Miburo

Yeti, yeah. That's not vague enough. Boogie man? Pixies? Flying, banana loving, space turtle with machine gun back that speaks russian? No. I could just say they're magic and no matter what we do we cannot detect them unless they allow us to. You know, same as god. Except that if I went around telling everyone I believed in flying magic space turtles I'd land myself in a nut-farm real quick.

You cannot honestly sit here and say that anything I make up in my mind on the fly so long as it's vague enough has an equal probability of existing as it does non-existing. If something had an equally probable chance of existing and non-existing then it wouldn't be considered foolish logically to take baseless, unverified claims seriously. Thing is, when applying logic, it is; and there is a good reason for that too.
I know. And you should be fully aware that saying something like that is always just a way of explaining an illogical belief. It's a claim they cannot verify or back in anyway. To put it bluntly, it's bullshit.
I know it's faith. Faith, however, has no place in a debate. Also, it's quite easy to show that their beliefs are illogical, which in any other debate setting means that they fucking lose. It's actually no different here.

Illogical beliefs are fine. There's nothing wrong with that, so long as people don't attempt to pass them off as anything other than that. They're for personal use only, and in no way should they be attempted to be applied in any other scenario.


So are debates about abortion and shit too. This isn't anything special.

I don't think I ever quoted Kat...
People learn a lot of stuff throughout their lives. You don't think kids are growing up in households where their parents are racists and shit like that? That wouldn't make being a racist any more viable or right. That just explains a possible why, that's all.

What people are taught throughout their lives has nothing to do with how logical those teachings are. Like DA said, no one is making fun of religion and shit here. We're just applying logic and rationale to the topic, because that's what you have to do in a debate.

Shrike

Fair enough.
This is not a topic I like to discuss though, so I will just vanish.

That was a good post. And the one before.

wuggle

god can do anything he wants, humans arnt god so therefor we cannot do everything he can, end of subject

NarutoFreak Jr.

This is why sometimes not believing is the best thing afterall. =]

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wuggle

yea lol i dont believe in any of it its just a story some guy wrote ages ago

narut012

can't prove hes real, can't prove hes fake

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NarutoFreak Jr.

Well I guess there is a way. To prove that "God" is true or fake, ask him to smite you and do many immoral things. If he smites you... well you're screwed but then god is real. =]

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Tabris

seriously, i haven't posted in this thread till now cause it was just so idiotic.
how can you prove with science that soemthing that is phylosophical exists?
second if god exists and is almighty, why would the science bind him?
if he's unlimited, why woudl he be bound by a limited world?

this is a rediculous waist of time and space
(i'm gonna get reprimanded for this)

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shahbayu

i 100% agree with you. way to go honey

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FC's

GhostShade

I agree.

Also I'd say I don't care if there is a god or not, seriously nothing will change anything if I discovered it's proof.That's why I chose to be Agnostic.

Meteorain27

In response to earlier posts, religion is harmful to a certain degree. You want me to say it again? Religion is harmful. Not necessarily religious violence, because I understand that the majority of theists wouldn't do that kind of thing, but to social issues that could benefit humanity. Abortion and Stem Cell Research, and Cloning are things that could help humanity but have been opposed on mostly religious grounds. The idea of the earth orbiting the sun was stalled several years because of the Church's vehement opposition to it. Many people I've asked would never murder someone, even if they could save hundreds of lives doing so, because of "Thou should not kill". Many expect God to come and save them from situations they put themselves into, and so absolve themselves of personal responsibility.

That being said, the trouble religion brings might be worth it. It helps many deal with their own problems, and is supposedly very comforting.


Anyways, think about the idea of God logically (Mostly a Christian God, as it is the idea that I'm most familiar with):
- A being that is timeless.
- A being that is formless.
- A being with no characteristics of a being
- A being that is merciful yet condemns those that are not its "sheep" to hell.
-What if someone was never introduced to Christianity?
- A being that despite having no form, created us in his image.
- Etc.

