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Old 11-20-2009, 09:02 PM   #136
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Ero-Sage View Post
Uh, you mean internet badass. Claiming true badassness on the internet is just fail.

Naruto lusts after sakura=not gay.
I can hardly remember the last time Naruto cried in his sleep for Sakura, or any female for that matter. He usually kisses Sasuke's picture on the night stand good-night before going to sleep.

Honestly, since the start of Shippuuden he's rarely ever thought of Sakura.
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Last edited by Spiegel; 11-21-2009 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:15 PM   #137
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Sounds like someone just wishing they had a cool role-model who didn't think that looking at other guys in the shower was "sick."
If I considered Naruto as a role model I wouldn't mind if he banged girls or guys, or both, or even inamnimate objects and animals. It doesn't affect what morals of the story are about, it's just another layer of his character for us to interpret.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Your first sentence said it: "jokingly." Believe it or not, but beyond the insane homophobia of male-male relationships, there can be amazingly strong bonds. Loving another man doesn't mean you're going to want to put your Johnson down his hershey canal.
Having strong bonds doesn't stop you wanting to have sex with someone, especially if you love them.
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Originally Posted by Azumi View Post
Oh like Masashi SHOULD think the way DBZ creator do. Seriously. The important thing isn't so much that Naruto and Sasuke actually kiss, it's that the author attempts to make the audience already begin to think of sexual tension between the characters. Proof? And by proof I mean an actual statement from Kishimoto confirming the said theory. >.>
Literary interpretation works by interpreting the author's actions in the writing, Kishimoto could explicitly state that Naruto is straight but it wouldn't destroy any homosexual reading of the series.
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Originally Posted by Azumi View Post
You said romantic? Can you site any hint of this romance you were blabbering with aside from that accidental kiss? Kthx
Btw, accidental kiss =/= romance. >.>
Kissing is usually considered to be romantic if it's not done in a sexual manner. Whether or not it was intentional is irrelevant when considering a subtext.
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Originally Posted by Azumi View Post
How about Naruto did the Sexy no jutsu as an appreciation for feminine beauty? Seriously, you can do a lot of interpretation with that. Im quite amused with yours, though.
Yes, but an alternative interpretation doesn't eliminate the other. The only evidence involved here is that he does it, and he's only explicitly said that he uses the technique to prank adults.
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Originally Posted by Azumi View Post
Well written, I should say. I appreciate the effort you've exerted in writing this.
I wrote this whilst watching countdown and eating soup, there's no need for this.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Exhibit B:

http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.p...uto&c=347&p=10

Naruto says and I quote "I don't want to see that nasty crap."
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
That was a well-formed argument? Most of it was bullshit with no actual evidence. Empirical evidence > personal assumptions.
Interpretation uses evidence but it can't be disproved by it, textual analysis doesn't work like a fan prediction or arguments over canon. It's coined reading between the lines for a reason.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Naruto has been shown to be blatantly heterosexual and indeed homophobic in many panels, including in the two pages I have already provided.
An opinion.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Some people need new hobbies. Ever notice how the makers of these threads never discuss legitimate Naruto things? Haven't seen any of you guys post in the Naruto manga section in a long time. It's all for the LULZ for you.
I post semi-regularly in the anime and manga sections, but most of the discussion is weak - that's not my fault.
Yes he does, that's not an argument though. It's up to interpretation whether Naruto was sincere in that, or isn't just a hypocrite.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Naruto has been a story of bonds since the beginning, circulating around the lives of Uchiha Sasuke and Uzumaki Naruto. Being a shonen ninja-themed adventure story about the brotherhood between the two, it is inevitable for people to jump to the conclusion that homosexual feelings exist between the two.
In a joking manner yes if it wasn't for the other points I discussed in the original post.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
This is rather intriguing as Naruto has constantly showed signs of attraction in the opposite sex, while being uncomfortable and indeed homophobic towards depictions of the male body.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtext
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Not many male homosexuals avoid seeing that which they are attracted to.
Unless they are sexually confused, which is a main conclusion of the reading.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
The counterargument that this is Naruto hiding his feeling seem to be very delusional as characters are displayed through entirely visual observation in manga. Naruto’s very reactions show disgust, so how are we the audience supposed to interpret it? When Sasuke hits an opponent with a genjutsu, should I simply assume it was ineffetive, despite visual evidence to the contrary? Commentary means nothing without the support of the manga. A few awkward panels (most of which can only be interpreted as homosexual, when one clearly is guided to it) that were done for humour do not matter.
Ad hominem, and once again interpreting subtext doesn't work that way. Besides here the visual evidence is up for debate based upon the supporting body of the argument.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Why is it interesting that Naruto and Sasuke kiss? The manga, particularly at the beginning, was aimed at teenage boys; what’s more hilarious to them than accidentally kissing another boy and hating it?
I dunno, fart jokes - it had plenty of them. There's no argument against it existing for comic relief, the argument considers why Kishimoto chose that action rather than the alternatives.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Goku’s actions were done in the same fashion: for comic relief. The scene in which Sasuke and Naruto’s kiss takes place is quite intense, as Naruto is belittled into a sense of non-existence. The class hates him and loves Sasuke to the point of idoltary, so in a petty means to make himself feel big, Naruto challenged Sasuke by jumping on his desk. He was pushed into Sasuke and then both proceeded to nearly vomit. How this could be interpreted differently is rather interesting.
You shouldn't inform someone in an argument to anywhere this degree, this is just wasting readers' time.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
By interesting, I mean faulty as a Soviet nuclear power plant in the Ukraine.
By wasting reader's time, I mean as much as making a lame reference to the Chernobyl disaster.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Naruto doesn’t accidentally kiss Sakura because it wouldn’t be funny and would be meaningless unless both had the same feeling. This is a sign of a true or even a legitimate romance.
Wait? You’re arguing that Naruto is gay because he likes Sakura because of her physical appearance? Jesus F-ing Christ man. Lamesauce. So a physical attraction can be mimicked for years, so much that he stood up against Gaara for her? Wow, that’s some mighty peer pressure, considering Lee wasn’t met until the Chunin Exams.... must have been hard imitating someone you didn’t know. Er...Naruto thinks “I need to stop making a fool of myself in front of Sakura-chan” and blatantly stops to admire her growth, when has he done that for anyone else?
He complimented Akamaru on his growth too.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Naruto ignores Sakura’s confession because of the reasons, shocker!, provided in the chapter. He knows Sasuke is still in Sakua’s heart and she is fooling her self, thus why he becomes visually disappointed from being shocked. He’s a kid on Christmas who just found-out his present was fake. It’s been nearly 3 years of Naruto being sombre in his feelings around Sakura, knowing she loved Sasuke, why would he react incredibly strongly out-of-the-blue? After the death of Jiraiya, the near death of Kakashi and the Pain Arc, I fail to see Naruto being brought to tears about something as little as Sakura lying.
Really? Naruto and Sasuke rarely discussed their emotions. They expressed them in a typical male way: through actions. Just like brothers, they squabble and try to outdo one another, while in the end still loving each other. The panel you provide shows Naruto and Sasuke holding hands. You do realize that that holding hands is not homosexual right? Simply because it is not common in North American and European society does not mean it is homosexual. In Ethiopia, straight men constantly hold hands. It is only homosexual if you deem it so. You have aimed to do so in order to validate your weak argument. When does Naruto give up on his dream of becoming Hokage? He said “a person who cannot save his friend, cannot become Hokage.” In other words, saving Sasuke is the path to becoming Hokage. HUGE difference....Beauty and the Beast... seriously? Your historical analysis is rather faulty as in Sparta, a man’s duty was to provide the city-state with off-spring. Casual homosexual sex was not frowned on, until a man refused to have a wife, as was to be expected. This was state-supported bisexuality, not homosexuality. Good try. Wait. Having a coach who gets laid and being in the same pool of water means something is gay? Jumping to conclusions are we...
Subtext, metaphor, symbolism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Naruto blatantly expressed his love for Sakura, constantly and while he has ignored Hinata, he has come closer to real romance with her than Sasuke. He has said to her “I like people like you,” with Kishimoto obviously hinting at more.
And yet he's consistently been oblivious to her, and the narrative has quickly left her after he confession.

