Miburo

Who's this directed towards?

There's a difference between not being 100% effective and being completely ineffective/causing a negative effect. Condoms do offer protection against AIDS and other STDs. They certainly don't make it worse. The pope is saying they don't help at all, and actually make shit worse.

Condom use would prevent people from getting AIDS. It would help stop the spread of the disease. It would save lives. These are indisputable facts. The pope is saying the exact fucking opposite. People may needlessly die because they are being told false information. What is so hard to understand?

So you're saying using condoms wouldn't help? You're disregarding scientific fact? The pope is wrong about condoms, plain and simple.

If a guy with AIDS has sex with 100 girls without a condom they (for arguments sake) will all acquire AIDS and die. If a guy has sex with 100 girls with a condom then 90 of them will not get AIDS. So using a condom would save 90 lives.

It doesn't make it worse. It definitely helps. Is it better than not having sex at all? Of course not. I never said it was. And the pope's argument wasn't "Condoms help, but abstinence is the best solution." It was that "Condoms don't do shit and only make shit worse." I've said that tons of times already, but you guys seem to keep ignoring that part. You don't tell uneducated people that condoms don't work when they do most of the fucking time. Like I just said above, it would save lives. Expecting everyone to just all of a sudden stop having sex is naive and, quite frankly, fucking stupid. At least if those people use condoms that cuts down the spread of the disease dramatically, and saves lives. Telling them condoms don't work will most likely result in people needlessly dying. You don't get more irresponsible then that, seriously.

Vanity

At these over-all ridiculous shenanigans
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
This argument has gotten ridiculous and off track, and you guys are hardly on point anymore.

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Miburo

The discussion is over a joke news story that is based on what the pope actually said. What he said was just as ridiculous as what the news story was suggesting. Except it didn't put the lives of hundreds of thousands of people at risk by spreading false information. But, since I like you, I'll go back to cracking jokes about how goddamn retarded the pope is if you'd like. Either is fine with me, really. =D

Also, I didn't use any biblical text, so that would make it kind of hard for me to misuse it. Wouldn't it? Hell, I wasn't even talking about religion at all. I'd be saying the same thing if someone posted the president saying the same exact thing the pope said. You religious people sure get sore easily, I don't even have to talk about religion and the butthurt still pours in. = /

Vanity

I wasn't talking about YOUR shenanigans <_<

I just realized it looks like I was picking on things you said.[I've been living off very little sleep, bare with me ; ;]

That was at every other moron. o.o
Edit~ I quoted you for emphasis. <.<... the hostility really did look like it was towards you. I apologize~

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Miburo

Oh, lol. I get what you're saying now. No worries. = )

<3

Vanity

<3

//onsubject LOLPOPEISAMORON

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Think.

Tanya=^^=

You still haven't answered my question. There's plenty of information accesible in most countries about the use and benefits of condoms for the general public, but the number of cases keeps rising...Condoms have been around World War II; AIDS first appeared in the 80's. Have the number of cases decreased? No they haven't, and there's a lot of sub registration of cases. If people would analyze objectively the effects of a "safe sex" culture it woudn't take too long to see that it has backfired completely. There's plenty information, campaigns and whatever you wanna add, but there's also a ridiculously big sex industry. So people are told to be sexually responsible but casual and irresponsible sex is displayed in movies, tv shows, magazines, etc. How senseless is that???

Nowadays we have so much education about responsible sexuality and a higher number of pregnant teenagers. 11-13 year old girls will have free acces to the morning after pill in England...AND PEOPLE HAVE THE NERV OF SAYING THAT THAT'S ENCOURAGING RESPONSIBLE SEXUALITY????? Yeah that's some real responsability, the world has reached a point where a little girl can use a contraceptive method endorsed by the goverment BECAUSE PEOPLE REFUSE TO ACCEPT THAT ABSTINENCE IS THE BEST METHOD. Post modern culture is all about pleasure and following only one's needs no matter the cost. Rules are unwanted, moral is dated and people who think that not having sex is the best solution are seen as stupid or short-minded.

We don't have to go that far to see that the use of condoms will not solve the problem from it's base. What would happen if there weren't any condoms at all? Would people still have sex as much as they have now? Would they? Knowing all about STD's and AIDS? I think people would keep their pants on before taking any actions. The reason people have so much sex is because they know they can rely on condoms.

People have also forgotten about a key factor in this discussion. Most people in Africa don't have enough money to even buy a condom...They don't even have enough money to buy food and feed their children. So it can't be said this is a viable solution to stop AIDS spreading in Africa. Everyone knows that in health matters THE CHANGE IN HABITS is the base for a succesful treatment.

