Nerox

Okay, I give you that point. But in this "hypothetical" scenario are too many "ifs". Like the strategical placement of the US. They are basically an island, and the US navy is the biggest in the world, no doubt about that. And the US air force is also bigger than the chinese, but the USA could not win a war on chinese terretory, and neither could China hope to cross the Pacific to invade the US. The argument probably stops here, because neither country would want a war to happen. But it is undoubted, that China will catch up with the US military in the next centuries.

None-the-less, I think China could probably dry the US economy up. China is the biggest exporter of goods, since they leapt ahead of Germany in 2008. And they hold so many stocks in US buinesses and the state, that I doubt the US could fight a war for very long until they would face an inflation and the following social problems.

Dagoro

The US can't be taken down. They have Tr-3bs and photon torpedoes !!!

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ask me anything

I am an American, and I am happy. Enough said. Oh wait, we have a new topic.

USA kicks the crap out of China. At least if we went back to fighting the way we use to; indiscriminately bombing the fuck out of people without concern to the civilian populations. That's really the only way to fight a real war. In Air to Air combat nobody touches the US. Most Chinese airplanes are either old soviet Migs that the russians sold them, or "originally" built planes they made by backward engineering those outdated planes with minor cosmetic changes to the exterior to make them seem new.


Idk about the chinese navy. I do remember reading something a while back that they were building a bunch of nuclear submarines and other stuff. I remember hearing somewhere that the US was cutting back on it's Naval spending because the wars going on, and military was primarily focusing on the Army and Marines. It's possible the Chinese might over take us in the coming decades in Naval power.

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Miburo

I don't think either one of us, or anyone here, knows enough about the intricacies of world economies enough to say anything in depth on the subject. I would assume shit isn't anywhere near as simple as that, and that china would hurt itself pretty hard too trying to fuck over the US economy. But I would honestly be bullshitting hardcore if I tried to actually discuss that shit any deeper than that.

As far as the battling aspect, I would assume the dudes who hold air and sea supremacy would have the advantage in almost all semi-reasonable scenarios. I don't have any experience in large scale modern battling though, nor have I researched the subject very much, so I'm just guessing here.

Dagoro

It is also a great way to provoke nuclear retaliation, eventually escalating into full out nuclear exchange. Which is why we stick to bombing countries that are not a nuclear power.

This is true. While Chinese students are studying till they drop and kicking the proverbial American ass in education, we're trying to waste billions on F-35s when our F-22s are eons ahead of anything anyone else is flying out there. What a sweet investment no ?

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ask me anything

If a huge war did break out, you think the Chinese would "smart bomb" american targets. I seriously doubt it. So it's only fair to play by the same rules. It's holding our troops back, and tying their hands with political red tape that would lose a war.

Fun fact (courtesy of the Pentagon): The longest range of any chinese ICBM is between 8500-9000 kilometers. While that's far enough to hit Hawaii and some parts of Alaska, California is over 10,000 kilometers away, with the rest of the country even further. US ICBM's have much further range, and have no problem hitting china. So they want a nuclear war. Bring it. It would kinda suck to lose Hawaii, but we'll survive somehow. A few million American casualties VS. over a billion Chinese casualties. Hardly an equivalent exchange, amirite.


If it means complete domination in the Air then yeah. Although I don't know anything specifically about the F-35's capabilities so I really can't say one way or the other. I've read up on F-22's though, and those are some powerful fucking planes. But I suppose the billions spent to get them were a waste of money too huh?

Not that it matters. Air superiority fighters are losing their importance in the modern Air force. While they will always have a role to play, it's become vastly downplayed, much like how the battleships have become more or less obsolete over the past decades.

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Dagoro

If a huge war did break out it would go straight to a nuclear exchange. The cold war was a perfect example of what is to be expected when two super powers, whom are nuclear armed have a stare down.

Fun fact: China has nuclear subs, which are platforms for nuclear launches.

China doesn't want nuclear war, nor a war war. In today's world everything is dealt with through diplomatic efforts of the international community. Unless Its against them Muslems, they has to diez !!!

Seriously, what is this American obsession with war scenarios ?

China is not out to get us, not in that way at least. They are gearing up to take us down where it really matters, in the economic front of tomorrow. Instead of weighting a few million American lives against their billion in a 24 inspired scenario of pew pew what we should be doing is pouring money into our education system so we're not left in the dust in this decade in terms of Engineering/Physics/Mathematics as most analysis suggests.

Considering the obvious fact that the money could be spent on more important matters such as education, out shitty infrastructure and health-care, yes. It is a colossal waste of money. Who are we going to use these planes against anyway ? ETs ?

Our enemies now rely on guerrilla tactics, and have zero air capability. This is nothing but pork for defense contractors. Specially given the fact that in 09 and last year there was a motion to consider selling F-22 technology to countries willing to pay since the F-35 was our next gen fighter and is superior.

Which only supports my position. Why build these fighters when drones can just as easily deliver strikes on the poor, ill capable countries we fight anyway ?

We spend more on defense than the next 15 countries combined, and for what ?

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ninjalostboy95

I completely agree with Miburo on the air and sea supremacy(Freedom of the seas FTW.) @AmA: You need to remember US is in debt to China, not the other way around. Countries can't really do much in debt(See Germany, right after WWI, around Treaty of Versailles, before Hitler) and would form a piss poor army without a good leader raising their economy and Obama isn't really that good(Stalin and Hitler are examples of good leaders though their unjust actions lead to their downfall(Holocaust=Hitler due to him being denied into an art school which caused him to hate jews because the people in control of the school were Jewish), well just one, the other died and still treated the people like crap(starved them IIRC) for "Five year plans" that actually helped the economy in the end.) Point is, China has the advantage in this situation since refunds and manufacturing of weapons don't come out of thin air. With economic advantage, China wins. If we disregard economy, US wins.

kluang

Do anyone remember the Cuban missile crisis. Both the US and Soviet put their nukes on full alert.

US technology in war is probably superior to China, but when they fought both nation will bombard each other with nukes. The question is how many nukes US have and how many China.

And the whole world will become like fallout.

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Dagoro

The US obviously has more.

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Miburo

Guys, you're totally missing the point:

My country can kick the shit out of your countries.

ninjalostboy95

Bay of Pigs?

No, they can't. There's a charter against using nukes. Also, considering Russia has the most nuclear heads and US is right behind it, US has more than China.

This isn't 2012 or some nuclear holocaust. Not happening.

Mal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoro China is not out to get us, not in that way at least. They are gearing up to take us down where it really matters, in the economic front of tomorrow. Instead of weighting a few million American lives against their billion in a 24 inspired scenario of pew pew what we should be doing is pouring money into our education system so we're not left in the dust in this decade in terms of Engineering/Physics/Mathematics as most analysis suggests.

A well funded education system is useless if the children in it have no interest in being educated. Future generations aren't fucked because they aren't having enough money thrown at them, they're fucked because they choose to be.

kluang

This is after the bay of pigs. Soviets are putting ICBMs at Cuba and US put theirs at Turkey. Both put their military and nukes to full alert.

Did China sign any of those charter? If there's war do you think China will follow those charter or will they go apeshit on their opponent.


That is deep

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Dagoro

Realistically speaking it wouldn't matter much in a war scenario such as this. But, as you pointed out it is not happening.

I agree with the bold, but our education system is lacking funding, and the funding it gets is not used effectively. But as you pointed out the change needs to happen in a social lvl as well, unfortunately things look grim. I mean just look at the country now, people were bamboozled into electing a bunch of people that blatantly admitted that they'll do everything in their power to derail the current administration, which will only hurt the people further.

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