Gay brains are different - Page 2

**Mal** · 06-22-2008, 06:33 PM

Almost everything that I had wanted to say has already been said by Sugoi:
If you're just skimming the page: read Sugoi's first post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nolan

Sure blame it on child birth.

If you choose to be gay it's your fault not the way you were born.

I'm against this homosexual crap but seriously i don't think they should try to attribute this qualities to child birth.

Or maybe they should because that would mean homosexuality is a disease, i'm 100% for that idea.

By your logic, having a specific hair colour could be labeled a disease.

I'm going to assume you're Christian (possibly southern Baptist?), because you seem to be as closed minded as most of them, if you're not Christian you can ignore this: Homosexuality is a human mutation caused by the Fall of Man in the Garden of Eden when mankind disobeyed and rejected God, and plunged the world into sin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redneckboy

While it could be a natural behavioral response (because experiments show data favoring that argument,) that doesn't mean you can't avoid it. After all, it is natural for us to kill each other in order to save ourselves.

I mean, I am all for equality and everything, but the argument that just because it is natural I should do it doesn't mean it is right. It comes down to your beliefs and philosophy. In the end you can override these natural responses.

I don't think anyone has made any argument about homosexuality being "right", we've just said it's decided at birth. I once read an article by a Christian man who was born homosexual, and it said basically what you're suggesting: Homosexuality is a sin, and in order to live as pure a life as possible you must repress your homosexuality. He did it, it can be done, but (without God and prayer) you cannot simply change the way you were made.

Just for the record, I am Christian.

**Tsuna** · 06-22-2008, 07:00 PM

My question is, whether or not it is deemed to be "right" by the Bible or no, why should you sacrifice your comfort and happiness by forcing yourself to be something you're not? That's like saying to a heterosexual man, "Hey, heterosexuality is wrong. You'll go to hell. So you have to swear off women and fuck men, or else." A straight man would NEVER do that, and if he did, he would never be happy, because he would be forcing himself to become something he wasn't made to be.

What I don't get is why people don't understand that, YES, you can force yourself to suppress your NATURAL impulses and ignore your homosexuality, but you will NEVER be happy with yourself. And all because "homosexuality is a sin". Fuck it being a "sin", it's something homosexuals can't help no matter what they do. Even if they TRY to be heterosexual, that doesn't change the fact that they are not heterosexual. Forcing themselves to be heterosexual would be living a lie.

Tell me, would you be happy living a lie?
No, I didn't think so.

06-22-2008, 07:01 PM

Actually, since there is nothing wrong with it considering it doesn't hurt anyone and is between consenting partners, it can be considered "right." Or just as "right" as anything else that people do that doesn't effect anyone else.

Also, well-fucking-done on this one, Kat.

**Tsuna** · 06-22-2008, 07:02 PM

Why, thank you. xD

Means a lot coming from the debate king, lol.

garra. · 06-22-2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SugoiNaruto162

Tell me, would you be happy living a lie?

No,but some people would also be unhappy if they "came out of the closet".This is because,if they are the type of person who cares about what other people think about them,and since alot of people don't like homosexuals,it might be a lose-lose situation for them.

*garra. probably,once agian,does not know what he is talking about.*

**Mal** · 06-22-2008, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SugoiNaruto162

My question is, whether or not it is deemed to be "right" by the Bible or no, why should you sacrifice your comfort and happiness by forcing yourself to be something you're not? That's like saying to a heterosexual man, "Hey, heterosexuality is wrong. You'll go to hell. So you have to swear off women and fuck men, or else." A straight man would NEVER do that, and if he did, he would never be happy, because he would be forcing himself to become something he wasn't made to be.

What I don't get is why people don't understand that, YES, you can force yourself to suppress your NATURAL impulses and ignore your homosexuality, but you will NEVER be happy with yourself. And all because "homosexuality is a sin". Fuck it being a "sin", it's something homosexuals can't help no matter what they do. Even if they TRY to be heterosexual, that doesn't change the fact that they are not heterosexual. Forcing themselves to be heterosexual would be living a lie.

Tell me, would you be happy living a lie?
No, I didn't think so.

