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Old 01-17-2008, 12:01 AM   #226
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

i don't know..... still confused about that....
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:16 AM   #227
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

God does exist whether you believe it or not. things that are unseen does not suppose its not exist. everthing has its creator unless god himself. example like cars...cars cant create itself. human thats creates car. same as we humans, we cant create ourself. we can only produce but not create but still human comes from humans. so the 1st human is created by god and after that we reproduce. things cant self produce/ created itself unless they are created. that's the truth nothing but the truth. i know deep inside everyone of you believe there is god but mostly people will reject god base from what they see not from what they feel in their heart. they only will listen to the fact of science when many things cant be proved by science. if your a thinker. you will know what i am talking make sense. for whom that dont understand. think deeply. and if you all have any questions. i am happily to answer it all.
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:19 AM   #228
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

fool what the hell is wrong with you god does exist like it or not.
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:24 AM   #229
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Hix Da Graduate View Post
fool what the hell is wrong with you god does exist like it or not.

Wow. Way to open your eyes to see what non-Christians have to think. I could say the same to you. What the hell is wrong with you? I'm not Christian, and I believe that God doesn't exist, does this mean I have something wrong with myself?
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:55 AM   #230
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

props @ LonelyNinja
I encourage everyone to take an intro biology course if u have questions on evolution. 3 months on all you want to know about monkeys, bacteria, DNA, mutation and how black people's skin DNA mutated to become lighter as they moved away from the equator and developed the "white" person. I'm sry, I had a flashback on my freshman year in college.

NO ONE CAN PROVE GOD EXIST OR NOT, therefore it wouldn't be the correct ting to do to say God doesn't exist to someone else if you dont have prove. As far as we know, he could be waiting for a specific time... just like the bible says. Also, the adam n eve then dinosaurs walked the earth "MAY" not hold water because how God calculates his time is not the same in Human's time. Basically what im saying is that his "day" might be 1 million years to us. Theoretically, the dinosaurs could have came and went before God decided to create Adam and Eve. Just another thought...
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Old 01-17-2008, 01:42 AM   #231
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Katon707 View Post
facepunch@ Miburo, u totally 180'd on urself their, this debate cant go either way but u agree with sugoi, whome has the same belifs as me?? if we evolution is rubish, explain to me dinosaurs, cavemen?? i spose adam and eve were the first dinosaurs LOL im done with this thread.
No I didn't. Learn to read better. I never said anything about evolution either...

Edit: Know what's not extremely lame and sissy at all? Anonymously leaving negative rep to someone calling them a cock. Whoever did that must be a total badass, that takes a ton of balls after all. Wouldn't you agree, Katon707? ; )

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Originally Posted by DarkAztek View Post
Not quite. We can't figure out anything before the big bang theory. There's nothing BUT speculation there. We just simply don't know and finding out is gunna be one hell of a problem because we'd have to go OUTSIDE of the universe to do so. ...Which would make us god in a sense.
Yeah, that's what I mean. It's all mostly speculation. We just don't know enough yet, and probably never will.
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I know that we are... But things have really splintered since the original post and I was trying to respond to the nonsense in some other things I saw. Plus hell, I'm just here to stir the shit.
Well, the OP was total shit, so that's not a bad thing really. ; )

But word. Good shit.

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Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
Since this was directed towards my post, let me rephrase it then - when you find out which possibility is more probable - the existence of a god or it's non-existence, you can expect of me to make a thread in the Spam named "I am an idiot".
I like you, so I won't hold you too that. : )

You're not thinking in the correct terms. It isn't either 'God exists or he doesn't; so that means it's 50/50.' That'd be like saying 'either I'll get heads five billion times in a row when I flip this coin five billions times or I won't; 50/50.' It doesn't work like that.

God has the same probability of existing as anything that I can make up in my mind so long as I make the definition vague enough so that it can't be disproven. And I mean anything. Would you say pixies and the boogie man have the same exact 50/50 existing/non-existing ratio? How about flying space turtles with machine guns strapped to their backs that speak russian and love bananas? Would you say that I'd be being rational if I went around saying they existed? It's a 50/50 chance after all, right? Of course the fuck not. Thing is, they all have the same exact probability of existing as God does.
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Why am I saying this? Because those who believe have their own reason to do so. This topic can be argued to no end, as I have witnessed way too many times. Because, I read the Bible, and I used those facts I read in the book to counter the argument of a believer.
And that's fine. Those reasons aren't logical though. That's all.
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Now, what did I get? Nothing. They say that they still want to believe. It is their opinion that god does exist, and by debating, you will hardly force anyone to say: "Okay man, you have shown me the light, now I am not a believer anymore."

