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Old 07-31-2011, 12:20 PM   #271
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Re: VS Thread

Fairy tail is not very impressive when it comes to destructive power. The spells can produce flashy explosions, but the destruction left behind is sub par at best. Hades has the best destruction feat, by blowing up a large section of the island the current arc is taking place in, but aside from that nothing really stands out.

Overall I agree with your assessment. I have different takes on Erza vs Choji, but I too agree that the Naruto side wins.
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Old 07-31-2011, 03:04 PM   #272
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Re: VS Thread

Well I had Erza easily taking out Chouji due to his massive size & lack of speed. I just don't see him blocking sword strikes with his bare hands. Same for Kiba though he is fast his attack pattern is pretty linear which would make him predictable to a combat vet like Erza. The reasons why Neji & Lee could fight with her is because of Neji's Byakugan & Lee's blinding speed while in gates.
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Old 07-31-2011, 03:11 PM   #273
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Re: VS Thread

True, I can see Lee and Neji fighting on par with her. They would be able to overwhelm her offensively but she does have a pretty good defensive abilities. We are talking about someone who has a shit load of armors with different abilities to suit her needs in battle. Together though, I can see Neji and Lee taking her down, that's the only way I can see them overcoming her quick changes from defense to offense.
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Old 07-31-2011, 04:23 PM   #274
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Re: VS Thread

Erza's best defensive armor is the one she used to block the Jupiter blast. Unless she brings that out I don't see any of her other armors standing against the blows from a gated Lee. Her speed isn't anything special either. Her fastest armor is the soaring armor ( I think ), and when compared to Lee's speed with weights off only her speed looks pretty shabby.
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Old 07-31-2011, 05:23 PM   #275
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Re: VS Thread

1. A bit of an exaggeration on your part concerning Erza's speed. Lee fought against a kid who doesn't move while fighting so of course he'd seem fast in comparison.

2. Gated Lee's punches aren't as strong as you're making them out to be. Erza has much larger destruction feats when compared to Lee.

3. Also don't ignore the fact that Erza can fly & move objects using telekinesis.

4. She's also one of the few mages of fairy tail that specializes in close range combat.
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

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Old 07-31-2011, 05:47 PM   #276
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Re: VS Thread

Quote:
1. A bit of an exaggeration on your part concerning Erza's speed. Lee fought against a kid who doesn't move while fighting so of course he'd seem fast in comparison.
With auto-defense sand. Even when Lee took his weights off he still needed to dance around a bit to bypass Gaara's defenses.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v10/c082/16.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v10/c082/17.html

Gaara's auto-defense is no joke, and bypassing it is no small feat.

Quote:
2. Gated Lee's punches aren't as strong as you're making them out to be. Erza has much larger destruction feats when compared to Lee.
While her feats against Edolas Erza are better than current Lee's ( in terms of destruction ), that isn't really relevant to the point I was trying to make. Aside from her Herculean armor, none of the others she has used are particularly high on defense. They won't be withstanding blows from Gated Lee, who is far superior in speed and has the close combat skills to deliver them effectively.

Quote:
3. Also don't ignore the fact that Erza can fly & move objects using telekinesis.
Her ranged attacks while in the air are not something Lee couldn't dodge for what I remember. She can chuck swords and shoot lightning based attacks with her lightning empress armor, but none are destructive enough or fast enough to nail Lee. At best that strategy results in an impasse.

Edit: Went back and checked some stuff, and Erza has a ranged attacked called morning photon slicer. Doesn't change my opinion though, it wasn't particularly huge or fast.

Quote:
4. She's also one of the few mages of fairy tail that specializes in close range combat.
Lee is also an adept master at taijutsu. Since it's impossible to gauge how they would fair against one another, since Erza has never fought against a taijutsu heavy fighter of Lee's caliber, and Lee has never had a real fight with a sword user ( discounting Kisame for obvious reasons ) lets say that their skills in close combat are equal. Lee still has a massive speed advantage, which gives him the edge.

Last edited by Dagoro; 07-31-2011 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 07-31-2011, 06:55 PM   #277
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Re: VS Thread

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Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
With auto-defense sand. Even when Lee took his weights off he still needed to dance around a bit to bypass Gaara's defenses.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v10/c082/16.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v10/c082/17.html

Gaara's auto-defense is no joke, and bypassing it is no small feat.
Sasuke & Diedara did it. My point was simple though the reason why Lee seemed so fast was because his opponent was very slow.

