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Old 11-20-2009, 01:18 PM   #76
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

The Clown Crew strikes again.

Some interesting observations...
1. OP bailed after dropping his troll bomb. Must've took all his literary acumen to write it in the first place. Now he has to rely on his antogonistic buddies to continue the troll.

2. The simple fact that this thread got stickied speaks volumes.

3. Nobody has challenged Azumi's, TSH's, or Kinako's arguments effectively. They have only tried to whirlwind the arguments with misdirection and attacks on grammer/format.

4. There are a LOT of bored ppl here!
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:18 PM   #77
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinako View Post
And I took every bit of his "evidence" and proven it to be and interpretation of OPINION and not FACT. When I first seen this thread, I actually checked his manga "evidence" and stated why it is merely his OPINION and not fact. Refer to my post on page 4 and tell me how that is canon. I also backed up my evidence WITH HIS MANGA "EVIDENCE". But until YOU can prove how my rebuttal is not valid......Blow it outta your @$$
Everything is opinion when it comes to Naruto's sexuality. It is opinion that he is straight, as well as gay, as neither has been explicitly stated.

In this thread, an argument has been formulated, which quotes from source, that Naruto has homosexual leaning/undertones. So far, all I see is rational argument from some people, and the majority of this sub-forum throwing one-line insults and being borderline homophobic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Sage View Post
3. Nobody has challenged Azumi's, TSH's, or Kinako's arguments effectively. They have only tried to whirlwind the arguments with misdirection and attacks on grammer/format.
Those "arguments" were already derailed by points made in the original post.

Last edited by Jaxon; 11-20-2009 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:31 PM   #78
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

But my argument is "FROM SOURCE". As a matter of fact the same sources that the Tzu Men guy brought up. All of his "evidence" comes from twisted-around one line statements from each issue and if you read those entire issues from all of his "evidence" you will see that his arguments are based on OPINON not CANON or FACT. Read his sources & arguments, then read my arguments (since I disected his sources) and then talk to me.
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:35 PM   #79
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Yeah, I did read your arguments. And my point still stands. Your arguments are also opinion. They don't render Tzu's original post invalid. Yet you seem to inferr that they do, while asking him to prove you wrong. That's the sort of tactic used by pre-schoolers on the playground. Oh, and you spent the whole post throwing in insults as well. That's also incredibly mature, and lends credence to your arguments =/
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:54 PM   #80
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Sage View Post
1. OP bailed after dropping his troll bomb. Must've took all his literary acumen to write it in the first place. Now he has to rely on his antogonistic buddies to continue the troll.
Nobody is trolling. And it's been less than 24 hours since he even posted this. Some people have shit to do and can't be online to reply to every homophobic or illogical argument that gets thrown at them. Take for example, this argument. You're attempting to discredit people of a certain stance by insulting them. That's an illogical argument. Ad hominen. Look it up.
Quote:
2. The simple fact that this thread got stickied speaks volumes.
Of how good of a theory it is, perhaps.
Quote:
3. Nobody has challenged Azumi's, TSH's, or Kinako's arguments effectively. They have only tried to whirlwind the arguments with misdirection and attacks on grammer/format.
Okay, master debater. You clearly know how debating works, after all. No one pointed out the logical fallacies in any of their arguments, right? But I guess since you say so, it must be true. lolol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinako View Post
But my argument is "FROM SOURCE". As a matter of fact the same sources that the Tzu Men guy brought up.
Here, you admit that your argument is based on the same sources that Tzu used.
Quote:
All of his "evidence" comes from twisted-around one line statements from each issue and if you read those entire issues from all of his "evidence" you will see that his arguments are based on OPINON not CANON or FACT.
They're based on the same things you're basing your opinion on, BY YOUR OWN ADMITTANCE.

Also, you guys seem to not get the concept of opinions and facts. It may be his opinion (and the opinion of many others, all of whom are intelligent people who are rather well-versed in logic...) that naruto may be a homosexual. But his opinion is formulated based on facts shown in the manga. We've all discussed this in another thread, and we're open to the idea that Naruto may end up not being gay. But there is evidence that suggests that he may also end up being gay. Since we admit the fact that our theory may end up being falsified, that makes our theory even more logical. Because any theory that is good allows for the possibility of falsification.