Why do you assume that a person always has to "fuck" someone? Just because I said they shouldn't have sex with men doesn't mean I'm saying they have to have sex with women. Catholic priests swear to a life of celibacy, and the ones who actually hold to it are as happy or happier than you or me. Why would homosexuals be incapable of doing the same? They would not be living a lie.

Let's get one thing clear here:
I'm not saying people shouldn't be homosexual, if that's what they want then let them do as they will, I won't try to force them to do otherwise.

What I am saying is that if a homosexual person believed in God and wanted to live a life "glorifying to God", that person would have to do what I've said.
Before you attack this statement saying they would be unhappy, understand that I said "wanted to live a life...", if living "purely" is what they want, they will be happy. Same goes for me with porn. If I ever think "screw it" and decide to look at porn, I always regret it because I'm not living to glorify God. However, if I resist the temptation to look at porn, I'm happy.

It's all about the Christian mind-set, and I'd honestly be surprised if you understood, let alone agreed with, what I've been getting at in the past few paragraphs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miburo

Actually, since there is nothing wrong with it considering it doesn't hurt anyone and is between consenting partners, it can be considered "right." Or just as "right" as anything else that people do that doesn't effect anyone else.

If you're talking to me: I never said it wasn't "right", I just said no one had said anything either way.
Since you brought it up though, from a secular view point, you are 100% correct and that's exactly how I would reason it were I not Christian. Since I am, though, I'd have to disagree with you because from my perspective it "hurts" the person themselves, just like any other sin would hurt themselves. We can throw logic at this all we want, we just have to differing views and won't be able to convince each other otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garra.

No,but some people would also be unhappy if they "came out of the closet".This is because,if they are the type of person who cares about what other people think about them,and since alot of people don't like homosexuals,it might be a lose-lose situation for them.

*garra. probably,once agian,does not know what he is talking about.*

It's not really that you don't know what you're talking about, you just misunderstood the main argument of what we're talking about.

ShinobiKnight · 06-22-2008, 09:43 PM

Kudos to Mal for standing up for his religious beliefs in an intelligent manner and without irrevocably condemning everyone who doesn't agree with him to eternal suffering in Hell, as some Christians are sadly prone to doing. I also agree with pretty much all of Mal's last response to Sugoi. The Christians I know are some of the most cheerful, content, kind people I've ever met, which doesn't make sense by Sugoi's logic considering all the rules and regulations they have to live by.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SugoiNaruto162

How much more ignorant could you get?

In a scientifical study, it's been proven, multiple times, that the brains of homosexual individuals are identical to the brains of heterosexual individuals of the opposite sex. Since you seem to be unable to comprehend that statement, let me spell it out for you:

In animals, what attracts us to others are things called pheromones. And, since I'm betting you don't know what those are, here's a simple definition: A pheromone is a chemical which triggers a natural behavioral response in another member of the same species.

When it comes to sex pheromones, heterosexual men and women come in contact with pheromones of the opposite sex and feel attraction - which is a natural behavioral response. Being that homosexuals have the same brains as heterosexuals of the opposite sex, it's as though their brains are wired in reverse. Instead of feeling attraction from coming in contact with the opposite sexual pheromones, they feel attraction from coming in contact with sex pheromones from the same gender.

This is not a voluntary response. It is purely natural, wired into our brains from the day we were born, and there is NOTHING ANYONE CAN DO TO CHANGE IT.

Yeah, there are those people who get so "fed up" with the opposite sex that they "switch" to being homosexual. But let me tell you this - I can bet you that 95% or MORE of those individuals go back to being straight before long. And you know why? Because they can't FORCE themselves to be attracted to something they weren't made to be attracted to.

But 9/10 homosexuals are homosexuals by birth, and they cannot change who they are attracted to. Believe it or not, if people COULD change what gender they were attracted to, homosexuality would not be nearly as widespread as it is. As much as homosexuals get discriminated, hated, bashed, and persecuted for the way they were born, do you really think people would remain homosexual if they could choose to be otherwise? No. Because that doesn't make any fucking sense, does it? That'd be like choosing to be black during slavery, it's just fucking retarded of you to believe that.

Do yourself a favor and keep your prejudiced opinions to yourself. At least then you'll seem smart.