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While her feats against Edolas Erza are better than current Lee's ( in terms of destruction ), that isn't really relevant to the point I was trying to make.
She took physical damage that far surpassed what Lee is shown capable of doing. How is this not relevant?

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Aside from her Herculean armor, none of the others she has used are particularly high on defense.
But that doesn't even matter since she's shown taking damage that far surpasses anything Lee has done.

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They won't be withstanding blows from Gated Lee,
Bullshit

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Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
who is far superior in speed and has the close combat skills to deliver them effectively.
You keep saying that Lee's speed is that much superior but really what is this even based on? Erza shown defending against Knightwings Silfalion(sonic speed sword) while getting knocked through several buildings at high speeds yet was still able to manage a counter strike.

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Originally Posted by Dagoro View Post
Her ranged attacks while in the air are not something Lee couldn't dodge for what I remember. She can chuck swords and shoot lightning based attacks with her lightning empress armor, but none are destructive enough or fast enough to nail Lee.
What about "Morning Star Photon Slicer"(Basically a huge energy blast)? Mind you I agree that Lee could dodge basic sword throwing she also has different sword spells such as Circle Sword, Blumenblatt, Trinity Shot, Photon Slicer and Crimson Sakura.

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Lee is also an adept master at taijutsu. Since it's impossible to gauge how they would fair against one another, since Erza has never fought against a taijutsu heavy fighter of Lee's caliber, and Lee has never had a real fight with a sword user ( discounting Kisame for obvious reasons ) lets say that their skills in close combat are equal. Lee still has a massive speed advantage, which gives him the edge.
The speed advantage isn't that great. Erza can take a punch to the face however Lee can not take a sword to the face or chest. There's a massive difference in killing ability when you factor in edged weapons.
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

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Old 07-31-2011, 08:13 PM   #278
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Re: VS Thread

Quote:
Sasuke & Diedara did it.
Sasuke copied Lee's fighting style specifically to fight Gaara, and Deidara's bombs had the necessary capabilities to explore an opening in Gaara's defense through stealth and trickery.

Quote:
My point was simple though the reason why Lee seemed so fast was because his opponent was very slow.
Come on dude, you are grasping at straws here. Not only are the examples you gave terrible, but you are downplaying the Speed of Gaara's auto-defense in order to try and bolster your argument.



You and I both know that Gaara's auto-defense is very fast, and that Lee managing to outpace it was a great feat of speed.

Quote:
She took physical damage that far surpassed what Lee is shown capable of doing. How is this not relevant?
The herculean armor has an excellent defensive feat, but no offensive feat to speak of. She needs to use her offensive armors to attack, and none of them have impressive durability feats.

Quote:
She took physical damage that far surpassed what Lee is shown capable of doing. How is this not relevant?
Quote:
But that doesn't even matter since she's shown taking damage that far surpasses anything Lee has done.
Panels to support this ?



Quote:
You keep saying that Lee's speed is that much superior but really what is this even based on? Erza shown defending against Knightwings Silfalion(sonic speed sword) while getting knocked through several buildings at high speeds yet was still able to manage a counter strike.
I don't want to get into a speed debate based on the word "sonic" being present in that attack's name. For the sake of argument let's just say that Edolas Erza with that attack can and Lee with gates are equal. Edolas Erza was moving at a straight line, while Lee can maintain high speed attacks coming from all directions.



Erza has no feats to suggest that she can react to attacks like that.

Quote:
What about "Morning Star Photon Slicer"(Basically a huge energy blast)? Mind you I agree that Lee could dodge basic sword throwing she also has different sword spells such as Circle Sword, Blumenblatt, Trinity Shot, Photon Slicer and Crimson Sakura.
All of the attacks you named lack either the speed, or destructive capability to take down Lee. Some of them don't even have any feats to speak of.

Trinity sword ( If by Trinity shot you meant something else then links panel please, because I honestly don't remember it )
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...22/c192/6.html

No continuity, so unquantifiable. We don't know what it does since Mashima didn't bother to show it, just like with Hades and his Katsu spell.

Blumenblatt

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...8/c058/18.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...8/c058/19.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...25/c236/7.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...25/c236/8.html

Lee can dodge this. With his speed advantage and reflexes he can counter her initial charge, and should the swords come after he can simply move out of the way.

circle sword

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...3/c014/11.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...3/c014/12.html

Pretty linear slash. Nothing Lee can't handle.