Thus, I think that this is an endless debate. A circle.
Same can happen in any debate if the people you're debating with refuse to be rational. Not my problem. I don't debate to sway people's opinion, I've learned long ago that no matter how rational you are so people just won't budge. This isn't unique to this particular topic, at all.
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While what you are saying is true, Miburo, can you prove that the universe is endless? No. That is why I said that this is a bad debating topic. If you say "It could have very well always existed in that original state until it exploded out and shit or whatever, after all" - someone can say this:"It could, but there is still a possibility that it did not. And I believe the latter."
Of course I can't. I wasn't trying to either. The point of that was to show that what others are presenting isn't the only possibility. I could have said "The universe is just a water droplet that fell off the paw of a giant sea otter" or some shit and it'd be equally probable to saying "God did it." For argument's sake though, I stuck to something more rational to lend even more credibility to my point. Reality is we just don't fucking know. It's not so hard to admit that, really. I wasn't trying to pretend I had an answer, don't misunderstand me, dude.
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This the exact same as:"I believe in God!" and the other person says:"Your God doesn't exist. It's for fools who cannot use their brains." Do you think he will say:"You are right!"? He will remain with his former self. And there is no way that you will, by debating, change his view on the world.
And I honestly couldn't care less either. ; )

My goal is to present a logical argument that can't be countered and destroys any opposing argument. That's it. If they want to be stubborn then no skin off my back.

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A single human cannot comprehend the universe. Not yet, at least. Thus, there will always be different theories and beliefs.
Again, that's fine. But that doesn't mean we should take every baseless, completely-void-of-logic theory seriously. And we definitely shouldn't treat them as being equal to one's based on logic, reason, and scientific evidence.

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Nonsense. Debating a type of a god is always the same thing. I wouldn't see how debating a Monkey God is any different from Christianity. Everyone should have at least a mutual respect for their pantheons and nations.
You misunderstood. I've seen people go "I worship a can of soup. One of the definitions of a god is an idle that is worshiped. Therefore the can of soup is my god and it exists, meaning god exists" and really, really stupid shit like that. So I was just trying to avoid it coming down to something like that again, that's all. I don't care if we're talking about Allah or Zeus or whatever.

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Everyone have their belief. Sometimes it is best to just let it be.
And I do. Except, you know, in a debate...

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Becuz Imma intelligent, gudz dunt exist, lulz! It's logic!
Hey, look back in the thread a bit. You'll see that there is actually a post that boils down to exactly what I paraphrased there. You'll have a hard time finding something I said in this thread boil down to your poor attempt at mocking me though.

If someone is going to say stupid shit like that in what is supposed to be an intelligent discussion, then they ruin the risk of getting mocked a bit. Don't like it? Too bad.
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Yes? I am an atheist and I value logic. But offending someone who is believer is just plain arrogant. I wouldn't expect you to have said something like that.
Hey, I didn't force anyone to come in here. Ever think I might find it offensive that people will come in here, not read a thing I type, yet have the nerve to say that what I'm debating is stupid while still tossing their illogical shit into the mix? Not that I would take offense to stupid shit people say, but if I did I'd have ever right to do so. Of course you're not crying about that though. = /
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If you want to debate pointless topics, at least respect your fellow debaters who are arguing with you. Saying "Jeebus FTW" is offending their belief. It is not a way to be diplomatic.
If those particular 'fellow debaters' actually made any attempt at all to put up any half-way, almost, sorta, kinda logical argument at all then I would. Respect isn't something you're entitled to, it's something you earn. You don't see me mocking DA, 48, Kat, LN, UT, or anyone else when we debate because they all can put up good arguments and debate well (And they're cool in my book). It's not like I just randomly go around being an asshole to people or anything. Don't give me that shit, dude.

