Gansta_Ninja

Just a recap…..

We have a gentleman here, who claims that is not claiming anything throughout this debate. As quoted above, he clearly claimed that the plane crash played a major role for the WTC collapse and not the fire as FEMA reported. Miburo pretends to be neutral, but his one sided arguments and his so-called logical explanations will immediately tells you that there was no 911 Conspiracy.

Solving conspiracies isn’t the domain of the Philosophers and Psychologist. This is the battle ground of structural engineers, architects, chemist and physicist. Where everything must be put into consideration; from WTC design to withstand hurricane winds and airplane crashes, fundamentals on building collapse, properties of flame and steel and even demolition aftermaths.

Everything must be taken into accounts before you can give a strong logical explanation of what happened at WTC Towers and WTC 7. As for Miburo, I believe he want to be considered as a mere logical spectator who happens to be skeptical and nothing more.

Mibs, if you want to play safe, you better spectate outside the ring. Also, I asked Miburo if he can travel through a close door as fast as with an open door; he logically answered:

Please Mibs don’t use your head literally to open a door.

Now we have a brilliant dude who doesn’t know what a “smoking” fire is. It is clear the Mal, hasn’t done his homework well. To help Mal understand let’s compare the WTC to a true towering raging infernos. *This also goes to Mew*





Now see what FEMA describe as the tremendous fires of the WTC.

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Gansta_Ninja

Since Mal and Mew (M&M) are having hard time understanding flames. Let me put it this way:

If you guys have ever tried to light a wood fire you would know that smoking logs indicates that fire is not burning successfully.

FACT

On 1975 the North Tower of WTC suffered a night time fire that lasted for 3 hours. Spreading vertically from floor to floor, it burnt twice as ling as 911 without a single hint of a building collapse.


Okay, here’s guy who consults a psychologist to in order to solve conspiracies. Since Mew is ignorant of the Law of Physic, he chooses to take shelter at the warm and soothing words of his mental scientist.

All the photos I presented were from both amateur and professional videos taken during the 911 attack. Real life professionals would suggest the same suggestion I made for both WTC and WTC 7. Structural Engineer like Ramon Gilsanz had already pointed out the obvious impulsion collapse during his interview with History Channel.




You don’t consider those actual 911 photos and expert testimony as evidence; you really have to see a psychologist.

Let me see, it seems that in your Left Brain there’s nothing right, and in your Right Brain there’s nothing left… *joke only bro*


So, this makes my photo a fiction then. Dude, you better educate yourself in how investigators do their work and also have yourself familiarize with Surveillance camera.

Like I said, Alex Jones provided a good photo. And that’s it. The photo was also supported by structural engineer Mr. Ramon Gilsanz. You were sending the wrong warning here my friend. I hope this will also serves as a warning to all people who read this, especially you Mew:

Just 3 days after 911, Washington instructed EPA to declare Manhattan safe and reopen Wall Street though the air remains toxic. The suffocating dust the covered the entire Manhattan was much more than dust.

It was pulverize concrete, grass, metals (containing lead, mercury), dioxins, benzenes and most of all ASBESTOS. None of these is healthy for any living thing. Thousands of health workers suffered lung cancer.




Yes! You don’t’ want to scare people.. just to downplay the seriousness of the health hazards.

Since this FEMA report says WTC collapsed was due to fire. That’s it! …case close?

__________________

Mal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gansta_Ninja We have a gentleman here, who claims that is not claiming anything throughout this debate. As quoted above, he clearly claimed that the plane crash played a major role for the WTC collapse and not the fire as FEMA reported. Miburo pretends to be neutral, but his one sided arguments and his so-called logical explanations will immediately tells you that there was no 911 Conspiracy.

Miburo is neutral. If the evidence pointed to government conspiracy, both him, Mew and myself would support that theory. However, the evidence does not support it, and thus we do not believe it. Don't mistake neutrality with indecisiveness, we've come to completely objective conclusions and are merely countering your arguments against what we believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gansta_Ninja Solving conspiracies isn’t the domain of the Philosophers and Psychologist. This is the battle ground of structural engineers, architects, chemist and physicist. Where everything must be put into consideration; from WTC design to withstand hurricane winds and airplane crashes, fundamentals on building collapse, properties of flame and steel and even demolition aftermaths.

