in the first place if he's been able to protect it for 100 years on his own. So why would Urahara do such a thing in the first place? Placing the Hougyoku inside of Rukia was done to lure Aizen out in my opinion which worked. The result of all of this was Aizens true intentions being revealed & his standing in SS turning into that of a criminal. If Aizen was smart he wouldn't actually want his true intentions revealed in such a manor. All of the work Aizen has done over the past 100 years was undone by Aizens apparent obsession with obtaining a power that Urahara himself has created. This benefits Urahara because it not only isolates his competition(Aizen had to exile himself in HM) but it also grants Urahara favor with SS since up until recently he lost their trust.

Urahara the scientist used forbidden science to manipulate souls by use of hollowfication. The results of his experiments can be seen in the Hougyoku as well as Ichigo himself. Thats right Ichigo himself is the result of a forbidden experiment over seen by Urahara.

I personally would love for someone to give me a rational argument as to why Aizen should be considered the final villain besides he's o so uber. I dare anyone on this forum to come up with an argument based on the facts we know that would give Aizen that personal connection to the main hero. What at first glance appears to be the workings of Aizen in truth can also be looked at as the calculated plan of Urahara.
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Old 04-16-2010, 10:54 AM   #8
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Re: Aizen won't be the final villain

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Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
I just wanted to bring a little more light as to why Urahara shows more promise than Aizen in regards to becoming a villain if not the final villain. Recently we see Aizen give hints of interest in Ichigo since he was born. Aizen's initial interest in Ichigo from what we know is that he was born half human half shinigami. This alone doesn't really make Ichigo special because frankly speaking there are two more people in the bleach world that would also have this unique genetic makeup which are Ichigos sisters.

One could make the argument that Aizen sent grand fissure after Ichigo when he was a child which resulted in the death of his mother. If this were the case then why hasn't Aizen made any attempts to capture Ichigos sisters then? If what he originally wanted was this unique hybrid still in a dormant state it wouldn't make sense for Aizen to simply only target Ichigo when his sisters at this point would be allot easier to capture. Based on this I have to assume that Aizen never sent Grand Fissure after Ichigo which would mean Aizen still lacks that personal connection to the main character of this manga.

Now lets take a look at Urahara. Urahara seems to have some sort of personal connection to Isshin. Urahara is the creator of the Hougyoku. Urahara is responsible for severing Ichigos soul chain which allowed Ichigo to tap into his own shinigami powers & eventually lead to Ichigos hollow powers. Urahara is also responsible for putting the Hougyoku inside of Rukia. All of these events or actions in some way find their way back to Ichigo. All of these events or actions give Urahara that personal connection to the main character which is what Aizen lacks as a villain.

Aizen claims that everything in the manga was calculated by him however I have to disagree. It's my assumption that Urahara may in fact be playing Aizen. There really was no need for Urahara to place the Hougyoku inside of Rukia in the first place if he's been able to protect it for 100 years on his own. So why would Urahara do such a thing in the first place? Placing the Hougyoku inside of Rukia was done to lure Aizen out in my opinion which worked. The result of all of this was Aizens true intentions being revealed & his standing in SS turning into that of a criminal. If Aizen was smart he wouldn't actually want his true intentions revealed in such a manor. All of the work Aizen has done over the past 100 years was undone by Aizens apparent obsession with obtaining a power that Urahara himself has created. This benefits Urahara because it not only isolates his competition(Aizen had to exile himself in HM) but it also grants Urahara favor with SS since up until recently he lost their trust.

Urahara the scientist used forbidden science to manipulate souls by use of hollowfication. The results of his experiments can be seen in the Hougyoku as well as Ichigo himself. Thats right Ichigo himself is the result of a forbidden experiment over seen by Urahara.

I personally would love for someone to give me a rational argument as to why Aizen should be considered the final villain besides he's o so uber. I dare anyone on this forum to come up with an argument based on the facts we know that would give Aizen that personal connection to the main hero. What at first glance appears to be the workings of Aizen in truth can also be looked at as the calculated plan of Urahara.
Wow. That would make this manga a little more interesting if this is what is going on though.
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:30 PM   #9
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Re: Aizen won't be the final villain

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Originally Posted by Vengeance View Post
I personally would love for someone to give me a rational argument as to why Aizen should be considered the final villain besides he's o so uber. I dare anyone on this forum to come up with an argument based on the facts we know that would give Aizen that personal connection to the main hero. What at first glance appears to be the workings of Aizen in truth can also be looked at as the calculated plan of Urahara.
AIZEN IS THE FINAL
VILLIAN BECAUSE HES SO UBER
AND HES THE STRONGEST PERSON EVERRRRR

