Minnesota Mom Hit With $1.5 Million Fine for Downloading 24 Songs - Page 2

ACt · 11-07-2010, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miburo

Not to nitpick, but I didn't get that from the article. Except the last part. I see it as the record industry wants to use the case to set an example to anyone who shares music (Copyright infringement), even only a couple of songs. Basically they're thinking this will make people shit their pants and stop downloading shit. And probably to set a legal precedent too, I'm sure. And her defense is basically that the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Or, in other words, it's fucking ridiculous. Which I'm sure any remotely reasonable person reading this would agree.

Fuck that - you deliberately mean to nitpick!! Which is fine with me.

I see what you are saying. I guess I got hung up on the argument the defendant made that she wasn't the one sharing. In any case, the overall result that the jury keeps hitting her for money (really - who's on this jury?? A bunch of Luddites and rock stars?) rather than dealing with the archaic system sanely is a bigger problem for the American judicial system. Who was that guy who wanted millions for his lost suit?

ask me anything · 11-07-2010, 07:13 PM

Primarily the RIAA is just trying to make an example of this woman, but the large fine is part of it. They offered to settle this case for $25,000 and an admission of guilt. From their point of view they can't afford to not force her to pay the fine, because that sends the signal that the record industry is a bunch a pussies that won't go after you. What would happen if they were to demand a fair settlement? According to the article the market value of those songs is $24 on Itunes. If that's all the courts made her pay, then internet piracy would get worse. People would just keep stealing shit and knowing their is almost no penalty except actually having to to pay if they got caught.

A comparison would be shoplifting. Everyone knows it's wrong, but lots of people do it. Hell I do it all the time. I was stealing some Tylenol at my local grocery store one time (I'm not paying $5 for that shit), and this women had got caught stealing steaks by the store manager. She had them in her purse, and the guy couldn't legally search her purse, so he made a compromise with her. If she handed over the steaks and left the store he wouldn't press charges. Mainly because the guy hates having to appear in court to testify and shit (I know this guy personally btw). So she was like "cool", and handed the steaks over and left. Do you think that deterred her any. Hell no. I saw her stealing shit that next week.

Where I live the penalty for shoplifting is reimbursement to the store for the amount of the items stolen + $250 court fee, and maybe some community service if you're a repeat offender. It's not exactly a harsh law, but to me that's a fair punishment for the crime. I sure as hell wouldn't want to pay $250 over some $25 ribeye steaks. Not unless I was just good at stealing shit, like most recurring shoplifters are. Most kids get caught once and never do that shit again. It's the same with the record industry. If the record industry had done the same thing with this women it would have been alright. Slap her with $1000 fine and send her on her way, and consistently enforce the law on everybody. That would scare away to casual downloader, and mean more profit back in the pocket of the greedy record labels, while the hardcore pirates would do so at their own risks. That is...justice.

Sensei-Q · 11-07-2010, 07:23 PM

That depends on which provider you're on. I download at least 500mb a day worth of music and games/software. Never got caught.

**Mal** · 11-07-2010, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ask me anything

I was stealing some Tylenol at my local grocery store one time (I'm not paying $5 for that shit)

Whoa dude. Five fucking dollars!? Who do they think they are charging such a ridiculous amount for Tylenol!? I mean, seriously, that's like half a year's wages. Shit.

ask me anything · 11-08-2010, 08:02 PM

^lol. To be fair though, I'm not so much concerned with the price. I just hate to spend my cash if I can ~~avoid~~ steal it. As long as it fits in my pocket, it's fair game.

**Mal** · 11-08-2010, 11:22 PM

Do you use the same logic for rape? "As long as I can get it in her, it's fair game."

ask me anything · 11-08-2010, 11:42 PM

I see what you did there, and logically the answer would be yes. Though there are other factors involved, like......getting caught. Prison time is a deterrent for rape. It's very logical to not want to go to prison. A small fine isn't going to keep me from stealing, since I steal way more shit then I'll ever get fined for even if I were caught. So I come out ahead anyway. That's a very logical thought process. Not that I ever get caught shoplifting, because I'm just that good. Plus most store employees around my area couldn't catch a cold if they tried, much less anything else. Motherfuckers charge way to much for some of that stuff anyway. It's only fair in my opinion.

**Mal** · 11-08-2010, 11:47 PM

You should write these rules down, in case you ever get caught and need to prove to the cops you actually live by these rules and aren't just making shit up.

kluang · 11-08-2010, 11:52 PM

Reminds me of a guy who wants to get rid of lesbian by raping them. The cops dont buy his story and now he's in jail.