Last edited by Tzu Men; 11-20-2009 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:16 PM   #138
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Never in the manga has there even been a slight hint of homosexuality. You are stretching strong male-male relations to the breaking point.
Interpretation once again.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Naruto’s disinterest in Jiraiya’s books is not that shocking... some straight men don’t like strip clubs, does this mean they take it up the ass?
Not on its own no.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Naruto is constantly complaining about how Jiraiya forces him to go into the Pervy Jutsu, so why would he complain if it was what he wanted.
I never said the pederastry was encouraged by Naruto, he allows it in order to be trained.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Furthermore, when he desired attention from Jiraiya, as a male mentor, why did he not use it? He wallowed in self-pity, learning the Rasengan alone, without complaining... and guess what? He never used it to re-gain that attention Jiraiya gave him when they first met.
He's not a whore man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Wait... you are arguing that a visual representation of his disgust is contrary to his inner feelings, despite the fact that the mode of media is entirely visual. Holy fuck. This is like me arguing the politics of a composer by listening to his music. Epic fail.
See, this is why you need structure, what are you referring to?
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
You are assuming that Narutoverse has homosexuals and is not a reflection of Kishimoto’s own cultural lens that is openly homophobic. Japan is a very conservative country and does not embrace homosexuality, thus why it is so often a scape-goat as in other cultures. Thinking that Sasuke feels a similar social pressure is also foolish and Sasuke wants to “re-build his clan,” somewhat difficult when one is homosexual.
Nice slap of projection there, and Sasuke has never explicitly stated what he means by that. Clans can be rebuilt in other ways.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Jesus Christ, the graffitti is graffitti. Haku was a very feminine boy, thus why Naruto was attracted to him. Why hasn’t Naruto been attracted to any boys since? Oh yeah. Because he’s straight. Another attempt by Kishimoto to be funny. Actually, his attempts are quite concurrent with being an orphan who desperately needs any attention. That technique was another source of humour, which was used against Gaara only because Naruto assumed “he’d be weaker at the bottom.” Strategy is key.
Subtext and lack of humour.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
The last paragraph is such a stretch it’s not even worth my time. Anyone who is defeated is put in a position of less power, they are degraded in the social hierarchy. This can conjur thoughts of sexual hedonism, having that complete control over the other. But the defining factor of homosexuality is actually DOING of the acts... being naked with another man is not homosexual until sexual activity begins.
Subtext.
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Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Furthermore, Sasuke leaning over to Naruto is more like a bow, a respectful admission of Naruto’s equal skills. Their similarities are as brothers, who hate and love each other at the same time.
That's a valid alternative interpretation, but it still doesn't disprove others.
(Not considering the conclusion as it just reiterates the last points.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by liondemon View Post
If he were gay, his 1st crush would have been a boy if not Sasuke.
For most people sexuality isn't decided at birth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSixthHokage View Post
Sorry did it in word, isn't being that co-operative after being copied. You'll have to suffer through I am afraid.
I typed my post in word, are you sure you know how to use it?
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Originally Posted by ThePRODIGY View Post
there are so many gay things and actions in this manga to single out only naruto to be gay is a crime why not sai or gai or rock lee or kakashi or Kb because they all did or say things that either looked or sounded gay right or wrong?
Because unlike Naruto there isn't sufficient subtext and evidence for most of those characters to really suggest it.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:16 PM   #139
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Kinako I’m not going through all of your posts as well because they’re even more misunderstood about how analysis actually works. Also, MS Word really isn’t that hard to use.
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Originally Posted by Rikudou Sennin View Post
This thread is exactly what happens when older guys read the manga. You're complicating things. You're overthinking!
You're underthinking and simplifying, what happened to intellectual discussion?
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Originally Posted by uchihawiz View Post
Bra are u gay or do u jus have that much time on your hand wtf sits there and jus think of this shit
Hey “bra,” yes I did have time to spit up a discussion here, much like everyone else who bothers to speak on the internet.
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Originally Posted by sheysher View Post
this thread sucks..
...cock! amirite?
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Originally Posted by durndle View Post
Tzu Men, It seems to me ur overanalyzing this. U broke this down microscopicly. With all the info u provide r u sure ur not gay? Just a guess. One more thing, Who is so head over heels for this book other then Kakashi? I might have missed something but he was the only one I had ever seen reading the book. Please correct me if Im wrong. One more thing when I was Narutos age I wanted to get naked with any girl that had a nice ass and some type of tits.
R u sure ur not homophobic or uncomfortable with fictional gay characters?

