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Old 06-17-2010, 11:34 PM   #781
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Originally Posted by Ero-Sage View Post
I spent two pages arguing with miburo about homos. I'm kinda over it. Its clear you all are gay sympathizers, I get it. I'm obviously not going to change any minds here. You should feel the same about me. Therefor your just posting shit to try and make yourselves feel smarter. Congratulations. Consider yourselves elite internet minds.

When I said unnatural I was referring to the natural purpose for sex which is procreation. Not getting each other off and acting with no intellectual restraint when it comes to perverted sexual desire like some wild animal. All you did by bringing up wild animals gaying it up was equate homo behavior to that of a wild animal.

Also that fact that you cherry picked this out of everything I previously wrote is expected. The main theme behind what I was saying to Mibs is that gays choose to be gay (and don't go spouting off junk science about them being born that way its simply not true) and then cry about inequality and civil rights. If I choose to be something society, in general, disregards then I should just accept it and face the consequence of my decisions and actions. Not make the majority bend to my perversion by changing laws when the equivalency is already there just under a different name, ie; marraige/civil unions. That screams of justifying your actions instead of being responsible for them You cannot lump gays in with blacks and other minorities saying its a civil rights issue. Nobody is denying them rights to anything. They're just crying cause society, in general, won't accept their behavior and they seek justification for it.

Like I've said before, I've got no problem with people being gay. Only that they're crybabies about the choices they make. I believe in self responsibility and being held accountable for your actions and not crying and finding justifications for them.

Again, I'm over it, so tear me up all you want and make yourselves feel good. You most likely will not get another response out of me on this topic. I come from a conservative religious point of view and I understand that to you some of my arguments here are illogical, because the very nature of religion is illogical. There is no room for logic when it comes to the sovereignty of God. I believe in Him and the order he has set. I could honestly care less what you think on the matter.
Considering you spent a large amount of time arguing with everyone else, you obviously do otherwise your post would be something like this: "You're all gonna burn in hell fag-lovers, cpas."

No offense, but your religion is pants-on-head retarded. The order "he" has set? By that you mean centuries of ultra-conservative church fathers who have set up a system to maximize their power? By "his" word do you mean the Bible that was edited by thousands of mortals and translated into a hundred different languages?

Call me foolish, but if history proves anything, it's religion is a fad. I am sure German and Celtic paganists thought their multi-god pantheon was "the way" as well before the Romans introduced Christianity to them via slaughter and conquest. Clearly if the Christian god was THE god, such empires as Ancient Rome, Persia, China and Greece would never have existed, being corrupt pagans. Oh wait, they did. Indeed, christian society only began flourishing AFTER the enlightenment essentially destroyed theocracy.

As with most religious people, pick up a history book.
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:02 AM   #782
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

About what I would expect from a group of non-religious heathens. I'd be willing to bet that none of you were brought up with ANY religious background so I don't really expect any of you to have a chance or even be willing to empathize about where I'm coming from. You just come off sounding like a group of vulcans. That is Illogical, your beliefs aren't logical. To all of you my God is some sort of magical being that nobody can prove to exist through logic or first hand evidence. So you conclude that He doesn't exist and that I'm retarded. None of you understand what it means to live by faith. Don't get me wrong though, I'm don't hold it against any of you cause, straight up, you all just CAN"T relate. No religion makes sense when approached from a logical point of view. If you live your life solely by logic then you will be left empty. I was raised in my religion and rebelled against it questioning the very nature of it like a lot of you but things came around full circle and now my faith is resolute. The very open mind you ask of me to accept homosexual acts you yourselves are not willing to offer to me so that leaves us at a stalemate.

