Mystik

I dont think madara beat the Minato but i think madara is the closes one on his level. I mean Madara is obviously strong because of the way Minato talked about him.

Konnaha_yellow_flash

Agreed! Nagato/pain isnt about to have a change of heart because a child tells him hes wrong. Nagato is the Makoto Shishio of naruto in that his mind is made up and hes willing to die for his ideals. Kindness and mercy for nagato will just get naruto impalled when he drops his guard IMO.

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People live relying on they're Knowledge and Perception, and thus are bound to them.....
Those Boundaries are what they tend to accept as "Reality".....
However..... Knowledge and Perception are both ambiguous....
so "Reality" could be nothing more....
then an illusion....

ITACHI UCHIHA

Myth

I agree if minato said this then it must be something big.. and i seriously doubt they fought minato isn;t an idiot if he saw his movements being countered he would know that it was a sharingan user.

I think he meant something way bigger and deeper when he said that.

liondemon

I think u are overlooking Naruto's and Pain's conversation and Naruto and 4th conversation about Jiraiya's beliefs and Pain. Also, this whole story is about changing for the better from the worst. If Naruto and Pain can call a truce, Pain will be left alone. He runs the Rain village and Konoha has contributed to his clansmens struggles and death and pain for years. If Pain were to come to see it Naruto's way, it would be like any Peace treaty between Konoha and any other village, especially if u put the Rain Village's instability in perspective. If Pain would come around, Im sure the Rinnegan could ressurect the village in no time. I dont expect all that to happen but i do expect Naruto to pull a Zabuza on Negato with the "right answer" to Pain's question, but I expect Negato to die somehow.

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Ninja Assassin

Tzu Men

Definitely as Jiraiya said that Minato always planned things ahead so much. This has been shown clearly with Minato's reappearance now of course, but what I think Minato meant was that Madara was able to out manoeuvre him in his tactics, not necessarily in a literal fight.

Myth

also minato enver said "he saw through my moves" he said"he saw through everything i did" but didn't say when or where or how... Im guessing he really did mean that perhaps he had plans to take down akatsuki and madara figured all of this out and attacked while he had a chance..

One thing is for sure if mianto says s powerful ninja it def means someone worth looking out for...

Tzu Men

Yeah.
Maybe Minato was going to destroy Akatsuki and Madara dealt with this by sending the Kyuubi at Konoha. He might have predicted that Minato would have to sacrifice his life in order to save Konoha, and thus at the same time as setting up the fall of the Uchiha clan, he prevented Minato from taking action against his plans.

I mean, I think Madara is going to be insanely powerful but I suspect that Minato could have destroyed his plans if he was given the opportunity to attack Akatsuki's members. Apart from Pain and Madara I don't think any of the current Akatsuki members we have seen so far could combat the Flying Thunder God technique, especially if combined with any other techniques Minato could have known that we don't know about yet.

liondemon

Akatsuki was formed after that. I know Madara didnt fight the 4th, but the 4th would use other jutsu on Kyuubi, or to defend attacks, or to quickly move others to safety since the Kyuubi was destroying the village and many died because of that. Everything the 4th physically did, which would mean that Kyuubi was a step ahead of Minato. Madara had to get close enough to see the fourth to see his moves, unlike Negato. That is why Madara had to wear a mask so that nobody would recognize him.

Making the 4th seal Kyuubi may have been his plan all along, just to have a reason to get Pain under his wing, to capture all the Buuji for him and seal them in one safe place where he can take them out to play with them when he wants, and has somewhere to put them back when he's done. Kyuubi was likely the last Buuji to be sealed. He couldnt just keep his tied down like the 1st Hokage. Where would Kyuubi go when Madara ran out of chakra and had to rest?

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Ninja Assassin

Mystik

I agree cause Minato seemed really worried about him. He is also part of the reason i think Minato wanted to keep the fact Naruto was his son a secret.

Myth

But that just it minato didn't say anything about his movements being seen he said "He saw through everything i did". He didn't say what madara saw through but im guessing it was his plans on akatsuki by getting rid of them. Minato prob spotted him when he got face to face with the kyuubi and maybe saw a glimpse of him... The fact that mianto even knew about akatsuki prob sustains his words more into that "madara saw through his plans on taking them down" and acted on the chance he got.. Minato was very smart as jiraiya described him that no other ninja like him has ever been born.

But what madara had on minato was age and lots of it all these things will be revealed soon.

hahaha kyuubi is still crying about what mianto did to him.

liondemon

Madara started Akatsuki after Kyuubi attack, according to Itachi.

That was funny how Kyuubi just kept unterrupting. Minato kept joking about it. Maybe Naruto gets that free joking spirit from pops

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Ninja Assassin

Tzu Men

I think Akatsuki was already around by Minato's death.

Minato shows that he is aware of Akatsuki here: http://onemanga.com/Naruto/440/10/

Orochimaru left the organisation when Naruto was 5: http://onemanga.com/Naruto/238/18/ He was presumably in it for some time before Itachi joined in order for Sasori to recall working with him.

Jiraiya only ever said that Orochimaru "joined" the organisation, he never indicates that he was a founding member. http://onemanga.com/Naruto/143/06/

Akatsuki had one or two different members here who presumably Deidara or Hidan replaced here: http://onemanga.com/Naruto/238/19-20/ Although Deidara considered himself to have replaced Orochimaru he never got his ring (http://onemanga.com/Naruto/140/06/) and so must have taken it from someone else. Both of them make comments about being new in their duration in the manga, for instance: http://onemanga.com/Naruto/329/11/. Also Kazuku claimed to have killed his partners before Hidan XD.

I think this sort of stuff points to Akatsuki being formed before Minato's death.

If Itachi says otherwise I'm not so sure but with Madara's cunning it seems to make more sense that he planned/organised everything including Akatsuki out before his first step which was attacking Konoha.

Myth

Yeah after the first 1 vs hashirama. here it is.http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...6/page011.html the page before he says how madara lost to shodaime then formed akatsuki.

TheSixthHokage

Alright, there seems to be a popular theory that Pain will be spared by Naruto and killed by Madara, um... that's actually a great theory but I hate the thought of it happening... Pain killed Jiraiya, at least crippled Kakashi and Hinata and decimated Konoha, he deserves death. Absolutely no mercy...

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IgnisV

Nagato/Pain is a horrid person; anyone who has seen the atrocities he has committed could not deny that. However, as horrible a person he is, the manga is hinting at him simply being a crusader on the wrong path for peace. Whether he lives or dies, is another thing, but will he have a change of heart before/after the battle with Naruto? I believe he might, I'm not convinced, but he just might.