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Old 04-23-2010, 03:54 PM   #61
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Re: New World Order

Quote:
Originally Posted by AniMeFaN View Post
you say you can assure that war helps the economy,you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, you say amreica produced war time goods and made money in ww2, well that is because the were not the ones fighting the war, they just manufactured goods needed by countries in war, countries fighting a war never benefit from it economically, never.
I really hate using Wikipedia as a primary reference, but I don't have enough time to dig up more numbers. But:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

You can scan it, but look carefully when you get to "Home Fronts and Production". Hey look - a graph. And what do you know, Allies production and GDP rose during the war. So much for never. Furthermore, after the war, some of the factories built for bombs were converted to other means and one happy impact of WWII was an increase in production ability by Western Nations. Another was the baby boom which increased consumers and workers which led to further improvements in the economy.

I don't think we can yet say that *THIS* war has any benefits on the economy, but I would argue that the majority of economic problems of the western world are not due to war but rather the deregulation of business practices and the unwillingness to actually undertake any massive production in North America or Europe any more - things come from Asia now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AniMeFaN View Post
you know america did not want to get involved in the war and did not until much later, who do you think they were sending the weapons to??? the countries involved in the war.
its alright, i know that is the best thing from that post you can throw at me. i can throw almost everything back from the other guys post which you neglect because of being friends, if your friend is wrong you can tell him, he wont learn otherwise.
Was that class you were talking about a history class? WWII began Sept 1st, 1939. The USA entered the war Dec 7th, 1941 (or there abouts - the declaration came fairly quickly). Prior to that, yes, in the 1930s they were selling arms to both sides, but that quickly ended by the mid 30s in a rail against Hitler's Germany. Also before they supported the rest of the Allies cause with supplies and security (banking on the idea that Germany wouldn't attack the USA navy and risk their involvement) and only were reluctant to enter the actual fighting due to the public mentality to war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AniMeFaN View Post
well were not even talking about the conspiracy theory anymore, topic seems to have shifted, i was going to eventually put up "evidence" although it is a conspiracy theory so any so called evidence could be flipped around and would not hold up in a debate of 2 equals. i told you multiple times i posted a theory to discuss, you think every discussion has to start as a debate for some reason, if anyone actually knew anything about the conspiracy that posted in the thread than we would be having a discussion.
Don't qualify the evidence. Let everyone be the judge of it and let it go from there. But I'd still like to know your reasoning for the requirement of a completely open and public government and/or business.
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Old 04-23-2010, 04:48 PM   #62
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Re: New World Order

the things i am saying are common sense, think about it and it makes sense,
he sais we have plenty of money and were fine, i say we are the largest debtor nation in the world, we have the largest debt in the world along with a hugge trade defecit due to being majority consumption based. if we are consuming and not producing how can we pay our debt off, our debt of trillions of dollars, how can we continue a war that cost trillions if we are already in debt. it doesnt make sense right?? or am i the only one thinking this and you all are thinking we have plenty of money??

he sais who gives a shit about the fed, so you dont care that private bankers have a printing press that they can use when ever they choose and the government currently allows them with out asking any questions. you do realize every dollar they print just takes away value from the dollars we already have, its a big deal when they are printing trillions, it effects our own money, thats why prices were stable for years and then all of a sudden we leave the gold standard and there is massive inflation.

him-
Quote:
Rockefeller was good at what he did because he knew what he could and couldn't do and acted accordingly (by viciously eliminating his competition in a fair, capitalist way).
my textbook-
Quote:
in the end rockefeller triumphed over his competitors by marketing products of high quality at the lowest unit cost. but he employed other, less savory methods as well. he threatend rivals and bribed politicians. he employed spies to harass customers of competing refiners. above all he extorted railroad rebates that lowered his transportation cost and undercut competitors. by 1879 he controlld 90 percent of the countrys entire oil refiniing capacity"
@miburo i dont see how argueing pro life or pro choice can possibly be like for a conspiracy theory, second i am clearly the minority, everyone thinks im wrong, surely one of you can prove something wrong in this post.

Last edited by AniMeFaN; 04-23-2010 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 04-23-2010, 06:45 PM   #63
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Re: New World Order

Quote:
Originally Posted by AniMeFaN View Post
@miburo i dont see how argueing pro life or pro choice can possibly be like for a conspiracy theory,
I'm not surprised.