Its painfully obvious none of you are capable or even willing to see someone elses point of view as valid for themselves. You all are just here to prove yourselves right at all costs with no regard for others beliefs. You're all arrogant and have no sense of humility. If my opinion can't be respected by you then I'll just keep it to myself from now on. Thank you for the conversation and good day to you all. No need to go to caps and scream burn in hell as you all will eventually if you choose to keep the same path as now. Shit, I might just be there with you seeing as I have my own problems and vices to deal with. Fortunately I have faith and forgiveness on my side. Peace.
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:51 AM   #783
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Sage View Post
About what I would expect from a group of non-religious heathens. I'd be willing to bet that none of you were brought up with ANY religious background so I don't really expect any of you to have a chance or even be willing to empathize about where I'm coming from. You just come off sounding like a group of vulcans. That is Illogical, your beliefs aren't logical. To all of you my God is some sort of magical being that nobody can prove to exist through logic or first hand evidence. So you conclude that He doesn't exist and that I'm retarded. None of you understand what it means to live by faith. Don't get me wrong though, I'm don't hold it against any of you cause, straight up, you all just CAN"T relate. No religion makes sense when approached from a logical point of view. If you live your life solely by logic then you will be left empty. I was raised in my religion and rebelled against it questioning the very nature of it like a lot of you but things came around full circle and now my faith is resolute. The very open mind you ask of me to accept homosexual acts you yourselves are not willing to offer to me so that leaves us at a stalemate.
I was raised as a catholic and attended a catholic school preschool-7th grade. So good call on that one. And I have no problem with religious people. Believe in whatever stupid fairytales you like. I won't hold it against you.

However, I do have a problem with stupid people. If being gay is against your religion, then cool. Don't be gay. Problem solved.

Belittling people who harm no one in any way whatsoever for no good reason, and by that I mean no logical reason since that is the only universal way of interacting with people in a society, is stupid. It's not like being mean to stupid people, since stupidity and irrationality cause people harm. Some people loving people of the same sex in the same way you and I do it with the opposite sex causes no harm.


Quote:
Its painfully obvious none of you are capable or even willing to see someone elses point of view as valid for themselves. You all are just here to prove yourselves right at all costs with no regard for others beliefs. You're all arrogant and have no sense of humility. If my opinion can't be respected by you then I'll just keep it to myself from now on. Thank you for the conversation and good day to you all. No need to go to caps and scream burn in hell as you all will eventually if you choose to keep the same path as now. Shit, I might just be there with you seeing as I have my own problems and vices to deal with. Fortunately I have faith and forgiveness on my side. Peace.
I always see someone else's point of view. That's why I'm pretty much always right about everything. I seriously consider all opposing arguments, and even any potential counter-arguments to shit I post. If any of it makes sense, then I don't argue against it.

I did the same thing here. And your argument didn't make any sense, because it's stupid. Your religion is against fags. But your religion isn't the absolute objective moral law, and the stance you're saying it takes cannot be debated in a logical way. So why should people take it seriously? They shouldn't. Because it's stupid.

All you did in this post was further prove this point. You presented no reason why anyone should take what you say seriously; no reason why anyone should respect your opinions. You just called everyone heathens and said they're going to hell. While hypocritically saying they're arrogant and have no sense of humility. No "You guys are right, logically my shit is stupid." No humbleness or sense of humility. Just "LOL Lyke u gaiz are INCAPABLE OF FATHOMING what it is like to blindly believe in something for no rational reason whatsoever! Heathen fag sympathizers! You're going to hell. Hurrr!" masked in a transparent attempt to pretend to have some moral high-ground.