And also, personally, I see the only sensible theism is denominational theism. I oppose any attempts to regulate morality. For example, would most of you say there is anything wrong with eating a cow? In Hinduism, it's a sin. In the same way, other religions arbitrarily say certain acts are either good or bad. It's like a dictator saying that it is a sin to eat with a spork.

The only reason people are theists is because of tradition and beliefs ingrained into them as children, as well as peer pressure and widespread acceptance. Too many people are afraid to go against the accepted norm.

Further notes:

- A God that only cares about faith towards Himself sounds like a dictator to me. In the same vein, a God that gives you laws to follow is also a dictator. I would only accept a God that only cares about the intent of your actions instead of caring about the actions themselves, then that would be a kind and just God.

- If God can't be proven or disproven, that means that the idea of God is false by default. Like Russel's Teapot.

-Don't dare say that I'm trying to ruin something for theists. It's their choice to look at this debate thread in the first place.

Fun Fact: Atheists are the most mistrusted minority in America. That makes me sick. Just because we're logical doesn't mean we have moral values. People tell me that I'm one of the nicest people they've met.


Contradiction: You're saying that miracles are evidence of God, but wouldn't evidence undermine the whole purpose of Him? :P "Highly improbable" and "Miracle" are the same things.

Not science. Just logic. And saying that he exists outside of the boundaries of our knowledge or whatever is a cop out, plain and simple. A sentient Caramellized Coney is my best friend, and you can't disprove him because he also exists outside of time and space. In fact, right now he's playing poker with God. And winning.

This furthers my view that most theists are doublethinkers. Do you realize the irony of asserting God's existence while violating:
That's the same type of thinking that led to the crusades.

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DarkAztek

Ahoy there, Captain! Leaps of logic are bountiful in these seas!


You're saying that the policies of one or two religions == all religions. Your beef is with Christianity (or rather, just Catholics and Evangelicals as it appears). Religion as a whole is not harmful... At least not for the reasons that you listed.

Fail because you assume that a supernatural being of God like proportions must be everything that is in the Christian texts. If you really want to logically consider the existence of (a) god(s) then you have to consider all possibilities. See previous links.

Also, eating a cow isn't a sin in Hinduism. That's a gross misrepresentation. Cows are considered to be sacred vessels of the divine (sometimes). However, there are times when this is not so. Hundreds of cows and goats are sacrificed during certain holidays for a variety of purposes. Hinduism, of all main stream religions, is by far the best at allowing people to worship how they want. Basically, you can pick and choose your way of connecting with Brahman.

That's a gross generalization. Got anything to back up that claim?

You ARE trying to ruin something by theists using thinly veiled insults towards those that believe in God. You can still debate the existence of God without talking down to them.

Nope. The most mistrusted minority in America is actually Muslims, specifically black Muslims. (And should we include devil worshipers or Wiccans? No? Why's that? Because you didn't bother to back up anything you said here?)

Obviously atheists are not the most logical. Don't make such a pretentious claim. That is what makes me sick.

How so? Elaborate.

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Miburo

I'm going to give the benefit of doubt to the guy and assume that he meant "When it comes to believing in the existence of unverifiable, baseless super-natural beings such as a god, non-existence is the most logical stance on the matter." Which it is. So, in this particular scenario, Atheists are being the most logical, as they're taking the most logical stance.

Tabris

I <3 DA! >_< long time no see

part of the mercy thing is, if you do not reach an understanding that god exists, you are blameless, you are not sent to hell.

and if you are to young to understand what right and wrong is, or what God it, then you are also blameless....

and that's all i've read of this post so far.
try to ask a few more questions and do a little more research before you state "facts" about a God you don't know anything about


and he didn't say he was formless

and miburo is right, the stance of not believing something we can not possibly comprehend, fully understand, study or even "lay our finger on" is the most reasonable conclusion.


but to say that god does not exist means that you can see every where in the universe, meaning you must be every where in teh universe, so you can see it all, right?
so aren't you god then?

jsut a silly story i was told ^^^

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Hanz86

anyone exist in the world was create by something..the car exist coz HUMAN created it.same way goes to HUMAN..We exist coz GOD had created us..Althought he is unseen and hidden, he always watching us..he is the only ALMIGHTY one..