RNB

But why bother with following a religion? Why should you love others? Why should you trust in a being whose existence there is no evidence for? Who is God? Why be a good man? What is a good man?

It is the fact that Christians never bother asking questions about their beliefs that bothers me. If they do end up asking questions, they forget about them when they realize that the answer contradicts their beliefs. It doesn't bother me like, "Oh, you are so stupid and get me riled up." What bothers me is that those kind of people are controlling the world, and unfortunately the ones controlling the world are much more extreme.

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"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus

KillerNN

Are those rhetorical questions you are asking me? If not. . .

I answered as best I can, and don't give a fuck if you agree to be quite honest. But I hope you can see what I'm trying to say.

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Nerox

I personally don't believe in a God, or any form of religion. I tell you why NN. After the early years in school, where we were told stuff of the bible in class, it slowly dawned on me, that God, as he is portraied in the bible, can not exist.
And even the books don't make sense to me, I hate especially Genesis. It is just so dumb.
I base my atheism/agnosticizm(sp?) on my own thoughts about the world. Seeing religion in the foci of history, astronomy, physics, biology, chemistry and geography, I can find no evidence for a godly being.
And of course, fundamentalist are even worse than overexaggerating christians...for example, there came a Jehowas Witness and knocked on the door. Since I never talked with the basterds, I thought, let's hear what he has to tell me. And let me tell you, those fucks are racists and fascists...

Well that on that. Also Hinduism & Bhuddism > Christianity.

KillerNN

If you guys have read my posts, and actually pay attention to what I'm saying - you'll notice I don't agree with modern Christianity.

If you ask me why I believe in God, I can't really answer that - besides for it is the faith I was raised on and decided for myself (I know many bible-thumping parents force it on their children) what I wanted to believe. I'm not going to stand up for Christianity, because I don't really care for the religion itself. Or Catholicism. I'm not going to continue repeating myself.


RNB-

Like I said earlier, its not a literal LOVE for the person. Also like I said, I try but usually end up not doing this. I could give a fuck about half of the people I meet.

Thats why I added (As stupid as that might sound), of course you wouldn't see it the way I would since I can't explain it.

What is God? Its a question I ask myself all the time, and to give you an honest answer - I don't know. I'm not going to sound stupid trying to explain what God is when I don't even know myself. I'll talk to my pastor and get back to you on this bro.

I can't answer that question for anyone other than myself, (as I've said multiple times I don't really follow an "organized religion" but my own beliefs about it, and what the Bible says) I don't see what anyone gains in me being a "bad man". I want to be known by my peers/friends/family as a man who tried my best to be good.

Again, I'm not sure how to answer this. I'll get back to you.

Mibs- No, like I said in my reply to RNB I wasn't forced to believe what I believe by anyone. If someone was raised a racist, they would have to choose between staying racist or deciding they don't want to be a racist, I was raised by my Mom who taught me the Bible and eventually I read it myself. I could have chosen to say "Fuck this fake shit, I want to be Buddhist/Hindu/Athiest/Agnostic" , but I chose to believe it and trust my faith. Do you see what I mean?

I respect both of your opinions, just disagree on a few.

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RNB

Are you saying that you should love others because you are required to? By whom? Is this person worthy of giving moral commands? If so, why?

Sorry, but "I believe because I believe it/have believed it" isn't a good reason.

If I asked you what a plane was, would you be giving a good explanation by telling me it is a plane?

You are missing the point. Why should one bother trying to be a good man, as in, what value is there in being a good man, besides not being a bad man?

Don't you believe in your morals for a reason? Don't you believe that your idea of man is right because you can support it with logic? If not, how can you know that you are right?

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"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus

Miburo

So if you were raised as a racist, you'd keep being a racist? Because, by this answer here, that seems to be what you're saying.


And, as a preemptive, being a racist in of itself isn't bad. It's douchebag racists that make racism seem bad. If you simply believe that some races are inferior to others, but don't let those beliefs negatively effect others, then it doesn't hurt anyone. There is no scientific reason to believe that some races are inferior just like there isn't any scientific reason to believe in god, etc.

The belief that some races are inferior to others is easily as logical (Or illogical, in this case) as the belief in god. Logically, even if you aren't racist yourself, by your stance we should respect the beliefs of a racist as much as your religious beliefs. (Protip: You're religious.)

KillerNN

I've responded to both of your posts in an edit.

And to be honest, I don't know the Bible and the true Christian religion as strongly as I should. I never said I was a strong ""Christian"" or a great ""Christian"", just that I do have certain beliefs. I can't defend in what I believe in as well as I should be able to, but I'm trying haha. I see where scientifically AND logically the Bible true Christianity can be "off", so I understand and definitely agree with some of what you guys are saying. I don't expect anyone to respect the religion, because its fucked.

