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Old 08-07-2011, 07:22 AM   #106
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Re: Jesus, not the first

The dispensations are different. Just like how God allowed the Jews to marry more than one in the past ages, cannot be applied now. Another word is 'Dynamics'. God is the same but the dispensations are different. Hospitals, Ambulance sevices, the police, and many more business are open for work 24/7 when most of these guys are xtians. Dont they respect the Sabbath day, they shd be stoned to death, by ur logic. Simple answer, God respects the various dispensations and ages. Lets take the Jews for example. women are placed lower to men just as @ACT said, and God respected it as such. That cannot be said now. Old things, dont apply now.

Moreover u totally ignored my Man's choices explanations. Man not only make choices that affect himself [Smoker that died from cancer - Bad, or chose not to smoke knowing it kills - good], but others as well [ Stopping for school kids to cross the road instead of running into them].

Why didn't God stop the oppression from the start? Simple, He can't. Not until the Jews made a choice to invite him to the party[done thru fervent prayers]. If He was so powerful, why didn't He force Pharaoh to let His people go? Simply, He can't. Why? He is sooooooo jealous. As long as he has become part matter, He wants all credits for the rescue and the egyptians to fear his awesome rescuing power and know that He is God [If he just forced him, Pharaoh would have taken the credit for letting God's people go whilst He[God] sits and watch].

If He was so powerful then again, why didn't he just FTG all Jews to a place He likes. Simple, He can't. Why? He had to work with the owner [Man, here Moses] as a medium to convey his intentions. Jealousy made Him not want to only take them out of Egypt but also take out 'egypt' from them. By the 10 plaques He was able concretise his power in the mnds of His people and paralyze the power of the Egyptian gods [which some of the Jews started to admonish]. This is just by the way.

The real issue is Until a choice is made to call on Him, He wont do anything. Every single intervention by God in the bible was made possible by Man to call him out.

@AMA. Discrimination u say? the Jews [God's chosen people] didnt come out of thin air. U know that already. If u dont, go read the story of a man called Abram and how he got the acceptance of God b4 making unfounded claims. Same story with the others u mentioned. Holocaust? The jews cursed themselves with Jesus' blood on them. With Christ's coming, God removed that label from the chosen people [bounded by blood - Jew] and gives it to anyone who believes that Jesus is Lord.

God be with u all.
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SALVATION PRAYER
O Lord God, I come to You in the Name of Jesus Christ. Your Word says, "...whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Acts 2:21). I ask Jesus to come into my heart to be the Lord of my life. I receive eternal life into my spirit and according to Romans 10:9, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved," I declare that I am saved; I am born-again; I am a child of God! I now have Christ dwelling in me, and greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world (1 John 4:4)! I now walk in the consciousness of my new life in Christ Jesus. Hallelujah!"

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Old 08-07-2011, 09:19 AM   #107
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Re: Jesus, not the first

So to sum it up:

1) god doesn't alter anything on our world because he needs us to accept him and love him enough first. So given that we are still suffering, it must mean despite there being billions who worship him, he still doesn't give a shit.

2) he allows the times to change and humans to change their world and accepts those changes - almost like he evolves, but how could the all powerful uber being evolve?

3) We need to call god out to do anything... except for the times that he doesn't, because I"m certain there are quite a few people who ask god not to allow them to be oppressed, robbed, raped, murdered, lose a loved one, win a championship, etc etc etc - does that come back to not loving him enough?

In short, super powerful being who knows all, sees all, can do all, doesn't do shit. Why should I care if he is with me? I don't see that he has any impact on life.
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:02 PM   #108
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Re: Jesus, not the first

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gakure View Post
The dispensations are different. Just like how God allowed the Jews to marry more than one in the past ages, cannot be applied now. Another word is 'Dynamics'. God is the same but the dispensations are different. Hospitals, Ambulance sevices, the police, and many more business are open for work 24/7 when most of these guys are xtians. Dont they respect the Sabbath day, they shd be stoned to death, by ur logic. Simple answer, God respects the various dispensations and ages. Lets take the Jews for example. women are placed lower to men just as @ACT said, and God respected it as such. That cannot be said now. Old things, dont apply now.
Why not? Where are you getting this info about God? Pretty sure it doesn't say shit in the bible about God changing his mind about the morality of stoning people for picking up sticks on the wrong day, and shit like that.