If people want respect then they're more than welcome to earn it like everyone else does. I couldn't care less if I offend them with some Simpson reference that in no way has anything to do with their religious beliefs, and had everything to do with their shitty debating skills and horrible logic. I'm sure they'll get over it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trey View Post
However, I must add: even if God does not exist in a provable, physical way, he exists in the minds of many people living on this Earth. So he does exist in some form, which is why you cannot prove or disprove his existence. To totally denounce the legitamancy of God, you must purge him from the minds of every person who believes in Him in some form or another.
Uh, okay. I'll give you that one I guess. God exists in people's minds. Doesn't really mean much of anything, and has absolutely nothing to do with his actual existence though. *shrugs*
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:20 AM   #232
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Trey View Post
Tl;dr.

However, I must add: even if God does not exist in a provable, physical way, he exists in the minds of many people living on this Earth. So he does exist in some form, which is why you cannot prove or disprove his existence. To totally denounce the legitamancy of God, you must purge him from the minds of every person who believes in Him in some form or another.
Well, I guess in this case, we're talking about a beyond-the-universe God and not merely the concept of a God.


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Originally Posted by Lily229 View Post
In my own beliefs, there is no all mighty being known as 'God' but God does exist in all of us, if that makes any sense. God is the kindness in someone holding a door for a little old lady etc. So in theory, God does exist to a certain sense but not in the mystic way most want to see it.
I think you're referring to altruism, but meh =P
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:01 AM   #233
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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People are either Theism or Atheist when it comes to God's topic. Theism believes that God is all powerful, he created everything and that's just that. While atheist well...don't. There are both resonable arguments on both sides of each factor so no one can give a solid valid statement that yes God is real or no God is not real.
You're forgetting agnosticism. In a nutshell, that means that there are people who don't think that god(s) exist but think that they might.


Quote:
God does exist whether you believe it or not.
Okay. I can play this game. The Flying Spaghetti Monster exists whether you believe it or not.

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I amy have went to far with my last comment but it was just how i felt about it. the prblem was that i am so passionate about being a christian I have trouble showing restraint when dealing with non christians because i want to share the great news of being a christian.
Honestly, I'm normally okay with that. Good for you. However, when you came to the debate forum, you're expected to debate rather than just give your personal opinion. You need to learn that nobody in here actually is upset at you for believing in Jesus and all that goes with the Bible. However, we want a DEBATE. We need to back up our beliefs with facts and logic. If you can't do that then this place isn't for you.



Wikipedia actually has a pretty sweet article about whether or not God exists. It breaks down almost all the arguments for both sides and as far as I can see, it all comes down to this: God is, by definition, a supernatural being. The only way for God to exist is for God to be well outside the bounds of logic and what humans know. The end.
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:53 AM   #234
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

Have you guys ever read the bible?
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:59 AM   #235
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

This post may end all arguement...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6IL...eature=related
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:22 PM   #236
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
I like you, so I won't hold you too that. : )
Okay, lol.


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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
God has the same probability of existing as anything that I can make up in my mind so long as I make the definition vague enough so that it can't be disproven. And I mean anything. Would you say pixies and the boogie man have the same exact 50/50 existing/non-existing ratio? How about flying space turtles with machine guns strapped to their backs that speak russian and love bananas? Would you say that I'd be being rational if I went around saying they existed? It's a 50/50 chance after all, right? Of course the fuck not. Thing is, they all have the same exact probability of existing as God does.
I lol'd, though I have to disagree.
If men could have every inch of this planet under their surveillance 24/7, they could prove that there is no such thing as Yeti, a boogie man or similar shit.
But, if someone believes their god is unseen, and omnipresent, you cannot make them disbelief by logic (at least the logic we now posses; it may evolve) nor by facts.

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
And that's fine. Those reasons aren't logical though. That's all.
I know what you mean. But a believer believes that their god is above logic.
That is what I have been trying to say.


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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Same can happen in any debate if the people you're debating with refuse to be rational. Not my problem. I don't debate to sway people's opinion, I've learned long ago that no matter how rational you are so people just won't budge. This isn't unique to this particular topic, at all.
Yes, that is true. Yet, religion is based on faith. Faith has something which is invisible/incorporeal.
It holds it's own truth of this world, which can be disproven through some debates, but most of it still cannot.
So, it will always be an edgy debate.