Photon slice

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...22/c192/7.html

Beam attack that moves at a straight line.

We didn't see it's destructive potential, so that is unquantifiable. The beam itself is not very big. By eyeballing it, the beam was wider than Edolas Erza by a small margin. Lee can simply get out of the way. As for Crimson Sakura, it puts all of Erza's magic into 1 slash. However, it doesn't her stats in any way, so Lee just has to avoid it.

Quote:
The speed advantage isn't that great. Erza can take a punch to the face however Lee can not take a sword to the face or chest. There's a massive difference in killing ability when you factor in edged weapons.
Now It's my turn to call bullshit. Panel of Erza taking a punch to the face, comparable to the output of Gated Lee and then getting up.

Last edited by Dagoro; 07-31-2011 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 08-01-2011, 03:27 AM   #279
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Re: VS Thread

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Now It's my turn to call bullshit. Panel of Erza taking a punch to the face, comparable to the output of Gated Lee and then getting up.
1. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...07/c052/6.html Jupiter attack.

2. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...08/c064/8.html & http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...08/c064/9.html blast from Jose sent her flying back creating a crater in the wall.

3. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...12/c093/3.html & http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...12/c093/4.html getting knocked through stone pillars by Gerard.

4. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...22/c192/8.html Getting knocked through several buildings by Knightwing.

Lee doesn't have any real destructive feats. Anyway got tired of looking for Erza fights.
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

Wanna join me come and play, but I mite shoot you in your face. Bombs and bullets will do the trick. What we need here is a little bit of panic! ~ Get Jinxed

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Old 08-01-2011, 09:08 AM   #280
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Re: VS Thread

I already covered this. Her herculean armor has a great defensive feat but no offensive ones. She has to switch to a different one to attack, and none of her other armors have impressive durability.

Quote:
2. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...08/c064/8.html & http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...08/c064/9.html blast from Jose sent her flying back creating a crater in the wall.
Not impressive. Lee can replicate wall damage with no difficulties, you will have to do better than that.

Same as the above. Attacking with enough force to send someone through a wall or a pillar is a remedial feat. Lee can replicate it with no problem.
Quote:
4. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...22/c192/8.html Getting knocked through several buildings by Knightwing.
Seriously, getting knocked through walls is just not impressive. None of the feats you posted support your claims, that Erza can take a punch to the face from Lee, which he can deliver with his speed and taijutsu prowess, and get back up.

Quote:
Lee doesn't have any real destructive feats.
Again, you are downplaying Lee in order to try and bolster your argument.

Lee's raw strength.



Lee's destructive output without gates.



Lee's destruction out put with gates.



Power wise he is comparable. Erza has the big blast when she collided with Edolas Erza to her advantage ( in scale and not by that much ), but all her other feats are not ahead of Lee's, some are actually inferior.

I already explained why Lee has the speed advantage over her in my previous posts. Outside of Herculean armor, Erza lacks the feats to suggest that she can take on heavy taijutsu attacks, which Lee can deliver even to the exposed areas of her body with the edge he has, and get back up.
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Old 08-01-2011, 05:12 PM   #281
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Re: VS Thread

1. Erza can dual wield two Cloud Strife sized swords as if they were daggers. In comparison ripping tree root isn't all that impressive.

2. Destructive force you're showing of Lee is comparable to the damage taken by Erza that I've shown. Also Lotus is used while activating the first Gate.

3. The most destructive power shown by Lee is when he's running. His actual punches & Kicks are not shown to be as powerful. Destroying clay tiles isn't really impressive when compared to smashing through several buildings, & destroying stone pillars that are used to support a building.


Erza cutting through stuff effortlessly http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...14/c112/8.html. Think of what would happen if that was Lee's torso.

Erza blocking & dodging countless needles http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...4/c112/10.html. Just to give you an idea of her reaction time & capability to dodge hits from multiple directions.

Just a quick show of strength. Look at the size of the swords she's actually holding http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...4/c112/18.html. Metal is heavier than wood.

Erza also survived taking 200 bolts of lightning http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...5/c122/13.html. Does Lee have the destructive force of 200 bolts of lightning?

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...18/c146/4.html Let's see Erza taking energy blast point blank in the face.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...19/c155/4.html & http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...19/c155/5.html Just a small example of Erza's physical strength lmao.


