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Old 03-21-2008, 11:42 AM   #136
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Re: Naruto Pairings FC

I read what you wrote. You make some good arguments based on author's intent. Hinata's primary purpose is to be someone who admires and believes in Naruto, and to show how she grows from that.

In part I.


In Shippuden its a different story.

What Naruto feels for Sakura is omre than a crush, but more on that next time and Hinata's Shippuden purpose next time.
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Old 03-21-2008, 03:38 PM   #137
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Re: Naruto Pairings FC

hey i think tenten is totally into neji
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Old 03-21-2008, 03:49 PM   #138
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Re: Naruto Pairings FC

Quote:
What Naruto feels for Sakura is omre than a crush
Only if a brother-sister relationship is more than a crush.
Quote:
In Shippuden its a different story.

but more on that next time and Hinata's Shippuden purpose next time.
So far in Shippuden there's been almost nothing with Hinata, so anything you say about her purpose in Shippuden will most likely have no factual basis. I can most likely automatically discount it.

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hey i think tenten is totally into neji
Nice to meet you and welcome to the club! Yeah, NejiTen does seem to have a bit of likelihood.
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Old 03-21-2008, 07:11 PM   #139
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Re: Naruto Pairings FC

Hiya and welcome!!

You know what? I'm gonna hide in the corner for this arguement because 1. I hate arguements and 2. I can never really prove a point anyways.

I will leave you with this, though. NARUHINA IS THE BEST!!!
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Old 03-21-2008, 07:26 PM   #140
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Re: Naruto Pairings FC

@HinaFan: is it just me or do we make a great tag-team? XD (more referring to your post before this)

@Highspeed: Her Shippuden purpose? Why do I get the feeling that what you are going to say is going to be biased, unfounded, and is going to piss me off?
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Old 03-21-2008, 08:09 PM   #141
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Re: Naruto Pairings FC

Quote:
@HinaFan: is it just me or do we make a great tag-team? XD (more referring to your post before this)
Hell yeah! *high fives*
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@Highspeed: Her Shippuden purpose? Why do I get the feeling that what you are going to say is going to be biased, unfounded, and is going to piss me off?
I'm pretty sure you're getting that feeling because it is most likely going to be.
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Old 03-22-2008, 03:27 PM   #142
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Re: Naruto Pairings FC

So . . .we were going to discuss two issues. Naruto's feelings for Sakura, and Hinata's purpose. There are geniune arguments to be made for both subjects that are more than founded, using context and an estimation of author's intent.

Opponents of NaruSaku tend to make the relationship out to be a "crush" or a "brotherly-sisterly" relationship. Which is it? One will always contradict the other. Unless its both . . . but if you have that, you are coming dangerously close to love.

Hinata does have a serious lack of development in Shippuden. She still holds all of her same feelings, but its dangerous and as you both put it "unfounded" to assume that her purpose, when it does develop, will remain the same as it was in part I. Neither Hinata nor Naruto face the need to prove themselves quite so much anymore.

Lets begin with Naruto and his view of Sakura. (And perhaps we agree for the moment that Sakura's feelings are the most complex in the series, so I'm going to avoid lighting that fire for right now.)

Context: Naruto had a crush on Sakura in part I. His desire to be accepted by Sasuke in time overshadowed that crush. During the fight with Gaara, however, that relationship deepened for Naruto. At this point in the story, Naruto declares Sakura as precious to him. (So does Sasuke for that matter, and though they don't realize it, the conflict between the two deepens as they both feel closer to Sakura, an interesting moment. Ironic that Sasuke is the one who makes him realize it.) Page 11-16 of this chapter is what I refer to. There is a lot going on, yes, but Sakura is the catalyst.

http://www.narutocentral.com/manga-viewer/133/11/

So now we have crush + deep friendship worth giving your life for = what? Brotherly? I doubt it, but this is the part that is affected most by bias.

Moving on, we come to another critical point. Page 17 and 18.

http://www.narutocentral.com/manga-viewer/172/17/

Seems this famous moment gets interpreted by bias on both sides. On one hand you could say he is only accepting Sakura's feelings for Sasuke. But if you read deeper into what Tsunade says on the next page, you also have a third party opinion of a Naruto who is hurt by the what he sees.