How do you decide what is worth taking seriously in the bible and what isn't? Just look at the horrible shit it promotes and go "You know what? This shit is stupid."? You know, use actual reasoning. If so, why not apply that reasoning to the religion as a whole? You should come up with the same conclusion.

Quote:
Moreover u totally ignored my Man's choices explanations. Man not only make choices that affect himself [Smoker that died from cancer - Bad, or chose not to smoke knowing it kills - good], but others as well [ Stopping for school kids to cross the road instead of running into them].

Why didn't God stop the oppression from the start? Simple, He can't. Not until the Jews made a choice to invite him to the party[done thru fervent prayers]. If He was so powerful, why didn't He force Pharaoh to let His people go? Simply, He can't. Why? He is sooooooo jealous. As long as he has become part matter, He wants all credits for the rescue and the egyptians to fear his awesome rescuing power and know that He is God [If he just forced him, Pharaoh would have taken the credit for letting God's people go whilst He[God] sits and watch].

If He was so powerful then again, why didn't he just FTG all Jews to a place He likes. Simple, He can't. Why? He had to work with the owner [Man, here Moses] as a medium to convey his intentions. Jealousy made Him not want to only take them out of Egypt but also take out 'egypt' from them. By the 10 plaques He was able concretise his power in the mnds of His people and paralyze the power of the Egyptian gods [which some of the Jews started to admonish]. This is just by the way.
So basically you're saying that god either isn't all powerful, or he is but he is also an attention whore, immature, immoral douchebag.

And you know how he could get tons of attention and all the credit? Just show himself and then rescue children getting raped and shit. So he's pretty fucking stupid too, in addition to being a massive asshole.
Quote:
The real issue is Until a choice is made to call on Him, He wont do anything. Every single intervention by God in the bible was made possible by Man to call him out.
Like ACT said, pretty sure people pray to not get raped and murdered a lot. And if that is the "real issue" then your god is a piece of shit. "Beg me to help you first, little girl getting raped. Mwahaha, you didn't pray hard enough, enjoy your needless suffering."



Real talk, dude. Sounds like you worship the most horrible and immoral being to ever be thought up. And you're not making yourself look like too much of a great guy yourself by trying to justify that shit.
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Old 08-08-2011, 03:51 AM   #109
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Re: Jesus, not the first

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gakure View Post
Victims, sorry to say are at the wrong place and at the wrong time [which is actually also due to their choices], but there is a way out. Just by the mention of the name Jesus, I personally have avoided many of such happenings. He is ready to [influence your choices and surroundings] if u allow him into ur heart.
Criminalizing the victim, nice scapegoat you got going on there. What about those who are fellow church goers, god fanatics, etc, arrive home only to find it fire bombed? IS it really their fault for not having had the omnipotent ability to look into the future and predict such an occurrence, therefore, moving out of their home beforehand? Now you're just sounding unreasonable here.

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Old 08-08-2011, 12:42 PM   #110
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Re: Jesus, not the first

I'm just going to focus on this one part:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gakure View Post
If He was so powerful, why didn't He force Pharaoh to let His people go? Simply, He can't.
Um...I believe he did force the Pharaoh to let the Jews go. Pretty sure he was the driving force behind the various plagues that ended with the death of his first born son, thus compelling him to release the Jewish slaves. Moses was just the messenger. Every step of the way, god was working through Moses to get the Pharaoh to see the light and release his "chosen" people.

In the beginning of Exodus he tried to kill Moses because Moses' son wasn't circumcised. So, according to you, he couldn't force Pharaoh to release the Jews from slavery (which he did), but he could almost kill his own prophet due to said prophet's son being uncircumcised. See how illogical that is? And that is just from 1 story.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:45 PM   #111
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Re: Jesus, not the first

Plus, pretty sure Exodus 4:21 states that God hardened the pharaoh's heart so he wouldn't let the jews go. Just so he could kill the first born sons and do all the plague shit first. You know, because he's a show off and didn't want the pharoah to puss out before He could kill innocent children.