Your opinion is that naruto is definitely a heterosexual. You seem to completely dismiss the possibility that he could be gay. No way, no how. He is straight. However, that is also just an opinion, a theory. It is just as Jaxon said. Naruto has never made his sexual orientation clear. Your position is not in any way superior to ours. If anything, it is a drastically inferior theory since you're claiming we're wrong. He isn't gay. That doesn't allow for falsification. Your essentially claiming that your theory is unfalsifiable. As any person well-versed in logic and reasoning can tell you, an unfalsifiable theory is a poor theory. If you'd like, I can link you to some websites that explain how theories and logic work, should you need further explanation.
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:55 PM   #81
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

I do not see how they don't. But seems like you are the preschooler since you do not seem to understand the difference between FACT and OPINION.In http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/229/14-15/ , you see that paticular line. But IF YOU READ the ENTIRE issue, then you would know he was talking about how he didn't have any family or friends and that Iruka was like a father and Sasuke was like a bro to him. There was no so-called proof that he had any homo feelings for Sasuke. Then you have http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/3/04/ which was his evidence to say and I quote "Naruto’s professed love for Sakura is a weak argument. Naruto has tended to only justify his attraction to her based upon her appearance". What 12-13 year old (Which was his age in Pt. 1) thinks that deep about the opposite sex besides how they look? Then you have http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/233/09/ . How does that infer any kind of gayness? There are many, many other flaws in this thread that you are defending, and I am not going to address them all again. But tell me how his point ARE valid?? As a matter of fact, tell me where I am wrong besides trying to throw insults at me??? But as far as my statements....http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/3/04/ He has feelings for Suckra (maybe not now) and views Sasuke as a bro, read issue 229. The WHOLE issue and not Tzu Men's two sentences. GENIUS. There is my proof and Tzu Men had it in his post first ironically.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:06 PM   #82
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

I'm not a preschooler, YOU ARE!

Yeah, you sure showed him he was wrong in implying that you're immature!

And speaking of irony, I laughed when you claimed someone else doesn't understand the difference between opinions and facts.

Unless you can prove that Naruto is a heterosexual, then you haven't falsified Tzu Men's extremely valid and well-educated theory. And there is no proof that Naruto is a hetero. If you say he's a hetero then you're doing the same exact thing Tzu Men has done: formulate a theory regarding Naruto's sexual orientation. Which you ironically claim is a stupid thing to do.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:09 PM   #83
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Nobody is trolling. And it's been less than 24 hours since he even posted this. Some people have shit to do and can't be online to reply to every homophobic or illogical argument that gets thrown at them. Take for example, this argument. You're attempting to discredit people of a certain stance by insulting them. That's an illogical argument. Ad hominen. Look it up.


Of how good of a theory it is, perhaps.


Okay, master debater. You clearly know how debating works, after all. No one pointed out the logical fallacies in any of their arguments, right? But I guess since you say so, it must be true. lolol



Here, you admit that your argument is based on the same sources that Tzu used.


They're based on the same things you're basing your opinion on, BY YOUR OWN ADMITTANCE.

Also, you guys seem to not get the concept of opinions and facts. It may be his opinion (and the opinion of many others, all of whom are intelligent people who are rather well-versed in logic...) that naruto may be a homosexual. But his opinion is formulated based on facts shown in the manga. We've all discussed this in another thread, and we're open to the idea that Naruto may end up not being gay. But there is evidence that suggests that he may also end up being gay. Since we admit the fact that our theory may end up being falsified, that makes our theory even more logical. Because any theory that is good allows for the possibility of falsification.

Your opinion is that naruto is definitely a heterosexual. You seem to completely dismiss the possibility that he could be gay. No way, no how. He is straight. However, that is also just an opinion, a theory. It is just as Jaxon said. Naruto has never made his sexual orientation clear. Your position is not in any way superior to ours. If anything, it is a drastically inferior theory since you're claiming we're wrong. He isn't gay. That doesn't allow for falsification. Your essentially claiming that your theory is unfalsifiable. As any person well-versed in logic and reasoning can tell you, an unfalsifiable theory is a poor theory. If you'd like, I can link you to some websites that explain how theories and logic work, should you need further explanation.
It seems like you don't want to believe he isn't. I used his "evidence" to show that everything he was presenting was not a fact. But you and the Surfs Up crew are trying to pass it off as FACT and not OPINION. Yeah it is my OPINION and also FACT that he isnt gay, and obviously you didnt read my post in page 4 about why he isn't. Read it and since you like disecting people's posts, disect that post on page 4 and then tell how me it is wrong. The fact that you are only trying to disect my shorter posts in later pages clearly show that you can't. I can accept the fact that your little crew feels that way about Naruto, but it seems like you belittle those that don't (like myself and others). But if your buddy would have presented actual evidence PROVING that he IS, then I would have not made any posts. BUT HE DIDNT so dont try to talk down to me in such a condescending way because I feel differently. I can respect your opinions and wishes but until Naruto starts asking dudes on dates instead of Sakura.....THE BOY IS NOT GAY.