Authors intent:

Kishi masterfully creates a conflicted love trianlge here, but this moment is telling of Naruto's character. Its a well written example of the old addage that
"If you truely love someone, you are willing to le them go." This is what Naruto does.

But he also throws up a barrier. He still professses his attraction to Sakura in Shippuden by asking for or trying to win a date on technicalities. (Not to mention the peeping incident)

But now the deeper feelings are buried deep down, and throws up defensive walls, like when he cuts Sakura off from telling him it was really him she was worried about.

So what you end up with is a person who behaves like he has just a natural attraction that he doesn't take very seriously. But you have to look at the context of the story as to WHY he acts this way or you miss out.

Now, having said all this doesn't mean that a closer relationship with Hinata isn't going to happen. In fact, NaruHina fans shouldn't feel threatened by how Naruto feels about Sakura, (and I think many of you do, otherwise it wouldn't be such an issue) because in the end it has absolutley no factor on how Naruto could potentially feel about Hinata at this point.

This was a long post so I'll delve more into Hinata (ummm . . . so to speak!) next time.
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Old 03-22-2008, 03:53 PM   #143
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Re: Naruto Pairings FC

Actually, I'm on the side that agrees that Naruto's feeling are anything but shallow, and obvioulsy not entirely platonic.

Though I do find it interesting that it is Sasuke who makes Naruto realize how precious Sakura is, just as it is Sasuke who makes Sakura reconsider the way she treats Naruto and who tells her that she's never seen the real Naruto....

=/ Once again, NaruSaku is filled with outside influence from Sasuke...

That's one of my major reasons for not supporting the pairing.

It's not like that with SasuSaku or NaruHina.
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Old 03-22-2008, 04:09 PM   #144
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Re: Naruto Pairings FC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highspeed0516 View Post
Authors intent:

Kishi masterfully creates a conflicted love trianlge here, but this moment is telling of Naruto's character. Its a well written example of the old addage that
"If you truely love someone, you are willing to le them go." This is what Naruto does.

But he also throws up a barrier. He still professses his attraction to Sakura in Shippuden by asking for or trying to win a date on technicalities. (Not to mention the peeping incident)

But now the deeper feelings are buried deep down, and throws up defensive walls, like when he cuts Sakura off from telling him it was really him she was worried about.

So what you end up with is a person who behaves like he has just a natural attraction that he doesn't take very seriously. But you have to look at the context of the story as to WHY he acts this way or you miss out.

Now, having said all this doesn't mean that a closer relationship with Hinata isn't going to happen. In fact, NaruHina fans shouldn't feel threatened by how Naruto feels about Sakura, (and I think many of you do, otherwise it wouldn't be such an issue) because in the end it has absolutley no factor on how Naruto could potentially feel about Hinata at this point.

This was a long post so I'll delve more into Hinata (ummm . . . so to speak!) next time.
actually... I'm in thinking that he still had his crush back then, then saw that Sakura loves Sasuke, could have been hurt, but still accepted it. But I think by now, he doesn't have that much of a crush on Sakura left. I think that's died down a lot. I explain the peeping by him being a pervert since ero-sennin rubbed off on him. XD


regarding your last comment, it's always better to discount something even partially instead of leaving it for others to use... and then there are the fantards who are all: "But Naruto lovez Sakura soz he cant liek Hinata!!1!!!one!"
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Old 03-22-2008, 06:23 PM   #145
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Re: Naruto Pairings FC

naru hina can spring up at anytime they are still young and have alot more things to do than think about relations
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Old 03-22-2008, 06:24 PM   #146
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Re: Naruto Pairings FC

Quote:
In fact, NaruHina fans shouldn't feel threatened by how Naruto feels about Sakura, (and I think many of you do, otherwise it wouldn't be such an issue) because in the end it has absolutley no factor on how Naruto could potentially feel about Hinata at this point.
Actually, that's not true, the reason I think it's an issue is because NaruSaku fans insist that that's how Naruto feels about Sakura. It's not defensive because of his feelings in the story, it's defensive against an overexaggerated interpretation of his feelings by the fans. We recognise that Naruto has yet to show a truly romantic intrest in Hinata, but we also know he likes people like her and shares a lot of things in common with her that can't be said for Sakura, and we also take into account SasuSaku, which is the most backed up pairing I've seen in the series besides a few other non-Naruto, Sakura, or Sasuke related pairings.