tl;dr=Way to be gay for jesus, stupid christfag.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:49 AM   #784
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Sage View Post
About what I would expect from a group of non-religious heathens. I'd be willing to bet that none of you were brought up with ANY religious background so I don't really expect any of you to have a chance or even be willing to empathize about where I'm coming from. You just come off sounding like a group of vulcans. That is Illogical, your beliefs aren't logical. To all of you my God is some sort of magical being that nobody can prove to exist through logic or first hand evidence. So you conclude that He doesn't exist and that I'm retarded. None of you understand what it means to live by faith. Don't get me wrong though, I'm don't hold it against any of you cause, straight up, you all just CAN"T relate. No religion makes sense when approached from a logical point of view. If you live your life solely by logic then you will be left empty. I was raised in my religion and rebelled against it questioning the very nature of it like a lot of you but things came around full circle and now my faith is resolute. The very open mind you ask of me to accept homosexual acts you yourselves are not willing to offer to me so that leaves us at a stalemate.
I may be a "non-religious heathen", as you so elegantly put it, but don't think I don't know where you're coming from. My entire family has religious backgrounds, but I was given the choice to adopt a faith or not. I was never baptized, because my parents didn't want to force me into a belief I didn't believe in. I was involved in church when I was younger. But then I had a world history class and realized how fucking hypocritical Christianity and Catholicism really are. You spout about "tolerance" and "good will towards men" but when someone doesn't believe the same thing you do, they are heathens and will "burn in hell" for their "sins". Or, as history has been able to prove, you will simply invade a people of another faith, force them to accept that your "God" is the one true "God", or execute them for not conforming to your ways. That seems pretty tolerant to me.

For a while I followed a pagan belief known as Wicca. To me, aside from atheism, that religion makes the most sense as it was based in nature, not on a single all powerful, and supposedly all forgiving, being that has no evidence to back the existence of. I say "supposedly all forgiving" because if your "God" was truly all forgiving, then there wouldn't be a place like "Hell" for sinners to go, because their sins would be forgiven when they died. Like Christianity, it preached for goodwill towards others, but it did it in a way that made sense. The "goodwill towards others" aspect was known as the "Rule of Three" which basically meant any action you did, good or bad, would be returned to you threefold. Do a good deed, and you'd be rewarded with greater rewards. Do a bad deed, and pay a price three times greater.

Quote:
Its painfully obvious none of you are capable or even willing to see someone elses point of view as valid for themselves. You all are just here to prove yourselves right at all costs with no regard for others beliefs. You're all arrogant and have no sense of humility. If my opinion can't be respected by you then I'll just keep it to myself from now on. Thank you for the conversation and good day to you all. No need to go to caps and scream burn in hell as you all will eventually if you choose to keep the same path as now. Shit, I might just be there with you seeing as I have my own problems and vices to deal with. Fortunately I have faith and forgiveness on my side. Peace.
I'm very willing to see someone else's point of view as valid to themselves, when they have proof that that view is valid. But when a bible thumper, such as yourself, tries to convert me to their ways without regards to my beliefs, it irks me a little.

I bolded a couple lines because of the sheer hypocrisy involved. In the span of 2 sentences, you condemn us to burn in hell and then claim you have forgiveness on your side. Oh...my...god. Can you be so high and mighty to believe that? Seriously?
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Old 06-18-2010, 05:07 PM   #785
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

If Naruto and Sasuke were gay, and would have sex, it would basically mean incest. They are blood-related. I see a family/brother bond.
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Old 06-18-2010, 05:10 PM   #786
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

^ Shut the fuck up.


I was going to stay out of this, but you really misunderstand the relationship between God and religion and I've got a few questions for you, kael.