Quote:
second i am clearly the minority, everyone thinks im wrong, surely one of you can prove something wrong in this post.
Not our job to disprove something that has no rational reason to be taken seriously to begin with. I'm just being rationally skeptical of your dubious claims. YOU have the burden of proof when it comes to YOUR claims. YOUR claim is that he's completely wrong about everything he says and has no clue as to what he's talking about. Prove it.

Saying what boils down to a "no u prove me wrong" doesn't justify your stance in any way.
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:20 PM   #64
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Re: New World Order

miburo i explained to you exactly why he is wrong, if you dont think its a rational explanation than thats on you because it is a perfectly rational explanation. there are people who are going to say the economy is great, the same people who said that the real estate bubble was not a bubble. there is nothing that sais this is the truth, there are different views on the matter, im explaining to you why this is the right one and it clearly is.

he sais we have plent of money and were fine, i argue how can we have plenty of money and be fine if we have the largest debt in the world, we are continually running up this huge debt by huge amounts each year, how can we be fine if we cant pay it back, we are a consumer based nation with a huge trade defecit, if we consuming more than we are producing how can we possibly pay this debt back, how can we possibly be fin and have money. these are all rational thoughts as to why he is wrong.

he sais who gives a shit about the fed, i say alot of people give a shit, congress tried to pass a bill allowing the audit of the fed, the fed is a group or private bankers who have a printing press and can print money without an explanation as to for who and what purpose to the government, every dollar they print takes away value from our own money through inflation, they happen to be printing trillions, this is a big deal and alot of people care, these are rationl thoughts as to why he is wrong

on the last thing he brought up rockefellar and believed it would be good for people like him to rule the country because they know what there doing. when coincidently i was reading in my textnook about this very same person i have this to compare to what he wrote.

him-
Quote:
Rockefeller was good at what he did because he knew what he could and couldn't do and acted accordingly (by viciously eliminating his competition in a fair, capitalist way).
textbook-
Quote:
in the end rockefeller triumphed over his competitors by marketing products of high quality at the lowest unit cost. but he employed other, less savory methods as well. he threatend rivals and bribed politicians. he employed spies to harass customers of competing refiners. above all he extorted railroad rebates that lowered his transportation cost and undercut competitors. by 1879 he controlld 90 percent of the countrys entire oil refiniing capacity
"

this is definitive proof on the last thing but the rest are debates over economics and there are many different views, im explaining why what i said was right rationally

if you cant understand my explanations than i really dont know how else to help you, i mean it really just takes simple logic to understand what i wrote and why he is mistaken.

and miburo, this entire time you have not given your view on anything, you have not stated why anything is right or wrong, what you believe, your views, nothing. why dont you contribute, im sure people would like to hear your views on things, i know i would.

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Old 04-24-2010, 12:05 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AniMeFaN View Post
miburo i explained to you exactly why he is wrong, if you dont think its a rational explanation than thats on you because it is a perfectly rational explanation. there are people who are going to say the economy is great, the same people who said that the real estate bubble was not a bubble. there is nothing that sais this is the truth, there are different views on the matter, im explaining to you why this is the right one and it clearly is.
Doesn't matter what other people say. Other people don't effect what he's saying, or what anyone else in this thread is saying. And you explained how he was wrong with a rational explanation? Really? I guess I missed that part.
Quote:
he sais we have plent of money and were fine, i argue how can we have plenty of money and be fine if we have the largest debt in the world, we are continually running up this huge debt by huge amounts each year, how can we be fine if we cant pay it back, we are a consumer based nation with a huge trade defecit, if we consuming more than we are producing how can we possibly pay this debt back, how can we possibly be fin and have money. these are all rational thoughts as to why he is wrong.
I don't think he ever said those words in particular. He said we have one of the highest GDPs in the world. We do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._%28nominal%29

There goes your whole "He's wrong about everything" stance right there.

Also, you obviously don't know how debt works. I'll explain it as simply as possible. Let's say I have 100 dollars. I get a credit card and charge 80 dollars on it (Or hell, even 200 dollars or a billion, doesn't matter). I now have debt. Yet I still have money(100 dollars). HOLY SHIT CRAZY AMIRITE? Yeah, but that's how shit works.