What a dick.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:56 AM   #112
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Re: Jesus, not the first

Quote:
god doesn't alter anything on our world because he needs us to accept him and love him enough first.
Nope, I never said that. Re-read what I wrote abt Man's ability to make choices.

Quote:
he allows the times to change and humans to change their world and accepts those changes - almost like he evolves, but how could the all powerful uber being evolve?
Facepalm'd this one. How is a simple Consensus Evolution. Wow, did u actually read what I wrote. Let me quote it 4 ya.

Quote:
The dispensations are different. Just like how God allowed the Jews to marry more than one in the past ages, cannot be applied now. Another word is 'Dynamics'. God is the same but the dispensations are different. Hospitals, Ambulance sevices, the police, and many more business are open for work 24/7 when most of these guys are xtians. Dont they respect the Sabbath day, they shd be stoned to death, by ur logic. Simple answer, God respects the various dispensations and ages. Lets take the Jews for example. women are placed lower to men just as @ACT said, and God respected it as such. That cannot be said now. Old things, dont apply now.
Quote:
We need to call god out to do anything... except for the times that he doesn't, because I"m certain there are quite a few people who ask god not to allow them to be oppressed, robbed, raped, murdered, lose a loved one, win a championship, etc etc etc - does that come back to not loving him enough?
U are totally ignoring my point and changing the subject. IT IS ABOUT CHOICES. Oppressors, Robbers, Rapists etc all made their choice to carry out their ordeal, and I've already explained that Man's choices does not only affect himself, but others as well. Why is God suppose to be blamed for ur choices and not the choice maker.

Let me make this simple. [using this forum]. Why don't we[simply members] all take it out on Mibs[being the moderator] for KYF's retarded threads for sitting down and allowing KYF faggotory instead of banning him 4 life to stop his flapping? Simple, there are rules that apply, that Mibs is also bound to obey - which is, all members[including KYF] have the right to voice out their opinions which directly affects even non-members who just come around to read.

Just has Mibs has nothing to do with KYF's choice to post retarded theories and logic, so does God.

Quote:
In short, super powerful being who knows all, sees all, can do all, doesn't do shit. Why should I care if he is with me? I don't see that he has any impact on life.
Quote:
Why not? Where are you getting this info about God? Pretty sure it doesn't say shit in the bible about God changing his mind about the morality of stoning people for picking up sticks on the wrong day, and shit like that.

How do you decide what is worth taking seriously in the bible and what isn't? Just look at the horrible shit it promotes and go "You know what? This shit is stupid."? You know, use actual reasoning. If so, why not apply that reasoning to the religion as a whole? You should come up with the same conclusion.

So basically you're saying that god either isn't all powerful, or he is but he is also an attention whore, immature, immoral douchebag.

And you know how he could get tons of attention and all the credit? Just show himself and then rescue children getting raped and shit. So he's pretty fucking stupid too, in addition to being a massive asshole.

Like ACT said, pretty sure people pray to not get raped and murdered a lot. And if that is the "real issue" then your god is a piece of shit. "Beg me to help you first, little girl getting raped. Mwahaha, you didn't pray hard enough, enjoy your needless suffering."



Real talk, dude. Sounds like you worship the most horrible and immoral being to ever be thought up. And you're not making yourself look like too much of a great guy yourself by trying to justify that shit.
Read above

Quote:
Criminalizing the victim, nice scapegoat you got going on there. What about those who are fellow church goers, god fanatics, etc, arrive home only to find it fire bombed? IS it really their fault for not having had the omnipotent ability to look into the future and predict such an occurrence, therefore, moving out of their home beforehand? Now you're just sounding unreasonable here.
Ever heard of victims of circumstances? Why shd God be blamed for it.

It is so hard to explain anymore, my head is aching. Gosh, even mother nature's occurrences are now dubbed 'art of God'. The irony. God is blamed for every bad thing that happens [even those who don't believe He exists in the first place] but those same people forget to acknowledge Him when they get out unharmed from frequent storms, fires and accidents.