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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Of course I can't. I wasn't trying to either. The point of that was to show that what others are presenting isn't the only possibility. I could have said "The universe is just a water droplet that fell off the paw of a giant sea otter" or some shit and it'd be equally probable to saying "God did it." For argument's sake though, I stuck to something more rational to lend even more credibility to my point. Reality is we just don't fucking know. It's not so hard to admit that, really. I wasn't trying to pretend I had an answer, don't misunderstand me, dude.
I know. And that is okay. Your arguments are always convicting and rational. Of course, you are correct - we cannot know.
That is why I did mind later on how you said "Jeebus FTW" sentence.
Though I laughed =)

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
My goal is to present a logical argument that can't be countered and destroys any opposing argument. That's it. If they want to be stubborn then no skin off my back.
Fair enough. But, so far, I haven't seen much success in this thread, that is why I came down with usual, /facepalm @ thread.

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
You misunderstood. I've seen people go "I worship a can of soup. One of the definitions of a god is an idle that is worshiped. Therefore the can of soup is my god and it exists, meaning god exists" and really, really stupid shit like that. So I was just trying to avoid it coming down to something like that again, that's all. I don't care if we're talking about Allah or Zeus or whatever.


True, true ;D

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
And I do. Except, you know, in a debate...
Yeah. I just, you know, thought this is one of those endless debate topics.

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Hey, look back in the thread a bit. You'll see that there is actually a post that boils down to exactly what I paraphrased there. You'll have a hard time finding something I said in this thread boil down to your poor attempt at mocking me though.
You misunderstood, I wasn't trying to mock you.
I just found it bias to quote Kat and say Jeebus ftw. Being a free thinker and all.

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
If someone is going to say stupid shit like that in what is supposed to be an intelligent discussion, then they ruin the risk of getting mocked a bit. Don't like it? Too bad.
I don't know, man.
Some people have been learning different stuff thought their whole life.
You know, like being convinced and no one can disprove it.
This is one of those zones. And that is what differs here in this debate when you compare it too all other topics.

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Hey, I didn't force anyone to come in here. Ever think I might find it offensive that people will come in here, not read a thing I type, yet have the nerve to say that what I'm debating is stupid while still tossing their illogical shit into the mix? Not that I would take offense to stupid shit people say, but if I did I'd have ever right to do so. Of course you're not crying about that though. = /
Yeah, I get that.

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
If those particular 'fellow debaters' actually made any attempt at all to put up any half-way, almost, sorta, kinda logical argument at all then I would. Respect isn't something you're entitled to, it's something you earn. You don't see me mocking DA, 48, Kat, LN, UT, or anyone else when we debate because they all can put up good arguments and debate well (And they're cool in my book). It's not like I just randomly go around being an asshole to people or anything. Don't give me that shit, dude.
Respect is to be earned? I sometimes find that disgusting, but sometimes absolutely true.
It differs from situation to situation.
Here, I understand you. I am the same, actually. I know I respect you, let's say, so I will pay more attention to your posts then some others, who made a post full of nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
If people want respect then they're more than welcome to earn it like everyone else does. I couldn't care less if I offend them with some Simpson reference that in no way has anything to do with their religious beliefs, and had everything to do with their shitty debating skills and horrible logic. I'm sure they'll get over it.
Fair enough.
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:25 PM   #237
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

Im sorry but God is imaginary but religion really do make someone life better Im not saying thats its bad to have religion, all im saying is having religion does gives you a guide a goal. Going to church is like a club where you can enjoy life, help each other and meet new friends. The feeling of "Gods Existence", "Gods Love" is no more than having a father figure. Thats why people pray to God because they believe he will be there for them for guidance, hope, determination.

I salute religion but not to God.
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:33 PM   #238
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

it has to be true, people follow god, and pray, no matter what religion, because they believe something will happen, it is their faith in an imaginary god that keeps the lie going, but what has god really done for anyone on this forum who believes he exists?? i would love to know, when i was at school i believed in god, why? because i was taught to believe in god... i prayed day in, day out, till i realised, it cant be true, god has never done anything for me, anything for my sick family members, never given my hard working dad a break. never stopped my loved ones from dying. why? because the only truth on this planet is that we are born, and we die. what we choose to do while we are alive is the only freedom we will ever have. my girlfreind said she dosnt actually think that there is a man in heaven guiding our lifes, but she said that she likes having something to believe in, which is the same for most religious followers. truth is, god will do no more for any of you than i will, and thats a fact
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Old 01-17-2008, 01:09 PM   #239
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

God and science are man made creations.

Santa is to children what God is to adults.

