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Old 01-08-2009, 05:09 PM   #76
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Re: Overrated/underrated Characters in Naruto

[QUOTE=Konnaha_yellow_flash;1633711]
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Originally Posted by Detcelfer View Post
Well, sasuke lived in konaha. A martial-village "mainly milatary". In times of war and crisis the rules change. Sasuke left of his own free will, "more from the encounter with itachi thatn oro". my point is naruto and the others were needed. Waht if the village had been attacked while they were away?
But thats a what if. Soldiers are attacked for rescuing friends all the time. One can not live in fear of what might be or could have been. One simply has to follow to the best of their ability what is right. Saving a friend sound as noble of a cause as any other.

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Well, you have no evidence KB wasnt trying, but suigetsus comment "we cant hold back, we have to fight to kill" sounds like team hawk were the ones holding back. It was just speculation. i mean, sasuke knows madara killed his clan so why help him? im almost absolutly sure madara is last on sasukes list for vengence. So, why help unless you have other intentions "IMO, gaining madaras trust and carrying on itachis work".
True, I can not directly ask KB directly. It was however made VERY clear that he underestimated his opponents. That strikes me as "not trying" his best would you not agree? Sasuke on the other hand had to bring back tangible results. So he either had to kill KB or knock him out. Either way he failed as with the rest of Sasuke's miserable exsistence. You look up fail in the dictionary and theres a picture of the Uchiha sysmbol and Sasuke crying.


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Just because I like sasuke doesnt make me a fan boy. Minatos my favorite character.i dont think its right to hate someone for such subjective reasons, but its a fictional character. Your free to hate as much as you want...
It does make you one when you can not even admit that Sasuke is the mirror image of Naruto's dark side. Its what he represents. They're the yin and yang of eachother - the peanutbutter and jelly. To deny this is to deny the whole exsistence of their character struggles.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:13 PM   #77
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Re: Overrated/underrated Characters in Naruto

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PnJ used to be the most used word on this forum reguarding Sasuke but i never heard it used on this forum reguarding naruto. However that word just annoys me period.
I must have stumbled onto the all praise Sasuke forum then. The worst place for me unfortunately. I don't like used for any character because obviously any new jutsu development is to move the plot along.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:17 PM   #78
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Re: Overrated/underrated Characters in Naruto

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I must have stumbled onto the all praise Sasuke forum then. The worst place for me unfortunately. I don't like used for any character because obviously any new jutsu development is to move the plot along.
If Naruto is not Sasuke's nemisis then I am. As Yellow will tell you all about
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:22 PM   #79
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Re: Overrated/underrated Characters in Naruto

^^

And you gave off the impression of being Sasuke's biggest fan. -Shock-

It's quite strange but my friend and I are on other sides of the camp. She's all about Sasuke and I'm staunch Naruto. It's odd because of all the comic and manga characters we argue about they always seem to be best friend/rivals etc. Of course I'm always right.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:22 PM   #80
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Re: Overrated/underrated Characters in Naruto

[QUOTE=Detcelfer;1633744][QUOTE=Konnaha_yellow_flash;1633711]

Quote:
But thats a what if. Soldiers are attacked for rescuing friends all the time. One can not live in fear of what might be or could have been. One simply has to follow to the best of their ability what is right. Saving a friend sound as noble of a cause as any other.
but were talking about shinobi here. Theyre not exactly known for being noble. Shinobis spy, assasinate and commit epsianage. BOT: Just as sasuke had the right to leave so did naruto try and bring him back. But just like sasukes decision, it was selfish IMO.


Quote:
True, I can not directly ask KB directly. It was however made VERY clear that he underestimated his opponents. That strikes me as "not trying" his best would you not agree? Sasuke on the other hand had to bring back tangible results. So he either had to kill KB or knock him out. Either way he failed as with the rest of Sasuke's miserable exsistence. You look up fail in the dictionary and theres a picture of the Uchiha sysmbol and Sasuke crying.
Well, IMO sasuke suceeded. He managed to bring back KB without actually capturing KB and putting his life in danger. Thus fitting sasukes philosiphy of not killing.