Is debt a big deal? Sorta kinda. But I bet half the people you know, if not more, are in debt and do just fine. Mortgages, car payments, credit cards, etc. Yet they're still doing what they do. It's not the end of civilization as we know it if we owe some money. Cry moar about debt.

Quote:
he sais who gives a shit about the fed, i say alot of people give a shit, congress tried to pass a bill allowing the audit of the fed, the fed is a group or private bankers who have a printing press and can print money without an explanation as to for who and what purpose to the government, every dollar they print takes away value from our own money through inflation, they happen to be printing trillions, this is a big deal and alot of people care, these are rationl thoughts as to why he is wrong
The federal reserve can print money without explanation whenever they want? Surely you can provide a source for this claim, good sir?

Quote:
on the last thing he brought up rockefellar and believed it would be good for people like him to rule the country because they know what there doing. when coincidently i was reading in my textnook about this very same person i have this to compare to what he wrote.

him-

textbook-"

this is definitive proof on the last thing but the rest are debates over economics and there are many different views, im explaining why what i said was right rationally
You harp on nothing. At best, his analogy wasn't rock solid. It wasn't all that bad either. He didn't even have to provide any argument against that, and if you take out the Rockefeller part from his reply then you don't have shit on him. He could have just said "Where is your proof that there is an elite group of people manipulating the system in an unfair way?" And you'd be stuck trying to support you claim. Which was your claim. Which logically you have to support. Instead of nitpicking at examples, try proving your actual claim.
Quote:
if you cant understand my explanations than i really dont know how else to help you, i mean it really just takes simple logic to understand what i wrote and why he is mistaken.
It certainly is "simple." I'll give you that much.
Quote:
and miburo, this entire time you have not given your view on anything, you have not stated why anything is right or wrong, what you believe, your views, nothing. why dont you contribute, im sure people would like to hear your views on things, i know i would.
What would you like to know? Do I buy into your baseless conspiracy theory? No. You've yet to provide me a single reason why I should even entertain the thought.

Anything else? Do I personally adhere to LN's political beliefs? Nah, not all of them. But he makes logical arguments for them. My sign? Aries. My opinion of you? Poor. Dong size? Huge. I dunno what you would want to know besides my stance on the topic of the thread (Answer: It's stupid), really. But I'm flattered that you'd take such interest in me personally.

Oh, and I'm not gay. Sorry. = )
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:54 AM   #66
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Re: New World Order

Quote:
I don't think he ever said those words in particular.
well you would be wrong then because im taking his exact words in every arguement.

miburo you obviously dont understand how debt works because your examples clearly state that, if you have a $100 and run up a credit care bill of $1,000,000 than you are liable for it, they can take everything you own if you cant pay it, so you may have $100 but you legally owe it and everything else you own, the bigger problem is not the debt but that we cant pay the debt back, let say you spend $1000 a week consuming, and through working you make $500 a week, you do this for years and now are $150,000 in debt, how can you possibly pay this back, specially when all you continue to do is spend $1000, and make 500$. this has to do with a trade defecit the united states has, we get billions more than we produce, just adding the our debt every month, than we have the war and many other government programs sucking us dry of our money and costing trillions.

Quote:
I dunno what you would want to know besides my stance on the topic of the thread
miburo majority of your posts are just saying this isnt backed up, this isnt logical, ok look at the last posts made in this thread and why dont you comment on the topics we have been discussing recently in the thread, what are your takes about them with an actual explanation, we are not even talking about conpiracy theories anymore, the topic has shifted. what is your take on the new topics of discussion. i dont understand why its so hard for you to actually write something in the thread that isnt your not backing it up or your not using logical reasoning.

myself-
Quote:
he sais we have plent of money and were fine, i argue how can we have plenty of money and be fine if we have the largest debt in the world, we are continually running up this huge debt by huge amounts each year, how can we be fine if we cant pay it back, we are a consumer based nation with a huge trade defecit, if we consuming more than we are producing how can we possibly pay this debt back, how can we possibly be fin and have money. these are all rational thoughts as to why he is wrong.
miburo-
Quote:
Also, you obviously don't know how debt works. I'll explain it as simply as possible. Let's say I have 100 dollars. I get a credit card and charge 80 dollars on it (Or hell, even 200 dollars or a billion, doesn't matter). I now have debt. Yet I still have money(100 dollars). HOLY SHIT CRAZY AMIRITE? Yeah, but that's how shit works.