While God cannot be proven or debunked, it will forever be a question in man's mind. There is always a question of doubt because man is allowed a thought process. We believe we can only base our world on what we can see, taste, touch, hear or smell. Due to these restrictions, we pay no mind to the spiritual realm in which we walk in and through daily.

Spirits are energy, so they must exist. Science has proven this to us based upon tools that we created to poke and prod what we have restricted ourselves from seeing and accepting. During child growth, we tell ourselves that our imaginary friend is just that, imaginary. While in reality it could have very well been a spirit or maybe it was just nothing. Who really knows?

Science and spirits aside, how do you tell someone God doesn't exist after they've experienced what one can only describe as a "miracle"? How do you tell them that surviving after a 10 story fall onto glass and nails, then walking away unscathed was merely a fluke? What do you tell those that have NDEs (Near Death Experiences) when they see things that one can only declare "Impossible!"?

My thoughts on the Bible are nothing more than it being a book. Have you ever played Grocery List with a group of friends? You sit in a circle and start with something simple, like Bananas, Milk and Eggs. By the time it goes around the circle and comes back to you, it's now flying elephant ice cream cones and wiffle bats. Of course the Bible is going to have flaws and of course there will be inaccuracies; it contains multiple tales from different eras about different people. Should we believe everything in the Bible? No. Should we believe everything in our Science textbooks? No.

But can we debate about the two? Absolutely.

Having written a persuasive essay declaring God does not exist, I'm still in the middle of whether or not He/She/It does. I believe there is something, whether it's an omnipotent being/thing or simply just the big bang. However, I don't think I should devote my life to something that may not even exist because in reality, it can't be proven anything does actually exist.
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Old 01-17-2008, 01:42 PM   #240
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Re: Proof that god does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
I lol'd, though I have to disagree.
If men could have every inch of this planet under their surveillance 24/7, they could prove that there is no such thing as Yeti, a boogie man or similar shit.
But, if someone believes their god is unseen, and omnipresent, you cannot make them disbelief by logic (at least the logic we now posses; it may evolve) nor by facts.
Yeti, yeah. That's not vague enough. Boogie man? Pixies? Flying, banana loving, space turtle with machine gun back that speaks russian? No. I could just say they're magic and no matter what we do we cannot detect them unless they allow us to. You know, same as god. Except that if I went around telling everyone I believed in flying magic space turtles I'd land myself in a nut-farm real quick.

You cannot honestly sit here and say that anything I make up in my mind on the fly so long as it's vague enough has an equal probability of existing as it does non-existing. If something had an equally probable chance of existing and non-existing then it wouldn't be considered foolish logically to take baseless, unverified claims seriously. Thing is, when applying logic, it is; and there is a good reason for that too.
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I know what you mean. But a believer believes that their god is above logic.
That is what I have been trying to say.
I know. And you should be fully aware that saying something like that is always just a way of explaining an illogical belief. It's a claim they cannot verify or back in anyway. To put it bluntly, it's bullshit.
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Yes, that is true. Yet, religion is based on faith. Faith has something which is invisible/incorporeal.
It holds it's own truth of this world, which can be disproven through some debates, but most of it still cannot.
So, it will always be an edgy debate.
I know it's faith. Faith, however, has no place in a debate. Also, it's quite easy to show that their beliefs are illogical, which in any other debate setting means that they fucking lose. It's actually no different here.

Illogical beliefs are fine. There's nothing wrong with that, so long as people don't attempt to pass them off as anything other than that. They're for personal use only, and in no way should they be attempted to be applied in any other scenario.


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Yeah. I just, you know, thought this is one of those endless debate topics.
So are debates about abortion and shit too. This isn't anything special.

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You misunderstood, I wasn't trying to mock you.
I just found it bias to quote Kat and say Jeebus ftw. Being a free thinker and all.
I don't think I ever quoted Kat...
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I don't know, man.
Some people have been learning different stuff thought their whole life.
You know, like being convinced and no one can disprove it.
This is one of those zones. And that is what differs here in this debate when you compare it too all other topics.
People learn a lot of stuff throughout their lives. You don't think kids are growing up in households where their parents are racists and shit like that? That wouldn't make being a racist any more viable or right. That just explains a possible why, that's all.

What people are taught throughout their lives has nothing to do with how logical those teachings are. Like DA said, no one is making fun of religion and shit here. We're just applying logic and rationale to the topic, because that's what you have to do in a debate.
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