Quote:
Um...I believe he did force the Pharaoh to let the Jews go. Pretty sure he was the driving force behind the various plagues that ended with the death of his first born son, thus compelling him to release the Jewish slaves. Moses was just the messenger. Every step of the way, god was working through Moses to get the Pharaoh to see the light and release his "chosen" people.

In the beginning of Exodus he tried to kill Moses because Moses' son wasn't circumcised. So, according to you, he couldn't force Pharaoh to release the Jews from slavery (which he did), but he could almost kill his own prophet due to said prophet's son being uncircumcised. See how illogical that is? And that is just from 1 story.
Don't change the subject. Forced=/=Caused

Quote:
Plus, pretty sure Exodus 4:21 states that God hardened the pharaoh's heart so he wouldn't let the jews go. Just so he could kill the first born sons and do all the plague shit first. You know, because he's a show off and didn't want the pharoah to puss out before He could kill innocent children.
Check out the answer to @kael. And oh, that was just given by the way. Lets stick to the topic, shall we.


If u want proof, u can give Him a try urself. He never lets u down, I can vouch for Him.
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SALVATION PRAYER
O Lord God, I come to You in the Name of Jesus Christ. Your Word says, "...whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Acts 2:21). I ask Jesus to come into my heart to be the Lord of my life. I receive eternal life into my spirit and according to Romans 10:9, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved," I declare that I am saved; I am born-again; I am a child of God! I now have Christ dwelling in me, and greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world (1 John 4:4)! I now walk in the consciousness of my new life in Christ Jesus. Hallelujah!"

BEST DECISION EVER!!!

Jesus Loves You!!! He Always Has. He Always WIll
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Old 08-09-2011, 10:38 AM   #113
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Re: Jesus, not the first

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gakure View Post
U are totally ignoring my point and changing the subject. IT IS ABOUT CHOICES. Oppressors, Robbers, Rapists etc all made their choice to carry out their ordeal, and I've already explained that Man's choices does not only affect himself, but others as well. Why is God suppose to be blamed for ur choices and not the choice maker.
No one is diverting blame away the person committing the evil, they're saying God acts immorally because he doesn't save the victims. They're different things, both being bad. That's why this shit you're saying is being ignored, because it's irrelevant and isn't addressing what we're saying.

But it is about choices, sorta. Like God's choice to watch children be raped instead of helping them. That's a choice He makes. And that's what makes him an immoral asshole. Are you saying that a man watching a child be raped and doesn't help her, despite being fully capable of doing so, is perfectly moral and acceptable?

And don't even try to say it's about god wanting people to have free will. If a police officer stopping a child from being raped doesn't violate the concept of free will, then god doing the same thing wouldn't either. The concept of free will has nothing at all to do with this.

Quote:
Let me make this simple. [using this forum]. Why don't we[simply members] all take it out on Mibs[being the moderator] for KYF's retarded threads for sitting down and allowing KYF faggotory instead of banning him 4 life to stop his flapping? Simple, there are rules that apply, that Mibs is also bound to obey - which is, all members[including KYF] have the right to voice out their opinions which directly affects even non-members who just come around to read.

Just has Mibs has nothing to do with KYF's choice to post retarded theories and logic, so does God.
Okay, we can work with this analogy. Yes, I most certainly do allow KYF to post stupid shit. If anyone were to accuse me of that then I would not deny it. It's true, I do allow him to post stupid shit. I am to blame for that.

But I can easily justify my choice to do so. He's posting stupid shit on a narutard forum. That doesn't hurt anyone, so I really don't care. I normally value freedom over the extermination of extremely minor annoyances. Now, if KYF was raping children and I could stop him by banning him, then I'd definitely do that. Because I'm not an immoral scumbag like that thing you worship. See how that works?


Oh, and yeah, that is ironic that you would give God credit for good things happening, while saying He isn't responsible for any bad things happening. Doesn't work like that.