If you honestly think Lee can beat Erza in a 1 vs 1 you're sadly mistaken. Lee's exaggerated movement during his fight with Gaara who didn't move around during the fight has been constantly downplayed in future engagements Lee has had. Against Kimimarou Lee isn't shown to have god like speed or strength. Against Kisame he did jack shit.

PS: Just for the lol factor Erza is also immune to genjutsu.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...9/c155/15.html,
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...9/c155/16.html,
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...9/c155/17.html, &
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...9/c155/18.html
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

Wanna join me come and play, but I mite shoot you in your face. Bombs and bullets will do the trick. What we need here is a little bit of panic! ~ Get Jinxed

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Old 08-01-2011, 06:52 PM   #282
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Re: VS Thread

Quote:
1. Erza can dual wield two Cloud Strife sized swords as if they were daggers. In comparison ripping tree root isn't all that impressive.
Again, you are downplaying Lee's feats.

A- The tree root was huge
B- He did it with 1 hand
C- It was his arm's length into the ground, the amount of earth he displaced was no joke.

Quote:
2. Destructive force you're showing of Lee is comparable to the damage taken by Erza that I've shown. Also Lotus is used while activating the first Gate.
Again, panels of Erza taking a blow to the face of the magnitude that Lee can deliver. My mistake on the gates for initial lotus, but it doesn't change my argument since Lee has access to that attack anyway.

Quote:
3. The most destructive power shown by Lee is when he's running. His actual punches & Kicks are not shown to be as powerful. Destroying clay tiles isn't really impressive when compared to smashing through several buildings, & destroying stone pillars that are used to support a building.
Erza's best destruction feats are when she is on the move, and using the momentum or augmenting her strikes with magic. Not all her slashes cause the destruction of her best attacks, just like Lee's regular punches do not pack the destructiveness of his gated strikes. That however is moot, since we are discussing their damage outputs, which can only be supported by their best feats.

Quote:
Erza cutting through stuff effortlessly http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...14/c112/8.html. Think of what would happen if that was Lee's torso.
Lee nuked the area where the exams were being taken, Imagine if that was Erza's face ? Not to mention those slashes are pretty linear, nothing that Lee can't handle.

Quote:
Erza blocking & dodging countless needles http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...4/c112/10.html. Just to give you an idea of her reaction time & capability to dodge hits from multiple directions.
No.

Evergreen's attacks were coming at her from the front only, and Erza only swatted away the ones that were coming at her body specifically, not all of them.

But, if you want to compared reaction time feats, here is Lee intercepting a squirrel and removing the explosive tag that was attached to it before it exploded, and the detonation had already been set in motion.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v06/c051/8.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v06/c051/9.html

Quote:
Just a quick show of strength. Look at the size of the swords she's actually holding http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...4/c112/18.html. Metal is heavier than wood.
When you factor in the fact that Lee ripped it off the ground with 1 hand, against the earth's resistance, this feat is not superior.

Quote:
Erza also survived taking 200 bolts of lightning http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...5/c122/13.html. Does Lee have the destructive force of 200 bolts of lightning?
Magical lightning =/= real lightning. Unless you want to claim that everyone in the guild have lightning durability, even though they have been taken down by far less powerful attacks. To further support this, the area around Erza was unharmed, as were the areas around everyone else whom were it.

Quote:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...18/c146/4.html Let's see Erza taking energy blast point blank in the face.
Not impressive. Here is Lee taking a sand from Gaara with far more destructive output than that blast, since it actually has destruction feats.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v10/c084/3.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v10/c084/4.html

Sending someone flying away with a 1 handed strike, Lee can do that too.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v24/c211/13.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v24/c211/14.html

In his drunk state his flexibility and unpredictability increase, but the force of his blows were on his strength alone.

Quote:
If you honestly think Lee can beat Erza in a 1 vs 1 you're sadly mistaken. Lee's exaggerated movement during his fight with Gaara who didn't move around during the fight has been constantly downplayed in future engagements Lee has had. Against Kimimarou Lee isn't shown to have god like speed or strength. Against Kisame he did jack shit.
You talk as if Kimimarou is weak. His skill in close combat was on par with Lee's, and they were pretty even prior to Kimimarou using his KKG. Against Kisame, sure, Lee had a shit showing along with the rest of his team.

However, Kisame is not weak by any measure of the word, and it took one of Gai's best attacks to take down a mere clone of him. Pitted against Erza's feats, that is nothing to be ashamed of.

