ShinobiKnight

^ LOL. Obama does one thing some people disagree with, so it was a bad idea to vote for him? And now you're telling us "I told you so"? Grow up, kid.

__________________

shippuuden101

^ the worst has still yet to come

__________________

Kina

I hate people like you. All gloom and doom. Why can't you just be hopeful that President Obama will be the best president ever? Believe it or not, he's doing his damnedest and I respect that, even if I didn't really like the guy. However, I wasn't crazy about McCain, either.

__________________

Miburo

Gotta disagree with you, SK. And not just because you're a noob either.

Our school systems are mostly a joke. I work with school teachers who tell me the shit they have to put up with in regards to policies and curriculum they have to enforce. That no child left behind bullshit fucks shit up, hard. A school receives money based on how well they do on those standardized tests you guys take. For you, I'm assuming it's the PSSA's, yeah? The curriculum chosen by the schools is prepared specifically to prepare for that test. The idea is that the school receives more money. Curriculum shouldn't be decided based on what will make the school the most dough. It should be made based on what kids need to fucking know.

Not only that, but classes are designed so that it's nearly impossible to fail. Because tons of kids failing means "kids r getting left behind lolololol." Two of the coaches I work with are teachers from two separate middle schools, and both of them have told me that they've been told by the higher ups that they cannot fail a certain amount of kids. They have to pass a certain percentage no matter what. They've complained about how the kids they teach don't know what they should because the teachers before were forced to pass kids, and that they can't teach the curriculum within the deadline because they have to backtrack and reteach shit everyone in that class should already be able to do. This shit is common. Teachers from tons of different schools (most wrestling coaches are teachers) have said the same exact thing. The polices teachers have to deal with are ridiculous, and kids are dumber for that shit.

Also, come on. School is a joke. Any retard can pass so long as they do the work and put in some effort, even if they don't understand shit. I've been in tons of classes where you could fail every test and still pass with a C because of homework and class participation. Even college classes I'm taking work that way. In my abnormal psychology class the average test scores for the last two tests were a fucking 36% and a 48% (Midterm). And that's with my fucking 98/100 and 100/100 test scores thrown into that average, with 18 student class size. Those fuckers must have failed, hard. Yet the average total grade in the class is a 86% due to weighted class participation grades. That means those dumbshits in my class don't understand anything, but they show up and talk about stupid shit alot so they pass. That's retarded.

School as it is now doesn't mean shit except that you're willing to put in the minimum effort it takes to go and try, sorta. I'm all for that shit changing.

Edit: Actually, I personally don't give a shit because I'm not retarded. So it doesn't really effect me. I can compete with foreigners, no problem, because I'm a manly mother fucking American.

ShinobiKnight

lawl, he red-repped me for telling him to grow up. Seriously, grow a pair, kid.

@Mibs: By "taking school seriously", I meant "showing up, doing the homework, etc." In my school, a lot of people don't even do that. I agree that you can take bad notes, do bad on tests, and still pass. Your bit about teachers having to pass a certain number of students supports my argument, since it would contribute to kids thinking they can pass without doing anything. As far as I know, teachers can't just throw in extra credit to pass you; if you do next to nothing, they must fail you.

However, I must admit you know more about the education system than me. I've noticed much of our work being devoted to PSSA preparation, but I didn't know the entire curriculum is based around it. I agree with you there: it should be based on what kids need to know. But I don't see that changing unless they stop basing funding on test scores, which is unlikely.

Also, competing with foreigners is no problem for me personally either.

__________________

Miburo

Yeah. The point is that our education system obviously is less then adequate in educating people if you can pass without having a firm grasp of the curriculum. I don't even give a shit about the people who fail. There are people who pass that don't know what they're suppose to know. That's not good.

Compare it to a karate dojo or some shit. Let's say you get a ranking belt every 4 months so long as you show up and put in the effort, even if you're not that great at fighting. So you get your blackbelt after 3 years. Does that blackbelt mean anything at all? Of course not, because you still suck at fighting. Same thing here.

If you don't grasp the shit you're being taught, then your grades and level of education mean jack shit. Making our educational system a joke. It doesn't adequately show one's actual amount of education. It just shows how many years you spent going to school, and that you were willing to put the rather small amount of effort in that is necessary for you to not fail. That's pretty much it.

That's why I always lol at the retards who try using their grades to counter-argue against your claim that they're fucking stupid. Because any retard who thinks what grades they get in highschool is a good judge of intelligence is fucking stupid.