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Old 04-16-2010, 11:22 PM   #10
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Re: Aizen won't be the final villain

very well, i'm bored right now and i'll take your challenge :P

about ichigos sisters, i doubt they are strong enough. look at yuzu, from what we know, she's barely able to see ghosts.

about aizen not having personal ties with ichigo. just wait until the isshin arc. if you read the last few chapters carefully, its for granted that isshin and aizen have some ties in the past, considering the way they talk with each other and why should aizen know of ichigo in the first place? he somehow must have known of isshin and masaki. and i highly doubt he found that in some archive of SS, what with isshin being all about secrecy until now.

about urahara...well he's definitely a bastard sometimes. but if you look at the way the two of them treat their underlings, the chance of urahara being naturally evil sinks down to almost zero. i recently started rereading bleach, so i can recommend a certain chapter for reading on that matter. ch15, last two pages. or look into tbtp, the way he cares for hiyori, whereas most of people would have just wanted to kick her ass for being such a bitch. sorry, i like her but its true.

now look at the way aizen treats everyone below him. especially look at halli, hinamori and tousen. isn't a very respectful way to treat them, is it? just to point out the main difference between urahara and aizen. urahara has a heart, even though he is/was a researcher without morales who created something highly dangerous and even up until today hides some things or manipulates people just like aizen does, he doesnt mean any harm by it, rather he does it to make his plans work. he needs to keep those things secret against an enemy like aizen, who himself is a master at weaving complicated plans and thinking ahead.

that itself is another reason, why urahara as the final villain to me just seems outright ridiculous. urahara is aizens enemy #1, no matter how pumped up yamamoto and shinji are, it always has been urahara behind the curtains working against aizen, ever since that fateful night, when he got f***ed by aizen and exiled. if you consider those events, any chance of urahara turning out as the final villain is turned to ashes.

now look at aizen again. he's a heartless egomaniac, striving only to gain power for himself. he's brilliant, has reiatsu like a monster and has a haxxed shikai, which make him a great villain in my eyes, yes. but in essence he is just a self-obsessed bastard who wants power. discarding everyone he deems useless to his goals.

did urahara ever discard anyone? no. hell, the reason he was exiled was that he tried so hard to save the vaizards in the first place. he could have just walked away and acted innocent. that might have failed, considering aizen saw him and his absolute hypnosis. but urahara didn't hesitate for a second to help them, which is all that matters here.

i can't argue against your point about the "rukia incident" being a plan to uncover aizen's betrayal because it's 100% true and you worded it just perfectly. and yes, he gains back his grounds with ss and thus benefits from it. but honestly, who cares about ss? hadn't rukia turned up there and hadn't he contacted them himself, they would have never found him. and reading recent chapters, it became all too apparent that ss is really not that great. being slaugthered like that and all. what i want to say: someone as strong and as adept at hiding as urahara wouldn't care shit about them.

and even assuming he did, you're reducing his motives to only that and "eliminating his competition". i won't comment on the latter right now, im getting a little tired, sorry. just that the way you look at it is odd, because (at least for me) thats not the way urahara thinks. so then what are his motives? i could say now that he is a good guy, trying to save the world, but that would just be as ridiculous. it might be true a little, as much as the prospect of gaining help from ss. but lets face it, his main motive is only one: revenge. he got raped roally in the ass by aizen and now he wants to return the favor. thats all he has been doing in the last ~110 years. planning to bring the f***er down, for what he did to him, the vaizards and his underling aka hiyori. because of all that, i highly doubt urahara being the final villain. lets move back to aizen being it.

by the way, in your first post you say he's not, just because in other mangas there are other villains. forget naruto etc., this is bleach. that comparison is pure speculation on your part and has no relations to this story. next, you're comparing aizen to naraku, just because in the last few chapters he showed having the hogyoku inside him? effectively reducing aizen to just that. did you forget the ss arc already? all the things he did? without hogyoku? calling him a ripoff even? sorry, i hope you didn't mean that. seriously, aizen is much much more than just "a knockoff who also gained power from a gem." and sorry again, but im not going to exaggerate on how many aspects aizen has, not when it is so obvious that just about anyone here could tell you that. just read the manga again, the chapters where aizen turns up, or if you're lazy reading the recent chapters are more than enough. yes, the chapters where he absolutely pwns everyone except isshin. and not because he just has some stone within. hell, look at the ss arc, he doesn't need hogyoku to pwn. having reiatsu like nothing, appearing here and there, with his illusions as well as shunpo, dashing out kido like crazy...

yes, he wants the hogyoku. he wants it BAD. or rather wanted it. but not to gain power, rather than getting even stronger than he already is, surpassing the limits of his own body. but even without it, he could have done all that he did up until now (except healing himself after that slash of ichigo, or at least not that easily) without the hogyoku. sorry, misspelled. he DID it without the hogyoku. because he is just activating it now!