Lee has the obvious speed advantage here, with far better movement feats. Erza can tank a huge blast with her best armor, but it doesn't really help her here since it lacks any offensive feats. Most of the magical damaged she has tanked aside from Jupiter were pretty lame, and you have failed to provide evidence that Erza can take a punch to the mouth from Lee and get back up.

Getting launched through wall and the ruins you mentioned are pretty sub par feats. Very remedial in any action manga, and Lee can replicate those given the strength he has demonstrated.
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Old 08-01-2011, 07:23 PM   #283
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Re: VS Thread

Its funny how you can continue to assume Lee has some unheard of raw punching strength(I've given you a number of examples of Erza taking direct damage while not using herculean armor) when really there's no such examples to actually be given. His moves for the most part are momentary burst of raw power in a kamikaze fashion. You talk of herculean armor not having offensive capability when in truth that doesn't even matter since Lee can only fight at full power for about one minute while nothing he's able to do is even remotely close to what Jupiter is capable of. You also forget that Erza can swap armors almost instantly switching between offensive, defensive, or agility based styles. Lee alone really doesn't stand a chance.
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Old 08-01-2011, 07:38 PM   #284
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Re: VS Thread

Quote:
Its funny how you can continue to assume Lee has some unheard of raw punching strength when really his moves for the most part are momentary burst of raw power in a kamikaze fashion.
False.

Lee has great control and reactions while under Gates. He struck Gaara, and pulled him back up for the final strike before Gaara hit the ground during his assault. As for the force that he can exert during Gates, does it matter how he does it ?

He uses momentum to multiply the force of his attacks. No different than Erza using magic to enhance her Sakura slash, or using Black wing armor to enhance her attack power. What matters is that Lee can deliver the necessary force, with great control, to Erza's face and lay her out completely. With his speed advantage he can pull it off, and with Erza's only reaction feat to great speed comes from a straight line charge it doesn't bode well for her.
Quote:
You talk of herculean armor not having offensive capability when in truth that doesn't even matter since Lee can only fight at full power for about one minute while nothing he's able to do is even remotely close to what Jupiter is capable of.
Herculean armor won't do her any good in this match. I don't do scenarios, I go by arsenals. An armor with no offensive capabilities will be useless in this fight. Lee isn't a retard, and her face is still exposed while in Herculean armor.
Quote:
You also forget that Erza can swap armors almost instantly switching between offensive, defensive, or agility based styles. Lee alone really doesn't stand a chance.
She can switch armors all she wants, her best defensive armor is still the Herculean armor, and her she still loses in speed with Lee's non linear movements, and all it would take to demolish her is a Gated strike to the face. unless you can provide evidence that she can survive something like that.

Edit: About Lee's bomb squirrel feat. He did it all before the leaf hit the ground, and the leaf was inches away from the ground. It makes his reactions even more impressive.

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Old 08-01-2011, 08:21 PM   #285
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Re: VS Thread

Out of bordem....

Scarlet using Flight Armor while Knighting uses Silfolion Sonic Speed Sword.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...22/c180/8.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...22/c180/9.html
But yeah Erza is slow as shit right?

Erza eating some more damage
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...2/c180/10.html

When destructive forces clash it destroys the entire battle area. Far more destructive than anything Lee is shown doing.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...22/c193/8.html

For LOLZ Erza taking punches to the face.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...2/c193/10.html


Erza's head getting smacked into the ground causing it to shatter.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...2/c193/11.html

Erza get's smacked around by a giant wood fist.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...5/c236/10.html

Erza taking direct explosion damage.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fairy_...5/c236/13.html

PS: It's fairly simple Lee uses so called trumps like Lotus which is not instant while Erza switches to Herculean armor. Once Lotus is finished she switches to something else like say Heaven's Wheel, Black Wing, Purgatory, Flight, or Morning Star Armor & uses something like Circle Sword, Blumenbatt, or Photon Slicer to quickly finish off the now injured Lee. Pretty basic strategy here Lee's best abilities actually put him at a handy cap while I've shown way more proof than needed to suggest that Erza can take a beating.
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
Check out this awesome manga called Magi.

Wanna join me come and play, but I mite shoot you in your face. Bombs and bullets will do the trick. What we need here is a little bit of panic! ~ Get Jinxed

Last edited by Vengeance; 08-01-2011 at 08:29 PM.
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