So, what would be the most cost-effective strategy? ABSTINENCE, If stupid ideas such as an adult magazine gets sold, I don't see how is it so impossible to promote abstinence as an effective measure in public health.

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RNB

This sentence alone tells me that you care much more about the act of having sense then the actual "sinful" desire. Of course, this view is completely opposite the man you worshiped who stressed that the heart is what counts.

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Demi-God

See the problem with that method?

Tanya=^^=

I was trying to point the abstinence as an effective method against AIDS or STD'S OUTSIDE religion; many people think that christians only promote abstinence because having sex is "sinful". To promote abstinence as a viable method in public health (and for people in general) we can't take religion in account. It's not about forcing people to practice it because of religious aspects.

I do not care more about "making sense" more than the teachings of Jesus...I was pointing that His teachings DO HAVE a place in our world's reality and are actually reasonable, even for those who don't believe in Him.

Here's something to prove abstinence's effectivity over condoms:

Condoms: 90% effective
Abstinence: 100% effective.

THAT CAN'T BE DENIED.

There's no worst blind that the one who doesn't want to see...

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La princesa que creía en cuentos de hadas

Miburo

What does any of this have to do with what the pope said? Again, he said condoms are not only ineffective, but make shit worse. Show me some evidence that this is the case, or shut the hell up and admit that the pope is being an irresponsible dipshit.

He never said "Condoms help, but abstinence is the best solution." So any argument about how abstinence is better is irrelevant. Is that really that hard to understand?

Obviously.

See that percentage after condoms? That's a 90%. Not a 0%. Not a negative percentage. A 90%. That means when someone with AIDS has sex with a condom on with ten people, nine of them aren't getting AIDS (for argument's sake, of course.).

This information, that you provided, conflicts with what the pope said. Condoms do help. They aren't ineffective. They don't make shit worse. People using condoms will save lives. Telling them they don't work is irresponsible.

Mmm. Irony.

Also, tits or GTFO.

Freshgrease

I wouldn't know from first hand experience, but I'd take a 10% risk of getting some disease over a 100% chance of staying a virgin.

__________________

Nakaichiro

This pretty much said it all right there Mib's. Condom's help, they are not the final answer or the best way, but they help. The reason that people in Africa don't have access to condoms is because there are not enough world leaders that support free condoms for 3rd world countries. Changing the mindset of the people in Africa to abstain is something that will take too long. Trust me they are pretty set in their ways and traditions.
If we did try it the popes way, there would be no-one left in Africa by the time they were all convinced to abstain from sexual relations.
Condoms help, they do not make things worse, end of discussion.
To say other wise is wrong and irresponsible, irrespective of who you are or what you stand for.

sauskewalmart

Seriously, wtf do we care... its africa... lettim get aids....

im going to burger king...

Tanya=^^=

1. Yeah, a person who travels the world to spread messages of hope and tries to make a difference in the world is a dipshit...The Pope will ALWAYS speak in the spirit of Jesus's teachings and the Bible. People need to see where his words are coming from but no one gets that.

You ask for a proof that condoms make things worst...I repeat, if they do help then why the number of cases of AIDS and STD's keep rising??? Condoms have been developed to be effective against this diseases, that's for sure, but reality shows that the number of cases keeps rising as a result of an irresponsible sexuality. Being sexually responsible is not about putting on a condom in every one night stand, it's about sex in the adecuate time, in the right age, maturity and the right person, but no one wants to hear about self control because that's being puritane...God help us to use the one thing that differences us from animals: rational intelligence and will power.

2. You took my words out of context. My reply wasn't addressed to you.

3. Again, 100% is better than 90%. 90% means 1 out of 10 persons can get AIDS or STD's. 100% Means 0 of 10 people can't get this diseases.

The only method endorsed by the Pope to prevent this diseases and for birth control is abstinence, it's implied that if he doesn't support condoms he supports abstinence.

My first argument about pregnant teenagers and the impact of the sex industry was used to emphasize that the act itself of having irresponsible sex, no matter the outcome (meaning a pregnancy, STD's or AIDS) HAS THE SAME RISK. It is clear that the sexual education (apparently improved and complete in content and practical knowledge) hasn't had the impact it was intended to.

Just take a look back...Before it was a taboo having sex before marriage or to have multiple sex partners and sexuality was seen as something "sinful" but there where NO cases of AIDS (it first appeared in the 80's), why? because people had moral reasons for abstinence; it wasn't of course, a healthy way to look at sexuality, but, in the end, people who didn't have as much sex simply didn't get as sick.

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