I have to disagree with that. There are people who would choose to be discriminated against, so they can cry foul whenever someone favors someone else over them in anything, whether it's getting a job, making friends, or picking teams for dodgeball in gym class. It's like black people who go "OMFG DATS RAYSIST" every time a white person gets something they wanted. They don't have to, but they do.

Also, I couldn't help noticing that your arguments are likewise prejudiced by your own sexual orientation, so don't call someone else out on that; you're even there.

This is a bit off-topic, but I'm curious: What about bisexuals?

Trey · 06-22-2008, 09:43 PM

I should've bet money Sugoi would've came "straight rippin'" into this thread.

Anyways, before anything else, that slavery/gay hate comparison was too extreme. I'd take being gay and shunned than in those fields with no human rights, but that's just me. I'm black and straight, so I'm probably biased. But she does have a point: it wouldn't be favorable to take rejection and self insecurity by choice. If you had the choice to be straight and accepted or gay and condemned, who in their right mind would choose the latter?

On point: no homosexuality isn't wrong. It'd be wrong if everyone was homo though, we'd die out. But that won't happen, hopefully. It's actually infringing on the gay individual's natural rights to treat them differently because they're gay. I personally don't mind them if they don't bother me, but I respect their sexual predisposition even if it's not something I would do.

It's interesting, though, how straight males find two lesbians getting it in "hawt" whereas two men in the same situation is downright revolting (at least to me).

It's also interesting to note females are more likely to be bi-curious at around puberty. I think that itself is a knock on the whole "you're born gay" theory. I mean, they choose to experiment with chicks, which means they are attracted to them, but the vast majority of them turn out straight. Of course they're are probably variables like trust issues or their relationships with other females, but it's something to think about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SK

This is a bit off-topic, but I'm curious: What about bisexuals?

Holy shit yo, I'm like psychic or someshit!

RNB · 06-22-2008, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalevolentSasuke

I don't think anyone has made any argument about homosexuality being "right", we've just said it's decided at birth. I once read an article by a Christian man who was born homosexual, and it said basically what you're suggesting: Homosexuality is a sin, and in order to live as pure a life as possible you must repress your homosexuality. He did it, it can be done, but (without God and prayer) you cannot simply change the way you were made.

Just for the record, I am Christian.

I am a Christian also. I cannot really identify myself with any set of beliefs though. I have been looking for a church who has a bit of my beliefs, but it is impossible. I have a more post-modern look at Christianity.

I do agree with you except I disagree that it can only be done through God, if you are only referring to the Christian one. I believe that the belief of any god can compel you to do anything for it if you believe in it enough.

Quote:

My question is, whether or not it is deemed to be "right" by the Bible or no, why should you sacrifice your comfort and happiness by forcing yourself to be something you're not? That's like saying to a heterosexual man, "Hey, heterosexuality is wrong. You'll go to hell. So you have to swear off women and fuck men, or else." A straight man would NEVER do that, and if he did, he would never be happy, because he would be forcing himself to become something he wasn't made to be.

First off I want to make this clear. I do not think anyone, but a Christian needs to follow the rules of the Bible.

Anyways, you don't know if he will be happier. While this may not be a good argument, I would want to follow my own philosophy. I would be much happier doing what I think is right than what is necessarily more attractive looking.

Quote:

What I don't get is why people don't understand that, YES, you can force yourself to suppress your NATURAL impulses and ignore your homosexuality, but you will NEVER be happy with yourself. And all because "homosexuality is a sin". Fuck it being a "sin", it's something homosexuals can't help no matter what they do. Even if they TRY to be heterosexual, that doesn't change the fact that they are not heterosexual. Forcing themselves to be heterosexual would be living a lie.

Tell me, would you be happy living a lie?
No, I didn't think so.

As I said before, you can be happy repressing your impulses. I would be much happier not killing someone because I am really mad at them, than going through with my impulse.

Second of all, no it would not be living a lie. Murders who go to jail and then become peacemakers are not living a lie by not murdering anymore. While it may be a bit of an exaggeration in the analogy, I think it makes sense.

Quote:

Actually, since there is nothing wrong with it considering it doesn't hurt anyone and is between consenting partners, it can be considered "right." Or just as "right" as anything else that people do that doesn't effect anyone else.

That is your definition of "right" though, which is up for debate.

