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Old 06-19-2008, 11:24 AM   #1
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Do the people really have a voice in government?

Truthfully, I think not. From all the people I've spoken to, a good amount of americans don't really even think to vote and just complain about the conditions the government presses upon us. But for the one's that do vote and remain constant in the political world, do their votes really count? Now my thoughts on this aren't set in stone, so I'd like to hear others opinion on this mater. Especially concerning the idea that the popular vote doesn't count at all and that only the electoral vote does. That would mean that as a person, the only way you'll get any voice in the president you choose, is by voting for the right governor or sheriff of your state. Now from this, I'm only going by what I've heard from a good amount of people that are into this. Let me know what you think.
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Old 06-21-2008, 06:18 PM   #2
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Re: Do the people really have a voice in government?

The Government doesn't do anything for anyone except for themselves. I believe the government setup 911 themselves, and the only reason we are In Iraq Is because of the oil, Did we even ever really find weapons of mass destruction?
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Old 06-21-2008, 10:37 PM   #3
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Re: Do the people really have a voice in government?

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Originally Posted by Torture Maniac View Post
The Government doesn't do anything for anyone except for themselves. I believe the government setup 911 themselves, and the only reason we are In Iraq Is because of the oil, Did we even ever really find weapons of mass destruction?
I'm thinking along the same things you are. And they never did find weapons of mass destruction. Also, I recall that Bush never declared war, but said that it was an invasion. -_- He's no doubt going to declare war at the end of his term so he can stay longer since its written that you can't make a change of presidency in a time of war. Thats the theory I got from my other friend at the least when I was talking with her, and I wouldn't doubt it.
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Old 06-21-2008, 10:41 PM   #4
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Re: Do the people really have a voice in government?

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Originally Posted by Torture Maniac View Post
The Government doesn't do anything for anyone except for themselves. I believe the government setup 911 themselves, and the only reason we are In Iraq Is because of the oil, Did we even ever really find weapons of mass destruction?
To the first part: They DIDN'T set up 9-11, the group who did it did and
it was intentionally supposed to be like 9-1-1

2nd part- Also incorrect. The government puts aside oil/gas so that when
we run out, we'll be good for a few years. Those couple of years we spend
on saved up gas, the government is going to convert people to naural gas
sources over those years.

Trust me, look some of this stuff up. Or at least go to meetings
or something.
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Old 06-21-2008, 10:58 PM   #5
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Re: Do the people really have a voice in government?

Well one can't truly tell whats really going on in the government itself. We can only speculate until something actually happens to give little clues on the matter. Though if anything a great amount of things need to be reformed within the government itself, especially this two party system. There are good people on both sides, but not enough to make any change against the hardcore politicians that bicker needlessly over a subject not because of a real opinion upon the matter, but just because it was thought up by the opposite side and is therefore wrong. I mean maybe the government didn't set up 911, maybe they did. But never discard the fact of it being possible. You'd be surprised with some things now-a-days and its not always good to have a complete faith in something.
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Old 06-22-2008, 02:00 AM   #6
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Re: Do the people really have a voice in government?

The American people have a voice to an extent. America is not a true democracy, we are a democratic republic. A true democracy is a system where every single eligible person has to cast their vote (or at least the majority) in order to pass a decision by the government. That's why it worked for the Greek city-states, there were enough people to vote but there wasn't an insane amount. If America was a true democracy then nothing would get accomplished in a timely manner. But that's also why people vote for state propositions, since it really only applies to them (much like a city-state). In order for us to solve things in a timely manner we elect officials with the hope that they'll share the same stance as us, hence why politicians have a platform that they hope will attract the votes of the citizens. Problem with that is that a politician can lie about their stance to get votes, but then they'll get screwed by the legal system and checks and balances. In short, our government runs on a balance of the voters and the voted, with more power shifted towards the voted.

Also, 9/11 wasn't staged by the government. Yes, they had intel that an attack would be coming, but the attack was not scheduled for some weeks later, hence why it was a surprise attack. Also, Bush is a dumbass and as such he failed to set up any preventive measures. So the attack is partially Bush's lack of action, but the responsibility is all on al-Qaeda. The President does not declare war, he has to ask Congress to, and Congress authorized the attack on Afghanistan and then the invasion on Iraq. It's still war, though. Bush isn't going to do anything by the end of his term because there isn't enough time for it to pass through Congress, and also because right now Congress is mostly anti-Bush, so they'd veto anything he proposes.
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Old 06-22-2008, 02:34 AM   #7
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Re: Do the people really have a voice in government?