Axiom · 11-09-2010, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miburo

punishment doesn't fit the crime..

^Sums up my thoughts on this lunacy. She "stole" 25 bucks worth of "merchandise". If she is to be smacked with a fine let it equal that amount, and end it.

@AMA
1st: I would not advertise the fact that you are a thief dude. Generally that is not something people consider to be cool. If anything similar to the following has ever happened to you then disregard my remarks.

Person A)"I steal shit because I can and, I'm entitled to it".
Person B)"Awesome please come hang out at my home with all my cool shit I worked hard as hell to pay for."

2nd:

Quote:

Prison time is a deterrent for rape.

I would hope that simply getting caught, and being punished. Is not your average joes motivation to keep from going on a raping spree.

**Mal** · 11-09-2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ask me anything

I see what you did there, and logically the answer would be yes. Though there are other factors involved, like......getting caught. Prison time is a deterrent for rape. It's very logical to not want to go to prison. A small fine isn't going to keep me from stealing, since I steal way more shit then I'll ever get fined for even if I were caught. So I come out ahead anyway. That's a very logical thought process. Not that I ever get caught shoplifting, because I'm just that good. Plus most store employees around my area couldn't catch a cold if they tried, much less anything else. Motherfuckers charge way to much for some of that stuff anyway. It's only fair in my opinion.

Who are you to say they are charging too much? Just because you're a cheap bastard doesn't mean their prices are ridiculous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axiom

I would hope that simply getting caught, and being punished. Is not your average joes motivation to keep from going on a raping spree.

You would be surprised. My university did a survey a number of years ago asking men "If you could rape any girl, and be guaranteed to get away with it, would you?" Nearly 70% said yes.

stubborn_d0nkey · 11-09-2010, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal

You would be surprised. My university did a survey a number of years ago asking men "If you could rape any girl, and be guaranteed to get away with it, would you?" Nearly 70% said yes.

Surveys can be helpful, especially for those doing them. However for people just reading the results, they dont mean that much without knowledge of the methodology. For example, without knowing the methodology it could be possible that most of the men in that survey were under the influence of drugs at the time (coincidence or not) which would effect their response to the question. You may find my example extreme or highly unlikely but it was just to illustrate why methodology (often) matters.

**Mal** · 11-09-2010, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stubborn_d0nkey

Surveys can be helpful, especially for those doing them. However for people just reading the results, they dont mean that much without knowledge of the methodology. For example, without knowing the methodology it could be possible that most of the men in that survey were under the influence of drugs at the time (coincidence or not) which would effect their response to the question. You may find my example extreme or highly unlikely but it was just to illustrate why methodology (often) matters.

Shut the fuck up. Anyone with even half a brain knows not to take survey results at face value. Even if 50% of the respondents said yes jokingly, that's still a disgustingly high number of possible rapists.

stubborn_d0nkey · 11-09-2010, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal

Shut the fuck up. Anyone with even half a brain knows not to take survey results at face value. Even if 50% of the respondents said yes jokingly, that's still a disgustingly high number of possible rapists.

Well anybody in OH would know not to take survey results at face value, but there are definitely too many light blues who wouldn't.

I am(/was) not saying that your point wasn't right. It is right, not just for rape but for most crimes as well. A lot of people would definitely do a crime if they could get away with it. Anyways, if that wasn't true there would be much less/no need for such a legal system present in today's society.

**Mal** · 11-09-2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stubborn_d0nkey

Anyways, if that wasn't true there would be much less/no need for such a legal system present in today's society.

Bullshit. We wouldn't need a legal system if, say, only 10% of guys would rape a girl if there were no consequences? That's idiotic. A legal system isn't only required if the majority of your society can't help but kill each other unless you threaten them.