Is debt a big deal? Sorta kinda. But I bet half the people you know, if not more, are in debt and do just fine. Mortgages, car payments, credit cards, etc. Yet they're still doing what they do. It's not the end of civilization as we know it if we owe some money. Cry moar about debt
.

miburo wtf is that, its not even an explanation as to why i am wrong or mistaken, its i dont understand debt and your explanation of it and everyone has debt and most do fine so its not the end of the world. wow real insightful thinking there. thanks for contributing that.

Last edited by AniMeFaN; 04-24-2010 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 04-24-2010, 02:18 PM   #67
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Re: New World Order

Quote:
Originally Posted by AniMeFaN View Post
well you would be wrong then because im taking his exact words in every arguement.
no i wouldnt. u sais he sais things he doesnt sais. he sais we have high GDP and u sais he is foolish because u think he sais we have lots of moneys and r fine but we have debt so u sais he not kno wut hes talking about, lyke you think he sais we not have debt or something I dunno why u sais that. u sais alot of things that should not be sais if u were smart.

Ugh.
Quote:
miburo you obviously dont understand how debt works because your examples clearly state that, if you have a $100 and run up a credit care bill of $1,000,000 than you are liable for it, they can take everything you own if you cant pay it, so you may have $100 but you legally owe it and everything else you own, the bigger problem is not the debt but that we cant pay the debt back, let say you spend $1000 a week consuming, and through working you make $500 a week, you do this for years and now are $150,000 in debt, how can you possibly pay this back, specially when all you continue to do is spend $1000, and make 500$. this has to do with a trade defecit the united states has, we get billions more than we produce, just adding the our debt every month, than we have the war and many other government programs sucking us dry of our money and costing trillions.
no u dont understand how debt works!

You don't have to pay back all your debt at once, you know. You can also accumulate more debt and still be fine, so long as you're able to make payments. And since America has one of the highest GDPs in the world, like LN pointed out, we can afford to make payments on that shit. You'll understand it better once you're old enough to use a credit card, bro.



Quote:
miburo majority of your posts are just saying this isnt backed up, this isnt logical, ok look at the last posts made in this thread and why dont you comment on the topics we have been discussing recently in the thread, what are your takes about them with an actual explanation, we are not even talking about conpiracy theories anymore, the topic has shifted. what is your take on the new topics of discussion. i dont understand why its so hard for you to actually write something in the thread that isnt your not backing it up or your not using logical reasoning.
That's because a majority of your posts have you making claims you don't back up, or are illogical. Try backing up your claims and making intelligent posts and I'll have more to say. And I already commented on the 'current topic of discussion.' You were (ironically) saying LN doesn't know what he's talking about. He does. I presented an argument as to why. What the fuck do you want from me, kiddo?

Quote:
myself-

miburo-.

miburo wtf is that, its not even an explanation as to why i am wrong or mistaken, its i dont understand debt and your explanation of it and everyone has debt and most do fine so its not the end of the world. wow real insightful thinking there. thanks for contributing that.
I explained how debt works so you'd see that it isn't as big of a deal as you make it out to be. Because it isn't. And you can have money while still having debt, contrary to what you were stating, as I've showed. How is that not countering your argument? It is. Don't be dumb.

And sorry, we can't all be insightful thinkers and fine contributors to intellectual discussion like yourself. Please forgive me, oh wise champion of knowledge and understanding.
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Old 04-24-2010, 03:18 PM   #68
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Re: New World Order

Quote:
Originally Posted by AniMeFaN View Post
100,000 troops doesnt sounds like a small special ops group backed by some military enforcement, the fact is where looking for guys who are living in caves, they are operating out of caves. they are probably not in the country as we have not found them in 9 years, we are sending our country further into debt inorder to finance this war which majority did not want and still dont want. we have spent trillions on this war which has no intended timeline to end because we went in to the war undeclared in an unconstitional way.
100,000 vs. 1,473,900 (with 1,458,500 in reserve) (including all branches). That's a pretty small section of the military. Yeah... I think if we went into Afghanistan and those caves with our full, undivided attention we'd find the bastards.
Quote:
you say we actually have plent of money, our gdp is one of the highest. how can we have plenty of money if we have the largest debt in the world, explain that? explain how a country that is consumption based is going to pay off the largest debt in the world? explain how the counrty that is consumption based with a huge trade defecit can have money?
America's GDP is $14.43 trillion (source: CIA World Factbook). That's pretty fucking high. GDP isn't, however, how much physical money we have. It's how much money is produced. So, no, there isn't some vault with fourteen some trillion dollars. What GDP is (in a nutshell) a country's purchasing power. So, America can buy lots of stuff. You do understand that consumption is Americans (meaning the citizens) buying stuff, right? That money goes to the government, who really pays the bills. So, it's quite easy for a consumption based economy to come back full swing: buy more stuff. Thing is, most people think bad economy means to HOARD MOAR MONEEZ! but it's quite the opposite. National debt is very similar to credit card debt. Sure, you have debt, but you still make money, too.

