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Old 01-06-2010, 01:39 AM   #1
aeondrift
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Can rich Christians go to heaven according to the bible?

Is it ok according to Jesus for Christians to accumulate material wealth instead of distributing them to the poor?

Quote:
17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? 18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. 20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. 21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.(Mark 10:17-25) (Note: some scholars believe that "camel' is a mistranslation and it should be "rope" )

But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort." (Luke 6:24)


"You Cannot Serve God And Money"(Matthew 6:24)

"do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth" (Matthew 6:19)

The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?" Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." ( Matthew 19:20)

So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God." (Luke 12:21)
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:25 AM   #2
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Re: Can rich Christians go to heaven according to the bible?

symbolically it is not the money, but greed... so it really doesnt mean if you are rich you wont go to heaven... for instance if you really tried hard and stood up from rags to riches, and decided to spend your life and wealth in helping those who are like the past you, will you still not qualify in heaven just because of the simple reason that you're rich? if thats the case then everybody should just remain poor to be assured of the entrance to heaven...
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:35 AM   #3
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Re: Can rich Christians go to heaven according to the bible?

Quote:
"You Cannot Serve God And Money"(Matthew 6:24)
That verse tells you all you need to know. If you focus your life on God, you're good to go. If you focus on money, good luck at the pearly gates. It's all about your focus in life.

OniKage got it right concerning money vs. greed, though I disagree with the finer points of their theology.
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:50 PM   #4
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Re: Can rich Christians go to heaven according to the bible?

Why is this in conspiracy theories?

I don't think Christian's should be possessing material wealth according to the Bible. Jesus's ideas were all about self-sacrifice. Look at his ultimate action (the cross). I agree with the argument that you can only serve one master (God vs. money). The thing is, why be rich if you are a Christian? If you look at the time period and who Jesus was criticizing then you will see it was the rich and powerful he was criticizing whereas the poor he championed.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:04 AM   #5
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Re: Can rich Christians go to heaven according to the bible?

Depends on what branch of Christianity you belong to. The Baptists believe that entry to heaven is based upon your individual relationship with Christ. Then there's the "once saved always saved" and the "you should want to act x if you are truly saved...aka the 'salvation depends on your current faith'" crowds. The last one goes into "following the long and narrow path" metaphor for living.

From what I've gathered and come to believe is that there's an entry level salvation based on trust/believing/faith/etc with JC, but the level of sacrifice will be rewarded in heaven. I can't pull the verse's out of my head, but there's a story in the Old Testament about a poor widow giving tithe as well as some rich guys. She gave all that she had when plate came around, yet the rich merchants gave handfuls of coins scoffing at her. The Lord valued her tithe more because she gave from her heart and not from her status.

Overall, though, the Baptists don't believe that good deeds and charitable contributions will gain you salvation. Most of us give in the form of labor, money, and time to generally help others. If they come to believe as well, more power to them.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:06 AM   #6
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Re: Can rich Christians go to heaven according to the bible?

I love it.

Quote:
Depends on what branch of Christianity you belong to
This simple truth should completely reveal that religion is just a farce. God would not have different qualifying criteria depending on the the sect of Christianity that you belonged to.
2 Rich men, equally devoted to God, get to the pearly gates; God is not going to let one in because he was taught under the baptist faith and the other gets denied because he was not. God, if he is real, would have but one opinion on the matter, if he even had an opinion on something as trivial as wealth. I actually don't believe that God would even care about something that is purely a human creation. Why on earth would he have an opinion about wealth?

Although the theology of greed vs money is the correct answer to the direct question. I just thought that I would point out how obviously human the opinion of material possessions actually is.
Religion is rife with human opinion on human matters and human creations. Maybe God just cares for you to live your life, love the people in it, care for your family and friends and that is it (Live a good life). Why nitpick about not giving the beggar on the corner a few coins? Who is that beggar to you? Where does the line get drawn about which beggar you should give money to and which you should not. If you must give to everyone then you will be the beggar to someone else. If I split my paycheck with 10 people and 6 of those blow it on booze, casinos and whores; then what the hell was the point?

Its all just a self righteous opinion of the clergyman of the past, nothing more.
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:44 AM   #7
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Re: Can rich Christians go to heaven according to the bible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RNB View Post
Why is this in conspiracy theories?

