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Old 08-22-2009, 05:03 PM   #91
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Re: Naruto 461 Prediction / Spoiler discussions

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Originally Posted by Isomorphic View Post
A good one, pretty well thought out and interesting.

The thing I most have issue with it is



Both Madara and his brother gained their MKS long before any chronological reference to the Nine tailes.386-06
He also was taking the damage(and went blind) from of over use of the MKS before the Fox's introduction.386-07
Well, the Bijuu are supposed to be immortal demons, so it isn't unlikely that they've been around since the very beginning, even earlier than the Six-Realms Sage. But, his theory makes the Kyuubi sound like a noble and benevolent creature. Wha--? The Kyuubi has no respect for anyone, only hate. It doesn't feel guilt or compassion, as far as we've seen, just anger and bloodlust. Even the 1 guy who managed to effectively defeat him without any ability to control him, the Fox only despises him with every part of his being. The only reason it even gives Naruto any of its power is either self-preservation or attempting to free itself.
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Old 08-22-2009, 05:07 PM   #92
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Re: Naruto 461 Prediction / Spoiler discussions

^Agreed I am sure the Fox has been around long before. However if it was as jeanericuser's theory suggests I would have to figure that Madara's ability to control the fox would have been mention as part of his more distant history. Not just the two attacks on Konoha.

Edit: I also agree with your point of the Fox being a monstrous figure, not a creature to be working on the side of good.
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Old 08-22-2009, 05:38 PM   #93
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Re: Naruto 461 Prediction / Spoiler discussions

Personally, I love the theory. Props to you, sir!
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Old 08-22-2009, 05:44 PM   #94
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Re: Naruto 461 Prediction / Spoiler discussions

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obito had a million boulders crush him whoever thinks obito is the guy behind the mask is a fucking idiot...
Yes, but Madara was killed by the First. How does it make one claim more valid than the other? If Madara was Tobi, we would've AT LEAST seen his unique EMS. We saw it on Madara in the flashback, but never on Tobi. Kishi also deliberately obscured the details of his face with shadows as he removed his mask. There's a reason for that.

Also... Kakashi, Gaara, Shizune, Fukasaku, Orochimaru, etc. Death doesn't mean everything in this series.
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Old 08-22-2009, 05:50 PM   #95
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Re: Naruto 461 Prediction / Spoiler discussions

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Yes, but Madara was killed by the First. How does it make one claim more valid than the other? If Madara was Tobi, we would've AT LEAST seen his unique EMS. We saw it on Madara in the flashback, but never on Tobi. Kishi also deliberately obscured the details of his face with shadows as he removed his mask. There's a reason for that.

Also... Kakashi, Gaara, Shizune, Fukasaku, Orochimaru, etc. Death doesn't mean everything in this series.
We've seen a picture of how Madara "died." He got impaled by Hashirama. That's it. Considering that the EMS is supposed to make him IMMORTAL, that is NOTHING compared to Obito being completely crushed. Also, getting impaled would not COMPLETELY DESTROY HIS BODY. You really think Obito lived to tell the tale of how the right side of his body had every single bone, and every internal organ crushed? Odds are, Hashirama just left Madara to die at the Valley of the End, and when he returned to Konoha, claimed that Madara had died because he assumed that Madara was dead.
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Old 08-22-2009, 06:48 PM   #96
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Re: Naruto 461 Prediction / Spoiler discussions

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Originally Posted by Emissary of Justice View Post
Yes, but Madara was killed by the First. How does it make one claim more valid than the other? If Madara was Tobi, we would've AT LEAST seen his unique EMS. We saw it on Madara in the flashback, but never on Tobi. Kishi also deliberately obscured the details of his face with shadows as he removed his mask. There's a reason for that.

Also... Kakashi, Gaara, Shizune, Fukasaku, Orochimaru, etc. Death doesn't mean everything in this series.
not its been said a few times that "the first defeated madara nd thought he was dead"...

we never saw how he died but he didn't have a million boulders fall on him... not to mention he has wrinkles obito would be the same age as kakashi no srry he'd be 1 year younger... so yeah..

we saw a silhouette of madara being impaled by a sword, tsunade was impaled by a sword twice nd lived sarutobi was impaled by a sword nd lived for a while as well.. madara said "my chakra was the strongest in the uchiha which is why i survived so long"

minato said "there is no killing that man without a special power" aka KYUUBI which is why he said he sealed it in naruto.

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Old 08-22-2009, 07:35 PM   #97
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Re: Naruto 461 Prediction / Spoiler discussions

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We've seen a picture of how Madara "died." He got impaled by Hashirama. That's it. Considering that the EMS is supposed to make him IMMORTAL, that is NOTHING compared to Obito being completely crushed. Also, getting impaled would not COMPLETELY DESTROY HIS BODY. You really think Obito lived to tell the tale of how the right side of his body had every single bone, and every internal organ crushed? Odds are, Hashirama just left Madara to die at the Valley of the End, and when he returned to Konoha, claimed that Madara had died because he assumed that Madara was dead.
There's nothing about EMS granting immortality. I don't see Hashirama pulling a Sasuke (arrogantly assuming you've pwned your opponent when they've really got away). Way too noob-ish for the greatest shinobi of his time. Furthermore, this a manga. People come back to life all the time in this shit.

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minato said "there is no killing that man without a special power" aka KYUUBI which is why he said he sealed it in naruto.
He said that about Tobi. Big difference.



All the MS forms have appeared differently. That one belongs to Madara. We've yet to see it present in Tobi, just his 3 tomoe. Remember, Madara has Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan. The eye doesn't degrade. There's no reason whatsoever for Madara to revert to his 3 tomoe.

If Madara really is Tobi, why haven't we been given any visual evidence?