Quote:
It does make you one when you can not even admit that Sasuke is the mirror image of Naruto's dark side. Its what he represents. They're the yin and yang of eachother - the peanutbutter and jelly. To deny this is to deny the whole exsistence of their character struggles.
Yes, sasuke has darker qualities, but hes not the exact mirrror image. I would give that to pain, dont you agree. Naruto is the good wholesome hero that chages people with his kindness. Sasuke is the antihero who will do anything to have his vengence exept Kill! Thats my basic oppinion of the characters.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:30 PM   #81
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Re: Overrated/underrated Characters in Naruto

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Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
but were talking about shinobi here. Theyre not exactly known for being noble. Shinobis spy, assasinate and commit epsianage. BOT: Just as sasuke had the right to leave so did naruto try and bring him back. But just like sasukes decision, it was selfish IMO. .
Not known for being noble? So what are you saying about Konoha as a whole? What are you saying about 3rd, or the hokages in general, J-man or frankly all of Konoha. Now you're stretching the limits of your argument. You can argue the boundries of selfishness all you like but Naruto had a platonic love for Sasuke that did not involve entirely his own measure of happiness but that of the safety and worry he had for his friend. He said "I wont let you go to Oro" - or something similar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnaha_yellow_flash View Post
Well, IMO sasuke suceeded. He managed to bring back KB without actually capturing KB and putting his life in danger. Thus fitting sasukes philosiphy of not killing..
But he did not know that and if he did its not been presented to us. So you're only guessing once again. Shame on you Yellow, shame! I thought we put Myth tactics behind us.


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Yes, sasuke has darker qualities, but hes not the exact mirrror image. I would give that to pain, dont you agree. Naruto is the good wholesome hero that chages people with his kindness. Sasuke is the antihero who will do anything to have his vengence exept Kill! Thats my basic oppinion of the characters.
Yeah, if Sasuke could hurt a fly that WOULD be amazing wouldn't it? But I'd never give him that much credit to his name.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:36 PM   #82
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Re: Overrated/underrated Characters in Naruto

The mirror image argument is always an interesting one. I've just completed an essay on shadowing techniques for writers which is essentially what the mirror image argument is. The only little nit pick that I have with it being applied to Naruto and Sauske is that I can't see Naruto wanting to do some of the things Sasuke has done. Perhaps Kyuubi might try to influence him into betraying the village like he did when he tried to influence him into releasing his seal but I struggle to see Naruto as himself thinking that way.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:38 PM   #83
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Re: Overrated/underrated Characters in Naruto

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The mirror image argument is always an interesting one. I've just completed an essay on shadowing techniques for writers which is essentially what the mirror image argument is. The only little nit pick that I have with it being applied to Naruto and Sauske is that I can't see Naruto wanting to do some of the things Sasuke has done. Perhaps Kyuubi might try to influence him into betraying the village like he did when he tried to influence him into releasing his seal but I struggle to see Naruto as himself thinking that way.
Ok, well my metaphore was not completely accurate. I should have said "that muddied mirror"... cracked, warped, aged and runned, ect.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:42 PM   #84
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Re: Overrated/underrated Characters in Naruto

[QUOTE=Detcelfer;1633794]
Quote:
Not known for being noble? So what are you saying about Konoha as a whole? What are you saying about 3rd, or the hokages in general, J-man or frankly all of Konoha. Now you're stretching the limits of your argument. You can argue the boundries of selfishness all you like but Naruto had a platonic love for Sasuke that did not involve entirely his own measure of happiness but that of the safety and worry he had for his friend. He said "I wont let you go to Oro" - or something similar.
The point I was making is that they are shinobi! Not samurai with the code of bushido or anyother type of warrior, but shinobi. Thats who they are. Being noble and having feelings is suppost to be looked down on, not the latter. BOT: I understand narutos reason, but I question his motives. Also, how could naruto believe sasuke was just goign to give himself to Oro? I thought naruto knew sasuke better than that. "shrugs"?


Quote:
But he did not know that and if he did its not been presented to us. So you're only guessing once again. Shame on you Yellow, shame! I thought we put Myth tactics behind us.
Ok, thats an insult! myth states his oppinions as facta dn I make alot of effort to show that my oppinion is just that, my oppinion. well, you seem to be looking at this as if it were black and white. But hasnt Kishi shown us its not that simple "itachi fiasco!".