I don't think Christian's should be possessing material wealth according to the Bible. Jesus's ideas were all about self-sacrifice. Look at his ultimate action (the cross). I agree with the argument that you can only serve one master (God vs. money). The thing is, why be rich if you are a Christian? If you look at the time period and who Jesus was criticizing then you will see it was the rich and powerful he was criticizing whereas the poor he championed.
Regardless of what you are trying to do in this world, you need money and a fair bit of it. If God's work requires money, it makes sense that He would need some of his people to have that money. Supporting God's work is why any Christian would "need" to be rich.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakaichiro View Post
This simple truth should completely reveal that religion is just a farce. God would not have different qualifying criteria depending on the the sect of Christianity that you belonged to.
Yeah, and He doesn't. Just because people believe different things doesn't mean they're true. The rest of what you said addresses this, as humans are often stupid and make up stupid rules to govern their religion. Really Christianity is this: We were created to love God, and be loved by God. As long as you love God, you're good to go. The rest is just fluff.

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Old 01-07-2010, 04:24 PM   #8
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Re: Can rich Christians go to heaven according to the bible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakaichiro View Post
I love it.



This simple truth should completely reveal that religion is just a farce. God would not have different qualifying criteria depending on the the sect of Christianity that you belonged to.
2 Rich men, equally devoted to God, get to the pearly gates; God is not going to let one in because he was taught under the baptist faith and the other gets denied because he was not. God, if he is real, would have but one opinion on the matter, if he even had an opinion on something as trivial as wealth. I actually don't believe that God would even care about something that is purely a human creation. Why on earth would he have an opinion about wealth?

Although the theology of greed vs money is the correct answer to the direct question. I just thought that I would point out how obviously human the opinion of material possessions actually is.
Religion is rife with human opinion on human matters and human creations. Maybe God just cares for you to live your life, love the people in it, care for your family and friends and that is it (Live a good life). Why nitpick about not giving the beggar on the corner a few coins? Who is that beggar to you? Where does the line get drawn about which beggar you should give money to and which you should not. If you must give to everyone then you will be the beggar to someone else. If I split my paycheck with 10 people and 6 of those blow it on booze, casinos and whores; then what the hell was the point?

Its all just a self righteous opinion of the clergyman of the past, nothing more.
Why don't you argue for atheism in the religion thread. This is about the Bible. You don't have to be a Christian to argue (see me). This thread assumes you know the Bible and respect Christianity. You don't have to, but when you write in this thread you should probably write in that mindset.

Quote:
Regardless of what you are trying to do in this world, you need money and a fair bit of it. If God's work requires money, it makes sense that He would need some of his people to have that money. Supporting God's work is why any Christian would "need" to be rich.
Does God's work really require money. First off, look at the early church. They were practically the first communists. That is what Christians should be doing according to the Bible.

Being rich does not advance God's work. You may say that one would earn money to give it away, but one could just give away nearly all of it and keep working. A guy who runs a huge company could donate most of his money to charity, but then he wouldn't be rich. Possessing material wealth does not advance the kingdom. Being able to earn it may, but storing it in your bank account does not.
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Old 01-08-2010, 01:21 AM   #9
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Re: Can rich Christians go to heaven according to the bible?

Quote:
Why don't you argue for atheism in the religion thread. This is about the Bible. You don't have to be a Christian to argue (see me). This thread assumes you know the Bible and respect Christianity. You don't have to, but when you write in this thread you should probably write in that mindset.
You seem to have misinterpreted my post. I in no way stated that God does not exist, which would be an atheist view. I merely stated in a round about way that the bible is not a deeper look into God's mind. Don't mistake the rejection of the bible as "truth" and rejection of religion, as the outright rejection of a Deity of some kind.

This "discussion" is around Christians (A religion) and the bible (A religious text) both of which I am arguing about. People always seem to make the assumption that by rejecting religion you are rejecting the existence of a higher being. This is not the case. You are right about one thing though, this thread assumes that you know the bible. My understanding of it is best described by Mal's words, "The rest is just fluff".

My stance is that the bible is a load of stories who's origins are anything but divine. So arguing the point of rich vs poor going to heaven, based on the word in the bible, is meaningless.
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:40 AM   #10
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Re: Can rich Christians go to heaven according to the bible?

I guess there's nothing wrong being rich as long as you know how to manage your resources very well. I guess teachings in the bible just want to tell us to live in simplicity and humility.
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Old 01-09-2010, 09:00 AM   #11
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Re: Can rich Christians go to heaven according to the bible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakaichiro View Post
You seem to have misinterpreted my post. I in no way stated that God does not exist, which would be an atheist view. I merely stated in a round about way that the bible is not a deeper look into God's mind. Don't mistake the rejection of the bible as "truth" and rejection of religion, as the outright rejection of a Deity of some kind.

This "discussion" is around Christians (A religion) and the bible (A religious text) both of which I am arguing about. People always seem to make the assumption that by rejecting religion you are rejecting the existence of a higher being. This is not the case. You are right about one thing though, this thread assumes that you know the bible. My understanding of it is best described by Mal's words, "The rest is just fluff".