What reason would Kishi have to constantly conceal Tobi's face AND EMS form?

Why has he shown no offensive techniques, Sharingan or otherwise?

Why lose the Nine-Tailed Fox, his ultimate weapon over petty vengeance?

If he for wished Konoha's destruction, why not kill them all when he entered the village?

Konoha was technically on it's 5th Hokage. Why wait for that long of a time to destroy the Uchiha?

If his eyes are Eternal, why does their strength need to be restored?

If Madara always had this technique, why didn't he kill the First?

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Old 08-22-2009, 07:52 PM   #98
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Re: Naruto 461 Prediction / Spoiler discussions

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Originally Posted by Emissary of Justice View Post
If Madara really is Tobi, why haven't we been given any visual evidence?

What reason would Kishi have to constantly conceal Tobi's face AND EMS form?

Why has he shown no offensive techniques, Sharingan or otherwise?

Why lose the Nine-Tailed Fox, his ultimate weapon over petty vengeance?

If he for wished Konoha's destruction, why not kill them all when he entered the village?

Konoha was technically on it's 5th Hokage. Why wait for that long of a time to destroy the Uchiha?

If his eyes are Eternal, why does their strength need to be restored?

If Madara always had this technique, why didn't he kill the First?
You really seem to be forgetting something for most of those. Madara is being manipulative. Sneaky. Cunning. As in he's PLANNING something. He hasn't fought because he could just as easily get someone else to fight for him. He has been trying for many years to advance his plans without garnering the attention of people. It's significantly easier for him to use Akatsuki to capture the Bijuu when the great ninja villages are either unaware, or underestimating his group than when the entire world is waging all out war against them.

"What reason would Kishi have to constantly conceal Tobi's face AND EMS form?"

like many people have said, it's going to be Madara, WITH A TWIST. AS IN SOMETHING WE DIDN'T EXPECT. Also, think about this. The series had been making referrences to Madara, small at first, but growing much larger after the TS, almost from the very start. The first highly noticeable one was the location of Naruto v Sasuke: the Valley of the End. Where the 1st and Madara fought, and there are commemoratative statues of both figures. Then they make the Kyuubi referrence Madara LONG before Madara's introduction, as well as starting to make Itachi's true alignment more obvious.
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:01 PM   #99
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Re: Naruto 461 Prediction / Spoiler discussions

after what yamato said about madara i think madara too is using another body as a projection of himself and maybe can use all his justus,while he himself remains hidden,lol
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Old 08-22-2009, 09:03 PM   #100
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Re: Naruto 461 Prediction / Spoiler discussions

With the Akastsuki members dying like flies where is this Tobi now, where has he been since the death of Deidara? I won't bomb anyone about this Tobi stuff, Myth will get at you, I don't have the energy to explain what a rock slide in enemy territory (notice they never went back for the body) does to the Obito body, I'm done by saying... "you'll see, and let the freaking nin die peacfully, his only purpose was to perish giving Kakashi his sharingan, period". Every little detail ain't a side story. Its called 'overthinking'.
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Old 08-22-2009, 09:05 PM   #101
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Re: Naruto 461 Prediction / Spoiler discussions

Tobi = Madara and Zetsu = Obito thats my last word, you just will see...

Oh, two more things; The Kyuubi exists to contain dangerous chakra and therefore is so sinister but Madara turned the wheel...

Madara always use Genjutsu (which makes him to not appearing with a body) with his right and covers the left because he had no need for offense techniques and has a good alter ego to hid behind, you know Madara was/is known throughout and to prevent everyone and everthing to chase him such he has enough room to plan and do hiy puppeting he went "undercover" with Tobi, you see such a funny-crazy-twisted guy behind a mask is just ment to be an upper and interesting villian (kinda like Joker in Batman). You understand what I mean?

Anyway back to reality. I wonder if the next chap will be more talk or more action. However, all I believe in is that Madara wants to know how he can stop the one who's about to crush all his plans or rather how manipulate him such as he works in and not against his favor.
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Old 08-22-2009, 11:37 PM   #102
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Re: Naruto 461 Prediction / Spoiler discussions

i wonder what tobi's gonna say to naruto prob just manipulate him more
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Old 08-22-2009, 11:37 PM   #103
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Re: Naruto 461 Prediction / Spoiler discussions

I am not gonna completely rip apart the Obito theories because none of us are the actualy writers so we can't be POSTIVE that he is dead. Personally I don't believe Tobi is Obito, I believe Tobi is Madara. That is my opinion and I am stickign with it. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but the theories need to end....we have heard them all....and there is actually a specific thread for all that nonsense anyway. If someone has a new piece of information on why they think Tobi is Obito (and it actually makes sense) great! Post it in the thread for that subject and people can agree/bash it there. In this thread, however, let's put that discussion to rest.
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Old 08-23-2009, 12:31 AM   #104
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Re: Naruto 461 Prediction / Spoiler discussions

I just find it funny how Madara starts this story the same way he started the story about itachi..

"i will tell you the story of a person twisted by hatred blah blha the story of sasuke uchiha"

nd to sauske he said "the story of your brother born into war blah blah blah"

he's telling naruto the story of sasuke as if sasuke is already dead...
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:36 AM   #105
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Re: Naruto 461 Prediction / Spoiler discussions

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I just find it funny how Madara starts this story the same way he started the story about itachi..

"i will tell you the story of a person twisted by hatred blah blha the story of sasuke uchiha"

nd to sauske he said "the story of your brother born into war blah blah blah"

he's telling naruto the story of sasuke as if sasuke is already dead...
That's probably just the way he generally tells tales when he's trying to influence other people's opinions. And even with that, I would not be surprised if Madara is counting on, and probably trying to cause Sasuke dying one way or another.
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