You still don't get why a Psychologist is the person to talk to about human behaviour? That level of stupidity should be a bannable offence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gansta_Ninja Everything must be taken into accounts before you can give a strong logical explanation of what happened at WTC Towers and WTC 7. As for Miburo, I believe he want to be considered as a mere logical spectator who happens to be skeptical and nothing more. Mibs, if you want to play safe, you better spectate outside the ring. Also, I asked Miburo if he can travel through a close door as fast as with an open door; he logically answered: Please Mibs don’t use your head literally to open a door.

lolwut?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gansta_Ninja Now we have a brilliant dude who doesn’t know what a “smoking” fire is. It is clear the Mal, hasn’t done his homework well. To help Mal understand let’s compare the WTC to a true towering raging infernos. *This also goes to Mew* LOLSMOKEFOTOS Now see what FEMA describe as the tremendous fires of the WTC. LOLMORESMOKEFOTOS Since Mal and Mew (M&M) are having hard time understanding flames. Let me put it this way: If you guys have ever tried to light a wood fire you would know that smoking logs indicates that fire is not burning successfully.

Seriously? You can't think of any way that this claim is absolutely ridiculous stupid? Explain to me why smokeless fires cannot exist simply because there are smokey fires present. If you fail to explain this then I will never again offer you a serious answer and will forever laugh at and mock anything you ever say so long as we are both members of this site. Seriously. I've had enough of your ignorance. Oh, and try not to use irrelevant photos. Which photos are relevent and which are not? Easy: You've yet to use a single relevant photo of anything significant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gansta_Ninja FACT On 1975 the North Tower of WTC suffered a night time fire that lasted for 3 hours. Spreading vertically from floor to floor, it burnt twice as ling as 911 without a single hint of a building collapse.

This does nothing but prove you really can't understand how significant the impact of a HUGE FUCKING PLANE is on a building.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gansta_Ninja Okay, here’s guy who consults a psychologist to in order to solve conspiracies. Since Mew is ignorant of the Law of Physic, he chooses to take shelter at the warm and soothing words of his mental scientist. All the photos I presented were from both amateur and professional videos taken during the 911 attack. Real life professionals would suggest the same suggestion I made for both WTC and WTC 7. Structural Engineer like Ramon Gilsanz had already pointed out the obvious impulsion collapse during his interview with History Channel. LOLIRRELEVANTFOTOS You don’t consider those actual 911 photos and expert testimony as evidence; you really have to see a psychologist.

lololololol Mew is ignorant of the laws of physics? No. The person ignorant of the laws of physics is the one who doesn't realize that Mew's argument was completely independant of the physical world. Physics have an impact on the Metaphysical world? If you sinscerely beleive that, go DIAF. The world will be better off without any decendants you may be able to scam out of a woman.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gansta_Ninja So, this makes my photo a fiction then. Dude, you better educate yourself in how investigators do their work and also have yourself familiarize with Surveillance camera. Like I said, Alex Jones provided a good photo. And that’s it. The photo was also supported by structural engineer Mr. Ramon Gilsanz. You were sending the wrong warning here my friend.

I don't know about everyone else, but it seems mighty stupid to believe a guy who makes his living off conspiracy theory shit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gansta_Ninja I hope this will also serves as a warning to all people who read this, especially you Mew: Just 3 days after 911, Washington instructed EPA to declare Manhattan safe and reopen Wall Street though the air remains toxic. The suffocating dust the covered the entire Manhattan was much more than dust. It was pulverize concrete, grass, metals (containing lead, mercury), dioxins, benzenes and most of all ASBESTOS. None of these is healthy for any living thing. Thousands of health workers suffered lung cancer. Yes! You don’t’ want to scare people.. just to downplay the seriousness of the health hazards.

So the government demolished two massive building to scare the shit out of people and get them to support a more militaristic state, but they exposed them to health issues becuse they didn't want to scare them? You really need to work on that critical thinking thing: Exposing people to contaminants will only make them angry and less cooperative. If the government wanted to scare people and keep them in line, they'd have said the contaminants in the collapsed buildings were highly toxic and they'd have evacuated the surrounding area and quarantined it. Seriously, what's scarier than being removed from your home and living in a tent outside a massive fucking quarantine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gansta_Ninja Since this FEMA report says WTC collapsed was due to fire. That’s it! …case close?

lolwut?



Anyway, I'd like to thank you for your continued effort to accidentally provide us with stronger evidence in support of our "claims".

Miburo

Technically, all I claimed there was that the Windsor building wasn't hit by a massive plane and that structural failure doesn't equate to meaning steel melting. The first of which I'm sure you wouldn't dispute, and the second of which is obvious to anyone who isn't retarded (A=/=B).

And like Mal said, I am neutral and I'm just taking the most logical position in regards to the subject. There is no credible proof of a government conspiracy, so I don't believe it. Just like I don't believe someone if they say an invisible dragon riding a unicycle is in my backyard. It's not that I'm not open to the possibility that it's true, I just don't believe claims without proof. Because I don't suck at logic.