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Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
I may be a "non-religious heathen", as you so elegantly put it, but don't think I don't know where you're coming from. My entire family has religious backgrounds, but I was given the choice to adopt a faith or not. I was never baptized, because my parents didn't want to force me into a belief I didn't believe in. I was involved in church when I was younger. But then I had a world history class and realized how fucking hypocritical Christianity and Catholicism really are. You spout about "tolerance" and "good will towards men" but when someone doesn't believe the same thing you do, they are heathens and will "burn in hell" for their "sins". Or, as history has been able to prove, you will simply invade a people of another faith, force them to accept that your "God" is the one true "God", or execute them for not conforming to your ways. That seems pretty tolerant to me.
You're confusing religion with faith in God, and the actions of humanity with the will of God. Religion is bullshit; it has been used to manipulate people throughout history and is still used for that purpose today. However, it is perfectly possible to believe in God and not be religious.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
For a while I followed a pagan belief known as Wicca. To me, aside from atheism, that religion makes the most sense as it was based in nature, not on a single all powerful, and supposedly all forgiving, being that has no evidence to back the existence of. I say "supposedly all forgiving" because if your "God" was truly all forgiving, then there wouldn't be a place like "Hell" for sinners to go, because their sins would be forgiven when they died. Like Christianity, it preached for goodwill towards others, but it did it in a way that made sense. The "goodwill towards others" aspect was known as the "Rule of Three" which basically meant any action you did, good or bad, would be returned to you threefold. Do a good deed, and you'd be rewarded with greater rewards. Do a bad deed, and pay a price three times greater.
Why do you think that the existence of Hell means God isn't all forgiving? God will forgive everyone who acknowledges that they need forgiveness and asks for it.

Wicca makes the most sense, yet preaches contrary to the common knowledge that bad things happen to "good" people, and vice versa? Shit, even Hinduism makes more sense than Wicca in that regard. How does Christianity not make sense in its preaching of goodwill towards others?



Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
I'm very willing to see someone else's point of view as valid to themselves, when they have proof that that view is valid. But when a bible thumper, such as yourself, tries to convert me to their ways without regards to my beliefs, it irks me a little.

I bolded a couple lines because of the sheer hypocrisy involved. In the span of 2 sentences, you condemn us to burn in hell and then claim you have forgiveness on your side. Oh...my...god. Can you be so high and mighty to believe that? Seriously?
His belief of you "burning" in Hell is certainly wrong, as is his belief that faith and forgiveness are "on his side." So really, the only part that is even slightly correct is the "if you choose to keep the same path as now" part.
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:36 PM   #787
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Sage
Also that fact that you cherry picked this out of everything I previously wrote is expected. The main theme behind what I was saying to Mibs is that gays choose to be gay (and don't go spouting off junk science about them being born that way its simply not true) and then cry about inequality and civil rights.
First: FUCK you.
Second: NO, you stupid piece of shit, homosexuality is NOT a choice. Any cockfuck with even the remotest semblance of common sense would realize that no one would willingly choose to be discriminated and protested against. Yes, I totally chose to be a lesbian because I enjoyed having my father tell me I'd go to hell. Yeah, I totally chose to be gay because I wanted to be ridiculed by anyone and everyone I knew.

Yeah, that makes a whole fucking lot of sense, you bigoted prick.

Quote:
About what I would expect from a group of non-religious heathens. I'd be willing to bet that none of you were brought up with ANY religious background so I don't really expect any of you to have a chance or even be willing to empathize about where I'm coming from. You just come off sounding like a group of vulcans. That is Illogical, your beliefs aren't logical.
I was brought up in a devout Christian family. My uncle is a pastor. My aunt is the leader of the church choir. My mom was raised Catholic, spent the entirety of her grade school years in a Catholic school... but sure, I have no religious background. I do know all about your dumbass religion, I just choose not to be fucked with such ridiculous bullshit.

Our beliefs aren't logical? You're the one letting your life be led by a book written not only thousands of years ago, but also rewritten to conform to the beliefs of those cocksure new Christians who wanted everyone and everything to conform to their close-minded moral system. What proof do you have that, even if the original Bible was fact, the current one wasn't twisted by prejudice and bias?

Oh sh--That's right, you don't.