And highly unfortunate. We have the resources to be a much more intelligent country as a whole. They're just grossly mismanaged.

narutojm

obama is just helping us americans to compete against foreign kids because of our laziness

__________________
member of jiraiya fc
member of toad sage naruto:konoha orange flash fc
owner of uchiha fc
owner of wagashi fc
member of hitsuguya fc
owner of T.B.O fc
proud member of hentai fc
owner of wanegan fc
owner of straw hat pirates fc
www.animeworld.forumsland.com

ShinobiKnight

I agree 100% with everything you said, Miburo. But to keep on topic, do you think longer school hours like Obama's proposing will actually do anything to make the necessary changes?

__________________

Miburo

Nope, not that alone anyway. But it'll rage kids, which makes me smile. So I'm all for it.

Edit: Well, actually, depending on what they do with that extra time, it could be pretty damn helpful.

zer0systm

The general attention span for someone learning something is 45 minutes before they start to lose interest, that is why your classes run for that time, Increasing the time at school probably isn't the smartest idea, they just have to reshape the way they go about education the kids, longer hours at school will just result in longer classes which will more than likely result in kids learning the same as they are now or less even.
Funding should be dumped evenly among schools, why boost the resources of a school with the most smart kids (I'm not sure if I'm remembering Mibz post bout the way funding is handed out correctly, if not just disregard.) instead of giving it to the school that has to bring their kids level of education up to scratch.

tl;dr: extending school hours will have next to no effect, fix the education system.

__________________
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Babyface BK

American schooling and testing system is retarded, some parts anyway.

__________________

Miburo

@Zero-It depends on how they handle it. Block scheduling and longer classes are relatively useless, I agree. Using that time for new mandatory classes wouldn't be that bad though. Imagine if something like a debating class was mandatory in schools starting at a relatively young age (assuming logic over pure persuasiveness was emphasized)? That would have the potential of greatly increasing the non-dumbassery level of society as a whole, if coupled with a higher standard necessary to pass classes. Among other things, of course.

If most of society grasped the concepts of logical and rational thought to a decently high degree, then there would potentially be a fuckload less stupid ass shit going on. And that's just one extra class added to the overall curriculum. That would be totally worth adding an extra 40 minutes to a pretty damn short workday as far as I'm concerned, yo.

RNB

I would like to point out another thing, which might have already been pointed out. School is tyranny on the true education, life's education. I learn things that are more valuable from my own education from books and such. Having a teacher assign work and then point things out to you is not helping. Really, the main point I think schools should work on is life-long learning, or a commitment to learning anything you feel like for the rest of your life. Too many people get out of college, go to school to be a lawyer, and then end up serving in stupid court cases the rest of their lives. That is because our society downgrades the individual and tells him that he can't do anything without everyone else. However, many men have succeeded with their own mind. Polymaths aren't polymaths from birth. You work for it. That is your own personal achievement. Our society tells us that you "are so lucky" for being that smart. That is what the school system teaches when they like to screw the smart kid by forcing him to work in a group of people who sit around and do nothing because "everyone should be equal."

__________________
"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus

Miburo

Could you elaborate on this, RNB? Such as what exactly you propose schools should teach. I'm not saying you're wrong or disagreeing with you or trying to be a dick (Yet. XD). I'm actually interested in what you're saying. I also disagree with some things society sometimes suggests, such as wealth = success and whatnot. So I might actually agree with you on this shit. Maybe.

RNB

Classical education is valuable in some areas such as up to middle school. I think that around 6th or 7th grade the education style should change though. It should become much more independent because you live life, by yourself. You don't always have a teacher there watching over your shoulder evaluating your decisions and correcting your mistakes. So when many people get out of this system they are not taught for the real world. Only some people learn early on that this life is lived independently. School does not teach the idea that one should think for himself.

So around 6th or 7th grade the education should change and become radically more independent. Some kids may not survive in the independent environment and may latch on to the classical style, which could be a problem. So whether this system should be for public education or not is a decision for another time.

There is a college called St. John's college. That type of education is how I think education should be. The kids learn in a very democratic and independent environment, in which the teacher only guides the class and doesn't actually teach. The kids learn from the books that actually produced the theories. So instead of opening up some textbook to page 300 to learn about some physics theory, they read Einstein's actual books.

Here are some links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_books

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._John%27s_College,_U.S.

http://www.stjohnscollege.edu/


Again, I stress that I don't know if this is a good idea for public education. I think it is a great idea for private education though.

__________________
"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus