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Old 12-18-2010, 08:49 PM   #1
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Kabuto's 6th Casket, The Elder Brother, and Tobi's Identity

Hi I'm new here and have never posted in forums talking about anime/manga so this is quite new for me. It's just that something has been nagging me for a while and I want to share my thoughts here.

These are my two thoughts:
1. The first thought of mine isn't really the more important of the two. Because of this, I'll just post a link to an article that discussed this at length.
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=611649
In short, I believe that Tobi=Shisui and Madara being in the casket is quite a strong theory.Unlike the person in the article, however, I do not claim that this is 100%, but I do feel that this is worth discussing. I also still feel that Madara=Tobi is the stronger of the two propositions.

2. Assuming the default position that Tobi=Madara, this leads me to the second idea. It is of my belief that the person in the 6th Casket of Kabuto's Edo Tensei is none other than the legendary Elder Brother. To clarify just in case, I am talking about the elder son of Rikudou Sennin(Rikudo Sage)

Why do you think this is so?
Uchiha Madara is one of the most strongest persons in the shinobi world. For him to not kill Kabuto right away meant that the person in the 6th Casket must have been very powerful. Probably not powerful enough to kill Madara, but enough to make him think twice. This fits the profile of the Elder Brother nearly completely; although not as powerful as Rikudou Sage, he was the direct son.

But Madara used the term "it" to describe the person in the sixth casket. Why would he show such disrespect? Didn't the Elder Brother and Uchiha Madara follow the same idelogy? And why can it not be the Younger Brother?
Madara appears to be quite egotistical, especially when he is dealing with other people who are "failures". True, they both follow the same ideology - that power, not love, would bring peace. However, as can be seen from from the story so far, the Elder Brother ultimately failed. Furthermore, I would like to point out to an interesting fact: being a Uchiha does not immediately bring respect from Madara. Madara did not respect the Uchihas of "his time" (i.e. he was "betrayed" by the Uchihas); he did not respect the Uchihas passed "his time" (i.e. the Uchiha Massacre); therefore, him not respecting the ancestors of the Uchihas before "his time" brings a sort of strange completion to his hatred.

Again, why can it not be the Younger Brother though?
To me, it just seems like Kishimoto follows a certain theme present in a lot of fiction and epic fiction: a good person's tomb and body are never desecrated by evil villains (though they can be by good people like in Full Metal Alchemists). Examples included Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and Star Wars. Dumbledore tomb might have been broken into, but only his wand was stolen from him. For some reason, Voldemort did not blow Dumbledore up when he had the chance. In Star Wars, Obi Wan's body disappeared so that it could not be subjected to abuse. The same with Yoda. Meanwhile, Emperor Palpatine, the villain, was throne down some shaft.

But didn't Hashirama and Tobirama got summoned? And Itachi?
Yes, both Hashirama and Tobirama were brought back against their will by Orochimaru. However, if I'm not mistaken, Orochimaru did not receive their genes by digging up their graves. The same with Kabuto reviving up Itachi and the rest (except 6th Casket, of course). The thing with Kabuto and Orochimaru is that they only revive people who died a relatively short time ago. This means that they don't necessarily have to dig anything up. The Younger and the Elder Brothers, on the other hand, is a different case. They died a very long time ago and the only way to find their DNA was at their graves. And if Kishi was to follow a certain theme, then it is more likely that the Elder Brother's tomb was one that was relatively easy to find and desecrated during Kabuto's search for DNA.

Very well then. Do you have any other evidence?
Yes, though I was hesitant to use this at first, since it can be used to justify a lot of things. My last evidence is the coolness factor itself. It has been hinted that there might be an ultimate Senju vs Uchiha battle. The manga might soon be coming to an end, which means that now is the time for Sasuke to meet up with the Elder Brother. This is also another reason why I don't think the Younger Brother is in the casket, since it's Naruto that would have to learn from the Younger Brother, and preferably through good and pure means.
Finally, there's also this theme that Naruto can change people's wicked ways of life. Some people have been bringing up an interesting observation that Edo Tensei can be undone if the revived have no more worries about living world. The story would be cool if Naruto was the one to put the legendary Elder Brother to sleep.
..........................
Anyways, what do you guys think? If you have any genuine refutations, then please post it. Receiving refutations is the reason why I posted here in the first place.