To everyone else: Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against Christians. I don't have anything against religious people. I just really wish some of them weren't so fucking ignorant.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:17 PM   #788
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

Wow,that was harsh Tsuna.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:30 PM   #789
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

By harsh, I assume you mean awesome as fuck.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:32 PM   #790
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

precisely
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:42 PM   #791
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

As many said, I have too grown up in a Catholic family. But more importantly I read the bible, the whole book. It's a great novel, it's an epic story of murder, betrayal and wraith of supreme being. But I must say I prefers the Harry Potter series.

while we are talking about Jesus and all that, why don't we retain the basis of his teaching? I'm not a religious man, but I'm a man of high moral standard. I don't mind you have same sex relationship, but I do mind I it is with an animal, a corpse or a child. Speaking of pedophilia, isn't Catholic priest who are still in a scandal about abusing little children? Haven't God smithed people in the past for those atrocity? Hell he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because they were conducting sexually devient behavior between consent adult! and now tell me there's a lawful god up there.

Why instead of those word don't we follow people like Plato or Socrates? They say do what all you want to do in the mesure you don't mess with others people's liberty. Live your life as an honest man not because you shall be punished in the afterlife, but because It bring so much good in your current life. Tell the people next to you you love them and they are important and the day you'll need them they'll be there. I like you guys, even though I think the surf's up team are sometime jerks they are still funny as hell and make this forum interesting.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:46 PM   #792
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Wow,that was harsh Tsuna.
I can't stand ignorant fucks, what can I say?
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:36 PM   #793
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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Wow,that was harsh Tsuna.
He got what he deserved for talking shit about things he thinks he knows about, but obviously doesn't understand at all.
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:04 AM   #794
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Re: Naruto's Homosexuality

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You just come off sounding like a group of vulcans, saying "That is Illogical, your beliefs aren't logical."
Fixed. I should have made it more clear that I meant those words as towards me from all of you. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Tsuna, sorry that offended you.

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First: FUCK you.
Second: NO, you stupid piece of shit, homosexuality is NOT a choice. Any cockfuck with even the remotest semblance of common sense would realize that no one would willingly choose to be discriminated and protested against. Yes, I totally chose to be a lesbian because I enjoyed having my father tell me I'd go to hell. Yeah, I totally chose to be gay because I wanted to be ridiculed by anyone and everyone I knew.

Yeah, that makes a whole fucking lot of sense, you bigoted prick.


I was brought up in a devout Christian family. My uncle is a pastor. My aunt is the leader of the church choir. My mom was raised Catholic, spent the entirety of her grade school years in a Catholic school... but sure, I have no religious background. I do know all about your dumbass religion, I just choose not to be fucked with such ridiculous bullshit.

Our beliefs aren't logical? You're the one letting your life be led by a book written not only thousands of years ago, but also rewritten to conform to the beliefs of those cocksure new Christians who wanted everyone and everything to conform to their close-minded moral system. What proof do you have that, even if the original Bible was fact, the current one wasn't twisted by prejudice and bias?

Oh sh--That's right, you don't.

To everyone else: Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against Christians. I don't have anything against religious people. I just really wish some of them weren't so fucking ignorant.
Are you saying your dad is a bigoted prick too? Or does he get a free pass.

Also, what original bible are you talking about? Are you talking about books from other prophets that were left out? ie;, the books regarding to gnosticism and other prophets? There's good reason that happened. The reason church leaders and priests decided which books would be cannon and which ones would be left out is because of how Jesus changed the church. Actually He was the start of "Christ"ianity. Before him people had to offer sacrifices in such a way it was nearly impossible to atone for ones sin to be forgiven. To fix that God came down in the human form, Jesus, and was the ultimate sacrifice as atonement for the worlds sin. Faith in that act and asking forgiveness now became the cornerstone for Gods grace, or ticket to heaven if you will. THAT IS WHY THE BOOKS THAT MAKE CANNON IN THE BIBLE WERE CHOSEN. Older prophets and the gnostics are contradictory to the meaning of Jesus dying for our sins. If your dad is a pastor you should really know all this already.