Also, you contradict yourself, you said that Shippuden is a new series entirely, then you start bringing up a bunch of evidence from pre-TS, not to mention the only evidence you brought up that had impact was vastly open to interpretation, which I won't go into other than that it only implies romantic intrest if you expressly think that way and no other way whatsoever, and I don't think that's even how Kishi implied most of those to be interpreted. Anyway, just going into post-TS would be pointless as anything that could be said about Hinata would msot likely be total bull, making your case incredibly limited, as the only scene so far we have showing direct interaction between Naruto and Hinata is incredibly NaruHina, and a cute one at that.
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Old 03-22-2008, 08:15 PM   #147
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Re: Naruto Pairings FC

I think its a major error to think of Shippuden as an entirely new series... because it isn't. o.o Part I is Part II's base. You simply can't discredit the first half of a novel, so to speak...

And the characters haven't changed that much... at least not in my opinion. They've all matured and grown stronger, but their personalities are still the same, the core of the characters has remained the same. Until Sakura openly states that her feelings have changed, until Naruto does so, and until Hinata does so, I will believe that the romantic feelings haven't altered in nature or of who they are directed towards.

All things considered, I think it will be the bonds that Naruto and Sakura offered to Sasuke at the end of Part I, that will save him. I don't think Kishi's intent is to change those feelings, instead, I believe he wants to preserve what he established in Part I and deepen it in Part II. That seems to be what is necessary for Naruto and Sakura to accomplish their goal.

And going with the themes of the series... bonds, people accepting other people, the next generation surpassing the former.... It's hard for me to imagine Naruto rejecting Hinata if she ever does confess to him... But, depending on how its handled, I could accept it.






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If the elephants have past lives yet are destined to always remember
It's no wonder how they scream
Like you and I they must have some temper

And I am dreaming of them on the plains
Dirtying up their beds
Watching for some sign of rain to cool their hot heads

And how dare that you send me that card when I'm doing all that I can do
You are forcing me to remember when all I want is to just forget you

If the tiger shall protect her young then tell me how did you slip by
All my instincts have failed me for once
I must have somehow slept the whole night

And I am dreaming of them with their kill
Tearing it all apart
Blood dripping from their lips and teeth sinking into heart

And how dare that you say you'll call
When you know I need some peace of mind
If you have to take sides with the animals
Won't you do it with one who is kind

And if the hawks in the trees need the dead
If you're living you don't stand a chance
For a time though you share the same bed
There are only two ends to this dance

You can flee with your wounds just in time or lie there as he feeds
Watching yourself ripped to shreds and laughing as you bleed

So for those of you falling in love keep it kind
Keep it good
Keep it right
Throw yourself in the midst of danger but keep one eye open at night


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Old 03-23-2008, 12:14 AM   #148
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Re: Naruto Pairings FC

Ok, this is how I look at it from each character potential perspective.

Sasuke's feelings towards Sakura at most could be that he does have something emotionally deeper for her than just a teammate and friend. Though at the very least he respects her for everything she's done for him.

On the flip side Sakura's feelings for Sasuke could be alot more....dramatic ? At the most she could still feel that loving passion that she's held since the very beginning of the series. At the least she may still love him (probably does) but with time she's matured and may feel differently towards him after everything he's done.

As far as her feelings towards Naruto goes, at the most I think that she has developed deeper feelings for Naruto (At least from part 1) and finally see's what he's truely worth. At the very least she could have gained alot of respect for her teammate and may like him due to his spirit and nothing more than that.

As far as his feelings for Sakura goes, I think that at most he truely still loves her deeply and what may have started out as a crush from part one is now full of meaning of why he admires her. At the least, he still probably likes her tue to asking her out to dates and all that, but doesn't let go of the fact that she loved Sasuke deeply at one point, and wont let his feeling go any further for whatever reason it may be in the end.