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Originally Posted by LonelyNinja View Post
The American people have a voice to an extent. America is not a true democracy, we are a democratic republic. A true democracy is a system where every single eligible person has to cast their vote (or at least the majority) in order to pass a decision by the government. That's why it worked for the Greek city-states, there were enough people to vote but there wasn't an insane amount. If America was a true democracy then nothing would get accomplished in a timely manner. But that's also why people vote for state propositions, since it really only applies to them (much like a city-state). In order for us to solve things in a timely manner we elect officials with the hope that they'll share the same stance as us, hence why politicians have a platform that they hope will attract the votes of the citizens. Problem with that is that a politician can lie about their stance to get votes, but then they'll get screwed by the legal system and checks and balances. In short, our government runs on a balance of the voters and the voted, with more power shifted towards the voted.

Also, 9/11 wasn't staged by the government. Yes, they had intel that an attack would be coming, but the attack was not scheduled for some weeks later, hence why it was a surprise attack. Also, Bush is a dumbass and as such he failed to set up any preventive measures. So the attack is partially Bush's lack of action, but the responsibility is all on al-Qaeda. The President does not declare war, he has to ask Congress to, and Congress authorized the attack on Afghanistan and then the invasion on Iraq. It's still war, though. Bush isn't going to do anything by the end of his term because there isn't enough time for it to pass through Congress, and also because right now Congress is mostly anti-Bush, so they'd veto anything he proposes.
Hm. Now thats definitely a reponse I can work with. Whats your take on the president's comment of the economy being in a "low down" as he called it, and not a depression. Is it to the fact of the state of the economy just being at a point that its declining, though along a point that its going to pick up; or just something to ease the minds of the people.
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:47 PM   #8
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Re: Do the people really have a voice in government?

Absolutely none. As a former Democrat who supported Hillary Clinton, I found it despicable that the Democrates set themselves up to throw away votes like the election before. They had a responsibility to their base, and now thats why they're in trouble. They don't have few ideas that isn't based on their own wants and needs, otherwise they use polls to make up their mind for them. Republicans are truly the dark side of American politics as well, and independents need hold both parties feet to the flame, and torch them both for partisian politics. Partisian politics help no one but politicians getting ready for their next careers outside of government.
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Old 06-24-2008, 05:20 PM   #9
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Re: Do the people really have a voice in government?

Lol, people never have a true voice when there is a central government.
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Old 06-24-2008, 05:47 PM   #10
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Re: Do the people really have a voice in government?

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Lol, people never have a true voice when there is a central government.
Why?

Yeah, a single individual isn't a very loud voice, but the public can get together and become louder when there's free speech and freedom of assembly.
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:21 PM   #11
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Re: Do the people really have a voice in government?

They have to go through a politician to get there problems solved. Even when there is a bit of voice, the government always takes it away. People get lazy so they leave the government to pamper them because the government ALWAYS has so much power. Then they keep giving the government rights and taking away their own. Boom! Fascism. Every government in existence that wasn't killed off will go through it. The US is going through the cycle as we speak.
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:51 PM   #12
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Re: Do the people really have a voice in government?

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Hm. Now thats definitely a reponse I can work with. Whats your take on the president's comment of the economy being in a "low down" as he called it, and not a depression. Is it to the fact of the state of the economy just being at a point that its declining, though along a point that its going to pick up; or just something to ease the minds of the people.
Glad I could give you something to work with. The economy isn't in the same kind of depression as The Great Depression. But the economy fluctuates no matter what happens, so it's not Bush's fault. He just hasn't done anything to help the situation. But to answer your question, the economy is at a point where it's declining at an alarming rate, but it'll pick up eventually.
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:52 PM   #13
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Re: Do the people really have a voice in government?

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Originally Posted by LonelyNinja View Post
Glad I could give you something to work with. The economy isn't in the same kind of depression as The Great Depression. But the economy fluctuates no matter what happens, so it's not Bush's fault. He just hasn't done anything to help the situation. But to answer your question, the economy is at a point where it's declining at an alarming rate, but it'll pick up eventually.
And it is all because of the FEDERAL RESERVE...aka government.
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:11 PM   #14
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Re: Do the people really have a voice in government?

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And it is all because of the FEDERAL RESERVE...aka government.
But it's not the government's complete fault. Like I said, the economy goes up and down naturally. The government either helps it, or it doesn't, and sometimes the government doesn't have any influence. But you can't blame the government for everything, as tempting as it is.
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:38 PM   #15
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Re: Do the people really have a voice in government?

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Originally Posted by LonelyNinja View Post
But it's not the government's complete fault. Like I said, the economy goes up and down naturally. The government either helps it, or it doesn't, and sometimes the government doesn't have any influence. But you can't blame the government for everything, as tempting as it is.
You don't understand. As long as our government has power of our economy, we will not pick it back up.

See, without the federal reserve things would go up and down and we would live in the great land of capitalism. Ever since The Great Depression, our government is afraid of a depression, but since globalization is now in effect, we don't need to worry about that anymore. So, rid us of Federal Reserve.
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