You don't have anything against Christians but its a dumbass religion full of ridiculous bullshit? Be honest with yourself and don't hide behind some flimsy apology at the end of your rant against Christians.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
1. I was raised as a catholic and attended a catholic school preschool-7th grade. So good call on that one. And I have no problem with religious people. Believe in whatever stupid fairytales you like. I won't hold it against you.

2. However, I do have a problem with stupid people. If being gay is against your religion, then cool. Don't be gay. Problem solved.

3. Belittling people who harm no one in any way whatsoever for no good reason, and by that I mean no logical reason since that is the only universal way of interacting with people in a society, is stupid. It's not like being mean to stupid people, since stupidity and irrationality cause people harm.

Some people loving people of the same sex in the same way you and I do it with the opposite sex causes no harm.


4. But your religion isn't the absolute objective moral law, and the stance you're saying it takes cannot be debated in a logical way.

You just called everyone heathens and said they're going to hell. While hypocritically saying they're arrogant and have no sense of humility. No "You guys are right, logically my shit is stupid." No humbleness or sense of humility.


5. tl;dr=Way to be gay for jesus, stupid christfag.

1. Obviously it didn't sink in. Also you say you don't have a problem with religious people and in the same paragraph refer to religious people believing in "stupid fairytales" priceless.

2. I agree.

3. I apologize to everyone I've belittled its not right and I'm sorry. My emotions get the best of me sometimes and being the odd man out here against a whole forum of people pushed me too the edge and I acted irrationally.

Leading people astray and accepting sin as normal behavior degrades society by destroying its morals. Thus harming people. It makes the difference between right and wrong relative instead of absolute. Its natural for people to want the world to be shades of grey cause it relieves them of guilt and accountibility. I believe in things being black and white and people being responsible for their decisions and actions. Not justifying them thus causing a slippery slope of morality which is exactly what is happening.

4. In previous posts I have said, that I understand my beliefs are illogical to all of you and even to me in that religion is illogical. All religion calls for blind faith which is illogical.

As far as the burn in hell statement...it was just a responce to what T6H said to me at the top of the page...post 781

In regards to humilty...You should go back and read the second to last sentence of the very post your quoting. (my last post)

5. This ties in with paragraph #1.

Last edited by Ero-Sage; 06-19-2010 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:43 AM   #795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Sage
Are you saying your dad is a bigoted prick too? Or does he get a free pass.
No, my dad's an ignorant fuck, too. ;D

Also nice job completely missing the point of my post. You assumed I was talking about why certain books were chosen to be published in the Bible and not others. That is almost the exact opposite of what I was referring to.

I don't give a fuck which books were chosen to be in the Bible, why they were chosen, or how they were chosen. The fact is that they are thousands of years old, and have been retranslated thousands of times over, by normal, imperfect humans who may or may not have been "anointed" by the church. My point was this:

Even if the books written by the original prophets were factual, what proof is there that the books we accept TODAY as the factual form of the Bible weren't also rewritten when the Churches had them translated, or mass produced? Who says that God's original "message", his journeys, even the words of his followers, haven't been twisted around by the bias of church leaders who may have demanded the written word be changed to heed to the whims of their new order? It's not beyond the church and government leaders to try to control the actions of the people through the "word of God".

THAT was my point. That totally flew over your head with an audible whoosh. Nice.
Quote:
You don't have anything against Christians but its a dumbass religion full of ridiculous bullshit? Be honest with yourself and don't hide behind some flimsy apology at the end of your rant against Christians.
Note: Christians = people who follow the religion of Christianity. Religion itself =/= people. It's perfectly "honest" that I can say I hate organized religion, but not the people who choose to follow it. Seriously, did you fail reading comprehension in school or what?
Quote:
Tsuna, sorry that offended you.
And speaking of flimsy apologies... What the fuck is this, then?
You go on a rant about homosexuals, then apologize for being offensive to me, a lesbian? If anyone's offering up fake ass apologies, it's you. If you didn't want to offend anyone, then maybe you shouldn't have opened your proverbial mouth in the first place.
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