tl dr- come with actual facts to state why he is. Tzu Men's don't count out here. and he isnt here to defend that bullshit so it really dont count. A Man has to stand by his word.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:14 PM   #84
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
I'm not a preschooler, YOU ARE!

Yeah, you sure showed him he was wrong in implying that you're immature!

And speaking of irony, I laughed when you claimed someone else doesn't understand the difference between opinions and facts.

Unless you can prove that Naruto is a heterosexual, then you haven't falsified Tzu Men's extremely valid and well-educated theory. And there is no proof that Naruto is a hetero. If you say he's a hetero then you're doing the same exact thing Tzu Men has done: formulate a theory regarding Naruto's sexual orientation. Which you ironically claim is a stupid thing to do.
Who's acting like a preschooler now??? Tell me how I am wrong without being insulting. I can see how you would think what you think but until you can show some UNDISPUTABLE proof.... Because Tzu Men's "proof" is not solid enough to sway me and I stated why on Page 4. you shouldn't have skipped it or else you wouldn't be saying anything right now LOL
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:20 PM   #85
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Kinako View Post
Who's acting like a preschooler now???
Mibs certainly isn't. The text in italics was him summing up the contents of your post, rather than his actual opinion. Should he have put it in quotation marks or something, so you'd get it?
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:20 PM   #86
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

I think it's obvious why nobody answered you but since you're crying for attention i'll actually give you some..



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinako View Post
Did this dude come from that other forum with a SasuNaru fanclub or what??? GTFOH with that bullshit. The Sixth Hokage put into words what I was thinking. You are talking about a dude who has been alone most of his life pretty much and then finds a COMRADE/RIVAL/BRO (Not any closet homo bullshit)
If you know any thing about homosexuality you'll know that it happens because of either genetic or psychological effect..
In naruto's case it's clear that he had been raisin on his own,he had no parents or no one to look after him as far as we know so it's so easy for us to believe how he got drove away into homosexuality if we assumed that his case is psychological and here is why:

1- Living without parents since childhood grows sever case of insecurity and loneliness and timidity and the deep need for nurturing and protection which also cause the need to draw attention in order to get this needs (which is what naruto did more than anything else)

2- In that case naruto is looking,even unintentionally, for someone to fell his needs and who else we can think of other than the one he adores the most and ready to leave every thing behind in order to get him back to him?

As for the genetic cause of homosexuality, I don't think it needs explanation,If naruto genetically homosexual it's only defines his acts so if you think about it you'll find him gay both ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinako View Post
Oh yeah, let’s not forget that dumbass promise to Suckra. Let us examine your Bulls--- I mean proof.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/229/14-15/ and http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/229/16/ for instance. Did you even read that whole issue?!?!?!?! You took like two sentences out of an entire issue and twisted them completely around. On pages 14-15, he said “I wonder… if it is like being with a brother.” And page 16 how “For Me it’s one of the first bonds I ever had” you left out the fact that those quotes were from when him and Sasuke fought before he ran to Orochimaru AT THE END OF THEIR WHOLE EXCHANGE OF WORDS. You did not mention how he also describes his bond with Iruka as well http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/229/12/ .
Alright i don't know much about real life homosexual couples but am pretty damn sure that they don't really mind calling each others bros because it doesn't make them any less of a lovers.
Now if we are even talking about blood brotherhood,I think you need to know that the word "incest" doesn't only apply for cheap pornographic stuff it actually happens in real world heterosexually as much as homosexually.

Point is..naruto describing sasuke as his brother doesn't deny his sexual attraction to him but it can mean that he is not ready yet to admit his feelings.


Every thing else in your post is retarded as all you just did is quote the OP's evidences and typed some opposite non-sense.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:23 PM   #87
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinako View Post
tl dr- come with actual facts to state why he is. Tzu Men's don't count out here. and he isnt here to defend that bullshit.
It's already been stated why people would believe Naruto may be gay. Why would I have to repeat what has already been said to validate stuff? What kind of logical argument is that? I'll tell you, it isn't any kind of logical argument.