Thank you

Last edited by TheAznValedictorian; 12-18-2010 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:18 PM   #2
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Re: Kabuto's 6th Casket, The Elder Brother, and Tobi's Identity

I would say that it wasn't an easy task finding the elder son(of course an assumption. Not manga fkats......yet. =p) because Kabuto said that some corpses were so rotten that he couldn't even recognize them and since the elder son died hella long ago, he would probably need to go through trial and error............a lot.(pretty sure they don't preserve bodies) Also in this recent chapter, I have reason to believe that he could be summoning the RS since he's on the "I wanna b RS" train. I think he has the RS' DNA or knows about his whereabouts due to that statement(My interpretation, doesn't have to be right.) though I believe it's the RS, I won't disregard your good theory. Also welcome to the forums.

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Old 12-19-2010, 03:30 AM   #3
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Re: Kabuto's 6th Casket, The Elder Brother, and Tobi's Identity

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though I believe it's the RS, I won't disregard your good theory. Also welcome to the forums.
Thank you. Nice to meet you too.
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:43 PM   #4
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Re: Kabuto's 6th Casket, The Elder Brother, and Tobi's Identity

if tobi=shisui why would he speak of himself in third person(when he tried to take the eye back from the dead danzo corpse)...
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:09 PM   #5
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Re: Kabuto's 6th Casket, The Elder Brother, and Tobi's Identity

I dont know what to think about the true Identity of Tobi anymore. The problem is no matter how much evidence there is that tobi is person or another, kishi can just make him someone else just to piss on every Tobi= theory ever made lol...
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:15 PM   #6
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Re: Kabuto's 6th Casket, The Elder Brother, and Tobi's Identity

the shisui=tobi theory is good.

that could also mean, itachi didn't really kill shisui but he saw him commit suicide or something that would trigger the awakening of his MS. the suicide letter could be authentic and it's shisui's way of defecting from konoha.

shisui could be closely related to madara. he could be a son or a grandson, if he really is tobi. he knows a lot about madara. and he is nut crazy about madaras power.

this is just an indulgence of overthinking the theory...
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Old 12-18-2010, 11:39 PM   #7
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Re: Kabuto's 6th Casket, The Elder Brother, and Tobi's Identity

One thing about the "Tobi=Shisui" theory. We saw Tobi fight Minato years before the massacre, and before Shisui died. He was adult size and everything, even looked like the Madara of today. Tobi is NOT Shisui because Shisui would be too young to have fought Minato and lived. Not to mention that Danzo had his right eye and right arm, and we constantly see Tobi's right eye before he gained the Rinnegan and new mask.
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Old 12-19-2010, 12:20 AM   #8
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Re: Kabuto's 6th Casket, The Elder Brother, and Tobi's Identity

if shisui is itachi's senior. there's this possibilty that he is in his teens during the 4th's time.

shisui could have found madara's corpse and stuck it into his own eye socket, thus giving him unique sharingan powers even without gaining MS or EMS.

it was also mentioned that the tech used on the bloody mist kage was the same with the one used by danzo.

the only problems then would be how danzo gained shisui's parts and why did the tobi that fought 4th hokage already have gooey limbs.

if we find how this happened, then there could be a chance tobi=shisui. it's farfetched but there's still a possibilty.
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Old 12-19-2010, 04:18 AM   #9
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Re: Kabuto's 6th Casket, The Elder Brother, and Tobi's Identity

good theory but does anyone else think that tobi can be a edo tensei summon gone wrong?
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Old 12-19-2010, 05:02 AM   #10
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Re: Kabuto's 6th Casket, The Elder Brother, and Tobi's Identity

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good theory but does anyone else think that tobi can be a edo tensei summon gone wrong?
I don't think so, there isn't any evidence to point that way, except for the fact he claims to be the "immortal Madara" and Madara is supposed to be dead by now (or 100 years old). Edo summons regenerate very quickly when dmgd and Tobi doesn't.

On Tobi = Shisui theory, the thing that seems implausible to me is that Shisui would have the mangekyo sharingan when he attacked Konoha and then hide it for 5 years and live in Konoha before striking again. He would also have to be older than Itachi by at least 7 years (to look the way he did vs Minato). Finally when Tobi was alone trying to take Shisuis eye he talked about Shisui in third person, instead of saying "my eye" he said "Shisuis eye".
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Old 12-19-2010, 07:32 PM   #11
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Re: Kabuto's 6th Casket, The Elder Brother, and Tobi's Identity

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good theory but does anyone else think that tobi can be a edo tensei summon gone wrong?
Ive actually been thinking about this for awhile now. Ever since tobi said to danzou that he hasent seen him since the uchiha incident ive been thinking that tobi was some tensei experiment done by danzou and orochimaru for some reason or another. Probably to learn more about the secrets of the sharigan, which was probably the ulterior motive for the uchiha massacre. I bet Danzou was the one who showed orochimaru the basics of edo tensai because he knew orochimaru had the skill and talent to use it effectivly.