Quote:

What I am saying is that if a homosexual person believed in God and wanted to live a life "glorifying to God", that person would have to do what I've said.

You cannot say that. The Bible's view on homosexually is one up for major interpretation.

Quote:

Since I am, though, I'd have to disagree with you because from my perspective it "hurts" the person themselves, just like any other sin would hurt themselves.

How does it hurt themselves though? Like, let us look into this further. Jesus says to follow all the commands of the Bible you must, "Love the Lord your God..." and "Love your neighbor as yourself." How is homosexuality breaking either of those in the way you are describing?

ShinobiKnight · 06-22-2008, 11:30 PM

^ In response to that last bit: There's a Bible verse somewhere in the Old Testament that says something like "No man may sleep with a man as he would a woman". There's another concerning lesbianism. I'll see if I can find them.
While it's true that the New Testament laws overrule some Old Testament ones, homosexuality isn't mentioned in the New Testament and is assumed to be unchanged. Although that may be interpreted differently, as I know a girl who has a gay couple in her church.

RNB · 06-23-2008, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinobiKnight

^ In response to that last bit: There's a Bible verse somewhere in the Old Testament that says something like "No man may sleep with a man as he would a woman". There's another concerning lesbianism. I'll see if I can find them.
While it's true that the New Testament laws overrule some Old Testament ones, homosexuality isn't mentioned in the New Testament and is assumed to be unchanged. Although that may be interpreted differently, as I know a girl who has a gay couple in her church.

Yes, I know that verse. My interpretation of that verse is that it is wrong, but the thing is that it could be talking about an old ritual that people used to do at that time. In the New Testament, when it mentions homosexuality, it is really talking about the ritual the Greeks did with their mentors. Apprentices (soldiers) would sleep with their trainer and women would sleep with other women when their husbands were at war.

So the verse can really be interpreted either way. I think all God really cares about is that you follow what your interpretation says because their is too much room for interpretation.

hesd · 06-23-2008, 12:58 PM

If there is a conclusive evidence that homosexuality is biologically rooted, Christianity should only have to admit either:

1) The God of the Bible should not have condemned homosexuality.
2) Biblical passages on homosexuality are misused; Bible is not a source of absolute truth for everything.

If God would say, "Yes, homosexuality is biological but those who were inflicted with this anomaly, this sin, should be able to change themselves with their willful prayers and repentance." I think this is a bit unfair. But then again, I'm not God. He could have higher order reasons. I'm confused!!! Thing is, I believe in God.

rustys · 06-23-2008, 02:10 PM

all i can say is wow<.< after reading all fo the posts I learned somthen new today<.<

06-23-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hesd

If there is a conclusive evidence that homosexuality is biologically rooted, Christianity should only have to admit either:

1) The God of the Bible should not have condemned homosexuality.
2) Biblical passages on homosexuality are misused; Bible is not a source of absolute truth for everything.

If God would say, "Yes, homosexuality is biological but those who were inflicted with this anomaly, this sin, should be able to change themselves with their willful prayers and repentance." I think this is a bit unfair. But then again, I'm not God. He could have higher order reasons. I'm confused!!! Thing is, I believe in God.

I doubt that any die-hard Christian would opt for option A, since it would mean that God did something wrong, and He is not supposed to be able to do anything wrong. So B is the most likely choice, but still, there's always option C: Deny these findings. C can also be paired with option D: Blame it on the Devil.

Ah yes, "God is beyond our comprehension." I find that amusing because we either have a good understanding of Him since there's an entire book on His teachings, or we have no clue and God is possibly thinking, "What are you humans doing?! I didn't want you guys to do that!"

Anywho, yay for more evidence that homosexuality is natural and not necessarily a choice (I still think there are instances when it is a choice, but it's not like a "Hey, I'm gonna be gay today!" all of a sudden).

ShinobiKnight · 06-23-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hesd

If there is a conclusive evidence that homosexuality is biologically rooted, Christianity should only have to admit either:

1) The God of the Bible should not have condemned homosexuality.
2) Biblical passages on homosexuality are misused; Bible is not a source of absolute truth for everything.

If God would say, "Yes, homosexuality is biological but those who were inflicted with this anomaly, this sin, should be able to change themselves with their willful prayers and repentance." I think this is a bit unfair. But then again, I'm not God. He could have higher order reasons. I'm confused!!! Thing is, I believe in God.