Can you at least admit that it's entirely possible that we are right and that Naruto might actually be gay?
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:31 PM   #88
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinako View Post
It seems like you don't want to believe he isn't. I used his "evidence" to show that everything he was presenting was not a fact. But you and the Surfs Up crew are trying to pass it off as FACT and not OPINION. Yeah it is my OPINION and also FACT that he isnt gay, and obviously you didnt read my post in page 4 about why he isn't. Read it and since you like disecting people's posts, disect that post on page 4 and then tell how me it is wrong. The fact that you are only trying to disect my shorter posts in later pages clearly show that you can't. I can accept the fact that your little crew feels that way about Naruto, but it seems like you belittle those that don't (like myself and others). But if your buddy would have presented actual evidence PROVING that he IS, then I would have not made any posts. BUT HE DIDNT so dont try to talk down to me in such a condescending way because I feel differently. I can respect your opinions and wishes but until Naruto starts asking dudes on dates instead of Sakura.....THE BOY IS NOT GAY.

tl dr- come with actual facts to state why he is. Tzu Men's don't count out here. and he isnt here to defend that bullshit so it really dont count. A Man has to stand by his word.
First of all, the entire OP is a theory regarding his sexuality, you (and many others here) proceed to assume we are claiming his homosexual orientation as fact. We simply have shown evidence, & suggested that Naruto being a homosexual is not a far fetched concept.
On the contrary, many ppl (including yourself) are being irrational & stating that it is not even remotely possible that Naruto is homosexual, that he's completely heterosexual & you refuse to remain open minded to any other opinion concerning this.

edit: Mibs said what i was trying to say
Edit 2: Also I don't know about all this pg 4 stuff...Awesome ppl like us still see everything on 1 page cuz this thread hasn't had 100 replies yet
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:43 PM   #89
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by playafosho99 View Post
Know what the difference is between your wall of text & Tzu man's?

He intertwined canon evidence throughout his conjecture & simply stated a point of view/theory. Whereas you don't link any evidence, constantly ridicule those who find validity in the OP's theory and openly dismiss the idea since there has been no blatant panel showing Naruto in act of homosexuality.

Furthermore a tid bit to consider in regards to Kishimoto's cultural lens it should be well noted that he is influenced by the ancient japanese tales in formulating characters/jutsus & in ancient japanese literature, the topic of homosexuality was addressed & when it cames to same sex friends twas common place

edit: did anyone else have trouble typing? cuz i couldn't type in reply boxes til i cleared the cookies
He does not have any evidence.. he makes such "compelling" points as Naruto graffitting the Hokage monument as bukkake. Wow, what a genius. Furthermore, he used inaccurate historical comparisons such as Sparta, where only bisexuality was encouraged. Homosexuals were not even human.

I first off, wrote that in 3 minutes. Secondly, if you need me to cite evidence of Naruto's heterosexuality, I suggest you start learning how to read. This requires no evidence-providing because it is canon. Of course I am dismissing his theory: there's actually no evidence. Homosexuality needs proof: Naruto admiring another man, him having a crush on someone (instead of Sakura...), etc etc.

Kishimoto's cultural lens, as I explained, is pretty consistent to the typical Japanese male. He rarely, if ever, has female characters of importance and conveniently leaves out any cases of homosexuality. Like every other Japanese manga I can think of....

Like someone else before said, you are overcomplicating a simple understanding. This is a form of literature for Japan's young teenage boys. 'Nuff said. Just another convenient venue for people to express their hatred of Naruto.

Again, providing biased commentary to neutral panels is NOT evidence. If this was a court, you would have been reprimanded for even trying to say that proves anything. Symbolism has its place but when there's no actual depictions of heterosexuality, it's a theory at best. A lofty one. The audience, the genre and so forth all show the obvious (as well as you know... the panels): Naruto's heterosexual. Like every other action star I can think of.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:47 PM   #90
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Again, providing biased commentary to neutral panels is NOT evidence. If this was a court, you would have been reprimanded for even trying to say that proves anything. Symbolism has its place but when there's no actual depictions of heterosexuality, it's a theory at best. A lofty one. The audience, the genre and so forth all show the obvious (as well as you know... the panels): Naruto's heterosexual. Like every other action star I can think of.
You are clearly sending mixed signals about your opinions here
Furthermore you are running under the pretense that everyone is born heterosexual
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