But -

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Miburo

Of course I see what you're saying here. Thing is, it doesn't address what I said. Since I didn't think you were forced to believe in the first place. I assumed you chose to continue believing in what you were taught anyway, not that you were somehow forced. So this is irrelevant to what I posted.

So, still, by what you're saying here, if someone chooses to have racist beliefs that they were raised to believe, then that is perfectly fine? And that person's stance is worthy of respect? Because, still, that's what you're implying here.

If you think your beliefs are okay, then racist beliefs are okay. If you think promoting the idea that it's okay to believe in god is totally fine, then people promoting the idea that believing some people are better than others because of their skin color should be totally fine too. If having illogical beliefs is okay, then that should apply to ALL illogical beliefs.

Why should your beliefs be respected, but harmless racist beliefs shouldn't? Or should they both be respected? (If so, why?) Or are both unworthy of respect? Just trying to help you, and possibly others, find a way to discuss your beliefs rationally.

Sensei-Q

Fuck, I never thought of it that way. I have much to learn.

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KillerNN

I don't promote my beliefs, or even try to get people to believe them. Also, I've said this in almost every single post I've made in this thread and hopefully this will make it clear. I don't believe or follow the dumb ass beliefs most "Christians" follow today, (your going to hell if your bad, fuck non-Christians, Jews are bad) I have my own beliefs that I take from the Bible without all the negative shit Christians have shown throughout history. Also, what may seem illogical to one who believes the Bible and everything associated with it is false, might not seem illogical to someone raised on Bible faith. Obviously, a racist believes its logical to dislike someone of a different ethnicity, or skin color and us non-racists see that as illogical. It really depends on the point of view that you are given, and decide to act on. I think its pretty well known (and if not) I have damn good logic. To me, my beliefs are logical while to you they are stupid and illogical and again ; I respect that (as dumb Christians have made it hard for the religion to even SEEM LOGICAL ((UR G0IN 2 HELL N0NBEELEEVER)) <because of shit like this) .

I don't expect you to respect my beliefs, just as I don't respect (even though harmless) racist belief. And I know you are trying to help me, but where have I discussed my beliefs irrationally? My first post in this thread was #310, and I was insulting the idiots posting in this thread - not forcing what I believe on anyone. I didn't ask to join this stupid FC or even discuss Christianity initially. But,I appreciate your help bro.

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RNB

Logic actually depends on whether something agrees with something else or contradicts it. There is no personal experience to logic. If you told us of the personal experience that is the basis for your "logical" belief in God, and it is logical, then we are forced to accept it.

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"Nature loves to be hidden."

- Heraclitus

Miburo

I wasn't implying that you're trying to get others to believe what you believe. I'm saying that you're stating your beliefs here publicly, and (Unless I'm mistaken) you believe your beliefs to not be irrational. As shown through your defense of them via responding to RNB and myself. That's what I mean.

Yeah, I know. In regards to you, I'm talking about your beliefs.

Key word in here is "seems." If you think something is logical, and I don't, then one of us has to be wrong. We can't both be right.
I don't think you have poor logic. Which is why I'm not making fun of you and being condescending and whatnot. Again, I'm not lumping you in with all Christians. I'm talking about your personal beliefs specifically. How are they more logical than a racist thinking that one race is superior to other races? What makes your personal beliefs have more merit?

Right now.

You believe in god and follow a personal interpretation of what you believe Christianity really is. How are these personal beliefs of yours different than those of a racist's beliefs in regards to rationality? How can you not respect a racist's beliefs when your own beliefs are equally irrational? What differentiates the two, in regards to logic?

Mal

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerNN Christianity isn't even Christianity any more. When I was a little kid, I would ask my mom "Ma what religion are we? Are we religious?" she would always say "No Zay, we are followers of Christ." I never understood until I grew older, Christianity is skewed and has a distorted view of what it SHOULD be. That Gandhi quote is amazing Mal. Fuck dumb Christians, and screw stupid organized religion.

I love your mom.


Mibs and RNB, I am just about finished reading a book titled Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis. If you have not read it, please do and tell me what you think of it. It's a fairly short read, but you've really got to be focused on it. C. S. Lewis does a fantastic job of illustrating basic Christian beliefs and the nature of God, so it may help both of you to get an understanding of where NN and I are coming from that he and I can't explain for ourselves.

Vanity

What questions? Van might be able to answer.

I see a few but if there's more it'd be nice to have them repeated so I don't have to sift.

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My nerves are bad to-night.
Yes, bad.

Stay with me.

Speak to me.
Why do you never speak?

Speak.
What are you thinking of?

What thinking?
What?

I never know what you are thinking.

Think.

kael03

Where do babies come from?