Quote:
you say you can assure that war helps the economy,you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, you say amreica produced war time goods and made money in ww2, well that is because the were not the ones fighting the war, they just manufactured goods needed by countries in war, countries fighting a war never benefit from it economically, never.
America supplied the Allies with weapons and Germany and Japan with other goods (like oil). But supplying the Axis powers didn't last very long, thanks to Germany's U-boats and, oh, Pearl Harbor.

"Not the ones fighting the war?" Ever hear about Normandy, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Battle of the Bulge? Come on.
Quote:
you say who gives a shit about the fed, there are so many political figures and people who want to audit it and are against it, let me ask you how many recessions and depressions have we had since it was made (in 1913 i believe), how many before, you know why we had all these economic problems, because of the fed, this is why people want to audit it, thats why people care about it, its owned by private individuals who control the money supply and keep there precedings secret.
Want to know about a recession or depression before 1913? Okay. The South following the Civil War. Yes, that's a recession/depression. Also, the reason there haven't been any astounding depressions or recessions in pre-Industrial America is that America's economy was still developing and the American Spirit was in full swing. Not that there wasn't the Fed. Plus, the leaders of the Fed meet certain requirements. I don't know what they are, but I definitely don't trust your estimation of them.
Quote:
funny that you bring up rockefeller, im studying for a test right not, pre ww1, rockefeller happens to be mentioned in my textbook, let me quote my book for you
" in the end rockefeller triumphed over his competitors by marketing products of high quality at the lowest unit cost. but he employed other, less savory methods as well. he threatend rivals and bribed politicians. he employed spies to harass customers of competing refiners. above all he extorted railroad rebates that lowered his transportation cost and undercut competitors. by 1879 he controlld 90 percent of the countrys entire oil refiniing capacity"
Back then it was perfectly alright to do that. Hell, it was expected. That's real capitalism, none of this play nice bullshit. Competition is tough, but it breeds excellence and strong brands.
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Old 04-24-2010, 03:22 PM   #69
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Re: New World Order

Quote:
I explained how debt works so you'd see that it isn't as big of a deal as you make it out to be. Because it isn't. And you can have money while still having debt, contrary to what you were stating, as I've showed. How is that not countering your argument? It is. Don't be dumb.
miburo, you obviously dont understand any of what i said, the problem isnt that we have debt, its that we have debt and are unable to pay it back.

think of a business, it has revenues and has expenses, think of the revenues as our production and the expenses as our consumption. if our consumption our expenses are alot higher than our production or revenues than we will go into debt, if this same thing continues to happen we go further into debt and in the businesses case go bankrupt.

right now we are a consumption based country, there is a a trade defecit of billions, meaning we consume more than we produce by a number in the billions every month, so we go further into debt every month, then we also have government programs and the war which cost trillions putting us into debt.
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Old 04-24-2010, 03:50 PM   #70
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Re: New World Order

Quote:
100,000 vs. 1,473,900 (with 1,458,500 in reserve) (including all branches). That's a pretty small section of the military.
i disagree, i think that is a large portion of the millitary and would be nothing like a small special ops group.

Quote:
America's GDP is $14.43 trillion (source: CIA World Factbook). That's pretty fucking high. GDP isn't, however, how much physical money we have. It's how much money is produced.
gdp is the final value of all goods produced within the nations borders, but what if we went into debt to acquire tons of materials which were used to produce those good, majority of the goods were consumed by us since we are a consumption based country. so that would mean we went into debt to produce alot of good for our own consumption leaving us with nothing to pay back.