My stance is that the bible is a load of stories who's origins are anything but divine. So arguing the point of rich vs poor going to heaven, based on the word in the bible, is meaningless.
Even if I did misinterpret your views you are still coming into this thread and not arguing the point. If arguing this point is meaningless then simply don't argue it, or argue as if it isn't meaningless. It isn't like your argument is something new that no one has heard before.
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Old 02-14-2010, 01:28 PM   #12
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Re: Can rich Christians go to heaven according to the bible?

well it depends, there are some situations where having money and making money can be good.

Lets say you have a successful money-maker. he should donate all his excess money to be "christain". but if he constantly gives away a percentage of profits in time he could easily have donated more than if he gave a one time donation.

If i ever become a successful money maker ill probably adopt something similar. Not to be "christian" or to go to heaven, but because, for me, it would be the right thing to do
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Quotes for noobs (learn how to break up a quote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future
So you can post the second bit and i shouldnt be allowed to if i dont tell you? Why be so rude?

Anyways, here is a quotes for noobs guide


1. A basic quote

[*QUOTE][*/QUOTE]

(the * need to be removed for it to work, I put them in so you can see the text) is a basic quote that just wraps something in a quote without saying who quoted it who quoted so

[*QUOTE]this is a quote[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
this is a quote

Edit: there is a button for this, it looks like a speech bubble. If you select text and then press the button the selected text will automatically be wrapped with the quote tag


2. A quote that says who said it

[*QUOTE=who said it][*/QUOTE] this adds who said the post, manually putting that there can be useful when quoting something external. Example:

[*QUOTE=Mangastream]Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us[*/QUOTE] without any * would look like
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangastream
Remember all you sexy bastards out there, Naruto, Bleach, OP, FT, etc. all on break this week. Feel free to take your rage out on us
3. A quote that says who said it and links to the post where it was said

[*QUOTE=who said it;X][*/QUOTE]

Where X is the post number.

For the post that i originally quoted it would look like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey, how do you break it up please and if your not willingly to tell me, then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]

That is what you get when you press the quote button.

4. Breaking up a quote

Now that you know how quotes work it all boils down to preference, how you want it to look like and how you want to do it.

One way of doing it is copying the latter part of the original quote [*/QUOTE] and then pasting it after each section you break up, write your reply, choose the text you want then paste it after that portion, repeat till you finish the go back and copy then paste the first part of the text at the beginning of each portion of text. Of course you can immediately copy and paste both parts of a poste so that you dont forget one in the end.

The end result would be something like this

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4



Which without any * would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4


Another way of doing it would be to cut and paste the second part of the quote tag after the first section of text you want to seperate then write your reply select the second part and hit he quote button (it looks like a text bubble),if you do that without anything else the end result would be

[*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164]Ok Stubborn donkey,[*/QUOTE]
My reply 1
[*QUOTE] how do you break it up please[*/QUOTE]
my reply 2
[*QUOTE]and if your not willingly to tell me, [*/QUOTE]
my reply 3
[*QUOTE]then please DONT offer me no advice in future[*/QUOTE]
my reply 4

Which would look like

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato uchiha View Post
Ok Stubborn donkey,
My reply 1
Quote:
how do you break it up please
my reply 2
Quote:
and if your not willingly to tell me,
my reply 3
Quote:
then please DONT offer me no advice in future
my reply 4

To make it like the previous example (which wpuld be preferred, though not necessary ) copy the part that says who posted with the link to the post and paste it accordingly to the proper part in each first half of each quote tag. In my I would copy =minato uchiha;2118164 and paste it where the # is
[*QUOTE#] to get [*QUOTE=minato uchiha;2118164] (of course with the * removed)


Of course you can use any other method you like to get to the end result, but now that you know what the end rwsult looks like I think there shouldnt be any problems
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:20 PM   #13
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Re: Can rich Christians go to heaven according to the bible?

You can be a rich christian and go to heaven but you can't take your money with you.
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:54 AM   #14
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Re: Can rich Christians go to heaven according to the bible?

What kind of dumb question is that???
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Old 02-15-2010, 02:39 AM   #15
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Re: Can rich Christians go to heaven according to the bible?

The type that's as dumb as yours, I suppose.

I agree with RNB for the most part, but, as for answering the question of the thread, I believe that you can be rich and go to heaven. There's no grounds against it, onyl to not worship or 'love' money or said valuable objects.

@Naka- Why are you in here? It does depend on a groups theology because how they view God's word does influence how they live. If you don't like/believe/agree with the bible is irrelevant, this is about bible content and people taking it seriously enough to discuss it's relevance, and under the assumption that said content is true. Since this is meaningless to you, and you basically stated you don't have any actual idea about what you'd even be talking about, then you're in the wrong place.
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