11-07-2010, 07:13 PM	#17
ask me anything Simply AMAzing Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Impel Down Posts: 3,049 Thanks: 8,806 Thanked 3,360 Times in 1,496 Posts	Re: Minnesota Mom Hit With $1.5 Million Fine for Downloading 24 Songs Primarily the RIAA is just trying to make an example of this woman, but the large fine is part of it. They offered to settle this case for $25,000 and an admission of guilt. From their point of view they can't afford to not force her to pay the fine, because that sends the signal that the record industry is a bunch a pussies that won't go after you. What would happen if they were to demand a fair settlement? According to the article the market value of those songs is $24 on Itunes. If that's all the courts made her pay, then internet piracy would get worse. People would just keep stealing shit and knowing their is almost no penalty except actually having to to pay if they got caught. A comparison would be shoplifting. Everyone knows it's wrong, but lots of people do it. Hell I do it all the time. I was stealing some Tylenol at my local grocery store one time (I'm not paying $5 for that shit), and this women had got caught stealing steaks by the store manager. She had them in her purse, and the guy couldn't legally search her purse, so he made a compromise with her. If she handed over the steaks and left the store he wouldn't press charges. Mainly because the guy hates having to appear in court to testify and shit (I know this guy personally btw). So she was like "cool", and handed the steaks over and left. Do you think that deterred her any. Hell no. I saw her stealing shit that next week. Where I live the penalty for shoplifting is reimbursement to the store for the amount of the items stolen + $250 court fee, and maybe some community service if you're a repeat offender. It's not exactly a harsh law, but to me that's a fair punishment for the crime. I sure as hell wouldn't want to pay $250 over some $25 ribeye steaks. Not unless I was just good at stealing shit, like most recurring shoplifters are. Most kids get caught once and never do that shit again. It's the same with the record industry. If the record industry had done the same thing with this women it would have been alright. Slap her with $1000 fine and send her on her way, and consistently enforce the law on everybody. That would scare away to casual downloader, and mean more profit back in the pocket of the greedy record labels, while the hardcore pirates would do so at their own risks. That is...justice. __________________ Last edited by ask me anything; 11-07-2010 at 07:32 PM.

11-07-2010, 07:23 PM	#18
Sensei-Q ✪✪✪✪✪ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mijdrecht, Utrecht, Netherlands. Posts: 4,279 Thanks: 5,165 Thanked 2,904 Times in 1,711 Posts	Re: Minnesota Mom Hit With $1.5 Million Fine for Downloading 24 Songs That depends on which provider you're on. I download at least 500mb a day worth of music and games/software. Never got caught. __________________ "Science has made us gods even before we are worthy of being men." Jean Rostand

11-08-2010, 08:02 PM	#20
ask me anything Simply AMAzing Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Impel Down Posts: 3,049 Thanks: 8,806 Thanked 3,360 Times in 1,496 Posts	Re: Minnesota Mom Hit With $1.5 Million Fine for Downloading 24 Songs ^lol. To be fair though, I'm not so much concerned with the price. I just hate to spend my cash if I can ~~avoid~~ steal it. As long as it fits in my pocket, it's fair game. __________________

11-08-2010, 11:22 PM	#21
Mal Scotch Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,098 Thanks: 12,840 Thanked 10,807 Times in 3,835 Posts	Re: Minnesota Mom Hit With $1.5 Million Fine for Downloading 24 Songs Do you use the same logic for rape? "As long as I can get it in her, it's fair game."

11-08-2010, 11:42 PM	#22
ask me anything Simply AMAzing Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Impel Down Posts: 3,049 Thanks: 8,806 Thanked 3,360 Times in 1,496 Posts	Re: Minnesota Mom Hit With $1.5 Million Fine for Downloading 24 Songs I see what you did there, and logically the answer would be yes. Though there are other factors involved, like......getting caught. Prison time is a deterrent for rape. It's very logical to not want to go to prison. A small fine isn't going to keep me from stealing, since I steal way more shit then I'll ever get fined for even if I were caught. So I come out ahead anyway. That's a very logical thought process. Not that I ever get caught shoplifting, because I'm just that good. Plus most store employees around my area couldn't catch a cold if they tried, much less anything else. Motherfuckers charge way to much for some of that stuff anyway. It's only fair in my opinion. __________________ Last edited by ask me anything; 11-08-2010 at 11:56 PM.

11-08-2010, 11:47 PM	#23
Mal Scotch Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,098 Thanks: 12,840 Thanked 10,807 Times in 3,835 Posts	Re: Minnesota Mom Hit With $1.5 Million Fine for Downloading 24 Songs You should write these rules down, in case you ever get caught and need to prove to the cops you actually live by these rules and aren't just making shit up.

11-08-2010, 11:52 PM	#24
kluang One Punch Man Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,418 Thanks: 3,186 Thanked 4,657 Times in 2,099 Posts	Re: Minnesota Mom Hit With $1.5 Million Fine for Downloading 24 Songs Reminds me of a guy who wants to get rid of lesbian by raping them. The cops dont buy his story and now he's in jail. __________________ To err is human, to forgive, divine. Humans aren't machines... they have souls, feelings. They live, they die, they love, they hate... And yes, they even make mistakes..... When kluang finds you creepy and wrong then you are beyond horrible. He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you. Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Being Malaysian is about driving in a German car to an Indian restaurant for an Indonesian food, then travelling home, grabbing a Pakistani kebab on the way, to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American shows on a Japanese TV. Because we have no originality.

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