Also yes I did dissect it to a small level, that's not a bad thing - far better than looking at a subject in a general overview with no depth of thought or consideration.

Also, I'm sure you were a heterosexual child - why do you feel that you need to reinforce this?



That's all I'm replying to just yet, quite a lot to go through.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:33 PM   #140
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Tzu Men View Post
Kinako I’m not going through all of your posts as well because they’re even more misunderstood about how analysis actually works. Also, MS Word really isn’t that hard to use.

You're underthinking and simplifying, what happened to intellectual discussion?

Hey “bra,” yes I did have time to spit up a discussion here, much like everyone else who bothers to speak on the internet.

...cock! amirite?

R u sure ur not homophobic or uncomfortable with fictional gay characters?

Also yes I did dissect it to a small level, that's not a bad thing - far better than looking at a subject in a general overview with no depth of thought or consideration.

Also, I'm sure you were a heterosexual child - why do you feel that you need to reinforce this?



That's all I'm replying to just yet, quite a lot to go through.
Its a fucking comicbook involving Japanese Lore and Imagination. Directed towards Kids and Adults who still have some imagination. Why does it have to be a War of words? It only makes sense if u want it to, And if it doesnt U will come up with ur own opinion which makes sense to U but not everyone else. So come to terms with the fact that were all Human and we all have the right to voice opinion and or fact in our own way.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:49 PM   #141
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by durndle View Post
So come to terms with the fact that were all Human and we all have the right to voice opinion and or fact in our own way.
I'm attempting to figure out who is saying otherwise.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:13 PM   #142
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

If this manga wasn't initially targeted to the audience that it's targeted to, it wouldn't be hard for some to arrive to the conclusion that Naruto is gay.

This one particular bit from the manga that hints towards the kind of feelings Naruto has for Sasuke:

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...3/page017.html

Subtle hints like this could hint towards Naruto's sexuality.

Basically, Naruto stated that he'd practically die for Sasuke. That's not something you'd say about your friend, but more along the lines of someone you'd die for, ergo, your love.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...3/page016.html

^This contradicts Iruka. Also, over the years, Naruto has made many friends, some of which treated him much better than Sasuke ever did. Hinata, Shikamaru, Sakura, and Neji for starters. Those few are examples of those who have acknowledge that Naruto's strong and a dependable ally to have around in the time of need.

A deeper meaning can perhaps be drawn from this.
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Old 11-21-2009, 12:29 AM   #143
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Its funny reading all these post with folks debating over a fictional character's sexual orientation, when in fact this character is depicted as a immature teen with adult problems that slowly learning how to become a man or atleast mature like the others in his age group....so with this being said why wold he be concerned about having a relationship(with either male or female) when their are so many issues in his life and it just so happen that the issues and his friend go hand in hand and in essence are unavoidable....

So I think his sexual orientation is up to Kish and Kish alone....
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Old 11-21-2009, 12:45 AM   #144
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Tzu Men View Post
Kinako I’m not going through all of your posts as well because they’re even more misunderstood about how analysis actually works. Also, MS Word really isn’t that hard to use.

You're underthinking and simplifying, what happened to intellectual discussion?

Hey “bra,” yes I did have time to spit up a discussion here, much like everyone else who bothers to speak on the internet.

...cock! amirite?

R u sure ur not homophobic or uncomfortable with fictional gay characters?

Also yes I did dissect it to a small level, that's not a bad thing - far better than looking at a subject in a general overview with no depth of thought or consideration.

Also, I'm sure you were a heterosexual child - why do you feel that you need to reinforce this?