Also, you claim I have "one sided arguments" and use "so-called logic." Yet provide nothing to back those claims. You haven't proven anything I've said wrong or illogical. Same with Mal and Mew. Hell, you ignored every other aspect of my last post and instead are just attacking my character here, despite it not having any bearing on either one of our arguments. If I was biased or not neutral like you're suggesting, then it wouldn't make me wrong and it wouldn't make you right. It doesn't matter at all. So not only have you failed at attacking my character, but you're also committing yet another logical fallacy in this debate (Ad hominen). Well played. = )

Ironic that you would say that, considering how you totally bailed on that thermite argument you had going once Mal ruined your shit. And how CP less Simon ignored evidence that contradicted his cell phone argument. The only people who haven't been taking everything into account in this thread are the conspiracy criers.

The only thing I'm doing to "play it safe" is holding the logically superior stance on the matter.

Har har good one. I assume you used your stupid door analogy to attempt to show that things slow down when met with resistance. I replied that if the force and mass of the object is far greater than the resistance against it, then that isn't always the case. Like a wrecking ball will go straight through a particle board door like it wasn't even there. You know, elementary level physics. I guess you missed that though. What a surprise...>.>

mewmew

Solving conspiracies? LOLOLOL. You've already concluded that there was a conspiracy cos you're already pointing fingers! Then now you solve it? LOLOLOLOL Dude, was I refuting your evidence from the physical angle?? How stupid are you to not understand that? LOLOLOLOLOL. There are different angles in a conspiracy and you're only talking about the physical side of the "conspiracy", which is hardly evidence in a conspiracy theory. And im refuting from an angle that no conspiracy theorists have ever defended against, a reason why no conspiracies have ever been proven. NOBODY INVOLVED HAS ACTUALLY SPOKEN ABOUT IT. A quarter of the conspiracy is the idea/plan; another quarter for material factor but the greater half consists of the people who carry it out. Out of the innumerable people involved in your "conspirucy duh", has anyone actually spoken about it? How many people does the conspirators need to monitor more than a hundred thousand people involved to not to blurt anything about the "conspiracy"? How many media were involved in the 9/11 coverup? How many people rigged the buildings, the planes, the security? innumerable people numbering easily in the hundreds of thousands to millions. and not one spoke? Did you remember a true government scandal such as Watergate? less than 50 people were involved yet about a quarter of them spoke about it. Are you sure that humans carried out the conspiracy and not super intelligent bees or aliens? And I haven't even mentioned Philosophy in here LOL. TO DUMB IT ALL DOWN FOR YOU, as long as HUMANS are involved, it is the domain of PSYCHOLOGY.

Everything taken into account? are you joking? You mean, your biased "presentation" is taking everything into account? You haven't even answered any question in here correctly. You're making me laugh. You're only focused on the material side, which you haven't proven, and the blanks filled in by fiction. Again, how bout giving us a head count of the all people involved in your conspiracy? and how are they making them not talk about it. don't give me your "powerfull peopel involved duhhrr." only 1% of the world are powerful people and its most F$%^ing likely that their not amongst the people who rigged the buildings, crashed the planes and made the coverup possible. Why do conspiracy theories always stay as conspiracy theories again? Cos its biased and cannot be proven, unlike real theories! Conspiracy theories never takes into account the chaos and human factor. Everything is systematic in your theories, but that's not what happens in real life. Ex. "the WTC towers were supposed to take a 707 in the face duhhr and not colllaps duh. so THE ONLY EXPLANATION CAN BE shape charges and thermites blah blah"


DIDN't YOUR POST SAY THAT ALEX JONES WAS YOUR EXPERT IN THE FIRST PLACE? LOLOLLOLOLOLOLOL. That wasn't even Alex Jones' photo LOLOLOLOL.. He grabbed the photo floating in the net and put it in his film. Major LOL to you. He is a professional conspiracy theorist. As a matter of fact, conspiracy theories really are FICTION. They are just composites of facts sewn into one elaborate well-endowed story. If a conspiracy theory is proven, which is yet to happen in the several millenia of human existence, then it will be considered NON-FICTION.



FEMA said in their INITIAL assessment of their data that WTC most likely collapsed due to damage caused by uncontrolled fire and massive structural damage caused by the jet crashes, and the case wasn't closed after that, you KNOW that cos majority of the DATA you use and refute here came from FEMA. Is FEMA a machine? No. Lots of humans were involved in the data gathering, which also involve subjective experiences of these data gatherers, thus inconsistencies will always exist. If inconsistencies didn't exist, im pretty sure that the data could have been gathered by machines and computed perfectly by machines. Can anyone assess a crime scene as huge as WTC perfectly? Other institutions are also called upon to assess the data gathered by FEMA, and everybody agreed with them. That was the GENERAL ASSESSMENT. There wasn't even mention of Muslim extremists or Bin Laden shit in their report, unlike the "rebuttal" of your so-called "experts" with footnotes (Silverstein, CIA and other shit) and commentaries that tries to dig up into the small inconsistencies and uncalculable chaos, while largely FICTIONALIZING parts to fill in the blanks. So who's more objective in their investigation? Who's more believable in the first place? You say the FEMA report is wrong but why do you still "selectively" take data from it? Ex. your seismic reading. If you already deemed it wrong, you shouldn't treat parts of it that support your theory right.