If he helps some people but not others then he's still an asshole. Since he can help everyone, he's an all powerful super deity. Why help a dude survive a car accident, but let a little girl be brutally raped and murdered? And don't think the good counter-acts the bad. It doesn't work that way. A serial killer doesn't suddenly become an okay guy because he also donated to charities and volunteered at homeless shelters in addition to murdering tons of people.
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:17 PM   #114
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Re: Jesus, not the first

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gakure View Post
Don't change the subject. Forced=/=Caused
Um...you were the one to say "forced":

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gakure View Post
. If He was so powerful, why didn't He force Pharaoh to let His people go? Simply, He can't.
See? The one changing the subject is you, since you can't come up with a logical response to my post. So, in case you were wondering, here it is again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kael03 View Post
Um...I believe he did force the Pharaoh to let the Jews go. Pretty sure he was the driving force behind the various plagues that ended with the death of his first born son, thus compelling him to release the Jewish slaves. Moses was just the messenger. Every step of the way, god was working through Moses to get the Pharaoh to see the light and release his "chosen" people.
And then the added bonus to your illogical stance:

Quote:
In the beginning of Exodus he tried to kill Moses because Moses' son wasn't circumcised. So, according to you, he couldn't force Pharaoh to release the Jews from slavery (which he did), but he could almost kill his own prophet due to said prophet's son being uncircumcised. See how illogical that is? And that is just from 1 story.
That was merely added to the idiocy of your claim that God didn't force Pharaoh to release the Jews. Oh, and then there's the fact that after Pharaoh released the Jews, God "inspired" him to call up his entire standing army and proceed to track Moses and co. down to re-enslave them during their journey through the desert, just to go back on said inspiration and cause the deaths of Pharaoh and his army via drowning, one of the worst ways to die. Your God is a fickle bitch.

Quote:
Check out the answer to @kael. And oh, that was just given by the way. Lets stick to the topic, shall we.
We are sticking on topic. You just can't respond logically or choose to ignore anything that contradicts your lolbeliefs.

Quote:
If u want proof, u can give Him a try urself. He never lets u down, I can vouch for Him.
With your track record, you vouching for him isn't helping his case.
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:55 PM   #115
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Re: Jesus, not the first

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Originally Posted by Hitomare Urufu View Post
@#4 Not really i just wanted to burn Obama.

@P.S. I may be a genius but I'm a very lazy genius. Kinda like Shikamaru but not as smart as him.
Wow you're a fucking idiot.
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FOOLS! Time is no obstacle for utter lunacy! Reality is but an illusion that can be ignored if the insane demand it!
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:06 PM   #116
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Re: Jesus, not the first

Btw, Gakure, if you are so proud of being a "born again" Christian, why do you always type "xtian"? It's almost like you're subconsciously ashamed of the "Christian" label or you're attempting to look "new age" and "cool" by using a shortened internet form.































































Or you could just be stupid.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:36 PM   #117
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Re: Jesus, not the first

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So let's take the most lax definition of it and say it's everyone that consider themselves Christians. That's 2 billion people out of the picture, and certainly a lot of us in the forum would lose many people dear to us, the upside is that the economy would receive an heck of an overhaul, we wouldn't need as much resources as we do (therefore things like fuel, food, clothes, among others, would be much cheaper), Christian abandoned wealth could be distributed to poorer countries, Christian estate could be given to poor and/or homeless people, science would progress much smoother without the Christian moral dogs, etc. So you guys getting raptured is pretty much the best thing ever to the rest of the world.
LMAO!!! Still reading the rest of this thread while working.
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1) There may well be some literary or map correlation between the Uzumaki and Ireland.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:45 PM   #118
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Re: Jesus, not the first

I'll help you out.

There is no god. What are you going to do now, punks? PRAY!?
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:38 PM   #119
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Re: Jesus, not the first

Merlin saying that to some nun as she looked up at him right before being beheaded in that camelot starz tv series was easily my favorite part in the entire thing.

Mostly because Aurthur was ridiculously unmanly, making the whole thing kinda suck.


Oh, spoilers.
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:46 PM   #120
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Re: Jesus, not the first

Nice. But probably going to watch it anyway while working or writing fic or something. If the wife likes it, anyway. If we both go WTF, we'll do something else.
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