That's all I'm replying to just yet, quite a lot to go through.
The reason you dont want to go through my posts is because you know all of what you are saying is pure Grade A.... OPINION. The fact that your Surf's Up crew trying to belittle me for mine probably has you believing your own hype. But hey we all got our own opinion and I cant knock you for yours. It's not like either of us will change our stance on this subject.

But this whole debate aside....Why did all of the Surf's Up guys try to gang up on me for the fact I didnt buy what you were selling?? So if we disagree with one then all of you come, huh?? The fuckin internet version of the 3 Musketeers LOL!!! All for one and one for all!! Surf's Up?!?!?! What is that?!?! E-Thuggin at its finest. GTFOH and dont get mad because I dont believe that bullshit. Your "proof" aint proof. Other than that....It's been a fun day for me so far you guys are entertaining

And the only one of you Surf's Up guys that didn't try to instantly try to jump on my shit because of my opinion was Shrike. He is cool but the rest of you....... are FAIL personified.
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Old 11-21-2009, 01:37 AM   #145
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

wait did i missed the postss where "the surf'sup crew" gang up on you?
or are you just an attention whore?
becuase i only saw posts that were trying to make you change your opinion and/or maybe tried to make you think on the possibility of naruto being homosexual....
let me scroll up

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Old 11-21-2009, 02:16 AM   #146
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Far from an attention whore. As a matter of fact I havent even posted on here for a while until I seen this dumb shit. But since you seen their posts then look at the names of the most of the people that responded to me and the little "Surf's Up" logo under their names.But since you haven't seen that then there is nothing else to say about that. But the only reason I keep responding is not for attention whoring but the simple fact I chose to defend my opinion. But you scroll up to see what I am saying.
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Old 11-21-2009, 03:23 AM   #147
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

yeah i pretty much saw no one trying to "gang up on you" or E-thuggin" I just saw them trying to make you understand that there is a possibility of you know OP theory to happen. Becuase they're also defending their opinion just like you are. Besides if im not mistaken you were the one that started insulting the "Surf's up crew"

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Originally Posted by Kinako View Post
Man C'Mon Son!!! GTFOH with that bullshit!!! The only reason you aint read that shit is because it makes what you and your buddies(Yeeah I know all of you that believe this dumb shit all just happen to be friends) say about Naruto sound stupid as fuck. Admit it. Actually read my post AND The Sixth Hokage's post and come up with something better than circumstantial evidence and personal opinion. Dont get me wrong I thought Tzu Men was joking at first but when I seen he actually was trying to bring out "proof" I had to write that lengthy ass shit with all his "evidence" included showing that really all he was saying is his own personal opinion and not canon evidence. And since I didnt know what the fuck tl dr meant at first...


tl dr: If believe this dumbass shit without looking at both sides you ARE AN EPIC FAIL.
tl dr: STUPID
just because one of they guys zerosystem said

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Went through this thread, alot of this shit doesn't have a tl;dr version so in my opinion it is instantly null and void...
I only read the awesome posts, i've marked them in red...

eitherway sasuke is a pooper trooper and naruto is his anal lab rat...
so yes i didnt missed anything and i was right....
GTFO attention whore
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Old 11-21-2009, 03:42 AM   #148
Kinako
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by rokudaime_hokage View Post
yeah i pretty much saw no one trying to "gang up on you" or E-thuggin" I just saw them trying to make you understand that there is a possibility of you know OP theory to happen. Becuase they're also defending their opinion just like you are. Besides if im not mistaken you were the one that started insulting the "Surf's up crew"



just because one of they guys zerosystem said



so yes i didnt missed anything and i was right....
GTFO attention whore
Fuck you.
Quit swinging from their ball hairs and shut the fuck up. I pretty much accepted the fact that they feel that he is gay. I dont care about that now but respect MY opinion and stop talking shit. PUSSY
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Old 11-21-2009, 03:47 AM   #149
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

that's the second step of attention whoring now start insulting everyone so that we pay more attention to you.

also modz: ^flaming, do ban plz!
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Old 11-21-2009, 06:44 AM   #150
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

There is nothing wrong with being homosexual, however this thread is kinda amusing. lol =)
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