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Gansta_Ninja

Therefore, his statements are not accountable. Just mere opinions that doesn’t support either party. I have to admit, Miburo is logical.. he knows peer pressure.

Logical position? It is obvious that you are refuting both my statement and expert testimonies for the sake of your gang’s disposition.

Explosive & Thermite use is a theory presented in order to explain the unusual collapse of the WTC Towers and WTC 7.

In relation to this, I presented clippings of photos, taken from actual 911 videos. Mainly, the visible explosion or “squibs” at WTC and the obvious crimping of WTC 7 before the collapse. Backed up with expert testimonies both structural engineers and demolition experts.

Did you know that WTC Towers were designed to withstand multiple plane crashes? Did you know that WTC Towers were designed to withstand crushing hurricane winds? The impact of the plane crash and the level of fire at WTC weren’t enough to bring the towers down. Most of all the WTC 7 collapse remains a mystery.

I believe you have an inquisitive mind Mibs, that’s why you are not taking a definite side. Once again, view 911 as crime scene where you need a strong Trinity (Victim-Suspect-Motive) in order to solve the case. Not just hasty generalization and conclusion…most of all don’t just rely on your intuition.

That Mental Scientist only gave his opinion about conspiracies. He has plausible statements when it comes to behavioral science. Like Mibs, the psychologist had an opinion that doesn’t even prove that there was no conspiracy.

Below, I will present the key conspirators and how they possibly pulled off this bonanza.

Earlier I raised this question:


1.) Who was the director of the company that provided the Electronic Security for WTC and Dallas Airport? *Both were involve in 911*

It was no other than the former President’s younger brother.



Also, Wirt D. Walker III a cousin of the Bush brothers was the CEO.



Was it only the security systems have been added for all those years?




..or it was also the wirings of a long awaited plan………

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Gansta_Ninja

Guys let me introduce you to Scott Forbes:



Scott Forbes was an IT specialist from a company leased at the South Tower since its erection. Mr. Forbes reported an unprecedented power down for the whole weekend prior to 911. They were told that internet cable wires have to be upgraded.




He notified many authorities including the 911 Commission of the unusual lengthy power outage but was ignored.

Who were the strange workmen and what were they really doing remain a mystery. Interestingly, all this facts were never made public.

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Miburo

Notice how your conclusion isn't supported by any of the premises you presented? Yeah, that's stupid. You should really try to break away from that trend.

I can fully justify anything I say. If I say an argument of yours is logically flawed then I can show you exactly how it is logically flawed. Unlike you, I can back up everything I type out. Don't be ridiculous.
Again, stupid. Even if that was the case, and any one of us was just ruining your shit because it's the trendy thing to do or whatever, how would that make any of us wrong? It wouldn't. Regardless of my motive, if I'm shitting on your arguments then I'm shitting on your arguments. How about trying to actually provide a counter-argument instead of busting out the ad hominens? Oh shit, I bet I know why. It's because it's pretty hard to mount any sort of successful counter-argument when your initial arguments are horrible.
Cut the "oh I got experts on my side lolol" shit. What experts? You haven't provided a single source throughout this entire thing. And whatever "experts" you do provide are probably not speaking for the majority in their field.

Also, http://www.debunking911.com/overp.htm and http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm



Take your own advice.


Lrn2logic. You don't need to prove a negative. The person claiming that there is a conspiracy has to prove that claim. It's not anyone else's job to disprove something that hasn't even been proven yet.

Gansta_Ninja

I have given my theory about the 911 conspiracy. I don't control your brainwaves. Just view this as the other side of the story. Personally, the very thought of 911 conspiracy irritates me. But there are times that we must not leave no stone unturned.

Many people believes that conspiracy theories like mine could have a negative emotional impact to the victim's family. Once again I would like to express my sincerest condolence. Upon making all the statements above, I don't intend to disturb anyone's peace.

...just consciousness, I, GN hereby rest my case.

Miburo, Mal and Mew. Thanks for the participation..

Till next time.



GN

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Mal

You "rest your case" with so many of our questions left unanswered? Lrn2deb8.


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Miburo

Once again we have defeated ignorance and mysticism with reason and logic! And MANLY PASSION!