But honestly, who the fuck really knows. tobi could end up being sakuras mom for all we know
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Old 12-19-2010, 08:20 PM   #12
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Re: Kabuto's 6th Casket, The Elder Brother, and Tobi's Identity

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Ive actually been thinking about this for awhile now. Ever since tobi said to danzou that he hasent seen him since the uchiha incident ive been thinking that tobi was some tensei experiment done by danzou and orochimaru for some reason or another.
I thought I remembered reading that being said but wasnt sure. I think that just means that they interacted during that whole massacre. Daanzou came to Itachi, then Itaichi went and "found" Madara. It was what Danzou and Madara both wanted, They were in cahoots already, and after the Uchiha Massacre, Madara and Danzou took what they needed from the Uchiha and they parted ways for good. Danzou probably knew Madara would try to get Shisui's eye someday.

I think that if Danzou thinks he is the real Madara, and may have known that Madara was still alive before anyone, he's likely the real Madara, just not in his original body. He has scars that some say are wrinkles. If it was a Zetsu body or an Edo Tensei then Madara should look perfect, the way he did before he lost to the 1st. I think this is the real Madara.

6th Casket. I said it once before, but I could Imagine the Uzumaki leader being able to seal anyone or anything anywhere as if it was as easy as the 1st Hokage creating trees. They specialized in seals, apparently had metal chain ability, and had strong genetics of the younger son, so their leader during the pre 5 nation ninja clans era should have been the shit. Madara seems to have no fear of physical damage, but those that cannot be killed in this manga are often sealed. Buuji are sealed, Orochu is sealed, and the 1st 2 Hokages are sealed.

The Uzumaki Leader in that picture with the 1st may force Madara to think twice. Minatos only jutsu that had any significant effect on Madara was his seal to break his control over Kyuubi. Kishi hyped Senju and the 1st so much, just to make Naruto related to them only by Uzumaki. Then he gave us a picture of the Senju and Uzumaki clans, closeup on their leaders. I just woudnt be surprised if that was the setup to bring him up later. A great shinobi with Sage DNA that is a master of seals, all should fear him. Most jutsus requires using some kind of seal, and he should be a natural at it.
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Old 12-19-2010, 07:48 AM   #13
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Re: Kabuto's 6th Casket, The Elder Brother, and Tobi's Identity

One thing in this manga is for certain; ANYTHING can happen; either because Kishi fucked something up, or just because he wants to fuck something up. We have seen it before, and I am sure that we will see it again. So my opinion of the Shisui=Tobi theory would have to be - plausible.
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Old 12-19-2010, 07:59 AM   #14
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Re: Kabuto's 6th Casket, The Elder Brother, and Tobi's Identity

Why would Shisui need/have the MS (back then)? Tobi is never seen with an MS.

S/T ninjutsu performed by an Uchiha =/= always MS/EMS doujutsu. The normal Sharingan can bend fucking reality with the help of some DNA, so why not?
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Old 12-20-2010, 10:08 AM   #15
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Re: Kabuto's 6th Casket, The Elder Brother, and Tobi's Identity

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Why would Shisui need/have the MS (back then)? Tobi is never seen with an MS.

S/T ninjutsu performed by an Uchiha =/= always MS/EMS doujutsu. The normal Sharingan can bend fucking reality with the help of some DNA, so why not?
Because his space/time ninjutsu comes from his eye (we can see that when he warps the center of the vortex is in the eye) I made a conclusion that it is his sharingan technique. Since the only ninjutsu (that powerful) that comes from the sharingan is MS (EMS) I made a deduction that Tobi's teleport ability is MS (EMS).
It's not Izanagi since Izanagi works differently (Izanagi sacrifices an eye and Tobi uses his warp ability without losing his eye). The only jutsu that fits the description is MS.

(I will not say I am 100 percent correct coz there is a possibility that there is an unknown sharingan technique that would give Tobi this ability, that is what you were saying, but I would prefer it if Kishi kept it simple.
The one thing that goes in favor of your idea is how hax Tobis sharingan ability is, it is definitely stronger than other MS jutsus because he can go in and out of an entire new dimension. That is more powerful than Susano, Kamui, and Amateratsu imo.)
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Also Kin and Gin as substitute for kyuubi chakra (the greatest amount of chakra in Naruto world) is something Kishi pulled out of his ass. I lost major respect. It would be like near the end of LOTR there happens to be another slightly weaker ring and Sauron is like "that will do". It kind of shits on everything established up to that point. It kind of insults my intelligence.

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