I laughed at #1. Christians believe that God is perfect and that He wrote the Bible Himself (through others); they can't say "Oops, sorry about that verse, we'll omit it from now on." 2 is no solution either; although Catholics already agree with it, the rest say the Bible is the only absolute source of truth since it is the only text said to be written by God.

God expects men to refrain from having sex until marriage, and to remain faithful to their wife afterwards. That goes against every man's natural raving sex drive, but He still holds them to it. Why then would it not be the same for homosexuals?
Like LN said, Christians would probably agree that Satan tainted the minds of men to try to cause them to sin, which is why we have homosexuality.

However, as Redneckboy pointed out, it could be that the Scriptures condemning homosexuality were misinterpreted. And honestly, if that turned out to be the case, I'd crack up. All this debate, all this controversy, and then we find out there was no reason for controversy.

06-22-2008, 07:00 PM	#17
Tsuna ♪S♥NE~소녀시대♪♪ Join Date: Jun 2005 Age: 21 Posts: 4,221 Thanks: 193 Thanked 2,472 Times in 1,140 Posts	Re: Gay brains are different My question is, whether or not it is deemed to be "right" by the Bible or no, why should you sacrifice your comfort and happiness by forcing yourself to be something you're not? That's like saying to a heterosexual man, "Hey, heterosexuality is wrong. You'll go to hell. So you have to swear off women and fuck men, or else." A straight man would NEVER do that, and if he did, he would never be happy, because he would be forcing himself to become something he wasn't made to be. What I don't get is why people don't understand that, YES, you can force yourself to suppress your NATURAL impulses and ignore your homosexuality, but you will NEVER be happy with yourself. And all because "homosexuality is a sin". Fuck it being a "sin", it's something homosexuals can't help no matter what they do. Even if they TRY to be heterosexual, that doesn't change the fact that they are not heterosexual. Forcing themselves to be heterosexual would be living a lie. Tell me, would you be happy living a lie? No, I didn't think so.

06-22-2008, 07:01 PM	#18
Miburo Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Gay brains are different Actually, since there is nothing wrong with it considering it doesn't hurt anyone and is between consenting partners, it can be considered "right." Or just as "right" as anything else that people do that doesn't effect anyone else. Also, well-fucking-done on this one, Kat.

06-22-2008, 07:02 PM	#19
Tsuna ♪S♥NE~소녀시대♪♪ Join Date: Jun 2005 Age: 21 Posts: 4,221 Thanks: 193 Thanked 2,472 Times in 1,140 Posts	Re: Gay brains are different Why, thank you. xD Means a lot coming from the debate king, lol.

06-22-2008, 11:30 PM	#25
ShinobiKnight Silberner Held Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Andorra Age: 20 Posts: 1,914 Thanks: 473 Thanked 84 Times in 56 Posts	Re: Gay brains are different ^ In response to that last bit: There's a Bible verse somewhere in the Old Testament that says something like "No man may sleep with a man as he would a woman". There's another concerning lesbianism. I'll see if I can find them. While it's true that the New Testament laws overrule some Old Testament ones, homosexuality isn't mentioned in the New Testament and is assumed to be unchanged. Although that may be interpreted differently, as I know a girl who has a gay couple in her church. __________________

06-23-2008, 12:58 PM	#27
hesd Academy Student Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nowhere near the Earth Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Gay brains are different If there is a conclusive evidence that homosexuality is biologically rooted, Christianity should only have to admit either: 1) The God of the Bible should not have condemned homosexuality. 2) Biblical passages on homosexuality are misused; Bible is not a source of absolute truth for everything. If God would say, "Yes, homosexuality is biological but those who were inflicted with this anomaly, this sin, should be able to change themselves with their willful prayers and repentance." I think this is a bit unfair. But then again, I'm not God. He could have higher order reasons. I'm confused!!! Thing is, I believe in God. __________________ been to my blog? http://everythingkimchi.blogspot.com/

06-23-2008, 02:10 PM	#28
rustys Genin Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: somwhere over the rainbow in virginina Age: 18 Posts: 158 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Gay brains are different all i can say is wow<.< after reading all fo the posts I learned somthen new today<.< __________________

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