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Old 06-01-2011, 09:44 AM   #16
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Re: Damon Fowler, Highschool Graduation Prayer and the First Ammendment

@ AMA: this is a simple case of "turning the other cheek" gone wrong.

Fowler could turn the other cheek to the situation and have his colleagues have their prayer. His colleagues could turn the other cheek and respect the moment of silence while still praying to themselves. His parents could turn the other cheek and accept the decision of their son, even if it doesn't match their beliefs.

The thing is, if Fowler turned the other cheek, he'd be an accomplice of an illegal activity (support of a specific religion by a public organization, which goes against the First Amendment), so he rather chose guaranteeing the legality of the graduation event.

So, what's the Christian response? Instead of listening to their own Messiah (Matthew 5:38-42; Luke 6:27-31), they harass him, threat him with death, publicly mock him and, the cherry on top of the cake, his parents disown him. None of this is illegal, but also none of this indicates that his peers have a good set of ethics.

Also, about "atheists being overzealous just because people mention God", you're mixing things up. I couldn't care less people talking about God, I even do it myself due to speech tradition, but there are places and contexts for it, and a graduation ceremony in a public school is not one of those places. If they wanted a prayer, they could just go somewhere else after the graduation and pray there. That way, those who don't want to pray can just skip it and everybody's happy, instead of causing a case of tyranny of the majority.

Also, about that little joke you made with banana, try to think what'd happen if the girl said this:

Quote:
Our heavenly Ganesh, we come here today with thankfulness and a grateful heart for the friendships and the memories that you have given us as the class of 2011. Even though, for many of us, this’ll be the last time that we gather together as a class, we pray that you will lead us, guide us, and watch over us through all of our endeavors throughout the rest of our lives. In Ganesh' name I pray, amen.
I don't think she'd get any applauses from the Christ-aholic crowd.

Edit:

Quote:
Actually, goddamn. Looks like this school has a goddamn Bible study course, for fuck's sake.
O.O

I have a distinct feeling that Ezekiel 23:20 isn't in that course, I wonder why...
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:43 AM   #17
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Re: Damon Fowler, Highschool Graduation Prayer and the First Ammendment

I've heard that Atheists are donating money to him for his college education since his parents are dicks. So not all bad news for Damon.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:34 AM   #18
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Re: Damon Fowler, Highschool Graduation Prayer and the First Ammendment

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkamaruChewtoy View Post
I don't see how that is hard to understand.

...

Naw, I lied. I know exactly why people find that hard to understand.
See... this is what I'm talking about:

Valedictorian fights judge's ban on graduation prayer

Quote:
SAN ANTONIO (Reuters) – The valedictorian of a high school in a San Antonio suburb where a judge has banned formal prayers at graduation ceremonies on Saturday is fighting for an opportunity to lead the crowd in prayer.

On Thursday, the North Texas-based Liberty Institute, a nonprofit that describes itself as seeking to limit government and promote Judeo-Christian values, filed a lawsuit on behalf of the valedictorian of Castroville's Medina Valley High School, Angela Hildenbrand.

"After all that I've been taught about the freedoms of speech, expression and religion in our country, I am disappointed that my liberties are being infringed upon by this court's ruling to censor my speech," Hildenbrand said at a press conference at the Alamo.

U.S. District Judge Fred Biery ruled on Tuesday that the Medina Valley School District may not proceed with plans to include an invocation or benediction at the ceremony, saying that doing so would make it sound like the school is "sponsoring a religion."

He said student speakers may reference God in their remarks.

Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott on Wednesday asked a federal appeals court to overturn the order.

"This is part of an ongoing attempt to purge God from the public setting, while at the same time demanding from the court increased yielding to all things agnostic and atheistic," Abbott said.

He said Congress begins each session with a prayer to God, and Biery's ruling would allow a student to "bend over in honor of Mecca," but not lead a prayer to the Christian God.

The case has been seized by both sides in the ongoing debate over references to religion in schools and in public places.

The judge's ruling followed a lawsuit against the district by agnostics Christa and Danny Schultz saying their son might not take part in graduation if he were forced to participate in religious activities.

Ayesha Kahn, an attorney for Americans United for Church and State, which represents the Schultzes, said earlier this week that the district "has been flouting the law for decades."

But some residents of the town of about 3,000 about 20 miles west of San Antonio, which still strongly retains the flavor of the French Catholics who founded it in the 1850s, object to halting the community tradition of invocation at graduation.

"My best friend last year said the prayer, and it was really cool that my best friend, who I have known since I was three years old, said the prayer, and now it turns out that she may be the last one to ever say the prayer at Medina Valley," Kelsey Johnson, who graduated from the high school last year, told Reuters.
The classic "by not letting me speak, you infringe my rights" ignoring the "by letting you speak, you infringe on others rights". Considering how important religion is to the US in everything, even to the point that a presidential candidate's church and creed must be known (and even hilariously questioned... secret Muslims all!) to gain any credibility, the religious of the US act like the most hard done by people when simply asked to keep their religion to themselves.

Even if that goes against the whole need to "indoctrinate the world" to their views. Very Christian of you.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:46 AM   #19
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Re: Damon Fowler, Highschool Graduation Prayer and the First Ammendment

All I have to say to that piece of news, ACt, is this:

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Old 06-03-2011, 12:18 PM   #20
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Re: Damon Fowler, Highschool Graduation Prayer and the First Ammendment

Amusingly, if you reorganized the graph to the monetary wealth each controlled in the US, I'm betting the Jewish would take up an alarming amount to pull close to even with the Christians.
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Old 06-03-2011, 12:26 PM   #21
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Re: Damon Fowler, Highschool Graduation Prayer and the First Ammendment

Quote:
Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around... and PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat.
Seems rather appropriate right now.
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:51 PM   #22
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Re: Damon Fowler, Highschool Graduation Prayer and the First Ammendment

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkamaruChewtoy View Post
......(once they did away with that whole aboriginal complication)......
This made me chuckle.
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