Quote:
Yeah, if Sasuke could hurt a fly that WOULD be amazing wouldn't it? But I'd never give him that much credit to his name
Lol, you hate sasuke with the fire of 1000 suns!
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:42 PM   #85
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Re: Overrated/underrated Characters in Naruto

It's Sasuke's fault anyway for being such a ketsunoana. He cracked the damn mirror. That's seven years of bad luck for him.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:46 PM   #86
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Re: Overrated/underrated Characters in Naruto

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The mirror image argument is always an interesting one. I've just completed an essay on shadowing techniques for writers which is essentially what the mirror image argument is. The only little nit pick that I have with it being applied to Naruto and Sauske is that I can't see Naruto wanting to do some of the things Sasuke has done. Perhaps Kyuubi might try to influence him into betraying the village like he did when he tried to influence him into releasing his seal but I struggle to see Naruto as himself thinking that way.
i guess i dont see sasuke betraying the village...and especially now learning that info madara gave sasuke whether it's true or not...but sasuke's ties to the village vanished when his clan was murdered...emotionally he lost the ability to form ties with anyone after that...at least until naruto came along...i think sasuke is able to form individaul ties but when it comes to being loyal to a village i dont see that...at least not now
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:51 PM   #87
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Re: Overrated/underrated Characters in Naruto

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i guess i dont see sasuke betraying the village...and especially now learning that info madara gave sasuke whether it's true or not...but sasuke's ties to the village vanished when his clan was murdered...emotionally he lost the ability to form ties with anyone after that...at least until naruto came along...i think sasuke is able to form individaul ties but when it comes to being loyal to a village i dont see that...at least not now
For me he betrayed the village the moment he started his journey towards Orochimaru's lair. He knew exactly what Orochimaru had tried to do to the village. He cared nothing for Naruto which was a complete turnaround from his comment of wanting to never see his important people die. To me that is betrayal. Then I guess I would see it that way as I can't stand the little swine.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:52 PM   #88
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Re: Overrated/underrated Characters in Naruto

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i guess i dont see sasuke betraying the village...and especially now learning that info madara gave sasuke whether it's true or not...but sasuke's ties to the village vanished when his clan was murdered...emotionally he lost the ability to form ties with anyone after that...at least until naruto came along...i think sasuke is able to form individaul ties but when it comes to being loyal to a village i dont see that...at least not now
I agree, but sasuke after his clan was destroyed became a loner. Always wanting to be left alone and to his own buisness. Sasukes behavior in part two just shows his loner mentality is starting to change alittle. Actually chosing to have help and be with others willfully, "team hebi aka hawk". Maybe after another time skip sasuke will be ready to settle down in a village.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:59 PM   #89
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Re: Overrated/underrated Characters in Naruto

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I agree, but sasuke after his clan was destroyed became a loner. Always wanting to be left alone and to his own buisness. Sasukes behavior in part two just shows his loner mentality is starting to change alittle. Actually chosing to have help and be with others willfully, "team hebi aka hawk". Maybe after another time skip sasuke will be ready to settle down in a village.

This is what happens when you let essentric humanists out in the open people. Lets all follow Yellow_Flash's example. The Unibomber just wanted to be left alone, so let him study up on making bombs by himself without human interaction. Thats what Sasuke needs, just a little time left alone so he can fester like a cancer with improper treatment and get his "revenge" whatever that may be or who it'll involve.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:08 PM   #90
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Re: Overrated/underrated Characters in Naruto

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This is what happens when you let essentric humanists out in the open people. Lets all follow Yellow_Flash's example. The Unibomber just wanted to be left alone, so let him study up on making bombs by himself without human interaction. Thats what Sasuke needs, just a little time left alone so he can fester like a cancer with improper treatment and get his "revenge" whatever that may be or who it'll involve.
Comparing sasuke to the unibomber? Thats kinda pushing it isnt it? I mean sasuke was left alone with Oro for two and a half years and he seems to be doing alot better than expected.

But by your own example, didnt christan knights "sp" who, murdered people have good intentions? Because of differance of oppinion they murdered. Is naruto any better to have not respected sasukes decision to be left alone, instead naruto "with his good intentions" was willing to do anything to get sasuke back. Can you see my point?

These characters are not black and white, IMO.

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