Quote:
Want to know about a recession or depression before 1913? Okay. The South following the Civil War. Yes, that's a recession/depression
agricutural part of the south was important to the economy, no slaves equals economic troubles.

Quote:
Also, the reason there haven't been any astounding depressions or recessions in pre-Industrial America is that America's economy was still developing and the American Spirit was in full swing. Not that there wasn't the Fed. Plus, the leaders of the Fed meet certain requirements. I don't know what they are, but I definitely don't trust your estimation of them.
the fed setting interest rates too low, printing alot of money, these things effect the econonomy, the market decided the rates before the fed and that is why there werent any severe economic problems like there has been since the fed has come into play.

Quote:
Back then it was perfectly alright to do that. Hell, it was expected. That's real capitalism, none of this play nice bullshit. Competition is tough, but it breeds excellence and strong brands.
Quote:
in the end rockefeller triumphed over his competitors by marketing products of high quality at the lowest unit cost. but he employed other, less savory methods as well. he threatend rivals and bribed politicians. he employed spies to harass customers of competing refiners. above all he extorted railroad rebates that lowered his transportation cost and undercut competitors. by 1879 he controlld 90 percent of the countrys entire oil refiniing capacity
this was not alright back then and is not alright now.
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Old 04-24-2010, 04:24 PM   #71
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Re: New World Order

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Originally Posted by AniMeFaN View Post
miburo, you obviously dont understand any of what i said, the problem isnt that we have debt, its that we have debt and are unable to pay it back.
Oh my god, you're a retard. I understood what you said, it was just stupid. We are able to pay it back, we just don't pay it all back. Because that's stupid.

Quote:
think of a business, it has revenues and has expenses, think of the revenues as our production and the expenses as our consumption. if our consumption our expenses are alot higher than our production or revenues than we will go into debt, if this same thing continues to happen we go further into debt and in the businesses case go bankrupt.
Retarded. Goddamn. Look, here is a graph:



One. Notice how we've had debt for a long ass time. Yet we still kick all sorts of ass.

Two. Notice how our debt currently does not exceed our GDP (Making your argument extra stupid). It did for a short period of time recently, but that doesn't matter long term. All that matters is that we're able to make payments on it, and we are. Since we have one of the highest GDPs in the world.

Three. Debt isn't static. You can pay off some debt, then acquire more. So it looks like we're not paying it off, if you're an idiot, but we are. We're just taking on more debt as we do it. Which is fine. Not ideal, of course, but fine. Like I said, most people you know are living with debt and they're totally fine.
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Old 04-24-2010, 04:34 PM   #72
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Re: New World Order

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Originally Posted by AniMeFaN View Post
i disagree, i think that is a large portion of the millitary and would be nothing like a small special ops group.
100,000 is a very small section compared to a potential almost three million troops. Also, that 100,000 isn't only made up of soldiers. You have to take into account the non-combatants, which drops the total number of infantry to even less.

Quote:
gdp is the final value of all goods produced within the nations borders, but what if we went into debt to acquire tons of materials which were used to produce those good, majority of the goods were consumed by us since we are a consumption based country. so that would mean we went into debt to produce alot of good for our own consumption leaving us with nothing to pay back.
...You don't get it, do you? Consumption means the government gets money. If the government gets money then they can spend more. If the government spends more then GDP goes up. If we consume more GDP goes up. If we invest in businesses GDP goes up. If a small business owner invests (HINT HINT) in materials to produce consumer (HINT HINT) goods then he's contributing to the GDP. Then a portion of his earnings go to the government (HINT HINT) who may be indirectly or directly supporting the company or whatever that produces the materials (HINT HINT) that the small business needs. Consumption-based economy works.

Please tell me what kind of economy you think we should have. I'm quite curious to hear what kind of socialist nonsense you spew at me.

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agricutural part of the south was important to the economy, no slaves equals economic troubles.
Well, now, that isn't the fault of some centralized bank, now is it?

Quote:
the fed setting interest rates too low, printing alot of money, these things effect the econonomy, the market decided the rates before the fed and that is why there werent any severe economic problems like there has been since the fed has come into play.
The interest rate, like the economy, fluctuates. The amount of money in circulation fluctuates as well. The Fed will adjust both of those when the time comes, but here's something to think about: it won't be a sudden change. The Fed cannot simply send out a message, "The interest rate will now be 5% and the amount of money in circulation is now $6,000,000!" It's a slow process, but it will gradually reach a point where recovery begins. Also, no one is going to be happy when the change comes. After all, any form of economic recovery boosts inflation. But inflation, like everything else in the fucking economy, fluctuates and will eventually drop. All it takes is patience and cooperation with the government.