As far as Naruto's feelings towards Hinata goes, at the most he aknowledges her drive to get better as strength as well as her kindness. Hell, he may even be physically attracted to her which I'll give NaruHina fans as they need as much help as they can get, but at this moment I think most of us can agree that he doesn't have any feeling close to love for her yet not even a crush. He may just like her a bit outside of being a friend and a fellow ninja, maybe.

As far as Hinata is concerned, she basically has deep feelings for Naruto. No ifs ands or buts about it. There is a very stong chance that it is love, but also consider the fact that she doesn't know him fully, actually much at all to say it's love. But hey love is blind sometimes ya know.

So thats how I view the "big 4" on each side of the coin. I think that these are but a few reasons why NaruHina, SakuSasu and NaruSaku are the most popular pairings, because they all have some realistic chance of happening one way or the other. From there thats where people take sides. BEGUN THE PAIRING WARS HAS!
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Old 03-23-2008, 12:25 AM   #149
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Re: Naruto Pairings FC

Okay, I'm gonna come out of the corner for a sec...

Quote:
Originally Posted by UchihaTaijiya View Post

And going with the themes of the series... bonds, people accepting other people, the next generation surpassing the former.... It's hard for me to imagine Naruto rejecting Hinata if she ever does confess to him... But, depending on how its handled, I could accept it.
I agree. Naruto wouldn't be so cold as to completely cold-shoulder Hinata if she plucked up the courage to confess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HinataFanX View Post
Actually, that's not true, the reason I think it's an issue is because NaruSaku fans insist that that's how Naruto feels about Sakura. It's not defensive because of his feelings in the story, it's defensive against an overexaggerated interpretation of his feelings by the fans. We recognise that Naruto has yet to show a truly romantic intrest in Hinata, but we also know he likes people like her and shares a lot of things in common with her that can't be said for Sakura, and we also take into account SasuSaku, which is the most backed up pairing I've seen in the series besides a few other non-Naruto, Sakura, or Sasuke related pairings.
Also agreed. Naruto and Sakura have almost nothing in common. NaruSaku fans might say “they understand each other cuz of their dramatic pasts!!!” Sakura was made fun of. Boo hoo. I will say this though. They do share the same goal, and are working together to achieve it (save Sasuke, blah blah blah) BUT that doesn’t prove anything. Naruto wants to save his best friend, Sakura wants to save the guy of her dreams. SasuSaku has much more backup than NaruSaku, which is only a silly crush. ( Yes, I’ll probably be
e-bitchslapped by many people for that). SasuSaku has the goal described earlier, and the part 1 stuff, and NaruHina has the Part 1 stuff, and the fact that they probably understand each other the most (not being “good enough”, cast off as worthless).


Oh and ummm… Naruto and Shippuuden are the same thing, part one and part two…
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Old 03-23-2008, 12:55 AM   #150
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Re: Naruto Pairings FC

*Kicks computer, throws things*

I made this huge long post and replied to just about everyone and the thing crashed.

I'll try and summerize.

I wrote that Shippuden was a different story, not a new one. I should have said differnet part of the same story.

I haven't shared my thoughts on Hinata yet, except for a general statement. It was an experiment to see if I would get arguments based on what people THOUGHT I was going to write, rather than what I actually had written. For the most part I got that.

I pointed out that I specify areas where bias is likely to occur.

I shared only a bit more - that Shippuden Hinata would keep her role from Part I (except she doesn't need to prove anything) and become a rival in a way for Sakura. (That's in the story not just fandom)

I thought there were good points all around on Sasuke and Hinata in general. And I agreed with PRODIGY and UchihaTaija.

I stated the largest truth about Kishi's intent for the pairings is that he has designed his story to keep us guessing and arguing . . . like we are now.

I debated phychology. I asked for opinions on why it was in the nature of some fans to prefer pairings where the couple would have more in common, when some fans would prefer they differ more? There are merits to both.

I also examined the notion of exageration and understatement surrounding truth, noting that truth was always somewhere in the middle.

A new observation comes from Ralatone's post. This is a very unbiased analysis, and we all would do well to make concessions as to the range of possibilities in this manner.

Whew . . . please work!
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