so you reducing him to the hogyoku, in itself isn't very well thought through, is it?

honestly, no insult to you, but im slowly growing sick of people saying "ichigo is gonna pwn aizen at the end of this arc!!" god, without the haxx he got from his father (which makes sense on one hand, but on the other hand pisses me off), he wouldn't be able to hold a candle against gin. considering the state of mind he is in after that hellish fight against ulqui and his hollow-transformation. or rather the state of mind he should be in...*sigh*
seriously, just the though of aizen dying by ichigos hand in this arc gives me goosebumps. because even though this is shounen, it would make absolutely no sense after showing off ichigos inner breakdown after ulqu. whats more, he doesnt even have the slightest idea how to defeat aizen. yeah, "don't look at his shikai", my ass. that airhead ichigo fighting aizen with closed eyes, storming towards him blindly screaming "i'll kill you!!!". just imagining it has me rolling on the floor.

face it, if and only IF aizen dies in this arc, it's not by ichigos hand. oh, well he might get the final strike, but aizen would have to be crippled beyond nothing before there's any chance of that happening. no, the only candidates for killing aizen are either urahara or...gin backstabbing him. well, maybe unohana or isshin, too. everyone else is just not strong enough to face aizen and survive. i know, i sound like a fanboy by now, but i'm merely stating facts that the manga has established upon us. aizen IS strong. period. and someone strong can only be taken down by someone equal or someone weaker abusing something to take him down.

oh well, im getting off topic. back to the villain stuff. on that account, up until two weeks ago i would have considered gin a candidate for last villain. but now i want to watch how his fight ends. you just made me remember something i wanted to mention somewhere. gonna make a thread about it after this, i guess, because taking it here would take this thread offtopic even more.

so why should aizen be the final villain? because he's so uber! no, just kidding
but only half kidding though, because he IS. he also has, or might have your precious ties to the main protagonist. thats just speculation though, until its confirmed, but the chances of aizen featuring a role in the isshin flashback are pretty high.
and last but not least, i can't see a villain dying before achieving his goals. and he said he wanted to bring down the soul king and take his throne. yes, he has become godly with the hogyoku and you might say thats a sign of him dying soon. but you're wrong, because even so he still didn't achieve his goal. unless it was all a lie again and he wanted something else, that is gonna happen now or in the near future.

so yeah, i think aizen is the final villain. and on the little chance he isn't, it would be gin or someone else, but not urahara.

p.s.: i might sound insulting sometimes, but i don't mean it personally. its just the way i talk. forgive me
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Old 04-17-2010, 12:37 AM   #11
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Re: Aizen won't be the final villain

This topic reminds me of something. When I started reading Bleach, the first time I saw Urahara I was like "Wow he looks like a bad guy. It's nice that he's on our side."

Weird yes but something about him made me think like that. But after the TBTP arc, I think he's a good guy.

But yes Aizen cannot be the final villain. He has exhausted every single thing he can do as of now and now he has integrated the Hogyouku inside him which I feel is something like a last resort sort of thing. Seriously, Kubo cannot hope to continue the story based on Aizen and the Hogyouku till the end. Without Aizen it would be somewhat OKAY but it feels like a cheap imitation of what happened in Inuyasha.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:24 PM   #12
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Re: Aizen won't be the final villain

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This topic reminds me of something. When I started reading Bleach, the first time I saw Urahara I was like "Wow he looks like a bad guy. It's nice that he's on our side."

Weird yes but something about him made me think like that. But after the TBTP arc, I think he's a good guy.
I guess its because one or both of his eyes are always hidden under the dark shadow of his hat and some of his looks are somewhat...creepy. ^^

another candidate for final villain i somehow forgot about before: ogichi. hes definitely evil, and seeing him taking control of ichigo and going on a rampage is a nice szenario, isn't it?
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Old 04-17-2010, 01:30 AM   #13
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Re: Aizen won't be the final villain

We all know the final villain will be Madara...
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Old 04-17-2010, 08:00 AM   #14
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Re: Aizen won't be the final villain

I actually find it interesting that Aizen said he's at his Shinigami limit and yet we ain't even seen his Bankai, how can this be?? Did he ever achieve it?? Were the powers of his Shikai so much that he never needed it?? And why in hell haven't any of the bloody older Captains or ex Captains revealed their Bankais??

Maybe it is all an illusion and Gin is the real Villian after all!!

Though the Urahara theory...interesting!! I always did wonder why he risked so much with Ichigo's initial training, is there something about Ichigo and his Hollow that's special??
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:50 PM   #15
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Re: Aizen won't be the final villain

HELL IF URAHARA WAS THE ACTUAL FINAL VILLAIN LIKE SOME PEOPLE ARE SAYING OR RUMORING ABOUT

I MIGHT HAVE TO TURN TO THE DARK SIDE
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