Quote:
this was not alright back then and is not alright now.
Well, it was obviously alright back then because he, and many other entrepreneurs, was able to do so without hurting his own business. It isn't okay now because of this social gospel crap the politicians keep preaching about.
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:21 PM   #73
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Re: New World Order

miburo you are calling me a retard and saying you understand but obviously you are not understanding, i dont understand why you cant comprehend what im saying.

the thing is your arguement doesnt have anything to do with what im saying, you say are debt is lower than our gdp, do you know what gdp is?? gdp is the final value of all goods produced in the nations borders, you know why all that debt years ago wasnt a problem?? because we used it for production, factories etc, so we were able to pay it back, this time around all that debt we accumulated was for consumption, we borrowed money for consuming products, obviously when a ton of people borrow money and are willing to buy more products the producers are going to make more increasing gdp, do you think its coincidence right now that we have an extremely high gdp and an extremely high debt?? no this again is because we borrowed money to consume which allowed for producers to expand and make more products resulting in a high gdp.

problem is we have a huge trade defecit for the 100th time, we consume way more than we produce, the defecit is in the billions a month, so if we continue to live like this and fincance a war and other government programs that costs trillions we cant pay the debt back, its not possible.

lonelyninja- i agree, government gets more money when we consume alot, this is why gdp is so high, we borrow a ton of money to consume, producers make more products because we have all this money to consume that we borrowed, gdp goes up, than the governement gets income tax and all other taxes from the new jobs and business created to service this new money borrowed, which they go ahead and spend increasing gdp. problem is government has no money, all their money comes from us, all their programs have lost trillions, the war cost trillions, government spending is huggggge.

trust me im not for socialism, i want capitalism.

the fed cant predict the market, they cant just adjust interest rates and get it right, the market could do a much better job determining the interest rates.
why do you think we had the housing bubble, the interest rates were too low, creating all this cheap money that was borrowed for investment in realestate. it was not the market dictating where the money would go it was the fed, also the lenders were to blame for there aritficially low lending standards.

and on rockefellar, i say those things he did he should have been arrested for, they are not alright.

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Old 04-24-2010, 07:41 PM   #74
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Re: New World Order

I'm not even going to bother explaining to you what exactly a GDP means or anything. It would be pointless. Instead, I'll just go by exactly what you 'sais' and show where you're totally contradicting yourself. Then let you fumble about and try to explain it, while I lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AniMeFaN View Post
gdp is the final value of all goods produced in the nations borders,
You just said that GDP = total value of all goods PRODUCED in the nation.

Quote:
problem is we have a huge trade defecit for the 100th time, we consume way more than we produce,
Now you're saying, for the 100th time, that we consume more than we produce. Yet our GDP (total value of goods produced, according to you) is greater than out total debt.

And according to you, our debt is from:
Quote:
all that debt we accumulated was for consumption, we borrowed money for consuming products, obviously when a ton of people borrow money and are willing to buy more products the producers are going to make more increasing gdp
Consumption. We borrow money to consume.

So according to you:

Debt = consumption.
GDP = Production.

And the problem we have, which you said 100 times, is that our consumption is greater than our production.

Yet the graph I posted (And I can get a ton more sources if necessary), states the opposite. Our production (GDP according to you) is greater than our consumption (debt according to you). So the problem we have, according to you, doesn't even exist.

Explain this blatant contradiction to me, oh grand sage of economics.
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:59 PM   #75
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Re: New World Order

our production value of final goods(gdp) is greater than our debt because we used that debt to consume those goods, which will expand production to service that new demand for goods thanks to that debt.

debt does not equal consumption, i never said that, i said people went into debt to consume, i never claimied debt is larger then gdp.

i claimed their is a trade defecit of billions a month, meaning there are tons of products coming in from other countries, way moer than leaving, NOW THE BIG QUESTION, WHY DO WE HAVE A TRADE DEFICIT?? BECAUSE WE CONSUME MORE THAN WE PRODUCE

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